| pdanek | nope | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| * sebsebseb has never flashed a phone, as in changed the OS on it | 00:00 | |
| pdanek | latest wouldn't be so well supported | 00:00 |
| pdanek | sebsebseb: shouldn't be too hard, tutorials everywhere | 00:00 |
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| pdanek | Stskeeps: maybe you'll get to work for Ubuntu Touch! | 00:01 |
| sebsebseb | yeah the Nexus 5 I guess can get second hand cheap from soewehre or something | 00:01 |
| sebsebseb | that's not on salae anymore via Googel I think? | 00:01 |
| sebsebseb | I would have got that like two eyars ago, but was out of stock then so ended up with a Samsung Gallaxy S3 Mini instead | 00:01 |
| sebsebseb | pdanek: yeah, but whre to get a NExus 5 anyway? | 00:02 |
| sebsebseb | if buying from Ebay it could be stolen or something realloy | 00:03 |
| sebsebseb | the MX 4 can also be flashed have another OS put on it, one of the Linux Voice guys was showing me breifulyl how it could be done the other month | 00:03 |
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| sebsebseb | last month even | 00:04 |
| sebsebseb | ,but to me my MX 4 is an Ubuntu Touch phone, so I don't really want to put another OS on it | 00:04 |
| sebsebseb | pdanek: if you don't have a BQ Ubuntu phone in response to earlier, I guess just wait untill a few months or so from now, the first BQ Ubuntu convergence phone should go for sale then | 00:05 |
| sebsebseb | or buy the current bqs if you want, and got money to spare | 00:05 |
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| pdanek | sebsebseb: nexus 5 should be OK price on ebay | 00:15 |
| pdanek | that's ultimate phones to try different OSes while being relatively good hardware | 00:16 |
| pdanek | phone* | 00:16 |
| sebsebseb | pdanek: I don't quite trust ebay | 00:16 |
| sebsebseb | since can end up buying stolen phones etc | 00:16 |
| sebsebseb | the ultimate phone? | 00:16 |
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| pdanek | sebsebseb: you could end up ya | 00:22 |
| pdanek | sebsebseb: but better not to know about it | 00:23 |
| pdanek | I really wish KDE Plasma Mobile will get successful | 00:23 |
| pdanek | since KDE Plasma Desktop is amazing | 00:23 |
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| sebsebseb | pdanek: yeah would be nice that, I just seen site about it etc, never tried | 00:24 |
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| * sebsebseb prefers GNOME 3 muh prefers :) | 00:24 | |
| sebsebseb | then Mate | 00:24 |
| * sebsebseb altough hasn't really played around with KDE 5 properly yet | 00:24 | |
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| sebsebseb | I much prefer GNOME 3 to KDE that is, and then Mate is my next choice :) | 00:25 |
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| pdanek | sebsebseb: I always used Gnome 2 | 00:26 |
| pdanek | Gnome 3, I tried few times and it's just... meh | 00:26 |
| pdanek | and I didn't like KDE4 | 00:26 |
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| pdanek | so until recent Plasma, I was unsatisfied with Linux desktop | 00:26 |
| sebsebseb | yeah I used GNOME 2 for ages mostly | 00:27 |
| sebsebseb | soemtiems other DE's such as KDE 3 | 00:27 |
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| sebsebseb | XFCE or LXDE wasn't quite it, so back to GNOME 2 | 00:27 |
| sebsebseb | yes I never liked KDE 4 either really | 00:27 |
| sebsebseb | just some of the KDEE apps but as a desktop uh no | 00:27 |
| sebsebseb | which is kind of funny since I got invovled with Mageia, a distribution that by many is seen as being mostly a KDE distro | 00:28 |
| pdanek | sebsebseb: you should give a try to KDE Plasma 5.4 | 00:28 |
| pdanek | it's way less buggy than 5.3 | 00:28 |
| pdanek | polished enough | 00:29 |
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| * sebsebseb is actually liking Unity much more these days to, and I mean the old Unity 7 on desktop Ubuntu, and Unity 8 on the phone has always been nice I find :) | 00:29 | |
| pdanek | OpenSUSE Leap is good | 00:29 |
| sebsebseb | pdanek: yeah I tried to insatll Kubuntu actsaully, but then it all just messed up | 00:29 |
| pdanek | sebsebseb: hmm.... so do you actualy find the UI of UT nice? | 00:29 |
| pdanek | I need to try | 00:29 |
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| sebsebseb | I stil need to put another two distros on this lap top realy | 00:30 |
| sebsebseb | I just haven't been bothered to | 00:30 |
| sebsebseb | since other focus | 00:30 |
| sebsebseb | also I am a bit uh since this issue I got with the UEFI | 00:30 |
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| sebsebseb | where nope Grub will not come up first | 00:31 |
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| sebsebseb | pdanek: yes I am very impressed with Ubuntu Phone | 00:31 |
| sebsebseb | for what it is | 00:32 |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu Touch even | 00:32 |
| pdanek | sebsebseb: did you find the UI better than Sailfish? | 00:32 |
| sebsebseb | Unity 8 on the phone just seems great really | 00:33 |
| sebsebseb | nice left hand bar, and standard phoney type stuff | 00:33 |
| sebsebseb | plus there are more and more apps coming to the app store for it now anyway | 00:33 |
| * sebsebseb waits for convergence, has already seen a basic demo | 00:33 | |
| sebsebseb | pdanek: I became an Ubuntu Phone fan this year, but I should use my Jolla phone more really | 00:33 |
| sebsebseb | and more properly | 00:33 |
| sebsebseb | really I had been wanting an Ubuntu Phone ever since I saw it run on Nexus on web cam | 00:33 |
| sebsebseb | pdanek: I haven't actsaully upgraded to my Jolla phone to Salifish OS 2.0 yet, so I can't comment about 2.0 | 00:33 |
| sebsebseb | however compared to 1.0, well they are both nice UI's but differnet | 00:34 |
| sebsebseb | Firefox OS is nice to the UI basic, but nice | 00:34 |
| sebsebseb | I got a FIrefox OS phone more recently to | 00:34 |
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| pdanek | sebsebseb: since KDE Plasma Mobile runs on top of Ubuntu Touch | 00:38 |
| pdanek | you can run all the Ubuntu Touch apps on it | 00:38 |
| pdanek | soon it might have android support | 00:38 |
| pdanek | I have high hopes for it | 00:39 |
| sebsebseb | pdanek: I think Ubuntu Touch is the one with most potential of becoming much more popular | 00:39 |
| sebsebseb | out of wel thes, Jolla/Salifsih, Tizen | 00:39 |
| sebsebseb | Firefox OS | 00:39 |
| sebsebseb | Cyanomod | 00:39 |
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| sebsebseb | Canonical has a chance at taking it more main streame | 00:40 |
| sebsebseb | or kind of thing | 00:40 |
| sebsebseb | ,but they may mess it up | 00:40 |
| sebsebseb | pdanek: also now with Ubuntu Phone it's like a repate of 2004/5 when I started with Linux | 00:40 |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu was not my first distro anyway | 00:40 |
| sebsebseb | the debate was if could give oseone not that tehnical Ubuntu or some distro like that, some would say yes, others would say no, and now is a repatae again with the Ubuntu Phones baially | 00:41 |
| sebsebseb | I think that a standard phone user who wants to text nad make a call maybe a little web browsing, b ut that doesnt' care much or at all about apps, then sure why not Ubuntu Touch is already fine :) | 00:41 |
| sebsebseb | so is Jolla I guess in that sense reallly | 00:41 |
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| pdanek | yep, that's right | 00:44 |
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| pdanek | Where does all the crazy money funded to Cyanogen go to? | 01:50 |
| pdanek | It's just Android ROM, they can't possibly use all the money, can they? | 01:50 |
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| jonwil | The amount of code in cyanogenmod that is new code and not just ripped from AOSP or the various stock firmwares for the various devices is surprising | 02:06 |
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| phlixi_ | pdanek: i think you underestimate the effort of software developement | 02:50 |
| pdanek | phlixi: they received another round funding of 70 million | 02:52 |
| pdanek | 70 million is a lot for just ROM | 02:52 |
| pdanek | Jolla survived on 10M to mantain complete OS | 02:52 |
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| coderus | Powermenu2 update: https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/powermenu-2 | 05:14 |
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| tbr | that's kinda neat, if I'd have the money to throw away. | 09:59 |
| tbr | http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Chuwi-Hi10-Dual-OS-Windows-10-Android-5-1-Tablet-PC-Intel-Cherry-Trai-Z8300-10/1818735_32468463380.html?spm=5261.7726059.0.36.7LhBVQ | 09:59 |
| tbr | I guess I'll have to find my exopc and see if I can resurrect it's x86 adaptation and try sailfish on that for a lovely slowwwwwwwww experience | 10:00 |
| locusf | heh cool :) | 10:02 |
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| minimec | tbr: This with sailfishOS ;) http://www.trustedreviews.com/lenovo-yoga-tab-3-pro-review | 10:20 |
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| tbr | minimec: if someone sends me one, I'd do the hw adaptation :) | 10:21 |
| minimec | tbr: Yeah... ;) | 10:22 |
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| locusf | is it pure? (non-hybris) | 10:54 |
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| * Stskeeps wouldn't buy a from the shop x86 tablet | 10:56 | |
| Tofe | Stskeeps: fear of locked bootloader ? :) | 10:56 |
| Stskeeps | Tofe: UEFI makes a grown man cry | 10:57 |
| Tofe | Ah, yes, that I'm not surprised | 10:57 |
| Tofe | It's like wine: always test (or taste) before buying | 10:58 |
| nh1402 | whats wrong with UEFI? | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | but also the customizations done to hw | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | ie it's likely that drivers are modded | 10:59 |
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| wmarone_ | UEFI is a beast that is bigger than it should be | 11:06 |
| tbr | just take off and nuke it from orbit to be sure and then land and replace it with U-Boot | 11:07 |
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| tbr | it just works | 11:07 |
| wmarone_ | caveat being that even ARM is pushing UEFI | 11:11 |
| tbr | ARM Ltd, but not the community | 11:12 |
| wmarone_ | as they move to a more x86 style system configuration, which is actually good for getting away from device-specific kernels | 11:12 |
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| tbr | that has nothing to do with UEFI but more with DT and ACPI | 11:13 |
| tbr | both work | 11:13 |
| wmarone_ | yes | 11:13 |
| wmarone_ | but vendors will only get support for it via UEFI | 11:14 |
| tbr | if you are talking about servers | 11:14 |
| wmarone_ | or mobile devices | 11:14 |
| tbr | I don't see UEFI on ARM outside the server space | 11:14 |
| wmarone_ | every Windows phone device ships with it | 11:14 |
| wmarone_ | newer Nexus devices are as well, IIRC | 11:14 |
| tbr | so far what I see is that UEFI takes ages on AArgh64 boards to materialize, while U-Boot ports take literally days | 11:16 |
| tbr | And that's for Linaro pushed things | 11:16 |
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| nh1402 | you would rather use a 40 year old BIOS system, than UEFI? | 11:24 |
| * tbr hasn't mentioned BIOS anywhere | 11:25 | |
| Stskeeps | "New startup aims to transfer people's consciousness into artificial bodies so they can live forever" | 11:25 |
| Stskeeps | well, at least they're not crowdfunding | 11:25 |
| tbr | any mentions of soylent green in that context? | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | "After death, the company will cryogenically freeze members’ brains until the technology is fully developed, at which point the brains will be implanted into an artificial body." | 11:26 |
| tbr | rrrrrright | 11:26 |
| tbr | inb4 "Head Museum" | 11:26 |
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| nh1402 | sounds like someone got obsessed with the Self/Less film | 11:27 |
| nh1402 | like, really obsessed | 11:27 |
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| nadriel | tbr: Gives a new meaning for "head manager" | 12:03 |
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| * tbr was referring to the Futurama thing, btw | 12:05 | |
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| nh1402 | tbr: I know. | 12:07 |
| tbr | :) | 12:07 |
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| Morpog | fastboot devices sees my Jolla tablet, now it just needs a flashable zip :) | 12:14 |
| Stskeeps | oh god, if it only was that easy | 12:15 |
| Morpog | btw, was it intentionally to leave the factory image on the tablet? | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | else how can it factory reset? | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | having it seperate from fs is good | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | oh right, you actually got it | 12:16 |
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| Stskeeps | we learnt that in jolla1 days that factory image as part of main fs was a horrible, horrible idea : | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | :) | 12:17 |
| Morpog | forgot there is no btrfs on this ;) | 12:18 |
| coderus | no qualcomm = no btrfs :) | 12:18 |
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| coderus | peace world | 12:18 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: should have used ZFS! ;) | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: i would if i could have rationalized it license wise | 12:19 |
| coderus | tbr: oh no, there is more better fs than zfs, isnt it? | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: using zfs extensively myself | 12:19 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: yeah, licensing is... | 12:19 |
| tbr | I'm tempted to use ZoL for some storage applications | 12:20 |
| coderus | or just provide some "community" way to reformat in different fs :D | 12:20 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: I hope my mail on the dev list didn't rub people the wrong way. | 12:21 |
| * tbr checks inbox. still no death threats, so probably not. | 12:22 | |
| ggabriel | isn't zfs a bit too much for embedded? | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: i no longer represent jolla, so i'm not one at least | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | time to go smear some shit on the internet.. | 12:23 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:23 |
| tbr | lol | 12:23 |
| ortylp | Stskeeps: :D | 12:23 |
| ggabriel | tbr: you responding to that meeting minutes thread? | 12:23 |
| kimmoli | waits recovery image being in ipfs | 12:23 |
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| Yaniel | is xmpp supposed to work on 2.0.0.10? | 12:23 |
| ggabriel | Yaniel: works for me for gtalk, although google is funny with auth these days | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | kimmoli: makes me wonder when the first android roms will be hosted in ipfs | 12:24 |
| Yaniel | trying with the slack xmpp gateway and but no luck so far | 12:24 |
| ortylp | Yaniel: xmpp has worked from the very beginning | 12:24 |
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| tbr | ggabriel: yea | 12:25 |
| ggabriel | tbr: you're brave :) | 12:25 |
| kimmoli | Stskeeps: multiboot from ipfs? | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | in fact, i'd welcome ipfs roms, compared to 'download from shady file sharing site' | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | not to mention you get the hash you wanted | 12:26 |
| tbr | ggabriel: I don't really follow that lits, but happened to check and the statements in that thread were just too far out | 12:26 |
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| sharix | Ahoi, any sofiasip/mc-tool experts arround? | 12:59 |
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| tbr | sharix: what's your problem? | 13:08 |
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| sharix | tbr: Thanks, multipe ;-) Gettig the big pictoure for making SIP possible, Currently I get dorpped calls after answering becaus SDP response hast audio port set to 'o'. Also, mc-tool downs't work here on 2.0.0.10 | 13:10 |
| tbr | sharix: keep in mind, that SIP is still officially broken. I'm not sure how far you can get on 2.0 | 13:11 |
| sharix | tbr: I read that answering calls at leas should work. Usually I can help myself with little coding, but I don't know any of the telepathy/rakia/sofiasip nesting :-( How does the JP dial app attach to these components? | 13:13 |
| tbr | hmm my testing-phone is still on 1.1.9 - time to upgrade that and retest current state of SIP | 13:13 |
| locusf | did you try the official package? | 13:13 |
| tbr | yeah, there should be an accounts UI for SIP | 13:14 |
| * tbr needs to try it after his device is done with the 2.0 dance, currently doing the intermediate upgrade | 13:14 | |
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| sharix | Yes, the jolla-accounts-settings-sip extension is installed and some settings work, but not all. That's why I wanted to check out mc-toos, but they just report "Failed to connect to D-Bus: Using X11 for dbus-daemon autolaunch was disabled at compile time, set your DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS instead" | 13:17 |
| tbr | executing that as nemo? | 13:18 |
| sharix | tbr: *doh*, yu're right of course. Took the wrong session.... | 13:19 |
| sharix | tbr: thanks, will play with mc-tool, but I guess I need to get more D-Bus understanding first... Always avoided that :-( (on FreeBSD) | 13:22 |
| tbr | no need to for SIP | 13:23 |
| sharix | I thougth all that rakia/telepathy communication goes vir Dbsu? | 13:23 |
| sharix | D-Bus? | 13:23 |
| tbr | sure, but you don't have to speak d-bus yourself. that's what e.g. mc-tool and the telephony UI are for | 13:24 |
| sharix | What is the tlepathy-UI? | 13:24 |
| tbr | the dialer application | 13:24 |
| tbr | no idea if that got fixed | 13:25 |
| tbr | it used to crash and burn on SIP call disconnect | 13:25 |
| sharix | Ah, ic. The I'd have to hack the dialaer application to make it speaking to arkia, theoretically. Thus needing to know something about D-Bus :-( | 13:25 |
| sharix | Or is the dailer app clsed source? | 13:26 |
| tbr | the dialer is proprietary | 13:30 |
| tbr | there is an older open source drop in replacement | 13:30 |
| tbr | I've used the Nemo dialer to verify that SIP calls can be made | 13:30 |
| sharix | Great to know. Do you know how it's pakacge is called? | 13:31 |
| sharix | voicecall-ui-reference | 13:32 |
| sharix | ? | 13:32 |
| tbr | don't remember, might be | 13:33 |
| tbr | or qmlsomething | 13:33 |
| sharix | Thanks, at least I know that hacking JP-dialer isn't an option. And I will try to continue with the nemo dialer. But probably next year. Spent much to much time trying to get the JP doing it's very basic job ;-( | 13:36 |
| tbr | meh, SIP settings foo wasn't rebuilt for the jolla-settings-accounts-extensions version in 2.0 | 13:37 |
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| tbr | oh well. mc-tool time, I know how to do that | 13:40 |
| locusf | oh yeah glacier dialer should be finished up too | 13:40 |
| sharix | tbr: jolla-settings-accounts-extensions only depends on telepathy-rakia-0.7.4+git1-1.2.5.armv7hl ? | 13:41 |
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| tbr | locusf: I hope it will be accounts aware :) | 13:42 |
| locusf | tbr: I should make it first ... :p | 13:42 |
| tbr | sharix: no idea | 13:42 |
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| sharix | The UI is useless for me, the auth-username always get's stripped from the account name, regardless if "extra authentication user name" was set. I don't hav an idea what that should be good for. But my auth-username is different from the account LHS... | 13:44 |
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| sharix | Sorry, another question: Thought mc-tool is a tool for libaccounts-glib. But it lists only telepathy-based accounts!? Are therer CLI-tools bfor avery account type? | 13:54 |
| tbr | don't think so | 13:54 |
| tbr | mc-tool is telepathy only | 13:55 |
| sharix | OMG, I still don't get the idea :-( Will have to learn a lot... | 13:55 |
| sharix | Ok, there's ag-tool :-) | 13:57 |
| tbr | :) | 13:57 |
| sharix | OMG, and again, passwords in clear: | 14:00 |
| sharix | ag-tool list-settings 27 | 14:00 |
| sharix | default_credentials_username = 74@pbx.mydomain.net | 14:00 |
| sharix | Jolla/segregated_credentials/Jolla = 25 | 14:00 |
| sharix | CredentialsId = 25 | 14:00 |
| sharix | enabled = true | 14:00 |
| sharix | name = 74@pbx.mydomain.net | 14:00 |
| sharix | sip | 14:00 |
| sharix | telepathy/NormalizedName = sip:74@pbx.mydomain.net | 14:00 |
| sharix | telepathy/manager = sofiasip | 14:00 |
| sharix | CredentialsId = 25 | 14:00 |
| sharix | telepathy/AutomaticPresence = 0;;; | 14:00 |
| sharix | telepathy/param-extra-auth-passowrd = cleartext | 14:00 |
| sharix | telepathy/param-keepalive-interval = 0 | 14:00 |
| sharix | telepathy/param-local-port = 5060 | 14:00 |
| sharix | telepathy/param-account = 74@pbx.mydomain.net | 14:00 |
| sharix | telepathy/param-resource = Jolla | 14:00 |
| sharix | auth/method = password | 14:01 |
| sharix | telepathy/protocol = sip | 14:01 |
| sharix | telepathy/param-extra-auth-user = user@device | 14:01 |
| sharix | telepathy/Nickname = 74@pbx.mydomain.net | 14:01 |
| sharix | enabled = true | 14:01 |
| sharix | telepathy/ConnectAutomatically = true | 14:01 |
| sharix | auth/mechanism = password | 14:01 |
| sharix | telepathy/HasBeenOnline = true | 14:01 |
| sharix | telepathy/mc-account-name = sofiasip/sip/sip_27 | 14:01 |
| sharix | ~ | 14:01 |
| Lieke_ | pastebin please... | 14:01 |
| sharix | *Sorry* | 14:01 |
| tbr | damn this one still looks cute: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Onda-V820w-CH-Intel-Cherry-Trail-Atom-X5-Z8300-8-inch-1280-800-IPS-Screen-Windows/32500149171.html | 14:05 |
| tbr | if only I could be sure that I'll get UEFI to boot what I want | 14:06 |
| sharix | tbr: Intel get's EFI to boot what Intel wants!!! | 14:06 |
| sharix | ;-)= | 14:07 |
| tbr | the embedded things can have quite a customized Tianocore UEFI | 14:07 |
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| tbr | also getting the display and some of the other hardware to work under linux might be "fun" | 14:08 |
| sharix | A friend an me wanted to start hacking on (U)EFI, but SMM and time contraints don't allow :-( | 14:08 |
| sharix | Bty. I checked the JP becaus I need a present for my wife (S60v5). Always have to tell her: No, sorry, Puh won't live on your phony | 14:09 |
| tbr | get a minnowboard max. all the haxx0ring you can possibly want is possible and it's easy to recover with a SPI programmer | 14:09 |
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| sharix | Maybe Lumia 550 will be an option, what do you think? | 14:10 |
| tbr | no idea | 14:10 |
| sharix | minnowboard, can't remeber ever having had a look on it. Thanks, will check | 14:10 |
| tbr | get the Turbot version | 14:10 |
| tbr | it's got 3.3V SPI EEPROM, easier to deal with than the 1.8V on the original max | 14:11 |
| sharix | Ok, it's just a new name :-) | 14:11 |
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| sharix | Thanks for the hint! But we buried that project :-( Would be my absolute favourite hobby project, but no time for hobby :-( | 14:13 |
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| * kimmoli blames tbr | 14:15 | |
| Stskeeps | tbr: i think teclast x98 is one of the more hackable | 14:16 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: just found out that those things seem to ship 32bit UEFI because of some windows crap bug | 14:18 |
| Stskeeps | ugh | 14:18 |
| Stskeeps | at least the uefi on the er, rare, jolla tablet, has a 64bit uefi | 14:18 |
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| tbr | http://www.ondaforum.com/topic/3103-linux-graphics-wifi-touchscreen-acclerometer-drivers-for-v820w/ | 14:19 |
| tbr | someone got something working | 14:20 |
| tbr | wonder if 64bit | 14:20 |
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| HtheB | coderus: thnx | 14:37 |
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| Venemo | have you guys seen this thread? https://together.jolla.com/question/123255/issue-1-jolla-survival-plan-failure-is-not-an-option/ | 15:36 |
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| tbr | gee, such misconception, much fud, no understanding, wow | 15:52 |
| SQUelcher | tbr: good doge! | 15:55 |
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| tbr | w00f! | 15:55 |
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| entil | "Partner up with Nokia and sell them Sailfish OS as a 3rd option." whoah, that's why I didn't get rich with the startup, I didn't just unilaterally decide on partnerships with big players :O | 16:26 |
| entil | man I wish someone told me I can just partner up with someone | 16:26 |
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| cehteh | haha | 16:33 |
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| sebsebseb | hi | 16:56 |
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| Mikaela | Is anyone using WeeChat Android? Are you able to get notification sounds and if yes, how did you get them? | 17:55 |
| Venemo | tbr: at least they are trying to think positively | 17:56 |
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| tbr | Venemo: sure, I just don't see any sense in the small scale ideas. | 17:56 |
| Venemo | tbr: me either, unfortunately | 17:57 |
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| tbr | I'm hoping they get their funding somehow, not much more to do | 17:59 |
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| ggabriel | uhm... caldav has gone a long way since the last time I was paying attention | 18:03 |
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