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| RaYmAn | Is there a hard requirement for android 4.2 for porting sailfish? The manual only seems to mention 4.2 - I'm looking into porting to a device where the earliest available is 4.4. | 07:52 |
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| RaYmAn | hm, probably better suited for #sailfishos, nevermind. | 07:53 |
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| xkr47 | good morning | 08:10 |
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| stephg | good morning xkr47 | 08:25 |
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| xkr47 | today I got a sim cutter and converted my mini sim to micro format, and now I can browse the web via mobile network | 08:35 |
| xkr47 | but application installation in "jolla store" still fails | 08:35 |
| Armadillo | I'm cutting my SIMs manually only with a sharp knife | 08:36 |
| Armadillo | works very well :) | 08:36 |
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| xkr47 | :) | 08:36 |
| xkr47 | woo enabling developer mode works now! | 08:36 |
| Armadillo | maybe the store currently has an issue | 08:36 |
| xkr47 | soon I'll be able to check logs maybe! to see what failed/fails | 08:37 |
| Armadillo | this happens sometimes | 08:37 |
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| xkr47 | other people were able to install yesterday when I wasn't | 08:37 |
| Armadillo | also got this error yesterday night | 08:37 |
| xkr47 | bah it failed with "failed to install jolla-developer-mode" | 08:37 |
| Armadillo | yes this needs access to the store | 08:38 |
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| xkr47 | what can I do.. :) | 08:42 |
| warfare | xkr47: Tried a factory reset without jolla account, connect to wifi, add jolla account and then start upgrade? | 08:44 |
| Armadillo | try to delete jolla account and readd it | 08:45 |
| xkr47 | warfare, that worked for you? | 08:45 |
| warfare | xkr47: Yes. | 08:46 |
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| Armadillo | factory should only be the last step if nothing else works ;) | 08:47 |
| Armadillo | +reset | 08:47 |
| warfare | xkr47: https://together.jolla.com/question/62918/updating-a-brand-new-phone-from-10420/ | 08:48 |
| xkr47 | is that your "question" ? | 08:48 |
| warfare | No, the answer ;) | 08:48 |
| xkr47 | ralooyar? | 08:48 |
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| xkr47 | will try | 08:50 |
| xkr47 | I guess I will lose photos etc, so better send them somewhere first | 08:51 |
| Armadillo | did anyone with this problem already try to only delete the Jolla account and add it again | 08:52 |
| Armadillo | ? | 08:52 |
| warfare | Armadillo: yes. Didn't work. Even with reboots in between. | 08:52 |
| Armadillo | good to know | 08:52 |
| xkr47 | I can try that | 08:53 |
| xkr47 | hmm if I factory reset the phone, will it lose all the logs of the failures to install apps from the store? | 08:53 |
| Nicd- | most logs are cleared on reboot anyway | 08:53 |
| xkr47 | it would be nice to have the telemetry so the problem could investigated | 08:54 |
| xkr47 | pkcon log ? | 08:54 |
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| xkr47 | WOHOO factory resetting did the trick! | 10:24 |
| Armadillo | :) | 10:24 |
| Armadillo | congratz | 10:24 |
| chem|st | xkr47: you need to make logs persistent by hand, if you want them after a factoryreset you better use your sdcard for logs | 10:26 |
| xkr47 | now I have installed "Clock" successfully | 10:27 |
| xkr47 | I guess the regular backup tool does not copy such files | 10:27 |
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| chem|st | xkr47: the backuptool doesn't backup... | 10:28 |
| chem|st | the backuptool saves exactly what you check nothing more | 10:29 |
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| chem|st | there is yet to come someone to boost it (thevault) to become a real backup | 10:30 |
| deztructor | chem|st: do you understand backup as file system dump? | 10:32 |
| xkr47 | and now also developer mode enabled, succeeesssss!! | 10:33 |
| xkr47 | thank you all! | 10:33 |
| xkr47 | thank you warfare | 10:33 |
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| Armadillo | deztructor well a backup is a data copy which is stored on another storage unit | 10:34 |
| deztructor | many apps are changing the format of stored data and perform upgrade of the dabatase only during application upgrade itself, so blindly dumping binary data results in issues. I met with this hell on n900 where backup is the binary dump: conversation database was broken and restoring from it results in broken data coming back :p No way to repair... | 10:35 |
| xkr47 | is this the main source for sailfishos apps etc? https://github.com/sailfishos | 10:35 |
| chem|st | deztructor: nope, at least not on a phone - and I did not mean to offend you! | 10:35 |
| Armadillo | with the backup tool you can create data copies, but it can not copy them to an external storage, as I understood this | 10:36 |
| chem|st | Armadillo: backup has integrated save to sdcard | 10:36 |
| deztructor | Armadillo, chem|st: there is a task in queue to backup directly to sd card if the card exists | 10:37 |
| Armadillo | now I'm confused :D | 10:37 |
| Nicd- | xkr47: what do you mean? | 10:37 |
| deztructor | it is quite easy to implement on the middleware level but UI changes are more tricky (to ask user for each different card, to allow to move backup storage from internal memory etc.) | 10:38 |
| Nicd- | xkr47: that repo has the sailfish os specific open source stuff made by jolla afaik | 10:38 |
| Armadillo | deztructor sure | 10:38 |
| chem|st | deztructor: what people complain about the most are that settings and installed apps (in terms of what had I installed) are not in the backup | 10:38 |
| xkr47 | Nicd-, ok.. how about apps like "settings", "jolla store" etc ? | 10:38 |
| xkr47 | Nicd-, are any of those open? | 10:38 |
| Nicd- | xkr47: most of them are not open source. as you can see the browser is there as it is open source | 10:38 |
| xkr47 | Nicd- so all open components are in that github organization? | 10:39 |
| deztructor | chem|st: this is about security: the most interesting part to store are wlan passwords and there should be a way to encrypt this data and on the other hand to make it simple for user | 10:39 |
| xkr47 | I just felt like contributing.. :) | 10:39 |
| chem|st | deztructor: agreed | 10:39 |
| Nicd- | xkr47: don't know if it's all but looks like it's most of the sailfish specific stuff. nemo stuff is in nemomobile repos | 10:39 |
| deztructor | while advanced users can remember passwords :) most users will use bad passwords or forget 'em :) | 10:40 |
| Armadillo | simple and secure is always a problem | 10:40 |
| Armadillo | just look at Whatsapp :x | 10:40 |
| chem|st | deztructor: default passwords on the back of their router... | 10:40 |
| chem|st | xkr47: thevault is not in that repo deztructor can point you to it | 10:41 |
| xkr47 | Nicd- does the jolla phone come with preinstalled nemo apps ? | 10:41 |
| deztructor | so, password should be generated from several pieces, e.g. lock code, jolla password, pin code (so, user can decrypt it also w/o jolla phone) | 10:41 |
| xkr47 | chem|st, what's in thevault? | 10:41 |
| Nicd- | xkr47: no, it uses some nemo middleware | 10:41 |
| chem|st | xkr47: that is the backup app of sailfishos | 10:41 |
| deztructor | xkr47: ui nemo apps: fingerterm is nemo app | 10:42 |
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| xkr47 | ok | 10:59 |
| xkr47 | interesting, some settings are slightly different after factory reset | 10:59 |
| xkr47 | default shortcuts are gone | 10:59 |
| xkr47 | and "enable swipe closing" changed to off | 10:59 |
| chem|st | xkr47: there are no default shortcuts^^ | 10:59 |
| Teemu | there is no cabal | 11:00 |
| Wnt | xkr47: "Swipe to close gesture available as a setting and disabled by default for new users" https://together.jolla.com/question/38508/release-notes-software-version-10516-paarlampi/ | 11:01 |
| xkr47 | chem|st there were three when I got the phone.. :O :) | 11:02 |
| AL13N_work | xkr47: i had noticed that too | 11:02 |
| xkr47 | well anyway :) | 11:02 |
| xkr47 | happy camper I am | 11:02 |
| Wnt | the first release had fixed items in the lock screen pulley menu | 11:02 |
| xkr47 | aha | 11:02 |
| Wnt | after upgrading to later releases the fixed items were removed and now they are instead customizable via settings | 11:03 |
| Wnt | 1.0.7.16, Saapunki was the first one to feature the customizable shortcuts: https://together.jolla.com/question/45064/release-notes-software-version-10716-saapunki/ | 11:04 |
| Teemu | 1.0.8.21 is how new? | 11:06 |
| tadzik | not :) | 11:06 |
| Nicd- | I think disabling the close gesture by default was a really stupid decision | 11:08 |
| Teemu | so i'd have to enable dev mode to get a new one | 11:09 |
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| xkr47 | is the proper way to power off to press the power button, wait 5 seconds until the phone gives a buzz, fades to the "jolla" logo and shuts down ? | 11:14 |
| Nicd- | yes | 11:15 |
| xkr47 | I think before the 1.0.4 -> 1.0.8 upgrade the wait was just 2 seconds or so | 11:15 |
| Wnt | Stskeeps: are you Jolla guys aware that the Maps doesn't get automatically updated to the version that features the new map overlays? "satellite, car (daylight mode), transit (public transport) and night mode" | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | Aard: ^ | 11:16 |
| Nicd- | maps is the only jolla app which I have updated through the app store | 11:17 |
| Aard | Wnt: you should get offered it through the store, though | 11:17 |
| Wnt | there are few comments in the store about users having to uninstall & reinstall the maps application to get the newest version | 11:17 |
| Wnt | Aard: I'm running uitukka and for store shows "Version 1.0.3 Installed 1.0.13" | 11:18 |
| Wnt | and no upgrades available in the store | 11:18 |
| Aard | xfade_: ^^ | 11:19 |
| Nicd- | maybe 1.0.3 is the pre-uitukka version? | 11:19 |
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| xkr47 | Nicd-, how do you update the other apps? | 11:19 |
| Nicd- | xkr47: what other apps? | 11:19 |
| Nicd- | I have "Version 1.0.3 Installed 1.0.22.3" | 11:20 |
| Nicd- | for maps | 11:20 |
| Wnt | xkr47: if there are updates available you get a system notification | 11:20 |
| Wnt | selecting that notification forwards the user to the store applications intalled applications page | 11:20 |
| Wnt | that lists available upgrades at the top of the app list | 11:21 |
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| xkr47 | ok! | 11:22 |
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| Wnt | Aard: here is the output of pkcon search name sailfish-maps http://paste.kde.org/pg2alta15 | 11:28 |
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| Wnt | is there a --dry-run or --pretend option for pkcon? | 11:33 |
| Wnt | if I would only like to know which pakages a install or upgrade operation would install and upgrade | 11:34 |
| Nicd- | apparently not. but you could install zypper | 11:35 |
| Nicd- | it probably has something like that | 11:35 |
| Wnt | or does pkcon always prompt the user with "The following packages have to be installed:" "Proceed with changes? [N/y]" | 11:37 |
| Wnt | or only when it's pulling some additional dependencies | 11:38 |
| Wnt | seems tat it's only doing the "Proceed?" prompt when the operation pulls in depencies | 11:39 |
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| Wnt | interasting, zypper does list the sailfish-maps update: http://paste.kde.org/ps2kmxcj5#line-10 | 11:42 |
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| Wnt | but in Store -> My apps the "Update all" is inactive and there are no updateable applications listed | 11:44 |
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| warfare | mh, is there any way to renew a dhcp lease on sailfish? | 12:00 |
| phaeron | Wnt: what is the update version you are on ? | 12:08 |
| xkr47 | ?? the phone connected to the internet by itself and now suddenly gave a popup offering some ambience | 12:12 |
| PeperJohnny | xkr47: normal behaviour if you put on a toh from jolla. At least the second part | 12:13 |
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| xkr47 | aah :D | 12:17 |
| xkr47 | I had the back cover off when I turned it on | 12:18 |
| Sail0r | I wonder how Jolla would survive does tests http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/HP-Security-Research-Blog/Mobile-Pwn2Own-2014-The-day-one-recap/ba-p/6669592 | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | i'd love them to try. | 12:21 |
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| Wnt | phaeron: SailfishOS 1.1.0.39 (Uitukka) | 12:28 |
| phaeron | Wnt: can you pastebin output of ssu lr please ? | 12:28 |
| Wnt | sure, http://paste.kde.org/pxdzplgms | 12:29 |
| phaeron | nothing seems wrong there | 12:32 |
| AL13N_work | Stskeeps: would be nice, indeed | 12:32 |
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| Wnt | I tried to get the console output of store-client to see if it would spit out something useful, but it seems to be pretty hard to launch it so that it doesn't invalidate the Jolla user account that is defined in settings | 12:34 |
| phaeron | Wnt: anything it spits out would be in the journal | 12:35 |
| Wnt | phaeron: so it would be in the output of "journalctl -f -a"? | 12:35 |
| phaeron | yes, usually -b also if you have persistent journal | 12:36 |
| Wnt | "journalctl -f -a" didn't have anything interesting | 12:36 |
| Wnt | then I got bored and upgraded the maps application using zypper | 12:36 |
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| Wnt | what does the http://jolla.com/the-other-half-specification-community-license mean when it comes to sharing a modified version of the TOH 3D model? Can I for example share it on GitHub using this license? http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ | 13:17 |
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| Wnt | I modified the JOLLA_THE_OTHER_HALF_101213.stl to be more easily 3D printed and would like to share the modified model | 13:19 |
| Wnt | the modified version has a flat, thinner backside and thicker edges among other changes | 13:22 |
| Wnt | so my Jolla is now 0.45mm thinner than with the original other half :) | 13:23 |
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| tadzik | nice :) | 14:38 |
| ar | hi. is it possible to make a backup on one jolla and restore it on another? | 14:38 |
| SK_work | ar: it should work if nothing conflicts | 14:39 |
| ar | the backup is saved on sd card? how do i proceed after creating a backup? | 14:40 |
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| ar | oh, nvm, found it | 14:47 |
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| chem|st | ar: it is a limited backup, make sure you have everything from /home you need | 14:52 |
| ar | yeah, but it backups most of the stuff that is annoying to backup | 14:53 |
| ar | i can copy music and ssh keys myself | 14:53 |
| chem|st | and dot files^^ | 14:54 |
| chem|st | I rsynced everything, but when I got it back from care I had a hard time to apply it again | 14:54 |
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| ar | hm | 15:05 |
| ar | my new jolla doesn't show that there are any updates available. it shipped with 1.0.4.20 and i have 10.0.8.21 on my old one | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | factory reset and try again? | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | some people have had issues with 0.4.20 for whatever reason | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | i guess we're starting to see people who have 1.0.4.* factory devices | 15:07 |
| ar | yeah, it was manufactured in march 2014 | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | also, make sure to log in with jolla account | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | at startup | 15:08 |
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| ar | i need to login before i check for updates? | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | it may get in a bit of a bad state | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | otherwise | 15:08 |
| Morpog_PC | OMG OMG OMG | 15:09 |
| Morpog_PC | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2aSECcCUAA4zIQ.jpg | 15:10 |
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| Morpog_PC | :) | 15:10 |
| ggabriel | hahaha | 15:10 |
| ggabriel | and what would that be? | 15:10 |
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| SK_work | Morpog_PC: jolla.com :) | 15:10 |
| SK_work | ggabriel: big = tablet for me | 15:11 |
| SK_work | but people on #jollatohkbd think it is Jolla 2 phone | 15:11 |
| ln- | a jolla running windows phone 7 | 15:11 |
| VDVsx | wp10 cmon :P | 15:11 |
| ar | Jolla running WindowsMobile 6.5 | 15:11 |
| gexc | looks a bit dull if it would be jolla2 :-/ | 15:11 |
| Scelt | ar: https://together.jolla.com/question/62918/updating-a-brand-new-phone-from-10420/ | 15:12 |
| Morpog_PC | 5" Jolla? | 15:12 |
| ar | or maybe a thinner jolla with no support for otherhalves and updated hardware (octacore exynos?) | 15:12 |
| ln- | ar: would that qualify as "BIG"? | 15:13 |
| ar | maybe | 15:14 |
| gexc | cheap and BIG lol | 15:14 |
| gexc | low end model? | 15:14 |
| * Morpog_PC imagines his Jolla1 with TOHKBD to hack at home and sleek Jolla 2 outside :D | 15:14 | |
| ar | also, a new device would be quite ironic, for me at least, as i just got a replacement for my old jolla on which i have a shattered screen | 15:15 |
| SK_work | ar: no exynos (samsung stuff) | 15:15 |
| SK_work | I hope: more powerful cores, more ram (3 Gig to be sure, this time), and better screen with LPM please | 15:16 |
| gexc | 'true octacore' mtk :-/ | 15:16 |
| SK_work | nothing else | 15:16 |
| SK_work | hope same size | 15:16 |
| SK_work | compatibility with current TOH is a plus | 15:16 |
| gexc | and curved. glass. | 15:16 |
| * gexc is missing his N9 | 15:17 | |
| Morpog_PC | give me ram Joanna, RAM Joanna | 15:17 |
| SK_work | gexc: N9 is not really curved | 15:17 |
| gexc | whatever that's called lol | 15:18 |
| ar | SK_work: "LPM"? | 15:18 |
| gexc | just for easy side swipe | 15:18 |
| SK_work | ar: LPM | 15:19 |
| SK_work | Low power mode | 15:19 |
| SK_work | N9's "always on screen" | 15:19 |
| ar | i don't really remember that. i never had an N9 | 15:19 |
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| ar | does it make it black&white and without backlight, but good reflectivity? | 15:19 |
| pdanek | Live Partition Mobility | 15:20 |
| gexc | oled screen with only a few pixels powered | 15:20 |
| ar | hehe | 15:20 |
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| Morpog_PC | oled doesn't have a backlight | 15:22 |
| eyea_UK | Jolla )0!1@ yoh | 15:22 |
| Morpog_PC | and doesn't need one | 15:22 |
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| Morpog_PC | I guess it'S a tablet, jaakko roppola's UI blog had a few hints about how Sailfish UI works on a tablet | 15:24 |
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| ar | or maybe a bigger (6") phone? | 15:24 |
| SK_work | eyea_UK: ==> jolla.com | 15:24 |
| SK_work | Morpog_PC: indeed | 15:25 |
| SK_work | however, nothing on nemo mobile repos | 15:25 |
| SK_work | I spotted no interesting commit | 15:25 |
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| SK_work | do lipstick need to be updated / enhanced for multi-app display for example ? | 15:25 |
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| gexc | hope they put a strong vibrator in it if it is a tablet | 15:27 |
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| gexc | could the image be only the 'phone half'? | 15:29 |
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| Morpog_PC | guys check the blog out: http://jaakkoroppola.blogspot.fi/2014/10/multi-touch-and-bigger-screens.html | 15:29 |
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| pdanek | Well, the article touches the multi-touch subject. | 15:33 |
| pdanek | Why Sailfish zooms with 2 fingers? It's so annoying. Why isn't old N900 way kept? (circle right or left to zoom in or out) | 15:33 |
| marinaio | he wrote "Note that this has nothing to do with Jolla." though | 15:33 |
| Morpog_PC | pdanek, because 99% of smartphone users do zoom with 2 fingers | 15:33 |
| pdanek | Morpog_PC: Jolla is unlike | 15:34 |
| pdanek | :D | 15:34 |
| Morpog_PC | marinaio, sure, he had to write that back then to not spoil any fun :D | 15:34 |
| SK_work | marinaio, but the interactions described in article looks like those on a Jolla | 15:34 |
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| deztructor | pdanek: e.g. it can clash with some web ui actions using fingers: legal "take and drag" movement, or it can be used to draw or in online games | 15:41 |
| deztructor | also it requires fine motor skill - hard for many people and in some conditions | 15:43 |
| deztructor | on N900 it was done in this way mostly because N900 had resistive touch screen w/o multitouch support | 15:44 |
| TemeV | that N900 way doesn't sound intuitive | 15:45 |
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| TemeV | why would drawing a circle make things bigger/smaller | 15:45 |
| friese | so - just checked my twitter ;) any guesses on the big thing? Kinda looks like a TOH to me (but could also be a battery - maybe one with extra capacity) | 15:45 |
| warfare | And you always got the gesture wrong... | 15:45 |
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| Sail0r | ui http://www.jollausers.com/2014/11/jolla-the-countdown-to-something-big-begins-now/ | 15:46 |
| Morpog_PC | A tablet with SailfishOS could attract all those people that waited for Vivaldi | 15:46 |
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| SK_work | Morpog_PC: is there that much people ? :) | 15:47 |
| Morpog_PC | put nemomobile on it and tada, an open source tablet | 15:47 |
| SK_work | it could attract people looking for less closed source | 15:47 |
| SK_work | ie me | 15:47 |
| SK_work | Morpog_PC: or put some plasma active | 15:47 |
| SK_work | :) | 15:47 |
| Morpog_PC | well, I hope so :D at least it had KDE community behind it | 15:47 |
| SK_work | Morpog_PC: or some nemo tablet edition | 15:47 |
| Morpog_PC | Glacier-UI tablet edition | 15:47 |
| Morpog_PC | hurry up locusf :D | 15:48 |
| SK_work | yep | 15:48 |
| locusf | Morpog_PC: nemo already runs on a tablet | 15:48 |
| TemeV | SK_work: it could attract people looking for tablet with proper linux, i.e. me :) | 15:48 |
| Morpog_PC | locusf, I know | 15:48 |
| SK_work | TemeV: and me :) | 15:48 |
| locusf | Morpog_PC: also glacier :) | 15:49 |
| Morpog_PC | note the tablet edition I added ;) | 15:49 |
| Sail0r | or jolla2 ;) | 15:52 |
| Sail0r | with corei7 and 1tb ssd | 15:52 |
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| Morpog_PC | SK_work, could it be in a x86 fork and that thing is powered by some new atom? You know the ones which get susidized by intel? | 15:55 |
| Morpog_PC | subsidized | 15:55 |
| SK_work | Morpog_PC: no atom please: it adds mess | 15:55 |
| SK_work | it could | 15:55 |
| SK_work | but that would be bad/sad | 15:55 |
| Morpog_PC | those new atoms are quite good | 15:55 |
| SK_work | Morpog_PC: it is arch wise | 15:56 |
| pdanek | TemeV: becuase drawing he circle allows you to precisely zoom in/out with 1 finger | 15:56 |
| SK_work | do you see Jolla maintaining two arches ? | 15:56 |
| pdanek | currently I need 2 fingers | 15:56 |
| SK_work | plus devs doing so ? | 15:56 |
| SK_work | as well as aliendalvik team ? | 15:56 |
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| TemeV | pdanek: it doesn't make it _intuitive_ | 15:58 |
| Morpog_PC | maybe some super secret team and thats why last updates all were not on time because they had to priotitize manpower on the tablet and other arch? | 15:58 |
| SK_work | Morpog_PC: last updates were not on time because they were in vacation :P | 15:59 |
| SK_work | and because of Qt 5.2 :( | 16:00 |
| Morpog_PC | "vacation" is a codeword for doing work on the tablet :D | 16:00 |
| SK_work | Morpog_PC: don't think Stskeeps would agree with you :) | 16:00 |
| Morpog_PC | hehe :D | 16:00 |
| TemeV | maybe Stskeeps didn't know, because this is super secret :) | 16:01 |
| lainwir3d | damn, it does look like a screen on the image | 16:02 |
| Morpog_PC | I'm sure stskeeps picked the hardware for it :D | 16:03 |
| marinaio | a screen with no bezels? :O | 16:03 |
| Morpog_PC | and hopefully avoided btrfs this time :D | 16:03 |
| lainwir3d | bezwhat ? | 16:03 |
| gexc | screen could be smaller than the glass | 16:04 |
| gexc | just like the current one | 16:05 |
| lainwir3d | what is a bezel ? :/ | 16:05 |
| Morpog_PC | wasted space around screen | 16:05 |
| SK_work | TemeV: well, I guess Stskeeps knows everything that is supersecret :) | 16:05 |
| SK_work | Morpog_PC: btrfs is not ... that ... bad | 16:06 |
| lainwir3d | anyway, I can't manage to concentrate anymore on my work now. Thanks Jolla ! | 16:06 |
| SK_work | lainwir3d: +1 | 16:06 |
| Morpog_PC | SK_work, well, yeah on not so ancient kernel maybe :D | 16:06 |
| coderus | nemomobile have something similar with libupnp? | 16:06 |
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| * Stskeeps looks at beer and candy and is going on a train soon | 16:07 | |
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| Morpog_PC | Stskeeps must have a great pokerface in that train | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | i camuflage as a hobo. | 16:08 |
| SK_work | Morpog_PC: say thank you to qualcomm | 16:09 |
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| Morpog_PC | I know | 16:10 |
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| lainwir3d | a coworker was going to buy a jolla tonight / tomorrow | 16:14 |
| lainwir3d | now he doesn't want to | 16:14 |
| falfa | The speaker in my Jolla stopped working | 16:14 |
| lainwir3d | He might loose his voucher :P | 16:14 |
| falfa | Today i dropped the jolla in the floor at the subway, now the speaker is functional again | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | problem solved | 16:14 |
| falfa | agreed | 16:14 |
| falfa | at least for now | 16:15 |
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| Morpog_PC | quickl made mockup: http://abload.de/img/mockupq6r13.png | 16:25 |
| Morpog_PC | quikly | 16:25 |
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| lainwir3d | infinite size tablet ! awesome ! | 16:28 |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 16:28 |
| * lainwir3d can't concentrate anymore | 16:28 | |
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| lainwir3d | I would have prefered they said nothing before wednesday. | 16:30 |
| lainwir3d | The waiting is horrible | 16:30 |
| forgrimm | :D | 16:30 |
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| Tegu | yea, they should have done a surprise attack | 16:31 |
| Tegu | or... s/should/could/ | 16:32 |
| cb400f | it's gutsy ;-) ... it'd better really be BIG(!) or people will be disappointed :-) | 16:33 |
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| SK_work | cb400f: big in which sense ? | 16:34 |
| SK_work | hope not too big: it has to fit in hands | 16:34 |
| attah | that announcement seems like the perfect birthday present :D | 16:34 |
| cb400f | in the sense that it'll interest/benefit very large parts of the community directly :-) | 16:34 |
| * cb400f got the tohkbd kickstarter for _his_ birthday ;-) | 16:35 | |
| cb400f | + an opensuse release ;-) | 16:35 |
| attah | cb400f: not bad ;) | 16:35 |
| cb400f | and a keira black TOH | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | lifesize wax model of marc dillon for everybody | 16:35 |
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| cb400f | though I were given the keira black TOH a few days before actually | 16:36 |
| lainwir3d | Stskeeps: hahaha, nice :D | 16:36 |
| attah | Stskeeps: well, i do need to decorate my livingroom a bit more.. laser cutter apparently doesn't count as art | 16:37 |
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| kimmoli | wax model of Marc with frikin laser attached to head ? | 16:38 |
| attah | hmmm :) | 16:39 |
| kimmoli | do wax and lasers mix? | 16:39 |
| cb400f | :-) | 16:39 |
| attah | melt, mix.. same thing | 16:39 |
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| Tegu | maybe it's a TV. that would be BIG at least | 16:41 |
| cb400f | maybe Jolla acquired Nokia ;-) | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | attah: replace the david hasselhof one | 16:42 |
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| Tegu | or an all-in-one PC with sailfish | 16:42 |
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| attah | Stskeeps: nah, i think they'll get along just fine | 16:43 |
| kimmoli | whole weekend goes guessing | 16:43 |
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| Tegu | or a tabletop touch pc | 16:43 |
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| attah | oh yeah.. i almost forgot.. kimmoli, I have an indea | 16:44 |
| kimmoli | nah, new jolla dishware set | 16:44 |
| attah | ir multi-remote TOH | 16:45 |
| kimmoli | that in the pic is the square pizza-stone | 16:45 |
| Tegu | the dishware set would a_awesome_ | 16:45 |
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| Tegu | and BIG | 16:45 |
| attah | didn't e talk about finnish pizza? mämmi, pinapple, and what else? | 16:45 |
| kimmoli | attah: that TOH has been scetched already | 16:45 |
| attah | kimmoli: oh well, late to the party as always | 16:46 |
| kimmoli | kinkku-ananas | 16:46 |
| lainwir3d | or.. a phatelevision | 16:46 |
| lainwir3d | phone / television | 16:46 |
| lainwir3d | it's BUG | 16:46 |
| lainwir3d | big* | 16:46 |
| lainwir3d | or maybe it's juste another color TOH | 16:47 |
| lainwir3d | but it won't be big.. | 16:47 |
| Tegu | no, what if it really is a BUG | 16:47 |
| kimmoli | hmm... jolla-fork, for serious github users ? | 16:47 |
| Morpog_PC | its a tablet sized smartwatch, instant win for display size on smartwatches for the next few years :D | 16:47 |
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| kimmoli | need 2 wrists to carry it ? | 16:48 |
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| Morpog_PC | just one big ugly ulrawrist | 16:48 |
| Morpog_PC | TM | 16:48 |
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| Tegu | kimmoli: nah, it bends instead | 16:49 |
| lainwir3d | haha | 16:49 |
| Morpog_PC | instant win on bend contests? | 16:49 |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 16:49 |
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| cb400f | a Jolla tablet for christmas would be perfect timing, when my current newspaper subscription expires I'd like to go digital, but that requires a non-evil tablet | 16:53 |
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| Morpog_PC | but what do I do with my old tablet | 16:53 |
| lainwir3d | well, I agree I would finally be interested by a tablet. | 16:53 |
| Morpog_PC | I gifted my old old tablet to my sister the last time :D | 16:53 |
| lainwir3d | Morpog_PC: do you have another sister ? | 16:53 |
| Morpog_PC | nope (thank god) | 16:54 |
| lainwir3d | haha | 16:54 |
| Morpog_PC | damn I always need to leave for social life stuff when something interesting happens on the internet :D | 16:55 |
| Morpog_PC | cya laters | 16:55 |
| ggabriel | uhm... i don't like tablets | 16:55 |
| ggabriel | but i'd get one off jolla anyway as a contribution | 16:55 |
| ggabriel | not sure what i'd use it for | 16:55 |
| SK_work | I tried several tablets | 16:56 |
| SK_work | at the end I want a phone ... | 16:56 |
| SK_work | tablets are fun though | 16:56 |
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| cb400f | hm.. I get tons of documents, pdfs, blogs, websites etc. that I'd like to read, but never get it done cuz the pc is not comfortable enough, and the phone is too small... the e-book reader didn't work well with documents either... hope a tablet would work | 16:57 |
| kimmoli | i have tried few tablets, also cheap-china stuff, but never really found any use for them | 16:58 |
| Pilke | bigger screen to play siika is enough reason to have Sailfish tablet | 16:58 |
| kimmoli | o/ | 16:58 |
| ggabriel | umm | 16:58 |
| SK_work | tablets are nice for youtube on the bed | 16:58 |
| ggabriel | tidings is 'nuff for reading stuff | 16:58 |
| kimmoli | hmm... could make TOH to "join" 3 jolla to one -> tablet ? | 16:59 |
| cb400f | yep, for a tablet I'd only need a browser, feed reader, e-book reader, document viewer, e-mail client and video player | 16:59 |
| Tegu | haa :D | 16:59 |
| ggabriel | hw kbd to control the tablet | 16:59 |
| ggabriel | (instead of an additional bt kbd) | 16:59 |
| SK_work | cb400f: same | 16:59 |
| SK_work | what really need improvement on SFOS is the browser though | 17:00 |
| ggabriel | well, the code is out there... | 17:00 |
| SK_work | ggabriel: I would prefer not using gecko :) | 17:00 |
| ggabriel | and tbh, it works better than chrome/ff on android for the websites i visit | 17:00 |
| ggabriel | SK_work: webcat? | 17:00 |
| SK_work | ggabriel: I do think that many stuff are related to gecko | 17:00 |
| SK_work | ggabriel: meh | 17:00 |
| SK_work | I'm thinking of qtwebengine custom build :) | 17:00 |
| SK_work | will dothis at some point :) | 17:00 |
| ggabriel | happy to have n options tbh | 17:01 |
| cb400f | browser works fine for me.. with the exception of ghostery, adblock+ or similar easily available | 17:01 |
| ggabriel | same in desktop | 17:01 |
| kimmoli | only thing i hate browsing is badly designed mobile webpages | 17:02 |
| kimmoli | which you cant force to desktop page, can't zoom/pan | 17:02 |
| ggabriel | ...or the other way around: sometimes the mobile page is best | 17:03 |
| ggabriel | without so many ads etc :) | 17:03 |
| * cb400f wonders if the tohkbd 100 € discount code would be applicable on a tablet ;-) | 17:05 | |
| * SK_work too | 17:05 | |
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| cb400f | hm... still more than 4 days... think that counter is broken ;-) | 17:15 |
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| ggabriel | i estimate that the time difference between announcement and availability will be >6 months anyway | 17:16 |
| Tegu | yea.. | 17:18 |
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| pdanek | kimmoli: "wax model of Marc with frikin laser attached to head" oh :D we all want that, right? :D | 18:50 |
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| Teemu | laaaazers! yai! | 18:52 |
| Teemu | sharks too? | 18:52 |
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| pdanek | Teemu: They're extinct in my dimension. | 18:53 |
| pdanek | Interdimensional Relay Chat | 18:53 |
| Teemu | :) | 18:55 |
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| Teemu | i've been on irc now for twentysome years more or less continuously and can clearly remember when there was only the irc network that didn't need a name | 18:56 |
| pdanek | Ou. | 18:56 |
| Teemu | suddenly a split happened and now we have multidimensional space of orthogonal irc networks | 18:57 |
| pdanek | I'm noob then. | 18:57 |
| pdanek | Yep :D | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | i once made software that ran 83% of all irc networks. | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | then i got bored and decided to revolutionize mobile linux | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:57 |
| Tegu | o_o | 18:57 |
| Tegu | nice | 18:57 |
| Teemu | i'm about to revolutionize how we all use electricity at buildings | 18:58 |
| netzvieh | 83%? why not 95%? :P | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | https://forums.unrealircd.org/viewtopic.php?t=5701 | 18:58 |
| netzvieh | seems you could've done better | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 18:58 |
| Teemu | carsten is a good name | 18:59 |
| pdanek | Sadly, I still use a shitty Pidgin for IRC. | 18:59 |
| Tegu | just happened to see this when browsing bash.org randomly http://www.bash.org/?58108 | 18:59 |
| Stskeeps | jarkko worked in nokia for a while, he's now at google i think | 19:00 |
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| tigeli | yes, he was at google the last time I checked | 19:00 |
| Teemu | Tegu: :D muahhhh | 19:00 |
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| Tegu | I wonder if there is a way to see the quote dates.. | 19:02 |
| tigeli | I hope not :D | 19:02 |
| Teemu | btw if there are any odenmaa region hackers around, I'd like to point out that Helsinki Hacklab has moved to Pitäjänmäki | 19:02 |
| tigeli | Tegu: I would not want to find my quotes from '95 :D | 19:03 |
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| Tegu | :D | 19:03 |
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| chem|st | fscking hell jolla2 to be announced and I am on vacation... offshore... | 19:20 |
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| Teemu | at your secret offshore venture tax haven | 19:20 |
| Teemu | luckily the interweb tubes connection seems to work so you can order the next one | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | one of mitt romney's cayman islands offshore companies were called 'jolla', as a rather fun note | 19:21 |
| tigeli | chem|st: you could cancel your vacation :D | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | from what i recall | 19:21 |
| chem|st | tigeli: 10MB roaming have to be enough! | 19:22 |
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| chem|st | Stskeeps: will it be announcement only? | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | what, offshore company? | 19:23 |
| chem|st | lol | 19:23 |
| chem|st | jolla has set a timer with a corner of a 3D rendered phone... and you ask what I am talking | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | it's friday at 8pm, i'm officially off work :P | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | dead tired after two weekends with one talk in each | 19:24 |
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| chem|st | Stskeeps: have a beer? | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | already had | 19:24 |
| chem|st | ;) | 19:24 |
| tigeli | it's aeroplane | 19:24 |
| chem|st | something big, could be a tablet^^ | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | tigeli: hah, i'd buy a jolla aeroplane.. industrial design with martin's touches | 19:25 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | 60" tv | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | shiny(TM) | 19:25 |
| Teemu | Shiny, with Bells, Gongs and a Whistle, perhaps? | 19:25 |
| tigeli | Stskeeps: with connman? ;) | 19:25 |
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| tigeli | Stskeeps: connectivity between air traffic control and the plane :) | 19:26 |
| tigeli | hmm, luckily it's friday | 19:26 |
| * Stskeeps passes tigeli a beer | 19:27 | |
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| Stskeeps | https://twitter.com/YvesPE/status/411281223290339328 - now that's a plane i'd want | 19:29 |
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| kimmoli | this seems to be default in unreal conf file /* don't ban stskeeps */ | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | uhhuh | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | invicible. well. back on that isp. | 19:41 |
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| Stskeeps | you learn the hard way nobody edits the default configs. | 19:42 |
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| Shinryuu | hiue | 19:55 |
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| Teemu | :D | 19:56 |
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| mornfall | oh wait, is the announcement going to be a jolla2? | 20:25 |
| mornfall | don't kid me :P | 20:25 |
| Teemu | could be or not could be, that is the question | 20:25 |
| mornfall | tablet, on the other hand :-) | 20:25 |
| mornfall | well, I guess everyone noticed that the pic isn't really a booklet | 20:25 |
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| Teemu | it could be a floor tile! | 20:27 |
| Tegu | that would be fabulous! | 20:27 |
| silver_hook | …or a charging pad. | 20:28 |
| mornfall | I sure as hell hope it's not an android device :P | 20:28 |
| mornfall | I can live with that :-) | 20:28 |
| silver_hook | BTW, the lucky ones among you who already have one …does by any chance the battery look like that? | 20:28 |
| Tegu | hm yea.. blah. also someone guessed a spare battery earlier :P | 20:28 |
| silver_hook | Tegu: Oh, sorry. Didn’t see it. | 20:29 |
| Tegu | I wouldn't have a countdown for a spare battery | 20:29 |
| silver_hook | Huge rubber in a nice black metal/plastic casing. | 20:29 |
| Tegu | silver_hook: didn't even notice your latest message before sending thatt :D | 20:29 |
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| silver_hook | Tegu: Haha, great minds think alike etc ;) | 20:30 |
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| Tegu | reminds me of some donald duck story where Scrooge and and Rockerduck developed batteries for shoes. they had things like backback batteries and even irships carrying a battery. jolla could have something similar :) it would be BIG | 20:35 |
| Teemu | oh fsck | 20:36 |
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| Teemu | i just noticed there's a breadboard other half | 20:37 |
| silver_hook | Teemu: Cool, innit? ☺ | 20:38 |
| Teemu | i wish there was spi on the connector | 20:38 |
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| silver_hook | Has anyone tried to run 100% FS on the Jolla (apart from drivers)? | 20:39 |
| silver_hook | That’d help me *a lot* to get my employer to buy me a Jolla ;) | 20:39 |
| Teemu | i'm not aware of any i2c network interfaces but i'm involved with making a 10/100BaseT board that supports power over ethernet and hooking that to a jolla phone would rock | 20:39 |
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| fennekki | wwell | 20:40 |
| Teemu | now we're just making different versions of the same schematic for st nucleo and other devboards | 20:40 |
| fennekki | you COULD just | 20:40 |
| fennekki | write a driver for ethernet over i2c I guess | 20:40 |
| Teemu | silver_hook: what's 100% FS? | 20:40 |
| silver_hook | Teemu: 100% Free Software | 20:40 |
| Teemu | ahh | 20:41 |
| silver_hook | (a.k.a. FOSS) | 20:41 |
| fennekki | FOSS is a bit better known I guess | 20:41 |
| fennekki | though it's | 20:41 |
| fennekki | technically not the same thing | 20:41 |
| Teemu | :) | 20:41 |
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| fennekki | because free software is necessarily open-source as per all definitions but open-source software doesn't need to be that free | 20:41 |
| Teemu | i'm not sure about the different names of free | 20:41 |
| silver_hook | So, did anyone try to run as much F(OS)S as possible on the Jolla and how far did they get? | 20:41 |
| fennekki | basically there's FSF free and doesn't-cost-anything free | 20:42 |
| fennekki | open source doesn't have to be either | 20:42 |
| silver_hook | http://fsfe.org/about/basics/freesoftware.html | 20:42 |
| Teemu | depending on your point of view, the biggest mouthpieces of FREE software impose a huge fricking big limitation on the freeness | 20:42 |
| Teemu | silver_hook: yes, the fsf are demanding they own the word free | 20:42 |
| fennekki | I don't see how a viral license restricts your freedoms that much | 20:42 |
| silver_hook | Teemu: Link? | 20:42 |
| fennekki | if you don't wanna link with GPL'd libraries then don't | 20:43 |
| fennekki | in very rare cases are they even the only possibility | 20:43 |
| silver_hook | Can we not go into the copyleft vs. lax licensing war? | 20:43 |
| Teemu | as the world keeps wanting freer than fsf-free, the fsf keeps reinventing new and better names for their version of free | 20:43 |
| Teemu | silver_hook: sorry | 20:43 |
| Teemu | i'll shut my feeding hole | 20:43 |
| fennekki | FSF totally approves of public-domaining your code too, though, as well as something like | 20:43 |
| fennekki | what's it again | 20:43 |
| fennekki | that three-clause one | 20:44 |
| Nicd- | MIT? | 20:44 |
| fennekki | aren't there two licenses called MIT license | 20:44 |
| fennekki | well, anyway | 20:44 |
| silver_hook | Teemu: Sorry. I should appologise …my head hurts and I would like to keep my work out of my head for the rest of the day. | 20:44 |
| Nicd- | MIT Expat is mor exact | 20:44 |
| silver_hook | fennekki: 3 Clause BSD? | 20:44 |
| Nicd- | but public domain is not a good choice | 20:44 |
| Nicd- | it's not valid everywhere | 20:44 |
| fennekki | Nicd-: that's why you use Unlicense or CC0 | 20:44 |
| fennekki | which has a short waiver license that pretty much accomplishes most of public-domaining anyway | 20:45 |
| silver_hook | Nicd-: What fennekki said, yes (CC0). | 20:45 |
| Tegu | wtfpl? | 20:45 |
| fennekki | WTFPL isn't legally applicable in a lot of places, probably | 20:45 |
| Teemu | Tegu: a floor tile, really fancy floor tile | 20:45 |
| Teemu | or ceiling tile | 20:45 |
| fennekki | Unlicense is kind of somewhere, CC0 is made to be as applicable as possible | 20:45 |
| Tegu | ceiling tile watches you | 20:45 |
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| fennekki | basically the point of FSF free is just that they want all programs to share the same license and I can see the point in that. There's plenty of apps on, say, the Android app market that are completely open-source but very few alternative distributors | 20:46 |
| fennekki | I can see selling GPL'd software as perfectly feasible | 20:46 |
| fennekki | especially since warez is a thing anyway | 20:47 |
| silver_hook | fennekki: You mean: https://f-droid.org/ | 20:47 |
| fennekki | silver_hook: no, I mean alternate distributors for apps that cost money on play store | 20:47 |
| fennekki | sorry for being inexact | 20:47 |
| fennekki | like how Plumble used to cost a few dollars | 20:47 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: most drivers actually exist in free versions | 20:47 |
| fennekki | but the source was always on github | 20:47 |
| silver_hook | fennekki: Ah, OK. | 20:47 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: you could run freedreno and there's gpl wlan driver too | 20:47 |
| keithzg | Hell, the company I work for sells software, and some of it even links to degrees against GPL and LGPL code, but people pay us for support and to add features for them, not for the copies of the code itself really. | 20:47 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: the only thing you'd be stuck with is the modem | 20:48 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: other than that, it should be entirely doable | 20:48 |
| mornfall | with the right tools at least (you definitely need a serial console) | 20:48 |
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| silver_hook | mornfall: we’re still talking Jolla? | 20:48 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: current jolla hardware yes | 20:48 |
| silver_hook | Neat ☺ | 20:48 |
| mornfall | I was offline coz there's bad 3G coverage | 20:48 |
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| silver_hook | mornfall: And other than that? I know the UI and some core apps are proprietary …what’s the state of FS alternatives? | 20:49 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: look for "updated components" on together.jolla.com | 20:49 |
| silver_hook | …and is there more of the stack that’s non-free? | 20:49 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: no idea, but you could run X as far as I can tell... not SW-compatible with sailfish though | 20:49 |
| silver_hook | mornfall: I saw that …but I don’t recall there being a list of alternatives. | 20:49 |
| * keithzg really hopes the "something big" is a tablet; SailfishOS would be pretty great on a big, hi-res screen. | 20:50 | |
| mornfall | gotta get off train, bbiab | 20:50 |
| silver_hook | mornfall: I was thinking more in the lines of the Nemo Mobile Glacier UI: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Glacier | 20:50 |
| silver_hook | mornfall: Mind the gap! | 20:50 |
| Teemu | keithzg: indeed it would be | 20:52 |
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| silver_hook | mornfall: Glacier looks pretty cool actually (for an alternative FS UI): http://play.qwazix.com/grog/ …I especially like the CLI-like home screen idea :D | 20:58 |
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| silver_hook | Teemu, keithzg: Personally I don’t really care for tablets. But I guess it would make a lot of people happy …and that’s fine by me ☺ It might actually be that, because it seems to lack a TOH. | 21:01 |
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| keithzg | silver_hook: I spend all day sitting at a keyboad and monitors, so when I get home I prefer to sit back on my leather couch or, if it's a nice day out, go off to the nearby park or such (not possible 80% of the year because I'm in northern Canada, but still!) | 21:03 |
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| keithzg | So for me tablets are how I keep up my geeky pursuits without having to spend all my waking hours at a desk, heh. | 21:03 |
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| silver_hook | keithzg: I get it, it’s just not my thing personally. My GF is also a huge tablet (and phablet) fan. | 21:04 |
| mornfall | (back) | 21:04 |
| silver_hook | mornfall: Welcome back! \o/ | 21:05 |
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| * mornfall checks out glacier | 21:06 | |
| keithzg | silver_hook: Yeah, I'm on the fence about the phablet thing. Many times I find myself wishing I had my Nexus 7 with me, especially when something comes up at work and I have to fix it remotely, so a phablet might be nice . . . but giving up the possibility of one-handed use is a big ask. | 21:06 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: what's CLI-like about it? | 21:06 |
| * keithzg might just decide to be a crazy person and buy a phablet *as well* as keep a normal smartphone or two around . . . already carry a Jolla oftentimes despite being unable to use it other than on wifi, heh. | 21:07 | |
| Nicd- | well, if it is a tablet/phablet/bigger device... so much app fixing to do :) | 21:07 |
| silver_hook | mornfall: http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=738 | 21:07 |
| Teemu | i like laptops and bringing them to nature settings for relaxed coding | 21:08 |
| silver_hook | “So my proposal is to modify the home-screen search box to also accept terminal commands. The commands will have a faded autocomplete with included help, and the various autocompleted options will transform into drop down menus when clicked. All this functionality will use plain old bash autocomplete to work.” | 21:08 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: well, yes, but that's not the homescreen is it? | 21:08 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: ah OK | 21:08 |
| mornfall | still, with a touch keyboard it's a no-go for me | 21:08 |
| mornfall | (but yeah, I'll have a tohkbd in half a year or so when they are done :-) | 21:09 |
| Teemu | :) | 21:09 |
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| silver_hook | mornfall: Agreed … *but* if TOHKBD works on it (and people on #mer said it should be a very simple driver to do), that’d be great. | 21:09 |
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| silver_hook | …I admit it doesn’t look as æsthetic as Sailfish’s UI though. | 21:09 |
| silver_hook | Sooooo, is there a list of FS alternatives to proprietary SailfishOS bits already? | 21:10 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: well, the proprietary bits are in the lowest (driver) and highest (ui) levels | 21:11 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: drivers modulo modem are available | 21:11 |
| silver_hook | mornfall: Right and Alien Dalvik, I suppose. | 21:11 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: and UIs are available too | 21:11 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: alien dalvik is an app :P | 21:11 |
| mornfall | you probably wouldn't run a sailfishos on a free phone | 21:12 |
| silver_hook | mornfall: Neither is the UI or drivers ;) | 21:12 |
| mornfall | -a | 21:12 |
| mornfall | app as in store-level app | 21:13 |
| mornfall | none of the jolla store apps would work on a free system | 21:13 |
| silver_hook | Ah, that. OK. | 21:13 |
| mornfall | silica is not free | 21:13 |
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| silver_hook | Right. Any plans to change that? | 21:14 |
| mornfall | no idea | 21:14 |
| mornfall | ask sailors :) | 21:14 |
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| silver_hook | Thanks :) | 21:15 |
| mornfall | I would be lotsa happier if they pulled out TTL alongside the I2C pins :P | 21:15 |
| silver_hook | Working on it. | 21:15 |
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| silver_hook | mornfall: Not on the TTL …what would TTL help you with? | 21:15 |
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| silver_hook | I know people already asked for USB OTG | 21:16 |
| Teemu | ttl what? | 21:16 |
| mornfall | then I could throw out the junk wlan.ko and try the junk free wlan driver from qualcomm :-) | 21:16 |
| silver_hook | Teemu: I guess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor–transistor_logic | 21:16 |
| Teemu | i'm pretty happy with cmos as it is now | 21:16 |
| Teemu | silver_hook: i'm guessing the same | 21:16 |
| mornfall | TTL serial console | 21:17 |
| Teemu | what? _) | 21:17 |
| mornfall | it's how you attach serial consoles to arm soc's | 21:17 |
| mornfall | you convert ttl to uart to usb | 21:17 |
| Teemu | ... namings ... | 21:17 |
| mornfall | rs232 | 21:18 |
| mornfall | whatever :-) | 21:18 |
| mornfall | serial console... you know what that is right? :) | 21:18 |
| Teemu | to me that would be uart or usart or perhaps logic level rs232 or something | 21:18 |
| Teemu | yes i know | 21:18 |
| mornfall | https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/215 | 21:18 |
| Teemu | btw on modern iron that is never going to be ttl since the logic family is cmos | 21:18 |
| Teemu | ttl as a logic family with push-pull bipolar transistors | 21:19 |
| mornfall | dunno, my old kirkwood has ttl, and raspberry has ttl | 21:20 |
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| Teemu | cmos is much better, especially when nowadays you can select if you have push-pull or open drain on per-pin basis on most decent microcontrollers | 21:20 |
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| Teemu | raspberry has a logic level serial console yes, but it is made in cmos process | 21:20 |
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| mornfall | call it whatever you will, native-voltage 1 and no-voltage 0 that I can use to talk to the bootloader and the kernel after that is good enough for me :-) if you can upload files to the bootloader with it, even better | 21:24 |
| mornfall | you can get at it if you disassemble the case, I guess, because they need it for service and stuff | 21:25 |
| mornfall | (alternatively, they have jtag or something to reflash the bootloader) | 21:25 |
| mornfall | although debugging things blindly with only a reflashing capability is probably not much fun | 21:26 |
| Teemu | jtag gives you pretty much anything | 21:27 |
| mornfall | (no idea if you can put a console on jtag) | 21:27 |
| Teemu | console would be hard but things like breakpoints and register inspection and stuff like that are dead easy | 21:27 |
| mornfall | https://www.tablix.org/~avian/blog/archives/2012/08/monitoring_serial_console_through_jtag/ | 21:28 |
| silver_hook | mornfall: You know avian? | 21:28 |
| mornfall | nope | 21:29 |
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| mornfall | came up on google | 21:29 |
| silver_hook | Ah, OK. He’s a smart cookie …I like him :) | 21:30 |
| Teemu | what's this cookie thing? :) | 21:30 |
| mornfall | a figure of speech :P | 21:30 |
| Teemu | i know :) | 21:30 |
| Teemu | where from? | 21:30 |
| mornfall | Ljubljana | 21:31 |
| silver_hook | Teemu: To be honest, I dunno where the expression came from …but it’s sweet ;) | 21:31 |
| Teemu | smart cookie keeps coming up around me in a good way | 21:31 |
| silver_hook | Who is? | 21:31 |
| Teemu | a fellow under the same startup pre-incubator mikko from nimble devices uses the phrase | 21:32 |
| mornfall | https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080613194309AAvIrF0 ... it's *old* | 21:32 |
| Teemu | a few others too | 21:32 |
| silver_hook | mornfall: Who is from Lj? | 21:32 |
| mornfall | silver_hook: avian | 21:32 |
| silver_hook | mornfall: Ah, him. Yes, he is. From the same LUG and hackerspace as I am as well. | 21:34 |
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| Teemu | hackerspaces are cool | 21:35 |
| Teemu | (i'm wearing a hackerspace now) | 21:35 |
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| mornfall | World is small. Some NixOS folks are from Slovenia IIRC... | 21:35 |
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| Teemu | https://plus.google.com/106599856185155563972/posts/aSeqJ9p94jd <-- this is from work rougly 18 moons ago | 21:37 |
| silver_hook | Teemu: That’s a DIY Arduido clone? | 21:39 |
| Teemu | with ARM and Ethernet and Power over Ethernet | 21:39 |
| Teemu | and blackjack and hookers | 21:39 |
| Teemu | we at ell-i open source cooperative had a run of 50 made then, now we're into making separate ethernet+power supply boards for a range of devboards | 21:41 |
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| silver_hook | Teemu: But a proper processor makes it closer to a R-Pi, right? | 21:41 |
| Teemu | well, r-pi has poor peripherals for controlling any realtime thing | 21:42 |
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| Teemu | the chips in r-pi and cellphones and set top boxen have good connectivity to bigger hardware but if you want to control a switch mode power supply you're out of luck | 21:43 |
| Teemu | then again, a linux or other big os kernel is way too big anyway | 21:43 |
| Teemu | that particular board, ellduino, has a stm32f051 mcu type arm that has pretty nice peripherals | 21:44 |
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| silver_hook | hmm, oddly interesting | 21:45 |
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| Teemu | the stm32f334 has superb pwm timers and analog comparators all hooked up into each other and a very nice nested vector interrupt controller hardware | 21:45 |
| Teemu | the nvic does away most of the os kernel duties of context switching and handles nested interrupts without letting priority inversion hang out in the way | 21:46 |
| Teemu | it handles the context switch in hardware for you and does it prett damn fast | 21:47 |
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| Teemu | you can set up the comparator so that if it triggers, the pwm values are changed in a predetermined way _immediately_ and a hw interrupt is generated so that your isr can then react more intelligently but most importantly the pwm values are already switched to some known-safe values before any isr has had the time to investigate | 21:49 |
| meklu | hmm, do you need to do something special to download the update 9 sdk? | 21:50 |
| meklu | it's not showing up in the updater | 21:51 |
| Nicd- | you need to download it from the site | 21:51 |
| Nicd- | it's opt-in like the update itself :P | 21:51 |
| kimmoli | Teemu: finally someone that shares thoughs with stm32... | 21:52 |
| r0kk3rz | and its a full reinstall rather than an update per say | 21:53 |
| Teemu | kimmoli: i'm liking them very much | 21:54 |
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| r0kk3rz | hmm im going to have to stay up for the big reveal | 21:54 |
| r0kk3rz | not too late though which is nice | 21:55 |
| Teemu | their peripherals have an annoying way of refusing to work unless you follow the register invocation cantations in exactly correct order | 21:55 |
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| Teemu | other than that, very nice mcus | 21:55 |
| Teemu | now that the nucleo boards have an integrated st-link2 they can be very reliably gdb debugged too | 21:55 |
| kimmoli | going to have to stay up for the big reveal | 21:55 |
| kimmoli | 23:55 < r0kk3rz> not too late though which is | 21:56 |
| kimmoli | wut | 21:56 |
| kimmoli | https://github.com/kimmoli/stm32-toh-programmer | 21:56 |
| r0kk3rz | midnight isnt too late | 21:56 |
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| r0kk3rz | but it is staying up | 21:56 |
| kimmoli | st i2c implementation takes some time to get it understood | 21:56 |
| Teemu | kimmoli: FAAAAK mään :D that's crazy | 21:56 |
| Teemu | i could do actual dayjob work with my phone | 21:56 |
| kimmoli | :) | 21:57 |
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| Teemu | now i just need tohkbd, vi and a compiler/make toolchain | 22:00 |
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| kimmoli | that was made for eink proto, tested with only one new stm32 | 22:02 |
| Teemu | which one? | 22:02 |
| kimmoli | moment | 22:03 |
| kimmoli | 401 | 22:03 |
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| Teemu | i wish they made a nucleo with any stm32 that has hw crypto | 22:05 |
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| Teemu | btw if you like the stm32s are you interested in a 10/100BaseT and PoE supply shield for the nucleo family? | 22:05 |
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| kimmoli | poe would be nice, have to check out nucleo | 22:07 |
| kimmoli | name sounds familiar | 22:07 |
| mornfall | Teemu: but the ARM design you are using is not open hardware is it? | 22:08 |
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| Teemu | mornfall: huh? is the intel chip in your laptop open hardware? | 22:08 |
| mornfall | Teemu: no, my laptop isn't open hardware | 22:08 |
| mornfall | there are open CPU design, but not something you could put in a laptop and reasonably use it | 22:09 |
| mornfall | designs* | 22:09 |
| Teemu | we selected the stm32 family because it is a good design for embedded devices and my fellow founder pekka nikander (yes, him) happened to have personal experience with the family | 22:09 |
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| kimmoli | noticed that eink design has repo, but it is empty.. | 22:10 |
| Teemu | mornfall: are the open hardware cpus big or small? i'm speaking about things where the biggest just announced not yet in manufacture member of the family has whopping 300kB of ram | 22:11 |
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| mornfall | http://opencores.org/ :) | 22:11 |
| mornfall | Teemu: the designs usually run on FPGAs, so I guess that's “small” | 22:12 |
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| Teemu | while you cannot compile the *hdl to an fpga with open/free/something tools | 22:13 |
| Teemu | that's not a limitation for me, but has been for some people in my hacklab | 22:13 |
| Teemu | running a cpu in fpga is hardly good use for them though | 22:14 |
| Teemu | also: the fpga chips are more closed than any mcu | 22:14 |
| Teemu | kimmoli: are you perhaps in greater helsinki region? | 22:16 |
| kimmoli | espoo | 22:17 |
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| Teemu | coolnes | 22:17 |
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| Teemu | now soon you're gonna tell me you worked for nixu in the 1990s? | 22:18 |
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| niuran | it seems there will be new hardware in four days. .. | 22:18 |
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| niuran | hope toh concept will not vanish | 22:19 |
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| kimmoli | Teemu: no | 22:21 |
| Teemu | sentään | 22:21 |
| _cvp_ | niuran, hope its a smartphone and no tablet ;) | 22:21 |
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| niuran | i think it is not a tablet | 22:22 |
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| niuran | but a phone without some "modularity " should be so...conventional | 22:24 |
| Teemu | kimmoli: i'm having the poe+ethernet shields available before christmas so you can buy all your hacker family their own... :) | 22:27 |
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| kimmoli | ok | 22:32 |
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| keithzg | If it's a smartphone I hope it actually supports AWS 3G, right now my Jolla is a tiny tablet, heh. | 22:33 |
| Teemu | kimmoli: are you already member of the helsinki hacklab? | 22:34 |
| kimmoli | no | 22:34 |
| Teemu | new space is at takkatie 18 and can be reached with the a-train or 550 | 22:36 |
| Teemu | now, sleep calls me | 22:36 |
| Teemu | ttyl o/ | 22:36 |
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| kimmoli | mo | 22:39 |
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| silver_hook | Teemu: G’night …I’m dead tired as well. | 22:55 |
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| r0kk3rz | theres a helsinki hacklab? | 23:10 |
| r0kk3rz | cool, might have to visit next time i am in fi | 23:10 |
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| eitzei | Moikka, onko mitään hyvää kikkaa miten voisin yrittää debugata mistä Jolla hakee päivämäärän ja kellon ajan? Omassa Jollassa on alkanu olemaan tälläisiä ongelmia sen jälkeen ku muutin Hollantiin. Voiko esim paikallinen SIM-kortti aiheuttaa ongelmia? Voisin myös väittää Jollan olevan epävakaampi täällä :s | 23:24 |
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