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| Pawky | Something strange is going on when people reuse an earlier sent multiple reciever SMS. if you reply to that person, you will reply to ALL the ones whilst tinking you only reply to one person. :-( | 09:05 |
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| Pawky | I have now created a SMS storm, I send one message to the one using some earlier multi SMS to reply... another on that list replies "wrong person", i send back "i noticed", then another replies to that one, and so one... | 09:08 |
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| Coolgeek | yup, happened to me thios weekend | 09:12 |
| Coolgeek | when someone text me AND she was in a previous multisend, it is stored on this multisend | 09:13 |
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| Coolgeek | so, when you reply it is sent to all of this multisend | 09:13 |
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| Tegu | yea, I've heard the group SMS is confusing. haven't really used it myself | 09:15 |
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| Pawky | Something strange is going on when people so, we all agree upon its a bug not a feature, right? :-) | 09:26 |
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| Coolgeek | yup, it's a bug | 09:27 |
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| Pawky | lets hope jolla will be floating long enough to fix it.... :-/ | 09:30 |
| chriadam|windows | is there a TJC report about it? if not, can someone make one and I'll make sure it gets linked to the appropriate developer | 09:30 |
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| Coolgeek | https://together.jolla.com/question/7973/sms-sending-to-multiple-recipients-problems-with-delivery-reports-and-received-replies/ / https://together.jolla.com/question/119892/bugsms-distribution-groups/ | 09:39 |
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| Nicd- | the group SMS has been broken from the start | 09:40 |
| Coolgeek | https://together.jolla.com/question/30433/replying-to-a-reply-of-a-multiple-recipients-sms-can-cause-huge-embarrassment/ | 09:40 |
| Nicd- | personally if I send to multiple people, I then delete the group SMS | 09:41 |
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| Nicd- | then if I reply to one person it won't send it to everyone else too | 09:41 |
| Coolgeek | did that, but was after I send a reply to everyone :( | 09:42 |
| Nicd- | "Will hopefully tackle in October-ish release, too late for this one." hahahahah | 09:42 |
| Nicd- | that was in 2014 | 09:42 |
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| Coolgeek | seems it was fixed but was back with sfos2.0 | 09:42 |
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| tortoisedoc | houhou | 10:01 |
| tortoisedoc | so jolla has decided to sell tablets in india? | 10:01 |
| Stskeeps | i doubt it? | 10:02 |
| Acce | based on? | 10:02 |
| Stskeeps | jolla can be stupid but not that stupid | 10:02 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:02 |
| Nicd- | there's some place that has listed them for sale in the future | 10:02 |
| Nicd- | http://www.91mobiles.com/jolla-tablet-price-in-india | 10:03 |
| Nicd- | "Release Date: Jun 15, 2016(Official)" | 10:03 |
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| Stskeeps | chances are that if jolla was releasing anything it'd be through snapdeal etc anyway | 10:04 |
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| Yaniel^ | Jolla sure is a multicultural business: designed in Finland, manufactured in China and sold in India | 10:08 |
| tortoisedoc | well | 10:08 |
| tortoisedoc | time will tell | 10:08 |
| * tortoisedoc still dreams of a new tablet | 10:09 | |
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| * rigo too | 10:12 | |
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| Nicd- | personally I'm not too hopeful | 10:16 |
| tortoisedoc | yeah well | 10:17 |
| tortoisedoc | lets talk about the intex phone :) | 10:17 |
| tortoisedoc | better look forward than backwards | 10:17 |
| Nicd- | they've lost a huge amount of staff (almost everyone that people know by name for example), the tablet project is going badly and most people are not going to get their tablets, phone doesn't really sell… | 10:18 |
| Nicd- | I think the Intex phone is their last hope | 10:19 |
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| tortoisedoc | then again its the only way forward | 10:20 |
| tortoisedoc | at least there is a way | 10:20 |
| lainwir3d | wait, doesn't everybody got their tablet ? D-: | 10:20 |
| lainwir3d | ... i'm sorry. | 10:20 |
| corvinux | no Twitter today, huh | 10:21 |
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| Acce | I guess we have already speculated everything worth speculating about the Intex phone | 10:23 |
| Acce | and no new information has been promised until MWC | 10:23 |
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| Nicd- | meanwhile, here's something fun to keep you occupied: http://ircstats.nytsoi.net/jollamobile.html | 10:28 |
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| lainwir3d | "These people wrote less than 2700 lines:" | 10:30 |
| lainwir3d | damn, I have to do better than that | 10:30 |
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| tbr | crap, I'm still in the top10 | 10:31 |
| Nicd- | tbr: with the current activity levels you will never leave the top 10 | 10:31 |
| Acce | Nicd-: nice | 10:31 |
| Acce | the long term activity level graph is bit sad though | 10:32 |
| stephg | checkout ggabriel and he's rarely around these days | 10:32 |
| Acce | if things were better, that should have an upward trend | 10:32 |
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| tortoisedoc | who's ggabriel | 10:34 |
| pp | heh | 10:34 |
| pp | I'm pretty unsure whether I even want the tablet now :P | 10:34 |
| pp | I'm probably in the next 200 to get it so I probably will if anyone does | 10:34 |
| * tbr is probably in the next 20 or so and also not sure if he wants it | 10:35 | |
| Jope | I no longer use my jolla .. I wonder why I'm still here | 10:36 |
| Jope | morbid curiosity or something | 10:36 |
| narchi4 | vat | 10:36 |
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| Acce | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eax5W27Izx4 | 10:45 |
| tortoisedoc | a friend of mine got his | 10:45 |
| tortoisedoc | and he's pretty happy with it tho | 10:45 |
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| Nicd- | Acce: or maybe this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEPfSWk0Lsw | 10:46 |
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| tortoisedoc | rather this one (talking about the tablet ) https://stash.f-secure.com/projects/MACLINUX/repos/fsigk/pull-requests/240/overview | 11:06 |
| tortoisedoc | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn58-Nl9NYw | 11:06 |
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| the_mgt | tortoisedoc: stash.f-secure.com doesnt reslove here | 11:09 |
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| the_mgt | tortoisedoc: stash.f-secure.com doesnt resolve here | 11:09 |
| tortoisedoc | mistake | 11:10 |
| tortoisedoc | ignore | 11:10 |
| the_mgt | done | 11:10 |
| tortoisedoc | thanks | 11:10 |
| tortoisedoc | or this one | 11:11 |
| tortoisedoc | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn7y5ShTWWU | 11:11 |
| tortoisedoc | carry on sounds like a more plausible message :D | 11:11 |
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| mornfall | Nicd-: looks almost like all the other IRC channels :P | 11:19 |
| Nicd- | what looks? | 11:20 |
| mornfall | the statistics | 11:21 |
| Nicd- | what part? | 11:22 |
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| mornfall | nevermind | 11:23 |
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| chem|st | deztructor: if you don't mind sharing complete usage example of vault might be useful to some people | 11:28 |
| chem|st | CLI that is | 11:28 |
| Nicd- | isn't the vault just a git repo? | 11:29 |
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| tortoisedoc | which vault? | 11:31 |
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| chem|st | tortoisedoc: the program | 11:57 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: it is software | 11:57 |
| Nicd- | some other vault than the .vault in sailfish os then? or an interface to it? | 11:58 |
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| chem|st | Nicd-: vault is the backup program | 11:58 |
| chem|st | .vault is the used backup folder | 11:59 |
| chem|st | I tried around yesterday doing backups to the uSD, it seems to be not as straight fwd as I expected | 12:00 |
| Nicd- | ah, ok | 12:00 |
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| chem|st | the way it is set up it is very annoying, such tools should have simple configs specifying everything so you may just do an vault -a export -H ~home -d $target-folder | 12:03 |
| chem|st | but instead you have to specify everything | 12:03 |
| chem|st | and either I do not find the documentation or there is none | 12:03 |
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| chem|st | the readme in git seems to be outdated and the example folder does not have much | 12:04 |
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| Jeena | Quick question, I have a friend who bought a jolla tablet but then Jolla wasn't able to ship it, even though he payed for it and everything. I'd like to buy a Jolla phone but I fear a bit that it perhaps can't be shipped either, where could I find some more information about that? | 12:30 |
| phlixi_o | Jeena: the short version: BUYING a phone is no problem | 12:31 |
| taaem | Jeena: tablet was crowdfunding there shouldn't be any problems with afaik | 12:31 |
| phlixi_o | but no one was able to BUY a tablet | 12:31 |
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| phlixi_o | however, the crowdfunding money might be lost | 12:32 |
| Jeena | ah, so it was a tablet specific problem? | 12:32 |
| phlixi_o | but that was not "buying" | 12:32 |
| phlixi_o | it is :-) | 12:32 |
| Jeena | I see | 12:32 |
| phlixi_o | there was a very short period where some could actually order the tablet via store, thats a case where you should have no problem to get your money back | 12:33 |
| phlixi_o | other then that, crowdfunding is risky :) | 12:33 |
| eugenio | yup, preordered at the shop in september and got my refund yesterday :) | 12:34 |
| mornfall | now that's a sign of life | 12:35 |
| Jeena | I tried the tablet out at Qt World Summit last october, it was quite cool and slick | 12:35 |
| phlixi_o | tablet story, sad story... | 12:35 |
| Jeena | they also gave away two of them, sadly I didn't get one ;) | 12:36 |
| Jeena | I'm running Sailfish OS on my Nexus 5 with dualboot but that way I can't use android apps so that I need to switch to android often for some of the apps I need, like Bank ID | 12:36 |
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| rigo | I still think they should switch the hardware supplier and make a real tablet as now they have SailfishOS 2.0 (which was the reason for the cost of the tablet) | 12:42 |
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| Stskeeps | rigo: think any kind of hw investment at the moment is quite unlikely, it'd be a big investment.. hw adaptation also costs :/ | 12:48 |
| chem|st | rigo: the tablet is very real and nice too | 12:48 |
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| chem|st | lets hope they get financials sorted and release the tablet as is | 12:48 |
| chem|st | Jeena: in terms of security, using banking apps on android is probably the worst usage need you can come up with | 12:50 |
| rigo | chem|st: as far as I have understood the information that went public, the asian hardware factory pouted on some late payment | 12:50 |
| rigo | very hard to recover from such an action. This is lost trust. That's why... | 12:50 |
| Pawky | eugenio: how did you get the refund??? | 12:51 |
| chem|st | well, you can always prepay | 12:51 |
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| eugenio | asked on zendesk :) | 12:51 |
| chem|st | Pawky: preorders usually just get refunds | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | preorders are simple, IGG = mess | 12:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:52 |
| SQUelcher | Jeena: if he bought his tablet/phone in the official store (not the campaign), he is safe as long he paid by paypal | 12:52 |
| Pawky | chem|st: and all teh talk about "surprises"? | 12:52 |
| rigo | chem|st: than the risk goes the other way around and prepaid things are too distant from the investment | 12:52 |
| chem|st | Pawky: that is IGG not preorders | 12:52 |
| rigo | into hardware to make it industrially viable | 12:52 |
| Pawky | chem|st: IGG ? | 12:52 |
| chem|st | Pawky: kickstarter indiegogo | 12:52 |
| rigo | chem|st: and it is also too much investment for a software company. | 12:53 |
| Pawky | oh.. uh.. so IGG people like me = no refund? | 12:53 |
| chem|st | rigo: it was like 10k devices, that is 2 batches in my world | 12:53 |
| rigo | I asked some nokia people I know where all the nice hardware people are gone. Perhaps some of the old chaps in Finland are able to help. They have truely amazing connections | 12:53 |
| chem|st | Pawky: that is not said, but if you ask for a refund, you will neither get a tablet nor a surprise | 12:54 |
| Pawky | chem|st: well, maybe the surprise will be I will not get a refund.... :-/ | 12:54 |
| rigo | chem|st: IMHO they have miscalculated their own market position (grossly) by betting on the cheap end | 12:54 |
| chem|st | Pawky: I would think more of a discount voucher for intex or fairphone | 12:55 |
| rigo | the N9 was successful despite being more expensive than an iPhone | 12:55 |
| Pawky | i am not asking for any refund yet thoug. Jolla being very silent for a few weeks makes me weary about its future though... | 12:55 |
| chem|st | rigo: N9 was 300eur cheaper than an iphone | 12:55 |
| rigo | not mine | 12:55 |
| phlixi_o | Pawky: iirc last meeting they said somethig to come in jan | 12:55 |
| rigo | only at the end | 12:55 |
| phlixi_o | chem|st nah | 12:56 |
| chem|st | phlixi_o: nah what? | 12:56 |
| phlixi_o | when released the n9 was more expensive than the then current iphone | 12:56 |
| rigo | oh, I have to stop posting here to avoid getting into Nicd's statistics | 12:56 |
| phlixi_o | not much, something like 550 iphone, 600 n9 | 12:56 |
| Tegu | rigo: change nick then | 12:57 |
| Pawky | is fairphone using Sailfish? | 12:57 |
| rigo | Tegu: never! | 12:57 |
| Tegu | haha | 12:57 |
| narchi4 | where is jolla tablet vat payment | 12:57 |
| chem|st | phlixi_o: in Germany n9 oversold lumia and wasn't even distributed in Germany officially, iphones market introduction in Germany was always above 600eur | 12:58 |
| phlixi_o | if not all non official build wouldnt have the problem of not having andoird apps :( | 12:58 |
| chem|st | phlixi_o: I am actually glad they don't have android | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | Pawky: https://twitter.com/Fairphone/status/689100367246815236 | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | and https://www.instagram.com/p/BAr0bf8ClER/ | 12:59 |
| chem|st | I hope that at some point more SFOS devices do not have android than devices have android | 12:59 |
| phlixi_o | yeah, but in thze realworld i need stuff like thrrema apk (and other need similar stuff) | 13:00 |
| phlixi_o | because you can not force your peers to not use certain stuff | 13:00 |
| Pawky | Stskeeps: will the Sailfish in fairphone be able to run android apps? | 13:01 |
| phlixi_o | Pawky: that would be a big surprise, i dont think so | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | Pawky: i think you'd have to ask fairphone :) | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | but if you're wondering if it's technically possible, it is | 13:01 |
| Pawky | phlixi_o: if not its o better phone than any other to put Sailfish on.. | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | i have alien dalvik on nexus 5 as an example, but as it's a 3rd party commercial product other factors come in | 13:02 |
| Pawky | Stskeeps: the alien android packaging license is owned by Jolla to my knowledge | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it usually comes with a commercial sailfishos license | 13:02 |
| Pawky | Stskeeps: where did you get it? :-) | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | Pawky: ugh, well, i stole it naturally, while other sailors were drunk.. | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:02 |
| Pawky | Stskeeps: any instructions on how to do so? :-) | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | Pawky: no, but anyway, it was my job to handle some of this work, so i know the stuff works | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:03 |
| Pawky | Stskeeps: that I know, it was more about shipment. | 13:04 |
| chem|st | phlixi_o: just looked it up, N9 was 550-600eur, iphone started at 629eur (in Germany) | 13:04 |
| Pawky | The strength of Sailfish is to also be compatible (in some sense) with Android. | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | Pawky: maybe more interestingly | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | how much would you pay for alien dalvik on fairphone 2, or nexus 5, one plus one, etc | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 13:05 |
| chem|st | phlixi_o: as there are 8 months in between releases... sure at the exact time it was more expensive | 13:05 |
| Pawky | Stskeeps: well... probably about what I paid for the none existin tablet... | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | Pawky: well, the tablet exists, you just haven't gotten your perk | 13:06 |
| Pawky | better to get something than nothing :-D | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | just to be correct | 13:06 |
| phlixi_o | chem|st: the point was, it was not like 200 or 300 | 13:06 |
| Pawky | Stskeeps: I heard we might not get them in the end... hence the "suprise" statement in some blog... | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | Pawky: as in, it obviously exists since people have gotten it and it's not vaporware, so the project succeeded, just never reached a sane volume to actually deliver to all backers :/ | 13:07 |
| rigo | chem|st: yes, and people where looking for an N9 replacement or an alternative to S6 and iPhone. And they got the jollaphone that was cheap and good as a first step. I still think that jolla can sell for more money. Perhaps not the actual jolla#1 hardware, but a nice one certainly | 13:08 |
| chem|st | phlixi_o: you could not buy the phone for 629eur at first... you needed a tcom contract that made you pay like 800eur for iphones up till iP4S | 13:08 |
| chem|st | rigo: sure, give me an N900 fork with SFOS on it and I am happy to pay 600eur | 13:09 |
| Pawky | chem|st: N900 is a bit old hardware by now dont you think? :-) | 13:10 |
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| chem|st | Pawky: design wise, not hardware state of 2009 *FP* | 13:10 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | well, it is one big sorry mess | 13:11 |
| Jeena | SQUelcher, he said he knew it was risky but he still wanted to support them | 13:11 |
| Pawky | What is Jollas core business?.. I mean, if the OS upgrades are for free, then they should really try to sell loads of hardware.. | 13:12 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | people in countries that didn't have the Jolla phone (such as Copernicus of Pierogi fame in the US) are yet again left out | 13:12 |
| Pawky | if its software, then why did they not charge for th 2.0 upgrade... (theoretically) | 13:12 |
| chem|st | SQUelcher: oh just read that "as long as he paid by paypal" wtf? | 13:12 |
| Pawky | only one phone since its start, I cannot see its a hardware company... | 13:13 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | devels couting on the tablet wit apps are as well (Twablet, Mieru,...) | 13:13 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | not to mention the few people who got them - who is going to support that with apps ? | 13:13 |
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| Pawky | Jeena: I agree, thats why i bought the tablet.. then again i didn't buy it to sponsor the development department only... | 13:14 |
| chem|st | Pawky: that is why intex is up next | 13:14 |
| Pawky | chem|st: but thats not a Jolla design, right? | 13:14 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | not to mention all theeffort dumped to 2.0 due to the tablet | 13:14 |
| chem|st | Pawky: it is not like they did not try to get you your tablet... | 13:14 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | and all the unpopular UI changes that make even less sense now | 13:14 |
| chem|st | Pawky: captain obvious? | 13:14 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | so - mess... | 13:15 |
| Pawky | chem|st: well.. it's like they the software department yet again swallowed most of the money.. | 13:15 |
| chem|st | M4rtinK_phone_: that is a false statement | 13:15 |
| chem|st | the first one | 13:15 |
| chem|st | M4rtinK_phone_: the main goal behind 2.0 UI was probably to make it size independent and to upgrade lots of things | 13:16 |
| Pawky | I have no problem with the UI change. I think its OK | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, scalability was a big thing in 2.0 | 13:16 |
| chem|st | Pawky: introducing buttons... worst idea ever | 13:16 |
| Pawky | chem|st: buttons? | 13:17 |
| eugenio | I don't mind the cover buttons TBH | 13:17 |
| chem|st | Pawky: cover-actions are buttons | 13:17 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | well, the dual swipe shortcuts were certainly a victim of that | 13:17 |
| chem|st | eugenio: I do neither, since they are introduced I stoppe using coveractions | 13:18 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | so now we have two ways to move the carousel on a phone | 13:18 |
| eugenio | they are annoying with more than 4 apps open, I agree there | 13:18 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | and tiny buttons insted of cover swipes... | 13:18 |
| chem|st | M4rtinK_phone_: everything is duplicated | 13:18 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | not to mention offcial apps regressing to single actio | 13:18 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | n | 13:18 |
| eugenio | thankfully the Media application retained the two actions | 13:19 |
| chem|st | eugenio: as it is a multitaksing OS I have usually 5+ apps open | 13:19 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | yeah, changing that would really suck | 13:19 |
| eugenio | chem|st, me too. Fortunately it can be patched to force the large covers | 13:20 |
| chem|st | eugenio: I do not want large covers, I want the same behaviour as the N9, if they want to revert back to N9 style at least do it properly! | 13:21 |
| eugenio | the only thing that it's really missing in stock 2.0 to me is the swipe-to-lock, but I can see why they removed it | 13:21 |
| eugenio | chem|st, fair enough | 13:21 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | never used that | 13:21 |
| chem|st | that zooming on home-screen is dope | 13:21 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | I use the power button for that | 13:22 |
| chem|st | eugenio: you can actually learn swipe-lock-tap | 13:22 |
| chem|st | eugenio: at least I kind of muscle memory it by now | 13:22 |
| eugenio | or patch the homescreen :) | 13:22 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | personally I would like to have even screen from bottom, as before | 13:22 |
| chem|st | it would be easier to have separate distances to pull for ambiences and lock but well, that is stuff that is yet to come, we have no UI changes yet and I don't expect any before 2.0.5+ | 13:23 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | don't really like the launcher that often due to long running apps | 13:23 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | *use the launcher | 13:24 |
| chem|st | M4rtinK_phone_: yeah, on a multitaksing OS, a launcher does not need to be on the hotseat | 13:24 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | also | 13:24 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | it should be finally possible to go back to last app on unlock | 13:25 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | no idea why we still have the broken unlock-to-task-switcher way | 13:26 |
| chem|st | some study they did in helsinki showed that the 2.0UI is better understood by android/iOS users than 1.0 so well lets work with it and improve from there | 13:26 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | I dont think any other OS does this | 13:26 |
| chem|st | M4rtinK_phone_: and that request is VERY VERY much subjective and a minority request | 13:26 |
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| M4rtinK_phone_ | ? | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | chem|st: it's not just 'some study', the feedback was totally different with 2.0 in MWC than with 1.0 | 13:27 |
| chem|st | what I'd like to have is a tunable timer for returning to last app | 13:27 |
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| M4rtinK_phone_ | chem|st: yeah, that could be handy | 13:28 |
| Smar | or a setting whether last app or the switcher should be opened? :) | 13:28 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: you are lieing in your own pocket (we say in German), reporters using 1.0 on MWC have never seen that kind of UI control, all for a sudden on 2.0UI MWC all the reporters knew initially how to navigate | 13:29 |
| chem|st | surprise surprise | 13:29 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | I am indeed less likely to want the same app after 24 hours than after 3 minutes | 13:29 |
| Pawky | Its a bit sad no one has ported droidwall to sailfish, it would be nice with a gui firewall, that also goes for Xprivacy | 13:29 |
| chem|st | M4rtinK_phone_: yeah I probably would have a 5minute timer | 13:30 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | but the current behavior really sucks in many cases | 13:30 |
| chem|st | well, the timer is too short | 13:30 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | like taking photos on an event | 13:30 |
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| M4rtinK_phone_ | you need to get back to the fricking app all the time | 13:30 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | same thing when navigating | 13:31 |
| chem|st | that is also stuff that should probably be an per-app setting, camera I'd like to always return to when it was last used app | 13:31 |
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| M4rtinK_phone_ | you dont need to look at it all the time | 13:31 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | but when you do, you need to needlessly bring it back | 13:32 |
| chem|st | as said, per app setting | 13:32 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | seriously, no other platform does this | 13:32 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | whatever | 13:32 |
| chem|st | and seriously it was very annoying on N9 | 13:32 |
| Smar | in other platforms, it’s incredibly hard to open the last app after opening the phone again :P | 13:32 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | I would just set it to always return anyway :) | 13:33 |
| chem|st | Smar: thank you | 13:33 |
| chem|st | M4rtinK_phone_: and that is a minority request | 13:33 |
| chem|st | loud minority but still a minority | 13:33 |
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| M4rtinK_phone_ | something thats defauld on every other platform is a minority request ? | 13:34 |
| chem|st | there are way better solutions than to always return to last used | 13:34 |
| chem|st | M4rtinK_phone_: it is one of the oldest requests and last itme I checked it was below 100votes, that is a minority | 13:34 |
| chem|st | iirc | 13:34 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | https://together.jolla.com/question/37176/return-to-last-active-app-from-lock-screen/ | 13:35 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | 102 | 13:35 |
| chem|st | yeah... 102 is a minority | 13:35 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | yeah, sure, sure | 13:36 |
| chem|st | and to be honest it is always the same 10 people chatting about it | 13:36 |
| chem|st | and with N9 there was a strng desire to fix that behaviour and it was really annoying to people, just the other way round | 13:37 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | it certainly looks like the 604 votes for sip and 675 for consistent clipboard support arealso a minority :) | 13:37 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | given the lack of action | 13:37 |
| Smar | go implement the features yourself? :D | 13:38 |
| chem|st | given the lack of action anything but bugs are a minority | 13:38 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | I guess we can say Jolla users are a minority, so why bother with anything ? ;) | 13:38 |
| chem|st | Smar: frontend glue cannot be done as it isn't foss'ed | 13:38 |
| chem|st | M4rtinK_phone_: lol | 13:39 |
| Smar | well, monkey patch them then | 13:39 |
| Smar | it’s often doable at least | 13:39 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | Smar: um, closed source crap in the way ? ;) | 13:39 |
| Smar | or join the bothering force until they open those parts? x) | 13:39 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | (well, maybe not directly in this case actually) | 13:40 |
| chem|st | Smar: you have to replace Phone, People to get SIP working, and probably fix up accounts in some way too | 13:40 |
| Smar | chem|st: well, I was more of referring to last-app feature, I don’t know anything about that sip problem | 13:41 |
| chem|st | Smar: the 300+ votes things that are 2 years old are all there because of closed blobbs I guess, everything else got patches | 13:41 |
| Smar | yes, of course :) | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | meanwhile; https://together.jolla.com/question/126892/release-notes-201taalojarvi-early-access/ | 13:41 |
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| chem|st | Smar: and that is closed as well iirc you cannot even tune the timer | 13:41 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: HAIL SLATEN | 13:41 |
| Tegu | o_O I kinda thought that there might not be another update anymore | 13:42 |
| Tegu | glad I was wrong (okay, it's still early access but anyway) | 13:42 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | interesting :) | 13:42 |
| chem|st | Tegu: it is not real! | 13:42 |
| Nicd- | whhoooaaa new release, I thought this would never happen | 13:42 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: I am just waiting for the folks asking when the next upgrade will be... give them 7 days... | 13:43 |
| chem|st | 6 actually... | 13:44 |
| Tegu | mandatory Soon? | 13:44 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | nice future profing: "allow installing untrusted stuff without jolla account" | 13:44 |
| chem|st | Tegu: usual schedule is 7 days after EA | 13:44 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | should help OpenRepos as well | 13:44 |
| Tegu | chem|st: I know, but I also know it has been broken many times :P | 13:44 |
| ggabriel | "Don't request location permission if GPS is disabled" :( | 13:44 |
| chem|st | Tegu: trolls ask for it on day 6, always | 13:44 |
| ggabriel | oh, scratch that, read it the wrong way | 13:44 |
| ggabriel | lol | 13:44 |
| Nicd- | hmm, update is not available yet even though I'm early access | 13:45 |
| chem|st | Tegu: has not been, 7 days after the last EA upgrade, not after the initial EA upgrade ;) | 13:45 |
| Tegu | chem|st: ah :) | 13:46 |
| Jeena | On my Nexus 5 I have Version 1.1.6.27 Aaslakkajrvi, I assume that this is not Sailfish OS 2? Is it possible for me to get Sailfish OS 2.x for my nexus? | 13:48 |
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| Stskeeps | Jeena: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Install_SailfishOS_for_hammerhead ; WIP Over-the-Air updates (OTA) | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | from 1.1.9 | 13:49 |
| Jeena | so I need to update to 1.1.9 first and then to 2.0? | 13:50 |
| Nicd- | it's available \o/ | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | Jeena: if no later builds are there | 13:51 |
| Jeena | Cool, thanks, I'll give it a try tonight | 13:52 |
| phlixi_o | i dont think it is fair to say 2.0 was only done for the tablet (and consumed all money for it). 20 is a big step and of course it was made with size (of the tablet) in mind | 13:57 |
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| phlixi_o | also i disliked some of the changes introduced with 2.0. however i am not as angy as in september any more | 13:58 |
| chem|st | phlixi_o: it is made for size independence | 13:58 |
| phlixi_o | i still miss second cover option and i think swipe on cover was nice and better, but its for me as it is now | 13:58 |
| chem|st | which isn't as easy as it sounds | 13:58 |
| phlixi_o | also the old buttons (and yes there had been buttons in 1.x) where ugly (the ones that looked like a "wrong" underline | 13:59 |
| phlixi_o | chem|st: as i said :D | 14:00 |
| phlixi_o | chem|st: at work we have/had the other way around, getting stuff mobile. i know of all the small things that make headaches :) | 14:01 |
| chem|st | now you are hitting the design department, the old buttons were "different" and neat, the new ones look pretty ugly | 14:01 |
| phlixi_o | and customers that do not understand the limitations of small displays | 14:01 |
| phlixi_o | chem|st now you are hitting the design departement, the new ones are pretty pretty :D | 14:02 |
| chem|st | :D | 14:02 |
| phlixi_o | über geschmack sollte man nicht streiten :D | 14:02 |
| chem|st | but I want to! | 14:02 |
| chem|st | some buttons are just very unneeded overhead and could be replaced by pulls | 14:03 |
| Tofe | Nicd-: I'm preparing it :) | 14:04 |
| chem|st | some big company started to replace button behaviour in their UI with gestures... | 14:04 |
| chem|st | another followed - shortly after that, Jolla replaced gestures with buttons | 14:05 |
| chem|st | and introduced more buttons | 14:05 |
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| * lainwir3d is updating his Jolla tablet | 14:16 | |
| mornfall | well, buttons next to each other look awful | 14:16 |
| mornfall | other than that, I like the new ones better | 14:16 |
| mornfall | lainwir3d: ... | 14:16 |
| lainwir3d | ... sorry :-) | 14:16 |
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| phlixi_o | chem|st i was not about whether there should be buttons or not. i was just talking about the desing of the buttons. and like the new ones. not so much the old ones | 14:19 |
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| mornfall | oh, XMPP started working again | 14:23 |
| mornfall | (not related to the update, just a random event) | 14:24 |
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| inz | This crispy finnish weather gives my Jolla a nice motion blur UI | 14:30 |
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| mornfall | btw. is carddav supposed to work? | 14:35 |
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| phlixi_o | mornfall: syncing contacts on my jolla from ownclkoud works for me | 14:38 |
| phlixi_o | however, i do not add contacts in jolla, only via web | 14:39 |
| mornfall | damn, removing the account was a huge mistake | 14:39 |
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| mornfall | doesn't seem to be possible to put in a port number anymore | 14:40 |
| mornfall | ohwell, it says 'oops' and I don't see it connecting to the server | 14:41 |
| minimec | I am surprised, not to read about the update here... So let me be the first one to tell you: https://blog.jolla.com/taalojarvi_early_access/ | 14:43 |
| mornfall | minimec: lainwir3d mentioned it already | 14:43 |
| mornfall | it's kinda boring though, mostly android fixes | 14:43 |
| Stskeeps | minimec: [14:41] <Stskeeps> meanwhile; https://together.jolla.com/question/126892/release-notes-201taalojarvi-early-access/ | 14:44 |
| lainwir3d | yeah, Stskeeps was first ;-) | 14:44 |
| minimec | I see ;) I did a '/lastlog Taalojrvi' in irssi, and as I did not get any result, I thought that I was the fastest one. | 14:44 |
| lainwir3d | I was just trolling about updating my tablet haha | 14:44 |
| mornfall | lainwir3d: one of those days, someone is going to be really pissed | 14:45 |
| lainwir3d | you think so ? | 14:46 |
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| chem|st | lainwir3d: did you update both your tablets? :D | 14:46 |
| lainwir3d | both ? I only have one | 14:47 |
| lainwir3d | haha, or was that a further trolling ? | 14:47 |
| * lainwir3d is updating his 42 jolla tablets | 14:47 | |
| the_mgt | poooh, I was just sending minions to your place in order to destroy your deveices | 14:47 |
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| Smar | sorry, but I have all the tablets | 14:47 |
| lainwir3d | :D | 14:48 |
| chem|st | lainwir3d: I am still waiting for my lastucse though, did not order one so it wasn't shipped with the device | 14:48 |
| mornfall | I guess jolla just shipped a couple tablets to spite the remaining backers even more | 14:48 |
| roboro | if you have a tablet don't do the update... it broke all 3 of my tablets | 14:49 |
| lainwir3d | chem|st: oh. I have it, it's nice. Though the glue tends to "melt" when the tablet is really hot (like when playing a game) | 14:49 |
| lainwir3d | when when it get colder it's fine again | 14:49 |
| chem|st | argl | 14:50 |
| mornfall | that's a tad stupid :-) | 14:50 |
| lainwir3d | you just have to be careful not to pull at it while it's hot : | 14:50 |
| lainwir3d | :P | 14:50 |
| lainwir3d | roboro: really ? :P lol | 14:50 |
| lainwir3d | all 3 ? what about the remaining 12 ? | 14:50 |
| chem|st | lainwir3d: I guess as soon as dirk is back I give him some money for a proper case | 14:50 |
| roboro | lainwir3d: I think somebody else got those | 14:51 |
| lainwir3d | chem|st: well my comment does sound negative, but I assure you it's not as bad as I make it sound | 14:51 |
| lainwir3d | haha :D | 14:51 |
| mornfall | roboro: you mean someone in China? | 14:51 |
| mornfall | really, this is such an incredible clusterfuck | 14:51 |
| mornfall | I guess I am starting to understand the folks who go vent on the jolla blog's comment section | 14:52 |
| lainwir3d | well, have to go | 14:52 |
| lainwir3d | bye bye | 14:52 |
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| Tofe | One more smooth update | 14:55 |
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| faenil | Tofe: Start Optimising ---> finished ---> nothing happens here | 14:59 |
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| Tofe | faenil: pull to download ? ^^ | 15:00 |
| faenil | no, I still get "Start optimising" | 15:00 |
| Tofe | ah... | 15:00 |
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| Tofe | Not enough space left? | 15:01 |
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| mornfall | the joys of btrfs | 15:01 |
| faenil | don't know, will debug when I get back home | 15:01 |
| mornfall | ancient versions thereof, too | 15:01 |
| faenil | heh :) due to old kernel, due to ODM, due to... | 15:01 |
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| M4rtinK_phone_ | dont worry | 15:02 |
| Tofe | due to too big chunks | 15:02 |
| faenil | no I mean, the old btrfs is due to old kernel, which is due to ODM giving you an old kernel, which is due to... | 15:02 |
| faenil | the mobile world.. | 15:02 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | even the newest versions of BTRFS are still getting critical bugs on regular basis :) | 15:03 |
| Tofe | Well, that's what we call a bet; just they weren't as lucky as with hybris/Wayland | 15:03 |
| faenil | :) | 15:04 |
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| Tofe | I'm pretty sure there can be a way to reformat and choose a much small chunk size and then put back all the filesystem content; can someone try for me ? ;) | 15:06 |
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| chem|st | Tofe: disabling the mirroring of metadata might help already | 15:12 |
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| Tofe | chem|st: my metadata are in pretty good shape, about 50% full, and my Jolla is 50% full, makes sense to me. What I find badly managed is that I only have one chunk totally available, when 50% of the space is still free | 15:15 |
| chem|st | Tofe: isn't it always one chunk | 15:16 |
| Yaniel | smooth update again :) | 15:16 |
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| chem|st | Tofe: btrfs metadata is mirrored on a second device, if there is no second device btrfs mirrors on the single device, for what ever reason, might be compatibility | 15:17 |
| Tofe | chem|st: it can be zero chunk too :) and with balancing, one can free other chunks too | 15:17 |
| Tofe | chem|st: my concern is that with 1Gb chunk, freeing a chunk can be pretty heavy task | 15:18 |
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| chem|st | yeah but isn't it always one chunk as the next is only allocated when it is required? and sure it can be zero :) | 15:18 |
| Tofe | the irony being that there are no needs for such file size allocation on a Jolla | 15:18 |
| chem|st | Tofe: I very much would like to have jolla require an empty 16GB uSD on an upgrade and set things straight | 15:19 |
| Tofe | chem|st: you mean, reconfigure the btrfs stuff and upgrade it? or change the fs type? The latter might be a bit too much | 15:20 |
| chem|st | either | 15:20 |
| chem|st | does not matter what you do, you could do the same as on the tablet, which seems to be the better solution for a single device storage unit | 15:21 |
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| Tofe | I fear it's not something you do when you want to avoid upgrade disaster... | 15:22 |
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| chem|st | Well, NDA some community folks and have flashing stations distributed over the world... anyone who wants to upgrade bayond 2.1 needs to meet up with one | 15:23 |
| chem|st | beyond | 15:23 |
| chem|st | and seriously, there is one simple way on how to manage to do this without fcking everything up on the device... do not erase recovery img! | 15:25 |
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| chem|st | you can basically create a backup image of the device, already in the way you want to format it, as it is basically one partition you want to restructure | 15:27 |
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| tbr | heh, I'd say the next update will get some more delay. I'll just leave this here: CVE-2016-0728 | 15:32 |
| Jope | :-) | 15:33 |
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| M4rtinK_phone_ | tbr: isn't the Jolla kernel too old for that ? | 15:38 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | it is 3.8+ | 15:38 |
| Lipevakala_ | Smooth update. Moust patches working but some need work. | 15:39 |
| tadzik | oh, update? | 15:41 |
| tadzik | \o/ | 15:41 |
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| tbr | M4rtinK_phone_: hmm, right, it's a 3.4 or such, so only the 3.10 adaptations are hit, which oooooh look a squirrel | 15:59 |
| tbr | (the tablet uses 3.10) | 15:59 |
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| Lipevakala_ | Store has some problem... half down at the moment | 16:02 |
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| chem|st | Lipevakala_: how can the store be half down... | 16:08 |
| chem|st | Lipevakala_: and I guess it is called traffic | 16:08 |
| Lipevakala_ | chem|st: yes too much trafic. But they modified something at Stre too... | 16:11 |
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| Lipevakala_ | *store | 16:11 |
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| Lipevakala_ | now working again .... | 16:12 |
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| flux | why can't they just give us a way to pop back to the latest app running from the blank screen :(, the double power-button would have been perfect for that. | 20:01 |
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| M4rtinK | flux: it is a minority feature and no one actually wants that :) | 20:06 |
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| flux | right.. | 20:07 |
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| M4rtinK | regardless of the default behavior on all *other* platforms | 20:07 |
| flux | never I want to return to the web browser, the bus app, the navigation, the media player, etc :) | 20:07 |
| M4rtinK | at least according to chem|st ;-) | 20:07 |
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| flux | I guess I could just never turn off the device, if it wouldn't result in significantly worse battery life time :) | 20:10 |
| flux | (s/turn off/lock the screen of/) | 20:10 |
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| M4rtinK | I really have no plausible idea why it is like this | 20:11 |
| M4rtinK | my Fedora laptop does not do this | 20:11 |
| M4rtinK | and my N900, Neo Free runner, N9, N950, 6610i, PS Vita or HP Touch Pad running CyanogenMod also does not do that | 20:12 |
| flux | but they are not #unlike. | 20:12 |
| M4rtinK | looks like some early regression that never got fixed | 20:12 |
| M4rtinK | #unlike should not break usability | 20:13 |
| M4rtinK | I could say switching to the task view after some timeout (say a few hours) | 20:13 |
| M4rtinK | as at that time you *might* want to switch to another app | 20:14 |
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| M4rtinK | but the current behavior is really stupid | 20:14 |
| M4rtinK | as you have said | 20:14 |
| M4rtinK | try taking photos on an even | 20:14 |
| M4rtinK | use a navigation app during a trip | 20:14 |
| M4rtinK | etc. | 20:14 |
| M4rtinK | flux: well, in any case, vote here: https://together.jolla.com/question/37176/return-to-last-active-app-from-lock-screen/ | 20:15 |
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| M4rtinK | and possibly to some of the related "let me continue where I was last time, dammit!" questions :) | 20:16 |
| flux | thanks, there seems to be a patch for it :) | 20:19 |
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| M4rtinK | well, that' certainly better than nothing | 20:22 |
| M4rtinK | still I thing this is what the default behavior should be | 20:22 |
| M4rtinK | not something one has to seek for any manually apply via a third party solution | 20:23 |
| flux | from openrepos no less | 20:23 |
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| r0kk3rz | hey M4rtinK, i put together a bunch of ubuntu touch universal components if you want them | 20:28 |
| chem|st | it is so fun to answer the same fcking question every upgrade... | 20:28 |
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| flux | I wonder if there was any way to address that particular "question on every upgrade" problem. | 20:30 |
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| chem|st | flux: not really, you can write stuff in the release notes, two things always come up! whining about battery drain and cannot upgrade as optimization fails but I have space left on device | 20:32 |
| flux | well the latter one is a relatively new complaint ;) | 20:32 |
| r0kk3rz | some people just like to bang on their particular drum | 20:32 |
| r0kk3rz | like that prometheus guy and wanting a tablet refund | 20:33 |
| chem|st | flux: it changed from I cannot upgrade to cannot upgrade because optimization fails | 20:33 |
| r0kk3rz | chem|st, its better than 'halp update bricked phone because btfs' | 20:33 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: you really read blog comments? (I am just guessing that it is blog comments) | 20:33 |
| r0kk3rz | chem|st, i know i shouldnt, nothing good ever comes of reading blog comments | 20:34 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: that it was before but that did not last very long | 20:34 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: :) | 20:34 |
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| phlixi | M4rtinK: i have another "unlike" feature, how about opening a link in browser not from within the browser (lets say from an qr reader app) | 21:48 |
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| phlixi | i thinkn thats even worse | 21:48 |
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| M4rtinK | phlixi: I don't get that | 22:27 |
| M4rtinK | phlixi: you can open links from other apps (say twitter client) in browser | 22:27 |
| M4rtinK | phlixi: or did you men something else ? | 22:27 |
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| chem|st | M4rtinK: I think he means that it always overwrites teh current tab | 22:34 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, that been quite chaotic | 22:35 |
| chem|st | it is just stupid | 22:35 |
| M4rtinK | does it actually overwrite it or just adds itself on top of the stack | 22:35 |
| M4rtinK | on the given tab | 22:35 |
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| M4rtinK | it certainly does not open a new one | 22:36 |
| chem|st | some stuff does leave a revers arrow, but sometimes even that is missing | 22:36 |
| chem|st | if available you can go back to the page, but in some cases you have weird page fwds and would need to go back 3 pages to not end up on the same page over and over again | 22:37 |
| chem|st | so yes it uses the current tab and just loads the "next" page as if written in the url input | 22:37 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, I think works like that | 22:38 |
| M4rtinK | kinda weird | 22:38 |
| M4rtinK | opening new tabs would certainly be preferable | 22:39 |
| chem|st | kinda weird is that this is an initial release issue... | 22:39 |
| M4rtinK | for stuff like opening multiple links from Twitter for further reading | 22:39 |
| M4rtinK | like this you have to "pop" them out in order | 22:39 |
| M4rtinK | I "think" there have been some changes in this behavior | 22:40 |
| M4rtinK | over the releases | 22:40 |
| M4rtinK | also, wasnt this actually fixed in the latest update ? | 22:40 |
| M4rtinK | (I have not yet installed it) | 22:40 |
| chem|st | no idea about twitter but everything I use opens anything in current tab, be it links from store pages or anything else | 22:41 |
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| M4rtinK | that reminds me | 22:47 |
| M4rtinK | that it is still not possible to set a default browser | 22:47 |
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| M4rtinK | for opening links | 22:47 |
| M4rtinK | at least AFAIK | 22:47 |
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