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| Stskeeps | goood morning | 07:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| cfb014 | Good morning | 07:06 |
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| Stskeeps | neat: https://blog.jolla.com/road-sailfish-os-2-0/ | 07:25 |
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| cfb014 | Thank you for sharing | 07:36 |
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| locusf | why no twitter notification? | 07:40 |
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| locusf | well lol joona just tweeted it | 07:40 |
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| stephg | cool | 07:53 |
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| Nokius_work | :) | 08:25 |
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| citylight2 | as of yesterday, I see both phones are out of stock in the shop | 08:46 |
| citylight2 | so in fact jolla has closed shop for now? | 08:47 |
| Nicd- | they were out of stock before and then cam back again | 08:47 |
| Nicd- | came* | 08:47 |
| Nicd- | so don't take that as any indicator | 08:47 |
| pp_ | yup, obviously things may be slow | 08:47 |
| citylight2 | are they even offering the tablet in their shop? | 08:47 |
| Nicd- | no | 08:48 |
| pp_ | and you really want to use a credit card etc. and be sure you get your money back if it never ships | 08:48 |
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| Nicd- | obviously they are not selling tablets if they can't deliver the old ones either | 08:48 |
| citylight2 | I still think that if they would offer a battery, at almost any cost, I would order one | 08:49 |
| TemeV | citylight2: And I'm quite sure if they would offer a babbery at almost any cost that anyone is willing to pay, they would sell it with a loss | 08:50 |
| TemeV | *battery | 08:50 |
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| Scelt_ | https://blog.jolla.com/road-sailfish-os-2-0/ | 09:41 |
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| FireFly | Hmmmm, the thing that has changed the most is #busy indicators | 09:49 |
| Nicd- | errrrr | 09:52 |
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| Nicd- | http://insalgo.com/en/products/aidlab | 09:52 |
| Nicd- | "Aidlab changes your Jolla into medical phone. " | 09:52 |
| Tegu | o_O | 09:52 |
| Nicd- | "We expect to start sending devices in the mid 2016." | 09:52 |
| Nicd- | seems to be really bad timing for them :P | 09:53 |
| Hartzi | wtf | 09:53 |
| Hartzi | wtf is that | 09:53 |
| Tegu | it's a TOH | 09:53 |
| tbr | they posted on reddit... | 09:53 |
| Yaniel | that's a bold move | 09:53 |
| kimmoli | nice to see a commercial toh | 09:54 |
| tbr | and it's nothing new. Benefon anyone? (a finnish phone company no less!) | 09:54 |
| Tegu | the first commercial TOH! woo! | 09:54 |
| Tegu | ..slow | 09:54 |
| Nicd- | Hartzi: seems to be an OH that shows your temperature, ECG, PPG and oxygen level | 09:54 |
| Stskeeps | monitor your blood pressure while you wait angrily for your jolla tablet? | 09:54 |
| Tegu | :D | 09:54 |
| Tegu | still waiting on mid 2016 | 09:54 |
| Hartzi | hopefully they also sell the phone too :D otherwice thay have no market when release | 09:55 |
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| tbr | http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/benefon-track-makes-a-platform-for-vitaphones-new-cardiophone-service-introduced-at-the-medica-exhibition-in-dusseldorf-155747035.html | 09:55 |
| tbr | 2000! | 09:55 |
| Nicd- | $199 | 09:56 |
| Nicd- | that OH is pretty pricey | 09:56 |
| tbr | ToH before it was cool: https://86.img.avito.st/1280x960/477210586.jpg | 09:57 |
| kimmoli | :) | 09:59 |
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| Hartzi | Nicd-: TOH only? | 10:01 |
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| Nicd- | yes | 10:01 |
| Nicd- | it seems | 10:01 |
| sakustar | why do some people have cold hands | 10:02 |
| sakustar | if your fingers are used for measurements | 10:03 |
| pp_ | i'd guess bt dongle for ios and android would make much more money :( | 10:04 |
| Hartzi | Nicd-: toh + phone could have been reasonable price | 10:04 |
| tbr | it's a niche product, it has to be priced for low volume | 10:05 |
| tbr | even more so as there aren't that many jolla's anyway | 10:05 |
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| pp_ | then again, people with jollas will buy niche products for just about any amount :-) | 10:05 |
| Hartzi | tbr: yeah | 10:05 |
| pp_ | preorder too! | 10:05 |
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| tbr | I'd actually be surprised if they would make a profit at that price point | 10:06 |
| Hartzi | maybe it's not supposed to make big profits. Just a test product or something like that. | 10:07 |
| kimmoli | there is also glucose meter cover for iphone, in igg or kickstarter | 10:07 |
| Hartzi | kimmoli: same company? | 10:07 |
| kimmoli | iirc no | 10:07 |
| Hartzi | too bad they're making toh so late. | 10:09 |
| Hartzi | two years too late | 10:09 |
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| tortoisedoc | heh yeah | 10:10 |
| Yaniel | pp_: you make us sound like hipsters | 10:10 |
| tortoisedoc | well probably they got the idea just recently | 10:10 |
| sakustar | Yaniel: are you saying youre not a hipster | 10:22 |
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| tbr | any idea if a not responding camera module could be helped by a recovery? CSD on my friend's phone says "csd not responding" when testing the back camera, front works. | 13:29 |
| coderus | tbr: ping msameer probably | 13:33 |
| * tbr ponders if care still does RMA or if that also halted | 13:34 | |
| Stskeeps | tbr: dmesg? | 13:34 |
| tortoisedoc | tbr : some contact? Throw it against the wall? (joke) | 13:37 |
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| tbr | Stskeeps: I'll bring it up again, once I have it and had a look myself. He's currently traveling. | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 13:48 |
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| tbr | Stskeeps: http://www.mbsks.franken.de/tmp/dmesg.txt - he managed to get it out | 14:00 |
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| Stskeeps | nothing directly obvious.. | 14:01 |
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| louisdk | I really hope Jolla will make it. I really think we should contact every major IT company especially Digia. | 15:26 |
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| fedya | howdy | 15:30 |
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| fedya | Guys please explain me how Merproject connected with sailfishos? | 15:34 |
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| christoph_d | ohi! do I take https://github.com/urodoz/sailfish-runner/blob/master/docker/runner/runner-base/Dockerfile correct and a sailfish OS can run inside docker on plain linux? | 17:02 |
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| Nicd- | louisdk: we don't have the authority to contact other IT companies on behalf of Jolla | 17:09 |
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| tbr | christoph_d: looks like a docker for running on Sailfish. so the other way around. | 17:13 |
| tbr | christoph_d: you'd need to contact the author to inquire about things. looking at the readme could help too. | 17:14 |
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| christoph_d | the thing I'm really wondering is how much sailfish OS does depend on binder and other android-kernel-specifics | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | it doesn't, it's the drivers that does | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | as in, the ones matching the device | 17:16 |
| christoph_d | which doesn't matter if mainline linux does have the right drivers \o/ | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | well, this is userland crap | 17:18 |
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| rigo | Stskeeps: but hasn't jolla native drivers on their own hardware? | 17:28 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: no, sadly - i have a blog post somewhere about that problem | 17:28 |
| rigo | :(( | 17:28 |
| rigo | ok, everything done in a hurry... | 17:28 |
| Stskeeps | well, not even about a hurry | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | it was a pure necessit | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | y | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-hardware-adaptation-team-day-zero-bootstrapping/ | 17:30 |
| rigo | technical? | 17:30 |
| ggabriel | thank google | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: we tried the 'native drivers' game with ST-Ericsson as one of the few companies that still had them; they eventually bankrupted | 17:30 |
| christoph_d | well. noone could reasonably ask jolla to just fix up the vendor SOC support package themselves and mainline it | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | technical and organisational to some degree | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | christoph_d: some things were just beyond repair, too | 17:31 |
| * rigo is reading | 17:31 | |
| Stskeeps | IMHO, native drivers for mobile devices died with nokia | 17:31 |
| phlixi_o | at the same time the usual android fanboy praises the openess of android all the time | 17:33 |
| ggabriel | but but it is open source! | 17:33 |
| phlixi_o | kinda sad/tragic | 17:33 |
| ggabriel | i'm sure there's a trunk somewhere where you can commit stuff and it comes in the next version of android, right? | 17:33 |
| phlixi_o | and then "jolla crap not fully open source, get android, aosp!1111" | 17:33 |
| rigo | The key moment: "We do not have the capacity to write native Sailfish OS drivers for many parts of the devices." I had a different perception of the amount of control and the expertise in the jolla team | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: in practice the moment you start doing that, your workforce becomes, let's say, like nokia's did, OMAP-focused | 17:36 |
| rigo | and given that, it is amazing how fast SailfishOS still is, despite the overhead by android drivers | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | you have no idea how great it is to have stable, known working drivers for delivering a customer device | 17:36 |
| the_mgt | I think it is partly due to the "asian mentality". Even if they would release linux drivers for their hardware, they would be broken beyond usable. | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | the_mgt: heh, western is even just as bad | 17:36 |
| the_mgt | I have had years of frustration with VIA products | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | so we do what we're good at, core OS, UI and leave hardware drivers to the chipset vendor and ODM | 17:37 |
| the_mgt | I own two Epia boards and had a lenovo S12 netbook with fullblown via chipset, cpu and gpu, etc | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | wonder where i gave my epia board to.. | 17:37 |
| the_mgt | and even when via released drivers, they would only be working with one certain distro, and one random kernel. and only on a fullmoon on a february 29th | 17:38 |
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| rigo | Stskeeps: sure, but was it sufficient for the type of stuff you wanted to do? And was it fast enough? Your blog post was about opensource. 2 weeks ago I was at the ETSI summit telling them why their specs don't work with open source. I think the low layers are not for open source as there is no business model around it unless you're teh chip maker | 17:39 |
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| rigo | the chipmaker (like Intel) | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: basically part of our expertise is being able to leverage android drivers; which is working as we can generally use the same HAL interfaces on all platforms | 17:40 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: hardware adaptation is a nasty, nasty area for open source, still :/ | 17:40 |
| christoph_d | another question: is there a way to get at the sailfish OS emulator image without the IDE and other SDK stuff? | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | christoph_d: not atm | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | it's kinda boring without the SDK, too | 17:41 |
| rigo | Stskeeps: And I believe that the hardware drivers (even on SailfishOS) should not be open source, but cater to a well defined API | 17:42 |
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| Stskeeps | rigo: that they do; which we leverage | 17:42 |
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| rigo | Ha!, the rest, I don't care. I was only wondering about the performance of the android drivers vs nativ drivers | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | the best thing about android drivers is that they managed to get most BSPs out there to adhere to a similar API (https://source.android.com/devices/halref/dir_6b11132f1a015b03f2670f21bef1d871.html ) | 17:43 |
| rigo | native linux drivers | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | well, i don't know, but for wayland, it doesn't matter a lot | 17:43 |
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| Stskeeps | it matters more that we can trust the drivers to work | 17:43 |
| rigo | sure, if it works, ok. Problem is then, if you grow, the competition will alter the drivers to kill you | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | only by shooting themselves in the foot | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | it makes their life so much harder to not follow android HAL | 17:44 |
| rigo | for the moment, jolla is still under the radar, so no worries | 17:44 |
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| Stskeeps | ubuntu touch uses a similar method, too | 17:45 |
| rigo | Stskeeps: Android HAL will be changed so that it doesn't fit your needs anymore. That's what I mean | 17:45 |
| rigo | seen it too many times | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | that's naturally true, but you'd be surprised how many drivers rely on android acting exactly as it does :P | 17:45 |
| rigo | this is why we are in a monopoly situation where one actor controls too much, but doesn't use the controls at this very moment | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: generally unless android want to piss on every single chipset vendor, they don't toy with those parts :P | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | on.. or off, i guess both applies | 17:47 |
| phlixi_o | probably compareable to windows, on desktop, right? they have to build w9x support into nt, xp support for vista etc... and while the new driver model is new, the vendors have to support the old system as well... | 17:47 |
| rigo | so if jolla grows again, they have to take into account that they have to own their hardware platform at some point in time and budget for it | 17:47 |
| phlixi_o | thus there is time to adapt HAL | 17:47 |
| rigo | phlixi_o: not if they want to kill you | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: basically android relies on AOSP for chipsets to do their work | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | so those things have to be public | 17:49 |
| phlixi_o | if you think through this as if sailfish would work with xp drivers and it is 2005. you have now 10 years, to work with vista drivers | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | and the driver model is defined in AOSP | 17:49 |
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| Stskeeps | chipset vendors, that is | 17:49 |
| phlixi_o | the only thing to kill jolla via HAL is HAL2, which would a major issue for a lot more players than jolla is an issue | 17:50 |
| phlixi_o | that kinda makes not much sense | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | and in general what we leverage in android drivers is so essential for any basic operations with GPUs.. | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:51 |
| rigo | ok, maybe you're safe :) | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | given it a lot of thought | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:51 |
| phlixi_o | its like as if as a rabbit you care about getting killed by aliens... | 17:51 |
| phlixi_o | ...you probably will get eaten the next 10 minutes by someone, or poisened by some other | 17:52 |
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| phlixi_o | ...not saying jolla is a rabbit :D | 17:52 |
| phlixi_o | well, gn8 :-) | 17:53 |
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| pdanek | Has anyone seen TMavica recently? :D | 18:57 |
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| r0kk3rz | !seen TMavica | 18:58 |
| merbot | r0kk3rz: TMavica was last seen in #jollamobile 3 days, 3 hours, 40 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <TMavica> Will Jolla HK office move too? | 18:58 |
| r0kk3rz | merbot sees all | 18:59 |
| merbot | r0kk3rz: Error: "sees" is not a valid command. | 18:59 |
| pdanek | r0kk3rz: thanks! | 18:59 |
| pdanek | Are new phones usually announced or released on CES or on MWC? | 19:04 |
| rigo | merbot r0kk3rz? | 19:04 |
| merbot | rigo: Error: "r0kk3rz?" is not a valid command. | 19:04 |
| rigo | hm, doesn't remember people and naughty remarks... | 19:05 |
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| rigo | pdanek: that is one event where you would do such announcements. | 19:05 |
| rigo | to get sufficient attention | 19:06 |
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| pdanek | rigo: but which is more likely, CES or MWC? | 19:06 |
| pdanek | in general | 19:06 |
| rigo | MWC, definitely | 19:06 |
| pdanek | right | 19:06 |
| rigo | CES is for TVs :) | 19:06 |
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| phlixi_ | but ces is earlier | 19:25 |
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| pdanek | Time for Bob Ross. | 20:44 |
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| nander | Hi, I'm working with a friend on a yowsup to IRC conversion system | 21:56 |
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| nander | So you can run a server which connects to what'sapp for you and uses an IRC system for you to connect to | 21:57 |
| r0kk3rz | that sounds backwards | 21:58 |
| r0kk3rz | i can understand forwarding irc over whatsapp, but whatsapp over irc? | 22:00 |
| r0kk3rz | xmpp might be a better tech to use for that | 22:00 |
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| tbr | r0kk3rz: bitlbee has its use cases too | 22:01 |
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| tbr | also IRC rocks | 22:01 |
| r0kk3rz | it does, but its not amazing over unreliable connections such as mobile | 22:02 |
| r0kk3rz | which is what whatsapp is good for | 22:02 |
| tbr | mosh is | 22:02 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah which means you must use irssi | 22:03 |
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| tbr | or one of the other clients | 22:03 |
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| phlixi_ | so you want to make a whatsap transport and a bouncer | 22:34 |
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| nander | phlixi_: basically, yes | 22:55 |
| nander | And, combined with pushbullet support it works quite well | 22:55 |
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