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| tiwake | woo, just got a nexus 5 today, gonna try putting SailfishOS on it sometime later | 06:22 |
|---|---|---|
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| Stskeeps | woo | 06:33 |
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| * keithzg wishes he could figure out where he put his damned Nexus 4! | 08:55 | |
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| pdanek | https://twitter.com/idiot/status/673841679481327616 | 09:36 |
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| lainwir3d | o/ | 09:46 |
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| lainwir3d | what the hell happened to the flattr website ? | 12:26 |
| lainwir3d | Everything is upside down, can't find any info anymore | 12:26 |
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| pdanek | Guys, | 12:36 |
| pdanek | Community meeting is tomorrow, is that right? | 12:36 |
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| Nokius_work | pdanek yes | 16:15 |
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| JollaSailor_Simo | Halo guys! | 16:26 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | can someone explain this google play service thing on jolla? pros and con | 16:27 |
| ggabriel | you mean installing them? | 16:27 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | yup | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | selling your soul vs not.. | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:27 |
| ggabriel | well, some applications (e.g., uber) need them | 16:27 |
| ggabriel | so if you need those applications, you need google services | 16:27 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | haha | 16:28 |
| ggabriel | and then google services is a bit of a black box, bloates your device, etc. | 16:28 |
| ggabriel | pretty much the same case as with an android phone to be fair | 16:28 |
| ggabriel | for example, I stopped using uber | 16:28 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | because of it? | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | yes | 16:29 |
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| ggabriel | i think google services provides stuff like maps and so on | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | so some lazy developers use it instead of implementing their own | 16:29 |
| Hartzi | ggabriel: and user statistic tracking | 16:29 |
| Hartzi | and other user tarcking | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | but then you don't know what else google services does | 16:29 |
| Hartzi | tracking* | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | I didn't bother with a tcpdump | 16:30 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | so basically installing them is the first step to have all android problem on jolla? | 16:30 |
| ggabriel | well, android is a problem, or a virus; depends on your views :P | 16:30 |
| ggabriel | in fairness, some poeple can live with it | 16:30 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | i can't haha | 16:30 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | that's why i first bought a windows phone | 16:31 |
| the_mgt | you need google services in order to use the play store. which is probably the easiest method of installing apps | 16:32 |
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| the_mgt | but as mentioned, you trade in your soul for exchange | 16:32 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | perfect haha | 16:32 |
| the_mgt | there are other stores, like aptoid, amazon store, etc which do a similar thing, but do not have all apps | 16:33 |
| ggabriel | on the plus side, you can always switch android off | 16:33 |
| the_mgt | you can also download apks directly, and as long as they do not need anything offered by google services, they will run. more or less, depending on the app | 16:33 |
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| sakustar | does jolla sync contacts thru google (to other devices) | 16:34 |
| ggabriel | well, I quoted uber, which is quite popular | 16:34 |
| the_mgt | all of the apps i wanted to install just work without google services | 16:34 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | infact i'm using aptoide but some silly games need gplay service | 16:34 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | but i don't care about | 16:34 |
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| ggabriel | quite nnoying | 16:34 |
| ggabriel | a+ | 16:34 |
| the_mgt | I dont use uber | 16:34 |
| Bysmyyr | sakustar: thats possible | 16:35 |
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| JollaSailor_Simo | if a game require gplay service there is nothing i can do (like lucky patcher) instead of selling my soul? | 16:46 |
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| 18WABCDPV | JollaSailor_Simo: easy to install | 16:51 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | install what? | 16:53 |
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| phlixi_o | actually i dont get it | 17:09 |
| phlixi_o | if you install google services | 17:09 |
| phlixi_o | why the hell didnt you go with a nexus in the first place? | 17:09 |
| 18WABCDPV | phlixi_o: because nexus doesn't have Sailfish UI, gestures, native apps of Sailfish etc.? | 17:10 |
| phlixi_o | isnt that the USP that the jolla comes WITHOUT the crap? | 17:10 |
| 18WABCDPV | no | 17:10 |
| 18WABCDPV | I don't think that's main reason why people buy Jolla, because it goes without "the crap" | 17:10 |
| 18WABCDPV | You can get Android ROM without the crap too | 17:10 |
| 18WABCDPV | ohlixi_o: I'm happy Sailfish user for 2 years now with Google Play on it, never had any issue with it, across all updates | 17:11 |
| 18WABCDPV | saves much hassle than dealing with Aptoide and getting apps like internet banking manually / having to download updates manually all the time | 17:12 |
| 18WABCDPV | moreover, if you use 3rd party aptoide store which provides your internet banking app, it's not trustable from security point of view, someone could have compiled some backdoor in it | 17:12 |
| phlixi_o | 18WABCDPV did you ever used a 4.x or higher android on a dayly basis? or an ios device? | 17:12 |
| 18WABCDPV | so you need internet banking app from the original publisher | 17:12 |
| 18WABCDPV | it means always downloading the apt file manually from google play to your phone = hassle | 17:13 |
| 18WABCDPV | that was just an example with internet banking | 17:13 |
| 17WAA5QZV | 18WABCDPV: yes | 17:14 |
| 17WAA5QZV | I played with iOS many times... but used Android on daily basis many times | 17:14 |
| 17WAA5QZV | I was even owner of Tmobile G1, the first Android | 17:14 |
| 17WAA5QZV | but I always preferred Maemo/Sailfish | 17:14 |
| phlixi_o | and for what reason? | 17:15 |
| 17WAA5QZV | nice gesture-based UI | 17:15 |
| 17WAA5QZV | for example | 17:15 |
| 17WAA5QZV | the native apps provide good experience | 17:15 |
| 17WAA5QZV | I hate "back button" and other buttons.... buttons are not the way of doing things on mobile device | 17:16 |
| 17WAA5QZV | I don't think lack of Google Services is the reason why people choose Sailfish, you can get exactly the same on Android... even all the proprietary parts from Google includijng dialer app etc. have their open-source alternatives available | 17:17 |
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| phlixi_o | thats new to me, where can i buy that? | 17:18 |
| pdanek | phlixi_o: DIY unfortunately | 17:18 |
| pdanek | can't buy | 17:18 |
| pdanek | JollaSailor_Simo: https://together.jolla.com/question/30926/howto-install-google-play/ | 17:19 |
| phlixi_o | ah, so now we are back again, the the UNIQUE selling point | 17:19 |
| phlixi_o | that does not mean its the opnly selling point, its a UNIQUE selling point | 17:20 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | pdnaek i don't want to install them :P thabks however | 17:20 |
| pdanek | phlixi_o: how is Sailfish being half-proprietary OS being unique? | 17:20 |
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| phlixi_o | pdanek: scroll up | 17:20 |
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| phlixi_o | JollaSailor_Simo: thats the same argument as for your banking app: i do not want to download some random ROM from whatever | 17:21 |
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| 18WABCDPV | phlixi_o: then Blackberry is unique too, from this point of view. | 17:21 |
| 18WABCDPV | no crap and google services | 17:22 |
| 18WABCDPV | but still android support | 17:22 |
| JollaSailor_Simo | Phil i didn't understand what you are saying | 17:22 |
| phlixi_o | and for the UI, i didnt tested that: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jolla.launcher.stella but it promises what you where looking for... | 17:22 |
| tadzik | it's still not for Android 5 though, is it? | 17:22 |
| HtheB | tadzik: indeed | 17:22 |
| HtheB | not for 5 | 17:23 |
| SQUelcher | aaaaaaaa | 17:23 |
| 18WABCDPV | I know STella launcher and it's old ya | 17:23 |
| SQUelcher | erm | 17:23 |
| SQUelcher | sorry :P | 17:23 |
| 18WABCDPV | I would even need Android 6, not speaking about 5 | 17:23 |
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| r0kk3rz | damnit jolla, why did you have to convince me that i wanted an x86 tablet with nice screen :p | 17:37 |
| r0kk3rz | doesnt really seem to be much else available in that regard | 17:38 |
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| Lipevakala | Hmm, profit Here wants. http://www.gpsbusinessnews.com/HERE-German-Car-Makers-Do-Not-Want-to-Run-a-Not-For-Profit_a5764.html | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | how is that different from how they ran before? | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | huuuge value in their dataset | 18:19 |
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| r0kk3rz | i dunno, i think google is better at having additional maps related things like the location of company X | 18:28 |
| r0kk3rz | and up to date transit information | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | r0kk3rz: i thought so too until i one day had to try to find fairphone's offices | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | who had moved long ago | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:30 |
| r0kk3rz | yes thats true, sometimes google has led me down the garden path as well | 18:30 |
| r0kk3rz | but is here any better in that regard? its a hard problem to solve | 18:31 |
| r0kk3rz | since the real world is changing all the time | 18:31 |
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| Yaniel | we just need more surv- automation | 18:34 |
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| r0kk3rz | exactly, and google is well ahead on that curve i think | 18:36 |
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| 18WABCDPV | Stskeeps: HOw do you like Nokia's Z Launcher? | 18:45 |
| *** 18WABCDPV is now known as pdanek | 18:45 | |
| Stskeeps | pdanek: well, since it was partly made by good people i know, it's good | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | pdanek: that'll be 50 EUR. | 18:46 |
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| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: entering the world as a consultant now are we? | 18:58 |
| kjetilho | r0kk3rz: are you sure you can afford the answer? | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | r0kk3rz: re-entering | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:58 |
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| pdanek | :D | 19:01 |
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| HtheB | :D | 19:07 |
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| Stskeeps | http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/08/mozilla-will-stop-developing-and-selling-firefox-os-smartphones/ | 19:10 |
| Nicd- | oh | 19:11 |
| Nicd- | Ari Jaaksi at it again, failures really seem to follow him :D | 19:11 |
| tj____ | hah | 19:12 |
| Nicd- | not implying causality, probably just bad timing | 19:12 |
| r0kk3rz | seems they were pushing something nobody wants | 19:12 |
| Nicd- | he was on the webos team too | 19:12 |
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| Nicd- | also hahaha: "In February 2012 HP released Isis, a new web browser for Open WebOS." | 19:13 |
| Nicd- | naming is hard | 19:13 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah ooppppssss | 19:13 |
| tadzik | :D | 19:13 |
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| tj____ | there's so many isises around, who cares | 19:14 |
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| pdanek | I think sales of Firefox OS phones were far higher than Intex Sailfish will ever be? | 19:15 |
| Stskeeps | time to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsuE80zW4w4 | 19:16 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | were they something like $ 20 phones? | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | HarhaanJohtaja: well, their 25 USD phones were slaughtered by the press | 19:16 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | or was that their target? | 19:16 |
| pdanek | $50 | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | but | 19:16 |
| pdanek | oh | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | it wasn't actually bad | 19:16 |
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| Stskeeps | (i have one) | 19:16 |
| r0kk3rz | can you really argue for the price? | 19:17 |
| pdanek | Stskeeps: If you need to use Android now (like there is no other OS on the market and you urgently need smartphone :D::D), would you use Z Launcher? | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | pdanek: no, i'm boring when it comes to launchers | 19:18 |
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| sakustar | why use a launcher ? | 19:24 |
| sakustar | custom rom? | 19:24 |
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| sakustar | r0kk3rz: it usually only takes like 2 weeks for google to update errors in the maps too, which is nice | 19:42 |
| sakustar | reported errors that is | 19:45 |
| ortylp | sakustar: or have it updated instantly in OSM | 19:45 |
| sakustar | in what | 19:45 |
| sakustar | open streetmap? | 19:46 |
| ortylp | http://www.openstreetmap.org/ | 19:46 |
| sakustar | are there any navigation apps that use em | 19:46 |
| sakustar | with routes | 19:46 |
| sakustar | since gmaps stopped routing for some reason | 19:47 |
| sakustar | here maps works fine | 19:47 |
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| Mikaela | OSM something | 19:48 |
| ortylp | sakustar: FOSS: OSMAnd, Commercial: Skobbler, there are also other apps, but need online connection, these two mentioned by name work offline | 19:48 |
| Mikaela | OSMAnd | 19:48 |
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| Mikaela | I just didn't use it foe long time, because it had no idea of house numbers in Kotka or Kouvola | 19:49 |
| sakustar | yeah my main issues have been driving to remote summer houses | 19:49 |
| Inkku | has anyone got their tablet yet? I haven't really been following the situation | 19:49 |
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| sakustar | lumia guided me straight into the forest tho. almost got stuck in a tractor path :( | 19:50 |
| sakustar | guess it would have been a way to get there if i was brave enough | 19:50 |
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| pdanek1 | https://www.zlauncher.com/jobs.html | 20:12 |
| pdanek1 | they're even hiring for Z Launcher, wow | 20:12 |
| pdanek1 | but it's not paid launcher | 20:12 |
| pdanek1 | how is it pofitable? | 20:12 |
| Stskeeps | magic valuations | 20:12 |
| Stskeeps | potential means to send ads to people | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:13 |
| tbr | IPR | 20:13 |
| pdanek1 | hmmm | 20:13 |
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| tbr | they could take a further enhanced version to possible own devices in the future as an exclusive differentiator | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | they did on the N1 i think | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | where ironically they couldn't demo here maps since it came with google apps.. | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:15 |
| pdanek1 | hmmmm | 20:15 |
| pdanek1 | Stskeeps: Is it like a license obligation that when you ship phone with Google Apps, the default Map application must be Google Maps? | 20:16 |
| Stskeeps | fairly sure there's some nasty things | 20:16 |
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| pdanek1 | Stskeeps: What about antimonopoly regulations? | 20:18 |
| pdanek1 | fiarly sure something like that would be against it | 20:18 |
| tbr | go bring suite with your local supervisory authority | 20:19 |
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| * Stskeeps glances at http://lwn.net/Articles/667190/rss | 20:23 | |
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| r0kk3rz | well i guess its like pre-packaging iexplore with windows | 20:27 |
| pdanek1 | Stskeeps: That is perhaps situation in every 2nd company, including places like banks and corporations. | 20:27 |
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| Yaniel | does this mean mozilla is adopting sfos? | 20:33 |
| r0kk3rz | Yaniel: i don't follow; mozilla is clearly refocussing on their browser game | 20:34 |
| r0kk3rz | rather than their side projects like fxos and thunderbird | 20:34 |
| tbr | they refocused on developing adblockers for iOS | 20:35 |
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| r0kk3rz | eff needs to do a privacy badger app | 20:36 |
| pdanek1 | Yaniel: I think it means Mozilla is trying to cut costs wherever possible, they wanna cut Thunderbird development too and their main focus is to remove XUL from their browser in order to switch into Chrome-like multiprocess architecture which they call Electrolysis | 20:36 |
| Stskeeps | or we just need to revamp the entire story | 20:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:36 |
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| tbr | pdanek1: they didn't really spend any money on thunderbird for a loong while | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: ironically it seems like it became more stable when they didn't | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:38 |
| kimmoli | chrome like "doesn't look so memory hodge" when you see lors of smaller processes | 20:38 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: there are reasons why the codebase of mailnews is known as "the deep dark dungeon" and is probably still 90% netscape code untouched | 20:39 |
| TemeV | funny that you mention Thunderbird. Has anyone got it to work with owncloud caldav? | 20:39 |
| tbr | for the uninitiated: mailnews was the netscape suite component with the mail client, which got spun out as thunderbird after firefox happened | 20:40 |
| kjetilho | there is this strange perception that code is never *done*. if it hasn't changed in 5 years, it is bad. I say it is the opposite! | 20:40 |
| TemeV | I was just tryin to do that but can't find a place for password | 20:40 |
| pdanek | tbr: money was in Firefox OS, cutting Thunderbird development is due to removal of XUL, TB is dependant on it, isn't it? | 20:41 |
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| r0kk3rz | kjetilho: gotta get on that new shiny bandwagon-of-the-week | 20:42 |
| kjetilho | yeah, let's rewrite everything in Rust. or Swift | 20:42 |
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| tbr | pdanek: dunno, it's been a while since I gave up on my involvement in the Netscape2 community | 20:42 |
| r0kk3rz | erlang, erlang everywhere | 20:43 |
| Nekron_ | go | 20:43 |
| kjetilho | I guess hipsters will resurrect COBOL, too | 20:43 |
| kimmoli | APL | 20:44 |
| Nekron_ | yea apl!!! | 20:44 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah well, the vendor lockin game is still running, so everyone will have their own one-true-language | 20:44 |
| pdanek | kjetilho: well, mainframes are becoming "cool" again, it's just matter of time when hipsters will discover COBOL | 20:44 |
| r0kk3rz | swift/c#/rust/go | 20:45 |
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| pdanek | http://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2015/11/09/google-android-one-failure/ | 20:50 |
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| pdanek | Android One has pretty much same model as Sailfish OS | 20:51 |
| pdanek | provide the vendors reference HW design and OS updates | 20:51 |
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| YgorR | Hello, I am happy owner of the Jolla smartphone | 20:52 |
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| Yaniel | yay | 20:54 |
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| YgorR | Can I install some apk package( orion viewer to read djvu format ) within command line , through SSH? I tried apkd-install myapk.apk BUT got some messages like: | 21:02 |
| YgorR | method return sender=:1.5 -> dest=:1.452 reply_serial=2 | 21:03 |
| YgorR | boolean true | 21:03 |
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| YgorR | Also window rise at Smartphone with offering to install | 21:04 |
| YgorR | But there is some cases when I have only SSH acces to Jolla | 21:04 |
| YgorR | access* | 21:04 |
| inz | I've used cp foo.apk /data/app/ | 21:05 |
| inz | not the cleanest way, but does the trick | 21:05 |
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| YgorR | That's interesting... | 21:06 |
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| ortylp | YgorR: for sideloading I use "File Browser" from the UI | 21:15 |
| YgorR | One thing yet... Ive made pkcon get-updates and get update of upower is it safe enough to install it ? upower-0.9.23+git3-1.4.1.armv7hl -> upower-0.9.23+git3-1.4.3.armv7hl | 21:16 |
| ortylp | YgorR: maybe xdg-open on the CLI does the trick too | 21:16 |
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| YgorR | ortylp: ok thank you | 21:23 |
| r0kk3rz | YgorR: that will likely just route it to apkd-install | 21:24 |
| r0kk3rz | which as you've found, wants ui attention | 21:25 |
| YgorR | r0kk3rz: You are right | 21:26 |
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| YgorR | Seems to be cp foo.apk /data/app/ is most usable case. | 21:29 |
| YgorR | in practice | 21:29 |
| YgorR | for now | 21:29 |
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| YgorR | Does anybody using the Foursail 4sq client? | 21:39 |
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| pdanek2 | Hello, is Dalvik VM Android 4 or 5 please? | 23:57 |
| phlixi | 4 | 23:57 |
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| pdanek2 | thx | 23:58 |
| coderus | 4.1.2 :) | 23:58 |
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