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| kimmoli | http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/08/business/uber-joins-the-bidding-for-here-nokias-digital-mapping-service.html&_r=0 | 05:06 |
|---|---|---|
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| mornfall | hm, Here is for sale too... interesting | 05:38 |
| Stskeeps | makes you wonder if it'll still be a service for sale afterwards | 05:39 |
| mornfall | depends on your contract, I imagine | 05:40 |
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| mornfall | well, here's contracts in general... it might be very expensive to cut them off | 05:43 |
| mornfall | and surely, the map data alone is not worth $3000M | 05:44 |
| Stskeeps | map data and cellular and wifi data is for sure worth .. | 05:45 |
| temmi_foo | i'm believing the contracts is what was actually bought and the data and app is just means to keep the contracts | 05:45 |
| Jope | I'd have much rather seen tesla buy here | 05:46 |
| Jope | but it's not amerikkalainen so obviously it's gonna be shit, eh | 05:46 |
| mornfall | what would tesla do with it? | 05:46 |
| Jope | they have a honking great TFT in the centre of the car's dashboard | 05:46 |
| Jope | they would probably display world class maps on it | 05:46 |
| Jope | they already are, but I seem to remember they're google's maps that you see now | 05:46 |
| mornfall | they don't have to shell out 3 billion dollars for that | 05:46 |
| temmi_foo | is it already possible to dim the backlight at night time? | 05:46 |
| Jope | mornfall, vertical integration rules! | 05:47 |
| mornfall | no it doesn't | 05:47 |
| Jope | if you don't own something, someone's gonna take it away :-D | 05:47 |
| Jope | yesss it does :_D | 05:47 |
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| mornfall | you sound like IBM | 05:47 |
| Jope | I sound like jack tramiel at commodore | 05:47 |
| temmi_foo | they also need to have tesla sheep providing tesla leather and tesla wool for the interior | 05:47 |
| Jope | yo sound like someone who wants to pay more for stuff you could do yourself | 05:47 |
| mornfall | my preciouss mainframe preciouss os/360 preciouss db2 preciouss websphere... meh | 05:47 |
| Jope | hahah | 05:48 |
| Jope | that is not vertical integration | 05:48 |
| Jope | that is legacy hw and sw | 05:48 |
| mornfall | actually, it is... it's also very profitable for ibm somehow | 05:48 |
| Jope | but if you deliberately want to take this to some barely related direction, then what a nice conversation, thank you. | 05:48 |
| temmi_foo | in japan the big companies have a lot of vertical integration | 05:49 |
| mornfall | temmi_foo: like canon's in-house sensors? :-) | 05:49 |
| mornfall | if anything kills canon it's going to be their lagging sensor tech | 05:49 |
| mornfall | at least in the dslr markets | 05:49 |
| temmi_foo | there's the good and bad sided of it | 05:50 |
| mornfall | yes, the bad side is that you can't keep up with competition in *all* areas | 05:50 |
| mornfall | which means you end up with a lot of legacy, in-house stuff in your deep stack | 05:50 |
| mornfall | which was my point with IBM | 05:50 |
| temmi_foo | apparently they thought it was enough when their sensors were the cheapest and the best when d30 was the first affordable dslr | 05:51 |
| Jope | ah well | 05:52 |
| temmi_foo | anyhoo | 05:52 |
| temmi_foo | i like the ford sheeps and ford mines for ford cars thing as long as all of it is kept in pace | 05:52 |
| Jope | I'm also approaching it from the getting work for my countrymen direction | 05:52 |
| Jope | do it yourself = jobs | 05:52 |
| Jope | outsource it = indian blokes will do the job | 05:52 |
| temmi_foo | you'll still pay for it | 05:53 |
| Jope | and then often your remaining local guys will have to redo some of it | 05:53 |
| Jope | but they'll be pissed off | 05:53 |
| Jope | :-D | 05:53 |
| mornfall | Jope: *that* is not vertical integration though -- lots of well-integrated business have big divisions in poor-ish countries | 05:53 |
| Jope | true true | 05:53 |
| temmi_foo | jope how nicely put "redo some of it" | 05:54 |
| Jope | such political correct | 05:54 |
| temmi_foo | :) | 05:54 |
| mornfall | that depends on your hiring policy not on where your foreign office sits exactly | 05:54 |
| mornfall | and if you outsource, well, whom do you outsource to... | 05:55 |
| mornfall | if you go for the cheapest bidder, you can't be all that surprised if junk comes out | 05:55 |
| temmi_foo | suits do and then they are | 05:57 |
| mornfall | much lower living standards in the source country are just part of the reason they are cheap; they also save a considerable amount by cutting down on-job training to absolute minimum | 05:57 |
| mornfall | it all goes together, cheap outsourcing firms have high employee turnarounds, hence it doesn't make sense for them to allocate the few experienced folk they have to mentor newbs fulltime, hence they only have newbs on their roster | 06:01 |
| mornfall | and the incentive system they use sucks too | 06:01 |
| temmi_foo | then there's the cultural attitude of how to react when you don't fully understand | 06:02 |
| temmi_foo | in here, you ask more until you do understand | 06:02 |
| temmi_foo | in other places you say yes and fake it and then produce something that clearly doesn't do the job | 06:02 |
| mornfall | well, some people do, anyway :-) | 06:02 |
| temmi_foo | then the local folks "redo some of it" | 06:03 |
| mornfall | well, I'm pretty sure their attitude would change dramatically if they wouldn't get a dime unless the thing actually did the job | 06:03 |
| mornfall | which is basically what happens with 'local folks' ... if you consistently produce junk, you are fired, end of story | 06:04 |
| temmi_foo | of course but then the suits are making the deal | 06:04 |
| temmi_foo | they just want to buy hours | 06:04 |
| temmi_foo | they get hours | 06:04 |
| mornfall | exactement | 06:04 |
| mornfall | a stupid thing to do of course, but suits will be suits | 06:05 |
| mornfall | but hey, suits get fired too ;-) | 06:05 |
| mornfall | that, or the company fails | 06:06 |
| mcfrisk | How many long does it take for Jolla to apply a patch from tjc? | 06:07 |
| chriadam | mcfrisk: depends whether the right person sees it | 06:07 |
| chriadam | mcfrisk: it's generally better to make a PR to the github component instead | 06:08 |
| chriadam | as that sends an email to the developers who deal with that repository, and can be reviewed etc properly. | 06:08 |
| mcfrisk | so gpodder is completely unusable since gstreamer is skipping low sample rate recordings, media player is listing playlists in song view and crashing... | 06:10 |
| mcfrisk | except for security patches, there hasn't been a single improvement for my Jolla since last summer in SW updates | 06:11 |
| chriadam | what's gpodder? | 06:11 |
| mcfrisk | most changes have been regressions in my usage of the device | 06:11 |
| mcfrisk | podcast player | 06:11 |
| chriadam | I don't believe that's part of Sailfish OS is it? | 06:11 |
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| mornfall | chriadam: no, but it relies on gstreamer, which is | 06:12 |
| mcfrisk | yes, but the media player stack playing the mp3's is, same problem in media player... | 06:12 |
| mornfall | chriadam: and gstreamer on sfos is apparently broken | 06:12 |
| chriadam | ok, well, let's concentrate on the Jolla Media Player | 06:12 |
| * mcfrisk goes patching media player again after update.. | 06:12 | |
| chriadam | because otherwise it's difficult for devs to test etc | 06:12 |
| chriadam | is there some simple test case which can reproduce the problem? | 06:13 |
| chriadam | if you can point me to a TJC with that sort of test case in it, I will forward it to the appropriate developer. | 06:13 |
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| mcfrisk | chriadam: https://together.jolla.com/question/30533/mediaplayer-fails-with-low-samplerates/ https://together.jolla.com/question/57206/musicmedia-player-lists-m3u-playlist-files-in-all-songs-view/ | 06:20 |
| chriadam | mcfrisk: thanks very much, I'll forward them onto the right person :-) | 06:22 |
| mcfrisk | chriadam: this is not the first time that these items with patches are forwarded to the right persons... | 06:22 |
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| mcfrisk | and what's with the alarm clock, it still does extra alarms even if I dismiss the alarm once. Set alarm to 1 minute, kill it once, 15 minutes later it still pops up. How hard is it to create an app like that... | 06:23 |
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| chriadam | mcfrisk: I just checked our internal bugtracker, and no bugs for those issues exist (at least, no open bugs). I've now created a new bug for each of those two issues and CC'd in the correct developers, so at least it has some visibility now. | 06:32 |
| chriadam | mcfrisk: extra alarms? that's not an issue I've experienced, personally. are there many people suffering from this one? is there a TJC about it? PMG ^^ | 06:33 |
| Nicd- | chriadam: were there contact sync fixes in the latest update? | 06:33 |
| chriadam | Nicd-: some were, some were not | 06:33 |
| chriadam | as always, improvements to contact sync trickle in as I find good repros which show concrete issues. I resolve the issue in master line, then if it's early enough and critical enough, they get cherry picked to various release branches | 06:34 |
| chriadam | I find it hard to keep in my head what gets released when :-/ | 06:34 |
| mcfrisk | chriadam: there are several issues about the alarm clock bugs in tjc, for example https://together.jolla.com/question/9909/alarm-clock-going-off-late-and-only-after-activating-the-display/ | 06:34 |
| chriadam | that one had no activity since June last year until your most recent comment | 06:35 |
| PMG | mcfrisk: a fix for the issue will be released a future update, do you have a new bug report? | 06:35 |
| chriadam | and that activity then was spiiroin saying that he'd created a bug internally and was fixing it | 06:35 |
| PMG | mcfrisk: alarms going off after dismissing them is certainly a bug, I'll debug & fix that if I manage to reproduce it | 06:37 |
| mcfrisk | PMG: well, I could file a new one but Jolla SW has always had this. Set alarm to 1 minute, dismiss it correctly, and it goes off again later... | 06:37 |
| PMG | mcfrisk: do you mean a calendar alarm, clock alarm or a timer alarm? | 06:38 |
| mcfrisk | alarm clock | 06:38 |
| mcfrisk | and 1 minute timer | 06:38 |
| mcfrisk | sorry, mixing up the terms | 06:38 |
| PMG | mcfrisk: I do test alarms a lot, and I have to say that I haven't spotted this issue . I am unable to reproduce this issue now, too. | 06:41 |
| mcfrisk | well, I see it almost daily | 06:42 |
| PMG | mcfrisk: There's an easy way to find out (some of) what's going on: 1) save the file /home/nemo/.timed/events.data 2) Create a 1 minute timer alarm, dismiss it, and 3) save the file from 1 again | 06:42 |
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| PMG | The alarm daemon, timed, saves alarm data in that file, so if the alarm is active after dismiss, we should see it in the latter file | 06:43 |
| spiiroin | mcfrisk: Also, it was possible to snooze already dismissed alarm - maybe that is what happens to you? See https://together.jolla.com/question/81543/dismissing-alarm-often-snoozes-instead/ | 06:44 |
| mcfrisk | I had the alarm go off 10 minutes ago, does the file have usefull info? | 06:44 |
| mcfrisk | spiiroin: that sounds like what happens to me, yes | 06:44 |
| mcfrisk | and default snooze is 10/15 minutes or something | 06:45 |
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| PMG | mcfrisk: you can find out the snooze time in seconds with timedclient-qt5 --get-snooze | 06:47 |
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| mcfrisk | PMG: my events.data if it helps http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=4raSCfii | 06:48 |
| PMG | mcfrisk: how do you dismiss the alarm, via the pulley menu? | 06:49 |
| mcfrisk | yes, pulley | 06:49 |
| mcfrisk | e.g. phone on desk, and not moving around which could confuse the flip detection | 06:50 |
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| PMG | mcfrisk: hmm, I am trying to figure out what could make the dismiss fail. The timed events file shows a timer that is not active. | 06:52 |
| PMG | mcfrisk: The default snooze is 5 minutes | 06:53 |
| mcfrisk | could there be something in journal? | 06:54 |
| PMG | That could be possible. | 06:54 |
| PMG | mcfrisk: I would appreciate if you can share the journal log from your device, I want to hunt for all possible clues about this issue. | 06:57 |
| mcfrisk | PMG: I can, to an email address? | 06:58 |
| mcfrisk | May 08 07:27:39 Jolla dbus-daemon[905]: Activating via systemd: service name='c | 06:58 |
| mcfrisk | om.nokia.voland' unit='jolla-alarm-ui.service' | 06:58 |
| mcfrisk | shows that alarm fired and ui popped up, I guess | 06:58 |
| PMG | mcfrisk: that's correct, the lines indicate that the ui showing the alarm gets activated (binary jolla-alarm-ui) | 06:59 |
| PMG | mcfrisk: my email address is petri.gerdt@jollamobile.com, if you want to send the file via email, pastebin works for me too. | 07:00 |
| Teme | that is an unlucky name to have :| | 07:01 |
| Stskeeps | O_o | 07:01 |
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| Teme | a guy with the same name made a suicide bombing in finland | 07:02 |
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| temmi_foo | 20 years ago | 07:03 |
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| ljp | rest assured, not the same guy :) | 07:18 |
| fennekki | well, usually suicide bombers tend to... not stay alive | 07:19 |
| Teme | ljp: :D | 07:19 |
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| pp__ | ooh, dna now supports ipv6 for all subscriptions | 11:40 |
| Nicd- | source? | 11:40 |
| pp__ | https://www.dna.fi/ipv6 | 11:40 |
| Nicd- | also, now how do I turn it on with the latest update? :) | 11:40 |
| pp__ | well, mobile (hence me looking for the magic dbus to try it out) | 11:40 |
| pp__ | supposedly /bin/dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.ofono /ril_0/context1 org.ofono.ConnectionContext.SetProperty string:"Protocol" variant:string:"dual" | 11:41 |
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| pp__ | "connected" | 11:42 |
| Nicd- | thanks | 11:42 |
| pp__ | WORKS! | 11:42 |
| Nicd- | have to try that this evening | 11:42 |
| pp__ | 10/10 on test-ipv6.com | 11:42 |
| Nicd- | seems they're only just rolling it out for company mobile users | 11:42 |
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| Mikaela | "Yli miljoonaan mobiiliverkon liittymään on tuotu tuki IPv6-protokollalle. Toukokuun aikana ominaisuus laajenee kaikkiin kuluttajamobiililiittymiin ja valtaosaan yritysmobiililiittymistä. Lisäksi kesän aikana IPv6 tuodaan myös kaikkiin kaapelilaajakaistaliittymiin ja valtaosaan Ethernet-liittymiä. " | 11:48 |
| Mikaela | = IPv6 in all mobile lines during this month and most of corporate mobile lines and during Summer also all cable broadband lines and most of Ethernet lines | 11:48 |
| Nicd- | now waiting for Elisa's move | 11:48 |
| Mikaela | you will wait for longer time, I just posted that there | 11:48 |
| Nicd- | posted what? | 11:49 |
| Mikaela | the DNA quite & link | 11:49 |
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| Mikaela | http://yhteiso.elisa.fi/t5/Elisa-Viihde-Yleinen-keskustelu/Viestint%C3%A4viraston-suositus-IPv6-n-k%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6%C3%B6notosta/m-p/448454 we have already 4 pages ":D" | 11:50 |
| Nicd- | well, Elisa is part of the national IPv6 launch | 11:50 |
| Mikaela | but it's probably unlikely from them to really have IPv6 at that time... | 11:51 |
| temmi_foo | http://www.tele.fi/haku/?q=ipv6 | 11:52 |
| Nicd- | temmi_foo: hehehe | 11:52 |
| pp__ | now to figure out how to use ddns properly on sailfish | 11:56 |
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| pp__ | I have a magic script (tm) but it has some deps that may be missing | 11:56 |
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| Nicd- | thanks for brightening my day with those news pp__ :) | 11:56 |
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| * pp__ furiously compiles ipv6calc | 12:01 | |
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| pp__ | hmn, except I don't have access to the reverse zone anyway so I can just comment out the magic that updates that | 12:03 |
| Lucky_luke | any app for sync my contacts ?? | 12:03 |
| coderus | only builtin accounts afaik | 12:06 |
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| pp__ | hmn, and hooking into connman's "I'm connected" event is not 100% trivial :( | 12:15 |
| pp__ | hoped it would be a config option to run a script but apparently need to watch dbus or use https://github.com/a-sk/connman-dispatcher or so | 12:16 |
| coderus | pp__: what you want to do? | 12:16 |
| pp__ | run /usr/local/bin/ddns-update when I am connected to any network | 12:18 |
| coderus | pp__: use qt QNetworkConnectionManager | 12:20 |
| * Mikaela is using script in cron which runs every 5 minutes and only reports IP to ydns.eu if it has changed | 12:20 | |
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| pp__ | that would be the low-tech option :-) | 12:21 |
| pp__ | that's what I do on my desktop but there the ipv4 changes every few months tops and the ipv6 never | 12:21 |
| flux | I used to have a script that reloads openvpn when connection state changes.. but then some python module was remove in some Sailfish upgrade and it doesn't work anymore :( | 12:22 |
| sakustar | pp__: 0/10 telia sonera wins ipv6 | 12:24 |
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| Mikaela | 0/10 on my sisters DNA too | 12:27 |
| Mikaela | Android something though and in APN settings both protocols are set to IPv4/IPv6 and there appears to be CGN | 12:28 |
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| sakustar | yea they use cgn a lot | 12:33 |
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| sakustar | Mikaela: if you put it as ipv6 indtead of 4/6 will it get 3g or 4g? mine wont | 12:43 |
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| sakustar | it wont get online is probably the correct term :) | 12:44 |
| Nicd- | pp__: btw, is that dbus thing permanent? or have to do it after every reboot? | 12:44 |
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| pp__ | every reboot I think | 13:05 |
| pp__ | it'll eventually just be a menu option I'm sure | 13:06 |
| Nicd- | guess I could write a systemd user service for running it on boot | 13:06 |
| Nicd- | unless you have to do it as devel-su | 13:06 |
| pp__ | I think I ran it as nemo | 13:07 |
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| Yaniel | in which case you can write a systemd system service | 13:07 |
| pp__ | might be it's in a config file too | 13:07 |
| Nicd- | yeah, but I'd like to avoid doing root stuff | 13:07 |
| Nicd- | so I'm gonna try a user level service | 13:08 |
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| Yaniel | yay, native spotify client in app store | 13:17 |
| ggabriel | boo premium acct required to use it | 13:17 |
| stephg | wat | 13:18 |
| Yaniel | to be fair that applies to other mobile platforms too | 13:18 |
| stephg | really? | 13:18 |
| temmi_foo | is the jolla store available for computer browsing? | 13:18 |
| ggabriel | well, my boo was more to spotify than anything else | 13:18 |
| stephg | I saw cutespotify had changed it's name, was that why I wonder | 13:18 |
| Nicd- | temmi_foo: no | 13:18 |
| Yaniel | still, it's one of the "mandatory" apps | 13:19 |
| Yaniel | for mainstream | 13:19 |
| ggabriel | yes, it's nice if you have an acct | 13:19 |
| ggabriel | you can download and play offline | 13:19 |
| ggabriel | that's nice | 13:19 |
| Yaniel | I don't have one either ^^ | 13:19 |
| ggabriel | i go to soundcloud.com | 13:19 |
| ggabriel | or just have music in my massive sd card :P | 13:19 |
| stephg | ggabriel: that's what I did: ~/.local/share/harbour-cutespot is a symlink out to the sdcard | 13:20 |
| stephg | does the trick | 13:20 |
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| ggabriel | stephg: oh, you mean if you prefer the spotify player | 13:20 |
| Nicd- | I'm so legacy I still use a separate mp3 player | 13:21 |
| temmi_foo | Nicd-: when i used the android phone as phone, i always selected my apps via a real browser and only installed them using the device itself | 13:21 |
| ggabriel | i have a walkman | 13:21 |
| ggabriel | with a 90' cassette | 13:21 |
| temmi_foo | Nicd-: i kind of miss that as the phone screen is really annoyingly small for other things than speaking on the phone or perhaps seeing some driving maps or something | 13:22 |
| Mikaela | sakustar: I think it won't as there is no IPv6 | 13:22 |
| Nicd- | temmi_foo: well, I didn't make the store :P if it was up to me there would be a web version | 13:22 |
| stephg | ggabriel I use both tbh | 13:23 |
| temmi_foo | thx Nicd- :) | 13:23 |
| temmi_foo | btw sans carsinogens you're still my favourite rc battery chemistry | 13:24 |
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| Yaniel | remember when you didn't do a full power cycle on your battery? nicd remembers | 13:25 |
| temmi_foo | i learned the imporance of proper balancing on nicd | 13:26 |
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| temmi_foo | by then it had to be done by hand and not everyone did it resulting in battery voltage dropping in a slower curve that also starts earlier | 13:27 |
| temmi_foo | had to be done by hand == there were no chargers that did it for you, only people actually having some equipment tailored for that made nice bucks selecting and pairing cells | 13:28 |
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| Yaniel | hmm my jolla is running quite warm today | 13:30 |
| Ezko | is there a reason to swap from the cutespotify that wasn't in jolla shop to the one that is in there? | 13:33 |
| pp__ | some bluetooth controls not being available in the store version, it seems | 13:34 |
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| Yaniel | I suppose no reasons | 13:36 |
| Yaniel | but jolla app store makes it more accessible in general, which is nice | 13:36 |
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| Ezko | pp__: they don't work in the other one either | 13:42 |
| Ezko | pause and play work if there's a short gap between them | 13:44 |
| Ezko | i think it's a hardware problem anyway partially | 13:44 |
| Ezko | with some android devices they work fine and the device broadcasts the song info too but my huawei tablet definitely does neither | 13:45 |
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| anonfriese | hei guys, anyone knows about a 3d printing service (or someone with a 3d printer) that could make a toh with custom colors for me? | 14:58 |
| raa700 | look for local hackerspace | 14:59 |
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| tbr | anonfriese: IIRC there were some models that could be done with shapeways. if you don't like their colour choices, it's sourcing the right filament and finding a printer, like raa700 pointed out. | 15:07 |
| anonfriese | humm okay | 15:08 |
| temmi_foo | filament printed other halves are not too tolerant for changing the other half a lot | 15:09 |
| anonfriese | hmm, i'm not that big of a toh changer tbh... been rocking the black toh for about 3 or 4 months now... | 15:10 |
| tbr | and they need to be larger to achieve mechanical stability | 15:10 |
| anonfriese | maybe I'll try to find some paint and just recolor a white jolla-original toh | 15:11 |
| tbr | that's probably more promising. | 15:12 |
| tbr | if you give it a clear coat afterwards, it might last longer | 15:12 |
| anonfriese | yeah | 15:12 |
| anonfriese | got an acquaintance working in a car painting company, maybe i'll give that a shot... | 15:13 |
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| Sail0r | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDS1Y0aW0AEq1L7.png:large | 15:22 |
| ggabriel | nice i like | 15:23 |
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| anonfriese | ... and i thought that where all just hamburger menus... | 15:27 |
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| Sail0r | hehe | 15:31 |
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| kimmoli | no pizza menu? | 15:39 |
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| Sail0r | I want this in my office https://i.imgur.com/5YL9gPm.gifv | 15:43 |
| temmi_foo | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBTtkEWG_H8 | 15:44 |
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| kontio | child labor...? | 15:52 |
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| Nicd- | pp__: do I need to reboot connections or something for the dbus ipv6 thing to start working? | 18:27 |
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| pp__ | disconnect (otherwise it will error), dbus-send and connect, and it should work (tm) | 18:36 |
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| Nicd- | ok | 18:37 |
| Nicd- | disconnect by disabling mobile from settings? | 18:37 |
| Nicd- | can only get link local :/ maybe it's not yet enable for my contract | 18:38 |
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| pp__ | could be, they have a list of what should work | 18:43 |
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| truls | 3 | 20:02 |
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| attah | 4 | 20:21 |
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| stephg | 5 | 21:26 |
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| jcbjoe | how much will it cost to ship to finaland ? | 23:07 |
| jcbjoe | any ideas ? | 23:07 |
| jcbjoe | finland* | 23:08 |
| coderus | from where? and what boat model? | 23:10 |
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