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| tortoisedoc | so jolla party on next thursday? :) | 09:04 |
|---|---|---|
| mornfall | what party? | 09:04 |
| tortoisedoc | just a party :P | 09:05 |
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| Tofe | Oh, Oh, Oh... | 09:07 |
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| Stskeeps | naturally this is where people swim in money from the tablets | 09:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:08 |
| mornfall | what tablets? :P | 09:09 |
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| pdanek | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLO7tCdBVrA | 09:13 |
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| mornfall | pdanek: ... | 09:17 |
| giucam | i prefer swimming in tablets | 09:20 |
| pdanek | :D | 09:22 |
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| tortoisedoc | swimming in tablets might be....challengin? | 09:25 |
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| plfiorini | if only the money was spent on the tablet... rather than sfos2 | 09:35 |
| Stskeeps | plfiorini: i really don't understand that argument though | 09:36 |
| TemeV | plfiorini: you do realize, there would be no tablet without sfos2 | 09:36 |
| TemeV | ? | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | to some degree, investment money has been used for tablet, and some tablet money has been used on sf2.0, the cash flows are never clear cut | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | at some point cash flow stops and everything falls apart | 09:37 |
| TemeV | so tablet money was kind of "borrowed" for sw development :) | 09:37 |
| plfiorini | TemeV: what was wrong with sfos1? | 09:37 |
| Stskeeps | as a start, it simply didn't perform on a 2K display | 09:37 |
| Stskeeps | it was generally rejected by sales channels and users | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | it was very portrait only | 09:38 |
| mornfall | sfos2 is still very portrait only | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | sfos1 is even worse | 09:39 |
| Stskeeps | not to mention a lot of scaling issues | 09:39 |
| Stskeeps | you build a product nowadays combined hw and sw, else you'd all run around with phone hardware at 30 USD price (from factory) | 09:39 |
| mornfall | doesn't really make much of a difference... all the UI that matters in the OS is locked in portrait mode | 09:40 |
| mornfall | which makes navigation in landscape impossible | 09:40 |
| mornfall | so yes, you can landscape an app, but to switch to another you have to flip to portrait, etc. | 09:40 |
| plfiorini | dunno i'm just wondering if with less investment on the OS we would have tablets in our hands | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | plfiorini: i highly doubt it | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | plfiorini: there was a lot of hw adaptation work done as well | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | graphics pipeline optimizations | 09:41 |
| Stskeeps | etc | 09:41 |
| mornfall | but yes, I get the point, sfos1 is bad, sfos2 is still bad but there isn't enough $$$ to make it better anyway | 09:41 |
| mornfall | (at doing landscape, at least) | 09:41 |
| Stskeeps | people seem to forget sfos 1.0.0 :P | 09:41 |
| plfiorini | i don't, it's still way better than this android shit i'm using now | 09:41 |
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| mornfall | Stskeeps: well, being entirely portrait-locked is at least consistent :P | 09:42 |
| pp_ | aka. "update to sailfish 1.0.2.5 os" | 09:42 |
| mornfall | whatever, the question now is whether there will be any sfos at all | 09:42 |
| pp_ | or does it go to 1.0.4, can't remember :-) | 09:42 |
| Yaniel | ah the nostalgia | 09:43 |
| mornfall | maybe I should go back to gadgetless | 09:43 |
| mornfall | I guess it was pretty OK | 09:43 |
| mornfall | and my gadget budget is tied up in that jolla tablet anyway :P | 09:43 |
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| Stskeeps | in the end you can't sell a tablet without any OS installed, to the amount of backers we had | 09:46 |
| Stskeeps | or completely broken | 09:46 |
| mornfall | technically, you aren't selling it anymore at that point | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | ok, wrong word | 09:47 |
| lainwir3d | huh... wait.. what ? | 09:50 |
| lainwir3d | what's wrong with sailfish os 2 in landscape ? | 09:50 |
| lainwir3d | feels pretty good on my tablet | 09:50 |
| * Stskeeps ponders some more coffee | 09:50 | |
| mornfall | lainwir3d: well, it doesn't work on the phone then | 09:50 |
| mornfall | maybe it's a different build | 09:50 |
| lainwir3d | yeah, I think it's locked on the phone | 09:51 |
| mornfall | also, fuck off with your tablet :) | 09:51 |
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| lainwir3d | maybe because the screen is too small | 09:51 |
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| lainwir3d | but I garanty you that on the tablet except for a few pages everything can be used in both portrait and landscape | 09:51 |
| lainwir3d | mornfall: haha sorry :-D | 09:51 |
| giucam | yeah, on the tablet it's much more landscapey than on the phone | 09:52 |
| mornfall | no it can't, because there is no tablet | 09:52 |
| mornfall | so well ... | 09:52 |
| lainwir3d | want a picture ? :P I use it everyday :P | 09:52 |
| lainwir3d | I still can't believe how lucky I am | 09:52 |
| mornfall | yeah, who would have thought it was a lottery | 09:52 |
| lainwir3d | lol | 09:53 |
| mornfall | won a tablet worth 160k$ or so :) | 09:53 |
| mornfall | how many are there? | 09:53 |
| mornfall | maybe it's just 16k$ | 09:53 |
| * mornfall can't remember | 09:53 | |
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| Yaniel | hmm my jolla randomly forgets how to resolve urls | 10:50 |
| Yaniel | specifically on 4g | 10:50 |
| ggabriel | define "resolve urls" | 10:50 |
| ggabriel | you mean dns lookups? | 10:51 |
| Yaniel | yes | 10:51 |
| ggabriel | that could be your carrier tho | 10:51 |
| ggabriel | I remember once or twice having to hack /etc/resolv.conf | 10:51 |
| ggabriel | and it was obviously a temporary problem | 10:51 |
| Yaniel | I can ping ip addresses fine but any hostname just times out with "host not found" | 10:51 |
| ggabriel | just add 4.2.2.2 in /etc/resolv.conf | 10:52 |
| Yaniel | haven't had problems with wlan though | 10:52 |
| ggabriel | there's a plus side, if it's a carrier issue | 10:52 |
| Yaniel | what's that? | 10:52 |
| FireFly | What DNS server is that? | 10:52 |
| ggabriel | it's a dns server that works | 10:52 |
| ggabriel | some people discourage usage and prefer google's (8.8.8.8) | 10:52 |
| FireFly | I usually go with Google's--4.4.8.8 | 10:52 |
| ggabriel | but I don't like google | 10:52 |
| ggabriel | yeah, google is bad though | 10:52 |
| ggabriel | but anyway, Yaniel, happened to me a few times, nothing to do with jolla I think | 10:53 |
| Yaniel | very possible | 10:53 |
| ggabriel | I did have a very pleasant internet experience then though | 10:53 |
| SQUelcher | 4.2.2.2 is redirecting to a spam "search helper" page on unknown domains.. | 10:53 |
| ggabriel | as all fanbois/fandroids had the same issue but they didn't have a terminal with root :P | 10:53 |
| ggabriel | SQUelcher: huh? I mean dns | 10:54 |
| Nicd- | shouldn't use 4.2.2.2 | 10:54 |
| Nicd- | it's for level 3 customers | 10:54 |
| tbr | 4.2.2.2 used to be popular 10 years ago, but got superseded by google dns and others for most people | 10:54 |
| tbr | it used to be an open dns | 10:54 |
| ggabriel | it just works (tm) | 10:55 |
| tbr | there are a few other known good open dns servers | 10:55 |
| SQUelcher | it is still, with this "level3 search helper" | 10:55 |
| tbr | e.g. ccc runs one IIRC | 10:55 |
| Lieke | http://www.opennicproject.org/ | 10:56 |
| ggabriel | trouble is that you don't simply do dns research when you don't have a working dns | 10:56 |
| ggabriel | 4.2.2.2 is easy to remember :P | 10:56 |
| Tegu | or try looking up the IP addresses of your the DNS servers of your operator and adding them manually? though.. I guess that might not work with WLAN then if they are global | 10:56 |
| wysiwtf | quad8 ftw | 10:57 |
| ggabriel | Tegu: in general they firewall that | 10:57 |
| Tegu | ggabriel: hm? | 10:57 |
| Tegu | wlans? | 10:57 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: it's still only for level 3 customers | 10:57 |
| ggabriel | Yaniel's issue is when in 4g, you can't simply use your home btroadband operator's dns | 10:58 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: I understand, but it still works for emergencies | 10:58 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: 8.8.8.8 works for emergencies and is actually public | 10:58 |
| Tegu | yea, I thought if the 4g operator has similar DNS server lists, not sure | 10:58 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: true, but I don't encourage people to use google stuff | 10:58 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: then point to some other open DNS | 10:59 |
| ggabriel | Tegu: well, but those would be the ones not working in this instance :) | 10:59 |
| wysiwtf | if level3 wants just l3 customers using their dns they can apply ip filters | 10:59 |
| wysiwtf | like every other isp does it too | 10:59 |
| Nicd- | wysiwtf: you are the reason for needing IP filters ;) | 10:59 |
| wysiwtf | no | 10:59 |
| Tegu | ggabriel: yea, true. unless it bugs somehow and doesn't switch to the next DNS server correctly. | 11:00 |
| wysiwtf | you should adapt the tech to the humans, not the humans to the tech | 11:00 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: I really don't care so long as it's open, and it works | 11:00 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: I'm also level8 :P | 11:00 |
| wysiwtf | i doubt l3 even notices the increased traffic | 11:00 |
| wysiwtf | i heard they have some of it :p | 11:00 |
| Nicd- | seems l3 are hijacking failed dns requests though | 11:04 |
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| SQUelcher | wysiwtf! | 11:08 |
| wysiwtf | squ | 11:08 |
| ggabriel | Tegu: yes, it's annoying, my carrier switches dns's often, depending on where I am. I only hack this stuff when I really need internet... | 11:12 |
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| ggabriel | cool, I can unlock the bootloader of my work android phone. let's see if it can run sfos when the contract ends ;) | 11:25 |
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| tortoisedoc | OHO | 13:03 |
| tortoisedoc | have tablet shipment resumed??? | 13:03 |
| tortoisedoc | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1490464&postcount=2447 | 13:04 |
| tortoisedoc | O-O | 13:04 |
| tortoisedoc | only 64GB tho.. | 13:04 |
| tortoisedoc | mines is 32 >-< | 13:04 |
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| mornfall | you got to be kidding me | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | or maybe the finnish post got unstuck? | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | dunno | 13:22 |
| tortoisedoc | hah | 13:22 |
| tortoisedoc | stuck for two months? :P | 13:22 |
| mornfall | you mean hk post | 13:22 |
| mornfall | ? | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | no, finnish | 13:22 |
| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : mornfall might not be in FI? | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | http://postandparcel.info/69406/news/prospect-of-strike-hangs-over-finlands-postal-service/ | 13:23 |
| mornfall | yes, but I don't think sending tablets has anything to do with finnish post (receiving in finland, probably yes, but ...) | 13:23 |
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| tortoisedoc | unless that particular tablet was shipped from FI, that is | 13:24 |
| plfiorini | mine is 64GB :) | 13:24 |
| ggabriel | the post says order completed | 13:25 |
| ggabriel | doesn't say they received the tablet | 13:25 |
| ggabriel | maybe somebody did something in shop.jolla.com | 13:25 |
| mornfall | that too | 13:25 |
| ggabriel | that may or may not mean anything | 13:25 |
| ggabriel | sorry for the downer :P | 13:25 |
| ggabriel | (best to keep expectations low) | 13:25 |
| tortoisedoc | ggabriel : hah! | 13:25 |
| tortoisedoc | lets keep our fingers crossed ;) | 13:26 |
| mornfall | well, I don't think my expectations can get much lower... jolla keeps screwing its core supporters even from beyond the grave :P | 13:26 |
| ggabriel | all my toes were crossed yesterday (was wearing very tight climbing shoes) | 13:27 |
| tortoisedoc | wait what, is jolla dead? | 13:27 |
| mornfall | basically, yes | 13:27 |
| tortoisedoc | mornfall : not yet? | 13:27 |
| mornfall | could be brought back to life by the right amount of cash, sure | 13:28 |
| tortoisedoc | so please avoid spreading strange rumors kthx :) | 13:28 |
| mornfall | it's not a rumour, jolla can't pay bills and can't pay salaries either | 13:28 |
| mornfall | so they aren't operating | 13:28 |
| mornfall | that's pretty dead isn't it | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | mornfall: well, surprisingily we're still operating | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | not fast, but we're operating | 13:29 |
| tortoisedoc | mornfall : dead means gone | 13:29 |
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| tortoisedoc | as nokia is | 13:29 |
| tortoisedoc | as meego is | 13:29 |
| ggabriel | mornfall: ok, you're wrong :P | 13:29 |
| ggabriel | they are paying salaries | 13:29 |
| tortoisedoc | as STP's singer is :/ | 13:29 |
| mornfall | tortoisedoc: nokia is much more alive than jolla, coincidentally | 13:29 |
| ggabriel | they have enough to go for an undetermined period of time | 13:29 |
| tortoisedoc | mornfall : MeeGoNokia | 13:29 |
| ggabriel | and you're right in that they need money influx | 13:29 |
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| ggabriel | also, I had a dream that I cracked my new jolla's screen; so I'll need another jolla soon :P | 13:29 |
| mornfall | well, 'operating' | 13:30 |
| mornfall | it all hinges on cash coming in | 13:31 |
| tortoisedoc | mornfall : money talks | 13:31 |
| Tofe | One thing is sure, they don't see the light of day very much | 13:32 |
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| ggabriel | Tofe: lol | 13:33 |
| ggabriel | mornfall: that's how all companies work | 13:33 |
| plfiorini | operating but with one foot in the grave | 13:34 |
| mornfall | ggabriel: some companies have cash reserves :) and some net worth, even, sometimes | 13:34 |
| mornfall | not twitter of course | 13:34 |
| mornfall | people beat other people just to be able to give twitter some monies | 13:34 |
| mornfall | even though the company is consistently generating huge losses :D | 13:34 |
| ggabriel | so does amd, maybe intel | 13:35 |
| ggabriel | several airlines too | 13:35 |
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| ggabriel | somehow, everybody needs money | 13:35 |
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| tortoisedoc | you forgot the big A guys | 13:42 |
| tortoisedoc | they have all the cash of the world | 13:42 |
| tortoisedoc | Tofe : only 6 months a year | 13:42 |
| mornfall | they didn't pull the cash out of thin air | 13:43 |
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| mornfall | and as for intel, they make $15 billion a year net, that's hardly strapped for cash | 13:43 |
| tortoisedoc | how about M$ | 13:43 |
| mornfall | $11, anyway | 13:43 |
| mornfall | billion, duh | 13:43 |
| tortoisedoc | peanuts ;) | 13:43 |
| ggabriel | apple has a lot of cash | 13:44 |
| mornfall | airlines are probably a different story... times are tough | 13:44 |
| ggabriel | wait until they are forced to spend it | 13:44 |
| ggabriel | they'll lose a lot of money in shares | 13:45 |
| ggabriel | steve jobs is gone.... apple is a goner, sooner or later | 13:45 |
| mornfall | heh, that's true of any company... anything, really | 13:45 |
| mornfall | 'sooner or later' could be hell of a long time | 13:45 |
| ggabriel | my original point | 13:45 |
| ggabriel | everybody needs cash, and it depends on wehre that cash is | 13:45 |
| ggabriel | apple is alive because of m$ fwiw | 13:45 |
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| mornfall | it was really iPod that made Apple what it is today | 13:49 |
| tortoisedoc | yes | 13:50 |
| tortoisedoc | iPod changed things | 13:50 |
| tortoisedoc | then iPhone | 13:50 |
| tortoisedoc | then iPad | 13:50 |
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| Nicd- | can't discount iTunes | 13:50 |
| mornfall | there were quite a few good decisions involved though, it's wasn't *entirely* a coinflip :P | 13:51 |
| mornfall | either way, it'll take a long time for that to be undone, and some ingenuous competitors | 13:51 |
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| mornfall | on the other hand, the meego line seems to be cursed :-) | 13:53 |
| tortoisedoc | and perhaps some new needs from customers | 13:53 |
| mornfall | maemo line, more like | 13:53 |
| mornfall | whatever, it keeps going and keeps burning through companies :D | 13:53 |
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| louisdk | My Jolla phone will be picked up at monday and will be sent to Finland for repair for the 2nd time. | 16:43 |
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| ggabriel | louisdk: what's wrong with it? | 16:43 |
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| Ingvix | I was afraid I had to also send my jolla for repair as it didn't recognise angle changes anymore but rebooting the phone did the trick | 17:31 |
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| Coolg33k | I sent it today for repair :( | 17:39 |
| Coolg33k | hope it will be back soon | 17:39 |
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| louis_ | ggabriel, yellow marks on the screen | 18:03 |
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| pdanek | TMavica: here please? | 19:00 |
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| FireFly | https://www.reddit.com/r/Jolla/comments/3velu5/i_got_a_refund_for_the_jolla_tablet_through_paypal/ hmm | 20:34 |
| FireFly | I can't see this helping with the state of affairs, heh | 20:34 |
| mornfall | well, it's inevitable | 20:34 |
| mornfall | igg backers don't qualify, there is a timeout | 20:35 |
| mornfall | the only thing that stands between jolla and a bank run kind of scenario is that there aren't many options for people to get refunds | 20:37 |
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| pdanek | for, those who ordered by paypal have to get refunds right? | 20:47 |
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| pdanek | the only way to avoid refunds for those is bankruptcy | 20:48 |
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| pdanek | so if all those 2000 people request refund, Jolla has to deal with it | 20:48 |
| fennekki | can you get the money back from indiegogo though | 20:50 |
| fennekki | if the payment is technically not for the product you were supposed to get you mightn't? | 20:50 |
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| louisdk | It'll be interesting to see if I can life with a dumpphone while my Jolla is in for repair :) | 21:00 |
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| phlixi_ | its actually pretty easy... | 21:15 |
| phlixi_ | ...if you backed IGG, then you either get a tablet, or nothing | 21:15 |
| phlixi_ | end of story, no refund whatsoever | 21:15 |
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| fennekki | Yeah I doubt IGG will require the provider to actually produce rewards in circumstances where it's unlikely that they can | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | not to mention that IGG probably took a cut, too | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | also | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | this is the preorder ones, not the IGG ones | 21:20 |
| phlixi_ | no fennekki, there are no doubts... | 21:20 |
| fennekki | Stskeeps: ah, okay | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | preorder ones are slightly more understandable | 21:20 |
| phlixi_ | IGG is like donation... | 21:21 |
| phlixi_ | what do you think the HK Jolla is for^^ | 21:21 |
| fennekki | well, preorders are obviously refundable? After all, they're orders and have to be fulfilled in a way that satisfies both parties. | 21:21 |
| fennekki | phlixi_: a Finnish corporation or individual may not ask for donations, so that presumably | 21:22 |
| fennekki | well, I'm not sure about corporations but individuals and non-registered-associations can't, as far as I recall | 21:22 |
| phlixi_ | preorders, of course, totaly different story... but in the end, i dont know when they where payed.. probably too long ago to get refund from paypal. i would expect them to refund no longer than 6 weeks ... but thats speculation now | 21:22 |
| fennekki | it's not even explicitly illegal it's just, you need a permit to do so and there is no way for these legal entities to acquire the permit | 21:22 |
| fennekki | phlixi_: they could still get a refund through way of suing, at least, because at least in Finland (and in the entire EU I believe) there are certain guarantees for purchases from companies | 21:23 |
| fennekki | that as far as I recall include actually receiving a product you order | 21:24 |
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| phlixi_ | i dont thikn that "they could still get a refund through way of suing" | 21:26 |
| coderus | note that igg company was registered to Jolla HK | 21:26 |
| phlixi_ | i dont know what it is called in english, in german "status" is the best you can get | 21:26 |
| coderus | so no problems with refunds | 21:26 |
| phlixi_ | that means a paper where is written on it "they ow you money"... but you will never get something, because they dont have it | 21:27 |
| coderus | im sure igg refunds will work straightforward | 21:27 |
| cehteh | if there is no product and no money left then you can sue as much as you like | 21:27 |
| phlixi_ | exactly | 21:27 |
| phlixi_ | so, long story short: either you get a tablet, or jolla dies and you get nothing... | 21:29 |
| fennekki | a company can be required to liquidate its assets to pay any outstanding debt, so I can't see why a lawsuit couldn't force them to pay refunds as well | 21:29 |
| fennekki | :P | 21:29 |
| fennekki | I mean | 21:29 |
| fennekki | if bankrupt | 21:29 |
| phlixi_ | yeah, and they do liquidate what? hot air? | 21:29 |
| fennekki | They're doing That Other Thing now as far as I can tell | 21:30 |
| fennekki | phlixi_: the management | 21:30 |
| fennekki | :D | 21:30 |
| fennekki | I don't know | 21:30 |
| * Stskeeps sighs | 21:30 | |
| phlixi_ | i prefer pork and beef over managers | 21:30 |
| cehteh | ... more interesting are there any signs of jolla surviving? | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | cehteh: lights are still on with a minimal team, according to last community meeting | 21:31 |
| fennekki | cehteh: well, they're not bankrupt? If they get more funding during the debt restructuring thing they might | 21:31 |
| phlixi_ | i havent investigated that, but i highly doubt that "jolla adventures" (is it called like that?) share more than the "jolla" in the name | 21:31 |
| tbr | stones, fresh stones! | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: i was going to offer pitchforks | 21:32 |
| cehteh | Stskeeps: good ho hear | 21:32 |
| cehteh | ok there is a new blogpost as well | 21:32 |
| fennekki | Anyway I've seen some companies survive debt restructuring, so! It's not, well, technically at least it's not a lost cause yet | 21:32 |
| phlixi_ | to not have the "black one" as top post any longer? | 21:33 |
| phlixi_ | :D | 21:33 |
| * tbr hands Stskeeps a packet of gravel | 21:33 | |
| fennekki | But they do seem in dire need of a lot of funding right now | 21:33 |
| tbr | "should be a good one" | 21:33 |
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| tbr | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkbqzWVHZI | 21:34 |
| tbr | actually this has the beginning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffwFXGPRDu4 | 21:35 |
| tbr | stooones! there may be some lying on the ground, but not quite like these! | 21:36 |
| tbr | "he said tablet, stone him!" | 21:36 |
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| Stskeeps | tbr: stone tablets? ;) | 21:40 |
| HtheB | did I hear tablet? | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | .. :P | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | obviously this is the future instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EwRmqzS3ys | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | a real good reason to wear bling | 21:42 |
| louisdk | What does this mean: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1490464&postcount=2447 ? Has he ordered a tablet in dec '15 or recently got a confirmation order from Jolla? | 21:43 |
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| HtheB | https://i.imgur.com/AdiBPrO.jpg | 21:44 |
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| louisdk | How would you compare SailfishOS 2.0 to Android 6 GUI wise? | 22:22 |
| Hartzi | sfos is more simple? | 22:27 |
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| phlixi_ | i think it is arguable... e.g. i think my mother would have a hard time with all the "invisible" stuff | 22:55 |
| phlixi_ | ...android/ios there is just buttons, you can see possible actions and tap them | 22:56 |
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| phlixi_ | including a homebutton that (almost) always taks you at home, where as sailfish you have to know to swype | 22:56 |
| phlixi_ | i think thats better, but not simpler | 22:56 |
| phlixi_ | oh, didnt notice louisdk left... | 22:57 |
| ln- | well, i don't think people (your mom's generation anyway) is born with the meaning of a homebutton encoded into their dna. | 22:58 |
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| phlixi_ | true, but that is actually something they learn pretty fast "if you do not know what to do, press this one button, and everything is back to normal" | 22:59 |
| phlixi_ | i remember giving my n9 to people, they where just stuck | 23:00 |
| phlixi_ | i just wanted to point out that "simpler" might not be that true... | 23:01 |
| phlixi_ | of course simpler in the sense of "less functions" :) | 23:01 |
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| ln- | i would like to conduct an experiment where an N9 was given to a person who has no previous experience on any smartphone. | 23:04 |
| phlixi_ | i did exactly that with my mother | 23:04 |
| phlixi_ | no chance to get anything done | 23:04 |
| phlixi_ | however, thats not better with other smartphones | 23:05 |
| ln- | maybe the real problem is touchscreens in general. | 23:07 |
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| tigeli | well, my mom managed taking the jolla-phone into use with minimal tutoring | 23:07 |
| tigeli | I don't know what exactly she does with it but at least she can use whatsapp | 23:07 |
| ln- | let's imagine the original iPhone without a touch screen. would it have been a success? | 23:10 |
| phlixi_ | a brick? | 23:11 |
| ln- | it is often argued that iPhone was so successful because it had a touch screen. | 23:12 |
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| tigeli | ln-: I bet it was something different than the touch screen itself as with 7 million pieces sold.. I would not say that it was a success as the nokia had 7 phones that year which sold each over 15 million pieces | 23:21 |
| tigeli | well.. it was a success for apple but compared to the other phones at the market, not really. | 23:22 |
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| phlixi_ | well, if you went to a store, you pretty much had a 50:50 chance to get a nokia, sony or whatever back then... | 23:28 |
| phlixi_ | for the new and pretty expensive iphone, you had to actually want one... | 23:29 |
| phlixi_ | compared to same style what nokia tried it was actually successfull | 23:30 |
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