#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2015-07-01

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citylight2hi all, I found this odd bug:08:03
citylight21. start a phone call 2. while the call is in state ringing, start a bluetooth headset that will automatically connect to the jolla. 3. When the call is established, the remote side is in call waiting.08:05
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citylight24. now your headphone ring like when receiving a call. 5. end the call 6. headset still rings. 6. power cycle the headset 7. they keep ringing08:06
citylight2the only way to end it is to power cycle the jolla08:06
citylight2is this a known issue?08:06
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cos-citylight2: check tjc, and file a report if it's not there08:28
citylight2cos-: first asking here08:29
citylight2as some QA members may be here, listening to the people08:29
citylight2us simple ppl08:29
narchieso how can I export my contacts to sim08:29
narchieor is that still shipping may 201508:29
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japa-fi_citylight2, Just a sec, I'll test with my headset08:39
citylight2I repreduced it08:42
japa-fi_Same here08:43
japa-fi_now, that is annoying :)08:43
japa-fi_Even setting BT off from the phone and then back on, still riningn08:44
citylight2yes, power cycling the BT dis not solve this08:49
citylight2I had it half a year ago, and forgot to report it08:49
citylight2so I guess this is not reported yet08:49
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jubalhhi11:35
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jubalhconsidering buying a jolla phone11:35
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jubalhi heard the maemo was based on debian11:36
jubalhnow checked if telegram is available on jolla, and found https://openrepos.net/content/marco73f/jollagram but i saw an rpm there?11:36
Stskeepswe're more of a deriative of meego, we're not debian based11:36
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Stskeepsubuntu touch is debian based, but they are not really using debian packages for apps11:37
gogetahi Stskeeps11:38
Stskeepsmoo11:38
gogetai saw many hoax on twitter ...11:38
Stskeepsplenty11:38
gogetabut why11:42
gogetaI know you are on fully throttle11:42
Stskeepsi don't understand what you're asking :)11:42
Nicd-jolla has 5 days to release info about next SFOS device manufacturer before my summer holidays11:43
Nicd-don't fail me :D11:43
Stskeepsthe secret obviously being that we cancelled summer holidays for everybody :p11:43
kimmoliso jolla has failed those who has already started holidays?11:44
Nicd-kimmoli: yes11:44
Nicd-a promise is a promise ;)11:44
kimmolilucky me, i have still 1,5 week11:44
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gogetabtw I'm cheering for you11:50
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kimmolihttp://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtcanvas3d-index.html11:56
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ilpianistaI know that android app support is attractive, but really some simple android application should be denied with "please buddy, implement it using Sailfish SDK"12:34
ilpianista</rant>12:34
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jaacoppigood rant12:42
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tadzikI know that writing apps is gratifying, but really some messaging apps should be telepathy plugins so we can use Messages for Messaging ffs12:42
tadzik</rant>12:42
SfietKonstantinWkimmoli: Qt 3D canvas looks so awesome; Did you saw the demo from QuitCoding ?12:42
ilpianistajaacoppi, thanks :-)12:42
ilpianistatadzik, in part I agree, in part not12:42
ilpianistatadzik, by using messages you cannot send e.g. your position or stuff like that (or I'm wrong? I hope so in this case)12:43
tadzikyeah, that's a fair point. I think it makes sense to pester Jolla to implement those for messages :)12:43
ilpianista+1 then12:43
SfietKonstantinWyou can send whatever you want from telepathy12:44
SfietKonstantinWit is up to the client to handle the interpretation of data12:44
ilpianistaSfietKonstantinW, but not from the Messaging app, that's the point12:44
SfietKonstantinWyou need to have the gui supporting it12:44
tadzikright12:44
SfietKonstantinWindeed, and that's the problem currently ...12:45
chem|stMessaging is so pointless atm12:47
tadzikhow so?12:47
chem|stno support for nothing in the UI and telepathy seems like a dead horse12:47
tadzikah, the Messaging app12:47
chem|sttadzik: the current state yes12:48
ilpianistas/Messaging/Messages :-p12:48
tadzikI'm happy how it works for xmpp and used to work for facebook12:48
chem|stilpianista: ta12:48
tadzikthatwas like in the good ol' N900 days12:48
ilpianistasame for me, xmpp + sms is cool12:48
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chem|sttadzik: happy? no carbon, no files, no voice, no pgp, no otr...12:49
tadzikI don't use any of these, so happy12:49
tadzikI'm not saying that it's perfect :)12:49
chem|stwell facebook still works12:49
chem|stthey haven't turned it off yet12:50
ilpianistaI also see another problem here: every comunication service used by people (common people, not nerds) provides proprietary APIs and then I don't know if I would invest my time in some reversed engignered protocol (e.g. whatsAPI, hangoups, facebook?)12:51
tadzikjolla has12:51
chem|sttadzik: fb uses xmpp, just add a new account12:51
tadzikhuh, true that12:51
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tadzikonly the jolla-facebook-account integration is gone12:52
chem|stilpianista: proper xmpp would be just enough for me12:52
kimmoliSfietKonstantinW:  i'm not sure, i have seen some demo12:52
chem|sttadzik: it behaves the same as if fb-integration is still working, only change is that Messages has "xmpp" shown instead...12:53
tadzikright12:53
tadzikI mean: you need two accounts now12:53
chem|styes12:54
chem|stin terms of SFsecure I'd like to see full whispersystems integration12:54
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ilpianistachem|st, yeah12:56
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TemeVilpianista: I have to advertise Telegram again, it has open API :) (yes yes, it is cenralized and server is close, and encryption is broken)13:00
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TemeV*server is closed source13:00
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ilpianistaTemeV, thank you for the extra words in the brachets13:01
ilpianista:-)13:01
SfietKonstantinWkimmoli: http://blog.qt.io/blog/2015/07/01/qt-5-5-released/13:02
SfietKonstantinWchem|st: +113:02
ilpianistaqt location \o/13:02
kimmoliyes i read that13:02
SfietKonstantinWcinematic experience 3D :)13:03
tadzikilpianista: I have to advertise Matrix, it's open everything :)13:04
SfietKonstantinWI guess that gstreamer 1.0 in Qt 5.5 is good news for us :)13:04
* ilpianista look at Matrix13:05
jubalhi thought meego was debian based, maybe i am wrong. so the rpm, its special to the sailfish os?13:05
Stskeepsmeego.com was rpm based13:05
SfietKonstantinWjubalh: Sailfish OS is not "meego Harmattan" based13:05
SfietKonstantinWwhat Stskeeps said13:06
Stskeepsmeego harmattan was a terrible terrible choice of naming that i one day should ask who came up with13:06
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jubalh well i just found this link when looking for a telegram client for jolla: https://openrepos.net/content/marco73f/jollagram13:08
chem|stjubalh: stupid name for a world where instgram is usually stuff with *gram app wise13:09
tadzikhaha13:09
jubalhwell, i dont care :p13:10
chem|sttelefish would be suitable13:10
jubalhi am just trying to make up my mind to buy a jolla or not13:10
SfietKonstantinWtelegram => an instagram client working with telepathy13:10
SfietKonstantinW:P13:10
chem|stjubalh: what is holding you back?13:10
tadzikhey, at least it's not TeleQt or so13:10
jubalhand i would like to have telegram on it13:10
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tadzikI don't understand why people name apps after the technology that they use13:10
SfietKonstantinWQtGram13:10
SfietKonstantinWtadzik: why not13:11
SfietKonstantinWespecially Qt => cute13:11
SfietKonstantinW:)13:11
tadzikthat's a fun part, yes :)13:11
tadziklike CuteSpot13:11
jubalhchem|st, well actually my android phone still works, so i am not sure if i should invest the money. but i would like to switch away from android and heard jolla is good. so i wsa looking if the apps i need run there13:11
SQUelcherWinWord13:11
SfietKonstantinWiCloud, iTunes etc.13:11
tadzikmust be my irrational pet peeve13:11
TemeVright now I would wait what they publish about the new phone13:12
tadzikprobably comes from reading news like "Announcing XXX written in Python" -- is the fact that it's written in Python is its advantage? Main selling point? Is it a surprise that python is capable of it?13:13
TemeVshould be soon if they keep the before holidays promise13:13
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tadzikoh, and it's mailman day today, yay13:14
tadzikwhoever thought these reminders are a good idea..13:14
SfietKonstantinWtadzik: we are not saying that it is written in python13:15
SfietKonstantinWwe are just branding the app13:15
SfietKonstantinWQtTelegram would mean: telegram in a Qt ecosystem (whatever that means)13:15
SfietKonstantinWsame for the i for Apple producs, k for KDE ones, g for Google products etc.13:15
SfietKonstantinWas it makes sense for libs (libqofono etc.) it makes less sense for end-users yeah13:16
tadzikyeah, that's what I'm thinking13:16
tadzikas I user, when I see something labeled "this is an xxx in qml", I think "so the qml part is what should interest me in it? Not the usability, the features?"13:16
TemeVi for apple makes sense because it tells what platform it can run on13:19
TemeVkind of same for kde13:20
TemeVbut yeah for qt, it makes no sense13:20
jubalhwell still not sure whether i should get one or not :p13:20
tadzikyeah, those things are quite one-platform-only13:20
tadzikjubalh: Jolla? Yes, do13:20
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jubalhi heard there is something with codes to get them cheaper?13:21
jubalhsorry guys, my english is not perfect and i dont know the exact word13:21
tadzikcoupons float around every now and then, I haven't see any for a while though13:21
jubalhhow much will it cost with a coupon?13:21
TemeVi think there isn't any campaign going on13:21
SfietKonstantinWTemeV: for SailfishOS, we have kinda the same naming13:22
TemeVthere has been -50e coupons, but I don't know if they work anymore13:22
SfietKonstantinW<something>fish13:22
TemeVSfietKonstantinW: true, and it makes sense also13:23
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TemeVor sail<something>13:23
jubalhok, and jolla has a future? i would like to stick with a phone for a while ;) whats the reason you guys use it?13:24
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jubalhi only read few articles, but it seems its what i am looking for. though i am not sure yet13:26
merlin1991I needed a replacemebt for the n913:26
merlin1991One that's essier hackable, and jolla fits that13:26
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merlin1991Jeez i'm still not used to the keyboard xD13:26
jubalhi need something more linuxish than android. where i can really do what i want, if i want. also i like qt, though i only programmed a little in it. in case of apps i just needs mail,calendar and contact sync, and telegram. and phone of course ;) so you think it would fit that?13:27
tadzikjubalh: yes, although you should know that the device itself is flawed in some ways, and the future plan of the company seems to be to license the OS to other manufacturers rather than produce more phones13:27
tadzikand I think they were about to announce some new device soon-ish13:27
tadzikit seems to fit you. You can also install the OS on some mainly-android phones13:28
tadziksee http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris13:29
jubalhsince my old anroid phone still works, i am considering to wait for the neo90013:31
jubalhhttp://neo900.org/13:31
ggabrieltoo much to justify in my case13:32
ggabrielbut it looks nice13:32
fluxI guess only the most enthusiastic ones will be able to fork out 1000e+ for a product that may not work :-o13:32
jubalhthough i have to say its a little pricy..13:32
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jubalhwhat are the flaws of the jolla?13:32
ggabrielthe thing is... that's what it costs...13:32
ggabrieljubalh: depends who you ask :P13:33
ggabrielmy opinion is that there is no second proper jolla device in the roadmap13:33
merlin1991I don't have a working contact sync and whats telegram?13:33
fluxjubalh, well, the hardware could be better. there could be some native apps that you now need to use via the android layer.13:33
ggabrielthe rest is either perfect or heading there13:33
jubalhmerlin1991, a messenger like whatsapp13:33
politielike msn13:34
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jubalhwell, i would like to not use android apps if possible13:34
ggabrieljoin the club13:34
ggabrielaltough they are becoming more and more useless13:34
ggabrieli mentioned the other day uber13:34
ggabrielwhich started to use google services13:34
ggabrielso, i can't use it any more13:34
jubalhright now i use the  Galaxy Note (n7000) with omnirom and f-droid market. its listed on https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris so it might be i can run jolla on it?13:35
ggabrielwell, i don't want to install google services, which is a different story13:35
ggabrielso i can't use their application13:35
jubalhhmm13:35
ggabrieljubalh: check together.jolla.com for hardware adaptation, there is some stuff in there13:35
ggabrielalso, there's even another channel13:35
ggabrielit isn't as easy as "insert disk 1 and press enter" though13:35
SfietKonstantinWjubalh: you might also be interested in #SailfishOS-porters13:37
SfietKonstantinWand meet the awesome sledges13:37
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ggabrielcool guy sledges13:38
jubalhthanks guys13:40
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tadzikjubalh: the battery contacts are crap14:15
tadziklots of devices have power loss problems14:15
tadzikofter fixable by a thick piece of paper14:15
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ggabrielmine never had a single issue around that area...14:19
tadzikyou're a lucky one, you14:21
ggabrielor maybe you're unlucky :)14:22
ggabrieli do admit that a piece of paper is bettre than sending in for repair14:22
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* SfietKonstantinW 's battery is dying, and no piece of paper can fix it :(14:23
ggabrielSfietKonstantinW: that could be eligible for warranty14:23
ggabrielbatteries shouldn't die14:23
SfietKonstantinWggabriel: my Jolla is too old14:23
ggabrieli'd still ask the question14:24
ggabrielmy jolla is rather old too and its bettery works ok14:24
ggabrielalmost as good as the new one i bought when i had the chance14:24
ggabrielerm, s/good/well/ (english)14:25
SfietKonstantinWlet's do battery resistance test14:25
SfietKonstantinWthe battery test is passed14:25
SfietKonstantinWbut mine is getting "fall to 4%" issue14:25
ggabrieladmittedly, i had that once or twice14:26
ggabrielrebooted, and the level was back to normal14:26
ggabrielprobably software issue14:26
ggabrielor as tadzik suggests, battery contacts14:26
tadzikit's annoying when it it says "oh shit, 0%, better power down"14:26
tadzikit could figure out that if it was 80% one second ago it's probably a glitch14:27
ggabrielthat's relative ofc14:27
ggabrielyou could be running android for example :P14:27
tadzik*giggle*14:27
tadzikor play hearthstone...14:27
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SfietKonstantinWggabriel: it seems to be "hard to measure battery discharge" issue14:30
ggabrielsounds similar to temperature issues14:30
ggabrielbut yeah, could be a faulty battery14:30
ggabrieli'd def ask care14:30
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dhbikerhello there14:55
dhbikerone question...14:55
tadzikhello dhbiker14:55
dhbikerhow is it with jolla licensing ... is it open source  `?14:55
sjtoikwell... not all14:56
dhbikeri pressume the gui frontend part is the "not all"14:57
sjtoiki saw a good table of different parts and related licensing some time ago14:58
dhbikerso coming from N900 is it good ? dissapointing ?14:58
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dhbikeri read quite mixed opinions on the interwebz14:59
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Yanielwell... it's not N900 for sure14:59
sjtoiklicensing part, or generally the environment? can't say, as i don't have experience on n90014:59
dhbikerYaniel i get that but is it worth it ?15:00
dhbikeri temporarily moved to android 5.0 device and i cant say i like it15:00
sjtoiksure it is15:00
sjtoiki haven't used android devices, but i'm not going back to lumia and windows phones15:01
YanielI would say it is15:01
SQUelcherI've never used my N900 much.. I went back to the E90 relatively quick..15:01
sjtoikouh. it's 250e now15:02
dhbikeryep15:03
sjtoikthat's a good discount. i paid the full 400'ish some years ago15:03
dhbikerprice is not the problem15:03
dhbikerim only worried that i wont get something i wish jolla does15:03
SQUelcherI've paid 199, and waiting for another discount voucher to buy one for my wife :P15:05
dhbikerhaha15:05
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dhbikerhow is it in everyday life ?15:05
sjtoikyou look at the screen, see a 23% battery, and you'll be fine the whole day15:06
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sjtoiktaken, that you live your life and don't just stare at the phone15:06
tadzikwhy have a phone if you have a life /s15:07
dhbikerhaha15:07
dhbikeri work abroad so my phone rarely gets attention15:07
dhbikerbut when it does its specific usage15:07
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sjtoiki like how the UI is optimized for one handed use15:10
dhbikerheh15:11
sjtoikbut... you don't have flash support, so no porn15:12
dhbikerno flash support ?15:12
dhbikerouch...15:12
sjtoikdon't know if there is a way. haven't bothered to check out15:13
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rigoflash is a disease, it shouldn't be on a phone15:16
dhbikeri take it youtube works ?15:16
dhbikerhtml5 stuff ?15:17
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Yanielyes15:17
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dhbikerwifi stuff ?15:17
dhbikerWPA2 enterprise and such ?15:17
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cb400fe.g. for eduroam you can't configure it in the gui, you need to create a configuration file for connman15:19
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dhbikeroh k15:20
dhbikerso still workable15:21
cb400fyup15:21
* cb400f luvs his jolla longtime15:21
cb400fbut I came from the N9 which was my only other smartphone ever15:21
cb400fJolla beats it in every department imo, except maybe in physical durability15:22
cb400fbut the N9 was also much more expensive15:23
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dhbikeri take it other half  mods are welcome ?15:28
dhbikerif i decide to make one and publish it ?15:28
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cb400fthe tohkbd2 (physical qwerty keyboard) was very succesful with a crowdfunding campaign15:29
dhbikeri saw it yeah15:29
merlin_1991N9 had working wpa enterprise from the gui ;)15:30
merlin_1991Hell even n900 had that15:30
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cb400fbut I guess we all hope that the Jolla is coming to the end of its cycle soon, and that a new phone comes out maybe even this year15:31
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cb400for at least gets announced this year15:31
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dhbikernew phone15:32
dhbikerhmm15:32
cb400fwell, personally I'm very happy with my Jolla, and I'm kind of glad not to be tempted to upgrade it needlessly :-)15:33
tiwakea new phone needs to come out so I can buy my first jolla phone :P15:33
dhbikerhahha15:34
cb400ftiwake: you'll need to make do with the tablet for a while then ;-)15:35
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tiwakemy N900 is functional still15:35
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tiwakebut enh15:35
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tiwakeI also want to buy a house, a new server, and a badass 10G network to do fun things with15:37
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tiwakeamong other things15:37
merlin1991In that order?15:38
tiwakeit almost has to15:38
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tiwakeCAT7 cable is so thick because of all the insulation, and setting it up in somebody else house is very sub optimal15:39
dhbikeri have cat715:41
dhbikerpretty sweet stuff but horrible if you look at it in practical sense15:41
tiwakenot to mention about $1000-$2000 in routing equipment15:41
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dhbikeryep15:41
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tiwakedhbiker: to be fair, properly made CNC machines (that I work with every day) all have shielded cables for all of the sensors and switches15:43
dhbikersame here15:43
dhbikerlogistics systems15:43
tiwakeand those wires would not be any less thick than a CAT7 cable :)15:43
tiwakesome of them have to flex a lot though15:44
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dhbikerwe have olflex 810 for that15:44
dhbikerhigh flex cables :P15:44
tiwakeyeah15:44
tiwakeI should buy a roll of something like that15:44
dhbikercar industry has it15:45
dhbikerwe have it15:45
SQUelcherLapp Kabel, great15:45
dhbikerexactly :D15:45
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tiwakewater based coolants... at least they know what industries its going in :)15:46
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tiwakeanyway, time to go to work, people want parts made, and I can get a house faster if more parts are done and billed for15:47
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sledgesSfietKonstantinW: ggabriel: thanks for the new recruit, he might pop over to that channel after opening hadk.pdf :D15:58
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sledgesif not heart attack:)15:59
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ManweXHi..  Has anyone tried any video-quadrocopters or similar with jolla (and unfortunately android-app). Needs wifi tethering and I'm concerned about the cpu/gpu requirements for video streaming.. (looking at micro drone 3.0 indiegogo project...)16:04
ggabrielManweX: android can't connect to wifi-paired devices afaik16:05
ggabrielat least my jolla cna't see the gopro16:05
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ggabrielother people reported the smae with similar devices16:05
ManweXreally.. at some point I used my canon powershot G16 with wifi and I had gopro installed, but I'm not sure did I test that one.. (I don't own a gopro)16:06
StskeepsManweX: if it's ad-hoc networking and not AP on the drone side it's a bit problematic16:07
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ManweXggabriel: https://together.jolla.com/question/51695/bug-android-apps-connection-problems-with-wlan/?answer=53791#post-id-53791 so a year a ago I managed to connect wifi+android devices.. Have to check again..16:10
ggabrielManweX: i saw/tried that16:10
ggabrieldidn't work [with a gopro]16:11
ggabrieldidn't try again for a few updates though16:11
ggabrielbut you ask a more fundamental question: WILL it work with an indiegogo project16:11
ggabrielif it's a deal breaker, well, i'd recommend against ;)16:11
ManweXok.. I have try my canon again.. I mainly just copy the pictures with sdcard, so I don't usually browse and I have android tablet for that now16:11
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ggabrieltbh, i connect to the gopro from sailfish and use the browser16:12
ggabrieli can see the snapshots that way :P16:12
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dariornelashi! I'm having a strange problem with the sailfish browser. the web pages don't load!16:40
Stskeepsare the wifi and data connection enabled at same time?16:40
dariornelasyes. But I've just tested with dat connection off, and still don't load16:42
dariornelas*data16:42
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dariornelasyesterday, I removed the sailfish-browser and reinstalled, it solved the problem temporally!16:45
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sledgesdariornelas: do you get connectivity outside browser?16:55
dariornelasyes! in everything16:56
* sledges is typing on tohkbd via fingerterm, feels so cool!!!16:56
sledgesto navigate irssi16:56
sledgesdariornelas: http proxy issue16:57
sledges?16:57
sledgesdo you have developer mode enabled?16:58
dariornelasyes16:58
sledgesopen fingerterm and curl webpage16:58
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dariornelasit works! and I can also use webpirate (browser)16:59
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dariornelasthe problem is only with sailfish-browser... it keeps loading the page forever, no error, no page, nothing17:00
dariornelaswhen I run the browser from the terminal it gives me this http://susepaste.org/3833313917:00
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sledgesdariornelas: rpm -q sailfish-browser17:07
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dariornelassledges, sailfish-browser-1.2.35-10.11.1.jolla.armv7hl17:09
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ManweXdariornelas: did you try another page ? ;)17:12
sledgesmaybe situ could help?17:13
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sledgesah, he's on #sailfishos channel17:14
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dariornelasthanks17:15
sledgesnp, hope you'll be helped17:17
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Venemo_jhey17:36
tbrmoo17:37
Stskeepsm0017:37
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pdanekhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irNBGuklQiU21:16
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onlais that a jolla competitor22:23
onlais it more or less open source overall22:24
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