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| entil | sometimes I feel I'm the only person who actually appreciated all that :( | 07:48 |
|---|---|---|
| jaacoppi | swipes are the best thing in sfos | 07:51 |
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| the_mgt | entil: I liked the old way, but I did get confused at times. very rarely, but that is still often enough | 08:04 |
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| inte | what will happen when I disable early access in my jolla profile and then call a "zypper dup" from terminal? | 08:13 |
| inte | wouldnt the jolla phone sync to 1.7.28 then? | 08:13 |
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| inte | https://together.jolla.com/question/108599/11928-alarming-oom-behavior-killing-apps/ | 08:21 |
| inte | that maybe explains why sailirc always disconnects when in background | 08:22 |
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| inte | so is there anybody around who is definding the fuckuped cover-action solution? | 08:24 |
| inte | about every second time i hit a cover action instead of the tile when i want to maximize the app | 08:24 |
| inte | who came up with this stupid idea? | 08:25 |
| inte | i wouldnt say, fire him, but he should at least apologize :-) | 08:25 |
| inte | i would suggest someone writing a patch to completly deactivate cover actions until this mess is fixed | 08:26 |
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| jaacoppi | inte: read the development roadmap. There are some fixes coming | 08:29 |
| inte | we have patchmanager, so someone should please fix it :-) | 08:29 |
| inte | missed the link since my sailirc disconnected | 08:29 |
| inte | jaacoppi: can you post it again pls? | 08:29 |
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| the_mgt | also, give us back the proper start menu in windows, the deutsche mark and michael jackson | 08:29 |
| jaacoppi | https://sailfishos.org/developmentroadmap/ | 08:29 |
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| inte | the_mgt: i dont use windows but from what Ive heard micosoft did just that :-) | 08:30 |
| inte | the_mgt: sometimes its not the worsed idea listening to the community | 08:30 |
| inte | jaacoppi: thx | 08:30 |
| the_mgt | it is not the same, the only true start menue was in win95 | 08:30 |
| inte | i have a start menu in kde and i like it | 08:31 |
| inte | id be mad at kde if they'd change it | 08:31 |
| inte | they even barely changed it in kde5 | 08:32 |
| inte | they wouldnt dare | 08:32 |
| inte | btw what is ment here: https://together.jolla.com/question/108681/11928-new-button-style-is/ New button still? Didnt notice that yet | 08:32 |
| Yaniel | previously buttons were just text with a fancy underlining | 08:33 |
| jaacoppi | now the buttons are boxes | 08:33 |
| Yaniel | now they are clearly visible rounded rectangles | 08:33 |
| inte | i just opened several apps and didnt notice any significant difference | 08:33 |
| inte | which app for instance? | 08:33 |
| jaacoppi | every app and every button in the ui | 08:33 |
| jaacoppi | for example, call in phone app | 08:33 |
| inte | ah | 08:34 |
| inte | the reactangle around "call" | 08:34 |
| inte | didnt notice that | 08:34 |
| inte | doesnt bother me too much | 08:35 |
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| inte | there are other things in sf2.0 which are far worse | 08:35 |
| inte | ill read the roadmap now and will complain more later :) | 08:35 |
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| the_mgt | and everything was cheaper when we still had DM | 08:35 |
| inte | the_mgt: and we had a wall and all the nazi idiots from dunkeldeutschland were locked in | 08:36 |
| inte | not everything was bad in the good old times ;) | 08:36 |
| the_mgt | I say yes to the Antifaschistische Schutzwall | 08:36 |
| inte | hehe | 08:36 |
| inte | was somehow working the other way round though :) | 08:37 |
| Pawky | is Mr jlehtoranta represented in here somehow? | 08:37 |
| Tofe | jaacoppi: there is nothing in the roadmap about investigating alternative cover triggers | 08:37 |
| Tofe | (also, I'm pretty sure it would have been possible to keep the old horizontal swipe for the covers, even with an horizontal carroussel) | 08:39 |
| inte | so after i just had a look at the roadmap there doesnt seem to be a word on cover actions | 08:39 |
| inte | Tofe: hu | 08:39 |
| inte | yeah just saw that too :) | 08:39 |
| inte | there do not have to be alternatives | 08:39 |
| the_mgt | Tofe: I think that too | 08:39 |
| inte | they just have to bring the old style back!! | 08:39 |
| inte | just put eventsview to where it was before | 08:40 |
| inte | and then horizontal swiping could be used for cover actions | 08:40 |
| inte | what is the problem | 08:40 |
| inte | and for this stupid caroussel | 08:40 |
| Jare | Pawky: yes sir, what's up? | 08:40 |
| inte | this could still be reachable, but from the eventsview screen then | 08:40 |
| Tofe | inte: no, they made their ergonomic choice, certainly validated by some users; patching the UI is the "role" of the community | 08:41 |
| Pawky | Jare: I presume you are the Tether gui guy.... :-) | 08:41 |
| inte | Tofe: I cant believe anyone really validated that | 08:42 |
| inte | for instance, how could they remove the "reload" cover action from browser??? | 08:42 |
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| the_mgt | maybe vertical swipes for coveractions could work | 08:42 |
| inte | its like removing checkfornewmail from the mail app | 08:42 |
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| Jare | Pawky: ah, yeah i did that app around the jolla1 release time | 08:42 |
| Pawky | Jare: As you might know the bluetooth part of the tethering doesn't work anymore. I was looking into your code a bit seeing that 5 time checking with a delay and was wondering the problem might be solved by adding the delay a bit? | 08:42 |
| Tofe | inte: well, I'm just an optimistic guy :) | 08:42 |
| inte | the_mgt: how could that work? | 08:42 |
| Lieke | shouldn't the cover actions work as before if they used edge swipes for the caroussel? | 08:43 |
| inte | and im anoyed of the eventsview screen aside anyways | 08:43 |
| Pawky | Jare: Its the only app supporting bluetooth tethering and lots of us probably want to use it when the tablet arrives | 08:43 |
| inte | just put the entire caroussel together with the eventsscreen in a different level | 08:43 |
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| phlixi | inte: did you used an n9? | 08:44 |
| inte | yes | 08:44 |
| Tofe | inte: I quite like the carroussel idea, it feels nice | 08:44 |
| the_mgt | I like the ide of caroussel, if I was able to define my own "partner space" | 08:44 |
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| the_mgt | the horizontal plane was heavily neglected in terms of usefulness | 08:44 |
| Pawky | Jare: are you considering looking into this issue yourself in the near future? :-) | 08:44 |
| phlixi | inte: is it compareable now? ( i am not in the early adopter line...) | 08:44 |
| inte | yeah i dont mind the caroussel | 08:44 |
| inte | phlixi: DONT update | 08:44 |
| inte | 1.9.28 sucks BIG TIME | 08:45 |
| Tofe | the_mgt: I agree, with for instance some pre-loaded app or something | 08:45 |
| inte | no its not comparable, its a mess | 08:45 |
| Pawky | inte: no it doesn't | 08:45 |
| phlixi | inte: i am just curious, if this mmight be a step into the direction the n9 was (i prefer that alot over the "one colum design" of the jolla so far) | 08:45 |
| the_mgt | phlixi: he is just an angry german, do not listen to inte :) | 08:45 |
| phlixi | the_mgt: i am an angry german too | 08:45 |
| Smar | inte: too much improvement? | 08:46 |
| the_mgt | germans are conservative and angsty of progress | 08:46 |
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| inte | so, again, i wouldnt mind the caroussel but it could just be on a level with eventsview | 08:46 |
| inte | Smar: to much worsening | 08:46 |
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| inte | look at tjc | 08:46 |
| inte | complaints all over | 08:46 |
| Smar | inte: there’s never anything but complaints | 08:46 |
| the_mgt | inte: you need to keep in mind that the same OS needs to power both the phone and the tablet | 08:46 |
| inte | unusable cover actions, removed the silencing shortcut, and so on | 08:46 |
| inte | well still | 08:47 |
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| inte | but even on the tablet i wouldnt like it the way it is | 08:47 |
| ivanplatzek | At least, i am glad that the TOHKBD works after having installed 1.9.28 | 08:47 |
| the_mgt | I guess edge swipes for the caroussel and horizontal swipes for cover action would make sense on the mobile phone, but not on the tablet | 08:47 |
| phlixi | i dont need a shortcut to unsilent the pphone, its silent all the time :D | 08:47 |
| ivanplatzek | i was afraid it will not work, but i was curious | 08:47 |
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| inte | can anyone briefly explain why it would be a problem to have a seperate horizontal level for eventsview (which might now include the caroussel) as it was before? That would also resove the cover-actions issue | 08:48 |
| inte | the_mgt: the tablet gui needend be absolutely identical to the phone | 08:48 |
| the_mgt | inte: briefly: one layer to much of complexity for your mom | 08:49 |
| Jare | Pawky: ok, well there have been lots of changes on the connman/ofono side, so i would have to check up on those and figure out what kind of changes are needed for the tethering app. I have a quite busy schedule in the upcoming weeks, but i might have time to do some updates before sfos 2.0 gets released | 08:49 |
| the_mgt | or any mom | 08:49 |
| inte | its not even on the ipad afair | 08:49 |
| inte | the_mgt: that bullshit, now it even more complex since you don not only have horizontal swiping but also vertical | 08:49 |
| inte | IMHO | 08:49 |
| inte | sorry for my hard words | 08:49 |
| inte | im a bit anoyed and i havent figured out a safe way to downgrade yet | 08:50 |
| ggabriel | i'd discuss that in tjc, where ux sailors will read | 08:50 |
| ggabriel | obviously they listen and stuff changes, and apparently quite dramatically, but of course you can't please everyone | 08:50 |
| ggabriel | also, it's google's fault :P | 08:50 |
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| inte | ggabriel: i already made a suggestion to remove the cover actions completly since i always hit them by coincedence now | 08:51 |
| lainwir3d | hey the_mgt, still using the Zik 1 ? | 08:51 |
| inte | after i had a rating of -2 for that idea, im now at +7 or sth :-) | 08:51 |
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| inte | so, well, i guess this issue is discussed already | 08:52 |
| the_mgt | lainwir3d: hi. yes, and loving it | 08:52 |
| inte | https://together.jolla.com/question/108612/deactivate-cover-actions-completly/ | 08:52 |
| inte | oh, +6 again | 08:52 |
| inte | some people are always downvoting my great idea ;) | 08:52 |
| lainwir3d | Good :-) I was wondering if my app had actually any zik 2 users, now that the zik 3 is coming out :-/ | 08:52 |
| ggabriel | inte: fwiw, i love cover actions | 08:53 |
| Pawky | Jare: I do understand you are very busy. It sounds promising you will have a look at it. I have tried a bit myself from a hackers point of view, but I am not familiar with coding for sailfish. I believe you are right some changes to connman is making it fail. It sounds great you might have some time as a lot of us "soon to own a tablet" probably want to use this feature as it lacks a sim slot :-) | 08:53 |
| the_mgt | wasnt the zik 2 jut released?! | 08:53 |
| ggabriel | making them switcheable, yeah, but removing them altogether is a big no for me | 08:53 |
| inte | ggabriel: i too, but as a workaround until they are fixed it would be wise to disable them | 08:53 |
| inte | i want coveractions too | 08:53 |
| ggabriel | i'm not sure what you mean by "fixed" as they work perfectly from day 1 for me | 08:53 |
| ggabriel | unless you mean the tappable ones in 1.1.9 | 08:53 |
| inte | and wasnt too serious with my suggestion | 08:53 |
| inte | ggabriel: talking about 1.1.9 | 08:54 |
| inte | they are useless | 08:54 |
| inte | some are even missing, like the "reload" action for the browser | 08:54 |
| inte | and you always hit them by acciedent | 08:54 |
| inte | when trying to maximize apps | 08:54 |
| ggabriel | oic | 08:54 |
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| inte | therefore i sacastical suggested to remove them entirely since they are now a bunch of crap :) | 08:55 |
| ggabriel | sarcasm/irony rarely work constructively ;) | 08:55 |
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| lainwir3d | the_mgt: last year it was released. Yeah that's a shorter time span than between zik 1 / zik 2 | 08:56 |
| phlixi | Pawky: i use the wlan ap a lot, whats wrong with that? | 08:56 |
| phlixi | ...just wondering | 08:56 |
| phlixi | (i dont have devices that would need bluetooth to get internet, because they all have wlan) | 08:57 |
| the_mgt | lainwir3d: does it support apt-x now | 08:57 |
| the_mgt | ? | 08:57 |
| inte | phlixi: obviously bt-ap doesnt work any more which might become important when people have their tablets | 08:58 |
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| phlixi | inte: that was my question, what i would need it for.. because i hope the tablet comes with wifi | 08:58 |
| phlixi | i do not know ad hoc what the specs of the tablet are, but im a pretty sure i would not have ordered it, if it had no wlan | 08:59 |
| lainwir3d | the_mgt: nope :-/ | 09:00 |
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| inte | phlixi: but bt needs far less power | 09:00 |
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| inte | ggabriel: yes you are of course right, but for the current release i wouldn really mind having a patch to disable the cover actions completly | 09:01 |
| inte | i hit a cover action every second time if not more when i try to open an app | 09:01 |
| phlixi | inte: i am not sure about that, because the main loss, is, that the phone can not go to sleep that much while acting as wlan ap. the actual radio might not be that mauch of a difference after all.... | 09:01 |
| inte | phlixi: whatever | 09:01 |
| kjetilho | inte: how many covers do you have active (ie so how small are they)? | 09:02 |
| phlixi | (thats by the way the reason why i always activate the wlan ap, if i go to IRC on the phone, even if i do not use the ap) | 09:02 |
| inte | kjetilho: i dont know, like 4 or 5 | 09:02 |
| inte | e.g. mail, whatsapp, browser, irc and quizduell | 09:02 |
| inte | so everytime im opening the browser im hitting the new tab shortcut | 09:03 |
| inte | thats not to worse, i can just close the tab but its still anoying | 09:03 |
| Tofe | inte: You just need a Jolla Pencil ! | 09:03 |
| inte | i think jolla is aware of this problem and thats why they removed the reload shortcut from browser | 09:03 |
| inte | Tofe: thats an improvement | 09:04 |
| inte | like apple, they also have a pencil now :) | 09:04 |
| inte | we fucked up the gui, so lets do some marketing for the pencil ;) | 09:04 |
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| kjetilho | it's strange, I have no problem with (avoiding or hitting) the cover actions on 3x3 grid, but the swipes were really difficult to get right before. | 09:05 |
| phlixi | whatß | 09:06 |
| phlixi | ? | 09:06 |
| kjetilho | we have very different motor skils :) | 09:06 |
| phlixi | i necver miss a coveraction swype... | 09:06 |
| phlixi | ...i miss the keys a lot obviously :D | 09:06 |
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| phlixi | Tofe: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COenroJWEAAjLoi.jpg:large | 09:06 |
| kjetilho | no I mean all the edge or close to edge swipes | 09:06 |
| phlixi | Tofe: https://i.imgur.com/FTBUEXF.png | 09:06 |
| kjetilho | worst of all was the notification swipe from bottom. that I never could make work. | 09:07 |
| inte | kjetilho: what??? | 09:07 |
| kjetilho | 1.1.9 is such a huge improvement | 09:07 |
| inte | that was one of the greates | 09:07 |
| inte | especially when in apps | 09:07 |
| kjetilho | I always got the home screen! | 09:07 |
| inte | you could easily swipe to the notification screen | 09:08 |
| kjetilho | and my poor thumb hurt | 09:08 |
| inte | or half swipe there | 09:08 |
| inte | now that is not possible anymore | 09:08 |
| Tofe | phlixi: :) | 09:08 |
| phlixi | i had a little bit problems in the very early use of N9, because i had a case around it, once i remmoved the case, swyping was really great... on the jolla, swyping was a bit more difficult, but i guess i "learned" it on the n9, so it never was actually a problem on jolla... | 09:08 |
| inte | swiping an app aside lets you only view the homescreen, not the notification screen anymore | 09:08 |
| inte | another anoying thing | 09:08 |
| Yaniel | you can vhange that in settings | 09:09 |
| inte | now, to get to notifications, you have to minimize the app, and then swipe that | 09:09 |
| Yaniel | change* | 09:09 |
| inte | Yaniel: i did that and that pissed me of even more | 09:09 |
| inte | it confused you | 09:09 |
| phlixi | inte: doesnt that mean you can just "double swype"? | 09:09 |
| inte | Yaniel: when changing in the settings, you can swipe to events to the left, and to home to the right | 09:10 |
| inte | the is confusing when chaning hands | 09:10 |
| inte | you do the same action, like swinping the thump away, with both different hands, and it leads to different actions | 09:11 |
| inte | like swiping left or right | 09:11 |
| inte | totally unergonomically | 09:11 |
| inte | phlixi: i cant follow you? | 09:11 |
| Yaniel | phlixi: not if you are in landscape mode | 09:12 |
| inte | philxi the cool thing with swiping is to not do a "full" swipe but just move apps away a little to have a look on the other screen | 09:12 |
| inte | or maybe, at time and battery status | 09:12 |
| inte | another thing | 09:12 |
| phlixi | inte: as mentioned above, i do not have it installed, and i am still not clear about what it is after the patch, currently i imagine a bit more n9 style caroussel... there you could just swype twice, if you "land" in the wrong colum when swyping away an app... | 09:12 |
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| Nicd- | btw, I don't like it that the app stops rendering when I am peeking | 09:13 |
| phlixi | ok, but thats not a "swype" thats a "peak", right? | 09:13 |
| inte | why would i want this stupid line with time and battery status on my homescreen when i loose my favourit app icons for that? | 09:13 |
| Nicd- | I peek for the battery status and clock often when watching videos | 09:13 |
| Nicd- | it's annoying that the video stops | 09:13 |
| inte | phlixi: as mentioned above i have it installed, and i am clear about what it is after the patch: A catastrophy | 09:14 |
| inte | :-) | 09:14 |
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| phlixi | inte: yes, you made it clear, that you dislike it... but since no one confirmes to me, that it is lmore like the n9 caroussel.. i can only specualte... thus i asked, whether you maybe just can "double swype" (but you already clarified, that you do not mean swype, but peak...) | 09:15 |
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| inte | yes | 09:16 |
| inte | you could of course swipe | 09:16 |
| inte | phlixi: ask here if you find someone who favors the "new" cover actions to the old :) | 09:16 |
| inte | i dare you will... | 09:16 |
| phlixi | inte: so is it more n9 style or not? | 09:17 |
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| phlixi | as far as i understand it is like n9, but not with 3 columns but only 2. one with the app covers and one with events... right? and app icons always come from bottom swype... but unlike on n9, when swyping from within an app, you do not go to the LAST SEEN column (events or covers) but always to the covers... correct? | 09:18 |
| inte | only 2 columns | 09:19 |
| phlixi | ...thus when within an app, you allways would have to double swipe, to get to events? | 09:19 |
| inte | yes | 09:20 |
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| phlixi | sounds like an improvement to me | 09:20 |
| phlixi | however, what you told about cover actions does not | 09:20 |
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| M4rtinK | phlixi: you can configure it to always go to event screen by left swipe | 09:22 |
| phlixi | and i assume that all the other little things are still ignored, like the silly fact that browser is opening links requested from other apps (like clicking a link in twitter) in the last open tab, instead of in a new one on top.... or broken clipboard... or missing fast-scroll in browser... etc etc | 09:22 |
| phlixi | M4rtinK: thanks | 09:22 |
| M4rtinK | which is better than nothing but I would like it to be more configurable | 09:22 |
| M4rtinK | + left handed people report left edge swipe is not very comfortable for them | 09:22 |
| phlixi | inte: doesnt that "[2015-09-11 11:22:04] <M4rtinK> phlixi: you can configure it to always go to event screen by left swipe" mean, that you could peak to eventy like you request? | 09:23 |
| phlixi | by the way, i am right handed and use the phone mostly left... | 09:23 |
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| M4rtinK | phlixi: no "open in tab in background", no categories in gallery, almost no APIs allowed in Harbour, no SIP UI, no multiuser chat UI, tons of stuff closed source, SDL2 still broken, no community translation service, outdated GPLv2 components, no proper bugzilla for all components,... :) | 09:24 |
| M4rtinK | sure, stuff is moving along but some things just seem to take a lot of time to happen :) | 09:25 |
| kjetilho | M4rtinK: ah, thanks for pointing that out. that's quite perfect :) | 09:25 |
| M4rtinK | np :) | 09:25 |
| phlixi | like the example with the "link is opening in existing tab", there happens nothing, not even slowly... | 09:25 |
| inte | phlixi: yes but its anoying since it is only to the left | 09:27 |
| inte | so, if your like righthanded you use it easily that way | 09:27 |
| M4rtinK | kjetilho: still I think I would prefer it to remain as it was (swipe from bottom) | 09:27 |
| TemeV | Hey where did the precense indicator go :/ | 09:27 |
| phlixi | actually is was inteneded to lower memory usage... now i always open an additional tab, as landing page... thats silly... uses more memory (i always have to have that extra tab) and makes me do more steps... REALLY ANNOYING! | 09:27 |
| inte | but if you change hands, | 09:27 |
| TemeV | I just realized I can't see anymore if I'm online or not | 09:27 |
| M4rtinK | kjetilho: as with this setting you basically need to swipe twice for home screen or use the less comfortable/two handed right swipe | 09:28 |
| Yaniel | I think this was in the release notes... | 09:28 |
| inte | you will totally get confused and really have to concentrate on to which side you have to swipe | 09:28 |
| M4rtinK | kjetilho: and I don't need the "app drawer that often" | 09:28 |
| phlixi | but if it is caroussel, you can go in a circle, so you just swype once more to get to the other side, right? | 09:28 |
| kjetilho | M4rtinK: I get home screen with (from) right swipe | 09:28 |
| inte | phlixi: thats probably the idea behind | 09:28 |
| kjetilho | I typically use the app drawer instead of the covers | 09:29 |
| inte | but i prefer to have a seperat horizontal caroussel layer starting with eventsview | 09:29 |
| M4rtinK | kjetilho: sure, but it is a bit less comfortable for single hand operation (left hand) | 09:29 |
| kjetilho | simply because I don't recognise the covers! | 09:29 |
| inte | not starting from home | 09:29 |
| inte | home should be the center of everything | 09:29 |
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| kjetilho | it's such a pain to consider each cover to find out... "is this the youtube cover?" | 09:29 |
| kjetilho | much better to click on the Youtube icon | 09:29 |
| inte | so, again to my question: is it possible for the community to "patch" the gui and put eventsview back to where it belonged and repair the cover actions, or is that closed source and has to be done by jolla? | 09:32 |
| phlixi_mobile__ | inte: i guess you will have to do it | 09:34 |
| phlixi_mobile__ | ....or wait and see... | 09:34 |
| inte | phlixi_mobile__: ok, i mean, CAN the community do it or is it closed source? | 09:35 |
| inte | if it was possible for the community to repair that, im sure there will be patches shortly | 09:35 |
| inte | if it is closed source i really have to find a way to downgrade my phone | 09:35 |
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| inte | zypper dup doesnt appear to work for downgrading | 09:36 |
| inte | what a pitty | 09:36 |
| M4rtinK | inte: IIRC there already are some patches for this | 09:36 |
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| phlixi_mobile__ | there you go ;) | 09:37 |
| M4rtinK | inte: at least one patch adding a pulley menu for the actions | 09:37 |
| M4rtinK | inte: most of the UI is just QML, so it is easy to patch | 09:37 |
| M4rtinK | still, this is not a long term solution in my opinion | 09:37 |
| M4rtinK | you generally want to limit the number of downstream patches to a minimum in any project | 09:38 |
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| inte | M4rtinK: well maybe one day we have to replace the sailfish gui with the upcoming kde gui | 09:39 |
| inte | i hope we wont have to though | 09:39 |
| inte | M4rtinK: i hope someone patches cover actions and buts the eventsview back to where it was before | 09:40 |
| inte | thats a mandatory patch! | 09:40 |
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| M4rtinK | I would like to say yet again that I think keeping the UI closed source is harmful for little benefit | 09:42 |
| M4rtinK | as the tons of patches show people are willing to contribute to UI development | 09:43 |
| M4rtinK | and its also harming the progress of community versions of Sailfish OS such as Nemo Mobile | 09:44 |
| locusf | M4rtinK: how is it harming Nemo? | 09:45 |
| M4rtinK | locusf: I think it would be much easier to start of with silica with a free theme | 09:46 |
| M4rtinK | locusf: and build Glacier from that | 09:46 |
| M4rtinK | locusf: rather than having to build everything from the ground up | 09:46 |
| locusf | M4rtinK: true | 09:46 |
| M4rtinK | people are less willing to contribute/use a distro until it reaches some level of usability | 09:47 |
| M4rtinK | not to mention possibilities for code sharing | 09:48 |
| ggabriel | i haven't seen any "good" ux coming from open source ever tbh | 09:48 |
| M4rtinK | vim ? :) | 09:48 |
| ggabriel | it's either too geeky (openbox, which is great) or too complex (kde) | 09:48 |
| ggabriel | that qualifies as too geeky | 09:48 |
| ggabriel | I mean for the masses | 09:48 |
| ggabriel | and you can see in tjc that a lot of ideas may have a good intention behind but are terrible ux suggestions | 09:49 |
| ggabriel | and i'm not even a ux expert | 09:49 |
| M4rtinK | I don't think it's that bad these days | 09:49 |
| M4rtinK | I know normal users that use Gnome Shell or KDE4 just fine once you briefly show them around | 09:49 |
| ggabriel | at the same time, you could open source stuff and jolla can be selective of what to include | 09:49 |
| lainwir3d | that would be the best solution | 09:50 |
| lainwir3d | because if everyone can freely contribute to the ui... | 09:50 |
| lainwir3d | meh | 09:50 |
| ggabriel | contribute != fork | 09:50 |
| ggabriel | and there'll be a lot of forks | 09:50 |
| lainwir3d | I don't want to be using it in 6months time :P | 09:50 |
| M4rtinK | ggabriel: yeah, that is IMHO how it should be - I'm not saying they should include everything | 09:50 |
| ggabriel | it's easy to have diverging opinions wrt ux | 09:50 |
| ggabriel | M4rtinK: haven't tried gnome, but kde is uber complicated. yes, it's usable eventually, but a "normal" user will always prefer apple's approach to ux, and m$'s to a lesser extent | 09:51 |
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| M4rtinK | ggabriel: but coming from a "classic" Linux distro background (Fedora) I automatically detest any long term used out of tree patches when I see them :) | 09:51 |
| ggabriel | ok, that "will always" is my opinion/experience | 09:51 |
| phlixi_mobile__ | maybe it is a bad idea to target "the masses", because there is no reason other then privacy to use a jolla... the masses do not care about privacy and the system is far away from competing on any otjer aspect at all... (the same for openness) | 09:51 |
| leinir | for a certain and fairly restricted definition of "user" | 09:51 |
| M4rtinK | ggabriel: actually I wonder how people can use the MacOS UI - it feels ultra non-intuitive to me | 09:52 |
| ggabriel | M4rtinK: you, me and a lot of folks here may be too different to most people, sadly | 09:52 |
| M4rtinK | ggabriel: and also graphically inchorent - tons of colorful icons on the bottom and a totally flat tiny monochrome bar on top - WTF ? | 09:52 |
| ggabriel | i have evangelised in the past and some people can no longer live without a terminal | 09:52 |
| ggabriel | M4rtinK: yeah, but it's pretty | 09:53 |
| M4rtinK | ggabriel: I had even issues to log-off when I tried to use it | 09:53 |
| ggabriel | and doesn't have as many options as kde so you can't do what you want | 09:53 |
| M4rtinK | ggabriel: and I've heard the same from quite a few other tech-inclined people | 09:53 |
| ggabriel | well, but that's the issue with ux when you talk about tech-inclined people and "normal" people | 09:54 |
| ggabriel | and guess which group contains most | 09:54 |
| ggabriel | hence where most money is | 09:54 |
| ggabriel | and so on | 09:54 |
| lainwir3d | honestly, I think people like whatever they used first | 09:54 |
| ggabriel | i'm kinda being devil's advocate for jolla and any other company that wants to survive by paying salaries and so on | 09:54 |
| lainwir3d | I put my mother on KDE the first time she had her own computer | 09:54 |
| lainwir3d | never had any trouble using it | 09:54 |
| ggabriel | sure - if you evangelise | 09:55 |
| lainwir3d | and she's lost when using windows | 09:55 |
| lainwir3d | not really honestly | 09:55 |
| lainwir3d | no more than I have to evangelise windows to my father | 09:55 |
| ggabriel | and you'd be right | 09:55 |
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| lainwir3d | I had to explain KDE to her the same as I had to explain windows to my father the first time | 09:55 |
| ggabriel | and you'd need todo the same with mac os | 09:55 |
| ggabriel | but guess what... there are more mac os/win users than kde | 09:56 |
| lainwir3d | so yeah, people have difficulties with linux UIs because mostly they aren't used to them IMO | 09:56 |
| lainwir3d | yeah :) | 09:56 |
| lainwir3d | that's true | 09:56 |
| lainwir3d | but that doesn't mean KDE or GNOME is more difficult | 09:56 |
| lainwir3d | just different | 09:56 |
| ggabriel | kde has too many options | 09:56 |
| ggabriel | that's the issue to me | 09:56 |
| ggabriel | well, top issue | 09:56 |
| ggabriel | settings is a bit of a mess, but that's shared with any other ui | 09:57 |
| ggabriel | (yes, apple, including yours) | 09:57 |
| M4rtinK | (also KDE still can't do independent desktops on different monitors, Gnome can do that) | 09:57 |
| lainwir3d | :) | 09:57 |
| ggabriel | ux is such a difficult subject tbh | 09:57 |
| ggabriel | and yet, and yet... the dynamic rotation of sfos is treasure for me | 09:58 |
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| lainwir3d | well, N9 / Sailfish has been a blessing for me | 09:59 |
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| lainwir3d | haven't tried new 2.0 UI | 09:59 |
| lainwir3d | but from what I've seen, seems fine enough | 10:00 |
| lainwir3d | and still lights years ahead of android and consort | 10:00 |
| lainwir3d | but one thing I like, is customability | 10:00 |
| lainwir3d | so please : more options :P | 10:00 |
| lainwir3d | (that's why I love KDE) | 10:00 |
| M4rtinK | lainwir3d: +1 | 10:00 |
| M4rtinK | lainwir3d: (there is no one-size-fits-all) | 10:01 |
| ggabriel | maybe there should be loads of options in an advanced kind of paage in settings | 10:01 |
| ggabriel | so, go there at your own risk if you don't like the mainstream approach | 10:01 |
| lainwir3d | yeah :) | 10:01 |
| M4rtinK | ggabriel: Gnome Shell has gnome tweak tool for that | 10:01 |
| ggabriel | M4rtinK: I sense you like gnome :P | 10:01 |
| M4rtinK | ggabriel: while it is not part of the official settings, it is maintained by the developers and is part of the project | 10:02 |
| ggabriel | M4rtinK: the only contentious problem there is when the mainstream ux dims one of those options useless | 10:02 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, still an issue | 10:02 |
| ggabriel | and it isn't a technical issue | 10:02 |
| ggabriel | it's more a psycological one | 10:03 |
| ggabriel | e.g., quick close in sfos 1.1.9 | 10:03 |
| M4rtinK | close or lock ? ;-) | 10:03 |
| ggabriel | it affects me personally, i'll survive though. my heart won't stop beating for that, nor my brain will stop consuming potasium | 10:03 |
| ggabriel | sorry, lock | 10:03 |
| M4rtinK | (swipe down to close can be enabled) | 10:03 |
| ggabriel | yes, sorry, I meant lock | 10:03 |
| M4rtinK | I don't think I ever used it | 10:03 |
| M4rtinK | there is the power button for that | 10:04 |
| M4rtinK | (could be muscle memory from using the N900) | 10:04 |
| lainwir3d | I use it from time to time, but yeah mostly i used power | 10:04 |
| ggabriel | yes - but you know what I mean "how come I made this very cool patch and now it's useless" | 10:04 |
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| lainwir3d | well, i use it when people are looking, because it's more classy. | 10:04 |
| ggabriel | the only response to that is fork | 10:04 |
| lainwir3d | and cool | 10:04 |
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| ggabriel | and suddenly you have hundreds of forks | 10:04 |
| M4rtinK | ggabriel: no issue with that - let evolution sort them out :) | 10:05 |
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| M4rtinK | you won't have hundreds of forks for long - well, unless we are talking Android kernels :D | 10:05 |
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| ggabriel | yeah, chaos is good sometimes | 10:06 |
| ggabriel | otoh, I quite like "good things (tm)" to be enforced | 10:06 |
| inte | my parents are also using kde | 10:06 |
| inte | coming from windows xp | 10:07 |
| inte | no big deal at all | 10:07 |
| ggabriel | e.g., central messaging system. you have to compromise a lot, but it's so good and clean in the end | 10:07 |
| ggabriel | inte: kde is a blessing after windows xp :P | 10:07 |
| lainwir3d | qml seems a bit crappy to extend via external "plugins" :-/ | 10:08 |
| inte | hehe :) | 10:08 |
| ggabriel | ok, funny comment from a "normal user". he realized that my laptop uses no menues, buttons, or anything. he said "why don't you use the software?" | 10:08 |
| ggabriel | made me laugh for a while | 10:08 |
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| locusf | https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/ | 10:08 |
| lainwir3d | try to import something that don't exist ? well no, even if you are not using it, it breaks everything | 10:08 |
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| inte | eventually, how can i write a patch to bring eventsview back in the right order? | 10:08 |
| locusf | cybette: Stskeeps: tigeli: ^ | 10:08 |
| inte | is there some documentation? | 10:09 |
| inte | ggabriel: what ui are you using on your laptop? | 10:10 |
| ggabriel | inte: openbox | 10:10 |
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| ggabriel | there's a menu, but you have to know how to launch it | 10:10 |
| ggabriel | and no icons | 10:10 |
| ggabriel | this'd be impossible in a touch UI, else i'd be running gentoo on the phone :P | 10:10 |
| lainwir3d | :) | 10:11 |
| lainwir3d | I used to love fluxbox | 10:11 |
| lainwir3d | haven't use it in quite some time though | 10:11 |
| inte | lmgtfm | 10:12 |
| tbr | locusf: that's barking up the wrong tree though, IMO. It's been made clear that jolla doesn't care and doesn't allocate their employees time to this. It's a private people, private time matter. | 10:12 |
| locusf | tbr: on what? | 10:13 |
| tbr | locusf: and yes, I realize the rather glaring disconnect between this and jolla being the main (only?) mer user/contributor as of recent. | 10:13 |
| locusf | tbr: ok topic #1 | 10:13 |
| tbr | locusf: you asking for an update on mer merge in the abandoned sailfish meeting topic | 10:13 |
| locusf | tbr: oh | 10:14 |
| inte | i saw a wm at a friend that was basically only consisting of terminals, but i liked it very much | 10:14 |
| inte | could have been fluxbox | 10:14 |
| ggabriel | sounds like it | 10:14 |
| ggabriel | openbox is similar | 10:14 |
| Tegu | dwm | 10:14 |
| inte | yeah | 10:14 |
| ggabriel | but ofc you do have to have a browser and so on | 10:14 |
| Tegu | i3 is my choice | 10:14 |
| inte | always wanted to try it but forgot the name:) | 10:14 |
| phlixi_mobile__ | links? ;-) | 10:15 |
| phlixi_mobile__ | links2 | 10:15 |
| tbr | locusf: I don't mean to stop you. I just hope you don't have too high expectations for this. | 10:15 |
| inte | Tegu: i guess it WAS i3 | 10:15 |
| M4rtinK | tbr, locusf: the more stuff Jolla is ignoring you can point at, the better IMHO | 10:16 |
| M4rtinK | tbr, locusf: should provide at least *some* pressure | 10:16 |
| ggabriel | omitting or ignoring? :) | 10:16 |
| tbr | M4rtinK: I personally find it sad and am past the point where I try to achieve anything, especially after being insulted and accused of rather nasty things by jolla employees. *shrug* | 10:17 |
| M4rtinK | also one has the peace of mind for doing his part of the deal, which is also quite important imho | 10:17 |
| tbr | basically I do my own thing and DGIAF | 10:17 |
| ggabriel | tbr: it certainly can get quite heated, I wouldn't take it personally | 10:18 |
| * ggabriel looking for that 2007 post again | 10:18 | |
| jaacoppi | Dhank God It Ain't Friday? | 10:18 |
| tbr | ggabriel: personal accusations have been made, an apology was never made. don't belittle this. | 10:18 |
| ggabriel | tbr: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=119318909016582 | 10:19 |
| ggabriel | tbr: not trying to enhance/belittle anything fwiw | 10:19 |
| ggabriel | just calling what i've seen in the community of pretty much everything for years | 10:19 |
| tbr | ggabriel: that is theo de rant... that's how people expect him to be | 10:20 |
| ggabriel | :) | 10:20 |
| tbr | also he was not expressly and emphasizedly wielding his position in the organization to underline his threats | 10:20 |
| M4rtinK | ggabriel: I'm afraid that from what I have gathered this was quite a bit worse than the usual "go fuck yourself" on a mailing list | 10:21 |
| M4rtinK | ggabriel: at least that's the feeling I got from this without knowing the specifics | 10:21 |
| tbr | as this is going rather negative I suggest EOD | 10:21 |
| tbr | I had no intention to drag this out in full breadth again | 10:21 |
| ggabriel | seconded | 10:22 |
| chem|st | what is the proper user for installing apks from CLI? | 10:22 |
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| inte | chem|st: nemo i guess | 10:34 |
| inte | i always do it as nemo and it works | 10:34 |
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| inte | tbr: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=144104398132541&w=2 | 10:36 |
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| inte | ah ggabriel: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=144104398132541&w=2 | 10:36 |
| inte | theyre introducing their own openbsd hypervisor shortly | 10:37 |
| inte | lets build a mobile phone based on openbsd rather then on linux :) | 10:37 |
| inte | ok that has absolutely nothing to do with virtualization | 10:37 |
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| inte | apart from android support ;) | 10:37 |
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| ggabriel | inte: the problem with obsd is that they don't like blobs and stuff, so they are naturally incompatible with mobile/embedded/etc | 10:44 |
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| M4rtinK | well, for example the PS Vita basically runs modified FreeBSD :) | 10:48 |
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| inte | M4rtinK: oh really i didnt know that! | 10:52 |
| inte | im still waiting for the day google will change from linux to freebsd | 10:53 |
| inte | because of the gpl | 10:53 |
| ggabriel | i'm waiting for the day when google will die | 10:53 |
| Helle | inte: well, that is why Android doesn't have a GNU userland | 10:53 |
| M4rtinK | inte: it has quite a lot of other mostly BSD stuff | 10:53 |
| M4rtinK | inte: but also some LGPL stuff | 10:53 |
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| M4rtinK | inte: it has Cairo, protocol buffers, Webkit, etc. | 10:54 |
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| inte | M4rtinK: jup | 11:05 |
| inte | M4rtinK: but if they would change the kernel they could easily close-source the entire os | 11:06 |
| M4rtinK | inte: and make it not to run on 99% of hardware | 11:07 |
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| M4rtinK | inte: plus loose all the free work you get from the much bigger Linux kernel community | 11:07 |
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| ggabriel | yeah but google engineers are smarter anyway | 11:08 |
| M4rtinK | inte: and not to mention that all the vendors would still need the kernel source to patch it to hell like they are used to | 11:08 |
| ggabriel | </sarcasm> | 11:08 |
| M4rtinK | they definitely think that quite often ! :) (NIH :P) | 11:08 |
| Sidde | ggabriel: don't know if googles engineers are so smart. android is such a problem platform in so many ways | 11:09 |
| Sidde | *problematic | 11:10 |
| ggabriel | Sidde: you missed my closing tag | 11:10 |
| Sidde | ggabriel: ah, then i totally agree | 11:10 |
| ggabriel | "let us fix email" and such | 11:10 |
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| M4rtinK | I would not call it "problem platform" | 11:10 |
| Sidde | let us do the Windows 95 era with spyware/adware/virus all over again... | 11:10 |
| M4rtinK | better word for it is | 11:11 |
| M4rtinK | "total disaster" | 11:11 |
| Sidde | like i used to fix my parents computers. Now i need to fix their android phones too. Cleaning them from adware and stuff | 11:11 |
| Sidde | i don't even understand how google can accept adware in their fucking store | 11:12 |
| Sidde | bogus antivirus software and stuff | 11:12 |
| M4rtinK | Google likes adds :) | 11:12 |
| Lieke | it's an ad compandy, what do you expect? | 11:12 |
| Lieke | company* | 11:12 |
| Sidde | Lieke: promote their own ads maybe | 11:12 |
| Sidde | i really hope jolla survives a few years more | 11:13 |
| Sidde | because CM is more or less the only option, and it is shit | 11:14 |
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| inte | Im looking forward to kde mobile | 11:19 |
| inte | makes sense to me | 11:20 |
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| inte | i only dislike they build on ubuntu phone not on nemo | 11:20 |
| inte | and i actually dont understand why they do that | 11:20 |
| inte | probably because the main support is cominng from the kubuntu team | 11:20 |
| inte | id love kde mobile build on mer | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | loving your tools too much | 11:21 |
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| inte | wasnt there a "marc as read" option in email? | 11:31 |
| inte | for multiple mails? | 11:31 |
| inte | like, mark all as read? | 11:31 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm fairly sure there wasn't a 'marc as read' | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:31 |
| Helle | marc, lol | 11:31 |
| inte | hehe | 11:31 |
| inte | sorry yeah | 11:31 |
| narchie | rip jolla | 11:32 |
| inte | https://blog.jolla.com/sailfish-os-aaslakkajarvi/ | 11:33 |
| tadzik | :D | 11:33 |
| inte | Email: you can now select and mark multiple emails as read/unread | 11:33 |
| tadzik | marc | 11:33 |
| inte | is that also something that was removed for no reason? | 11:33 |
| kimmoli | wut ? it is still there | 11:34 |
| inte | but wasnt it just a pull down, like "mark all read"? | 11:35 |
| kimmoli | email app, pulldown, select messages, [actually select some messages], icon appears in bottom part of screen | 11:35 |
| kimmoli | no, unless you had some patchy | 11:35 |
| kimmoli | there is "select all" | 11:36 |
| inte | icon appearing for me are | 11:36 |
| inte | ah | 11:36 |
| inte | got it | 11:36 |
| inte | didnt realise the meaning of the open-letter icon | 11:36 |
| kimmoli | closed letter is mark unread | 11:36 |
| kimmoli | marc | 11:36 |
| inte | ok thx | 11:36 |
| inte | hehe | 11:36 |
| rqper_ | , | 11:42 |
| rqper_ | . | 11:43 |
| inte | https://together.jolla.com/question/84391/hyc-dont-replace-cover-action-pulls-with-buttons/ | 11:43 |
| inte | asked mar 2? | 11:43 |
| inte | was it known for so long that jolla is going to replace the cover-action-swipes agains buttons? | 11:44 |
| tadzik | yeah | 11:44 |
| Temppu-Teme | love the first comment there "They should change something, do thing others. You will need to adjust you." | 11:44 |
| tadzik | devices were in the wild | 11:44 |
| ggabriel | people love a good button too | 11:44 |
| inte | Temppu-Teme: you like? so why is there no upvote for it? SCNR :) | 11:45 |
| inte | ggabriel: no one used to sfos likes the stupid tinytiny buttons in the tiles | 11:45 |
| inte | they suck | 11:45 |
| ggabriel | sadly, I don't think the masses understood the covers | 11:46 |
| inte | everybuddy is hitting the tinytiny buttons on the tiny tiles by accident | 11:47 |
| ggabriel | and they are in danger of extinction | 11:47 |
| inte | so either remove cover actions or bring back the old, swipe style cover actions | 11:47 |
| inte | but now it sucks BIG TIME | 11:47 |
| ggabriel | you can't bring back the swipe action | 11:47 |
| inte | and still i havent found a way to downgrade | 11:47 |
| ggabriel | it's explained in release note | 11:47 |
| inte | ggabriel: why? | 11:47 |
| lainwir3d | from what I read, it seems there is quite a lot of accidentaly hit of the cover action :-( | 11:47 |
| ggabriel | because now the multitasking view has those gestures for something else | 11:47 |
| inte | having eventsview aside homescreen is another thing that really sucks | 11:48 |
| lainwir3d | haven't tried myself, but it seems to be a problem on the phone | 11:48 |
| lainwir3d | I guess it won't be as problematic on the tablet | 11:48 |
| ggabriel | that may well be possible | 11:48 |
| inte | ggabriel: for what are the side swipes used now? | 11:48 |
| ggabriel | inte: sec | 11:48 |
| inte | only to access the eventsview | 11:48 |
| inte | aka caroussell | 11:48 |
| inte | if the eventsview would have stayed where it was | 11:48 |
| inte | it could have acted as starting point for the caroussel | 11:49 |
| ggabriel | inte: "Active cover actions are now tappable. Swipe gestures are now reserved for view navigation in the homescreen" | 11:49 |
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| ggabriel | from https://together.jolla.com/question/107685/release-notes-119eineheminlampi-early-access/ | 11:49 |
| inte | ggabriel: yes | 11:49 |
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| ggabriel | so, the only option is to remove | 11:49 |
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| ggabriel | or maybe they'll remove on the phone and keep on the tablet | 11:49 |
| inte | so, navigation in the homescreen is changing from homescreen to eventsview and potentional partner spaces | 11:49 |
| inte | thats the navigation | 11:50 |
| ggabriel | whatever the case may be | 11:50 |
| ggabriel | i'm still on 1.1.7 fwiw | 11:50 |
| inte | as i said, if eventsview would have kept its previous horizontal position | 11:50 |
| ggabriel | if you keep events view there, then something else has to go | 11:50 |
| inte | and partnerspace would have gone aside eventsview | 11:50 |
| ggabriel | so you can't launch applications as easily | 11:50 |
| inte | well, what was the problem launching apps before | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | so, they want to fix it | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | and clearly there are compromises (I hate that word) | 11:51 |
| inte | and, how often do you launch apps compared to looking on eventsview and accessing cover actions? | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | in a nutshell, more people seem to be interested in launching things faster than in using cover actions | 11:51 |
| inte | why not make it optional then | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | there's a tjc for that | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | to configure gestures | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | dangerous though | 11:51 |
| inte | currently its a mess | 11:51 |
| ggabriel | you can brick your device :P | 11:52 |
| inte | ggabriel: your lucky your still on 1.1.7 | 11:52 |
| inte | far more usable | 11:52 |
| ggabriel | optionally switching off cover actions seems to be [yet another] good compromise | 11:52 |
| inte | i wouldnt have thought things get that bad | 11:52 |
| ggabriel | sadly | 11:52 |
| inte | well thats what i proposed on tjc | 11:52 |
| ggabriel | the first iteration of the UI was way too advanced for the masses IMO | 11:52 |
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| inte | :) | 11:52 |
| inte | sacastically, at least part of | 11:52 |
| * ggabriel not being sarcastic there | 11:53 | |
| inte | ggabriel: but now its even worse | 11:53 |
| ggabriel | there is a lot of power in the first iteration | 11:53 |
| ggabriel | worse for you maybe | 11:53 |
| ggabriel | perhaps for me too | 11:53 |
| ggabriel | maybe some things come back in the future | 11:53 |
| inte | ggabriel: well i clarified that i actually want the old cover actions back | 11:53 |
| inte | its only the title | 11:53 |
| ggabriel | when the masses have been trained enough | 11:53 |
| ggabriel | but you can't have them back | 11:53 |
| inte | i said, please remove it until you fixed it :) | 11:53 |
| ggabriel | unless you roll back a lot of new concepts in the UI | 11:54 |
| inte | as i said | 11:54 |
| ggabriel | so it isn't as as simple as you suggest | 11:54 |
| inte | move the eventsview to where it was | 11:54 |
| inte | and put partnerspaces aside eventsview | 11:54 |
| ggabriel | you want a total roll back to 1.1.7 | 11:54 |
| inte | no | 11:54 |
| inte | what is aside eventsview in 1.1.7? | 11:54 |
| inte | ambience, right? | 11:54 |
| ggabriel | i have no clue | 11:54 |
| ggabriel | nothing in my case | 11:54 |
| inte | have a look, | 11:54 |
| tadzik | ambience, yes | 11:54 |
| tadzik | as a swipe though | 11:55 |
| inte | yeah | 11:55 |
| tadzik | I mean, edge swipe | 11:55 |
| inte | exactly | 11:55 |
| tadzik | not just regular swipe | 11:55 |
| inte | ambience now went into the pulley | 11:55 |
| ggabriel | there may be commercial challenges in burying partner spaces like that | 11:55 |
| inte | so, put the partnerspaces to where ambience were previously | 11:55 |
| inte | ggabriel: who cares about commercial stuff | 11:55 |
| inte | there is openrepos to get rid of any potential adware anyways | 11:56 |
| ggabriel | commercial stuff is interesting for paying the salaries of the people who make this happen | 11:56 |
| ggabriel | also, you realize that we are discussing all that for the sake of cover actions | 11:56 |
| inte | well still but the commercial interesst shouldnt ruin the entire system | 11:56 |
| ggabriel | which may not be too popular | 11:56 |
| ggabriel | you forget that it is your opinion | 11:56 |
| ggabriel | and mind you - i do like cover actions too | 11:57 |
| the_mgt | hm, anybody here connected to an iserv mailserver with the mail app? | 11:57 |
| ggabriel | but i can see the ui challenge | 11:57 |
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| ggabriel | the_mgt: only dovecot in my case | 11:57 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: you planning IMAP? | 11:58 |
| inte | my suggestion: ambience went to the pulley, so there is now space aside the eventsview for partnerspaces. Then there is no side swiping necessary in homeview and coveractions could remain as they were. Pleas comment on that proposal | 11:58 |
| ggabriel | i'm happy to discuss here and give my opinion, but don't want to do tjc just yet unless i feel strongly about it. not a ux expert, that's for others with a differently wired mind ;) | 11:59 |
| inte | sure | 12:00 |
| inte | but i just dont see what wrong with my idea | 12:00 |
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| ggabriel | i gave you my opinion | 12:00 |
| inte | people try to make even more complex just to keep cover actions, like with edge swipes or sth | 12:01 |
| the_mgt | ggabriel: yep, imap. I was able to connect incoming mail earlier, but wasn't able to configure outgoing later. wiped the account and now I only get timeouts. while it is working fine on the laptop, connected to the same wifi | 12:01 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: oh, so smpt is the problem then | 12:01 |
| the_mgt | not sure. earlier I got "problems with your configuration regarding incoming/outgoing", now just a general timeout | 12:01 |
| inte | your opinion was that it is necessary to have the caroussel on the same level as the homescreen as for marketing reasons, to make it easier to introduce partnerspaces, right? | 12:02 |
| the_mgt | and I can't tell the phone "fecking keep the config and try again later". I just can skip the whole thing.... | 12:02 |
| ggabriel | inte: my opinion is that you suggest to shuffle a lot of new stuff in the new UI for the sake of the swipeable cover actions | 12:02 |
| ggabriel | when I actually experience the UI, I may or may not agree with that; but from where I stand it feels a bit of an overkill and cover actions may need to go | 12:02 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: if you have access to the server, I'll check logs etc | 12:03 |
| inte | ggabriel: why is that new stuff? | 12:03 |
| ggabriel | s/I'll/I'd/ | 12:03 |
| ggabriel | inte: I understand that the new stuff is to improve navigation | 12:03 |
| inte | now its defineatly overkill | 12:03 |
| inte | the new stuff is making things worse | 12:03 |
| ggabriel | but you only mentioned cover actions | 12:04 |
| inte | previously it was: homescreen, eventsview, apps | 12:04 |
| ggabriel | so "things" is cover actions | 12:04 |
| inte | all in horizontal, homescreen, eventsview, apps | 12:04 |
| ggabriel | if more people benefit from the new navigation than the ones benefiting from cover actions, then it's a fair call | 12:04 |
| inte | now it is apps to below, events to aside | 12:04 |
| inte | plus, its hard to access events from an open app | 12:05 |
| ggabriel | fwiw, the current events view isn't rich enough to access it all the time either | 12:05 |
| inte | if you enable peaking, its only possible to one side, since the other side would minimize the app | 12:05 |
| the_mgt | ggabriel: configuration description was faulty. either starttls with port 143 or ssl on 993. no mix and match | 12:05 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: uh? I def can change those ports | 12:06 |
| inte | thats confusing, because if you change hands from time to time you have to learn the opposite movements corresponding to the app. | 12:06 |
| ggabriel | you on 1.1.9? | 12:06 |
| ggabriel | inte: I agree with that | 12:06 |
| the_mgt | I wish jolla would just borrow the autosensing routines from thunderbird. as much as i hate tb, the autosensing is superior | 12:06 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: there's a tjc for that :) | 12:06 |
| the_mgt | ggabriel: yes, I can change them | 12:06 |
| inte | ggabriel: if you disable it, you need to minimize the app, go to events view, go back and maximize again | 12:06 |
| inte | which is also quite anoying | 12:07 |
| inte | so, no. everything is worse | 12:07 |
| the_mgt | inte: öffentlicher dienst oder student? or why are you able to rant all day, uninterrupted? :) | 12:07 |
| inte | holidays:) | 12:08 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: is your cert alright? that was my top 1 problem with smtp and jolla | 12:08 |
| inte | wow, my proposal to deactivate cover actions is again back to 7 | 12:08 |
| the_mgt | inte: then spent the day with something nice and joyful ;) | 12:08 |
| inte | not to bad after it started with -2 | 12:08 |
| inte | the_mgt: right :) | 12:08 |
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| the_mgt | ggabriel: working now. I had to use ( port 993 and ssl ) xor ( port 143 and starttls ) | 12:11 |
| ggabriel | that sounds like the standard way | 12:11 |
| ggabriel | funny it times out tho | 12:12 |
| ggabriel | must be iserv | 12:12 |
| the_mgt | after about 5 minutes | 12:12 |
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| the_mgt | it's a cyrus-imap under the hood | 12:13 |
| the_mgt | odd choice | 12:13 |
| dr_gogeta86 | the_mgt, who still use cyrus-imap ? | 12:15 |
| inte | where do i find the patch to reenable pulley menus from e.g. eventsview? | 12:15 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | just for sasl nothing more | 12:15 |
| inte | or was it home? | 12:15 |
| tadzik | I'm afraid the answer is "in coderus' todo" :P | 12:16 |
| tadzik | or nowhere at all | 12:16 |
| inte | ah i thought someone said it is already done | 12:16 |
| inte | someone tried the coveractions patch from nodevel? | 12:19 |
| the_mgt | dr_gogeta86: I have no clue. iserv is a complete software/groupware for schools here in germany | 12:20 |
| the_mgt | I got reacently hired as sysop at a school using it | 12:21 |
| coderus | inte: i have no any todo for patches | 12:22 |
| coderus | tadzik: ^ | 12:22 |
| coderus | inte: why you need pulley in eventsview? | 12:22 |
| inte | wasnt it there before, like for shortcuts, e.g. camera, setting ringtons on/off e.g.? | 12:23 |
| coderus | its in lockscreen | 12:23 |
| coderus | not in eventsview | 12:23 |
| inte | ah ok | 12:24 |
| inte | anyways thats not too urgent and on the official roadmap afaik | 12:24 |
| coderus | lol | 12:24 |
| inte | i mean, bringing back the switch for ringtones | 12:24 |
| inte | lol? | 12:24 |
| coderus | that is easy, ask Ancelad or someone else | 12:25 |
| inte | but if you happen to patch something, why not rearange eventsview to where it was before and reanabled the former cover actions :) | 12:25 |
| coderus | i have more hard things to do | 12:25 |
| inte | hehe | 12:25 |
| inte | just saying :) | 12:25 |
| coderus | ask such things in tmo thread | 12:26 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: you mentioning "sysop" brings back nice memories from a simpler time | 12:28 |
| inte | is there a dedicated thread or should a open a new one? | 12:28 |
| inte | coderus: anyway, thanks a lot! | 12:28 |
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| coderus | inte: in general thread about patchmanager | 12:48 |
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| Armadillo | I have a problem with my calendar. I used a caldav account which worked very well many months. Some weeks ago their were several lipstick crashes which I think caused a crash of my calendar database | 13:05 |
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| pXd | i noticed recently the existence of /home/deploy - according to the directory details it was created on 8.8.15 - i'm wondering how it got there. | 13:05 |
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| Armadillo | all calendar entries only had the scheduled time left, no labels and descriptions and a black marking | 13:05 |
| Armadillo | I already deactivated all calendars and deleted the caldav account, but they don't disappear | 13:05 |
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| Armadillo | how can I completely clean the calendar's database? | 13:06 |
| pXd | Armadillo: https://together.jolla.com/question/67034/howto-reset-user-databases/ | 13:06 |
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| Armadillo | thanks, I'll give it a try :) | 13:07 |
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| pXd | hmm, i'm still curious about the existence of /home/deploy - i'm wondering if it was there all the time and i just didn't notice it earlier. can someone look it up whether it exists on your jolla as well? | 13:15 |
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| ggabriel | pXd: not in my case | 13:16 |
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| pXd | here there is some folder-structure under it: /home/deploy/installroot/usr/share/applications - but there are no files. | 13:18 |
| pXd | ggabriel: i see. | 13:18 |
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| pXd | hmm - according to https://sailfishos.org/develop/sdk-overview/develop-packaging-apps/ "The path /home/deploy/installroot refers to a location in the build engine virtual machine. This is not the final installation location, rather it is the location where the RPM build step looks for the files." | 13:25 |
| inte | cool there are already a couple of patches in openrepos that fix a lot | 13:27 |
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| Armadillo | pXd worked, thanks ;) | 13:30 |
| pXd | cool :) | 13:32 |
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| inte | i like the patch for the integrated pulley as replacement for cover actions | 13:36 |
| inte | someone tryed that already? | 13:36 |
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| aimless_ | Hi all, I've got a jolla that crashed while updating the OS to the current one. Now it is in a start-up loop till the jolla logo. I already tried to recover the jolla to the factory state but I always get the error: "Error while trying to bring the situation back to pre-recovery-process state, the older user data could not be found." Afterwards it is mentioned that the recovery process didnt complete successfully and finally it | 13:39 |
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| aimless_ | Can anybody give an advice how I can get the jolla alive again? | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | aimless_: what country are you in? | 13:42 |
| aimless_ | switzerland | 13:43 |
| Stskeeps | aimless_: you factory reset with the recovery menu? | 13:43 |
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| aimless_ | yes with recovery menu | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | and what error does it say exactly? | 13:44 |
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| aimless_ | [ERROR] The secondary recovery process didn't complete successfully. \n The software will now exit. | 13:45 |
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| Nicd- | aimless_: your first message was cut at "and finally it" | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | aimless_: first off, contact care | 13:46 |
| aimless_ | before there were written following warnings: | 13:47 |
| aimless_ | [WARNING] Could not restore rootfs subvolume! | 13:47 |
| aimless_ | [WARNING] Error while trying to bring the situation bach to pre-recovery-process state, the older user data could not be found. | 13:48 |
| ggabriel | aimless_: you don't happen to have a backup of p28? | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | aimless_: yeah, sounds like the filesystem is hosed | 13:49 |
| coderus | aimless_: https://thepiratebay.gd/torrent/11635275/Jolla_Factory_Image_to_Reflash_it | 13:50 |
| aimless_ | Never backed up anything, unfortunately | 13:52 |
| aimless_ | But thanks for the Torrent | 13:52 |
| ggabriel | well, officially contact care | 13:52 |
| ggabriel | if you trust hte internet, download the torrent, take the ride | 13:52 |
| aimless_ | I do trust it this time ;) | 13:52 |
| ggabriel | mind you, if your emmc is borked, you still get to contact care | 13:53 |
| coderus | aimless_: try to mount home subvolume | 13:53 |
| ggabriel | so if dd starts complaining with i/o errors | 13:53 |
| coderus | maybe you can backup data from it if success | 13:53 |
| aimless_ | Home is already Backed up !! | 13:53 |
| coderus | cool then! | 13:53 |
| aimless_ | I could surf the directory home | 13:54 |
| aimless_ | I got all my photos and videos, so nothing to lose now... | 13:54 |
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| the_mgt | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nophone-usa/the-nophone-zero | 14:42 |
| coderus | ggabriel: i have verified files in this torrent and it match my files on server, so i'm seeding it too :) | 14:43 |
| coderus | aimless_: btw, if you want i can give you direct link to thse files in private | 14:43 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: "Because human beings are more interesting than smart rectangle devices." | 14:43 |
| ggabriel | coderus: my comment was more of a disclaimer, I myself trust you ;) | 14:44 |
| ggabriel | the_mgt: I'm not sure about the veracity of that statement | 14:44 |
| the_mgt | ggabriel: see, you need to get out more | 14:44 |
| coderus | ggabriel: well, it was not me who created this torrent | 14:46 |
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| ggabriel | the_mgt: you mean if i get drunk enough, then a lot of people will seem interesting; there may be some truth there | 14:49 |
| the_mgt | but no touching the phone | 14:49 |
| ggabriel | i normally don't do that, to be fair | 14:49 |
| ggabriel | well, unless somebody wants to see pics of a recent holiday or something | 14:50 |
| ggabriel | i don't carry my hard copies around ;) | 14:50 |
| the_mgt | hehe | 14:52 |
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| *** Dreamer2000_ is now known as inte | 18:50 | |
| inte | hello | 18:50 |
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| inte | after installing pulldown cover actions from openrepos im in a much better mood now | 18:51 |
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| inte | sorry for being rude today:) | 18:51 |
| inte | one more question | 18:52 |
| inte | is alien dalvik having problems with internet connections when switching from wifi to mobile? | 18:52 |
| inte | had to resrart it since it wouldnt recognize im connected... | 18:53 |
| aaaaaaaaaaaaaa | any poss mazelock work on sf 2 ? | 18:54 |
| inte | not yet i heard | 18:55 |
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| inte | great there is a mute control in OR now | 19:10 |
| inte | SailfishOS Community is awesome!! :) | 19:10 |
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| Tegu | OR? | 19:12 |
| kimmoli | openrepost | 19:12 |
| aaaaaaaaaaaaaa | openrepos? | 19:12 |
| r0kk3rz_ | needs more on obs than or | 19:13 |
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| Tegu | ahh | 19:13 |
| inte | i have to admit that with having cover pullies installed i tend to really like sf2.0 :) | 19:15 |
| inte | now someone really has to bring back the reload button for the browser then im totally fine | 19:17 |
| inte | :) | 19:17 |
| r0kk3rz_ | inte you should be able to patch the qml to get it back | 19:18 |
| r0kk3rz_ | maybe even find the git commit that took it out | 19:19 |
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| waxberry | HtheB are you here? Now I do have probem for recovery... | 19:26 |
| aaaaaaaaaaaaaa | sf2 for public users we w8 2 weeks ? | 19:31 |
| inte | r0kk3rz_ i might check that | 19:35 |
| inte | out in town now:) | 19:36 |
| r0kk3rz_ | aaaaaaaaaaaaaa: maybe next week unless problems | 19:36 |
| inte | have nice eveningt @all!! | 19:36 |
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| HtheB | hey waxberry | 19:48 |
| waxberry | hey | 19:50 |
| waxberry | Finally find you ;) | 19:51 |
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| waxberry | I'm trying out https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204709607 | 19:51 |
| HtheB | waxberry: check pm | 19:51 |
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| FearF | <3 | 21:54 |
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