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| Lucky_Luke | i have 32k free ram | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| Lucky_Luke | is that normal? | 00:03 |
| Nicd- | yes | 00:03 |
| Nicd- | for some definitions of "free" | 00:04 |
| Nicd- | what are you using to check it? | 00:04 |
| Lucky_Luke | lighthouse | 00:04 |
| Lucky_Luke | and my phone is 5days up | 00:04 |
| Nicd- | hm, sounds really low | 00:04 |
| Lucky_Luke | yes | 00:05 |
| Lucky_Luke | w8 i rr | 00:05 |
| Lucky_Luke | my phone | 00:05 |
| Lucky_Luke | now i have 40k free | 00:07 |
| tbr | aliendalvik running? | 00:08 |
| tbr | what's the cached amount? | 00:09 |
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| Lucky_Luke | im not isntall this | 00:09 |
| Lucky_Luke | should i? | 00:09 |
| tbr | no | 00:09 |
| Lucky_Luke | what is your free ram | 00:12 |
| Lucky_Luke | 266 processes | 00:12 |
| Lucky_Luke | memory 52% | 00:12 |
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| mdxth | 274 processes 52% free is here | 00:14 |
| tbr | meh, sounds perfectly fine to me | 00:14 |
| Lucky_Luke | so we are ok | 00:14 |
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| salyavin | mutt | 05:24 |
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| AL13N_jolla_ | hmmm store app keeps loading... but internet works | 08:36 |
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| Morpog_PC | hmmmm, Tizen will be on all Samsung TV's of 2015. Sounds like a great SailfishOS target :D SailfishOS TV ;) | 10:44 |
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| gogeta | Morpog_PC, fyi already a tv middleware that use libhybris on the wild | 10:48 |
| Morpog_PC | oh cool | 10:49 |
| gogeta | the only thing was closed abbandonware | 10:50 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm? | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | what middleware using libhybris | 11:12 |
| tbr | Morpog_PC: samsung isn't exactly known for hacker friendly hardware though | 11:13 |
| gogeta | a friend of mine did a dvb stb using qt5 | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | ah ok | 11:15 |
| gogeta | also once attended mer-meeting after he said ... apart faenil you are just flame guys | 11:15 |
| gogeta | the firm behind him switched to android | 11:16 |
| gogeta | infact is a piece of shit | 11:16 |
| gogeta | crashes everywhere | 11:16 |
| gogeta | middleware bought in china | 11:16 |
| Sail0r | hmpf still nobody trying to port to SG2 | 11:16 |
| gogeta | + modification for europe broadcaster .... not to mention system stability | 11:16 |
| Sail0r | and my last try wasn't very succesful ^^ | 11:16 |
| gogeta | me too | 11:16 |
| gogeta | near to brick the phone | 11:17 |
| gogeta | Stskeeps, if he give me the binaries i'll show you some days | 11:17 |
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| Morpog_PC | If anyone missed TOHKBD campaign, you can preorder now again: http://funkyotherhalf.com/?page_id=9#!/TOHKBD2-PRE-ORDER/p/42141285/category=9141090 | 11:20 |
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| Hartzi | Morpog_PC: cool | 11:21 |
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| r0kk3rz | dirk needs a new Lamborghini? | 11:43 |
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| dirkvl | r0kk3rz: lots of requests | 11:51 |
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| dirkvl | and high MOQs on some parts | 11:51 |
| r0kk3rz | makes sense then | 11:51 |
| dirkvl | and current lamborghini needs gold coating | 11:51 |
| * phdeswer_ thought dirkvl would go for diamond headlights instead | 11:52 | |
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| Yaniel | why not both | 12:02 |
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| sec | http://i.imgur.com/Y8Fx9RM.jpg Design coffee? ._. | 18:24 |
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| Toxip | what kind of business model does Jolla have? | 19:27 |
| Ezko | i think they sell phones | 19:28 |
| Toxip | do they license the OS or give it out for free? | 19:28 |
| Toxip | well, that's not their main goal | 19:28 |
| Yaniel | they intend to license the os | 19:28 |
| Yaniel | at least they have said that is the plan | 19:28 |
| Toxip | some people argue that it's not very good strategy since other competitors give their OS for free | 19:29 |
| ggabriel | i think they only way they earn money so far is by selling phones | 19:29 |
| ggabriel | s/they/the/ | 19:29 |
| ggabriel | i'll leave criticising the strategy to the strategists :) | 19:30 |
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| ggabriel | but out of curiosity... who gives away their OS? | 19:30 |
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| Toxip | well Google does... but they have to pay for the google play right? | 19:31 |
| ggabriel | i don't think anything that google does is free | 19:31 |
| Toxip | so practically no | 19:31 |
| ggabriel | somebody pays | 19:32 |
| ggabriel | one way or another | 19:32 |
| ggabriel | not sure about things like ff os | 19:32 |
| ggabriel | or ubuntu | 19:32 |
| ggabriel | but there are very few products out there | 19:32 |
| Toxip | indeed, nothing is free in this world | 19:32 |
| ggabriel | fwiw, you can get sailfish os for free nowadays | 19:33 |
| ggabriel | it just doesn't come with things like aliendalvik or maps | 19:33 |
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| Toxip | you mean with all the silica jazz too? | 19:40 |
| ggabriel | yes | 19:40 |
| ggabriel | you can install it on a nexus 4 | 19:41 |
| ggabriel | officially | 19:41 |
| Toxip | oh yeah, ofc... the hadk | 19:41 |
| ggabriel | that's not the same as licensing though | 19:41 |
| Toxip | yeah, of course... | 19:41 |
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| Toxip | if a company wanted to make a SFOS device, could they just port SFOS for their device with HADK? | 19:42 |
| Toxip | I doubt that | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | they can, but for non-commercial purposes | 19:43 |
| ggabriel | i'm sure they can talk to jolla and they may be interested :) | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | they can easily talk to us though | 19:43 |
| Yaniel | well, that's what jolla have in mind to begin with afaik :D | 19:44 |
| Toxip | stskeeps: the key words here is non-commercial purpose | 19:44 |
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| Toxip | so in the end they'd probably want to talk to Jolla anyway if they wanted to make a SFOS device | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | basically | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | as it's not just about a port | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | you need updates, infrastructure support, etc | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | technical is easy, productization is harder | 19:45 |
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| Toxip | I really do hope other companies get interested in the platform | 19:46 |
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| Toxip | other device manufacturers I mean | 19:47 |
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| Toxip | one thing Sailfish OS lacks is push notifications | 19:48 |
| Toxip | I wonder if it would be possible to implement that with blockchain technology... now that would be interesting | 19:48 |
| Toxip | decentralised cloud messaging | 19:49 |
| kimmoli | tbr: ^ your topic,.. | 19:50 |
| Yaniel | now that... would be interesting yes | 19:51 |
| Yaniel | no idea about how resource-hungry that'd be though | 19:52 |
| Toxip | yeah, don't know if that's even feasible | 19:52 |
| Toxip | it would mean all devices would contribute to the network so it would probably hog a lot of battery power | 19:53 |
| Yaniel | (I don't know how much about those cryptocurrencies resource consumption is the blockchain part and how much the rest) | 19:55 |
| Toxip | well of course it would have to be entirely optional | 19:55 |
| Toxip | mining is resource hungry but proof-of-stake really isn't | 19:56 |
| Toxip | but even a little traffic would still reduce the battery life | 19:56 |
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| Toxip | in any case, push notifications would require a good server infrastructure so blockchain technology might be a good alternative there | 20:01 |
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| nander | I've gotta love urban dictionary, if you look up finnish it recommends metal xD | 20:09 |
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| tbr | Toxip: I have well working proof of concept, but lack the free time for pursuing this and jolla doesn't seem interested in pursuing this commercially | 20:15 |
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| r0kk3rz | tbr: proof of concept for what? your mqtt push notifications? (sorry only just joined) | 20:28 |
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| * RzR http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94318# Have you voted for Maemo Council ? if not it's now or never | 20:31 | |
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| tbr | r0kk3rz: yes | 20:33 |
| M4rtinK | RzR: thanks for the heads-up! :) | 20:34 |
| r0kk3rz | well aside from having poettering in the back of my head going "dbus is not a network protocol" I thought it was a good idea | 20:35 |
| r0kk3rz | shame that jolla doesnt want to pursue it | 20:35 |
| RzR | M4rtinK, let's hope there will be more voters to show community is still here ;) | 20:35 |
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| Toxip | tbr: cool | 20:36 |
| M4rtinK | RzR: yep! :) | 20:37 |
| Toxip | I think Jolla should reconsider since push notifications are an essential feature in smartphone OSs | 20:38 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah its fairly important | 20:39 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: dbus is not the air protocol. the endpoint sends dbus | 20:39 |
| r0kk3rz | well no, but i thought the whole thing was about extending dbus beyond the host | 20:39 |
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| tbr | r0kk3rz: that was a very very early thought and it didn't work | 20:39 |
| r0kk3rz | oh right | 20:40 |
| r0kk3rz | so is it more of a pure mqtt but endpoint broadcasts dbus notifications? | 20:40 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: it will be close to dbus as that will do local delivery, but messages will be independent. they might resemble dbus to a degree due to it being the local delivery agent | 20:40 |
| tbr | the poc uses stupidly simple message format | 20:41 |
| tbr | IIRC two lines of ASCII, first goes into header second into the long field of the notification | 20:41 |
| r0kk3rz | but having a platform independent way of doing push notifications would be amazing | 20:42 |
| r0kk3rz | instead of being locked into play services, or whatever apple has | 20:42 |
| tbr | I started defining a local DBUS API for the device. Also have some very rough initial server side API chunks and more thoughts on that. | 20:42 |
| Toxip | +1 | 20:42 |
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| r0kk3rz | tbr got your stuff uploaded somewhere? | 20:44 |
| tbr | there are bits on my github | 20:45 |
| tbr | not sure if I pushed everything | 20:45 |
| Toxip | I really don't know much about this stuff... how would this thing of yours work? | 20:47 |
| r0kk3rz | Toxip start learning, and keep learning :P | 20:49 |
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| tbr | Toxip: https://twitter.com/tbr23/status/496372581419982848 - that might help a bit or confuse more | 20:49 |
| sobukus | I spammed gerrit now because I didn't squash my commits | 20:50 |
| sobukus | Ah, wrong channel. | 20:50 |
| kimmoli | i have that mqtt stuff running on my phone and on desktops; atm its just irssi notifications | 20:51 |
| Toxip | r0kk3rz: that's why I ask, I'm anxious to learn! I would like to contribute but before I can do that, I have to learn stuff :) | 20:51 |
| kimmoli | but it gets popup notification on windows desktop, notification on jolla, etc | 20:51 |
| Toxip | first of all, what is PoC? | 20:52 |
| kimmoli | proof of concept | 20:52 |
| Toxip | :D | 20:52 |
| Toxip | thanks | 20:52 |
| kimmoli | (piece of carp ? | 20:52 |
| Toxip | :DD | 20:52 |
| Toxip | carp? | 20:52 |
| temmi_moo | carp is nice | 20:52 |
| r0kk3rz | Toxip: whats your background? | 20:53 |
| temmi_moo | i want carps in the pond that we'll eventually build on this property | 20:53 |
| r0kk3rz | carp? nice? wtf is this? | 20:53 |
| Toxip | I'm a 3rd year IT student at Metropolia UAS | 20:54 |
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| Toxip | haven't done any programming before I started there... I have been learning some SFOS programming creating my own little game | 20:55 |
| r0kk3rz | Toxip: you dont do programming for your degree? or is it more of a trade school? | 20:56 |
| Toxip | I'm on a bachelor of engineering degree programme and I major in software development | 20:57 |
| Toxip | so it's not a trade school | 20:57 |
| temmi_moo | r0kk3rz: i have no idea if the carp network redundancy control protocol is nice or not | 20:58 |
| Toxip | tbr: what is this mosquitto? | 20:58 |
| * tbr errors out with "I'm a teapot!" | 20:58 | |
| tbr | Toxip: it's an open source implementation of the MQTT protocol | 20:59 |
| kimmoli | wasnt it IBM originally? | 20:59 |
| tbr | yes | 20:59 |
| Toxip | alright | 20:59 |
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| r0kk3rz | Toxip: sorry i misread, sounds similar to what I did anyway | 21:00 |
| r0kk3rz | which is good, you should get good fundamentals that way | 21:00 |
| r0kk3rz | which is important | 21:00 |
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| tbr | Toxip: what MQTT provides us in this context is a secured transport layer with addressable endpoints (very flexible) | 21:00 |
| temmi_moo | Toxip: do they have anything one could take on the side along with a job? | 21:00 |
| Toxip | temmi_moo: what do you mean exactly? | 21:01 |
| temmi_moo | isn't mqtt also used in the google chat and several other more-modern-than-irc chat systems? | 21:01 |
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| r0kk3rz | alledgedly fb messenger uses it | 21:01 |
| tbr | temmi_moo: google used to use XMPP and then switched to a HTTP based protocol | 21:01 |
| r0kk3rz | or as a butchered implementation of it | 21:01 |
| temmi_moo | ah okay | 21:01 |
| tbr | yeah fb supposedly used it for backend transport and routing or such | 21:02 |
| tbr | in the messenger context | 21:02 |
| temmi_moo | Toxip: i'd like to get a wholesome intro to programming solid basics | 21:02 |
| * tbr currently toys with IE³ 802.15.4 hardware and might use MQTT as the protocol from the gateway to the "cloud" aka server | 21:03 | |
| Toxip | temmi_moo: you want me to teach you programming basics? | 21:04 |
| temmi_moo | Toxip: no, i'd like to enroll in metropolia or somesuch other who would do that | 21:04 |
| M4rtinK | temmi_moo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Computer_Programming :) | 21:04 |
| temmi_moo | preferably so that i could skip the parts i already to know of | 21:05 |
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| Toxip | alright then... you're from Finland? | 21:05 |
| r0kk3rz | so long as you have a good grasp of pointers, arrays, other data structures, stacks .etc you should be right | 21:05 |
| temmi_moo | indeed i am | 21:06 |
| Toxip | I've liked Metropolia so far | 21:07 |
| Toxip | check out http://www.metropolia.fi/ | 21:07 |
| temmi_moo | r0kk3rz: what i mean is that i'd like to follow a concise and more or less "whole" training program that would make me implement more or less most important standard data structures and algorithms etc | 21:07 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah its worth doing | 21:08 |
| temmi_moo | now that i've just learned stuff more or less following personal whims i'm finding i have serious holes | 21:08 |
| r0kk3rz | i owe a lot to my teachers from uni | 21:08 |
| r0kk3rz | good solid fundamentals and you can self-teach yourself anything | 21:09 |
| Toxip | you'd probably have to do the math and physics too if you applied there | 21:09 |
| Toxip | unless you have some background there | 21:09 |
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| temmi_moo | after high school i went to be sysadmin and network admin and somehow programmer and all kinds of stuff | 21:10 |
| temmi_moo | then i decided i'd like to have a trade that can be utilised when i move out to the countryside and went to amis to become electrician | 21:11 |
| temmi_moo | did that for a while, moved to vihti, am now working in otaniemi/pitäjänmäki for ell-i open source cooperative | 21:11 |
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| Toxip | maybe the adult/evening degree programme would suit you then | 21:12 |
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| temmi_moo | indeed | 21:13 |
| Toxip | you should check out their web page | 21:14 |
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| temmi_moo | are you perhaps interested in hacking stuff or do you just want to be a software engineer pushing code to support a family? | 21:16 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr: know of some good resources for getting started with mqtt? | 21:16 |
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| Toxip | temmi_moo: I'd love to be a part of some interesting project | 21:17 |
| Toxip | I've been coding this little game for SFOS | 21:19 |
| temmi_moo | Toxip: oh that. i was just thinking you might like helsinki hacklab. but projects, projects. i have a huge one. open source general purpose very small embedded distributed control systems | 21:19 |
| Toxip | I tend to avoid anything that has the word embedded :D | 21:20 |
| tiwake | why? | 21:20 |
| tiwake | embedded development is so much fun | 21:20 |
| Toxip | embedded engineering is not my thing... | 21:20 |
| temmi_moo | embedded is nice, it means that all of your ram data structures can be hand written on paper | 21:20 |
| tiwake | depends on the embedded system, but yeah | 21:21 |
| temmi_moo | :) | 21:21 |
| tiwake | CNC machines these days are a lot more complicated than that, for example | 21:21 |
| r0kk3rz | embedded is cool, but each to their own | 21:21 |
| temmi_moo | even though the memory address range is 32bit wide the mcus have just kilowords or perhaps tens of kilowords ram | 21:22 |
| temmi_moo | quadruple that of flash | 21:22 |
| r0kk3rz | hopefully my sensors turn up this week and then i can have fun pointing my jolla at things | 21:22 |
| temmi_moo | :) | 21:22 |
| Toxip | I'll check out that helsinki hacklab though | 21:24 |
| temmi_moo | every tuesday is open night from 17-> | 21:24 |
| temmi_moo | takkatie 18, behind the frisbee shop | 21:24 |
| Toxip | on 6th too? | 21:27 |
| zutto | hmh | 21:28 |
| zutto | wasnt helsinki hacklab at nilsiänkatu before? | 21:28 |
| zutto | next to the school | 21:28 |
| temmi_moo | on 6th yes | 21:29 |
| temmi_moo | zutto: indeed but that building changed owners and is now destined to become full of trendy loft apartments | 21:30 |
| zutto | i see | 21:31 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: I started by installing mosquitto and playing around with it. bit of a learning curve, but not horrible. Make sure you have at least 1.3.x to avoid some bugs | 21:31 |
| r0kk3rz | your packages on obs work fine? | 21:32 |
| tbr | ah, device side? | 21:32 |
| tbr | I'd use my patched paho | 21:32 |
| tbr | from github | 21:33 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah ok | 21:34 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: https://github.com/dm8tbr/org.eclipse.paho.mqtt.python | 21:34 |
| tbr | this is used e.g. by my notification code: https://github.com/dm8tbr/irssi-mqtt-sailfish | 21:34 |
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| r0kk3rz | for those playing along, this is a good starter http://nthn.me/posts/2012/mqtt.html | 22:23 |
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| eyea_UK | jolla )0!1@ yoh | 22:24 |
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| r0kk3rz | this is also a pretty good overview: http://spin.atomicobject.com/2014/03/19/mqtt-protocol-ethernet/ | 22:49 |
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| tiwake | silly question... is the nokia N900 screen cover glass? | 22:56 |
| slate | no. | 22:56 |
| slate | if you mean the touch assy. | 22:57 |
| tiwake | alright, I wont use this glass polish stuff | 22:57 |
| slate | In theory, you could polish it with some stuff which is meant for plastic. | 23:00 |
| tiwake | yeah | 23:03 |
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| r0kk3rz | tiwake: attack it with some plexus | 23:06 |
| r0kk3rz | works pretty well on motorcycle visors | 23:06 |
| r0kk3rz | http://www.plexusplasticcleaner.com/about.html | 23:08 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr: I think i get it now, looks like a fairly useful little thing | 23:11 |
| * kimmoli wonders why i'm still coding... | 23:13 | |
| r0kk3rz | kimmoli: because its fun? | 23:13 |
| fennekki | "still" as in "why do I bother" or "still" as in "at 1am" | 23:13 |
| kimmoli | more like 1AM | 23:14 |
| r0kk3rz | 1am is prime coding time | 23:14 |
| r0kk3rz | especially if alcohol fueled | 23:15 |
| kimmoli | and "it worked 5min ago, why it doesnt work now" | 23:15 |
| kimmoli | "what i did change..." | 23:15 |
| r0kk3rz | dumb syntax errors usually | 23:15 |
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| kimmoli | yes, it goes to commit message category : https://github.com/CODeRUS/sailfishos-folder-icons-patch/commit/e0a00e674541a03e987c22893fe8ddcaa397945b | 23:19 |
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| kimmoli | but now it works, still lots of polishing | 23:22 |
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