#jollamobile log for Sunday, 2015-10-11

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c0ck4m0u53how to remove "update available" notification from notification screen?08:00
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Mikaelainstall the update, I guess08:02
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c0ck4m0u53dont like the ui changes in 1.1.9.28. so there is no way to blacklist system updates?08:18
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Mikaelanot updating system makes no sense as the older versions aren't supported and you make yourself vulnerable to security issues fixed in newer versions08:19
c0ck4m0u53I understand that and am aware of security risks while staying on older versions, but for me its a tradeoff between security and estetics. Since I dont store any securitiy sensible information on my phone I should be ok and take full responsibility for my actions08:24
HartziI don't really unterdstand why people complain about 2.0 UI. It's much better than the old one.08:39
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Hartziit looks and feels more like Nokia N908:42
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coderusc0ck4m0u53: remove jolla account08:58
coderusor sell your phone to someone08:58
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coderus(tip: second option is better for you and community)08:58
c0ck4m0u53Cant speak for n9 since I never owned one, but I guess its a matter of taste. Dont get me wrong Ive installed 1.1.9.28 and used it for about 3 weeks, finaly I downgraded back to 1.1.7.28.From my perspective 2.0 UI is similar to android with status bar, no more swipe to lock, the 4 most used apps gone. I do understand jollas position and decisions, they need to generate more revenue to stay afloat and08:59
c0ck4m0u53need to make sailfish os more appealing to general public08:59
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YanielI'm waiting for 1.2.0 to make my verdict09:01
c0ck4m0u53coderus: So now you speak for the whole community? So its your way or the high way, no critical thinking allowed?09:01
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intei have a problem09:05
intemy tablet doesnt install the sysupgrade09:05
lainwir3d_:-(09:05
intei guess i downloaded it once and started the upgrade09:05
lainwir3d_Didn't have problem here09:05
intethen i got it offered again09:05
lainwir3d_so I don't know what to say09:06
intenow, upgrade fails09:06
lainwir3d_isn't there a system restore ?09:06
lainwir3d_so that you can start fresh09:06
intenow, even download fails09:06
intei guess i will have to09:06
lainwir3d_:-(09:06
intecant even install developer mode currently09:06
intestrange09:06
coderusinte: check time and date09:07
inteok09:07
intewill09:07
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coderusc0ck4m0u53: you dont like os, so you sell it to someone who like it = more positive commmunity09:07
c0ck4m0u53coderus: For a guy who writes patches and with that modifies the default os behaviour to enhance the usability of sailfish, you are very quick to judge someone for looking outside the box09:08
intetimedate is correct09:08
coderusc0ck4m0u53: you still using win7 instead of win10, right?09:08
coderusinte: try to set manual dns servers for AP09:09
inteinternet works09:09
c0ck4m0u53coderus: I dont know what does desktop os has do to with anything but I use linux09:09
coderusinte: sure, but it's about update servers, not internetz09:09
intedownload starts but stops again after ~1/3209:10
coderusinte: what version from  to?09:10
inte1.9.2409:10
intethe preinstalled one09:10
tbrgee, people should follow Wheaton's Law more09:10
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lainwir3d_What's that law?09:10
intec0ck4m0u53: i guess there is some chance the final version of 2.0 will be a bit more like 1.709:10
coderusc0ck4m0u53: i see, using linux on dsktop and customizing it for yourself, but on phone complaining about status bar and cant customize phone os for yourself09:11
integiven that many complains09:11
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c0ck4m0u53coderus: not liking the os =! not liking the UI changes09:11
coderusc0ck4m0u53: os doesnt matter09:11
intec0ck4m0u53: especially since jolla promised to open source more of the ui09:11
c0ck4m0u53inte: If that is the case, that is a very good news09:11
coderuson desktop you using stock DE with no modifications?09:11
intei have strong hopes that at least the cover actions will come back09:12
Yanielcoderus: *cough* unity *cough*09:12
intemany people complain and jolla shouldnt ignore it (even though they still seem to do currently)09:12
lainwir3d_well I like the buttons better haha :D I hope it'll be an option ^^09:12
c0ck4m0u53coderus: Im running arch which comes with no default de or wm, user choses what he/ she wants to run09:12
intelainwir3d_: yeah on the tablet buttons work quite ok09:13
tbrjolla has their own reasoning and reasons, so they have decided to pull a Nokia on this09:13
intebut not on the phone09:13
lainwir3d_even on the phone actually09:13
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lainwir3d_I know I'm one of the few who seems to like them09:13
coderusc0ck4m0u53: you said yourself os != ui09:13
intetbr: jolla pulled nokia on what?!09:13
coderusso?09:13
intetbr: news?09:13
tbrinte: on ignoring its users09:13
intehahaha09:13
coderusinte: well, try factory reset probably :09:13
coderus;D09:13
intecoderus: yup glad i havent install too many apps yet09:14
inteand didnt customize too much :)09:14
lainwir3d_:D09:14
intetbr: jolla says they are also listening to the feedback they get from network providers09:15
coderusc0ck4m0u53: i see you limitimg yourself woth such decisions09:15
lainwir3d_I'm struggling with QtBluetooth on new sdk :-(09:15
intehowever, there are barely network providers selling the phone09:15
inteI dont get it09:15
lainwir3d_Something has definitly changed. Don't want to go back to stock 5.2 version, I haven't maintained support in quite a while in my app09:15
coderuslainwir3d_: #sailfishos is right place, keep posting dev stuff there09:15
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lainwir3d_I know, I'm there. Just wanted to share my sadness here09:16
coderusdont mix channels :)09:16
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coderussummertime sadness09:16
lainwir3d_didn't expect help :P09:16
lainwir3d_hehe09:16
intelainwir3d_: what are you sad abaout_09:16
inte?09:16
inteabout09:16
lainwir3d_QtBluetooth weirdness, see on #sailfishos :P09:17
c0ck4m0u53coderus: Ive decided to stay on 1.1.7.28 on phone while on tablet Im going to go with the flow:D, so sailfish 2.0 here I come, well at least I will right after I get one:D09:17
lainwir3d_but well, to resume : weird behavior on latest sdk09:17
intelainwir3d_: ah dont know not a developer yet09:17
lainwir3d_:)09:17
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coderusc0ck4m0u53: there is no 1.1.7.x for tablet09:17
c0ck4m0u53I know09:18
c0ck4m0u53so I have no choice but to use 2.009:18
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coderusso great you can't break tablet with old version09:18
coderusyou can make a patch and make your life better09:19
c0ck4m0u53coderus: or maybe you can by dd the old image onto it09:19
lainwir3d_wouldn't bet on that09:19
coderuswhat image?09:19
c0ck4m0u53coderus: make a full backup of 1.1.7.28 with dd than restore 1.1.7.28 from sd card onto tablet with dd command09:20
lainwir3d_assuming you can get a i486 image of old version from the emulator09:20
lainwir3d_different kernel so different btrfs version09:20
lainwir3d_different fs on the tablet, so btrfs hasn't been tested09:20
lainwir3d_every planet is aligned to get awesomely wrong results09:21
lainwir3d_:D09:21
coderus:D09:21
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Teguhm? "different fs on the tablet"? I've missed that one. so it does not use btrfs anymore?09:22
lainwir3d_no09:22
lainwir3d_lvm + ext409:22
Teguext4, maybe?09:22
Teguoki09:22
lainwir3d_see here : https://together.jolla.com/question/114716/what-is-the-tablets-fs-and-partition-scheme/09:22
c0ck4m0u53lainwir3d_: youre right probably not worth the hassle09:22
lainwir3d_yeah, big hassle incoming I guess09:23
lainwir3d_should not be impossible though09:23
Mikaelaso no tablet to https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Production_Users09:23
coderusluckily tablet is ext4, no btrfs here :D09:23
lainwir3d_even though I didn't have big troubles with btrfs09:23
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lainwir3d_I liked having bleeding edge stuff09:23
Tegubut is 1.1.9 on the phone still btrfs?09:24
twaapo_btr>worsefs09:24
c0ck4m0u53same here on issues with btrfs so far, however havent really tested its limits09:24
chem|stall this btrfs whining, have you ever filled an android device up? You moan on a pretty hi lvl09:29
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chem|styes btrfs is not as forgiving and it was a pita in the beginning but with the weekly cleanup I run just fine and faik having your data on uSD instead of mmc is must-do ever since we got uSD slots!09:30
lainwir3d_honestly, I even do it with the tablet and its 64GB emmc09:31
lainwir3d_most data => µSD09:31
lainwir3d_even though it is ext409:31
r0kk3rzi'll have to go uSD shopping09:31
r0kk3rzget a big fat 128gb in there09:32
lainwir3d_hmmm..; I only bought a 64GB, I find 128GB still too expensive09:32
chem|stlainwir3d_: it is just sane to not fill the internal storage of a device up, any device - if I run out of space on a desktop... I go shop for a bigger hdd instead of moaning that my FS does overhead09:32
intebtw how to close apps on the jolla tablet?09:32
chem|stinte: same as on the phone09:33
intedown swipe opens the ambience selection for me09:33
inteis that a setting?09:33
chem|stinte: settings!09:33
intehu09:33
lainwir3d_chem|st: where did I moan ? lol09:33
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lainwir3d_I said I was fine with btrfs09:33
lainwir3d_and yeah, filling up is a bad idea09:33
lainwir3d_Even though it seems btrfs had troubles even when It was not filled with actual data09:33
chem|stlainwir3d_: oh that was a general comment, not pointing fingers here09:33
lainwir3d_oh09:33
lainwir3d_sorry :)09:33
chem|stjust adding to the discussion09:34
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lainwir3d_chem|st: I'm not well waked up yet ;-)09:34
chem|stlainwir3d_: I am on my third cup accelerating intake...09:34
chem|stand I went out in the cold... that wakens you :)09:35
lainwir3d_:D09:35
r0kk3rzbtrfs would likely have been better with new kernel anyway09:36
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chem|sttwaapo_: find a way how to swap to lvm+ext on the phone "for everybody" and present it to jolla, keep in mind that there is stuff on the phone that cannot be distributed OTA09:36
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twaapo_is that an order?09:37
r0kk3rzonly way they would do that is at the repair shop09:38
chem|sttwaapo_: hehe, no09:38
taaemwasn't Stskeeps going to do ext4 for the phone?09:38
r0kk3rznot as an update to everyone09:38
chem|sttwaapo_: I try to figure out a way myself but yet I am hung at $user09:38
twaapo_i think jolla has some thing with btrfs snapshots built in09:38
twaapo_i havent really looked at it that much09:39
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chem|stthe easiest way, factory-reset upgrade, uSD everything, setup shop, recover from uSD09:40
r0kk3rzdepends on if you can update the recovery09:41
r0kk3rzsince it will still be expecting btrfs snapshots09:41
chem|str0kk3rz: recovery image? I think that can be upgraded09:41
r0kk3rznot the image09:42
r0kk3rzthe menu + scripts09:42
chem|str0kk3rz: you mean recovery mode09:42
r0kk3rzyeah09:42
chem|styeah that is an image iirc09:43
chem|stnot factory snapshot09:43
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r0kk3rza new one would have to be developed anyway09:45
r0kk3rzprobably not super difficult09:45
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Stskeepsinte: so, what's foobar about your tablet?09:49
Stskeepsinte: and are you MaxT on tjc?09:49
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chem|str0kk3rz: what they have on the tablet maybe? :)09:52
r0kk3rzprovided it doesnt have any UEFI specific stuff in there09:52
r0kk3rzStskeeps: inte is inte on tjc09:53
Stskeepshmm.09:53
Stskeeps:P09:53
Stskeepsthen we have two people with issues :)09:53
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chem|str0kk3rz: you mean booting factory-reset?09:54
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r0kk3rzlainwir3d: can you go promiscuous mode on the internal wifi adapter?11:10
r0kk3rzsince that was something we never achieved on the jphone11:11
r0kk3rzbut presumably its an intel adapter?11:11
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lainwir3dhmmm11:14
lainwir3dI can try11:14
lainwir3dhow do I do that again ?11:14
lainwir3dDo I need aircrack-ng ?11:14
lainwir3dlol11:14
lainwir3doh, just monitor mode maybe11:14
r0kk3rzyou dont need any tools11:16
r0kk3rzyeah monitor mode is another name for it11:17
r0kk3rzmight be an idea to find out what driver its using11:17
lainwir3dr0kk3rz: seems to work11:18
lainwir3diwconfig wlan0 mode monitor11:18
lainwir3dI didn't get yelled at, so I think that's promising11:18
lainwir3dbcm433011:18
Stskeepsr0kk3rz: broadcom11:18
r0kk3rzStskeeps: cool thanks11:19
lainwir3dyeah, bcm4330 module11:19
tbrwhat an "open source friendly" choice...11:19
PeperI guess beggers can't be choosers11:20
Stskeepstbr: at least there's no GPU bootloader11:21
tbrStskeeps: well, FSP, UEFI, ... or do you use u-boot?11:21
Yanielthere is iwconfig on the tablet?11:22
r0kk3rzcould be worse, looks like there are open source drivers for it11:22
tbryeah, but bcm makes me generally uncomfortable. They don't have exactly a great open source / linux history11:23
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Teguit is a shame that the jolla phone does not support monitor mode :( or changing the MAC address11:24
r0kk3rzat least with tablet we can plug in usb adapter11:25
Tegulainwir3d: does it really work or does it just appear to change the mode?11:25
r0kk3rzquick googling shows other devices with that adapter have needed driver changes11:25
Tegublaah11:26
lainwir3dTegu: I don't know, just tried switching mode honestly11:26
r0kk3rzbut whether bcom have updated their driver since to include it? who knows, all shall be revealed in time11:26
Stskeepstbr: UEFI11:27
Stskeepstbr: what on earth is FSP?11:28
Stskeeps:P11:28
tbrStskeeps: I guess it's not upstream reference UEFI?11:28
lainwir3dfree software poundation11:28
lainwir3d:/11:28
tbrStskeeps: that's an intel blob contained in most firmware to set up memory and a few things11:29
Stskeepstbr: well, it'll load stuff from ESP partition which has .efi files on it like efilinux11:29
Stskeepstbr: rest is firmware, afaik11:29
tbrThe Intel® Firmware Support Package. (Intel® FSP) provides key firmware components for initializing Intel® silicon, including the processor, memory controller,.11:29
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Stskeepsnever heard of it11:30
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tbrunless you compile your UEFI firmware yourself and pay close attention, you won't know11:30
* tbr knows because he hangs out with people who work on minnowboard and actual production devices11:30
tbrif you have to deal with random vendor firmware, you're screwed anyway11:31
Stskeepsnod11:32
Stskeepsi can tell a couple of UEFI firmware horror stories one day over beer11:32
Stskeepsbut anyway, the thing should boot standard uefi stuff, but beware of special display chip in PCB11:33
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Stskeepsefifb may get you far enough but for any kind of sane gfx you need a proper kernel source for the alternative OS'es11:33
YanielI just wish windows didn't insist on rewriting the UEFI NVRAM at every boot11:34
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r0kk3rzYaniel: solution, don't use windows :P11:34
Stskeepsand to get into the uefi config you'll need usb otg and a keyboard11:34
Stskeepsany damage caused at your own risk11:34
Stskeeps:P11:34
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Yanielr0kk3rz: at least not on the tablet ^^11:35
Yanielthen again, there is a jolla office nearby11:35
Yanielin case something goes wrong...11:35
r0kk3rzStskeeps: any hope for flashable images on the jtab? or do we have similar blob issues like the jphone11:35
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Stskeepsr0kk3rz: i think there's something about that but i need to check11:37
tbrStskeeps: out of curiosity, happen to know if the bios flash is reasonably accessible or even has test points once you open the case? (That would reduce worries for people who want to tinker with hw and are afraid of rendering it unbootable)11:37
Stskeepstbr: i'm fairly sure it's signed :/11:37
Stskeepstbr: the whole bios part is really hairy11:38
tbrStskeeps: sure, but if something e.g. screws up the nvram section11:38
tbrwhich is on the same chip11:38
Stskeepsmm, not sure11:38
taaemsailfish on the tablet is using android drivers right?11:38
tbrhence being able to rewrite that SPI flash chip is a bonus for tinkerers11:38
tbreven if the firmware part requires to be signed11:39
taaemcould you also use a standard kernel and open-source drivers and mesa?11:39
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Stskeepsi'm fairly sure standard kernel is out of the question by now; there's a special interface towards the screen in the pcb11:40
Stskeepsefifb may wor11:40
Stskeepsk11:40
tbrStskeeps: not sure if you remember, there was an ugly bug in the default firmware for minnowboard max. It would try to defrag nvram every few boots and there was a good chance it would enter an endless loop during that. → "brick" until you get a dediprog or other 1.8V SPI flasher11:40
Stskeepstbr: nod11:40
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Stskeepstbr: i don't think we've encountered anything like that11:41
tbrglad to hear11:41
tbrbtw: is there a UART on test points?11:42
Stskeepsphdeswer: you recall where the uart is?11:42
Stskeepsinterestingily i've never had a need for the uart on it11:42
phdeswerStskeeps: uart for the phone?11:43
tbrphdeswer: no tablet11:43
Stskeepsphdeswer: tablet11:43
tbrStskeeps: I'm just thinking that it would make sense to get a few of those things out in the open and documented for the "screw warranty" crowd and other desperate people11:44
phdeswerJonni might know, never used it as I got the framebuffer console to work.11:44
lainwir3dI'd have loved on the case i2c points for external accessories. Or something like that, something to pursuit the spirit of "the other half"11:44
Stskeepslainwir3d: well, there's usb otg.11:44
tbrwith micro-b...11:44
r0kk3rzusb otg is a bit more useful than i2c really11:45
tbrbut that's partly due to useless-serial-bus standards anyway11:45
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Stskeepssomething like http://gizmodo.com/a-simple-magnetic-adapter-gives-your-charging-cables-ma-1718989721 could work well with the tablet11:45
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tbrwho thought it would be a good idea to make micro-ab sockets that will allow a reversed micro-b and break the port that way11:45
lainwir3dYeah I know, but I'm mean for easily docking the tablet11:46
Stskeepstbr: planned obsolence(sp)11:46
lainwir3dbut I guess you can do that with usb... just have to be careful plugin it11:46
Stskeepspeeps11:46
Stskeepslainwir3d: so after 24+ hours with the tablet, how is it?11:46
lainwir3dLove it, even though I have troubles porting my QtBluetooth app11:46
tbrStskeeps: some more ugly details to make you feel nauseous https://puri.sm/posts/bios-freedom-status/11:47
lainwir3dStskeeps: it misses some important apps for me for the moment, but they will come with time11:47
lainwir3dLove the lastucase, love the mapbagrag11:48
taaemIs Jolla going to Slush 2015?11:48
lainwir3dLove usb-otg, I can plug my usb headphones on it (with a small bug, but that's alright)11:48
phdeswerWell if somebody notices missing modules for certain usb-otg devices let me know. I'll be happy to add them.11:49
Stskeepstbr: ah.. ME, the famed SPARC in the device11:49
tbryah11:50
r0kk3rzphdeswer: lainwir3d was saying something about suspend/resume issues when using usb sound11:50
lainwir3dyeah, tablet has "troubles" going out of suspend11:50
tbron newer socs there is also some security core stuff, which is either some funky arch or a slimmed down 486 range core11:50
lainwir3dit took longer than usual, at least 6seconds11:50
Stskeepslainwir3d: i think we have fixes in that regard coming up, just didn't make it into that version11:51
lainwir3dalright11:51
Stskeepslainwir3d: sailfish native, or android?11:51
phdeswerr0kk3rz: lainwir3d : Well the usb sound driver might be buggy and take ages to resume. Not unheard of. Could just as well be something else too...11:52
lainwir3dI was wondering if it might have to do with the fact that we're pumping quite some power from the tablet usb port. We're not yet clean regarding that in parrot headphones11:52
lainwir3d'cause the headphones are going out next month, so we may have some things to take care of11:53
lainwir3dStskeeps: what are you talking about ? the app ? sailfish native11:53
Stskeepslainwir3d: [13:47] <lainwir3d> Stskeeps: it misses some important apps for me for the moment, but they will come with time11:53
lainwir3doh11:53
lainwir3dyeah11:53
lainwir3dsailfish native11:53
lainwir3dnearly don't use android apps. I mostly miss YTPlayer for the moment11:54
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lainwir3dand my calculator app, but that's for me to port it11:54
lainwir3dtweetian too, vlc remote maybe, File Browser, owncloud11:56
lainwir3dthat's about all11:56
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lainwir3dphdeswer: yeah. I'll take further look during the week, I can justify it at work :-P11:57
phdeswerlainwir3d: ok :)11:58
r0kk3rzlainwir3d: yeah it'll help to have more test devices out in the wild for the app situation11:58
lainwir3dIf you have pointers where I can look at, it'll be welcome11:58
Peperlainwir3d: have you tried twablet maybe?11:58
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lainwir3dtwablet ?11:58
Peperit is a twitter app for tablet specifically11:58
lainwir3d:o11:59
lainwir3dno11:59
Peperis somewhere on openrepos afair11:59
lainwir3din the harbour store ?11:59
lainwir3dooooh... I'll go take a look11:59
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lainwir3dseems to be built for armv7hl only12:00
lainwir3dcan't see sources too12:00
r0kk3rzlainwir3d: talk to SK about compiling it for x8612:00
lainwir3dwill do12:01
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lainwir3ddone12:05
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lainwir3dFirst app ported to tablet ui16:08
lainwir3dwell, mostly.16:08
mornfallwe are only missing the tablet now :D16:08
lainwir3dnot me :P16:09
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