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| jcbjoe | is there a setting that can make screen timeout longer ? | 00:22 |
|---|---|---|
| lpotter | yes | 00:23 |
| jcbjoe | lpotter: what is it ? | 00:26 |
| M4rtinK | jcbjoe: you can use this to completely disable it: https://openrepos.net/content/xmlich02/stay-awake | 00:26 |
| lpotter | settings->system->display | 00:27 |
| jcbjoe | what if i disable auto brightness and install the warehouse rpm | 00:29 |
| jcbjoe | will the warehouse one kill my battery faster ? | 00:29 |
| jcbjoe | thanks lpotter and M4rtinK | 00:32 |
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| M4rtinK | jcbjoe: the warehouse app will keep the display always on, even on battery | 00:33 |
| M4rtinK | and the "keep screen on on charger" is a new thing from U10 IIRC | 00:34 |
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| Warnaud | morning | 06:39 |
| Stskeeps | morning | 06:40 |
| Nicd- | mmm, dat -25°C | 06:44 |
| Nicd- | when your face hurts and your eyelashes start sticking together | 06:44 |
| temmi_moo | http://ell-i.org/open-illuminati-hackathon/ <-- for anybody interested in hacking with light | 06:44 |
| zutto | only -18c here | 06:45 |
| temmi_moo | -17 here in espoo | 06:45 |
| temmi_moo | btw i'm in otaniemi so if anybody wants to see open source hardware coolness... | 06:45 |
| tbr | good moaning | 06:47 |
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| locusf | morning :) | 07:06 |
| locusf | tbr: thanks for solving it, transplant might just do it :) | 07:06 |
| tbr | locusf: that's why I mentioned it | 07:09 |
| tbr | locusf: do a factory reset after writing the image, so that it comes up clean | 07:09 |
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| locusf | tbr: I only care for the free space, not sfos on the patient phone :) | 07:18 |
| tbr | :) | 07:19 |
| Stskeeps | you'll want that for modem and such sakes too | 07:20 |
| TMavica_Jolla | Morning | 07:23 |
| Stskeeps | morning TMavica_Jolla | 07:23 |
| Stskeeps | how's helsinki treating you | 07:23 |
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| TMavica_Jolla | nice! | 07:27 |
| TMavica_Jolla | but shop closed too early | 07:27 |
| Stskeeps | welcome to finland :P | 07:28 |
| Stskeeps | i was shocked to find out i couldn't buy a beer in a shop after 9pm | 07:28 |
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| TMavica_Jolla | lol | 07:29 |
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| TMavica_Jolla | today should go sibelous monument and rock church | 07:29 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 07:30 |
| TMavica_Jolla | sibelius seen too far for walking . | 07:31 |
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| Stskeeps | take tram? | 07:32 |
| TMavica_Jolla | what number? and when i need stop.. | 07:32 |
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| Stskeeps | maps.google.com will tell you | 07:35 |
| tbr | there is probably even a public transport app | 07:35 |
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| TMavica_Jolla_ | ok | 07:41 |
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| TemeV | Stskeeps: amateur mistakes, in Finland you need to maintain your own stash of beer :) | 08:05 |
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| Stskeeps | TemeV: i should just buy a storage somewhere.. | 08:06 |
| TemeV | :) | 08:08 |
| Obi-Lan | alcohol and bureaucracy | 08:12 |
| Obi-Lan | thats something thats is constantly out of control in finland | 08:15 |
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| japa-fi | cat /etc/sysctl.d/vm.conf | grep swappiness | 08:27 |
| japa-fi | # reduce swappiness to enhance the response to interactive | 08:28 |
| japa-fi | vm.swappiness = 30 | 08:28 |
| ln- | (useless use of cat) | 08:28 |
| japa-fi | cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness | 08:28 |
| japa-fi | 50 | 08:28 |
| japa-fi | 30 <> 50 | 08:28 |
| japa-fi | So apparently vm.conf is not read? | 08:28 |
| japa-fi | just wondering where I can set the overcommit_ratio to survive boots | 08:29 |
| Stskeeps | it's overriden by a later file | 08:33 |
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| Nicd- | hmmm, my btrfs fi show is telling me | 09:58 |
| Nicd- | Total devices 1 FS bytes used 6.15GiB | 09:59 |
| Nicd- | devid 1 size 13.75GiB used 13.75GiB path /dev/mmcblk0p28 | 09:59 |
| Nicd- | that bad? :P | 09:59 |
| ggabriel | could be, could be not | 09:59 |
| ggabriel | https://together.jolla.com/question/30822/root-and-home-disks-full-and-causing-various-problems/ | 09:59 |
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| ggabriel | long read, but worth it | 10:00 |
| Nicd- | I remember the output looking a bit different | 10:01 |
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| Nicd- | but I've been dreading the day when it's 13.75/13.75 again | 10:01 |
| Nicd- | took about a year | 10:01 |
| ggabriel | mine has been like that for ages fwiw | 10:02 |
| TemeV | I had around 12/13.75 few days back | 10:02 |
| TemeV | balance helps :) | 10:03 |
| ggabriel | balancing is a faff tho | 10:03 |
| ggabriel | but it may need to happen at some point | 10:03 |
| ggabriel | i thought i'd have time over xmas | 10:03 |
| ggabriel | but i guess i underestimated my free time ;) | 10:03 |
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| TemeV | i just put it running in screen | 10:03 |
| ggabriel | ideally you want the phone connected to the charger and whatnot | 10:04 |
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| ggabriel | uhm... my sd card has been funny. i hate sandisk | 10:10 |
| ggabriel | i don't think i'll ever buy them anything else | 10:10 |
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| japa-fi | I've tried syncevolution as tool to sync my contacts to my owncloud. The darn thing is not happy with the https certificate, it does not trust it. How can I add the certificate to jollas cert database as trusted? | 10:16 |
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| Nicd- | so, I have 4.53 GiB used in reality, how much can I realistically gain with a rebalance? | 10:34 |
| Nicd- | currently btrfs is at 12.82 used of 13.75 | 10:35 |
| tbr | try and find out | 10:35 |
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| Nicd- | well, doing -dusage=20 / now | 10:36 |
| Nicd- | usage went from 12.82 to 10.82, nice. | 10:37 |
| TemeV | mine seems to be now 8/13.75, really used 5.5G | 10:38 |
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| Nicd- | japa-fi: you can get a free certificate that sailfish trusts from startcom | 10:39 |
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| japa-fi | Nicd-, https://together.jolla.com/question/2949/where-can-i-add-a-system-ca-certificate/ <-- found this, followed the steps and now at least openssl states it trusts my certificate. | 10:40 |
| japa-fi | Yet, the sync evolution doesn't :( | 10:40 |
| Nicd- | TemeV: I'm already down to 6.60 used | 10:42 |
| TemeV | oh, well my Jolla has had a week or two time to use that space since balancing :) | 10:48 |
| Nicd- | now it has stopped getting smaller so I'll stop at 6.60 and just copy back my stuff | 10:49 |
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| Nicd- | phew, btrfs disaster avoided | 11:01 |
| Nicd- | ... maybe. it just rebooted | 11:01 |
| Nicd- | on its own | 11:01 |
| kimmoli | btrfs balance may reboot, but it should continue... | 11:02 |
| Nicd- | no, I mean I had already done the balance | 11:02 |
| Nicd- | and copied back my stuff and rebooted manually | 11:02 |
| Nicd- | then I opened younited and the phone rebooted | 11:02 |
| Nicd- | didn't see jolla logo or red led though so maybe just the UI died. dunno | 11:02 |
| kimmoli | i had some ah | 11:03 |
| kimmoli | ah | 11:03 |
| Nicd- | damn, it seems all of my ambiences have disappeared :( | 11:03 |
| Ezko | oh yeah | 11:06 |
| Ezko | should probably update my phone | 11:06 |
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| temmi_moo | sounds like i'll hold the update for a while yet still | 11:13 |
| meklu | any ambiances I have that use an image off the memory card get wiped on reboot | 11:15 |
| TemeV | I've been planning to make a rpm package for my ambiances. It seemed easy enough | 11:17 |
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| locusf | tbr: transplant worked, thanks for the tip :) | 13:39 |
| Venemo | I was under the impression that these kind of issues had been fixed in btrfs a long time ago | 13:40 |
| Nicd- | but jolla btrfs is ancient | 13:41 |
| Nicd- | at least the kernel, probably has backported patches on top of it though | 13:41 |
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| Venemo | Nicd-: IIRC they backported a lot of it (not sure about exact versions though) | 13:43 |
| M4rtinK | seeing how btrfs gets broken every other kernel release (and even point release! :P) I'm not sure backports will help much :) | 13:45 |
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| Venemo | a while ago I saw a benchmark that compared btrfs with other file systems | 13:55 |
| Venemo | and it convinced me to stop caring :( btrfs doesn't perform any faster than the others | 13:55 |
| Venemo | so what's the point then. | 13:55 |
| nbg23 | btrfs isn't about performance. it provides features no other filesystem has. | 13:56 |
| Nicd- | except zfs? | 13:56 |
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| meklu | it's like zfs but unstable and exciting! | 13:56 |
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| TemeV | I've heard zfs on linux is also unstable and exciting? | 14:04 |
| nbg23 | is jolla actually using any of the feautures that other linux filesystems (e.g. ext4) do not provide? If they don't, I don't quite understand the motivation behind using an experimental filesystem with a relatively old kernel. | 14:04 |
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| flux | well, the factory reset image is a snapshot | 14:04 |
| flux | so when you start the system the first time, you get to modify the system and the snapshot stays intact | 14:05 |
| flux | with ext4 that would either mean copying the factory reset image to the startup filesystem, or using lvm snapshots | 14:05 |
| flux | not sure how great the latter option would be | 14:05 |
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| flux | at least the concept of 'free space' would be even murkier there | 14:05 |
| flux | perhaps some overlay filesystem with some support for partially writing to files would work. | 14:07 |
| flux | btrfs also supports compression, I don't know if jolla makes use of it (but it seems to me it certainly could, the binaries do take some space) | 14:07 |
| tbr | kernel.org only just merged an overlay filesystem | 14:07 |
| flux | I don't think it works in this scenario out-of-the-box, does it? | 14:08 |
| tbr | everything so far in that space had a bag of problems | 14:08 |
| nbg23 | I think it actually makes sense for a small company like jolla to use existing solutions which need only little self-made adjustements. | 14:08 |
| nbg23 | at least they can blame someone else if things don't work ;) | 14:08 |
| tbr | I even used one of the early ones on a 2.4.19 kernel | 14:08 |
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| tbr | and it wasn't fun at all | 14:08 |
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| flux | I just wish jolla gets the enhancements btrfs folks are doing, but I most wonder how much work will the backporting become in the long run | 14:09 |
| tbr | backporting features like btrfs is nearly impossible | 14:10 |
| tbr | so much around them changes | 14:10 |
| Nicd- | maybe they should just make the phone balance with some low -dusage setting periodically to attempt to keep the filesystem happy | 14:10 |
| Nicd- | and hope the balancing won't kill it :P | 14:10 |
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| tbr | brings up an interesting question: what FS will we see on the tablet :) | 14:11 |
| flux | even if jolla project does find issues in the btrfs filesystem, it's doubtful the btrfs folks will care about problems with such obsolete codebase :) | 14:11 |
| tbr | btrfs might work better there as it should have a newer kernel | 14:11 |
| tbr | flux: correct, if then jolla has to backport stuff on their own and that's probably more than a full time job | 14:12 |
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| ggabriel | ummm | 14:18 |
| ggabriel | if the fs on the tablet isn't btrfs, then how would an upgrade from 1.0 to 2.0 go about? | 14:19 |
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| ggabriel | or maybe 2.0 will work with both btrfs and something else | 14:19 |
| * ggabriel reckons hpfs is a good fs for 2.0 :P | 14:20 | |
| Aard | ggabriel: first, don't focus on the "1.0" vs "2.0", we keep releasing improvements in regular intervals. second, we can run on arbitrary filesystems, just the way factory reset is done on jolla1 depends on btrfs | 14:20 |
| ggabriel | Aard: well, that was actually what i was wondering. if recovery is the only dependency, then it should be easy to support >1 fs in future | 14:21 |
| ggabriel | my point i guess is that it isn't trivial to migrate current sailfish from btrfs to [say] ext4 | 14:21 |
| ggabriel | the other way around would be almost trivial though | 14:21 |
| Aard | if tablet gets a different filesystem jolla1 would still continue using btrfs | 14:22 |
| ggabriel | jolla1 == phone ? yup | 14:23 |
| ggabriel | :) | 14:23 |
| Aard | yes | 14:24 |
| locusf | does Jolla kernel have CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER enabled? | 14:25 |
| locusf | hmm | 14:26 |
| ggabriel | sorry, no zgrep :P | 14:26 |
| ggabriel | too lazy to cp etc | 14:27 |
| locusf | seems that this build of ubuntu won't work due to: * Userspace firmware loading support has been removed and | 14:27 |
| locusf | the minimum supported kernel version is thus bumped to 3.7. | 14:27 |
| flux | ggabriel, well, not trivial but possible if at least 50% space is available, as you can trivially reduce btrfs size on-the-fly | 14:27 |
| locusf | sorry for the flood | 14:27 |
| flux | personally I would like to see btrfs go forth, but it's pretty bad if it cannot be upgraded to the latest and bestest :/ | 14:28 |
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| ggabriel | flux: well, i hardly use the internal storage and I'm at ~50% usage already | 14:28 |
| tigeli | flux: the backporting is pain in the ass.. | 14:28 |
| ggabriel | hardly use=meerun i think is the highest consumer, then it's caches and wahtnot | 14:28 |
| tigeli | flux: and for some other issues we just can upgrade the kernel | 14:29 |
| tigeli | can't | 14:29 |
| flux | it might save some more space if it were possible to upgrade the factory reset image and then arrange it so that current / is shared with that | 14:29 |
| flux | tigeli, yes, I understand the reality is that neither the kernel can be upgraded and neither can btrfs be backported in a bulk-like fashion, perhaps some smaller fix are possible to port | 14:30 |
| flux | though it's quite annoying that the kernel cannot be upgraded. | 14:30 |
| tigeli | flux: we have cherry-picked fixes to the btrfs :) | 14:30 |
| tigeli | flux: also, you can reset the factory to image any btrfs-snapshot if you really want to | 14:31 |
| tigeli | flux: there's even a tool for it (sailfish-snapshot) | 14:31 |
| flux | tigeli, that's a good point.. | 14:31 |
| tigeli | flux: https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-snapshot | 14:31 |
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| M4rtinK | BTW, LVM can also do thin/COW snapshots these days :) | 14:37 |
| M4rtinK | and unlike btrfs it is sane :) | 14:37 |
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| flux | so how about when you run out of space? | 14:37 |
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| M4rtinK | also there are separate internal logical volumes for data & metadata | 14:38 |
| M4rtinK | you you can easily check for free space in both | 14:38 |
| flux | but what concretely happens when you yes > hello | 14:39 |
| M4rtinK | or even resize metadata volume if too small | 14:39 |
| tigeli | I would not use thin provision unless you really are sure that you can add more raw-storage when needed | 14:39 |
| flux | does the filesystem say "out of space" or does it say "io error" | 14:39 |
| M4rtinK | tigeli: well, AFAIK the tnin/COW snapshots need thin provisioning | 14:39 |
| flux | or does it say "fatal io error, remounting as read only" :-) | 14:40 |
| flux | I guess it simply get stuck until someone makes more space. | 14:40 |
| flux | (to the block device) | 14:40 |
| flux | (+could) | 14:41 |
| M4rtinK | well when I started having issues with btrfs on my Jolla | 14:43 |
| M4rtinK | it was not very deterministic | 14:43 |
| M4rtinK | basically file operations failed at random | 14:43 |
| M4rtinK | you could touch a file, edit it save it | 14:43 |
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| M4rtinK | but if you wanted to take a picture | 14:44 |
| M4rtinK | you had about a 50% chance of it being saved | 14:44 |
| tigeli | M4rtinK: not really, you can have exact amount of unallocated space available what has been allocated :) | 14:44 |
| tigeli | but nobody really does that.. unless you are working for government :D | 14:44 |
| tigeli | "yes we always have x TB unallocated for writes to be guaranteed to succeed" | 14:45 |
| M4rtinK | I've heard some horror stories about distributing thin volumes to users/departments | 14:46 |
| M4rtinK | without communicating the main principle behind them :) | 14:47 |
| tigeli | haha :) | 14:47 |
| M4rtinK | so people checked free space - 1 TB volume, nice! :) | 14:47 |
| M4rtinK | and after a while, fun started when the pool rapidly run out :D | 14:47 |
| M4rtinK | and random production stuff running of it started to fail :D | 14:48 |
| tigeli | people don't either realize that deleting files/dirs from a storage does not free up the space immediately but in worst case days later | 14:48 |
| M4rtinK | yeah | 14:48 |
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| M4rtinK | even on workstations people usually don't mount with trim | 14:48 |
| M4rtinK | but use croned fstrim, usually once a day | 14:49 |
| M4rtinK | so even there it can be an issues | 14:49 |
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| M4rtinK | even though I've read about some "online" trim improvements coming for XFS or EXT | 14:49 |
| M4rtinK | most probably some sort of internal batching | 14:50 |
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| fennekki | i wonder if you could get Mumble to work on Jolla | 15:48 |
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| SK_work | fennekki: maybe, if you can manage to build dependencies | 15:59 |
| SK_work | not an easy task | 15:59 |
| SK_work | plus you need to write a custom ui | 15:59 |
| locusf | I wonder whats up with adreno firmware file not loading in ubuntu | 15:59 |
| locusf | I've put it in many places but its still not picked up by udev or the kernel | 16:00 |
| jcbjoe | did anyone get my last message ? | 16:08 |
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| meklu | if it happened within the last hour, no | 16:11 |
| jcbjoe | hello .. how long does it take to get some kind of tracking information if you buy something directly from the jolla store ? | 16:12 |
| jcbjoe | ^ | 16:12 |
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| tigeli | jcbjoe: you mean shop.jolla.com? | 16:12 |
| jcbjoe | yes | 16:12 |
| tigeli | jcbjoe: http://shop.jolla.com/eu_en/orders-delivery/ | 16:14 |
| urs | i got mine the moment they shipped, approx 2 days after ordering | 16:16 |
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| jcbjoe | ok | 16:17 |
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| jcbjoe | ok | 16:21 |
| jcbjoe | oops sorry i was on another screen | 16:21 |
| jcbjoe | i purchased it on satruday a black other half and a screen protector | 16:22 |
| jcbjoe | so Tuesday it might ship out right ? | 16:22 |
| jcbjoe | i'm trying to gauge how fast it ships cuase i stil have to order my jolla :D | 16:22 |
| jcbjoe | trying to see if i get it from amazon or shop.jolla.com | 16:22 |
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| locusf | hmm of course Jolla kernel doesn't use fw_path :p | 16:25 |
| locusf | and it seems that I gotta hunt this down from the gpl drop :D | 16:26 |
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| Ezko | jcbjoe: 1st and 6th of january are national holidays in finland so it might take longer than expected | 17:47 |
| jcbjoe | Ezko: dam | 17:51 |
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| jcbjoe | i will order it from amazon and do one of there 1 day shipping options then | 17:54 |
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| Obi-Lan | dolphin seems to be quite nice browser for Jolla | 20:38 |
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| salyavin | well it's an android app right? | 20:47 |
| salyavin | so not so nice :P | 20:47 |
| Obi-Lan | lets put it this way; sucks less than Jolla stock browser | 20:52 |
| Obi-Lan | (and has lastpass plugin) | 20:52 |
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| NRKA | Hi, is it possible to change mac address, on the Jolla phone? | 21:05 |
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| cvp_ | O/ | 21:09 |
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| Tegu | what the... my father has a pre-ordered jolla and its receipt says that it has 24-month warranty. meanwhile, my receipt says that jolla has 12-month warranty. mine has been bought from a store, so no preordering or webstore.. I wonder why the times differ | 21:41 |
| tbr | you answered yourself. different seller. | 21:43 |
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| cvp_ | Tegu, directly from jolla store ? | 21:51 |
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| Tegu | tbr, well, yea. I just didn't know it could affect | 21:53 |
| Tegu | cvp_: other from the jolla preorder webstore, other from dna store | 21:54 |
| Tegu | so, purely own fault :P | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | worth a question to care i guess | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/consumer_topics/buying_goods_services_en.htm | 21:59 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: thats's a whole different topic | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | mmm, admittedly i'm not so much into consumer laws | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | i presume the 12 one is 'own commercial guarantee' as on that page | 22:00 |
| tbr | for new consumer goods the statutory EU warranty is 24 months. 6+18 | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 22:00 |
| tbr | now in addition to that the seller, reseller and manufacturer can be offering various warranty schemes of their own volition and are not restricted in those in any way | 22:01 |
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| Stskeeps | so the 12 one is likely the own warranty scheme and 24 was from when nobody had a clue what we were doing..? | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | doesn't stop the 6+18 warranty though | 22:04 |
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| tbr | all correct | 22:06 |
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| tbr | and unless stated on the receipt it's a seller warranty (just like the 6+18) | 22:06 |
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| tbr | if it would state on packaging or leaflet, then it would likely be a manufacturer backed warranty | 22:07 |
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| phlixi | I can only tell about the german regulations, where you have 6+18, within the first 6 months the seller has to prove it was OK when sold, and after that until 24th month the buyer has to prove the fault existed when bought. This is purely between the selling party and the customer, the manufacorer is not involved at all. | 22:25 |
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| tbr | phlixi: that's EU level, not just germany | 22:26 |
| phlixi | beyond this the manufactor can give further promises | 22:26 |
| phlixi | then you have to deal with the manufactor | 22:27 |
| tbr | it's not just the manufacturer. see my earlier comments. | 22:28 |
| phlixi | wasnt sure about EU, only know about germany; but of course it is plausible that this is not limited to germany :-) | 22:28 |
| phlixi | just wanted to emphazise that this is only between seller and customer. everything beyond (including the manufactor) that is optinal | 22:30 |
| phlixi | thus its perfectly fine to have different intervals on different stores | 22:31 |
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