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| snow | 76 | 08:29 |
|---|---|---|
| Tofe | in the good ol' days, it used to be 42 | 08:32 |
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| mornfall | anyone know if bluetooth smart (4.0, probably need BLE) supported now? | 11:14 |
| mornfall | (or are we screwed again because of the ancient kernel?) | 11:16 |
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| tbr | mornfall: kernel supports it on SbJ no problem. The userspace is missing, no Qt APIs etc. There is a 3rd party library 'libgato' though | 11:29 |
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| mornfall | tbr: there's Qt 5.5 on SFOS2 isn't there? | 11:50 |
| mornfall | and my phone has bluez 4.101 so that should be good enough too | 11:51 |
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| tbr | I'd be surprised if they got that far yet, in the past they've been notoriously slow on the uptake | 11:51 |
| mornfall | you are right, it's 5.2 ffs | 11:53 |
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| mornfall | (there's just one package with 5.5 on it, that got me confused) | 11:53 |
| mornfall | some mediaservice plugin | 11:53 |
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| tbr | you might be able to build the relevant 5.5 parts yourself, dunno | 11:54 |
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| mornfall | yeah, well, we still have unpatched glibc | 11:56 |
| M4rtinK | IIRC some multimedia stuff has been backported from newer Qt | 11:57 |
| mornfall | so I guess running Qt from 2013 is "fine" | 11:57 |
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| M4rtinK | well, we are basically running a Kernel from 2012 (3.4) | 11:59 |
| M4rtinK | so I guess it is a good fit :) | 11:59 |
| mornfall | that too :( | 12:00 |
| M4rtinK | also a lot of stuff is using the GPLv2 versions | 12:00 |
| M4rtinK | which are often quite outdated as the development is continuing under GPLv3 | 12:01 |
| M4rtinK | but still better than all the other options I'm afraid... | 12:01 |
| M4rtinK | but it could certainly be improved | 12:01 |
| mornfall | it's slowly becoming a losing proposition | 12:06 |
| * tbr waits for Android to switch to the Zephyr kernel, now that the linux foundation has a closed source friendly offering... | 12:09 | |
| mornfall | well, zephyr probably *is* a much better kernel than linux | 12:10 |
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| M4rtinK | tbr: well, they have been like this for quite a while | 12:32 |
| M4rtinK | tbr: at least since they endorsed Tizen | 12:33 |
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| phlixi_o | https://www.periscope.tv/w/1OyJAzNRrnbxb | 12:45 |
| Bysmyyr | should there be some sound, newer used periscope | 12:47 |
| phlixi_o | Bysmyyr: seems like you are not alone https://twitter.com/JollaUsers/status/701740510977855488 | 12:51 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | tbr, i'm disgusted from Linux Foundation | 13:13 |
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| M4rtinK | they did a lot of weird things recently | 13:20 |
| M4rtinK | like withdrawing funding to Software Freedom Conservancy & preventing individual contributors from being voted the their board | 13:21 |
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| M4rtinK | any idea if the Aquafish has the TOH interface ? :) | 14:11 |
| M4rtinK | would be probably too nice to be true :) | 14:11 |
| lainwir3d | :) | 14:11 |
| lainwir3d | what's its cpu / ram spec by the way ? | 14:11 |
| lainwir3d | better than Jolla 1 ? | 14:12 |
| cb400f | some quadcore thingy and 2 gigs of ram | 14:12 |
| lainwir3d | nice nice | 14:12 |
| cb400f | http://storiesio.com/intex-aqua-fish-smartphone-running-on-sailfish-os-demoed-at-mwc-2016-3244/ | 14:12 |
| cb400f | read the updated specs ;-) .. I was pretty shocked when I first skimmed it | 14:13 |
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| lainwir3d | :) | 14:15 |
| lainwir3d | hmmm seems sligthy bigger, so no color toh compat and tohkbd :P | 14:15 |
| lainwir3d | but well, fair enough | 14:15 |
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| cehteh | where will that be available? only india? some other developing countries? worldwide? | 14:17 |
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| cehteh | e device will be going to be available only in India initially starting from this spring. | 14:19 |
| cehteh | ..gotcha | 14:19 |
| Venemo | cb400f: what were you shocked about? | 14:26 |
| cb400f | the 1 gig of ram mostly... I haven't had problems personally, but I see a lot of people complaining about memory issues... luckily it was just misinformation | 14:28 |
| Venemo | 2 GB is not much better | 14:29 |
| Helle | my experience is that it's the Android apps that make it a memory issue | 14:29 |
| Helle | oh and gpodder has a memory leak remaining somewhere | 14:29 |
| Venemo | my experience is that sailfish os can not even keep two browser tabs in 1GB or RAM | 14:29 |
| Venemo | so... | 14:30 |
| Venemo | yeah, the more RAM the better | 14:30 |
| Helle | hrm, not my experience | 14:30 |
| Venemo | 1 GB was ridiculously low in 2013 but 2 GB is even more ridiculously low now | 14:30 |
| Helle | but that might be because I tend to browse pretty light websites and use adblocking on a proxy | 14:30 |
| cb400f | something is fishy about your experience.. I often have 6-7 tabs in the default browser, and never ever had an app closed down or anything | 14:30 |
| Hartzi | Venemo: why? SFOS != android | 14:30 |
| Helle | cb400f: yeah, I have 14 tabs open right now | 14:31 |
| Venemo | well | 14:31 |
| Helle | Hartzi: pretty much | 14:31 |
| Venemo | for me it always unloads tabs in the background | 14:31 |
| Venemo | and reloads them when I go back... forgetting my scroll position and any user input thus far | 14:31 |
| cb400f | that I have had happen from time to time.. but in the beginning that was the default behaviour anyway ;-) | 14:32 |
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| cb400f | iirc in 2013 the iPhoneys had 1 gig of ram too | 14:32 |
| Venemo | it is still the default now | 14:33 |
| Venemo | and then the phone dies if you browse picture-heavy sites | 14:34 |
| Helle | given that I read /r/diy nah | 14:34 |
| Venemo | OP2 has 4GB of RAM and it's crap from last year | 14:34 |
| Venemo | so this year you have no excuse for 2 GB | 14:34 |
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| Hartzi | well Intex aqua fish is low end phone | 14:35 |
| Venemo | yeah | 14:35 |
| Venemo | I know | 14:35 |
| Venemo | :( | 14:35 |
| M4rtinK | don't forget that for more than 4 GB you need 64 bit arm | 14:35 |
| M4rtinK | and the state of Mer/Sailfish on aarch64 is not very stellar so far, at least AFAIK | 14:36 |
| Venemo | how come? | 14:36 |
| Helle | M4rtinK: nope, there is the equivilent of PAE for ARM | 14:36 |
| Helle | which is supported | 14:36 |
| M4rtinK | well | 14:36 |
| Helle | also you can run 64 bit kernel, 32 bit userland | 14:36 |
| M4rtinK | bleh but OK | 14:36 |
| M4rtinK | bleh^2 | 14:36 |
| Venemo | anyway | 14:37 |
| Venemo | would be nice to see something aimed at the EU too | 14:37 |
| M4rtinK | did anybody actually ship an arm 32 bit device with PAE & >4GB RAM | 14:37 |
| M4rtinK | ? | 14:37 |
| Venemo | that is beside the point | 14:38 |
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| Hartzi | why would anyone ship a 32 bit cpu device with >4 gb ram? | 14:40 |
| Helle | Hartzi: Android ? | 14:40 |
| kjetilho | ARM and PAE? uh. | 14:41 |
| Helle | kjetilho: equivilent of PAE | 14:41 |
| Helle | forgot the name of it | 14:41 |
| kjetilho | if it is by ARM, it is probably good | 14:42 |
| Helle | kjetilho: well, ARM iirc now doesn't recommend using it and instead if necessary using 32 bit userland on 64 bit kernel | 14:42 |
| Helle | and using a 64bit CPU | 14:43 |
| Helle | it was more an interim thing | 14:43 |
| kjetilho | ok | 14:43 |
| Hartzi | well, why not ship a 64-bit cpu device if more than 4gb ram needed? | 14:43 |
| Helle | Hartzi: additional silicon costs, higher licensing fees, more expensive to get the same low power consumption | 14:44 |
| locusf | and redesign the hardware all over again? | 14:44 |
| locusf | wrt board | 14:44 |
| locusf | and aarch64 is pain for mer | 14:44 |
| Hartzi | Helle: okay, cots sound like a major reason | 14:45 |
| Hartzi | costs* | 14:45 |
| lainwir3d | locusf: why is it a pain ? | 14:45 |
| lainwir3d | big software incompatibility ? | 14:45 |
| locusf | y | 14:47 |
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| mornfall | eh, maybe it's time to look more closely at ubuntu touch | 15:00 |
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| M4rtinK | mornfall: let me know once it has multitasking ;-) | 15:03 |
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| Venemo | so | 15:11 |
| Venemo | why is aarch64 bad for mer? | 15:11 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK: well, multitasking on jolla could use some serious work too | 15:13 |
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| M4rtinK | mornfall: sure, but mostly due to memory consumption issues | 15:17 |
| Venemo | mornfall +1 | 15:17 |
| Venemo | and usability issues | 15:17 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: but it *is* possible, unlike on UT | 15:17 |
| M4rtinK | should work perfectly fine with more ram | 15:17 |
| M4rtinK | or once the memory issues are fixed (it worked quite a bit better before the Qt 5.2 rebase that turned to be very memory inefficient) | 15:18 |
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| pdanek | Aqua Fish! | 15:35 |
| pdanek | Nothing impressive actually. | 15:35 |
| pdanek | I expected 3GB ram | 15:35 |
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| pdanek | and sharks with lasers finally | 15:35 |
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| mornfall | M4rtinK: I tend to agree with Ubuntu that 'apps' are not a very good UX concept... | 15:38 |
| mornfall | and the multitasking you probably refer to is 'multiple apps' | 15:39 |
| mornfall | so I wouldn't be hung up on 'multitasking' as such | 15:43 |
| Lieke_ | what does ubuntu have instead of applications? | 15:45 |
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| mornfall | Lieke_: http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/features | 15:51 |
| Lieke_ | ah, i see | 15:55 |
| mornfall | it's like the N900 messages app taken to a logical conclusion | 15:56 |
| mornfall | SFOS has some of that | 15:56 |
| mornfall | you shouldn't need to multitask between 4 different IM apps | 15:56 |
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| mornfall | M4rtinK: btw. when did you last see ubuntu phone? because it seems to have a pretty decent task switcher | 16:04 |
| r0kk3rz | i imagine ubuntu touch is much like sailfishos, very much a moving target | 16:05 |
| mornfall | sadly, sailfish is moving more and more slowly | 16:06 |
| r0kk3rz | when you lose half your team, then yeah it cuts productivity a bit | 16:06 |
| r0kk3rz | loads of lost knowledge | 16:06 |
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| M4rtinK | mornfall: AFAIK the lack of multitasking still stands, not sure about other developments | 16:11 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: two example usecases currently broken due to lack of multitasking: | 16:12 |
| mornfall | cut and paste is my fav :P | 16:12 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: 1) turn by turn navigation/track recording - recording/navigation stops unless you keep the navigation app in foreground at all times | 16:12 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: 2) music playback - music playback stops unless you keep the app in foreground at all times | 16:13 |
| M4rtinK | there are some sound playback APIs that try to paper this over | 16:13 |
| M4rtinK | but AFAIK they don't cover stuff like music streaming for example... | 16:13 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: actually copy & paste should not be directly affected - IIRC it does no kill the apps, just pauses them | 16:14 |
| mornfall | yes, I was being sacrastic (since cut and paste is broken on SFOS) | 16:15 |
| mornfall | sarcastic* | 16:15 |
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| mornfall | can't really comment on ubuntu other than what I have seen online | 16:16 |
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| Elleo | M4rtinK: the media-hub stuff supports normal streaming stuff, it just doesn't support proprietary things like spotify at the moment | 16:17 |
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| Elleo | M4rtinK: also you can disable the app suspending for any apps you want to run permanently via tweakgeek (not an ideal solution for end users, but handy for power users) | 16:18 |
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| mornfall | having a per-app switch seems to be a lot better option than what sfos gives you (everything running all the time) | 16:19 |
| mornfall | but yeah, tricky end-user-wise, I guess | 16:19 |
| Elleo | the ultimate aim is to expand the background services to handle all common cases | 16:19 |
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| Elleo | so if you want to play music you hand a playlist off to media-hub, or downloads off to download manager and they continue while your app is suspended, which both already work, but there's no similar service for navigation stuff yet | 16:20 |
| Elleo | it helps to ensure the battery life is always reliably good | 16:21 |
| Elleo | as you don't have lots of badly written apps constantly causing wakeups for no good reason | 16:21 |
| M4rtinK | Elleo: I don't think this can ever cover all the cases | 16:22 |
| M4rtinK | Elleo: or even the major ones | 16:22 |
| mornfall | M4rtinK: the 'allow running in background' per-app switch definitely can | 16:22 |
| M4rtinK | there is just too much things apps might want to do in the background | 16:22 |
| mornfall | notice that you get the same on SFOS for android apps | 16:23 |
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| mornfall | sure, it's a compromise | 16:23 |
| M4rtinK | unless the switch is there by default | 16:23 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: with the convergence stuff ive seen, if thats not full multitasking then i dont know what is | 16:23 |
| M4rtinK | its like it was not there at all | 16:23 |
| mornfall | anyway, the two things I'd miss is a) aliendalvik and b) tohkbd | 16:24 |
| mornfall | however, given how one of my tohkbd's does not work at all and the other still has issues with one of the letters... | 16:24 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: has it been confirmed it really multitasks in the convergence mode ? | 16:24 |
| Elleo | r0kk3rz: yeah, in desktop mode background processing will be allowed for all apps, since that's pretty much expected in desktop use cases | 16:24 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: also I guess multitasking in convergence mode might not necessarily mean multitasking in "phone" mode | 16:25 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: there might be triggers, but ive seen someone use a BT mouse with just the phone | 16:25 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: something seems to happen to its service - I also have to start it again from time to time | 16:25 |
| r0kk3rz | and use it like a windowed system | 16:26 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: ten it works fine but apparently stops some time later | 16:26 |
| r0kk3rz | whether thats super secret bleeding edge dev stuff im not sure | 16:26 |
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| Elleo | yeah, my tohkbd never worked correctly :/ | 16:26 |
| Elleo | some of the keys required you to press the back plate simulataneously to get them to register | 16:26 |
| M4rtinK | mornfall: I plan to investigate the service restart support systemd has, that should be able to solve it | 16:27 |
| M4rtinK | Elleo: I had the issue with a few keys, that it basically vanished with use | 16:27 |
| Elleo | M4rtinK: yeah, it never went away with mine | 16:28 |
| IZh | M4rtinK: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.service.html#Restart= | 16:29 |
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| M4rtinK | Elleo: yeah, it can quite possibly quite vary between individual keyboards | 16:33 |
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| M4rtinK | it is certainly not easy to do a custom keybord with such a small production run & with limited manufacturing machinery available | 16:34 |
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| r0kk3rz | well, they were largely hand built | 16:55 |
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| M4rtinK | yeah - in any case HUGE thanks yet again to everyone involved in the ToHKBD project! :) | 17:06 |
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| pdanek | What do you guys fancy more, Intex Aqua Fish or Turing Phone? | 20:07 |
| tadzik | I like things that exist :) | 20:08 |
| the_mgt | pricewise the aquafish, or a turing phone with better design | 20:08 |
| the_mgt | why is this the only proper source of information so far: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=96465&page=3 | 20:09 |
| M4rtinK | TMO FTW :) | 20:09 |
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| pdanek | New partnerships in 2 days? | 20:15 |
| pdanek | HYPE? | 20:15 |
| r0kk3rz | you would hope so | 20:19 |
| r0kk3rz | given how long it has taken the intex partnership to come to fruition | 20:19 |
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| Yaniel | hehe | 20:23 |
| Yaniel | partner ships | 20:23 |
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| Sidde | yay, Aqua Fish. I really hope it's not that really complicated to buy in europe | 20:28 |
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| sjtoik | i'm assuming toh's don't work | 20:33 |
| HtheB | why cant someone ask them to open up the cover to see the inside ? | 20:33 |
| HtheB | O_o!? | 20:34 |
| r0kk3rz | HtheB: its a different shape for starters | 20:34 |
| r0kk3rz | and ive heard nothing about any i2c pins... | 20:35 |
| sjtoik | do you have any link? | 20:35 |
| HtheB | r0kk3rz: doesn't matter | 20:35 |
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| HtheB | just want to see what is under the cover | 20:35 |
| HtheB | there are many pics already of the front and back of the phone | 20:36 |
| HtheB | what about under the cover? = | 20:36 |
| HtheB | :D | 20:36 |
| r0kk3rz | yep, full teardown kthx | 20:36 |
| HtheB | lol | 20:36 |
| HtheB | haha | 20:36 |
| r0kk3rz | + bill of materials | 20:36 |
| HtheB | you know what i mean | 20:36 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah i know, could be interesting | 20:36 |
| HtheB | I've never even seen a teardown of a Jolla... :( | 20:36 |
| r0kk3rz | i do follow the ifixit teardowns and such though | 20:37 |
| HtheB | they have only some basic teardown of the Jolla | 20:38 |
| HtheB | and no video | 20:38 |
| sjtoik | i wouldn't be supprised if the base is the same, but a bit upgraded one | 20:39 |
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| r0kk3rz | sjtoik: i dunno, i think the similarities with the jphone are purely cosmetic | 20:40 |
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| sjtoik | well, if it's not going to available anywhere else... | 20:41 |
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| HtheB | I'm more interested in the Turing phone | 20:46 |
| HtheB | even if it doesn't have headphone jack :( | 20:46 |
| r0kk3rz | i think it'll be nice to have a choice | 20:48 |
| HtheB | of course | 20:48 |
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| sakustar | HtheB: what is it? | 23:12 |
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| HtheB | sakustar: what is what? Turing Phone? | 23:38 |
| HtheB | www.turingphone.com | 23:38 |
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