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| temmi_hoo | so okay i finally got bored of not updating and took a look into why no updates | 09:00 |
|---|---|---|
| temmi_hoo | turns out my jolla has completely forgotten my accounts | 09:01 |
| temmi_hoo | maybe it's because of the perfect filesystem or something else | 09:01 |
| temmi_hoo | in some secret and nonintuitive way i've still received email from gmail account even though the account settings tell me there is no username and password | 09:02 |
| tbr | yes, accounts-sso is that way. it will randomly shredder some part of your authentication data | 09:06 |
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| tbr | yet still some other part will remain and work, just to spite and confuse you | 09:06 |
| entil | I was not logged into owncloud when I restarted the phone, wonder if there's a setting somewhere to remember my password | 09:07 |
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| temmi_hoo | what is accounts-sso? | 09:10 |
| temmi_hoo | dunno what really happened in the technical details under the hood | 09:10 |
| temmi_hoo | i'm not a sailfish programmer and would rather not be, i just like the ui design principles and can tolerate some amount of notworkingness | 09:11 |
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| Shihua_ | Is there something about jolla2? | 09:12 |
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| cb400f | prolly need the dust to settle for the Intex, tablet and company split (software and hardware), before anything major happens | 09:14 |
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| Shihua_ | Wouldn't have jolla2? | 09:15 |
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| cb400f | it'll be up to the new hardware company to create future Jolla devices. And they'd better have a new product ready by the time my Jolla breaks down ;-) | 09:18 |
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| cb400f | since it's unclear if the intex will be good build quality, accessible and usable in europe etc. | 09:19 |
| Shihua_ | er,ok. I can just wait.= . = | 09:19 |
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| caitlinb | oh wow, a V2 is being offered to my jolla hole. this is vexing for two reasons, i was promised a v2 in the box, which is why they delayed shipment (just politics, laid here for the “lol, what scamps” vote) and the other being upgrade terror. | 10:24 |
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| caitlinb | it’s enjoyably nerve wracking, having a jolla :D | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | good | 10:25 |
| * ggabriel wonders what a jolla hole is | 10:25 | |
| caitlinb | “phone” | 10:25 |
| caitlinb | all things are holes | 10:25 |
| caitlinb | usb holes, etherweb holes | 10:25 |
| caitlinb | interholes | 10:25 |
| caitlinb | door holes | 10:25 |
| ggabriel | caitlinb: so you bought a phone recently? | 10:25 |
| caitlinb | it’s a versatile concept | 10:25 |
| caitlinb | yeh, last month or so | 10:26 |
| ggabriel | i think i'm getting your drift | 10:26 |
| ggabriel | oh, cool, so they are delivering then | 10:26 |
| caitlinb | that’s why i’m so “buh” and “squee” at the same time | 10:26 |
| * cb400f checks for updates | 10:26 | |
| caitlinb | yeh, they were showing in and out of stock semi randomly, and when i ordered there was a delay of maybe a month | 10:26 |
| ggabriel | yeah, for the 2.0 reason | 10:26 |
| caitlinb | they emailed to say “you can have one in two weeks, it will have V2 on it, sorry for wait" | 10:26 |
| caitlinb | yeh, but it didn’t have 2.0 when it arrived | 10:27 |
| caitlinb | they probably found one in a cupboard and posted it | 10:27 |
| cb400f | v2 is two phase rocket | 10:27 |
| caitlinb | or it’s a recon ot some shit | 10:27 |
| cb400f | we're all still waiting for the final bits... at least us non-early access folks | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | cb400f: 2.0.0 full came out now afaik | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | for non-aerly access | 10:28 |
| cb400f | update available!!1! | 10:28 |
| ggabriel | i updated yesterday (GA) without a glitch | 10:28 |
| ggabriel | and i have to say i like the settings thingy in the events view | 10:28 |
| ggabriel | it lacks a bit of versatibility (spelling? is that even a word?) | 10:29 |
| Smar | any updates over early access version? | 10:29 |
| ggabriel | but i like it | 10:29 |
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| Smar | versatility? | 10:29 |
| ggabriel | Smar: probably | 10:29 |
| entil | annoying detail, but I had to allow untrusted software on my tablet, because extra search engines are not welcome in the browser, but there are none available in the store | 10:29 |
| ggabriel | well, that's life | 10:30 |
| entil | probably not worth spamming tjc | 10:30 |
| ggabriel | not really | 10:30 |
| ggabriel | or maybe ask for it to be made official in the store, that's a fair request | 10:30 |
| Smar | entil: you could do ultra-quick-qtwebkit-browser ;) | 10:30 |
| entil | Smar: I don't know what that is | 10:30 |
| Smar | entil: QWebView | 10:30 |
| ggabriel | qtwebkit kept crashing lipstick in the previous version | 10:30 |
| entil | Smar: oh, you mean like write my own? | 10:31 |
| entil | that'd be the worst zfg-driven project ever | 10:31 |
| Smar | entil: yeap | 10:31 |
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| Smar | entil: well, it’s ultra quick unless you want some funny features :D | 10:31 |
| entil | and I doubt I should ask about this on tjc, because I'm sure the sailors have better things to do than ping coderus and ask him to submit his rpm from openrepos to store qa | 10:31 |
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| ggabriel | entil: nah, nothing is worthless, at worst it can be in the backlog | 10:32 |
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| Yaniel | fwiw they would rather write their own patch | 10:32 |
| entil | Yaniel: there was a closed github issue saying that there will be no patch | 10:32 |
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| cb400f | ggabriel: how do you add settings thingies to events? | 11:24 |
| cb400f | hmm.. this 3 megs update I installed wasn't 2.0.0.10.. I'll do the full update now, sorry | 11:26 |
| ggabriel | cb400f: settings -> events | 11:26 |
| ggabriel | (I think) | 11:26 |
| cb400f | prolly so, I guess I can find it, once I actually install the correct update | 11:26 |
| ggabriel | what you can add is predefined though "a la" android | 11:27 |
| ggabriel | :) | 11:27 |
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| coderus | entil: oh, enabling untrusted software is something bad for you? :D | 11:45 |
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| cb400f | yep, actually installing 2.0 did help a lot | 11:52 |
| * cb400f likes | 11:52 | |
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| caitlinb | do you get emoji in 2.0? or is there something i need to install to get rid of all the little rectangles with crosses in them in tweetian? | 11:59 |
| caitlinb | i could try and fix them now, but no point if i’ll get them in 2.0 | 11:59 |
| cb400f | I don't use twitter, but I don't get emojis in text messages still | 12:01 |
| stephg | caitlinb: you'll need to install the emoji charsets from openrepos | 12:01 |
| cb400f | didn't see any mention of that in the announcement either, so didn't expect any change | 12:01 |
| cb400f | why o why isn't that submitted to Jolla Market? | 12:03 |
| caitlinb | https://openrepos.net/content/penguin/emoji-keyboard that? | 12:09 |
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| stephg | caitlinb: yeah I think the fonts come with that | 12:16 |
| caitlinb | can’t find the fonts alone :/ | 12:17 |
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| phlixi | Hi, according to https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Platforms/Android without Google Playstore I should get my Firefox from http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mobile/releases/latest-beta/ (if I can choose, i take the Beta over the release...) there is a dir "android-api-9" and "android-api-11", which one should i choose for the Jolla? I know that I do not want "android-x86" nor "source" :-) | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | you can for sure take -11 or above | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | -11 is 4.0.3, runtime is at 4.1.2 on phone | 12:28 |
| phlixi | thanks | 12:29 |
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| merlin1991 | so now that I'm on 2.x and the feeds are back, any chance of telling the facebook feed "i've read that" | 12:44 |
| merlin1991 | it's boring to scroll down all the way to twitter all the time | 12:44 |
| chem|st | merlin1991: longtap X? | 12:45 |
| merlin1991 | they came back after I did that ... | 12:46 |
| merlin1991 | + it's not exactly convenient compared to how other notfiications go away ... | 12:47 |
| merlin1991 | ah wait | 12:48 |
| merlin1991 | I think I had it backwards | 12:48 |
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| Tofe | next meeting delayed _again_... | 14:08 |
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| Tofe | From a communication point of view, it really looks like Jolla doesn't want to address about that open-source planning topic. Which doesn't even need to be a discussion, a simple statement is mostly what is expected. | 14:16 |
| ggabriel | Tofe: a simple statement can be "not now", but then most people will be unhappy with it, so if the delay is because of that then I think it's a good thing that they're thinking about it | 14:17 |
| ggabriel | ofc the delay could be for other reasons | 14:17 |
| Tofe | "not now" isn't incompatible with a planning, even a rough one | 14:19 |
| ggabriel | I guess I mean "not now" over and out | 14:19 |
| ggabriel | chances are that it's going to be "not now" but ideally you want a kind of roadmap | 14:19 |
| TemeV | It has been "not now" for a few years now, I don't see it would have changed recently | 14:20 |
| Tofe | They recently said they had plans about it | 14:20 |
| Tofe | Otherwise that topic wouldn't even have been proposed for a meeting, I think | 14:21 |
| ggabriel | well, the community has been asking for this for a while now | 14:21 |
| ggabriel | and jolla made some comments earlier this year, so it's expected | 14:21 |
| ggabriel | i'm assuming that dealing with tablet delays trumps dealing with open source planning though | 14:22 |
| TemeV | I think their plan has always been to open source "when the time is right" | 14:22 |
| ggabriel | true | 14:22 |
| flux | I hope the time is before they are bankrupt :P | 14:22 |
| Tofe | nope, they also associated 2.0 with more open-sourcing, this is a change | 14:22 |
| tadzik | they, or the hype train did? | 14:23 |
| Yaniel | or before people are too angry to care | 14:23 |
| ggabriel | i remember what Tofe mentioned | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | Tofe: things don't always go like in the movies | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | we're still working very hard on the topic but when there's other fires, bandwidth goes to the fire | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | company bandwidth, that is | 14:24 |
| Tofe | Stskeeps: I'd have said "like in the original plans", but sure | 14:26 |
| Stskeeps | there's good things going on, such as now that our GPL compliance is 95% automated, the mer-nemo merge is looking really good, despite gitlab making it difficult | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | and well, 2.0 out | 14:27 |
| Tofe | Well, that kind of simple sentences is what was missing the last couple of months. That the topic isn't forgotten. That other things got more prioritized. I may seem quite useless, but it's not | 14:27 |
| Tofe | it* | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | also another silly problem that the meetings are at a time when i really can't be at a computer, as i'm taking care of my son at that time :) | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | and i'm one of the only person who's an authority on this topic in jolla | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | open source can't be dealt with with prepared statements :) | 14:28 |
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| Tofe | :) | 14:29 |
| ggabriel | Tofe: I think you're too nice... I expect a lot of people to get pissed off if you tell them "we're still working on it, just hang on" and will say silly things like "just commit everything to github and leave it there" | 14:29 |
| ggabriel | Stskeeps: looking after your son? surely you mean training your son to take over... :) | 14:30 |
| Tofe | ggabriel: well, I know it doesn't work like that :) | 14:31 |
| Tofe | ggabriel: that sounded lke star wars :) | 14:32 |
| ggabriel | hehe | 14:32 |
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| tbr | ggabriel / Tofe - many people have simply lost patience and left with a *fliptable.jpeg* or "fuck this intransparent shit". so jolla playing surprised again and again and stalling the hell out of this is pretty meaningless at this point. | 14:46 |
| tbr | I for one merely am here, on the sidelines, watching the train run. | 14:46 |
| jonwil | Stskeeps: Its great to see a company where GPL compliance isn't something that only happens after a few project maintainers (kernel devs, busybox devs, whoever else) start throwing some weight (and threats of legal action) around and even then only happens begrudgingly | 14:46 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: well, tbr has been a good help to push my ass into gear though, we haven't been angles in that area | 14:47 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: excuse my french, but then it's your fucking job to make sure that a meeting would be scheduled to a) a time when you're not traveling b) generally available | 14:47 |
| ggabriel | best if we speak in english then..... | 14:48 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: anything after 4pm polish is impossible for me, which is also when people are generally available. | 14:48 |
| tbr | jonwil: the first few gpl releases were me snail-mailing jolla and receiving a DVD in return, after repeated prodding | 14:48 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: don't tell that to me. I have long given up on the farce that those meetings are. Tell it to the jolla representatives running the show for those meetings. | 14:49 |
| * Stskeeps sighs | 14:49 | |
| ggabriel | tbr: do you remember how the time for those meetings was agreed? | 14:50 |
| tbr | ggabriel: it's always at the end of the meeting | 14:50 |
| ggabriel | no, i mean initially | 14:50 |
| ggabriel | the first meetings | 14:50 |
| ggabriel | emails must still be available | 14:50 |
| ggabriel | and the time was set for most people | 14:51 |
| tbr | ggabriel: I should know. I organized the first few, sort of. I think it was a general consensus and then discussion and agreement during first meeting. | 14:51 |
| * jonwil will never understand why getting embedded vendors ( to comply with open source licenses is so hard | 14:51 | |
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| * Stskeeps needs to head off | 14:51 | |
| tbr | ggabriel: we also tried _back_ _then_ to be very inclusive and accomodate various timezones | 14:51 |
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| ggabriel | ok, so you do remember | 14:51 |
| ggabriel | and yet, some people couldn't make it | 14:51 |
| ggabriel | so it's ok if some individuals can't make it and you won't reschedule a meeting just for one | 14:52 |
| tbr | jonwil: because lawyers | 14:52 |
| tbr | ggabriel: in this case it's about Stskeeps being the *official* and *empowered* representative of Jolla the company to be speaking on their behalf and discussing a topic. If he can't attend, that's kind of a problem. | 14:53 |
| ggabriel | tbr: 2 solutions: 1. make "ad hoc" meeting with a sensible quorum; 2. make the communication process longer by proxying information to Stskeeps | 14:54 |
| ggabriel | mayb ethere are more solutions | 14:54 |
| ggabriel | but they're easy to discuss in the meeting itself | 14:54 |
| tbr | ggabriel: I'm the wrong person to discuss this with. I'm a mere bystander who sometimes feels compelled to make snarky and harsh comments. | 14:54 |
| ggabriel | got it | 14:55 |
| ggabriel | i'm just throwing ideas also, but don't attend the meetings | 14:55 |
| tbr | there are many ways to discuss a different meeting time | 14:55 |
| tbr | there is the TJC item, the mailing list and several IRC channels | 14:55 |
| tbr | the fact that jolla the company can't be arsed to care enough about their community might just have something to do with this | 14:56 |
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| jonwil | tbr: I think the whole situation surrounding the Samsung ExFAT driver is the perfect example of why open source license compliance is hard even for the biggest and best companies. Samsung was caught between a rock and a hard place on this (or rather the GPL license of the kernel code they modified and the NDAs from Microsoft surrounding the ExFAT filesystem) | 15:06 |
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| cehteh | .. and disabling usb storage device support on their device, who needs exfat then | 15:19 |
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| cehteh | btw since the n900 days i am wondering if one could build a 'virtual' fat server, acting like a usb storage device with a fat filesystem, but is just a software layer to access any other underlying filesystem | 15:22 |
| cehteh | → MTP sucks hard, even more than fat | 15:22 |
| ggabriel | well, it's just software (tm) | 15:22 |
| ggabriel | and that idea has been mentioned ages ago in tjc | 15:22 |
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| cehteh | anyone working on that? | 15:23 |
| ggabriel | sshfs is far simpler though | 15:23 |
| ggabriel | not that i know of | 15:23 |
| cehteh | yeah i'd go for sshfs as well | 15:23 |
| cehteh | but would be nice to have some easy univeral interface at usb speeds | 15:24 |
| ggabriel | i don't think many people use the phone as a mass storage device anyway, and the ones who do are tech savvy enough to use sshfs | 15:24 |
| cehteh | mtp is like someone .. mhm .. apes? .. well .. lets say some accident | 15:24 |
| cehteh | its pita everywhere | 15:25 |
| ggabriel | it isn't easy | 15:25 |
| ggabriel | remember the n9? | 15:25 |
| cehteh | never had one | 15:25 |
| ggabriel | right | 15:25 |
| ggabriel | you could use mass storage, but it required /home/something to be vfat and also some applications didn't work while connected to usb | 15:26 |
| ggabriel | so that was pretty awful too | 15:26 |
| cehteh | mtp is just a can of worms .. overengineered and still lacking the most simple things | 15:26 |
| ggabriel | yup, sshfs ftw | 15:26 |
| cehteh | yeah | 15:26 |
| cehteh | or rsync | 15:26 |
| ggabriel | btw, you can use sshfs over usb iirc | 15:28 |
| tbr | or run NFS or samba | 15:28 |
| tbr | I built some ancient samba once, for kicks, it worked just fine | 15:29 |
| cehteh | sshfs over usb needs usb networking setup which is somewhat pita too .. PPP or what do you use there? | 15:30 |
| ggabriel | cehteh: that's correct, I think I used it once and worked just fine | 15:31 |
| ggabriel | didn't use pp | 15:31 |
| ggabriel | +p | 15:31 |
| ggabriel | just usbnet | 15:31 |
| ggabriel | ifconfig -a returns usb0 and voila (with the right kernel module) | 15:31 |
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| HtheB | tigeli: seems like TeamViewer problems has been solved with the newest version of TeamViewer | 19:37 |
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| coderus | HtheB: for me it crashing with "Critical error" after some minutes of usage | 19:45 |
| HtheB | coderus: Which version of TeamViewer do you have? | 19:46 |
| HtheB | (and What OS are you on) | 19:46 |
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| coderus | latest from play store | 19:50 |
| coderus | no idea which is it | 19:51 |
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| coderus | connected to win10 | 19:51 |
| HtheB | no no i mean the client | 19:51 |
| HtheB | errr server& | 19:51 |
| HtheB | Beta 11?> | 19:52 |
| coderus | no idea what you asking about | 19:52 |
| coderus | and why | 19:52 |
| HtheB | because I try to trace what the problem might be | 19:53 |
| HtheB | I have TV Beta 11 installed, and it works fine for me | 19:53 |
| * HtheB tries to connect again, but longer | 19:53 | |
| coderus | 11.0.4199 | 19:55 |
| coderus | on pc 11.0.50714 | 19:57 |
| HtheB | Ok im trying out now to see if it crashes when using it longer | 20:01 |
| HtheB | (typing from jolla right now using TV) | 20:01 |
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| HtheB | 10 Minutes now, Still no crash whatsoever | 20:11 |
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| HtheB | coderus: Might be some problem withbthe server I guess, I Still haven't encountered a crash yet | 20:23 |
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