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| Joonaa | Hello, I currently have my phone in a boot loop, I think it has something to do with the GSM connectivity, any crash logs or such I could get on this? | 10:27 |
|---|---|---|
| Stskeeps | take out battery, leave it out for 30 seconds, put back in - does it stop it? | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | did you update recently? what version of sw?/ | 10:28 |
| Joonaa | yes | 10:28 |
| Joonaa | latest afaik | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | ok, consider contacting care | 10:28 |
| Joonaa | taking out the battery works, this has happened a few times | 10:28 |
| Joonaa | oh hey it works now | 10:28 |
| Joonaa | i just waited before entering my pin | 10:29 |
| r0kk3rz | gsm connectivity causing bootloop? interesting | 10:29 |
| Joonaa | well, thats what i think it is... im not touching the screen after entering my pin, and it crashes after a few seconds | 10:30 |
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| Joonaa | but i was wondering if there were any error logs i could look at? | 10:31 |
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| r0kk3rz | journalctl | 10:37 |
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| faenil | Joonaa: journalctl after devel-su | 10:58 |
| faenil | and if you can't see old messages, set "Storage=persisten" in /etc/systemd/journal.conf | 10:58 |
| faenil | "Storage=persistent" | 10:59 |
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| faenil | and reboot the phone, then wait for the bug to be triggered and check the journalc again | 10:59 |
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| Joonaa | faenil thanks, now to sit patiently.. :) | 11:22 |
| faenil | :) | 11:23 |
| faenil | Joonaa: you might also need additional settings to enable extended network debugging log, but I don't rememberthose ones | 11:23 |
| faenil | you can try pinging lpotter in 9-10 hours | 11:24 |
| Joonaa | i'll ask for that if i cant get any info with this | 11:24 |
| faenil | yeah ;) | 11:24 |
| faenil | you'll get some info, just not sure if it's enough ;) but yes, first make sure that it's networking | 11:25 |
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| Joonaa | chem|st: is there any fix for not being able to write to jolla&android sdcard from windows? ( https://together.jolla.com/question/40802/how-to-format-your-usd-card-to-btrfs-and-share-space-with-android/ ) | 12:01 |
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| klopsi-u3 | "I dont know if change will bring about improvement, but I know that for things to improve, there must be change." | 13:20 |
| klopsi-u3 | - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg | 13:20 |
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| svuorela | cb400f: ! are you a telenor.dk customer? can you receive MMS messages ? | 14:08 |
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| cb400f | tdc (unotel) ... I have received some.. I think for some time I could only receive mms messages from people using tdc network... but lately it seems I have received mms messages succesfully from other networks | 14:11 |
| cb400f | but I get/send an mms maybe once every 3 months, so it's a bit hard to keep track of the status | 14:11 |
| svuorela | I never had it working ... | 14:12 |
| cb400f | hm.. iirc there were instructions for telenor on TJC.. from that tbanghus guy or whatever his name is | 14:14 |
| cb400f | also my father has had it working with telenor | 14:14 |
| cb400f | tanghus: https://together.jolla.com/question/38555/mms-issues-hints-for-debugging-and-helping-us-to-improve/ | 14:16 |
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| cb400f | but it is a huge pain.. cuz apparently providers do all kind of funkyness... kloeri mentioned that he had to first send an mms to himself in order to be able to receive mms from others (with his android phone) | 14:18 |
| svuorela | I do get mms notifications, but when trying to download them, I get "Problem with downloading message" | 14:19 |
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| svuorela | hmm... re-entering a lot of information and disabling wifi kind of made stuff work. | 14:26 |
| svuorela | I wonder if that's a one-off. | 14:26 |
| cb400f | yep, you need a whole bunch of phone models using different networks etc. to make sure things actually work consistently :-/ | 14:27 |
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| svuorela | send me a picture of your view :) | 14:38 |
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| svuorela | lol. mr. opensuse :) | 14:43 |
| cb400f | guess it worked ;-) | 14:43 |
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| tiwake | dododo... sitting here waiting for the tablet | 15:43 |
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| tiwake | is SailfishOS the first linux OS that uses wayland by default? | 15:44 |
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| Sail0r | Tizen uses it also as default but I don't know who came first | 15:47 |
| Stskeeps | tiwake: maybe on mobile, that shipped | 15:48 |
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| r0kk3rz | well i think it doesnt quite cover all the desktop use cases yet | 16:01 |
| r0kk3rz | but for mobile its fine | 16:01 |
| tiwake | sure | 16:01 |
| tiwake | though KDE 5 completely works with it last I knew | 16:02 |
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| tiwake | but SailfishOS came a fair bit before that | 16:02 |
| r0kk3rz | well the jolla used it from launch | 16:04 |
| tiwake | yeah... thats why I thought it might be the first real linux distro that shipped with wayland... *shrug* | 16:05 |
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| r0kk3rz | maybe, not sure what that gets us though | 16:06 |
| tiwake | a cookie | 16:06 |
| tiwake | lol | 16:06 |
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| r0kk3rz | a medal | 16:07 |
| tiwake | sounds like fedora 22 is going to be based on wayland | 16:07 |
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| r0kk3rz | its there as an option | 16:08 |
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| tiwake | http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2015/01/19/planning-for-fedora-workstation-22/ | 16:09 |
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| tiwake | never actually used fedora | 16:09 |
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| r0kk3rz | like everything else really | 16:10 |
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| japa-fi | I'm fedora user since fedora 11 | 16:30 |
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| Teemu | uh | 19:00 |
| Teemu | sorry | 19:00 |
| r0kk3rz | so you should be Teemu | 19:03 |
| r0kk3rz | :P | 19:03 |
| Edelwin | :'D | 19:05 |
| Teemu | i know, i've tried rpm based linuxen | 19:07 |
| fennekki | linuces? | 19:07 |
| Teemu | :) | 19:08 |
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| Tegu | GNU/Linux distributions, ofc | 19:09 |
| fennekki | "...or as I've recently started calling it, GNU+Linux" | 19:09 |
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| Tegu | GNU+Linux distributions, ofc | 19:09 |
| Tegu | I heard some RMS's talk where he used GNU+Linux, so it confused a bit | 19:11 |
| Teemu | who is this GNU+Linux guy? | 19:11 |
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| Teemu | GNU/Linux I know and disagree with | 19:11 |
| fennekki | Teemu: RMS | 19:12 |
| fennekki | rms is both of those iir | 19:12 |
| fennekki | c | 19:12 |
| Tegu | I had missed that he's started to use it | 19:12 |
| Teemu | fennekki: oh okay | 19:12 |
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| Teemu | not really surprised | 19:12 |
| Tegu | :P | 19:12 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe he got sick of saying 'slash' | 19:13 |
| fennekki | I never pronounce the slash anyway | 19:13 |
| Teemu | i never say gnu/linux anyway | 19:13 |
| r0kk3rz | RMS does (or did) | 19:13 |
| fennekki | even though that's the rms-canonical way to say it | 19:13 |
| Teemu | i just say linux when speaking about distros | 19:13 |
| r0kk3rz | as do most people, hence his pedantry | 19:14 |
| fennekki | I don't even disagree with rms most of the time | 19:14 |
| fennekki | he's not even that wrong | 19:14 |
| fennekki | like | 19:14 |
| Teemu | he wants to own the word free | 19:14 |
| r0kk3rz | if I had made a significant part of what is commonly considered 'Linux' i would probably get pedantic about it as well | 19:14 |
| fennekki | even the less sane-sounding ideas like that all cell phones are being monitored | 19:14 |
| fennekki | turned out to be true | 19:14 |
| fennekki | Teemu: that's a strange way to think about it | 19:15 |
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| Teemu | also his freedom is very restricted | 19:15 |
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| fennekki | not that restricted compared to most other freedoms you have | 19:16 |
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| Yaniel | *don't have | 19:16 |
| fennekki | 'scuse | 19:16 |
| r0kk3rz | Teemu: perhaps, but when you're looking into freedom as a right, and freedom as ethics, then your freedom ends where mine begins | 19:17 |
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| silver_hook | Yesterday I bugged you guys regarding I♥FS day, but I forgot to mention that after that I blogged about Jolla’s community as well: http://matija.suklje.name/i-love-fs-2015 | 19:17 |
| fennekki | the point of the GPL is pretty much to make more software free as in FSF | 19:17 |
| fennekki | it's completely reasonable, too | 19:17 |
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| r0kk3rz | and its about balancing the freedom of the developer vs the freedom of the user | 19:18 |
| Teemu | r0kk3rz: i still get annoyed when rms is trying to sell his restricted version of freedom as somehow more free than just being free to do whatever | 19:18 |
| Teemu | the gpl has a resctriction, put there on purpose, and it might be valid | 19:19 |
| fennekki | Teemu: it restricts the freedom to be an asshole, in a sense | 19:19 |
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| silver_hook | fennekki: I like that explanation. | 19:19 |
| fennekki | you can't choose to use and modify something and NOT contribute | 19:19 |
| Teemu | what I'm _mostly_ against is that rms is purpoting that this restriction is in fact more free than the freedom without restrictions | 19:19 |
| fennekki | it IS, in a way | 19:20 |
| Teemu | no it is not :) | 19:20 |
| fennekki | do whatever you want -free | 19:20 |
| fennekki | means that proprietary software will keep being a thing | 19:20 |
| r0kk3rz | Teemu: depends on what you consider 'more' in this scenario | 19:20 |
| Teemu | the restriction has its validation and i'm not arguing that | 19:20 |
| r0kk3rz | greatest sum freedom, or greatest individual freedom | 19:20 |
| Teemu | i'm arguing _how_ rms argues around this restriction | 19:20 |
| Tegu | get WTFPL for ultimate freedom! (also freedom to not contribute :P) | 19:21 |
| fennekki | you do have the freedom to not contribute with the GPL | 19:21 |
| Tegu | if you don't publish | 19:22 |
| fennekki | it just says that if you do, and then distribute your resulting program | 19:22 |
| fennekki | you have to let everyone who gets that do the same | 19:22 |
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| silver_hook | The difference between copyleft and lax/permissive licensing is basically the choice between *what* is the freedom you want protect – with lax is the freedom of the individual to do whatever they want with the code and thus for the code to be included as widely as possible; with copyleft the freedom of the code is paramount, by making sure that the code will forever remain free. | 19:22 |
| fennekki | most of the restrictions are around contributors and forks and whatnot being unable to remove the freedoms from th eusers | 19:22 |
| fennekki | yeah, that | 19:23 |
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| fennekki | also, as an interesting question | 19:23 |
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| fennekki | can anyone name a benefit from a non-open-source propretiary software to anyone | 19:23 |
| fennekki | in general | 19:23 |
| fennekki | any specific one | 19:23 |
| fennekki | not like | 19:23 |
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| fennekki | but if you publish a propretiary piece of software | 19:24 |
| fennekki | what are the benefits | 19:24 |
| fennekki | to anyone | 19:24 |
| klopsi-u3 | you can pay your developers | 19:24 |
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| fennekki | you can pay your developers otherwise, too | 19:25 |
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| fennekki | basically, put this way: | 19:25 |
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| fennekki | if Photoshop was GPL'd | 19:25 |
| fennekki | as many people would still buy it | 19:25 |
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| fennekki | from someone, anyway | 19:25 |
| fennekki | under the GPL Adobe would only have to distribute the source code to people who buy it | 19:27 |
| klopsi-u3 | photoshop Creative Suite is what, 1000 euro | 19:27 |
| fennekki | also, anyone else distributing it would be in a breach of the license if they did not provide the source as well | 19:27 |
| fennekki | so we'd be in largely the same situation | 19:27 |
| fennekki | Someone would probably get it to compile and distribute non-Adobe builds of it | 19:28 |
| fennekki | but in practise that isn't massively different from warez | 19:28 |
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| fennekki | except, you know, some of it would be allowed under the license | 19:29 |
| fennekki | if this happened overnight most of the distribution would STILL be in a breach of it since they wouldn't be providing the source | 19:29 |
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| klopsi-u3 | there's nothing preventing anyone from attempting to provide such software under your model | 19:30 |
| klopsi-u3 | except, it not working-out | 19:31 |
| klopsi-u3 | i would like to see a lot of gpl software that isnt coming anytime soon | 19:32 |
| klopsi-u3 | like good offline map navigation for jolla | 19:32 |
| fennekki | klopsi-u3: yeah, I'm just saying, the perceived benefits from propretiary software (ie. that you "own" the software, users are licencees) doesn't actually effectively prevent people from doing whatever the hell they want with your software ANYWAY | 19:33 |
| klopsi-u3 | ever work for a company fennekki? the ones I have worked for take software piracy pretty seriously | 19:34 |
| klopsi-u3 | so yes there is a lot of piracy but there is still enough sales to support million-dollar development budgets | 19:35 |
| r0kk3rz | it depends on the industry | 19:35 |
| r0kk3rz | the company i work for couldnt care less about piracy | 19:35 |
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| Teemu | while gpl makes people and companies publish changes, they are not necessarily tailored to be easy to patch into upstream | 19:37 |
| r0kk3rz | they dont have to | 19:39 |
| r0kk3rz | so long as its published, then thats the GPL bit done | 19:39 |
| Teemu | yes | 19:40 |
| r0kk3rz | if upstream want to integrate the changes, then they can put in the work to do so | 19:40 |
| Teemu | which pretty much means that unless upstream and the whoever work together from the very beginning of making a new feature, it will not end up actually _benefiting_ the upstream | 19:41 |
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| r0kk3rz | its not really about benefiting upstream though | 19:49 |
| r0kk3rz | downstream used GPLd code to make something | 19:49 |
| r0kk3rz | so its only fair to give other developers the same | 19:49 |
| r0kk3rz | which includes upstream, if the changes are something that they like (or their users like) | 19:50 |
| Teemu | also, bsd/mit licencing something does not necessarily mean that all commercial users will by default not publish their changes | 19:50 |
| r0kk3rz | well no | 19:53 |
| r0kk3rz | GPLing code practically guarantees they wont use it in the first place | 19:53 |
| Teemu | indeed | 19:54 |
| r0kk3rz | if your aim is to get upstream patches, then in most cases GPL isnt a great choice | 19:54 |
| Teemu | bsd means they _might_ use it and that in turn enables the possibility that they might actually publish whatever changes they made | 19:54 |
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| chem|st | Joonaa: you should be able to write at least to android via the export of $home/android_sdcard | 21:01 |
| chem|st | Joonaa: something is off there as it should not be a problem to have the normal sdcard volume exported, jolla staff was made aware but unable to reproduce | 21:02 |
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| kuene | under "settings"->"sound and feedback" i set "message" to "no sound" but I still get a sound when an sms comes in. | 22:02 |
| kuene | any idea? | 22:02 |
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| r0kk3rz | kuene: ambiance settings | 22:05 |
| kuene | r0kk3rz, where do i find them? | 22:07 |
| kuene | the ambience settings. i seem not to be able to find them.. | 22:10 |
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| Acce | Gallery -> ambiences | 22:10 |
| Acce | might be good to have link or whatnot from the settings.. | 22:10 |
| kuene | Acce, thanks. never looked there :-) | 22:11 |
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| Joonaa | chem|st: ill try to remember to ask for details tomorrow, but from windows the sdcard is totally empty, but i cant create anything on it | 22:40 |
| Joonaa | but, tomorrow then :) | 22:40 |
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| Apteryx | Any hardware recommendation to run SailOS? JollaPhone is not available in Canada. | 23:21 |
| Apteryx | *Sailfish OS | 23:21 |
| Apteryx | I'd like it to be as hackable as possible (for example with open source drivers, such as freedreno) | 23:22 |
| M4rtinK | well, the Jolla phone is still the best supported hardware for Sailfish OS | 23:22 |
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| ikarus | Apteryx: the tablet iirc will be availible in Canada | 23:23 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, this is the support matrix: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris | 23:25 |
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| M4rtinK | also even if a device is fully supported (there is no such device ATM), it still won't have the Android emulation layer | 23:27 |
| M4rtinK | but that depends on your use cases and might not be an issue | 23:27 |
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| Apteryx | ikarus: yes, and that's great, but it doesn't have 3G (nor does it fit in my pocket) | 23:45 |
| Apteryx | M4rtinK: Thanks for the pointer. | 23:46 |
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| Apteryx | M4rtinK: just being curious, why is this such a hit or miss (regarding device support), considering libhybris should allow to use all the android drivers? | 23:48 |
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| M4rtinK | Apteryx: Android drivers being garbage is my guess | 23:51 |
| Apteryx | M4rtinK: ok :D | 23:51 |
| M4rtinK | Apteryx: eq. they probably barely work in the given Android version they have been used with and blow up if you want to use them in a slightly different way | 23:52 |
| M4rtinK | Apteryx: but that's just my theory/guess | 23:52 |
| Apteryx | thanks for sharing it | 23:52 |
| M4rtinK | Apteryx: I haven't really been involved in the porting effort basically just know the overall theory | 23:52 |
| M4rtinK | try #sailfishos-porters | 23:53 |
| Apteryx | ok! | 23:53 |
| Apteryx | thanks again | 23:53 |
| M4rtinK | that's where the actually people doing the porting gather :) | 23:53 |
| M4rtinK | no problem, I'm glad when I can help :) | 23:53 |
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