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| ryukafalz | sledges: well that's neo900 :P | 00:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | zenvoid: it depends. | 01:38 |
| SpeedEvil | zenvoid: if you're starting with a full BOM kit from intel, it may be rather smaller | 01:38 |
| SpeedEvil | - at least from a hardware point of view | 01:38 |
| SpeedEvil | on a related matter - where is this sold from - and has anyone found any warranty details? | 01:38 |
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| pp_ | money went to jolla asia (so hong kong?) | 05:35 |
| pp_ | hehe, almost out of the second batch as well | 05:35 |
| locusf | yeah just 100 left | 05:39 |
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| * pahartik will consider tablet or laptop after Jolla does it with ARMv8-A | 05:42 | |
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| Teemu | a nonARM for the tablet surprised me | 05:57 |
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| pahartik | Teemu: Tablet is nice thing, it is just that I do not like idea of x86 for anything | 06:10 |
| Teemu | i dislike x86 like anybody | 06:10 |
| Teemu | my alltime liking for arm has gotten stronger now that i've actually played with them at ell-i | 06:11 |
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| pahartik | Teemu: Define "ell-i" | 06:11 |
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| Teemu | ell-i open source cooperative, http://ell-i.org/about/ we do open source software and open source hardware devboards | 06:13 |
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| pahartik | Teemu: Very good | 06:17 |
| Teemu | http://github.com/ELL-i/ | 06:17 |
| Teemu | currently in the works is an ethernet nic w/ poe 5vdc supply for the st nucleo family | 06:17 |
| Teemu | don't i know your nick from #altparty? | 06:20 |
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| pahartik | Teemu: I have appeared on that channel too | 06:22 |
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| Teemu | and the parties? | 06:24 |
| pahartik | Teemu: Several times | 06:25 |
| Teemu | :) | 06:25 |
| Teemu | thought so | 06:26 |
| Teemu | anyway we're hosted at helsinki hacklab, now pitäjänmäki, so getting in the know is pretty easy | 06:27 |
| pahartik | Teemu: So this got started in local hackerspace? | 06:29 |
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| Teemu | in a way yes and no :) | 06:32 |
| Teemu | it got started on a luonto-liitto camp for families | 06:33 |
| Teemu | i was hosting the camp as instructor and ran into pekka nikander (the one) and started chatting since he is kind of celebrity in the circles | 06:34 |
| Teemu | turns out we had similar ideas about our homes' automation needs and half a year later we decided to shift from chatting to actual design and zeroth implementation | 06:34 |
| Teemu | first assembly was done at pekka's home and helsinki hacklab that was in vallila at the time | 06:35 |
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| pahartik | Teemu: When is "ELL-i node" available as product? | 06:35 |
| Teemu | current idea of an elli node is stacking a nucleo board with our nic+supply and some application electronics, we're doing a run of 200 nics | 06:37 |
| Teemu | i estimate we can sell them by january, perhaps possibly before christmas | 06:38 |
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| pahartik | Teemu: Acknowledged | 06:41 |
| Teemu | are you in the greater helsinki area? | 06:41 |
| pahartik | Teemu: My location is Tampere, Finland | 06:42 |
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| Teemu | ah okay | 06:44 |
| Teemu | so you're in the 5w and perhaps hosting the hackerspace event in january? | 06:45 |
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| pahartik | Teemu: Yes, most likely getting somehow involved | 06:46 |
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| Teemu | i'll make it a point to attend as we have things to show :) | 06:47 |
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| entil | Teemu: what's up with the undercover nick?-) | 06:49 |
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| Teemu | DAMN i always forget i'm cloakanddaggers in here | 06:49 |
| Teemu | in #elsewhere some time ago there was a huge mess of people referring to each other by their given name if it wasn't their nick | 06:50 |
| Teemu | as in: SOMEONE EVIL might spy on us and do EVYL stuff if you mention realnames | 06:50 |
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| entil | ... right | 06:50 |
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| kimmoli | /whois Teemu | 06:51 |
| kimmoli | ? | 06:51 |
| Teemu | so i set my nick as my realname as it is mighty stupid idea to not refer to people i know with their realnames | 06:51 |
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| Teemu | i'm temmi_hoo in the larger world | 06:51 |
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| pahartik | Teemu: Oh, that | 06:52 |
| kimmoli | and Teemu i'm interested also in that poe "shield" | 06:52 |
| entil | there are people who refer to me as entil irl :D | 06:52 |
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| Teemu | :) come see us at the helsinki hacklab, any tuesday evening | 06:52 |
| entil | and I have a bunch of contacts stored as irc-nick lastname :> | 06:52 |
| Teemu | entil: yes, i'm commonly referred to as temmi in irl | 06:53 |
| joonahoi | hi temmi | 06:54 |
| joonahoi | ;) | 06:54 |
| Teemu | damn you, leela! | 06:55 |
| Teemu | moi | 06:55 |
| Teemu | things i want to do: network-enabled control electronics for a marzocco espresso maker | 06:56 |
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| AL13N | whoa almost 900k and 35 units left | 06:57 |
| entil | holy jebus :D | 06:57 |
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| entil | wonder what the odds are that they'll maintain this pace once the tablet hits the markets | 07:01 |
| Teemu | pretty slim | 07:02 |
| entil | probably slim, but then everyone'll see what a beautiful product it is and they'll gain an upward trend ;) | 07:02 |
| entil | just hoping the hardware will be good enough in half a year, people love bitching about "old" hardware, as if specs were everything | 07:02 |
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| Teemu | just like in the late 90s people were throwing their useless old pc hw away and opensource affiniados like me were laughing as the machines had 5+ years of useful life left with good performance given good software | 07:03 |
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| Teemu | kimmoli is from clinet ip space, 194.100.something was my first fixed ip for hjak.fi, we were connected with current loop tranceivers to clinet sörkkä pop | 07:13 |
| suosaaski | We had 194.100.... at one point too. Well, a year ago. | 07:14 |
| Teemu | :) | 07:14 |
| Teemu | this was nearly two decades ago | 07:14 |
| _inte_ | oh they just opened another perk | 07:14 |
| _inte_ | 209$/1000u | 07:15 |
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| jonwil | I have heard of internet connected coffee machines but never an internet connected espresso machine... | 07:22 |
| jonwil | I did hear of an internet enabled coke machine once though... | 07:23 |
| Teemu | :) | 07:23 |
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| Teemu | i'd want to connect a real and goor barista-operated machine so as to collect statistics and have real data on the energy and water consumption as well as graphs on how well the machine maintained its temperature and pressure | 07:24 |
| Teemu | also i could have some kind of recommendation on when to maintain the device | 07:24 |
| Teemu | s/goor/good/ | 07:25 |
| Teemu | such as the one in kahvila sävy (i'm sure mikko would just love that and do half the installation work with me) | 07:26 |
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| _inte_ | the momentum has significantely slowed down | 07:29 |
| _inte_ | still 4 devices left from the 204$ perk | 07:30 |
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| Teemu | the jeri-glasses-kickstarter didn't go this fast | 07:37 |
| meklu | well, the 2k batch is gone | 07:39 |
| pp_ | yea, it's no longer super cheap :-) | 07:39 |
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| meklu | ha, +$5 again :) | 07:40 |
| Nicd- | oooh they sold out 4000 already | 07:43 |
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| lainwir3d | hi | 07:44 |
| lainwir3d | holy crap, 235% / $891,808 | 07:45 |
| Nicd- | no word of it on today's newspaper though :/ | 07:47 |
| Nicd- | I wished they would've put even a small article | 07:47 |
| lainwir3d | yeah | 07:47 |
| _inte_ | which newspaper? | 07:47 |
| lainwir3d | they care only for the boring big players | 07:47 |
| _inte_ | was in technews around the world already | 07:47 |
| _inte_ | well, around europe at least | 07:47 |
| suosaaski | yes, it was. | 07:48 |
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| Nicd- | _inte_: finnish aamulehti | 07:50 |
| Nicd- | would've thought finnish papers would be excited about it | 07:50 |
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| _inte_ | ok i agree | 07:51 |
| _inte_ | well, maybe tomorrow | 07:51 |
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| TemeV | Aamulehti had big article about N1 yesterday | 07:52 |
| TemeV | so I would have also expected something about Jolla Tablet | 07:52 |
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| lainwir3d | this is irritating | 07:53 |
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| TemeV | Especially because Jolla was founded in Pirkkala (next to Tampere) so it is from "Aamulehti region" | 07:54 |
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| Tofe | What, Jolla won't even make it to 900,000$ in one day? What a shame ;) | 08:00 |
| AL13N_work | well, the 4000units are gone... | 08:00 |
| Tofe | AL13N_work: there is another batch at 209$ | 08:00 |
| AL13N_work | i noticed | 08:00 |
| AL13N_work | already 11 units gone | 08:01 |
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| TemeV | We can start betting when the million $ is breached :) | 08:02 |
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| Tofe | TemeV: they need to sell about 500 more tablets | 08:06 |
| Tofe | in 20 days | 08:06 |
| AL13N_work | i'm betting it's somewhere today | 08:06 |
| Tofe | 6 were sold in the last 5 minutes | 08:06 |
| AL13N_work | ok, so let's make bets | 08:07 |
| Tofe | I bet 13:00 | 08:07 |
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| AL13N_work | i'm betting on 17:34 CET | 08:07 |
| AL13N_work | right now, i got 9:00 | 08:07 |
| AL13N_work | well 9:07 | 08:08 |
| AL13N_work | well 9:08 | 08:08 |
| Tofe | AL13N_work: me too | 08:08 |
| AL13N_work | ok | 08:08 |
| Armadillo | still thinking if it could be a replacement for my 6 year old 12" laptop :-/ | 08:08 |
| AL13N_work | too bad we have to wait until May | 08:08 |
| Tofe | ok, 13:00 CET for me. Let's be excessively optimistic :) | 08:08 |
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| TemeV | Ok, I'll bet 14:32 UTC | 08:09 |
| _inte_ | that is an interesting read: http://lwn.net/Articles/606100/ | 08:09 |
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| Armadillo | _inte_ but a completely different situation than the Jolla Tablet is in | 08:11 |
| _inte_ | sure | 08:12 |
| _inte_ | but i once read about the vivaldi tablet | 08:12 |
| _inte_ | then never heard about again | 08:12 |
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| _inte_ | so i just decided to google it as it was the only gnu/linux tablet ever anounced before | 08:13 |
| _inte_ | (except, for the wetab. lol:)) | 08:13 |
| _inte_ | and i just learned they failed | 08:13 |
| _inte_ | but jolla is just completly different of course | 08:14 |
| tbr | there was the kde tablet too | 08:14 |
| tbr | but that failed to get to market | 08:14 |
| _inte_ | thats what my link is about :) | 08:14 |
| _inte_ | it describes why they failed | 08:15 |
| _inte_ | e.g. because the tried to do business in asia from europe | 08:15 |
| _inte_ | they | 08:15 |
| _inte_ | probably the main reason | 08:15 |
| tbr | I think they had deep rooted supply chain problems, but as it ended in a big flame fest of everyone blaming the others... | 08:15 |
| _inte_ | yes | 08:16 |
| _inte_ | thats also stated in the article:) | 08:16 |
| _inte_ | a friend of mine is doing business in asia too and he really had some serious fights in some factories before the workers eventually worked | 08:17 |
| _inte_ | you cant do that from europe | 08:17 |
| tbr | ah you meant b2b not b2c, yes that's another ballpark | 08:18 |
| tbr | no way to do that remotely | 08:18 |
| _inte_ | hehe | 08:19 |
| _inte_ | yes | 08:19 |
| _inte_ | but seems like makeplaylive actually tried that | 08:19 |
| * tbr knows a companies' R&D well that uses contract manufacturing in china, took them a bit to align things, but nowadays they get a lot of value out of it. | 08:20 | |
| tbr | looks like in the process they opened an office in shenzhen to manage suppliers :> | 08:20 |
| _inte_ | jep | 08:21 |
| _inte_ | probably neccessary | 08:21 |
| Jope | also one crucial thing is the insistence on open sourcing all drivers | 08:21 |
| Jope | for the time being it is very difficult | 08:21 |
| tbr | and chinese companies do not understand that concept at all | 08:21 |
| tbr | even getting GPL compliance out of them is a challenge | 08:22 |
| _inte_ | seems so | 08:25 |
| _inte_ | btw. | 08:25 |
| _inte_ | does sfos2.0 have multiuser support? | 08:25 |
| _inte_ | makes sense on a tablet | 08:25 |
| entil | I was wondering about the same thing | 08:25 |
| _inte_ | no word on that on neither site | 08:26 |
| entil | maybe there should be a tjc vote on it ;P | 08:26 |
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| mornfall | I guess it's a question of whipping up a GUI for it... | 08:26 |
| entil | it's probably a bit more than just a gui | 08:26 |
| entil | not necessarily too much but still | 08:26 |
| pp_ | adduser nemo2 :P | 08:27 |
| mornfall | well, the GUI may be a bit tricky because you want to run the compositor as the target user I guess | 08:28 |
| entil | and hack all the init so that it logs in as nemo2 | 08:28 |
| entil | because this is the linux way | 08:28 |
| mornfall | (I think the official wayland approach is that you run a compositor stack, a system-level compositor and a nested user-level one) | 08:28 |
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| _inte_ | but this should be implemented already? | 08:30 |
| mornfall | in lipstick? doubt it | 08:30 |
| _inte_ | i cant imaging sfos is the only linux | 08:30 |
| _inte_ | ah right | 08:30 |
| _inte_ | differen compositor | 08:30 |
| mornfall | well, weston probably doesn't have it either | 08:30 |
| mornfall | at least not exactly finished | 08:30 |
| _inte_ | ok | 08:30 |
| _inte_ | why is jolla not using weston, btw? | 08:30 |
| mornfall | it's not like a viable wayland desktop exists | 08:30 |
| Stskeeps | weston is a reference compositor | 08:31 |
| mornfall | because it sucks :-) | 08:31 |
| Stskeeps | we use qtcompositor based | 08:31 |
| _inte_ | at least weston supports nested X:) | 08:31 |
| _inte_ | ok | 08:31 |
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| mornfall | weston is a desktop-ish thing | 08:31 |
| mornfall | so would need a lot of hacking up to work for a phone | 08:31 |
| _inte_ | you mean its bigger | 08:31 |
| _inte_ | ok | 08:31 |
| jonwil | Given the general Chinese view that IP violations are perfectly fine (see all the counterfeit goods that get made in that county) its not surprising that Chinese vendors don't care about GPL. | 08:31 |
| mornfall | conceptually -- overlapping windows, decorations (even if plugin-based), bla bla | 08:32 |
| _inte_ | ok i see | 08:32 |
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| mornfall | and well, neither gnome nor kde plan on using weston either AFAIU | 08:32 |
| suy | What was the name of the compositor running on SFOS? | 08:32 |
| mornfall | so it's going to be the forever-buggy reference I guess | 08:33 |
| mornfall | suy: lipstick | 08:33 |
| mornfall | like xcompmgr to this day :-) | 08:33 |
| _inte_ | but still, lipstick should also support nested X-windows at least on the tablet | 08:33 |
| suy | mornfall: ah, ok, true, thank you. | 08:33 |
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| _inte_ | there are so many (commercial) X-related programmes | 08:33 |
| mornfall | _inte_: yes, xwayland would be nifty | 08:33 |
| _inte_ | like linux games | 08:33 |
| _inte_ | which could be fun on the tablet as well | 08:33 |
| mornfall | _inte_: forget that one though | 08:33 |
| _inte_ | well, not 3d highend games | 08:34 |
| mornfall | _inte_: no way the atom with powervr is going to deliver 30fps on 2K resolution for a desktop game | 08:34 |
| _inte_ | but the strategy stuff you get from time to time | 08:34 |
| _inte_ | through these humble bundles | 08:34 |
| mornfall | freeciv? :-) | 08:34 |
| mornfall | ah, well | 08:34 |
| mornfall | might work, maybe, possibly | 08:34 |
| mornfall | also those are GL games, soon they'll be available in versions that run wayland I guess | 08:35 |
| _inte_ | but freeciv and xskat are also nice:) | 08:35 |
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| _inte_ | i was wondering | 08:35 |
| Tofe | you forget about one essential problem: how would the xwayland implementation be supposed to handle multiple windows ? | 08:35 |
| mornfall | matter of SDL being ported or something | 08:35 |
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| mornfall | Tofe: it'd have to be an “app” from the lipstick POV I guess | 08:36 |
| meklu | SDL2 should already run on Sailfish | 08:36 |
| mornfall | alternatively... clients in X can't really dictate what happens to their windows, you could put them all in a stack fullscreen | 08:36 |
| meklu | but I only get a black screen on the phone :( | 08:36 |
| mornfall | but xwayland on the phone may be more trouble than worth; on the tablet though | 08:37 |
| Nicd- | meklu: you should port löve for sailfish ;) | 08:38 |
| meklu | D: | 08:38 |
| mornfall | also, calligra mobile? :) | 08:38 |
| mornfall | (it will probably run natively on wayland) | 08:38 |
| _inte_ | calligra is qt | 08:38 |
| meklu | should probably look at compiling SDL from hg | 08:38 |
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| meklu | and statically linking that and then putting that on the device | 08:38 |
| meklu | could be some upstream bug, could be some lipstick-specific "ey yo show this damn thing" bit missing | 08:39 |
| _inte_ | what about browser plugins | 08:39 |
| _inte_ | like silverlight in wine(pipelight) | 08:39 |
| mornfall | _inte_: what I meant was, can we have calligra mobile in the store for the tablet launch? | 08:39 |
| mornfall | yuck silverlight | 08:39 |
| _inte_ | that would be nice | 08:39 |
| meklu | yuck | 08:39 |
| Nicd- | yuck | 08:40 |
| _inte_ | silverlight is necessary for skygo | 08:40 |
| meklu | the wayland version of chromium + widevine CDM from chrome... | 08:40 |
| _inte_ | of course it sucks | 08:40 |
| meklu | you could watch netflix on it then | 08:40 |
| Tofe | mornfall: same remark here: how would you handle multiple top-level windows from calligra ? Let's just consider "Open file..." | 08:40 |
| meklu | or just use the android app :P | 08:40 |
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| Tofe | Getting a smooth experience for these app would be a nightmare | 08:41 |
| mornfall | Tofe: calligra touch is... touch :) i'd hope they thought of that themselves | 08:41 |
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| mornfall | er, mobile | 08:41 |
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| mornfall | whatever | 08:41 |
| mornfall | it has a touch interface anyway | 08:41 |
| meklu | Nicd-: you know what'd be cool? a lövely api for application cover stuff | 08:41 |
| _inte_ | Tofe there are touchscreen port of many kde apps already | 08:41 |
| meklu | although then you'd probably want to specify your own qml file for that sort of thing :P | 08:42 |
| mornfall | Tofe: and well, a fullscreen stack is how exactly different from how dialogs in sailfish work now? | 08:42 |
| meklu | a little shim for pumping properties into that sort of thing could be awesome | 08:42 |
| mornfall | btw. what is this talk of indiegogo ending on 5k tablets? | 08:42 |
| meklu | don't ask me | 08:43 |
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| Tofe | mornfall: it is very different from lipstick POV | 08:44 |
| mornfall | Tofe: well, are we talking implementation or principle? | 08:44 |
| pp_ | mornfall: 106000 facebook likes | 08:45 |
| _inte_ | oh, about 900k | 08:45 |
| Tofe | mornfall: principle. In lipstick, a new top-level window is a new app. | 08:45 |
| mornfall | nobody said xwayland will be “for free”, but I don't see a reason in principle why it couldn't work | 08:45 |
| pp_ | 34.4k twitter followers | 08:45 |
| mornfall | Tofe: that's not a principle, that's a technical limitation | 08:45 |
| pp_ | and 10k bought phones (:D :D :D) so a total of 150000 | 08:45 |
| mornfall | Tofe: (most likely not even a very important one) | 08:46 |
| suosaaski | so, is there any actual facts on the number of phones sold? | 08:46 |
| pp_ | nope, downloads of "android support" or "calendar" are at "25k+ " | 08:47 |
| Tofe | mornfall: everything is a technical limitation, if you have it that way :) | 08:47 |
| mornfall | Tofe: well, I don't think the equation app == window is particularly important, especially if you are creating a new type of windows (X11) anyway | 08:47 |
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| suosaaski | pp_: yes, well, how are they counted? If one was to reset their jolla, and redownload, would it count? And if a jolla is sold and the new persons starts using, then downloads, then that would count, right? | 08:48 |
| mornfall | Tofe: you could always hack it up to have lipstick switch to passthrough for xwayland and have a special compositor just for that | 08:48 |
| mornfall | Tofe: the way android apps render into lipstick buffers is almost certainly a massive hack in itself :P | 08:49 |
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| Tofe | mornfall: yes, ok, fair enough :) | 08:49 |
| pp_ | probably so | 08:49 |
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| suosaaski | That multitasking view looks nice, at least on the screenshot :| | 08:50 |
| mornfall | hm, in the tablet animations, switching an ambiance seems to also show a different set of apps? (kinda like plasma activities) | 08:52 |
| mornfall | 2D app switching? :) | 08:52 |
| lainwir3d | 900k | 08:53 |
| mornfall | yeah, it'll easily hit a million now | 08:53 |
| lainwir3d | true | 08:53 |
| mornfall | but not much more than that if there's really a limit of 5k devices | 08:53 |
| lainwir3d | a coworker wanted to boy one yesterday | 08:54 |
| Tofe | mornfall: easily yes, but I have a tight bet to win! | 08:54 |
| lainwir3d | not sure if he has, now it's 5$ more | 08:54 |
| SK_work | 209$ | 08:54 |
| SK_work | then 214$ etc. | 08:54 |
| lainwir3d | it's beginning to be quite more expansive than the first 1000 | 08:54 |
| mornfall | SK_work: someone in comments said there won't be any further perks after the $209 kilotablets | 08:54 |
| mornfall | but no idea where that came from | 08:54 |
| mornfall | it wasn't Jolla | 08:55 |
| SK_work | indeed | 08:55 |
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| SK_work | mornfall: :s | 08:55 |
| SK_work | mornfall: rumors ? | 08:55 |
| Naranek | It's over $900 000!!! | 08:55 |
| mornfall | Tofe: what's your bet? :) | 08:55 |
| TemeV | Why would they limit to 5k devices? | 08:55 |
| Tofe | mornfall: 13:00 CET | 08:55 |
| mornfall | hmm | 08:55 |
| lainwir3d | 9000k | 08:55 |
| lainwir3d | :P | 08:55 |
| mornfall | yes, that's tight :-) | 08:55 |
| Tofe | I know I know, I panicked | 08:56 |
| SK_work | 24M | 08:56 |
| TemeV | It seems quite obvius they can sell another 5k, so they could just order 10k right away | 08:56 |
| SK_work | remember 24M of Ubuntu Edge | 08:56 |
| SK_work | :) | 08:56 |
| SK_work | TemeV: not that obvious | 08:56 |
| SK_work | the fenzy seems to have lowered | 08:56 |
| Armadillo | it was 24M? | 08:56 |
| SK_work | maybe 2k more ? | 08:56 |
| SK_work | Armadillo: iirc hes | 08:56 |
| SK_work | yes | 08:56 |
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| Armadillo | ok... | 08:56 |
| mornfall | who knows how many phones they have in a stockpile still :P | 08:57 |
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| TemeV | SK_work: I mean sell when the tablet is in shops | 08:57 |
| SK_work | I have read a lot of articles drawing comparison between Jolla's indiegogo and Ubuntu's one | 08:57 |
| SK_work | quoting the 24M | 08:57 |
| TemeV | not via indiegogo | 08:57 |
| meklu | ha, it never materialized | 08:57 |
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| mornfall | TemeV: well, it's not like they are selling *all* of the manufacture on indiegogo | 08:57 |
| mornfall | TemeV: so yeah, they may be ordering 20k for all we know | 08:57 |
| meklu | the ubuntu mobile UX also looked really clunky | 08:57 |
| TemeV | Yes, What I mean, is why wouldn't they sell in indiegogo as much as they can | 08:58 |
| meklu | this whole convergence nonsense is utter nonsense | 08:58 |
| meklu | different devices with different inputs have different UIs | 08:58 |
| mornfall | TemeV: yeah, sounds silly, so they'll probably keep bumping the perks until it hits the retail price | 08:58 |
| mornfall | they are probably not selling at a loss on indiegogo either | 08:59 |
| entil | the reason no to sell everything on igg is to not see where the market caps | 08:59 |
| _inte_ | they would be at 234$ if they go for 10000 through indigogo and keep the 5$/1000 devices steps | 08:59 |
| _inte_ | indie | 08:59 |
| mornfall | (I'd imagine the $189 is the break-even price) | 08:59 |
| entil | doubt anyone really knows how many phones jolla is selling, so there is some income for sure, but about a million dollars isn't that much money | 09:00 |
| TemeV | mornfall: I'd guess so too | 09:00 |
| mornfall | entil: well, as far as I can tell, Jolla still lives mostly off VC | 09:00 |
| entil | surely a mil doesn't hurt anyone | 09:01 |
| mornfall | entil: but it all really depends on sales outside Europe | 09:01 |
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| entil | but if you average a salary at $3000 (for the company, which isn't very much irl) and imagine jolla employing 100 people (probably the ballpark), a million dollars isn't going to last long, and that means having zero left after the tablets ship | 09:02 |
| entil | so it's not that different from selling at a loss because it's close to credit | 09:02 |
| entil | but they sell phones and have VC money, and having a million dollars from a marketing campaign isn't bad | 09:03 |
| mornfall | entil: more than 100 (but less than 2), can't recall the exact number | 09:03 |
| mornfall | it was in the slush presentation | 09:03 |
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| entil | it's not like we'd know the salary levels of jolla employees, or the amount of contractors they use, so it's all a guessing game | 09:04 |
| SK_work | I'm a bit afraid of Jolla Tablet's retail price | 09:05 |
| meklu | 130? | 09:05 |
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| SK_work | compared to N1 it is practically the same ... | 09:05 |
| SK_work | 130 | 09:06 |
| entil | I didn't bother too much with the N1 | 09:06 |
| TemeV | SK_work: well jolla phone was not competetive with the price either | 09:06 |
| entil | how are they different? how different in price? | 09:06 |
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| TemeV | If you want the best _hard_ware, don't buy Jolla | 09:07 |
| SK_work | TemeV: at least they could align on the market this time | 09:07 |
| SK_work | to sell a bit more | 09:07 |
| SK_work | TemeV: the phone is another topic: they had quite some issues | 09:07 |
| SK_work | with their chip manufacturers stopping their buisness | 09:08 |
| entil | they did amazing work getting the phone out and how well the OS works speaks for itself | 09:08 |
| TemeV | Yeah, I know. But still the phone was expensive if you just look at the hardware | 09:08 |
| TemeV | And I guess the tablet will be also | 09:09 |
| TemeV | But that is just the volume talking | 09:09 |
| entil | it will be slightly, just dug up the comparison chart | 09:09 |
| entil | the retail price should be less than the N1 for sure | 09:09 |
| TemeV | I'd guess it will be the same | 09:09 |
| entil | but no idea if they can pull it off, and in the end people should learn that specs don't matter | 09:09 |
| entil | because surely sailfish will run better than android | 09:09 |
| SK_work | entil: no, the retail price is 249 ? | 09:10 |
| artemma | android will have some apps though | 09:10 |
| SK_work | so same compared to N1 | 09:10 |
| SK_work | and this is without VAT | 09:10 |
| mornfall | well, iPad Mini 3 is pretty expensive and only has 1G of RAM | 09:10 |
| mornfall | how is that? :) | 09:10 |
| entil | SK_work: I meant it in the sense that it should be less to match peoples' expectations of price vs specs (because people don't know better) | 09:10 |
| SK_work | mornfall: however iOS works really really well | 09:10 |
| SK_work | don't know how | 09:10 |
| SK_work | Qt is already quite ok | 09:10 |
| mornfall | that's the amount Jolla the phone has and it's a tablet | 09:10 |
| entil | mornfall: a large portion of the money goes to honor the memory of the late steve jobs and his empire | 09:11 |
| SK_work | (well, the rendering in main thread don't help making the UI butter smooth sadly) | 09:11 |
| entil | mornfall: it's like scientology, but for hipsters | 09:11 |
| mornfall | entil: that's not the point... it sells like hot cookies | 09:11 |
| entil | [11:11] < entil> mornfall: it's like scientology, but for hipsters | 09:11 |
| entil | ;) | 09:11 |
| SK_work | entil: come on ... | 09:11 |
| entil | :< | 09:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | What, if any warranty is available on the tablets? | 09:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Squaretrade wouldn't cover the prior jolla phone, so this is kinda important to me. | 09:12 |
| mornfall | what's squaretrade? | 09:12 |
| mornfall | phones were sold from within the EU so they come with the mandatory 2y end-user warranty | 09:13 |
| mornfall | tablets, they'll ship out of Asia so a bit uncertain | 09:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | mornfall: squaretrade is a third party warranty provider | 09:13 |
| mornfall | ah, well | 09:13 |
| mornfall | insurance, really? | 09:14 |
| SpeedEvil | tyes | 09:14 |
| SpeedEvil | accidental damage cover | 09:14 |
| mornfall | I think they may be going for a 1y warranty on the tablet, considering that they could... | 09:14 |
| mornfall | but only for manufacturing defects, as is customary | 09:15 |
| mornfall | jolla doesn't really have staff to deal with insurance and claims I suspect | 09:15 |
| SpeedEvil | and yes - iquite understand why accidental damage is not possible. | 09:15 |
| SpeedEvil | but some projects have done ridiculous things like 10 day warranty | 09:16 |
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| mornfall | nah, there's already a 2 week period for returns without stating a reason | 09:16 |
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| mornfall | so it's definitely not going to be that ridiculous | 09:18 |
| SpeedEvil | for vendors in the EU - i haven't seen any mention of any issue on the jolla or indiegogo site | 09:19 |
| _inte_ | I guess the tablet is somewhat different to the phone | 09:19 |
| _inte_ | there are several touch distros available | 09:20 |
| _inte_ | like ubuntu, plasma active | 09:20 |
| _inte_ | but, no hardware | 09:20 |
| _inte_ | or at least, no competitive hardware | 09:20 |
| _inte_ | now, with the Jolla tablet, this changes | 09:20 |
| _inte_ | Jolla will probably also attract Linux poweruser who want to run plasma active or ubuntu and only need hardware | 09:21 |
| mornfall | _inte_: with the phone, there really aren't tools that'd make it reasonably safe to change the firmware; I'm not sure I'd expect there to be with the tablet | 09:21 |
| pp_ | actually jolla phone is 1y warranty (and 2y EU mandatory thing which is not exactly a warranty) | 09:21 |
| mornfall | _inte_: so from that perspective, it's not much different from flashing ubuntu or whatever on any intel-based android | 09:21 |
| AL13N_work | does anyone still have that link of the jolla designer (blog) about the ui? | 09:22 |
| _inte_ | mornfall: yes, but for the phone you get cheaper phones with better hardware and open bootloader | 09:22 |
| meklu | the N1 might be attractive as well in such a case :P | 09:22 |
| mornfall | pp_: huh? :) | 09:22 |
| _inte_ | dont know any tablets | 09:22 |
| meklu | since that supposedly has an open bootloader | 09:22 |
| _inte_ | meklu: depends on the bootloader | 09:22 |
| meklu | but the driver situation there might be a bit more complicated | 09:22 |
| _inte_ | :) yes | 09:22 |
| artemma | In light of SailfishOS2.0 and Tablet, are there any news on how Jolla is to attract app developers? Or is it irrelevant for some reason (e.g. maybe Android is the Jolla's mass market app story and that's it)? | 09:22 |
| meklu | _inte_: a nokia product manager told some cyanogenmod employee to get CM working on it ;) | 09:22 |
| pp_ | see http://jolla.com/warranty-policy/ | 09:23 |
| _inte_ | but cm is not gnulinux, its still android | 09:23 |
| meklu | yup | 09:23 |
| meklu | libhybris is open though | 09:23 |
| meklu | *shrug* | 09:23 |
| tbr | but isn't the N1 going on sale only in .cn? | 09:23 |
| SpeedEvil | pp_: thanks | 09:23 |
| SpeedEvil | somehwo i missed that | 09:23 |
| mornfall | I'm starting to wonder whether the whole Lumia affair was a ploy to derail MS :P | 09:23 |
| _inte_ | for the jolla tablet, you could simply keep using sailfishos as base and install different environment, since it is already gnulinux | 09:24 |
| mornfall | next thing we see is a new nokia smartphone | 09:24 |
| mornfall | :P | 09:24 |
| _inte_ | tbr: i also read that | 09:24 |
| meklu | well, they said "and selected European contries", tbr | 09:24 |
| meklu | -ed | 09:24 |
| tbr | really? | 09:24 |
| meklu | yes | 09:24 |
| meklu | in the live stream | 09:24 |
| meklu | at slush | 09:24 |
| tbr | that will be interesting to see, given how similar it looks to the fruitware | 09:24 |
| meklu | it's not the US, so there's that | 09:24 |
| tbr | AAPL likes to enforce protected design in .eu violently | 09:25 |
| _inte_ | mornfall: I only wonder if nokia maybe only releases the android tablet because they are mad at ms and want to make a clear statement against windows:) | 09:25 |
| AL13N_work | anyone? | 09:25 |
| daitheflu | AL13N_work: http://jaakkoroppola.blogspot.fi/ | 09:25 |
| _inte_ | tbr: that will be fun when we get ttip | 09:25 |
| mornfall | pp_: how is EU-mandated warranty not a warranty? | 09:25 |
| meklu | AL13N_work: http://jaakkoroppola.blogspot.com/2014/10/multi-touch-and-bigger-screens.html | 09:25 |
| tbr | mornfall: it has burden of proof reversal after 6 months | 09:26 |
| pp_ | what was the english word, error liability or whatnot | 09:26 |
| tbr | mornfall: that makes it a lot harder for the consumer if the company choses to be a dick about it and says "prove it was defective before you bought it" | 09:26 |
| pp_ | (and proof reversal is the essential difference, yes) | 09:26 |
| Bysmyyr_ | and is eu"warranty" used now because they sell them from hongkong | 09:26 |
| SpeedEvil | i do wish there was a spares shop | 09:27 |
| mornfall | tbr: yes, but if a company turns out to be a dick about it, they'll lose customers over it | 09:27 |
| mornfall | tbr: it's a matter of expectations really | 09:27 |
| pp_ | you run into the difference very easily when dealing with apple :D | 09:27 |
| tbr | mornfall: yes, but that's not part of the warranty regulation. do you see my point? | 09:28 |
| mornfall | tbr: not being a dick is hardly ever part of a regulation | 09:28 |
| tbr | yeah apple are famously being hard to deal with in warranty cases. | 09:28 |
| AL13N_work | tnx | 09:28 |
| tbr | mornfall: now but that was the question "what's eu warranty" | 09:28 |
| tbr | not "what's eu warranty and being a dick about it" | 09:29 |
| AL13N_work | i had difficulty finding it, i kept going on news reports on the jolla tablet | 09:29 |
| mornfall | tbr: yes, and your answer is that if the company are dicks they can get out of claims more easily :-) | 09:29 |
| tbr | _IF_ | 09:29 |
| * tbr shrugs | 09:29 | |
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| mornfall | tbr: but it doesn't mean they are any less obliged to fix a broken product | 09:29 |
| mornfall | tbr: and you'd win a case if you went to a court with it | 09:30 |
| mornfall | tbr: but nobody will, because too much trouble | 09:30 |
| mornfall | so yes, in the end it's all about not being dicks | 09:30 |
| mornfall | same thing really happens in the first 6 months anyway | 09:30 |
| mornfall | if the company says you broke it, are you going to litigate? | 09:30 |
| pp_ | heh: http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ | 09:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ' Thanks, Roger! You raised the campaign total to: $905,467! ] | 09:31 |
| pp_ | trying to utilize that for my macbook air battery after 1 year was call seller "yea it might go under it, you could mail it to us and there's a 2 week queue in sorting out claims" | 09:32 |
| * SpeedEvil hopes he can get some third party warranty place to cover it this time | 09:32 | |
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| mornfall | pp_: batteries are “special” also | 09:32 |
| AL13N_work | special? | 09:32 |
| mornfall | AL13N_work: they are consumables, sort of | 09:33 |
| pp_ | yep, mine started failing way before it should have (400 cycles when it should be 1000ish) | 09:33 |
| mornfall | so the law makes exceptions for that | 09:33 |
| mornfall | but right, what pp_ says | 09:33 |
| AL13N_work | :-( | 09:33 |
| mornfall | if it fails to work for the declared lifetime then it's still a warranty case | 09:33 |
| mornfall | basically consumables (light bulbs, eg) have both a warranty and a lifetime | 09:33 |
| mornfall | if they fail before the lifetime is out (say, 2000 hours of operation), you can claim a replacement | 09:34 |
| mornfall | batteries, likewise | 09:34 |
| mornfall | (lifetime measured in cycles plus capacity drop) | 09:34 |
| mornfall | but besides that I think batteries only have a 1 year warranty, so you can only claim either within a year or until you exceed the lifetime of it | 09:35 |
| mornfall | well, complicated | 09:35 |
| mornfall | it's pertinent to LED bulbs and the like, which are fairly costly and have declared lifetimes of 10k hours | 09:35 |
| mornfall | if the box says 10k hours and it dies after 2k within 2 years, you can return it and demand it to be fixed/replaced | 09:36 |
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| mornfall | oh, and the retailer always has 4 weeks to sort out your claim, so they like to be dicks about *that* at least | 09:36 |
| mornfall | re apple and a 2 week queue | 09:37 |
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| mornfall | basically, I don't know why people in Europe even buy Apple | 09:37 |
| mornfall | in the US presumably you can't really get a much better deal anyway, and the stuff is much cheaper over there too | 09:38 |
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| pp_ | mornfall: directly from apple or someone with a service point and it becomes a bit easier | 09:40 |
| suosaaski | mornfall: well, the price of apple is not that much different to others so why not? | 09:40 |
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| pavimob | logged in via irc app of jolla | 09:40 |
| pp_ | I utilized a -10% off deal from stockmann :-) | 09:41 |
| pavimob | its so convenient | 09:41 |
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| Nicd- | mornfall: maybe people buy apple because they like the devices and the UX? that's not a mindblowing thought | 09:42 |
| pavimob | apple users should be ignored they belong to a different religion | 09:43 |
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| mornfall | Nicd-: no idea, really... I'm not sure it's *that* compelling | 09:43 |
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| Nicd- | pavimob: please don't underestimate people like that | 09:44 |
| mornfall | a) iPhone is *very* expensive and b) people that are otherwise not exactly rich buy them in vast quantities | 09:44 |
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| suosaaski | mornfall: they usually just work. And the app store is, well... big enough. | 09:44 |
| mornfall | (it's not expensive compared to flagship android maybe, but a mid-range device is less than half the price) | 09:45 |
| suosaaski | mornfall: but iphone is not more expensive than say a Galaxy Note 4 or similar flagships? | 09:45 |
| Nicd- | mornfall: that's the thing, iPhones are flagship devices | 09:46 |
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| Nicd- | not mediocre midrange android devices | 09:46 |
| suosaaski | pavimob: I do have a couple of apple products, and have had a lot more of them, and I would not say I belong to a different religion :) | 09:46 |
| mornfall | suosaaski: yeah, but if it's a 2 months of full pay for iPhone or latest Galaxy gadget... how people *do* that? :) | 09:46 |
| pavimob | Nicd what i mean is that the apple users are quite religious towards apple devices . they use them mostly in multiple devices completely making the ecosystem part of their life | 09:46 |
| suosaaski | mornfall: There are non-flagship iphones, too, that are less expensive. | 09:47 |
| mornfall | suosaaski: yes; which is why I fail to understand why everyone gets an iPhone anyway | 09:47 |
| Nicd- | mornfall: maybe they don't want to settle for a mediocre device | 09:47 |
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| pavimob | convincing the apple users to use native sailfish apps is just too much of a work | 09:47 |
| suosaaski | mornfall: first you wonder about the price, then when I say there are cheaper models too, then you wonder why they buy them anyway? :) | 09:48 |
| Nicd- | pavimob: a very good reason for that is that apple stuff works really well with other apple stuff. it's not about religion | 09:48 |
| mornfall | suosaaski: oh, I missed the 'i' | 09:48 |
| mornfall | suosaaski: I can't see iphone with a non-capital p sorry :) | 09:49 |
| suosaaski | you can buy for example an iphone 5C instead of the iPhone 6 Plus 128GB model :) | 09:49 |
| Nicd- | pavimob: convincing iPhone users to use Sailfish is too much work because Sailfish is currently a buggy OS that runs on a very mediocre device and does not have any of the apps people want | 09:49 |
| mornfall | I don't think I even saw a 5C in the wild... | 09:49 |
| suosaaski | Well, there was also 4S and 4 that were quitepopular and inexpensive before they were sold out | 09:49 |
| pavimob | nicd thats a rekigious answer . sailfish is perfect for me | 09:50 |
| suosaaski | Also, the resale value of an iphone seems to be higher than a similar android or windows phone device, so that helps in upgrading to a new model. | 09:50 |
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| Nicd- | pavimob: that's not a religious answer, that's a realistic answer. I'm a happy Jolla user but I realize its downfalls and why it is not appropriate for the general usre | 09:50 |
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| mornfall | suosaaski: well, iPhone 4 16G today is €310 here | 09:51 |
| tadzik | it has nothing to do with religious, it's a pragmatic way of looking at things | 09:51 |
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| suosaaski | mornfall: really? cos iphone 4 is EOL and the remaining stock is 149e here... | 09:51 |
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| mornfall | suosaaski: ok, well, that may explain our misunderstanding :D | 09:51 |
| suosaaski | I don't quite get how you can even get a 16GB iphone 4 anymore? :) | 09:52 |
| mornfall | also, many people don't make more than €500 a month | 09:52 |
| mornfall | here | 09:52 |
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| pavimob | Nicd-: realism based on your experience with apple devices . i am not basing my judgement on sailfish based on any apple experience | 09:52 |
| mornfall | suosaaski: dunno, you can... not from apple obviously, but iPhone 6 is €650 | 09:52 |
| suosaaski | You probably don't understand finnish, but you can see the price: http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/52274/fcqkc/Apple-iPhone-4-8-Gt-lukitsematon-Wave-suojakalvo-musta | 09:53 |
| mornfall | suosaaski: so I guess you can sell a 4 for less than half that amount | 09:53 |
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| suosaaski | then of course there is the fact that you can get a vast amount of cases and stuff for an iphone, if you're into that sort of thing. | 09:53 |
| Nicd- | pavimob: really, there's no whatsapp, a half-working facebook app, no banking apps, a bad browser, no instagram, no google apps, no good games, no official apps for pretty much anything. and don't tell me about openrepos, regular users aren't going to touch that. my wife thinks sailfish looks cool but there's nothing you can do with it. in addition to that the OS is still buggy in a lot of places, like | 09:55 |
| Nicd- | leaking memory so that it's unusable after 20-30 days | 09:55 |
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| Nicd- | pavimob: I don't like using iOS devices but I can totally see why others do | 09:55 |
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| tadzik | it's not an experience with apple devices, that's experience with anything else | 09:56 |
| mornfall | (also, I follow Gary Bernhardt on twitter so I basically only hear how Apple stuff is horribly broken :D) | 09:56 |
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| tadzik | there are ways where I feel that sailfish shines and rocks pretty much everything else, but it also sucks in many many places | 09:57 |
| Nicd- | ^ | 09:57 |
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| suosaaski | Although this is about Windows Phone and not Sailfish, you might find this an interesting read especially as written by a Windows-site and many stuff are also stuff that fits Sailfish, too, not just WP: | 09:58 |
| suosaaski | http://winsupersite.com/mobile/10-iphone-6ios-8-features-id-see-windows-phone | 09:58 |
| pavimob | Nicd- you are talking about cloud services in general which makes applications for famous platforms . just imagine this as starting days of linux where no commercial apps were available now you could pretty much do anything on Linux . so wait for sailfish glory days | 09:58 |
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| Nicd- | pavimob: I know and I'm hopeful that Sailfish will grow and shine. but I'm talking about the current situation. it's nowhere near that | 10:00 |
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| pavimob | Nicd-: the tablet should bring focus to the ecosystem | 10:01 |
| mornfall | suosaaski: hmm, isn't there a WP10 now? | 10:01 |
| mornfall | (maybe not, I'm not really up to date) | 10:01 |
| suosaaski | it's not out yet | 10:01 |
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| Nicd- | pavimob: I hope so, but what Sailfish needs is official apps from the major players. without that it won't sell. and there's a bit of an chicken and egg problem there as it won't sell without apps but it won't get apps without selling | 10:02 |
| mornfall | actually, sailfish doesn't have landscape homescreen either :s | 10:02 |
| suosaaski | But you should read that. It's interesting and perhaps reminds us what the average user wants instead of being able to fix something via ssh :) | 10:02 |
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| suosaaski | Personally, I'd like to have 1, 2, 3... well, all of them. | 10:03 |
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| mornfall | suosaaski: 1? wouldn't it be convenient to first have some paid content at all? :P | 10:05 |
| pavimob | Nicd-: it all depends on target audience thats where my religion argument comes in . if avg joe is subscribed to the religion of cloud services jolla is nit targetted appropriately for that religion | 10:05 |
| suosaaski | mornfall: well, you can add that to Sailfish, too, then :) | 10:05 |
| meklu | paid applications in the jolla store might incentivize developers to take notice more broadly :P | 10:06 |
| meklu | then again, you'd probably see quite a few shit applications hop on board from the android side | 10:06 |
| Nicd- | pavimob: maybe you should respect the average user a bit more than thinking they're brainwashed into some religion... | 10:06 |
| meklu | got dang mobile shovelware | 10:06 |
| ruskie | meklu, I would expect a bit more curation | 10:07 |
| tadzik | pavimob: please stop putting religion everywhere where you don't disagree | 10:07 |
| tadzik | erm, don't agree | 10:07 |
| Nicd- | pavimob: for the average user it's not about religion, it's about what's practical and what works | 10:07 |
| meklu | ruskie: I would certainly hope so. looking at google and ms though, they have severely screwed up | 10:07 |
| mornfall | ruskie: have you *seen* the android apps in jolla store *now*? | 10:11 |
| meklu | one would imagine that paid applications would have stricter standards | 10:11 |
| mornfall | I wonder if there's one thing that'd make it into Apple store... | 10:11 |
| pavimob | tadzik: by religion i mean ones belief system. a small xmpp based chat servic cane up with a name and convenient way to use contact list for addressing . niw everone has to use it else their phone is stupid or dumb . if thats the belief people have i would kabel it as religion , maybe you have a better bame for it . | 10:12 |
| mornfall | meklu: because free junk is awesome, yeah | 10:12 |
| meklu | not saying I love the current situation :P | 10:12 |
| suosaaski | Paid applications make it worth it for the developers to make the apps. | 10:13 |
| meklu | there are *definitely* things that could be booted from the store | 10:13 |
| mornfall | Jolla would do better to kick that junk out soon... | 10:13 |
| suosaaski | Or ads | 10:13 |
| meklu | ads... hurgh | 10:13 |
| mornfall | suosaaski: not if your expected install base is 20 people though... | 10:13 |
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| Nicd- | pavimob: it's still not religion, whatsapp is *practical* and it has a critical mass of users | 10:13 |
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| Nicd- | above all the UX is good | 10:14 |
| suosaaski | mornfall: and the expected install base is 20 people because there are no apps so less people want it. | 10:14 |
| meklu | a good ol' catch-22 | 10:14 |
| Nicd- | yeah, a lot of the apps on the store are useless crap | 10:15 |
| pavimob | Nicd-: ok the better word is that everyone is stuck up in the network effect of whatsapp or fb | 10:15 |
| mornfall | well, it's pretty much random what catches up and what doesn't | 10:16 |
| mornfall | it's not like there was a big obvious gaping hole before whatsapp | 10:16 |
| suosaaski | Also, today, people want all sorts of health apps, integration with their health bands and whatnot. | 10:16 |
| mornfall | afterall, it doesn't offer much that facebook wouldn't | 10:16 |
| Nicd- | pavimob: and there isn't really anything wrong or sinister with that. people use what they like. the big problem in linux circles is that people are condescending towards regular users thinking they have a better solution when in fact their solution is worse when you think of the UX | 10:16 |
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| pavimob | Nicd-: and apple is the best person with UX ? | 10:17 |
| meklu | the average user doesn't care about the philosophical implications of what they use | 10:17 |
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| meklu | they want something that's consistent and 'easy enough' | 10:18 |
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| Nicd- | pavimob: apple is very good with regards to UX. whatsapp has very good UX too in addition to the size of the userbase | 10:18 |
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| ruskie | btw... what's that game that's being shown on the tablet??? kinda seems like there's some push to showcase it a bit more? | 10:19 |
| Nicd- | it's stupid to think iphones or samsung galaxys are the most sold phones just because people "are sheep" | 10:19 |
| ruskie | hehe | 10:19 |
| Nicd- | ruskie: probably some android game | 10:19 |
| ruskie | as for UX my own experiences with iphone/ipad I didn't much care for the UX | 10:19 |
| meklu | ruskie: I think it's Clash of Clans | 10:20 |
| Acce | Nicd-: and we're hip and cool cos we bought a Jolla! :D | 10:20 |
| meklu | Acce: we're eevil nurrrds because we bought Jollas D: | 10:20 |
| ruskie | lol | 10:20 |
| tadzik | exactly. I only bought one because I'm a tech hipster | 10:20 |
| Nicd- | Acce: we're geeks hoping for a better future :P | 10:20 |
| suosaaski | ruskie: UX or UI? :) | 10:20 |
| ruskie | UX | 10:20 |
| ruskie | it just seems more of the same that is android(doesn't matter who came up with it) both for me seem the same | 10:21 |
| Nicd- | after using Sailfish, everything feels the same to be honest | 10:22 |
| Nicd- | that's why I'm hoping Jolla will succeed | 10:22 |
| suosaaski | since the UX on an ipad is quite nice. You open an app, it opens like a snap. And usually just works. You want the content on tv? Airplay just works. Now, with iOS 8, you want to continue writing that email on an other device? Continuitu should work. Now you're on your laptop and the phone rings while the phone is out of reach? You answer via laptop, and so on... | 10:22 |
| ruskie | suosaaski, seee it works if you are in an apple ecosystem completely | 10:23 |
| Acce | if I just had time.. I would make start on the "jolla pc suite" and make it a server on jolla, then you'd just keep a web page open on your laptop and control the phone from there | 10:23 |
| Acce | you probably could even answer calls through a web interface | 10:24 |
| pavimob | i think before sailfish or even n900 maemo there was a surge if development investment put up by both google and apple. the had all the drivers for hardware ,agreeements etc as added advantage and then brought the network effect thanjs to inhouse ir external cloud services . | 10:24 |
| ruskie | suosaaski, I was mostly limited to the device itself and there it's just... same old | 10:24 |
| Acce | I just don't know much about the stuff for html5 :/ | 10:24 |
| suosaaski | I hope that there is sort of "continuity" between jolla tablet and a phone, just to make it worth it to get a jolla tablet instead of android/ios. As especially a tablet is usually about consuming content, and for android and ios, there is a ton of content... | 10:24 |
| meklu | Acce: a server on the phone would make little sense | 10:24 |
| tbr | Acce: simple bridging into dbus would do | 10:24 |
| Acce | meklu: not really | 10:24 |
| lainwir3d | there is too much content | 10:25 |
| pavimob | also app development wuthout bothering about os brought many devels into the plstform | 10:25 |
| meklu | I'd wager that an actual server somewhere else™ with the Jolla connecting to that would work better | 10:25 |
| lainwir3d | looking for an app ? yeah there is hundreds that's supposed to do what you want | 10:25 |
| meklu | and having the server relay web <-> jolla | 10:25 |
| lainwir3d | but when you try them, 75% don't work | 10:25 |
| Acce | meklu: why would that work better? | 10:25 |
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| Acce | it's not like there will be 1 million users on your phone | 10:25 |
| meklu | Acce: NATs, firewalls, errything | 10:25 |
| lainwir3d | that's android atm | 10:25 |
| suosaaski | ruskie: yes, but it is the whole experience that matters. Also, I must add, that me and my wife both had iphones, ipads and we have an appletv. After getting rid of iphones, neither of us actually miss our iphones. I also got rid of my ipad. | 10:25 |
| Acce | But inside your home network, it would make sense | 10:26 |
| meklu | yeah | 10:26 |
| meklu | that could work | 10:26 |
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| ruskie | suosaaski, hehe you see for me it's the individual experience that matters the most anything above that is just candy | 10:26 |
| Acce | of course, it might be useful to relay it to the web, in which case you could answer calls even if you forgot phone home | 10:26 |
| meklu | but then the home network thing might seem like an arbitrary limitation :P | 10:26 |
| Acce | but, oh the security issues.. | 10:26 |
| suosaaski | The thing is, what I want to work between my devices is if I take a pic with my phone, I want to see it on all my devices. And documents and stuff. And I just select a cloud service that suits my needs, price range and works across all platforms I use. | 10:27 |
| Acce | it would be safer if it was home network by default | 10:27 |
| meklu | roll up your sleeves and do some public key cryptography then ;) | 10:27 |
| Acce | advanced users could relay it where-ever they would want | 10:27 |
| ruskie | suosaaski, see I don't want the cloud involved at all | 10:27 |
| suosaaski | Which, right now, is using MS cloud and especially Onedrive. | 10:27 |
| Acce | tbr: yeah, on the phone side it is easy I think, but I'm not sure how listening to microphone works in html5.. it's also easy? | 10:28 |
| ruskie | suosaaski, for me the future is in a personal compute/storage cloud area where you basically sit down behind a screen and kb and they link to you and you start working... or you pull out another device and you work on that with access to all the stuff you really need with you | 10:28 |
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| ruskie | basically a physical device you have on you that has that but that also distributes that to your other devices thus doing redundancy/syncing etc... | 10:28 |
| tbr | Acce: oh, you want to bridge call audio? bit more complicated | 10:29 |
| suosaaski | with no integration across devices, the UX is not as good as it could be. | 10:29 |
| suosaaski | it's limited. | 10:29 |
| ruskie | Acce, http://html5-examples.craic.com/microphone_input_with_spectrogram.html | 10:29 |
| tbr | Acce: you'd need to go for something like WebRTC to have usable results | 10:29 |
| meklu | Acce: I've seen some 'advanced user' setups... it'd be nicer to have something actually not insane going on | 10:29 |
| Acce | meklu: :D | 10:30 |
| Acce | ruskie: thanks! | 10:30 |
| Acce | tbr: hmm.. not familiar with webRTC.. gotta check it out too | 10:31 |
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| meklu | it basically allows actual a/v communication implementations over the web | 10:31 |
| Acce | without some special thingy like flash? | 10:31 |
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| tbr | correct | 10:33 |
| Acce | nice | 10:33 |
| Acce | starting with text messages might be simpler then | 10:33 |
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| suosaaski | A final note on UX. It starts when you first receive the product package. Before ever seeing the device. And it continues when you open the package, and see the device, keep it in your hand. Before you turn it on. And that is also what Apple seems to be particularly good at. | 10:39 |
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| kimmoli | http://www.techtimetea.com/jolla-tablet-wait-tablet-android-apple/ "Jolla, a 120 odd people company..." | 10:42 |
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| meklu | oh god the scrolling is horrible on that site | 10:45 |
| leinir | wow yeah... | 10:45 |
| meklu | you should never mess with people's scrolling | 10:45 |
| Kabouik | Is there any way to set Webcat as the default browser for links opened in sms or emails, and so on? | 10:46 |
| leinir | page up/down scrolling the viewport more than there's available space, so page-down, arrow-up, arrow-up | 10:46 |
| leinir | seriously, stop that | 10:46 |
| leinir | "Oh, but it scrolls all smooth and shiny!" ... | 10:46 |
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| meklu | browsers already have smooth scrolling, damn it | 10:46 |
| meklu | even chrome had a flag for it somewhere | 10:47 |
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| Acce | Kabouik: yes, but I don't remember the way | 10:47 |
| Kabouik | :< | 10:47 |
| Acce | nothing in TJC? | 10:48 |
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| suosaaski | kimmoli: iPad mini 3 seems to have ROM on the list at 16GB, which is a bit misleading as there are more options. | 10:48 |
| Kabouik | https://together.jolla.com/question/1836/set-default-browser/ maybe this, I've not read it yet | 10:48 |
| kimmoli | imho ROM is misleading here | 10:49 |
| meklu | suosaaski: I don't think anyone needs that much read-only memory | 10:49 |
| meklu | ;) | 10:49 |
| suosaaski | kimmoli: that, too :) | 10:49 |
| kimmoli | oh times of UV-EPROMs | 10:50 |
| suosaaski | Although many places list that as ROM, where it should be storage etc. | 10:50 |
| kimmoli | generally flash | 10:50 |
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| kimmoli | but i think it would be confused with camera flash.. oo i have 32GB 'flash' ... sounds like neuralyzer | 10:51 |
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| meklu | laypeople seem to conflate memory and storage really often | 10:52 |
| Armadillo | hm the Z3560 has wireless display support :) | 10:52 |
| suosaaski | Anyway, that is a bit misleading. Should be "From 16GB" just like the price. | 10:52 |
| suosaaski | Armadillo: yes, hope that miracast/widi support for sailfish gets there | 10:53 |
| Armadillo | yes, could be an interesting feature | 10:53 |
| kimmoli | all mobile device advertisements should also have "suggested serving" | 10:54 |
| suosaaski | Armadillo: I've used it on my thinkpad 8, kinda nice feature | 10:55 |
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| suosaaski | Well, at the time I had my thinkpad 8, sold it during summer as there seemed to be no custom android or sailfish ports for it... | 10:55 |
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| Armadillo | don't have any experience with wiresless display, just following some news about it | 10:56 |
| Kabouik | The procedure on TJC kind of works for Webcat Acce, but not completely: clicking on a link will open Webcat, but it won't open the URL. | 10:56 |
| Kabouik | It seems to be due to Webcat not supporting URL arguments, I guess | 10:57 |
| suosaaski | Armadillo: It is ok, but also at least on windows 8.1 it would have needed some extra work, so it could work like airplay on ipad. | 10:57 |
| Armadillo | suosaaski does it need any pairing or something like that? | 10:57 |
| suosaaski | Yes, you need to "pair" it. | 10:57 |
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| Armadillo | ok | 10:57 |
| Armadillo | and the stream is transported via a separate transmitter or does it use wifi? | 10:58 |
| Armadillo | I should read some wiki pages about it^^ | 10:58 |
| suosaaski | airplay is nice, as it can display video on tv while doing something else on the tablet. That is a bit difficult on windows, as if one would use "extended display", there is no way to control the screen on tv. | 11:00 |
| suosaaski | wifi, but it is separate in a way that wifi still works even though connected to receiver. | 11:00 |
| suosaaski | It is basically hdmi via wlan. If one would try to think about it in as simple as possible way :) | 11:01 |
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| Syu0 | Kabouik: Apps seem to pass args differently, cause when I call webcat via shell it opens passed URLs | 11:04 |
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| AL13N_work | Tofe: doesn't look like you're gonna win your bet... | 11:05 |
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| suosaaski | But what would be really cool would be airplay or chromecast support of sailfish. And not yet another way to stream content to tv... (miracast, although many tvs have it, seems to not be taking of...) | 11:06 |
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| ruskie | suosaaski, there's also wi-di hehe | 11:12 |
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| suosaaski | yes. widi. | 11:12 |
| suosaaski | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracast | 11:12 |
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| ruskie | frankly as this is intel based I would expect wi-di in there | 11:17 |
| AL13N_work | wrt to http://lwn.net/Articles/606100/ , it would be nice if there was a similar "interview" with someone from jolla side, that sort of shows the other side... | 11:17 |
| ruskie | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiDi | 11:18 |
| ruskie | that's not miracast | 11:18 |
| ruskie | it just seems to be linked in some way to it | 11:18 |
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| just4info__ | jolla raised nearly 1m usd via indiegogo so far! | 11:30 |
| SK_work | nearly ? | 11:31 |
| SK_work | not 1M yet so | 11:31 |
| just4info__ | looking on the short time till now it shouldn't take too long to pass it | 11:32 |
| suosaaski | It has slowed down quite a bit | 11:34 |
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| just4info__ | well i'm pretty amazed that they managed to raise that much, i mean after all it's a tablet.. | 11:35 |
| suosaaski | on the other hand, it has made a couple of dozens of thousands of dollars since checking it this morning... | 11:35 |
| suosaaski | that's a lot of ofs... | 11:36 |
| suosaaski | just4info__: well, tablets are "hot" :) | 11:36 |
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| just4info__ | suosaaski, well, if they'd support an active digitizer it would be something different, but like it is....meh | 11:37 |
| Nicd- | another jolla tablet video from slush, doesn't show anything that we haven't seen yet though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RXwbKWbnXI | 11:38 |
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| suosaaski | why would digitizer make it different? There are a bunch of devices with that, but none with Sailfish... and also that would raise the price | 11:38 |
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| just4info__ | suosaaski, digitizers are awesome, my current device made paper pretty much obsolete | 11:41 |
| just4info__ | now, if the tablet of jolla would support one (maybe even built in) I'd definitly consider getting one | 11:42 |
| entil | suosaaski: as much as that sounds like, if they wanted to sponsor the whole development with igg, a conservative estimate is they'd have to double the income | 11:42 |
| AL13N_work | doesn't the tablet support usb devices? | 11:42 |
| AL13N_work | in usb input device would probably work, right? | 11:42 |
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| just4info__ | AL13N_work, why would i drag a wacoom pad with me, just to connect it to the "portable" tablet? these times are over | 11:43 |
| SK_work | Nicd-: nice fade effect when minimizing | 11:43 |
| SK_work | that's what I want (with this swipe feedback patch is deprecated) | 11:44 |
| dr_gogeta86 | hurray | 11:44 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | my gf says is a giant jolla | 11:44 |
| suosaaski | entil: does not sound like much to me... but enough to get the first couple of thousand out I guess. | 11:44 |
| entil | suosaaski: jolla is staffed by miracle workers | 11:44 |
| suosaaski | I don't see your point, but I also don't disagree :) | 11:45 |
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| entil | that they'll get the tablet out no matter what | 11:46 |
| suosaaski | Of course, it is way past their goal? | 11:46 |
| AL13N_work | 1M is probably enough to pay for: initial prototype development, a 10k batch of production of tablet, and some wages for some people for a little while... if they manage to sell another 3k units (before or after? that should pay for the rest of wages and development) ? | 11:47 |
| entil | I honestly doubt that they're doing that.. that they're financing development with igg | 11:47 |
| entil | something way lesser might be, like an indie game or something, but for larger companies campaigns like these are for marketing and to show the world there is interest in the thing | 11:48 |
| AL13N_work | i think the 380k would be the minimal that they would need at this point to get out of the costs and deliver 2k units without any development whatsoever, ie: the price to get out of debt for this | 11:48 |
| suosaaski | They are making sure the first batches are sold | 11:48 |
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| entil | which is why I hope they sell out all the current devices real soon and do not put up any more, because the worst thing that could happen is having 3095 available devices there, from a PR POV | 11:49 |
| AL13N_work | well, that's not gonna happen | 11:49 |
| entil | also helps to leave some of the fans hungry | 11:49 |
| AL13N_work | but i would hope the current stock of jolla gets sold out before any new device gets out there | 11:50 |
| entil | that dinghy sailed with the $209 batch | 11:50 |
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| AL13N_work | i do hope that dual app thing gets there | 11:51 |
| AL13N_work | that could be interesting | 11:51 |
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| AL13N_work | i secured mine with the $204 batch still | 11:52 |
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| AL13N_work | just4info__: maybe there's a tablet cover that's also an USB digitizer? | 11:54 |
| pp_ | number of people who prepay 6 months in advance < number of people who want to buy product | 11:54 |
| AL13N_work | yes, but no idea how much that difference is | 11:54 |
| entil | I hope it's huge, the jolla tablet needs to become a thing | 11:55 |
| entil | it's the coolest thing to happen to this market since forever | 11:55 |
| AL13N_work | i think since this ships in USA too, it could be big-ish | 11:55 |
| AL13N_work | there needs to be more reviews with the angle of Vivaldi failed, but this is a sure thing | 11:55 |
| AL13N_work | i doubt a lot of people heard about this already | 11:56 |
| AL13N_work | even linux people | 11:56 |
| AL13N_work | yesterday was a good marketing, but the people who would buy it don't know yet | 11:56 |
| AL13N_work | slush is too expensive for most linux people, so they don't know yet | 11:56 |
| entil | but making a big hype too much in advance means people forget | 11:57 |
| dr_gogeta86 | may is too far | 11:57 |
| AL13N_work | entil: that is true | 11:57 |
| entil | and come may they're like "oh wait wat, that was the thing back then?" | 11:57 |
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| suosaaski | The Jolla tablet really needs to have proper media consuming apps when it launches. For example, if I were to buy a tablet all I would do with it would be to play games, read some news and facebook and feedly and such, and then the rest would be youtube/netflix/spotify/iptv/games/whatnot | 11:57 |
| AL13N_work | well, the advantage is that there's time yet to update sailfishos | 11:58 |
| entil | maybe the first 1000 should be shipped as beta (wink stskeeps ;) | 11:58 |
| entil | I'd beta test the fsck out of it | 11:58 |
| AL13N_work | but a real media player app is needed, there was one at warehouse, but it needs to get past it | 11:58 |
| AL13N_work | entil: you mean early? | 11:58 |
| suosaaski | entil: they will be shipped as beta, just like Jolla phone :P | 11:58 |
| entil | AL13N_work: yes | 11:58 |
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| entil | suosaaski: is that something confirmed? | 11:59 |
| AL13N_work | like march? or febr? | 11:59 |
| entil | AL13N_work: I wouldn't mind | 11:59 |
| AL13N_work | entil: ask Stskeeps if he would bring a prototype at FOSDEM | 11:59 |
| suosaaski | no, just a guess that it will be in beta state when it hits stores... | 11:59 |
| AL13N_work | so at least he can show it off | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | hrm | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | good point | 11:59 |
| AL13N_work | :) | 11:59 |
| AL13N_work | hurray | 11:59 |
| entil | it would really hurt to ship widely as beta | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | cybette: ^ | 11:59 |
| entil | I'm 99% sure it hit the .fi markets negatively | 11:59 |
| AL13N_work | maybe at fosdem, we could give some sailfishos pointers after playing with a prototype | 12:00 |
| AL13N_work | or have part of the meeting on it | 12:00 |
| entil | and it's fortunate that we're a small market but doing a world-wide beta launch.. nope.. but for the first 1000 or 2000 people who might accept it being beta it's more ok | 12:00 |
| pp_ | they could ship the software for some other hardware as beta :-) | 12:00 |
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| AL13N_work | i think sailfishos will mature over this time, so from OS perspective, i don't think it'll be beta at all | 12:00 |
| entil | the phone's been absolutely great for a long time | 12:01 |
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| suosaaski | entil: the phone shipped as beta and it was announced like 5 months after and 2 weeks before launch that it would be beta... | 12:02 |
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| suosaaski | *5 months after preorders | 12:02 |
| entil | but it was a pretty small-scale launch, and shipping a physical product is hard fucking work | 12:03 |
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| entil | especially after the one fosdem talk about all the hardships, I'm ok with how it was handled | 12:03 |
| suosaaski | yes, but whos to say it won't be the same for the tablet? | 12:03 |
| suosaaski | well, at least sailfish is not in beta anymore, but sailfish 2.0 might be... | 12:03 |
| entil | it'd be pretty lame to do it, beta is not easily paid for | 12:03 |
| entil | and then there's that, sailfish 2.0 is probably not a complete rewrite | 12:03 |
| cybette | Stskeeps: noted :) | 12:04 |
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| suosaaski | Aaaaanyway. When the tablet launches, it needs to have those media consumption apps. Otherwise it would be useless for me and many others... | 12:07 |
| entil | even the android versions | 12:07 |
| entil | a native youtube player for sailfish would pwn tho | 12:08 |
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| tadzik | there is one | 12:08 |
| tadzik | ytplayer, even in jolla store | 12:08 |
| * entil feels stupid now | 12:08 | |
| entil | thanks tadzik | 12:08 |
| suosaaski | native apps. Instead of needing to find a way to install google play store on it... | 12:09 |
| entil | wouldn't hurt preinstalling all that on the tablet though | 12:09 |
| tadzik | yw :) | 12:09 |
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| Tofe | I lost my bet... :( good luck for the others! | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | bet? | 12:10 |
| Tofe | 1M$ before 13:00 CET | 12:10 |
| entil | Thanks, Markus! You raised the campaign total to: $923,990! | 12:10 |
| kimmoli | lots of familiar names in igg backers list, among the first-ones... | 12:10 |
| entil | I just remembered to buy the shipping :D | 12:10 |
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| entil | tofe: sorry it wouldn't have helped with your bet even if I had remembered on time ;) | 12:11 |
| suosaaski | there seems to be quite a few less "shippings" bought than tablets... | 12:11 |
| Tofe | entil: :) | 12:11 |
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| kimmoli | maybe some rememeberd to add it to contribution in first place? | 12:11 |
| entil | suosaaski: I made a stupid mistake placing the order and confirmed it with igg support so that's why I didn't get the shipping at first | 12:12 |
| pp_ | or rather 25% or so got it wrong and had to fix afterwards :-) | 12:12 |
| entil | suosaaski: hit back when I thought I spotted a typo, which wasn't there, and the site reset the form state | 12:12 |
| gabriel9 | will they ship it in Bosnia and Hercegovina? LD | 12:12 |
| kimmoli | https://together.jolla.com/question/63517/jolla-tablet-which-additional-countries-should-we-make-it-available-to/ | 12:13 |
| gabriel9 | hm, Bosnia and Heregovina is not part of EU, but it is in Europe :/ | 12:14 |
| entil | gabriel9: if not, maybe you can use forward2me for it | 12:14 |
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| gabriel9 | maybe | 12:14 |
| entil | I got my waterbed from the uk with forward2me because they weren't shipping to finland.. I'd guess the tablet to be a lot cheaper than that (it wasn't cheap) | 12:14 |
| entil | anyway, have a meeting to prepare, catcha ya later! -> | 12:15 |
| gabriel9 | bye | 12:15 |
| gabriel9 | i got my jolla from friend of a friend in luxemburg | 12:15 |
| gabriel9 | and now i cant use waranty to replace screen :( | 12:15 |
| gabriel9 | i dont want same thing with tablet | 12:16 |
| Armadillo | gabriel9 Bosnia and Herzegovina is already on the TJC list with 5 votes | 12:16 |
| Armadillo | on page two | 12:16 |
| gabriel9 | thanks | 12:17 |
| gabriel9 | what about jolla2? | 12:20 |
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| mornfall | Tofe: I guess you lost the bet... | 12:22 |
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| mornfall | ah, indeed | 12:23 |
| mornfall | suosaaski: because most people actually remember to add shipping to the tablet contribution | 12:23 |
| ln- | mornfall: those are mostly people who have two lines in their street address. | 12:24 |
| mornfall | ln-: hmm? | 12:25 |
| mornfall | oh you mean an invalid address resets the extra gift thing? | 12:26 |
| ln- | yes | 12:26 |
| mornfall | clunky | 12:26 |
| Armadillo | gabriel9 not before end of 2015 I think, but we'll see, maybe other manufacturer jump on the Sailfish train when the tablet/sailfish 2.0 is out | 12:26 |
| gabriel9 | hm, i hope screen will not burn completely untill them | 12:27 |
| mornfall | ln-: I noticed they are both required so I just filled in something | 12:27 |
| gabriel9 | i assume you are all from europe, where can i find dell xps developer edition in EU | 12:27 |
| mornfall | doesn't dell sell them? | 12:27 |
| gabriel9 | they dont have them anymore, it says check sellers | 12:27 |
| gabriel9 | :/ | 12:27 |
| gabriel9 | this is in ch http://www.dell.com/ch/unternehmen/p/xps-13-linux/pd?sc_err=noocs | 12:28 |
| gabriel9 | same in UK | 12:29 |
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| stephg | I have that laptop | 12:37 |
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| stephg | can you not still buy them? | 12:37 |
| stephg | http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/laptops.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=mn#!facets=80770~0~1791343&p=1 | 12:38 |
| stephg | can buy them in the uk it seems | 12:38 |
| stephg | oh that's the US | 12:38 |
| stephg | my colleague tells me they occasionally disappear before release of a new one | 12:42 |
| stephg | (it's one of the standard options in this company for devs) | 12:42 |
| stephg | gabriel9: ^^ | 12:43 |
| gabriel9 | ahaaa | 12:43 |
| gabriel9 | so new one will come out :) | 12:43 |
| suosaaski | If only I could get the same battery life out of my own phone as I do with my work phone (Lumia 635). Time since charge: 3 days, 3 hours, battery remaining 41%... | 12:43 |
| Nicd- | anyone remember the XPS M2010? the 20" laptop with a subwoofer and 2 hour battery life on idle :) | 12:44 |
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| mornfall | I wish the same was true of thinkpad e130 ... | 12:51 |
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| mornfall | you can't buy that one either | 12:51 |
| mornfall | suosaaski: 3G disabled, presumably | 12:52 |
| suosaaski | no | 12:52 |
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| mornfall | wait, what? | 12:52 |
| mornfall | 3 days on 3G is, well, impossible | 12:53 |
| suosaaski | Of course I use it for very different things than my work phone | 12:53 |
| suosaaski | ...than my home phone | 12:53 |
| suosaaski | A couple of photos taken. Then pretty much rest is messaging (email, which is set to push by the way), sms, calls... and cortana is running, too. But that is just to get quiet hours the way I want. Which is silent when at home and during meetings. | 12:55 |
| mornfall | well, 3G eats through 2Ah in about 6 hours if you move about | 12:55 |
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| mornfall | I doubt the Lumia has 10Ah battery | 12:56 |
| suosaaski | Well as long as I am at workplace it is connected to WLAN. But at home and elsewhere it is 3G. And yesterday I was at home (which means 3G) | 12:56 |
| mornfall | well, 3G is not a big deal if you don't move | 12:56 |
| suosaaski | But whatever, this was charged on monday, and not turned off once since then. | 12:57 |
| suosaaski | It is what it is. Battery life has been awesome. | 12:57 |
| mornfall | jolla probably lasts a week on wlan if you don't touch it, but that's not much use now is it :-) | 12:58 |
| mornfall | 4 hours on train w/ 3G and the battery's gone | 12:58 |
| mornfall | (presumably because it has to run on full TX power non-stop) | 12:59 |
| suosaaski | Whatever the case for Jolla, this is the case for this cheapo Lumia. | 13:00 |
| mornfall | I think it really hinges on how you use it... typical Galaxy S3 charge lasts about a day, if you use it conservatively, it can go for almost a week | 13:01 |
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| mornfall | I expect Lumia or WP isn't really any different here... | 13:01 |
| mornfall | Also if you move with 3G enabled, coverage of the area and movement speed have a major impact... | 13:01 |
| suosaaski | Well, Lumia/WP seems to be a lot different to android... | 13:01 |
| suosaaski | I know. And low reseption. | 13:02 |
| mornfall | My commute involves 160km/h train trips in very sparsely covered countryside... :) | 13:02 |
| mornfall | Urban commute probably isn't nearly as taxing. | 13:02 |
| suosaaski | Comparison of using 3G/4G on my LG G3 (that's a lot of Gs). When driving to our wifes parents (takes about an hour at 100km/h), using wifi hotspot for our little backseat driver while he watches netflix for the whole trip, consumes about 10% of the G3s battery. Which is quite good I think... | 13:04 |
| suosaaski | *my wifes parents | 13:04 |
| suosaaski | not our :) | 13:04 |
| mornfall | yeah, that's almost unbelievably good :-) also, netflix on 3G? what? :D | 13:04 |
| suosaaski | what? Netflix works just fine for the whole trip? | 13:05 |
| mornfall | I really live at the end of nowhere. :| | 13:05 |
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| suosaaski | :o | 13:05 |
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| mornfall | Also, €30 per 10G. | 13:06 |
| suosaaski | :/ | 13:06 |
| suosaaski | 20e for unlimited calls, unlimited sms/mms, 4G at unlimited speed for 50GB after which it is throttled down... | 13:07 |
| mornfall | Out of a city, you are glad that email gets through. | 13:07 |
| suosaaski | On the other hand, I used to have 10GB limit and I never used that one up, either... | 13:09 |
| mornfall | what bitrate netflix uses? | 13:09 |
| suosaaski | 1080p requires 7Mbit/s | 13:10 |
| suosaaski | 720p requires 5Mbit/s | 13:10 |
| suosaaski | 3D requires 12Mbit and 4K 25Mbit/s | 13:10 |
| suosaaski | dvd quality only requires 3Mbit/s | 13:11 |
| suosaaski | Well, those are the recommendations, of course it varies a bit changing on what's on the scene being played. And then there is a buffer of some size. | 13:11 |
| ggabriel | isn't dvd 720p? | 13:11 |
| mornfall | ggabriel: nope | 13:11 |
| suosaaski | dvd is 480 (NTSC) or 576 (PAL) | 13:12 |
| mornfall | anyway, that makes fullHD about 3GB/hour, which is no big deal with 50GB of a limit :-) | 13:12 |
| mornfall | civilisation has its advantages I guess | 13:13 |
| mornfall | but then, my home connection is 12/2mbit | 13:13 |
| suosaaski | in reality it odes not take that much. And then it might be closer to that 720p during the trip, especially with that tablet in question. | 13:13 |
| mornfall | and it's €15 a month too | 13:14 |
| suosaaski | that's not too bad | 13:14 |
| suosaaski | By the way, anyone considered porting Sailfish to Honor 6? That would offer nice specs for the price... | 13:15 |
| nander | Lol, it's like crazy expensive here then :( | 13:15 |
| nander | I pay 15 euro's a month for 300 minutes / sms, 1 GB 3G | 13:15 |
| mornfall | well, compared to 100/50 for €20 including voice it's not so great :-) | 13:15 |
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| suosaaski | of course, but usually (at least here) the difference in price is nowhere near as big as the differences in speed. Probably just to get people to getting the faster connections even if they don't need it. | 13:16 |
| mornfall | well, that 12/2 is the top speed I can get, so :-) | 13:17 |
| nander | That's mobile speed, right? | 13:17 |
| suosaaski | I would say... no... :) | 13:17 |
| nander | Or is it landline? | 13:17 |
| mornfall | no, fixed | 13:17 |
| nander | That sucks ;) | 13:17 |
| mornfall | it's wireless but fixed | 13:17 |
| nander | I have 1000/1000 | 13:17 |
| mornfall | no cables around | 13:17 |
| suosaaski | 12M is plenty for most people | 13:17 |
| nander | I live on the campus of my university | 13:18 |
| nander | 12 mbit is low | 13:18 |
| mornfall | yeah, it's enough, the uplink is a problem though | 13:18 |
| suosaaski | nah, most services work just fine with 12M | 13:18 |
| nander | But they are crazy slow | 13:18 |
| nander | Like, you have to wait when downloading steam games | 13:18 |
| mornfall | hah, steam | 13:19 |
| suosaaski | Yeah well... what's the hurry. And I don't download steam games :) | 13:19 |
| mornfall | yeah | 13:19 |
| mornfall | but uploading photos takes forever | 13:19 |
| suosaaski | 12M is enough to stream Netflix at 1080p, which is enough for me. | 13:19 |
| mornfall | but then of course, netflix doesn't work in .cz anyway | 13:19 |
| mornfall | end of nowhere really :-) | 13:20 |
| suosaaski | I have 50M at home, I see no difference to the 24M I had just a week ago :) | 13:20 |
| tadzik | neither in PL. TPB still provides a better service | 13:20 |
| mornfall | yeah, sad state of affairs | 13:21 |
| meklu | popcorn time might interest you in case you don't have netflix | 13:21 |
| meklu | or even if you do have it but can't find the thing you want to watch on there | 13:21 |
| mornfall | Downloading copyrighted material may be illegal in your country. Use at your own risk. | 13:21 |
| mornfall | lol | 13:21 |
| suosaaski | If by PL you mean Poland, then at least you have Android 5.0 for LG G3 via OTA :) | 13:21 |
| meklu | ha, yeah | 13:21 |
| tadzik | androwhat? :) | 13:22 |
| suosaaski | lollipop... if you are really asking | 13:22 |
| nander | When will the next jolla update be available? | 13:22 |
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| mornfall | yeah, that's a better question | 13:23 |
| suosaaski | Probably when the tablet is released :) Unless you are talking about bug fixes... | 13:24 |
| nander | I mean 1.1.*.* | 13:24 |
| nander | Or 1.2.*.* | 13:24 |
| mornfall | isn't the tablet software, like, complete already? :P | 13:24 |
| SK_work | nander: or 1.1.1.X | 13:24 |
| SK_work | mornfall: or not ready at all ? | 13:25 |
| suosaaski | mornfall: if it was, it wouldn't take 6 months to get the tablet out. | 13:25 |
| mornfall | yeah, maybe | 13:25 |
| SK_work | suosaaski: manufacturers etc. ? | 13:25 |
| mornfall | dunno how deep the manufacture pipeline is tho | 13:25 |
| nander | If they had it ready they would choose to ship before christmas | 13:25 |
| suosaaski | Well I would imagine that they would have manufacturer sorted out, and it's not like an iphone that you need to have 10 million produced in advance before launch | 13:26 |
| TemeV | didn't they annouce in the mailing list like few weeks ago, that they _start_ making sailifis compatible for higher resolution | 13:26 |
| nander | That resolution seems to be crazy high by the way ;) | 13:26 |
| suosaaski | it's not crazy, pretty standard for a good tablet and I was not expecting anything less (if it had been less it would not be interesting at all) | 13:27 |
| nander | FHD would have been plenty imo | 13:28 |
| suosaaski | fhd would have been 16:9 | 13:28 |
| meklu | why not 1920x1920? | 13:28 |
| nander | It's 16:10 now? | 13:28 |
| * meklu hides | 13:28 | |
| suosaaski | 4:3 | 13:28 |
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| nander | Really? | 13:28 |
| suosaaski | meklu: why make something with a custom resolution when you can have standard panels for probably less money? | 13:29 |
| TemeV | 300dpi+ is quite nice for a device you look that close | 13:29 |
| suosaaski | nander: yes, the same as ipad mini, ipad, nokia n1, nexus 9... | 13:29 |
| meklu | suosaaski: well, eizo released a screen with that resolution :) | 13:29 |
| meklu | http://www.eizoglobal.com/press/releases/htmls/ev2730q.html | 13:29 |
| suosaaski | meklu: yes, but would probably not be a 250 usd device with some weird non-common resolution | 13:30 |
| suosaaski | And also, that eizo is not 7,9" in size ;) | 13:30 |
| meklu | :) | 13:30 |
| meklu | of course I wasn't being completely serious there | 13:31 |
| suosaaski | Anyway, in my experience, I think that 4:3 is probably the best aspect ratio for a tablet. At least so far... | 13:31 |
| TemeV | I've always wondered, why is 1980 so convinient number for resolution | 13:31 |
| nander | I'd expect 16:10-ish, because standardized media format | 13:31 |
| TemeV | or 1080 | 13:31 |
| nander | 1920* | 13:31 |
| nander | Because it's an exact 16:9 | 13:31 |
| nander | You don't do 1/2 pixels | 13:32 |
| suosaaski | nander: 4:3 is better if you use it both landscape and portrait. | 13:32 |
| TemeV | But why is there 1980*1200, is the aspect ratio so important there also? | 13:32 |
| TemeV | *1920x1200 | 13:32 |
| suosaaski | 1920*1200 | 13:32 |
| nander | Because 1920*1200 is what you want for a pc monitor | 13:32 |
| nander | And 1920*1080 is a typical media format | 13:32 |
| nander | Because films are in 16:9 | 13:33 |
| flux | with 16:10 you get to fit media controls below the video. | 13:33 |
| TemeV | nander: yes, but why not 2000*1200 or some even numbers | 13:33 |
| suosaaski | using portrait and having a device bigger than say 7", that is 16:9, the device gets really tall and uncomfortable to use. Also 4:3 offers more screen real-estate with the same size. | 13:34 |
| flux | because scaling video from 1920 to 2000 results in artifacts | 13:34 |
| flux | not to mention it takes performance | 13:34 |
| TemeV | well, doesn't matter really what the exact resolution is. Stupid thing is that displays are "stuck" in full HD | 13:34 |
| meklu | 1920x1200 is 16:10 | 13:34 |
| nander | 4K monitors exist | 13:34 |
| meklu | 16:10 is amayzing | 13:34 |
| nander | They are just expensive | 13:34 |
| suosaaski | qhd exists, too | 13:34 |
| TemeV | ok, so scaling is the answer here | 13:34 |
| sqozz | just want to share this information with you: "We have some plans for the accessories but more information will be shared later. Stay tuned!" (from the comments on indiegogo" from Jolla) | 13:35 |
| meklu | I'd love it if we had some 4K 144Hz 10bpc screens at reasonable prices ;) | 13:35 |
| Armadillo | sqozz thx | 13:36 |
| TemeV | Btw, 16:10 is not that expensive, if you also want height adjustment etc | 13:36 |
| ggabriel | oh no, "stay tuned" again | 13:36 |
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| suosaaski | I just don't get it why some manufacturers decided to call 1080p "full" hd :) | 13:36 |
| ggabriel | the horror | 13:36 |
| Jope | I'd love it if someone made a 5" 4:3 tft with today's insane dot pitches, then connected it to a decoder that does composite, s-video and rgbs, syncs to 49-61Hz / 15kHz | 13:36 |
| suosaaski | like there could never be more :) | 13:36 |
| Jope | a man can dream. | 13:36 |
| TemeV | suosaaski: well, then you must love the Ultra HD :) | 13:37 |
| TemeV | the new term for 4k | 13:37 |
| suosaaski | TemeV: I know there are higher resolutions. But calling something "full hd" suggests that it is as high as it gets | 13:37 |
| TemeV | I just mean the term Ultra HD | 13:38 |
| suosaaski | at least ultra does not suggest that there could not be a "hyper hd" | 13:38 |
| suosaaski | or whatnot :) | 13:38 |
| lainwir3d | hyper mega ultra HD | 13:38 |
| flux | it's usb all over again :(( | 13:38 |
| lainwir3d | Ironman HD | 13:38 |
| flux | why can't we just use numbers. | 13:38 |
| flux | there are unlimited number of them available | 13:38 |
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| lainwir3d | not marketing enough | 13:39 |
| TemeV | and HD ready is also funny | 13:39 |
| flux | lainwir3d, you mean not misleading enough? | 13:39 |
| suosaaski | HD Ready 1080p was probably not sexy enough, or manufacturers decided they did not want to pay licenses, or their devices did not meet the standards. Hence "Full HD" was born. | 13:39 |
| lainwir3d | +1 | 13:39 |
| TemeV | and then with TVs there is "Cable ready HD", etc which is nothing to do with "HD ready" | 13:39 |
| nander | HD ready: in a few months your TV will support HD | 13:40 |
| ruskie | lol | 13:40 |
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| ruskie | insane HD | 13:40 |
| lainwir3d | still better than HD not ready | 13:40 |
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| suosaaski | HD ready suggests that the tv is ready for HD :) | 13:40 |
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| TemeV | yes it is... except the panel isn't | 13:41 |
| ruskie | something that someone in some room somewhere might consider HD | 13:41 |
| suosaaski | cable ready hd is weird, would be better if it was Cable HD ready :) | 13:41 |
| suosaaski | TemeV: but it is. 720p is hd and the panel meets the spec | 13:41 |
| suosaaski | usually 768 | 13:41 |
| suosaaski | Then there is hd ready 1080p, which is the real standard for 1080p (1920*1080). | 13:42 |
| suosaaski | fullhd is just marketing | 13:42 |
| ruskie | hmm nobody updated the campaign at the bottom with the 2k tablets gone and the 1k now running | 13:42 |
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| TemeV | I tought HD ready basically just means there is HDMI connector | 13:43 |
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| suosaaski | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_ready | 13:44 |
| suosaaski | there are the differences between hd ready and hd ready 1080p | 13:44 |
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| TemeV | awful mess they made with the naming | 13:45 |
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| tadzik | I'm pretty sure it was intentional | 13:45 |
| tadzik | having both qHD and QHD, a sales' wet dream! | 13:46 |
| suosaaski | Should have stuck with official ones. HD Ready, and HD Ready 1080p, and now would probably be HD Ready 2160p and so on. Simple. | 13:46 |
| suosaaski | yeah, that qHD and QHD thing is ridiculous :) | 13:46 |
| meklu | at least they're not as confusing as those *GA things | 13:46 |
| TemeV | suosaaski: why the word ready | 13:47 |
| meklu | those tend to look like they went through a woodchipper after being plopped out of an RNG | 13:47 |
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| TemeV | why not just HD 1080p etc | 13:47 |
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| meklu | it's not fancy enough! | 13:48 |
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| meklu | I have no idea why people would put the p at the end there | 13:48 |
| meklu | it stands for progressive | 13:48 |
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| meklu | the blit type seems odd to mention | 13:48 |
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| TemeV | well there is also 1080i | 13:49 |
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| suosaaski | the fisplay is "ready" for hd | 13:57 |
| suosaaski | display | 13:57 |
| meklu | fish play | 13:58 |
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| CissWit | Hi, I'd like to buy a case and a screen protector for my Jolla but they are all out of stock. Do any of you know if they will be available anytime soon ? | 14:33 |
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| nander | They are still out of stock? :S | 14:42 |
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| suosaaski | CissWit: wouldn't that depend on which case you want? | 14:46 |
| suosaaski | Or all of them? | 14:46 |
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| nazanin | CissWit: you can get them from insmat shot directly: http://www.insmat.fi/fi/haku?q=jolla | 14:46 |
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| suosaaski | http://lastucase.com/#products | 14:47 |
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| CissWit | nazanin: do they deliver elsewhere than finland ? it looked to me they only deliver there. | 14:56 |
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| _inte_ | for cases I prefer these: http://www.raedan.de/ | 14:58 |
| _inte_ | they will even make one for the new jolla tablet | 14:58 |
| _inte_ | quality is very good, im using one with my jolla phone (and previously with my n900 | 14:58 |
| _inte_ | ) | 14:58 |
| CissWit | furthermore i was wondering if they would be available on the jolla shop because im considering getting an other half too and i wouldn't pay the shipping fees multiple times | 14:59 |
| _inte_ | oh it seems that raedan.de is only german at present | 15:00 |
| _inte_ | i would recommend them anyways. translations can be guessed easily :) | 15:00 |
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| mornfall | you can also make a textile cover yourself :) | 15:01 |
| _inte_ | well prices are fair and Im not that particular clever with my hands | 15:02 |
| _inte_ | im not a girl:) | 15:02 |
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| suosaaski | CissWit: lastucase does not have shipping | 15:05 |
| CissWit | i don't really like this kind of cases. I drop my phone too much when i'm actually using it. So the case wouldn't help :) That's why i like the insmat case. The lastu case look good but it doesn't seam to protect the edges very well | 15:05 |
| suosaaski | (costs) | 15:05 |
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| nander | Why does my jolla play the phone error tone when I ignore a call? | 15:29 |
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| _inte_ | what? | 15:30 |
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| nander | SSLv3 is turned off on jolla? | 15:37 |
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| stephg | should be by now yeah | 15:39 |
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| sec | yeah, fucking cows | 15:43 |
| nander | By the way, why does Jolla use the term rom for internal memory? | 15:44 |
| nander | Read Only Memory | 15:44 |
| suosaaski | many others do, too... | 15:45 |
| tadzik | yeah, it's not a TLA anymore | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | nander: probably my fault for not noticing it when we looked at the page | 15:46 |
| _inte_ | uh, 250% | 15:47 |
| _inte_ | but its approching 1m rather slow | 15:48 |
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| suosaaski | of course, most of the people who want it early already ordered it. | 15:49 |
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| SK_work | http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2014/11/19/world-s-first-crowdsourced-tablet-launched-today-from-jolla-powered-by-intel | 15:59 |
| SK_work | intel 3700 series | 15:59 |
| SK_work | don't know if it tells something | 15:59 |
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| Nicd- | http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/atom/atom-z3700-consumer-tablets-brief.html | 16:01 |
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| Nicd- | looks like... Intel HD graphics | 16:01 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: http://ark.intel.com/products/80274/Intel-Atom-Processor-Z3735F-2M-Cache-up-to-1_83-GHz | 16:01 |
| Stskeeps | provided no hw changes happen (i don't think they will) | 16:01 |
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| SK_work | intel hd graphics | 16:03 |
| SK_work | :) | 16:03 |
| suosaaski | those new z37xx seem to be quite nice | 16:04 |
| suosaaski | we have plenty of those at work (although running windows), a lot better than the older z2760 etc that used to be on older windows tablets | 16:05 |
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| Nicd- | I shared that on G+ Stskeeps, punch me if something was wrong | 16:06 |
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| suosaaski | I had a thinkpad 8 that had z3770 and that was nice. And I don't think there is a huge difference to the one on the jolla tablet | 16:07 |
| locusf | lol its got vt-x | 16:08 |
| clau | @jolla, congrats for the succesful crowdfunding campaign :) | 16:08 |
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| locusf | wonder if Jolla will add KVM support for qemu etc :) | 16:09 |
| clau | I see it's near $1mil already | 16:09 |
| Stskeeps | locusf: well, wayland support for qemu would be nice. | 16:09 |
| Stskeeps | isn't qemu SDL(2) based? | 16:09 |
| locusf | Stskeeps: oh yeah well :/ | 16:10 |
| suosaaski | No use for virtualization, unless you plan to run virtual android or windows on it, but I would imagine it would be simple to run it the other way around (windows as host) | 16:11 |
| Stskeeps | debian in a kvm? | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:12 |
| arturo182 | ls | 16:12 |
| arturo182 | woops, wrong window | 16:12 |
| SK_work | locusf: they will use kvm to run ARM android :P | 16:13 |
| locusf | SK_work: LOL | 16:14 |
| locusf | that'd be quite perverse | 16:14 |
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| mkollaro | could somebody please point me to some tutorial on sending signals between C++ and QML? I found this http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qtbinding.html, but it's qt4 and not 5, plus I don't actually know how to connect the example there (with QDeclarativeEngine) and Silica | 16:20 |
| mkollaro | there is also a signal example in the SDK, which doesn't seem to work...or at least works differently than I expect, because the app doesn't show on the screen and just prints something into the log | 16:23 |
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| SK_work | mkollaro: what do you want to do ? | 16:27 |
| SK_work | BTW: ==> #sailfishos | 16:27 |
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| artemma | $958K by now. Will it get to $1M by midnight? :) | 16:31 |
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| _inte_ | no | 16:32 |
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| artemma | mkollaro: that 4.8 material is still valid. Or you can check newer version at http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qtqml-cppintegration-interactqmlfromcpp.html | 16:33 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | Stskeeps, spice over html5 ... no problem at all :-D | 16:37 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | as kvm vms interface | 16:38 |
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| suosaaski | By the way... is multiuser support coming to Sailfish OS 2.0 (for the tablet)? | 16:41 |
| grzywacz | Yeah, would be good to share it at home without much hassle... | 16:45 |
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| suosaaski | That is a must. The biggest issue with iPad is lack of multiuser support. Android offers some sort of multiuser support. Windows... well. Multiuser shines. | 16:47 |
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| SK_work | suosaaski: go TMO | 16:49 |
| SK_work | no | 16:49 |
| SK_work | go TJC | 16:49 |
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| SK_work | that's a SW suggestion, that is important | 16:49 |
| SK_work | people are talking about HW stuff | 16:49 |
| SK_work | but this feature is important indeed | 16:49 |
| SK_work | suosaaski: can I borrow your idea to make a TJC post ? | 16:50 |
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| SK_work | suosaaski: it is already in the suggestions :) | 16:50 |
| suosaaski | SK_work: well if it's already there, then good, but of course you could have borrowed it :) | 16:51 |
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| suosaaski | Also. I was talking about those things missing on other platforms and what others get. Family sharing. Would be kinda cool to have an owner for the tablet (just like with android or windows), then when you add accounts, you can select if they are child accounts (like in windows 8). Then, for that child account, you can select which apps are accessible so the child does not see apps not appropriate. | 16:55 |
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| suosaaski | Also, what I kinda hate for android/windows multiuser, is that apps installed from store are per user. So if I were to pay for say photoshop etc on my tablet, and another user wants to use it on the same device, I would have to pay again. | 16:56 |
| suosaaski | That could also be handled like in windows phone, where there is "kids corner" that can be opened without unlocking the whole phone and only selected apps are available. | 16:57 |
| SK_work | suosaaski: use same google/ms account for all accounts | 16:57 |
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| SK_work | suosaaski: anyway, yes, the multiaccount thing on android is just bad | 16:57 |
| SK_work | please jaakko, make us a better ui and ux | 16:57 |
| suosaaski | But multiuser is better. Or both. I guess that kids corner could be thought of as a guest account, too. | 16:57 |
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| SK_work | suosaaski: yes | 16:58 |
| SK_work | well a powerful multiuser thing | 16:58 |
| SK_work | that allows several different online accounts | 16:58 |
| suosaaski | I could use the same, but I prefer loggint into windows with the MS account to get synced backgroud, tile placement, personal Onedrive and stuff. | 16:58 |
| SK_work | (maybe one jolla account for the repositories, but maybe even store stuff should be separated) | 16:58 |
| SK_work | several levels | 16:58 |
| SK_work | root / user / invite | 16:58 |
| SK_work | limitations etc | 16:58 |
| suosaaski | yes, something like that | 16:58 |
| SK_work | I want this | 16:58 |
| SK_work | I also want a security model, that reminds me of trying to do a contacts access proof of concept with polkit | 16:59 |
| suosaaski | Cos for most families, a tablet is a shared device between family members. | 16:59 |
| SK_work | despite special saying that it won't work | 16:59 |
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| SK_work | actually, what i need is time, and less CivBE ... | 16:59 |
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| suosaaski | And yes, security. Could be done similar to Android where lock code can be selected per user. So parents can have lock code and the child would not need it. | 17:00 |
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| suosaaski | Also, as far as I understand, that multiuser thing and application data on windows is handled quite nicely. | 17:01 |
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| SK_work | suosaaski: you can have several accounts too | 17:02 |
| SK_work | instead of /home/nemo all the things | 17:02 |
| suosaaski | Aaaaaand one more thing. As the tablet likely is the first opportunity for people to actually have two sailfish os devices, please, PLEASE, add a cloud sync for important app data out of the box. I mean, what I hate most about most (all) platforms is the fact that the data is not synced as nicely as it should. For example, if I play a certain game on my phone, and tablet. Even on iOS. Or windows phone. Or I decide to reset my device. It would be quite ... | 17:03 |
| suosaaski | ... nice that I could start from where I left of on the other device or before resetting my device. | 17:03 |
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| ryukafalz | Cloud sync has lots of privacy implications | 17:05 |
| suosaaski | take hill climb racing for example. (not sure if available for sailfish or not). Lets say I would have played that game from day 1 on my jolla phone (if I had one). Then a tablet is released, 1-1,5 years later. "Yes, I can play it on big screen", then install, and have to start from 0... not gonna happen. | 17:05 |
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| suosaaski | ryukafalz: maybe, but that could also be set as an option. | 17:05 |
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| suosaaski | even per app | 17:06 |
| suosaaski | You could for example use younited for it. | 17:06 |
| suosaaski | (I think...) | 17:07 |
| Tofe | suosaaski: for syncing jolla devices, a native sw is required I'd say | 17:07 |
| SK_work | suosaaski: cloud | 17:08 |
| SK_work | hum | 17:08 |
| SK_work | what I would like is something like nfc | 17:08 |
| SK_work | tap and transfer save | 17:08 |
| ggabriel | rsync is in /usr/bin | 17:09 |
| Tofe | zeroconfig network+rsync :) | 17:09 |
| ryukafalz | SK_work: there are so many great things that could be done with NFC, heh | 17:09 |
| Tofe | (+gui...) | 17:09 |
| SK_work | Tofe: bluetooth | 17:09 |
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| Tofe | Bluetooth isn't very quick | 17:10 |
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| Tofe | transferring a video would take too long, and both device are certainly on the same network | 17:10 |
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| SK_work | Tofe: transfering game saves is ok :) | 17:11 |
| suosaaski | Tofe: is younited not native? | 17:11 |
| Tofe | ah sure :) | 17:11 |
| Tofe | suosaaski: android app so far | 17:11 |
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| suosaaski | wow, I thought it has been native for months... | 17:12 |
| Tofe | nope | 17:12 |
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| Tofe | imho, an owncloud instance would be sufficient for first needs | 17:14 |
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| ryukafalz | owncloud++ | 17:15 |
| Tofe | but where to put it, that may be the pb | 17:15 |
| Tofe | maybe use any owncloud the user would configure | 17:17 |
| Tofe | but that can't be so simple :) | 17:17 |
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| suosaaski | Is there any idea of an ETA for younited? | 17:27 |
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| lainwir3d | intel HD graphics | 17:39 |
| lainwir3d | nice | 17:39 |
| lainwir3d | http://ark.intel.com/products/80274/Intel-Atom-Processor-Z3735F-2M-Cache-up-to-1_83-GHz | 17:39 |
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| suosaaski | So, any idea which one has better performance? http://ark.intel.com/products/81195/Intel-Atom-Processor-Z3580-2M-Cache-up-to-2_33-GHz | 17:44 |
| suosaaski | (or the jolla tablet) | 17:44 |
| dunp | no sse on 1.83GHz atom | 17:46 |
| suosaaski | z3580 is what nokia n1 has | 17:46 |
| suosaaski | I would imagine both have enough cpu speed, just wondering about the graphics performance. Well, gaming. | 17:47 |
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| Stskeeps | dunp: faairly sure it has ssse3.. | 17:49 |
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| Stskeeps | flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf nonstop_tsc_s3 pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm sse4_1 sse4_2 movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes rdrand lahf_lm 3dnowprefetch ida arat epb dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi ... | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | ... flexpriority ept vpid tsc_adjust smep erms | 17:50 |
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| dunp | but on site specs | 17:50 |
| Teemu | vme and mca sound like very current technologies, musthave | 17:50 |
| Teemu | also it's nice if it has good reputation | 17:51 |
| grzywacz | Any news on the SDK for the tablet yet? ;) | 17:51 |
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| tanghus | Jolla in Danish media: http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Viden/Tech/2014/11/19/145251.htm /cc Stskeeps :) | 17:55 |
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| Stskeeps | uh-oh. | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | i hope there's no interview with me. | 17:56 |
| tanghus | Don't worry. Only good news :) | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | good | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:57 |
| tanghus | Allingstrup is improving in his articles | 17:57 |
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| SK_work | Stskeeps: did you got interviewed ? | 17:58 |
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| Stskeeps | SK_work: well, not for this particular event, no | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | but i did when i was in cph | 17:59 |
| tanghus | Stskeeps: To the cool event at IDA? | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 18:00 |
| Acce | will 1 million be broken tonite, I wonder | 18:00 |
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| suosaaski | Acce: it has slowed down quite a bit, so I don't think it will. Well, of course depends on your time zone, too. | 18:05 |
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| Guhl | i did make some propaganda for you by informing an austrian journalist about the tablet and the crowdfunding | 18:18 |
| Guhl | this is the result: http://derstandard.at/2000008404728/Community-finanziert-Jolla-Tablet-mit-Sailfish-OS | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 18:19 |
| Guhl | hope it helps to raise the funds | 18:19 |
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| Tegu | btw, 2^8 % :) | 18:22 |
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| ortylp | Guhl: nice work :) | 18:28 |
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| mkollaro | SK_work: ah, thanks for the irc channel, I was just wondering which one should be more relevant to this | 18:35 |
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| pdanek | If a single large company blacklists you for future employment because not accepting a verbally agreed role (from my side, just communication issues with an agency, but apparently agency told the company something else), would you worry about it a lot? | 18:43 |
| pdanek | I know there is a lot of companies out there, but it's a bad feeling. | 18:43 |
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| VDVsx | I would try to clarify with the company, at least to clean my name | 18:53 |
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| VDVsx | don't like those recruiting agencies a single bit, they just spread BS and many times don't understand anything about the job/position | 18:55 |
| VDVsx | not all, but by my experience, majority of them | 18:55 |
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| artemma | $12.5K short from $1M :) | 20:16 |
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| JvD_ | getting close | 20:33 |
| lainwir3d | 1 million !! | 20:33 |
| lainwir3d | oh no, not yet | 20:33 |
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| attah | the campaign seems to have lost some momentum :/ | 20:35 |
| _inte_ | jep | 20:36 |
| _inte_ | no million today (cet) | 20:36 |
| _inte_ | btw | 20:36 |
| attah | but doing so at well over 2 times the goal isn't too bad :) | 20:36 |
| _inte_ | i read elsewhere the jolla phone can be bought for 250$? | 20:36 |
| _inte_ | my screen is still brocken and a repair would cost 180 | 20:37 |
| _inte_ | i can probably rather sell the phone on ebay and get a new one... | 20:37 |
| attah | it's $250 in india.. | 20:37 |
| _inte_ | oh | 20:38 |
| attah | aka 15490 inr | 20:38 |
| Nicd- | the price is 349 € in shop.jolla.com | 20:38 |
| _inte_ | well, maybe on my next vacation then :) | 20:38 |
| Nicd- | but there's going to be more discount vouchers coming | 20:38 |
| Nicd- | because all tohkbd buyers get one | 20:38 |
| _inte_ | ok | 20:38 |
| Nicd- | so then it would be 249 € | 20:38 |
| _inte_ | maybe i should also get one of those keyboards | 20:39 |
| _inte_ | but i ordered a tablet | 20:39 |
| attah | also one way to do it ;) | 20:39 |
| _inte_ | no serious need for a keyboard any longer | 20:39 |
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| _inte_ | 130€ | 20:40 |
| _inte_ | mh | 20:41 |
| _inte_ | would be nice to have but its quite expensive | 20:41 |
| Ezko | #jollatohkbd | 20:42 |
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| _inte_ | is there any guarantee that current tohs will fit to jolla2 as well? | 20:42 |
| Nicd- | no | 20:42 |
| Nicd- | in fact I would assume that they won't | 20:42 |
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| Ezko | i hope they keep this screen size | 20:43 |
| ruskie | I hope they keep the compatiblity | 20:43 |
| ruskie | frankly I find it the right size | 20:43 |
| Ezko | that too | 20:43 |
| attah | Ezko: device-size anyway.. maybe a smidgeon wider | 20:43 |
| Ezko | yeah | 20:43 |
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| attah | perhaps they could keep the pin/camera/antenna layout.. that helps a lot for TOH-development | 20:44 |
| attah | an then you just need to re-do the plastic | 20:44 |
| lainwir3d | true | 20:44 |
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| _inte_ | mh | 20:45 |
| _inte_ | i still have 13 days to go so i will rethink about it | 20:45 |
| _inte_ | under these circumstances it might be a good idea to choose the 60€ do-it-yourself kit | 20:46 |
| _inte_ | the keyboard and especially the mechanism looks pretty cool in the vid | 20:46 |
| attah | _inte_: if circumstances include owning a 3d-printer :) | 20:47 |
| _inte_ | well i would bet there are some copyshops which offer 3d printing already | 20:47 |
| _inte_ | or people who know people who have access to a 3d printer :) | 20:48 |
| _inte_ | i bet they are pretty common at universities already | 20:48 |
| attah | damn i feel old ;) | 20:49 |
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| attah | .. and i'm 25 :O | 20:51 |
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| _inte_ | its getting winter | 20:54 |
| _inte_ | i want one of these jolla beanies | 20:54 |
| Ezko | 0 degrees in helsinki | 20:54 |
| _inte_ | please jolla, add one to each first sailor tablet :) | 20:54 |
| _inte_ | and ship it NOW not in May :) | 20:54 |
| _inte_ | Tonight it will freeze in Hamburg for the first time | 20:55 |
| pp_ | zomg someone paid 2500e for the hero edition tohkbd | 20:55 |
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| mornfall | yes, I just noticed | 20:55 |
| _inte_ | yeah just saw that too | 20:55 |
| mornfall | wow :D | 20:55 |
| _inte_ | nice gesture | 20:55 |
| Nicd- | hero of the community <3 | 20:55 |
| attah | i was trying to fins those beanies.. have they disappeared? | 20:55 |
| Armadillo | 7500$ to go for the million | 20:55 |
| _inte_ | probably the jolla people when they where celebrating and drunk last night :) | 20:55 |
| Armadillo | haha | 20:56 |
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| pp_ | lots of signature editions to do :-) | 20:56 |
| Nicd- | I seem to have one jolla beanie, dunno where I got it from | 20:57 |
| _inte_ | If youre finish you maybe got it with your phone | 20:58 |
| _inte_ | i think the second, only finland preorder batch came with the beanie instead of the shirt | 20:58 |
| _inte_ | btw | 20:58 |
| _inte_ | some funny read from last year: | 20:59 |
| _inte_ | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:L%C3%B6schkandidaten/24._November_2013#Jolla_.28bleibt.29 | 20:59 |
| _inte_ | its in German so you might need google translate | 20:59 |
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| _inte_ | some guys in German wikipedia suggested to delete the Jolla article | 20:59 |
| _inte_ | and in fact deleted it twice | 20:59 |
| _inte_ | since there were no phones available yet | 21:00 |
| attah | i think preoder perks should have been ordered by latitude.. if you live enough north you get a beanie.. southerners get t-shirts ;) | 21:00 |
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| lainwir3d | beanwhat ? | 21:02 |
| Aard | _inte_: ah, it's always nice to be reminded how messed up the bureaucrats in the german wikipedia are :) | 21:02 |
| _inte_ | hehe:) | 21:03 |
| _inte_ | Aard: yeah that was crazy | 21:03 |
| _inte_ | attah: i'd consider hamburg weather not to be too different from Helsinki weather:) | 21:03 |
| _inte_ | Could become nasty in winter | 21:04 |
| Aard | _inte_: just read the heise article from back then. totally missed that at that time, which might be due to me being a tiny bit busy | 21:04 |
| attah | might be so :) not sure where such a line would be... | 21:04 |
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| _inte_ | attah: I guess it was just the second batch which went to Finland and due to some reason came with the beanie | 21:05 |
| _inte_ | lainwir3d: beanie - hat | 21:05 |
| attah | yeah.. i know.. still want one though ;) | 21:06 |
| _inte_ | lainwir3d: aka pipo | 21:06 |
| lainwir3d | oh, ok | 21:06 |
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| _inte_ | http://jollasuomi.fi/jolla-pipon-arvonnan-liveblogi/ | 21:07 |
| _inte_ | that one i guess | 21:07 |
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| * Aard still should have mine here somewhere. my wife ruined it shortly after I got it by washing it at 90 degrees | 21:07 | |
| _inte_ | oh | 21:08 |
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| _inte_ | if you have children you could give it to them:) | 21:08 |
| _inte_ | my ex girlfriend ruined my fcstpauli scarf the same way | 21:08 |
| Aard | _inte_: they don't get smaller, but the fabric loses elasticity | 21:09 |
| _inte_ | had to break up later :) | 21:09 |
| Aard | which makes them pretty much useless | 21:09 |
| _inte_ | oh ok sorry to hear that | 21:09 |
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| kimmoli | i got my pipo from slush | 21:11 |
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| kimmoli | have also makia "aloe", but it just plops out of my head | 21:11 |
| Aard | the topic reminded me that it's the time of year where it makes sense to put reflectors on your clothes | 21:12 |
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| coderus | $993,711 | 21:12 |
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| coderus | $994,169 | 21:13 |
| coderus | $994,378 | 21:13 |
| _inte_ | oh, getting close | 21:13 |
| grzywacz | Why's $1M so exciting? | 21:13 |
| _inte_ | worth staying awake for a while := | 21:13 |
| _inte_ | ) | 21:13 |
| _inte_ | because... | 21:14 |
| coderus | grzywacz: no idea, igg will take 3-5% anyway | 21:14 |
| _inte_ | just because :) | 21:14 |
| grzywacz | It's not even big money for a 100+ company doing hardware... | 21:14 |
| coderus | grzywacz: you right | 21:15 |
| suosaaski | Well, 1M is just a nice number... | 21:15 |
| coderus | i can go to sleep then and stop watching | 21:15 |
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| coderus | $994,398 | 21:15 |
| _inte_ | stalled again | 21:16 |
| _inte_ | but 444 devices at present:) | 21:16 |
| _inte_ | btw | 21:16 |
| _inte_ | is it know allready if the tablets uses uefi or coreboot? | 21:17 |
| coderus | this numbers! numbers everywhere! numbers follow me everywhere! | 21:17 |
| _inte_ | google uses coreboot on chromebooks but i dont know what is common on intel/android devices | 21:17 |
| _inte_ | i guess jolla will use the same, though | 21:18 |
| Hartzi | coderus: you cannot hide! | 21:18 |
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| coderus | numbers talk with me, i should watch numbers! | 21:18 |
| coderus | _inte_: efi afaik | 21:18 |
| _inte_ | ah ok thx | 21:18 |
| artemma | Russia just announced they'd like to build exportable moble OS too. Like something based on #nemomobile? :) | 21:18 |
| coderus | oh, kill all russians OS please | 21:19 |
| _inte_ | arent they announcing this all the time? | 21:19 |
| coderus | kill yandex *browser* | 21:19 |
| coderus | and kill mail.ru | 21:19 |
| _inte_ | i read something similar about 6 month ago | 21:19 |
| _inte_ | well its probably the russian version of goole | 21:20 |
| artemma | well, so far it's minister speaking, don't think the decision is made | 21:20 |
| _inte_ | 21:20 | |
| artemma | quite expensive and tough | 21:20 |
| artemma | unless you just rebrand something like nemo | 21:20 |
| _inte_ | china announced something similar some time ago | 21:20 |
| coderus | $995,090 | 21:20 |
| _inte_ | but that was android-based i think | 21:20 |
| coderus | china have a lot of internal services we have no idea it exists | 21:21 |
| * artemma thinks China actually has some heavly modified version of Android (based on open source part of it), not sure how widely it's used | 21:21 | |
| coderus | and making new products every month | 21:21 |
| _inte_ | http://www.heise.de/open/meldung/Russische-Suchmaschine-Yandex-stellt-eigene-Android-Version-bereit-2126111.html | 21:21 |
| _inte_ | german again | 21:21 |
| artemma | and some own desktop Linux is reality in China. Thouygh Russia has something like that too on a lesser scale | 21:21 |
| coderus | also fear *russian* Yota Phone 2 :D | 21:22 |
| coderus | lol | 21:22 |
| _inte_ | some russian made/yandex made android version | 21:22 |
| lainwir3d | 1 million !! | 21:22 |
| * lainwir3d hides | 21:22 | |
| _inte_ | seriously? | 21:22 |
| lainwir3d | no | 21:22 |
| lainwir3d | I was bluffing | 21:22 |
| _inte_ | hehe | 21:22 |
| _inte_ | :) | 21:22 |
| _inte_ | i was reloading:) | 21:22 |
| * artemma slaps lainwir3d with.. how was it? My IRC client doesn't have the trout thing | 21:22 | |
| lainwir3d | hehe :) | 21:23 |
| _inte_ | oh funny, in the article yandex mentions they were going to distribute it in ukraine as well:) | 21:23 |
| _inte_ | well, maybe not in whole of ukraine nowadays | 21:24 |
| coderus | _inte_: distribute what? | 21:24 |
| _inte_ | yandex.kit | 21:24 |
| _inte_ | russian android release | 21:24 |
| coderus | never seen that | 21:24 |
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| coderus | new russian android bullshit? | 21:24 |
| coderus | $995,319 | 21:24 |
| Aard | _inte_: halfway done with the discussion about deleting the article. very entertaining | 21:25 |
| artemma | Wasn't that pretty standard Android modification? Maybe a bit more than HTC is doing, but only because of a second screen? | 21:25 |
| _inte_ | kit.yandex.com? | 21:25 |
| * mdxth slaps lainwir3d around a bit with a large trout | 21:25 | |
| _inte_ | there seems to be a russian wikipedia entry https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AF%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81.%D0%9A%D0%B8%D1%82 | 21:25 |
| lainwir3d | 2 millions ! | 21:25 |
| kimmoli | why not with whitefish ? | 21:25 |
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| coderus | artemma: it have *russian* *security* *crypto* *services* :D | 21:25 |
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| _inte_ | but kit.yandex.ru seems dead | 21:26 |
| mdxth | kimmoli, true! I had to google that old trout thingie :) | 21:26 |
| artemma | coderus: to go around US export restrictions for crypto? | 21:26 |
| coderus | artemma: i have no idea, i'm not watching news | 21:26 |
| coderus | just waw some articles | 21:26 |
| coderus | saw* | 21:26 |
| _inte_ | I thought those export restrictions were not in place any longer anyways | 21:26 |
| kimmoli | we have this saying "russian ass-vibrator" | 21:26 |
| Shinryuu | what | 21:27 |
| attah | _inte_: +1 | 21:27 |
| suosaaski | works like a russian ass-vibrator. Doesn't fit your ass and doesn't vibrate. Or something like that. | 21:28 |
| Aard | _inte_: the export restrictions get relaxed, but are still in place | 21:28 |
| coderus | The most awesome Yandex.Kit feature ever: Телефонная книга распознаёт разнообразные формы русских имён (Шурик, Александр, Сашка) | 21:28 |
| coderus | $995,578 | 21:28 |
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| artemma | wow, I would use that! :) | 21:29 |
| M4rtinK | go go go ! | 21:29 |
| _inte_ | ok coderus, that was probably too hard to guess for the most of us:) | 21:29 |
| Aard | _inte_: basically, don't sell crypto to states the US dislikes, and even for selling to law enforcement in states teh US is friendly with you might get into trouble if they want to cause you problems | 21:29 |
| coderus | _inte_: you can eassily translate first part before () | 21:29 |
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| coderus | $996,016 | 21:30 |
| _inte_ | coderus LOL :) | 21:30 |
| _inte_ | THATs a feature:) | 21:30 |
| coderus | because there are a lot of ways you can say russian name and all would be correct (for us) :D | 21:31 |
| _inte_ | Aard: I see | 21:31 |
| coderus | Шурик, Александр, Сашка | 21:31 |
| coderus | both name in al cases :D | 21:31 |
| coderus | all* | 21:31 |
| coderus | $996,265 | 21:31 |
| lainwir3d | $996265 | 21:31 |
| lainwir3d | aaah | 21:31 |
| lainwir3d | too slow | 21:31 |
| _inte_ | coderus: thats all the same name? | 21:31 |
| coderus | _inte_: yep | 21:31 |
| _inte_ | translates to alexander or sasha for me? | 21:31 |
| coderus | _inte_: yep | 21:32 |
| coderus | it's all same name | 21:32 |
| _inte_ | sounds pretty different | 21:32 |
| _inte_ | wow | 21:32 |
| Aard | _inte_: or, in other words, if a US company sells you crypto, assume that US authorities have backdoor access to the international variants | 21:32 |
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| * _inte_ had a russian girlfriend for a quite some time but never heard of that | 21:32 | |
| _inte_ | Aard: yeah | 21:32 |
| _inte_ | has always been that way, even in the old times | 21:33 |
| _inte_ | i remember a german company selling phone encryption 20 y ago | 21:33 |
| coderus | btw, this is most crazy russial bill ever: http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/03/russia-bill-local-data/ | 21:33 |
| Aard | _inte_: as for the alexander/sascha thing, the 'sascha' is a 'short form' of alexander. the russians do that insanity with many names | 21:33 |
| _inte_ | they also had a backdoor build in for authorities | 21:33 |
| coderus | $996,494 | 21:34 |
| _inte_ | Aard: yes ok that is something i actually realised | 21:34 |
| suosaaski | everyone has a backdoor for authorities... | 21:34 |
| _inte_ | lydia, lida... | 21:34 |
| artemma | coderus: to my understanding it's a clone of EU law about personal data. It's just so that additional agreement grants USA special right to handle some EU personal data | 21:34 |
| coderus | omg i have no backdoor for authorities... | 21:34 |
| * coderus going to make one | 21:34 | |
| Aard | suosaaski: not true as such | 21:34 |
| _inte_ | coderus: hehe | 21:34 |
| Aard | _inte_: I have a russian wife. she still thinks it's funny that "sascha" in germany is a separate name | 21:35 |
| artemma | coderus: wait until a bribe is offered! Or some other motivation arrives.. | 21:35 |
| _inte_ | well if you rely on openssl, there you go:) | 21:35 |
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| _inte_ | Aard: :) | 21:36 |
| coderus | Aard: i have russian wife too ;) | 21:36 |
| coderus | oh, i'm from russia myself :D | 21:36 |
| Aard | coderus: big surprise there | 21:36 |
| coderus | :D | 21:36 |
| _inte_ | Aard: So you also know the most beautiful women are from Russia since they did not burn their witches in the ancient times :) | 21:36 |
| _inte_ | hehe | 21:37 |
| Aard | _inte_: not sure if I'd subscribe to that :p | 21:37 |
| coderus | haha you know less about rissians in ancient time, too less :D | 21:37 |
| Acce | 996 514 | 21:37 |
| _inte_ | ;) | 21:37 |
| coderus | there was a lot of witches burried too :D | 21:38 |
| _inte_ | coderus: Alive, I suggest :) | 21:39 |
| coderus | $996,952 | 21:39 |
| coderus | _inte_: exactly | 21:39 |
| lainwir3d | 1 million !!! | 21:39 |
| _inte_ | too early:) | 21:39 |
| kimmoli | its just 794550 € | 21:40 |
| suosaaski | We need to wait until it's 1M€ | 21:40 |
| coderus | $997,161 | 21:40 |
| _inte_ | Well but I also learned that the russian cuisine has strong ties to the french and in fact the food was excellent | 21:41 |
| _inte_ | is that somewhat true at least? | 21:41 |
| _inte_ | :) | 21:41 |
| * Aard can confirm that french food is excellent | 21:41 | |
| lainwir3d | depends | 21:41 |
| lainwir3d | Come eat at home, you'll change opinion on french food | 21:42 |
| Aard | given you manage to order without speaking french :p | 21:42 |
| _inte_ | lainwir3d: frogs? | 21:42 |
| _inte_ | ;) | 21:42 |
| lainwir3d | nah, I don't eat that either | 21:42 |
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| lainwir3d | Tasted it though, honestly it just taste like chicken, so I don't really see a point in eating it :-P | 21:43 |
| _inte_ | yeah | 21:43 |
| _inte_ | btw, cars are said to taste similar to rabbit | 21:44 |
| _inte_ | cats | 21:44 |
| Aard | lainwir3d: in summer of 2013 I went to france for a business trip with a colleague. none of us speaks french, waiters didn't speak anything but french, or at least they refused to. my only phone was a n950 running sailfish, which at that time had broken data roaming -> no online translators. :) | 21:44 |
| Acce | 997 410$ | 21:44 |
| lainwir3d | Aard: well I don't think they refused to | 21:44 |
| lainwir3d | we are quite bad with languages | 21:45 |
| lainwir3d | so it doesn't really surprise me | 21:45 |
| Aard | lainwir3d: well, I did have previous experiences where french were capable of speaking other languages, but refused to unless one of the person present showed off how miserable his french skills are | 21:45 |
| Aard | I don't even have miserable french skills, so couldn't try that option :p | 21:46 |
| lainwir3d | hehe | 21:46 |
| lainwir3d | well I guess it can happen | 21:46 |
| _inte_ | 997898 | 21:46 |
| lainwir3d | but I don't think it's the usual attitude | 21:47 |
| attah | Aard: A teacher of mine instructed the class how to say "i a m a train station" in different languages... just to get around souch events | 21:47 |
| _inte_ | just wanted to contribute:) | 21:47 |
| lainwir3d | hehe | 21:47 |
| _inte_ | may i become a steak, please:) | 21:47 |
| lainwir3d | 998107 | 21:47 |
| coderus | $998,336 | 21:47 |
| Aard | attah: which reminds me of the one time in a train goin gsomewhere between germany and france (crossing the border, usually having either german or french conductors). the conductors are required to speak both languages, but the french conductor refused to speak german to germans | 21:47 |
| kimmoli | i found someone to speak english in Lyon when tried to ask for paper-towel to clean my camera lens, and was replied "elephants are over there" | 21:47 |
| _inte_ | everyone is aiming for the big 1 :) | 21:48 |
| lainwir3d | kimmoli: haha | 21:48 |
| attah | Aard: meh! | 21:48 |
| lainwir3d | $998570 | 21:48 |
| Acce | so close | 21:48 |
| Acce | just 1 500 more, 11 minutes remaining | 21:49 |
| kimmoli | and every shop wanted to use bills <20€, we had only 100€, so went to bank to change it smaller. was replied that it takes 2-3 days | 21:49 |
| lainwir3d | well I can speak english, but if you take me unaware in the street in paris I will litterally bug for a few seconds | 21:49 |
| _inte_ | hehe | 21:49 |
| lainwir3d | few seconds ~few minutes :P | 21:49 |
| lainwir3d | well... whisky time | 21:50 |
| lainwir3d | for the 1 million | 21:50 |
| coderus | $998,610 | 21:50 |
| Aard | lainwir3d: for me it's now the other way round. a while ago the lady at the checkin in helsinki saw my german passport, and started the checkin procedure in germany, and I just went "uh, what did you say?" | 21:50 |
| _inte_ | Ive been to Japan once and there it virtually impossible to find anyone who speaks english | 21:50 |
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| lainwir3d | haha | 21:51 |
| _inte_ | 998893 | 21:51 |
| Aard | _inte_: same in russia, but everyone is proud to tell me they can say "haende hoch!" and "nicht schiessen!" | 21:51 |
| _inte_ | oh sorry 839 | 21:51 |
| lainwir3d | I lived in edinburgh for nearly one year | 21:51 |
| coderus | $998,839 | 21:51 |
| _inte_ | Aard: hehe | 21:51 |
| lainwir3d | when I got back to Paris I kept saying "sorry" to everyone | 21:51 |
| _inte_ | Ive never been to Russia but i might go to elbrus for skiing this winter | 21:51 |
| lainwir3d | oh, and looking at the wrong side of the street when crossing.... fucking dangerous | 21:51 |
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| kimmoli | https://twitter.com/cybette/status/535549929457197056 | 21:52 |
| _inte_ | lainwir3d: you should get used to looking at both sides if you travel through the channel more often | 21:52 |
| _inte_ | lainwir3d: but at least they paint on the streets where to look in uk:) | 21:53 |
| M4rtinK | judging by some of those legendary dashcam videos - I think even looking in both directions might not save you :) | 21:53 |
| Aard | _inte_: already in moscow at the airport a lot of the staff there don't speak english, and it just gets worse from there. I never went more than outside an airport arrival hall without having my wife or a relative accompany me, and have no intention to change that | 21:53 |
| Armadillo | less ten 1000 left | 21:53 |
| Armadillo | then | 21:53 |
| coderus | $999,282 | 21:53 |
| lainwir3d | _inte_: true, and that's a nice thing | 21:53 |
| lainwir3d | that probably saved my life a few times :P | 21:53 |
| Armadillo | 500 | 21:53 |
| JvD_ | close | 21:53 |
| coderus | $999,511 | 21:53 |
| Aard | M4rtinK: my approach at 'long distance car trips' in russia is 'sleep'. then at least I'll go peacefully | 21:54 |
| Tegu | [reload swipe intensifies] | 21:54 |
| _inte_ | hehe :) | 21:54 |
| lainwir3d | 1 million !! | 21:54 |
| lainwir3d | (sorry) | 21:54 |
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| Armadillo | and we have the million! | 21:55 |
| coderus | $1,000,011 | 21:55 |
| Armadillo | great | 21:55 |
| lainwir3d | :) | 21:55 |
| lainwir3d | congrats ! | 21:55 |
| Tegu | woop woop! | 21:55 |
| VDVsx | \o/ | 21:55 |
| JvD_ | \o/ | 21:55 |
| Acce | you're one in a million, once in a lifetime ♪ | 21:55 |
| sledges | hurray!!! | 21:55 |
| Armadillo | :D | 21:55 |
| _inte_ | lol looks like karpovats wanted to be the one to break the million | 21:55 |
| _inte_ | he intentionally contributed 500$ :) | 21:56 |
| attah | nice, now i can sleep in peace | 21:56 |
| lainwir3d | \o/ | 21:56 |
| fignew | I can't wait until my Jolla tablet ships!! :D | 21:56 |
| Tegu | SIP | 21:56 |
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| coderus | and it's not stopping! $1,000,220 | 21:56 |
| lainwir3d | he should have put exactly to get 1million :P | 21:56 |
| lainwir3d | it would have made a nice screenshot | 21:57 |
| Armadillo | _inte_ I think you're right | 21:57 |
| Acce | now wait for 2M$... | 21:57 |
| kimmoli | 300% first.. | 21:57 |
| Tegu | lainwir3d: thought about thay, too, but the timing would be hard-ish | 21:57 |
| lainwir3d | true | 21:57 |
| artemma | a-and real $1M! | 21:59 |
| artemma | Congrats to everybody interested! | 21:59 |
| artemma | ah, you noticed already :) | 21:59 |
| lainwir3d | Marc Dillon : Thank you for supporting openness and people power! #jollahq #sailfishos #onemilliondollars | 22:00 |
| gogeta | congrats ... kudos | 22:00 |
| coderus | and it's still growing! $1,000,698 | 22:00 |
| _inte_ | just great, congrats! | 22:01 |
| M4rtinK | anybody else thinks Soylent Green when reading #PeoplePowered ? :) | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | M4rtinK: no, me too | 22:02 |
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| _inte_ | wow still rising | 22:05 |
| _inte_ | almost 10001000 | 22:06 |
| kimmoli | and it made it before midnight (EEST) | 22:06 |
| _inte_ | sorry 1001000 | 22:06 |
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| _inte_ | kimmoli: yep wouldnt have thought, honestly | 22:06 |
| _inte_ | 1001136 | 22:07 |
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| kimmoli | i was strugling to get my perk through from slush... | 22:07 |
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| coderus | $1,001,136 | 22:08 |
| lainwir3d | 2 millions ! | 22:08 |
| _inte_ | still funny too see most peolple forget to add shipping in the first place:) | 22:08 |
| kimmoli | if you have some dough left, toholeds are still available... | 22:08 |
| _inte_ | lainwir3d: in fact I wonder if it will really reach that height | 22:10 |
| _inte_ | given jolla opens further preorder perks | 22:10 |
| lainwir3d | I'm wondering too | 22:10 |
| lainwir3d | it's slowing too much IMO | 22:10 |
| _inte_ | jep | 22:10 |
| lainwir3d | but well, it might still get some boost once people see it got 1million so fast | 22:11 |
| lainwir3d | it might get them interested | 22:11 |
| Hartzi | link to marc's twitter profile? | 22:11 |
| lainwir3d | sadly, exposition has a lot to do with success :P | 22:11 |
| lainwir3d | Hartzi: https://twitter.com/MarcDillonDotFi | 22:12 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | and if they add more countries | 22:12 |
| Hartzi | lainwir3d: thx | 22:12 |
| M4rtinK | I kinda got the impression that the more Jolla raises the better the tablet will be | 22:13 |
| M4rtinK | :) | 22:13 |
| lainwir3d | or the better the whisky they'll be able to buy | 22:13 |
| lainwir3d | or both | 22:13 |
| _inte_ | Im happy to see there are so many people interested in this project | 22:14 |
| lainwir3d | yeah :) | 22:14 |
| M4rtinK | (so if 1 billion is raised each one will be crafted from a single piece of diamond :) ) | 22:14 |
| lainwir3d | I can't wait to port my apps to the tablet | 22:14 |
| _inte_ | hope Jolla wont break anytime and get sold to... Google/Facebook/Microsoft | 22:14 |
| M4rtinK | mine should work & look very good on it for sure :) | 22:15 |
| lainwir3d | Nokia | 22:15 |
| lainwir3d | :P | 22:15 |
| _inte_ | like what happend to the Oculus rift | 22:15 |
| lainwir3d | M4rtinK: what's yours ? | 22:15 |
| ryukafalz | Oh geez if Jolla got bought by Nokia... XD | 22:15 |
| lainwir3d | that would be bad | 22:15 |
| _inte_ | lainwir3d: well that would at least be the best of those options | 22:15 |
| ryukafalz | it would be full circle | 22:15 |
| lainwir3d | true, the best | 22:16 |
| lainwir3d | but i'd prefer they stay independant | 22:16 |
| _inte_ | well, maybe Jolla buys Nokia in a few years :) | 22:16 |
| ryukafalz | _inte_: Hah, that too :P | 22:16 |
| _inte_ | lainwir3d: me to | 22:16 |
| M4rtinK | lainwir3d: modRana (navigation system) already runs on Sailfish OS | 22:16 |
| lainwir3d | nokia messed up, too late for them. The only way they can gain my support again is by adopting sailfish OS | 22:16 |
| lainwir3d | M4rtinK: oh yeah modrana, i use it | 22:16 |
| _inte_ | M4rtinK: would be cool if Nokia would release HERE for SailfishOS | 22:16 |
| M4rtinK | lainwir3d: Mieru (manga and comic book reader) still needs to be ported - but the Tablet is the final motivation to do that :) | 22:17 |
| _inte_ | they have it for Android and, more important, Tizen already | 22:17 |
| lainwir3d | nice, it would be a nice addition | 22:17 |
| M4rtinK | _inte_: would still be proprietary shit tied to proprietary services and closed data sources :) | 22:17 |
| ryukafalz | M4rtinK: Ooh, I hadn't heard of Mieru | 22:17 |
| M4rtinK | _inte_: might work reasonably good for some time though :) | 22:17 |
| lainwir3d | _inte_: wait, they have it for tizen ? seriously ? | 22:18 |
| lainwir3d | Tizen has what, 0 phones ? | 22:18 |
| _inte_ | for the watch | 22:18 |
| _inte_ | gear s i guess | 22:18 |
| _inte_ | it runs tizen | 22:18 |
| _inte_ | and there is a Here release for it | 22:18 |
| lainwir3d | ... | 22:18 |
| lainwir3d | :'( | 22:18 |
| M4rtinK | ryukafalz: looks like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73907 | 22:18 |
| Aard | M4rtinK: oh, please do. ideally very soon. reading comics is my main usecase of a tablet :p | 22:18 |
| Aard | I'll give you bugreports early on | 22:18 |
| _inte_ | I'd love to see a Stanza-like ebook reader for SFOS | 22:18 |
| lainwir3d | I'll give you virtual cookies | 22:19 |
| _inte_ | mandatory for the tablet | 22:19 |
| M4rtinK | ryukafalz: or https://openrepos.net/content/martink/mieru | 22:19 |
| M4rtinK | ryukafalz: it is Fremantle/Harmattan only at the moment | 22:19 |
| ryukafalz | I primarily used my N7 for manga reading, so it would definitely be great on the tablet :) | 22:19 |
| M4rtinK | Aard: thanks! :) | 22:19 |
| lainwir3d | oh | 22:20 |
| ryukafalz | M4rtinK: Would you be using your cross-platform component thingy for the new UI? :P | 22:20 |
| lainwir3d | indiegogo tweeted | 22:20 |
| lainwir3d | Congrats to @JollaHQ for breaking the $1mil mark in less than two days. #JollaTablet #Unlike #PeoplePowered http://bit.ly/1vpx4nw | 22:20 |
| _inte_ | or maybe calibre | 22:20 |
| M4rtinK | ryukafalz: sure :) | 22:20 |
| lainwir3d | Indiegogo tweet => Congrats to @JollaHQ for breaking the $1mil mark in less than two days. #JollaTablet #Unlike #PeoplePowered http://bit.ly/1vpx4nw | 22:20 |
| lainwir3d | that's nice of them | 22:20 |
| _inte_ | yeah will surely attract some people | 22:21 |
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| M4rtinK | ryukafalz: I have a semi-Android tablet (HP TouchPad) - that was another reason for Universal Components :) | 22:21 |
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| M4rtinK | Aard: BTW, finally got to coding your suggestion for the Fedora installer: https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/anaconda.git/commit/?h=f21-branch&id=6194eaea5ffe7cf484ca63eafb68fa8e33fca3f9 | 22:22 |
| ryukafalz | M4rtinK: Haha, semi-Android... too bad WebOS doesn't use QML too :P | 22:22 |
| dunp | jolla tablet look like luxury.. | 22:22 |
| ryukafalz | I recently had the pleasure of installing Fedora Server, that installer is incredible coming from Ubuntu's | 22:23 |
| M4rtinK | Aard: even managed to get it to Fedora 21 before the freeze - so the next time you install Fedora and the GUI kicks the bucket, you will get some useful hints :D | 22:23 |
| ryukafalz | built-in support for btrfs RAID <3 | 22:23 |
| Aard | nice | 22:23 |
| M4rtinK | ryukafalz: thanks! :) | 22:23 |
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| _inte_ | i cant find that indiegogo tweet | 22:24 |
| M4rtinK | ryukafalz: we support some pretty crazy storage options | 22:24 |
| Aard | next question will be if knowing the reason why it fails will make things better :p | 22:24 |
| ryukafalz | M4rtinK: I did find that my HDD didn't have GRUB installed on it after I was through, but that was probably my own oversight | 22:24 |
| ryukafalz | easy enough to fix | 22:25 |
| M4rtinK | Aard: sure, if we have a bug report with logs attached, we can do something about it :) | 22:25 |
| lainwir3d | M4rtinK: nice, I guess i'll see it soon for fedora 21 release :) | 22:25 |
| Aard | M4rtinK: I meant as in "if the thing not working just makes me give up, while knowing the error gets me drinking not knowing would be better" :p | 22:25 |
| lainwir3d | I need to install it for bluez 5 and BLE. I need to prepare for sailfish bluez 5 migration | 22:25 |
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| ryukafalz | lainwir3d: Wait, bluez 5 on sailfish? | 22:26 |
| M4rtinK | Aard: you can get used to it - we get _all_ bugzilla emails for the Anaconda and related components :) | 22:27 |
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| M4rtinK | Aard: it is more or less like a firehose, but you can get used to it :) | 22:27 |
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| M4rtinK | lainwir3d: let me know if you hit any issues :) | 22:27 |
| Aard | M4rtinK: I'm doing the releases. I'm reading at least a summary of every single change going into a release. there's some weird stuff in there | 22:29 |
| lainwir3d | ryukafalz: I suppose it'll come to this one day or another | 22:30 |
| lainwir3d | if we want Bluetooth LE support | 22:30 |
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| ryukafalz | I've been trying to poke around at the hardware on my N4 with Sailfish re: camera and bluetooth... unfortunately I have little kernel knowledge so the most I can tell is I can't open any of the /dev/video* devices as a camera | 22:31 |
| ryukafalz | lainwir3d: As far as I know you also need it for N4 hardware support | 22:31 |
| lainwir3d | oh | 22:32 |
| dunp | i like oneplus specs. | 22:34 |
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| lainwir3d | well then | 22:41 |
| lainwir3d | good night everyone | 22:42 |
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| ryukafalz | 'night | 22:42 |
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| _inte_ | n8 | 22:43 |
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| calamari | hi | 23:01 |
| calamari | I am considering the Jolla tablet. Can it run xorg? If so, has anyone tried Stellarium? how did it perform? | 23:02 |
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| Morpog_PC | it uses wayland | 23:02 |
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| M4rtinK | XWayland ? :) | 23:05 |
| M4rtinK | IIRC Javispedro got it running on the Jolla phone :) | 23:05 |
| sardini | unrar is not provided with sailfishos ? | 23:05 |
| calamari | I'm not very familiar with Wayland. Does it support regular x apps? | 23:05 |
| sardini | I want to extract .cbr file to read comics | 23:07 |
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| calamari | oh bummer looks like wayland can't run x apps. | 23:09 |
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| M4rtinK | calamari: sure, not natively | 23:10 |
| M4rtinK | calamari: but as far as I know there is XWayland | 23:11 |
| M4rtinK | calamari: which basically spawns a root-less xserver for each X apps you want to run | 23:11 |
| M4rtinK | *app | 23:11 |
| Jettis | calamari android version of stellarium works with jolla if you want to use it | 23:12 |
| calamari | if I was going to do that I would just get an android tablet :) | 23:12 |
| M4rtinK | XWayland is currently not available by default on the Jolla, but there are some community experiments wit enabling it | 23:13 |
| M4rtinK | *with | 23:13 |
| calamari | well, that's sad to hear. maemo had real X which was awesome | 23:13 |
| calamari | thanks for the information! | 23:13 |
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| M4rtinK | calamari: btw there is something about Stellarium & Qt5: http://www.stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Qt5 | 23:14 |
| M4rtinK | Qt 5 supports Wayland, so if Stellarium can be built with it it should work fine | 23:15 |
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| keithzg | X11 is passé anyways ;) | 23:35 |
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| M4rtinK | yeah, but there is still a huge volume of legacy software using it | 23:54 |
| M4rtinK | anything using GTK 2 & Qt 4 for example | 23:54 |
| M4rtinK | it is kinda like DOS Box :) | 23:55 |
| AL13N | don't exaggerate | 23:55 |
| * AL13N is not sure Wayland is the future, but it works well enough | 23:55 | |
| M4rtinK | anyway, good nigh everybody :) | 23:58 |
| M4rtinK | *night | 23:58 |
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