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| lpotter | kimmoli: yes, it should say lte | 00:54 |
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| coderus | s9DW8g/+oXwHNV1gY7MKH/82iSM= | 06:33 |
| coderus | oops | 06:33 |
| coderus | anyway you have no idea what is it :) | 06:33 |
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| meklu | I know it's base64-encoded | 06:48 |
| meklu | ha! | 06:48 |
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| mcfrisk | jolla music player should be playing all songs (20gb) in suffle mode but is stuck on an artist/album/playlist, is there some debug info somewhere I could grab? | 07:14 |
| Teme | maybe it's not stuck, you're just having luck with the shuffle rng ;) | 07:21 |
| mcfrisk | or /dev/urandom does not have any entropy, but no this is a real bug. Somehow did not happen before service and reflash. | 07:22 |
| mcfrisk | and suffle starts working again if I press the next song button. Pause does not cure it. Just had one hour of Metallica... | 07:23 |
| Teme | i'd take it to TJC then | 07:24 |
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| Stskeeps | so, who's been playing with zram on jolla device? | 07:25 |
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| mcfrisk | Teme: will do, but was hoping to grab some debug info when the situation was on.. | 07:27 |
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| Teme | well, maybe someone you need is more actively looking at TJC than IRC :) | 07:45 |
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| coderus | Mitakuuluu v0.8.11 released with bugfixies: https://github.com/CODeRUS/mitakuuluu2/releases/tag/v0.8.11 Check for updates! | 08:34 |
| * till- is updating | 08:35 | |
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| tmynttin | So, younited coming to Sailfish this week :) | 08:56 |
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| tadzik | this cloud storage thingy? | 08:57 |
| Teme | yes | 08:58 |
| tadzik | cool | 08:58 |
| Teme | finally a way to sync Keepass databases to my Jolla too | 08:58 |
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| Teme | too bad i gotta change from Google Drive to Younited on all the others :P | 08:58 |
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| TemeV | Teme: I don't see anything bad on changin away from google drive :) | 09:04 |
| TemeV | or anything else related to google | 09:04 |
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| meklu | "keepass" | 09:07 |
| meklu | heh | 09:07 |
| tadzik | heh | 09:08 |
| meklu | doesn't look like it has a proper desktop client though :( | 09:08 |
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| meklu | huh. | 09:08 |
| meklu | http://community.f-secure.com/t5/Using-younited/Linux-clients-available-here/td-p/38981 | 09:08 |
| meklu | apparently they have *something* | 09:09 |
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| Nicd- | tmynttin: source? | 09:10 |
| Teme | TemeV: just the effort - also the hassle of having two accounts | 09:10 |
| Teme | i mean younited does not offer mail, which i am always logged into | 09:11 |
| Teme | and can easily access drive online | 09:11 |
| Teme | but whatever | 09:11 |
| Teme | also i've managed so far on the Jolla without Keepass so i'm not sure if i'll even jump through the hoops | 09:11 |
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| tmynttin | Nicd-: tweet by (at)CloudTimo | 09:14 |
| meklu | https://twitter.com/CloudTimo/status/516582485065728001 | 09:15 |
| tmynttin | @CloudTimo: Hey all @JollaHQ fans - your wait for @GetYounited is soon over. App hitting #jollastore this week @FSecure #SWITCHONFREEDOM | 09:15 |
| gexc | hmm... not much of September left | 09:15 |
| Teme | the "earlys" tend to have a history... not saying it will happen this time :) | 09:19 |
| clau | talking about update... have you noticed the "check for updates" settings is ignored? I have it set on WLAN Only, and it still checks over 4G. | 09:20 |
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| pdanek | Something is terribly wrong will Sailfish. :O | 09:21 |
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| meklu | how terribly wrong? :o | 09:21 |
| pdanek | It's only only when I plug-in to charger, that I need to turn-off the screen twice, but often even after doing some actions, like I close few applications --> lock the screen --> after 2 sec, screen unlocks itself --> I have to lock it again. | 09:22 |
| pdanek | It happens so so much to me, I'm getting mad from it. :D | 09:22 |
| meklu | :D | 09:22 |
| pdanek | Only only --> not only | 09:22 |
| meklu | I've found that the screen unlocks/lights up for a while when I plug the charger in, and when the charging notification would go away, if I've locked the screen, it turns on again | 09:23 |
| pdanek | Yes, that is like always. | 09:23 |
| meklu | it is rather annoying | 09:23 |
| pdanek | But sometimes even without, like you do some action on phone, lock and it unlocks, no charging involved. | 09:24 |
| pdanek | Like OS still does something in the background and wakes up the display. | 09:24 |
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| ggabriel | pdanek: that does certainly not happen to me | 09:25 |
| ggabriel | any unofficial applications/android store perhaps? | 09:25 |
| ggabriel | or rather: have you tried doing a factory reset and running the official stuff only and replicate? | 09:25 |
| ggabriel | also, journalctl should tell you what happens around the time the screen is getting unlocked/woken up | 09:25 |
| pdanek | I didn't try. | 09:25 |
| meklu | hmm, that may have happened a couple of times, but I'm not sure | 09:25 |
| pdanek | I have some Android apps there though. | 09:26 |
| meklu | I've had some almost-pocket-calling situations | 09:26 |
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| pdanek | Like Skype, which somehow runs in the background, because even if app is shutted down, it starts ringing sometimes. | 09:26 |
| ggabriel | admittedly, i haven't used android | 09:26 |
| ggabriel | i installed it once and then uninstalled it | 09:26 |
| Teme | pdanek: seriously? | 09:26 |
| pdanek | Yes. | 09:27 |
| Teme | app closed = status offline - and if you're offline you can't be called ? | 09:27 |
| pdanek | The app cover is closed. | 09:27 |
| pdanek | Maybe the Skype itself isn't. | 09:27 |
| Teme | hmm | 09:27 |
| meklu | android applications can have 'background tasks', i.e. daemons | 09:27 |
| Teme | i don't want to show up as online by accident :( | 09:28 |
| pdanek | My parents say I'm online all the time on Skype. | 09:28 |
| pdanek | So it must be because of phone. | 09:28 |
| meklu | if you close the steam app cover, steam will still be running | 09:28 |
| meklu | and you need to shut it down from the menu | 09:28 |
| meklu | from within the application itself | 09:28 |
| Teme | hmm, as far as i can tell Skype doesn't have an "exit"-button or similar | 09:29 |
| Aard | iirc it's somewhere in the menu | 09:29 |
| Teme | just the back-button or closing the app cover | 09:29 |
| Teme | Aard: there's sign out, but no exit | 09:29 |
| Teme | i don't think they are the same | 09:29 |
| Aard | sign out should solve your problem | 09:29 |
| Teme | but it would create a new one, i'd have to sign in every time | 09:30 |
| tadzik | I don't think those background tasks work | 09:30 |
| Teme | nobody ever mentioned any inconsistency with my Skype status | 09:30 |
| tadzik | I tried out telegram for a while, and messages didn't arrive when I closed the app | 09:30 |
| Teme | could it be because i set "offline" on desktop every time i leave home? | 09:30 |
| Teme | maybe forced offline status is different | 09:31 |
| Aard | Teme: seems to be a commonly asked question on android http://community.skype.com/t5/Android/How-do-I-exit-shut-down-Skype/td-p/9690/page/4 | 09:31 |
| Teme | than simply sleeping your pc | 09:31 |
| Teme | well, i'm not having any issues with my method anyway :) | 09:32 |
| Teme | just semi-interested how that works as i doubt there is a publicly open spec for that | 09:32 |
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| Nicd- | tmynttin: nice! | 10:00 |
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| Nicd- | so the younited app is an android one | 10:06 |
| Nicd- | *sigh* | 10:06 |
| Nicd- | pretty much makes it unusable for sharing photos | 10:06 |
| Nicd- | unless update 9 has a fix for alien dalvik not seeing all photos | 10:07 |
| tmynttin | Oh, I thought it was going to be native | 10:15 |
| tmynttin | Where does it say it's android? | 10:15 |
| faenil | Nicd-: I asked for an official statement, let's see what they say | 10:17 |
| faenil | tmynttin: it's always been known, but anyway.... https://twitter.com/CloudTimo/status/516888344320802816 | 10:18 |
| Nicd- | tmynttin: in the replies to the twitter post you linked | 10:18 |
| tmynttin | meh | 10:18 |
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| Nicd- | anyway, as android apps don't see new photos until you reboot the phone (or do some magic I don't know about), the f-secure app is going to be pretty useless | 10:18 |
| Nicd- | unless jolla fixes this in u9 | 10:19 |
| tmynttin | i'd expect them to take care of that | 10:21 |
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| tmynttin | as you say, no point in cloud app without access to your files :P | 10:22 |
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| Nicd- | there was no mention of it in the u9 notes | 10:22 |
| Nicd- | so I'm not keeping my hopes up | 10:22 |
| tmynttin | kk | 10:23 |
| tmynttin | well, i was really excited about the first "professional" native app for.sailfish, but guess i'll have to wait for a bit longer :/ | 10:24 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | hi faenil | 10:28 |
| dr_gogeta86 | guys | 10:28 |
| faenil | dr_gogeta86: o/ | 10:28 |
| dr_gogeta86 | tunnitunelli strikes again 3 wifi with captive portal | 10:28 |
| dr_gogeta86 | all bypassed | 10:28 |
| dr_gogeta86 | i need to write an app asap | 10:29 |
| faenil | Nicd-: are you sure you don't see the new pics? I was thinking the same | 10:29 |
| dr_gogeta86 | script is not friendly enaugh | 10:29 |
| faenil | but they've actually moved to a new section | 10:29 |
| faenil | which is at the end of the gallery | 10:29 |
| faenil | a section named, like, "4763" | 10:29 |
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| faenil | which is at the end of the android gallery | 10:29 |
| faenil | dr_gogeta86: good stuff | 10:30 |
| dr_gogeta86 | i need to implement ipcalc in qt | 10:30 |
| dr_gogeta86 | and say it to connman | 10:31 |
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| Nicd- | faenil: it seems they have fixed it, I can see new photos when I open the gallery from android opera | 10:34 |
| Nicd- | that's really good | 10:34 |
| tbr-foo | dr_gogeta86: what are you using to tunnel? | 10:36 |
| faenil | Nicd-: I think it's always been like that | 10:36 |
| faenil | it's just bugged in the way that it puts them under the wrong section | 10:36 |
| Nicd- | faenil: I can see them in my "Camera" section, there are numbered sections but they have old photos | 10:36 |
| faenil | maybe Aard can tell us if this is fixed in update9? | 10:36 |
| Nicd- | earlier I could not see them in any section | 10:36 |
| faenil | Nicd-: if I open whatsapp, go to Attach-->Gallery ---> All pictures | 10:38 |
| faenil | I have many sections "Sept, Aug, July" etc...and the latest pics are in section "4713", no month | 10:38 |
| faenil | and it's like that since the bug has been "featured" in update6 or something | 10:38 |
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| faenil | yeah, it's like that since June, update6 must have added the bug | 10:39 |
| Nicd- | I have "Camera" with ~130 photos and the newest photo. then I have "Photos" or "Pictures" (don't remember which) with ~365 photos and not the newest one (some are duplicates from "Camera") | 10:39 |
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| Nicd- | then I have numbered sections with a random number of photos | 10:39 |
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| pdanek | tadzik: those background tasks must work | 10:40 |
| pdanek | how else would people repetitively call me on Skype, while Skype app is closed | 10:40 |
| faenil | or maybe it was update8 which added the bug...I have pics from early July in "July" section | 10:40 |
| faenil | after that, nothing, only numbered sections | 10:41 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | faenil, i got serius problem with brfs | 10:44 |
| dr_gogeta86 | 2Gb free with 6gb of fs occupation | 10:45 |
| faenil | dr_gogeta86: I'm leaving, ttyl | 10:45 |
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| tadzik | pdanek: well, maybe telegram itself is screwed | 11:14 |
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| * dr_gogeta86 is using nemo devel btrfs-tools .... | 11:22 | |
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| Sail0r | any update news or official postbone statement? :) | 11:48 |
| tadzik | aargh | 11:48 |
| oh8gnz | for update? | 11:48 |
| Stskeeps | the bash... patches... won't... stop.... coming | 11:48 |
| * oh8gnz is yelling: "Where is my update?" :D | 11:49 | |
| tadzik | I hope you guys don't play Valve games | 11:49 |
| Sail0r | hehe | 11:49 |
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| Sail0r | well they have a official valve time document :P | 11:50 |
| Sail0r | https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time | 11:50 |
| Sail0r | maybe you need to post that on together ;) | 11:50 |
| tbr | to add some to the bash context https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/bash/ | 11:50 |
| tbr | latest changes today | 11:50 |
| tadzik | zsh missed a marketing opportunity with this one | 11:50 |
| ggabriel | i'm pretty pleased that my fw runs ksh.... | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | also anything gets slowed down: https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/516881109448400896 | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:51 |
| Nightmare__ | everybody is working on the update in the same room? :D | 11:52 |
| oh8gnz | my home fw runs busybox | 11:52 |
| tadzik | they're all patching bash | 11:52 |
| Sail0r | lol | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | what tadzik said | 11:53 |
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| meklu | they're clearly all rewriting bash from scratch in QML | 11:57 |
| meklu | duh | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | excellent idea | 11:58 |
| meklu | someone should call their shell scratsh | 11:58 |
| w00t | 'gash'? :) | 11:58 |
| gexc | sailfissh | 11:58 |
| Sail0r | seashell | 11:58 |
| oh8gnz | seash | 11:59 |
| tadzik | sheesh | 11:59 |
| tadzik | in light of recent events: maybe "patsh" | 11:59 |
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| clau | now, if someone would want to produce an adrenaline rush in all the people active in this channel, that someone should just say "update is here!" | 12:09 |
| oh8gnz | or just say.. "Update comes in few days, stay tuned!" | 12:10 |
| oh8gnz | and big hype around it | 12:10 |
| AL13N_work | tbr: afaih, bash upstream should be working on the extra bash security fixes | 12:10 |
| Nicd- | clau: don't play with fire | 12:10 |
| AL13N_work | (i mean, next to the 2 CVE's) | 12:10 |
| tbr | AL13N_work: yes, that's well known | 12:10 |
| AL13N_work | tbr: i would hope the update for jolla waits until the bash issue is completely fixed | 12:11 |
| AL13N_work | i know this opinion doesn't make me popular... but i don't care | 12:11 |
| tbr | AL13N_work: unless they are planning to follow up with hot fixes, yeah | 12:11 |
| clau | there's something I don't quite get... bash update might break something, yes. but nss is supposed to be a minor fix, isn't it? | 12:12 |
| clau | no API changes, nothing fancy | 12:12 |
| clau | no need to rebuild stuff, even | 12:12 |
| AL13N_work | tbr: for work, i've been following closely, and i've seen the mess the distro's have made of it | 12:12 |
| AL13N_work | if only it would've been kept silent for a little while longer | 12:13 |
| AL13N_work | a big chunk of the mess could've been avoided | 12:13 |
| clau | as about bash... I'd rather get the main update as it is now, and security fixes when needed | 12:13 |
| tbr | some of the things only bubbled up though because people started looking | 12:13 |
| clau | I do hope security fixes will come out of band in the future too | 12:13 |
| AL13N_work | tbr: true, but i think those would've come to the light after the initial release of upstream | 12:14 |
| AL13N_work | tbr: maybe it could be interesting to group system command updates in a "app update" rather than system update? | 12:15 |
| AL13N_work | like call the app "Jolla Security" :-) | 12:15 |
| AL13N_work | and have it update some stuff from mer or something | 12:15 |
| tbr | that sounds wrong on many levels | 12:15 |
| AL13N_work | myeah, i know | 12:16 |
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| birdzhang | no update :-( | 12:42 |
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| Nicd- | birdzhang: because of that line the update has been delayed for a day | 12:43 |
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| tadzik | thanks, birdzhang | 12:45 |
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| birdzhang | tadzik: you should tkank Nicd :-) | 12:54 |
| birdzhang | thank | 12:55 |
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| gexc | would there be two updates in October then? | 13:03 |
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| tadzik | depends on how many new bash exploits can they find | 13:05 |
| gexc | er... | 13:05 |
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| Sail0r | https://twitter.com/GetYounited/status/514487181688451073 | 14:02 |
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| Sail0r | https://twitter.com/CloudTimo/status/516582485065728001 | 14:04 |
| clau | as I understand, it'll be an android app? :\ | 14:05 |
| tadzik | u wot m8 | 14:06 |
| tadzik | that seems so stupid | 14:06 |
| clau | yeah, I think I'll skip this one | 14:06 |
| Sail0r | Why would the release an android app that wouldn't make much sense | 14:10 |
| Sail0r | and wouldn't have taken so long time | 14:10 |
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| faenil | we've always knwn that, I just hoped they'd change their mind :/ | 14:12 |
| clau | just noticed this: http://shop.jolla.com/eu_en/cat-accessories/insmat-screen-protector.html | 14:13 |
| Sail0r | well another reason not to have younited ^^ | 14:14 |
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| clau | is this insmat screen protector good? does it cover the entire glass? | 14:14 |
| Nav | On the subject of cloudy sync things.... Anyone played with davfs2? | 14:15 |
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| HarhaanJohtaja | no update today | 14:27 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/516953296888942592 | 14:27 |
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| clau | I can feel the pain. No comment. At all. | 15:15 |
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| clau | and it's probably birdzhang's fault. | 15:18 |
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| Nicd- | told you it gets delayed every time someone asks for it | 15:19 |
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| coderus | i have no idea what is yonited and i dont care android app or not :D | 15:25 |
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| faenil | coderus: it's fsecure's cloud "secure" platform | 15:27 |
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| Nicd- | basically google drive / onedrive but by fsecure | 15:30 |
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| topi` | what happened? My jolla started flashing a red led, approx 4 times per second, it looks like some error code | 16:14 |
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| topi` | I tried to click "Settings", screen went blank and started flashing red led | 16:14 |
| topi` | is this a regular occurrence for the latest release? | 16:15 |
| Nicd- | no | 16:15 |
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| Nicd- | did the screen come back on? | 16:15 |
| topi` | first time I've seen this | 16:15 |
| topi` | nope. I had to reboot | 16:15 |
| Nicd- | that's not nice | 16:15 |
| topi` | I pressed down the power, and waited 8 seconds, so it shut down | 16:15 |
| Nicd- | usually screen shutting down and led flashing means lipstick (the UI) crashed | 16:15 |
| topi` | it just looks like the flashing RED led is some kind of error code | 16:15 |
| Nicd- | it is | 16:16 |
| spiiroin | topi`: rapid red blinking = lipstick is unresponsive while display is being powered off | 16:16 |
| topi` | ok. But I waited for a while and it didn't seem to recover | 16:16 |
| spiiroin | the lipstick process probably hanged; if it would have crashed and restarted -> recovers then | 16:17 |
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| topi` | maybe the Adreno 3D drivers are still buggy | 16:28 |
| topi` | I have one Android game (probably GLES2.0) that always crashes the whole machine after 3 minutes | 16:29 |
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| coderus | faenil: ah, just cloud... | 17:10 |
| coderus | i'm not using clouds on my mobile :) | 17:10 |
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| faenil | coderus: not even contacts? | 17:12 |
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| SK_work | windows 10 | 17:14 |
| SK_work | yay | 17:14 |
| faenil | yeah ahah | 17:14 |
| SK_work | because 9 was too close to 8/8.1 that was a total failure | 17:14 |
| SK_work | good that my office computer might get some speed from 8 and still look like a decent windows 7 | 17:14 |
| SK_work | anyway | 17:14 |
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| Morpog_PC | windows 10, lol they can't count anymore at microsoft :D | 17:20 |
| Nicd- | uitukka should be numbered update 10 | 17:21 |
| raa700 | should it be 8.2? | 17:21 |
| Morpog_PC | at least windows 9, 8.2 would be more correct in terms of features, it looks like a giant servicepack | 17:21 |
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| SK_work | Morpog_PC: thunderbird went from 4 to 30 too | 17:22 |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 17:22 |
| * cb400f tries to remember the projects which skipped uneven numbers cuz they were devel versions... gnome? | 17:23 | |
| cb400f | gnome2 that is.. not sure if gnome3 still follows that scheme | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | cb400f: linux used to? | 17:24 |
| coderus | faenil: yes | 17:24 |
| Nightmare__ | winamp2-> winamp 3-> winamp5 (2+3) :D | 17:24 |
| Morpog_PC | yeah winamp5 was also strange back then :D | 17:24 |
| raa700 | well, winamp 3 was POS | 17:24 |
| cb400f | Stskeeps: ah, true.. scary that I can't remember back past linux 3.x ;-) | 17:25 |
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| * Morpog_PC downloads Nokia Here maps for his Jolla :D | 17:26 | |
| Nightmare__ | ? | 17:26 |
| Morpog_PC | leaked APK | 17:26 |
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| Sail0r | nice | 17:27 |
| Morpog_PC | http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/09/29/nokias-here-maps-for-android-beta-apk-leaked-works-fine-on-non-samsung-hardware/ | 17:27 |
| cb400f | the maps are still part of "old" Nokia, and not MS, right? | 17:28 |
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| Morpog_PC | yes | 17:28 |
| Morpog_PC | they even stopped developing WP apps | 17:28 |
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| Morpog_PC | concentrate on iOS and Android | 17:29 |
| cb400f | guess the maps were the strongest selling point for the Lumias, so now they don't even have that as a differentiator ;-) | 17:30 |
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| cb400f | maybe if paid apps support is coming to Jolla Market soon, Nokia Here .apk could be offered for sale | 17:31 |
| cb400f | officially and legally of course | 17:32 |
| Morpog_PC | or just buy it from amazon store or play store | 17:32 |
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| Morpog_PC | Nokia Drive was the thing I missed most from my N9 and N8 on my Jolla | 17:33 |
| cb400f | ah, if it's available there.. the link said something about "licensed partners only".. so I thought it would be vendor specific stuff | 17:33 |
| Morpog_PC | cb400f, well for now it seems Samsung exclusive, but I guess that won't be forever | 17:33 |
| faenil | Morpog_PC: they didn't stop devving WP app, they just said that now they'll give the same importance to WP/Android/iOS, which is quite different :P | 17:36 |
| javispedro | yes, it's just marketing-speak for "we stopped" :) | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | is it just me or are they totally ditching touch-y windows? | 17:37 |
| faenil | kind of, yeah | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | wow. | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | and when i thought microsoft had it right | 17:37 |
| javispedro | meh | 17:37 |
| Morpog_PC | Stskeeps, no, just for desktops where it was always dumb | 17:37 |
| faenil | javispedro: you think msft would let that happen? come on ;) | 17:37 |
| javispedro | I was using win8 mostly for the tablet mode either way :) | 17:37 |
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| Morpog_PC | modern ui apps now run in windows on desktop :) | 17:39 |
| Morpog_PC | that sounds so owrong, lol | 17:39 |
| javispedro | "so, guys, were you complaining about win8 being a two-head monster?" | 17:39 |
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| javispedro | here's more multiple personality disorder for you! | 17:39 |
| javispedro | two start menus! | 17:39 |
| javispedro | two alt+tab screens! | 17:39 |
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| faenil | hahaah | 17:40 |
| AL13N | ? | 17:40 |
| AL13N | 2 start menu's? | 17:40 |
| Morpog_PC | one for tablets | 17:41 |
| javispedro | yep, the "touch mode", which looks like the win8 start menu except with the "my documents" icons and so on | 17:41 |
| Morpog_PC | like win8 | 17:41 |
| javispedro | and the "mosue mode" one which looks like win95 except with some win8 tiles | 17:41 |
| Morpog_PC | :D | 17:41 |
| Morpog_PC | http://live.theverge.com/microsoft-windows-9-event-live-blog/ | 17:42 |
| javispedro | hey, at least you can now ctrl+v on the terminal emulator | 17:42 |
| AL13N | oh, that's nice, i can just resume where i left off | 17:42 |
| AL13N | win95 (win.com) from dos | 17:42 |
| javispedro | that's something gnome-/mate-terminal still refuses to do, probably because emacs uses that keybinding for something... | 17:42 |
| AL13N | i'm kidding my last windows wasn't 95 | 17:43 |
| AL13N | it was win98se | 17:43 |
| AL13N | or me, if you count that | 17:43 |
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| javispedro | I have to say that it's not bad | 17:44 |
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| javispedro | (for a free upgrade that is) | 17:45 |
| javispedro | not worth the fanfare | 17:45 |
| Morpog_PC | only for win 8 users it will be free i heard | 17:45 |
| javispedro | meh, MS doesn't make money on upgrades either way, they just want to avoid people downgrading so that they can push the store | 17:45 |
| javispedro | they can probably be first to do the "docked phone" = "desktop win" idea | 17:47 |
| Morpog_PC | yep | 17:47 |
| Morpog_PC | still, I hate the UX of Mordern UI | 17:47 |
| Morpog_PC | so much waste of space | 17:47 |
| javispedro | i like the no-frills approach | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | so, sailfish desktop next/ | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:48 |
| Morpog_PC | go for it! | 17:48 |
| javispedro | why do you think I'm pushing xwayland for =) | 17:48 |
| M4rtinK | to get OpenOffice & GTK2, right ? :) | 17:49 |
| javispedro | possibly | 17:49 |
| Morpog_PC | task view button on taskbar.......... meh, as if alt-tab and win+tab wasn't enough | 17:49 |
| M4rtinK | also the Java toolkits are AFAIK still X-only | 17:49 |
| javispedro | mate window manager crashes trying to do $SOMETHING_SEEMINGLY_USELESS, otherwise I'd have already posted screenshots :) | 17:49 |
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| javispedro | M4rtinK, note that doing anything else other than running openoffice inside Xephyr-style window on a X11 wm is probably going to require non-trivial work | 17:53 |
| Morpog_PC | Q: You mentioned screens ranging from 4 inches to 80 inches. Is Windows 10 the next version of the phone operating system too? | 17:54 |
| Morpog_PC | A: Yes. | 17:54 |
| javispedro | I don't want to be the one extending lipstick to handle menus and other popus | 17:54 |
| javispedro | prefer to leave that to "sailfish desktop" gurus *cough cough* | 17:54 |
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| javispedro | "there are [...] pacemakers running Windows" | 17:56 |
| javispedro | there's a nightmarish though for tonight | 17:56 |
| javispedro | *thought | 17:57 |
| M4rtinK | javispedro: the most interesting thing for me would be working Py/Gtk :) | 17:57 |
| M4rtinK | javispedro: so that the modRana GTK GUI can be used on Jolla | 17:58 |
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| M4rtinK | javispedro: for the ultimate retro computing experience + I guess some might even prefer it to the "modern" QtQuick 2.0 based one :) | 17:59 |
| javispedro | did you use gtk in modrana? :P | 17:59 |
| M4rtinK | the original interface is GTK2 | 17:59 |
| M4rtinK | not really GTK widgets though - only some dialogs - the rest is custom drawn with Cairo :) | 18:00 |
| M4rtinK | then there is the semi-abandoned QtQuick 1 version and the current QtQuick 2.0 interface, all running with the same core | 18:01 |
| javispedro | if you are entirely custom-drawn you may consider SDL+cairo or similar | 18:01 |
| javispedro | "Q: Now it's Windows 10, will we see future versions named after big cats?" :) | 18:02 |
| M4rtinK | javispedro: yeah, that might not be that difficult to do actually | 18:03 |
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| M4rtinK | javispedro: but I rather like how I don't have do everything myself in QtQuick & still want to maintain the GTK2 interface mainly for N900 users | 18:04 |
| M4rtinK | javispedro: so I'd like to "baseline" on the GTK one & QtQuick 2.0 one, but of course if someone else is interested in a different UI - patches welcome! :) | 18:05 |
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| M4rtinK | javispedro: the GUI is an independent module, so stuff like different QtQuick UIs with different style and design philosophy are possible | 18:06 |
| Tegu | javispedro: haha, was just about to paste that as well :D Windows X | 18:06 |
| M4rtinK | or a WebUI, SDL UI, Tk, WxWidgets, TUI, etc. :) | 18:06 |
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| M4rtinK | </modrana_project_advertising> :) | 18:07 |
| javispedro | WebUI and python? ha! | 18:07 |
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| M4rtinK | well, won't be that difficult I think | 18:08 |
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| M4rtinK | even something just cobled together with SimpleHTTPServer | 18:08 |
| * javispedro coughs | 18:09 | |
| M4rtinK | start/stop tracklog, show current coords, simple slippy map, etc. | 18:09 |
| M4rtinK | might be interesting with some sort of reverse SSH tunnel | 18:09 |
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| javispedro | somehow I always think that "webapps" which consist of native code plus a web server plus a web browser designed to be run on the same host are the worst | 18:10 |
| javispedro | because of the worse is better rule this means that in the future it will be the only kind of program | 18:10 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, sometimes it is pretty horrible :) | 18:10 |
| M4rtinK | but sometimes better than nothing | 18:11 |
| M4rtinK | on the other hand over network it makes more sense | 18:11 |
| giucam | javispedro: did you port xeyes already? :P | 18:13 |
| giucam | that's the only X thing i may want on my phone :P | 18:13 |
| javispedro | no, there's no touch yet | 18:13 |
| M4rtinK | accelerometer ? | 18:13 |
| M4rtinK | XEyes for the 21. century! | 18:14 |
| javispedro | there you have an idea for a qml app | 18:14 |
| M4rtinK | or compas | 18:14 |
| Sail0r | it's really a little shitstorm already https://together.jolla.com/question/11137/when-will-a-younited-app-be-available-for-jolla/ | 18:14 |
| javispedro | wtf is younited | 18:14 |
| stephg | the f-secure cloud thingy | 18:15 |
| javispedro | ah, "secure" and "cloud" in the same sentence, how efficient... | 18:15 |
| stephg | :) | 18:15 |
| M4rtinK | very secure much cloud wow | 18:16 |
| M4rtinK | I got into argument with them on Twitter when the partnership was announced | 18:16 |
| Sail0r | it's much more secure now | 18:17 |
| Sail0r | because the android part does not see all files ^ | 18:17 |
| javispedro | ? | 18:17 |
| M4rtinK | as I've pointed out that even if they are marginally better by encrypting data at rest (at least they claim that) | 18:17 |
| Nightmare__ | an andoird app? really? Ò_ó | 18:17 |
| M4rtinK | it is still not end-to-end and therefore useless :) | 18:17 |
| Sail0r | According to this tweet: | 18:18 |
| Sail0r | https://twitter.com/CloudTimo/status/516582485065728001 | 18:18 |
| Sail0r | it'll be in the store this week. However, Timo Laaksonen also says it'll be an Android application, not a native Sailfish one. | 18:18 |
| M4rtinK | sometimes you wonder what they are doing in these companies | 18:18 |
| M4rtinK | if they are not able to code something like this in about 8 months | 18:18 |
| javispedro | M4rtinK, besides even if they were claiming to encrypt data end to end it's still a propietary protocol/program (unverifiable) which can silently self auto-update (when the NSA letter comes in) | 18:19 |
| M4rtinK | or why they did not release that app earlier | 18:19 |
| * Stskeeps doesn't, personally, believe in the cloud except for storing encrypted blobs in. | 18:19 | |
| Sail0r | because they had to get rid of the google stuff in it`^ | 18:19 |
| M4rtinK | javispedro: sure if I say end-to-end I it of course needs to be verifiable end-to-end encryption | 18:20 |
| javispedro | I just don't get why all the twitter fuss then | 18:20 |
| javispedro | did steve jobs help advertise it? | 18:20 |
| Sail0r | ? | 18:20 |
| M4rtinK | so either just a !blob goes here" or open client | 18:20 |
| M4rtinK | *"blob goes here API" | 18:21 |
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| javispedro | Sail0r, I mean, there is no fuss for missing iCloud, OneDrive, Dropbox etc clients, so why is younited special? :) | 18:21 |
| M4rtinK | national pride or something ? | 18:21 |
| Sail0r | because Jolla advertised a partnership with younited | 18:21 |
| Sail0r | in the üast | 18:21 |
| javispedro | ah. | 18:21 |
| Sail0r | *past | 18:21 |
| * javispedro rolls eyes | 18:22 | |
| M4rtinK | BTW, I was kinda surprised F-Secure still exists | 18:22 |
| Sail0r | and now everyone is pissed like with the angry bird thing | 18:22 |
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| Sail0r | http://blog.younited.com/2014/02/20/announcing-younited-for-jolla/ | 18:22 |
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| M4rtinK | I remember getting their anti-virus software bundled with a Win 98 running Pentium 150 MHz :) | 18:22 |
| Sail0r | http://www.jollausers.com/2014/02/press-release-jolla-and-f-secure-join-forces-to-offer-younited-the-trusted-cloud-service-to-jolla-users/ | 18:23 |
| M4rtinK | there was some unreleased roller coaster game for the N900, right ? :) | 18:23 |
| Sail0r | that's why so many people are pissed at the moment | 18:23 |
| M4rtinK | and some face recognition thing and Android emulator | 18:23 |
| * javispedro misread that URL as "jolla forces younited the trusted cloud service to jolla users" | 18:23 | |
| Sail0r | because it's the third "partnership" which did never get an app or smth | 18:23 |
| Sail0r | hehe | 18:24 |
| M4rtinK | well, I would say - one just needs not to bother around closed projects | 18:24 |
| javispedro | I read on the PR that the deal was about 5GB of free storage | 18:24 |
| M4rtinK | failed oss project can still be picked up, but why bother with failed closed stuff ? if it fails, it is lost forever | 18:24 |
| M4rtinK | well I have a 64 GB uSD card in my Jolla :) | 18:25 |
| javispedro | meh, I remember the "Nokia and EA" deals for the N9 | 18:25 |
| javispedro | and the N900, and the .. | 18:25 |
| M4rtinK | and shitty mobile Internet tarifs prevent serious "cloud" usage anyway, even if it made sense | 18:26 |
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| Sail0r | well i use my owncloud which works good with cargodock | 18:28 |
| javispedro | ah, now I get it | 18:28 |
| Sail0r | no automatic sync but at least i can fast upload images | 18:28 |
| javispedro | younited seems finish stuff | 18:28 |
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| javispedro | and thus the jolla partnership | 18:29 |
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| Sail0r | like rovio | 18:29 |
| Sail0r | http://www.jollausers.com/2014/02/press-release-jolla-to-partner-with-rovios-angry-birds-and-makia-to-create-exclusive-brand-experiences-with-the-unique-the-other-half-smart-covers/ | 18:29 |
| Sail0r | which came not out | 18:30 |
| javispedro | meh | 18:30 |
| javispedro | anyone knows of any finnish keyboard manufacturer? :) | 18:30 |
| javispedro | maybe we can them to arrange a "partnership" :) | 18:30 |
| Sail0r | ah makia was the fashion brand | 18:30 |
| Sail0r | lol | 18:30 |
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| javispedro | I still want that keyboard toh, preferably in Cyan. | 18:31 |
| javispedro | in any case it's not true an "android app" cannot see all of your device | 18:32 |
| javispedro | in fact it probably can see more than a native jolla app.. | 18:32 |
| Sail0r | sure? I had the problem when it did not see everything | 18:32 |
| javispedro | (because it is assumed android apps are protected with the usual android permission system I guess) | 18:32 |
| Sail0r | but it was some releases ago | 18:32 |
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| javispedro | probably only looking in standard android paths or something like that | 18:32 |
| javispedro | one would guess the halfyear they spent porting the android app on jolla would be spent on qa'ing these details. | 18:33 |
| javispedro | though I'm right now using a >$5000 program from a major software company which contains a typo in the main window menubar, so, who knows. | 18:34 |
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| Sail0r | hehe reminds me of F5 | 18:34 |
| Sail0r | yeah, 8k per loadbalancer to have a quagga startscript :x | 18:35 |
| Sail0r | ok it's a stripped down version of zebos sorry | 18:35 |
| Sail0r | ^^ | 18:35 |
| Morpog_PC | wtf here maps even has offline maps :D | 18:35 |
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| Morpog_PC | <3 | 18:35 |
| javispedro | yaeh, <pessimist> another jolla partnership </pessimist> | 18:35 |
| javispedro | Morpog_PC, does the android version run OK? | 18:36 |
| Morpog_PC | runs great | 18:36 |
| Sail0r | maybe Jolla should search for partnerships which are not from finnland ^^ | 18:36 |
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| Morpog_PC | just it seems to not like my old Nokia account :) | 18:37 |
| javispedro | meh, Heremaps and the palmOS emulator might convince me to install aliendalvik | 18:37 |
| Morpog_PC | i can login with it on here.com, but not in the app | 18:37 |
| Sail0r | maybe someone will port CM11 to Jolla ^^ | 18:37 |
| Morpog_PC | naaah | 18:37 |
| Morpog_PC | pure AOSP would be better | 18:37 |
| javispedro | one might argue Jolla is CM10 *cough* | 18:37 |
| r0kk3rz | CM on Jolla | 18:39 |
| r0kk3rz | lol | 18:39 |
| r0kk3rz | easier to just get a one plus one i think | 18:39 |
| Sail0r | lol | 18:39 |
| Morpog_PC | and then use Jolla Launcher :D | 18:39 |
| Sail0r | hehe and you can use all partner apps | 18:40 |
| Sail0r | angry birds, younited | 18:40 |
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| * javispedro 'd prefer jumping out of the window | 18:40 | |
| Sail0r | now we get the greater plan of this | 18:40 |
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| Sail0r | sailfishos transforms to pure android | 18:40 |
| Sail0r | with launcher | 18:40 |
| Sail0r | xD | 18:40 |
| r0kk3rz | lol | 18:41 |
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| r0kk3rz | or, can just run sailfishos | 18:41 |
| javispedro | I just hope that never happens, though I think there's a real chance of it happening | 18:42 |
| javispedro | e.g. | 18:42 |
| Stskeeps | no | 18:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:42 |
| javispedro | ok. | 18:42 |
| javispedro | good to know :) | 18:42 |
| r0kk3rz | CM might write a silica app compatibillity layer | 18:43 |
| Morpog_PC | loool | 18:43 |
| javispedro | it's called qt for android. | 18:43 |
| r0kk3rz | because we have all the cool apps | 18:43 |
| javispedro | my fear was that some beancounter (no offense) would realize that qt for android works "well enough" and try to put two and two together | 18:44 |
| javispedro | at some point I run out of arguments to throw against such reasoning. | 18:44 |
| javispedro | (despite the fact that obviously I DON'T want that to happen) | 18:45 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, I'm pretty close to getting PyOtherSide to run on Android :) | 18:45 |
| M4rtinK | still segfaults if you try to actually use it though :P | 18:46 |
| r0kk3rz | qt for android would help make the case for sailfish app development | 18:46 |
| r0kk3rz | use QT because its awesome, and publish cross platform | 18:46 |
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| M4rtinK | also applies to BB10 | 18:47 |
| M4rtinK | should be easier these days due to qtquick controls improvements | 18:48 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah | 18:48 |
| r0kk3rz | but how much longer is BB going to be around? | 18:48 |
| r0kk3rz | if their brickphone doesnt sell very well. then thats probably going to be it for BB as a device manufacturer | 18:48 |
| javispedro | I think they'll chump fine for a while | 18:49 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | next triangle phone | 18:49 |
| javispedro | they have a hardcore fan base that is still larger than jolla maemo combined | 18:49 |
| sqozz | cross platform is so much easier to say than to realise.. what about the different control concepts of android and sailfish? | 18:49 |
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| r0kk3rz | javispedro: yes but BB is also a big company | 18:50 |
| r0kk3rz | which needs big sales, Jolla not so much | 18:51 |
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| sqozz | the same thing said everyone before the release of BB10.. and look what is now - they still alive | 18:51 |
| r0kk3rz | they are, but they are also getting ready to dump their device manufacturer division and try and make it as an IBM of the world | 18:52 |
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| sqozz | i think RIM is still some time around us.. even if not, microsoft will buy them, as they did with nokia | 18:53 |
| javispedro | that would make my funnymeter explode | 18:54 |
| javispedro | ...though it even seems likely by now... | 18:54 |
| javispedro | d'oh! | 18:55 |
| javispedro | another blank notification on my metawatch, though I had fixed them by now. | 18:55 |
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| Sail0r | look at the pebbled code of smokku | 18:56 |
| Sail0r | they got rid of them | 18:56 |
| javispedro | no, this is a bluetooth problem | 18:56 |
| Sail0r | ah k | 18:56 |
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| sqozz | mine not so much… the technology of RIM with managing devices from one central "self" controlled server and the technology from microsoft with the whole office stuff in one device whould kick apple and google so far out of this whole "bussiness" bussiness | 18:56 |
| sqozz | s/whould/would | 18:57 |
| javispedro | maybe | 19:01 |
| javispedro | the "whole office stuff in one device" is something MS most definitely does not have | 19:01 |
| javispedro | in fact (and this is not new) even Google has more format compatibility than MS's "mobile" office suites | 19:02 |
| Nightmare__ | or MS buys just another Company after its peak | 19:02 |
| javispedro | just like the 90s.. | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | interesting, android advises all private and anonymous mappings can be potential samepage merges | 19:02 |
| javispedro | wtf | 19:02 |
| javispedro | do they run ksm even without that madvise hint? | 19:03 |
| javispedro | should try on my desktop.. | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | well, https://android.googlesource.com/platform/bionic/+/553a5ec/libc/bionic/mmap.c | 19:03 |
| javispedro | holy. | 19:04 |
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| javispedro | a quick meminfo on my desktop tells me around 30% of my pages are private anonymous | 19:06 |
| javispedro | https://code.google.com/p/android-source-browsing/source/diff?spec=svn.platform--bionic.635df850e5037be5093f64a87ec2e0a23bf7a50b&repo=platform--bionic&r=635df850e5037be5093f64a87ec2e0a23bf7a50b&format=side&path=/libc/bionic/mmap.c | 19:07 |
| javispedro | ? | 19:07 |
| javispedro | oh, it's older | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | oh, they removed it? | 19:08 |
| javispedro | and then readded it 5 months later | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | curious | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 19:08 |
| javispedro | 35df850e5037be5093f64a87ec2e0a23bf7a50b&format=sid | 19:08 |
| javispedro | 35df850e5037be5093f64a87ec2e0a23bf7a50b&format=sid | 19:08 |
| javispedro | d'oh! | 19:09 |
| javispedro | https://android.googlesource.com/platform/bionic/+log/HEAD/libc/bionic/mmap.c | 19:09 |
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| javispedro | ignore the hashes | 19:09 |
| javispedro | it's kind of an interesting idea | 19:10 |
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| * Stskeeps tries out zram.. | 19:16 | |
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| javispedro | well, gtg, cya and good luck! | 19:20 |
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| javispedro | maybe one will be able to run sailfish on the n900 with ksm and zram and .. ! :) | 19:20 |
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| M4rtinK | zram is nice :) | 20:18 |
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| M4rtinK | (as I'm sure I've already reported once or twice) we added it recently to the Fedora installer environment | 20:19 |
| M4rtinK | to lower minimal RAM requirements for network installation | 20:19 |
| M4rtinK | previously it was barely working with 512 MB | 20:20 |
| M4rtinK | now it works fine with 320 :) | 20:20 |
| M4rtinK | and before someone says "so much ?!!" keep in mind that it accounts for all repo metadata, all the stuff needed for the graphical interface, localization and all required backend libraries | 20:21 |
| M4rtinK | sure, just dumping a tar on disk or even dding an image to a block device directly would require much less resources, but you loose any flexibility :) | 20:22 |
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| Morpog_PC | so does it speedup my Jolla or help with more free ram? | 20:28 |
| Shinryuu | zram works well.. I just use the default settings with it | 20:33 |
| Shinryuu | also I made some tests with that fps thing | 20:33 |
| M4rtinK | I think the main benefit should be that real swap gets used later | 20:38 |
| M4rtinK | so you should be able to run more apps before the phone start lagging | 20:39 |
| M4rtinK | *starts | 20:39 |
| M4rtinK | another benefit might be increased durability of eMMC | 20:40 |
| M4rtinK | due to fewer writes due swapping | 20:40 |
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| Morpog_PC | i'm not worried at all about flash wearing out | 20:45 |
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| stephg | M4rtinK: also using it on my jolla for a couple of weeks; no complaints | 20:50 |
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| M4rtinK | I'm thinking about also trying it out :) | 20:56 |
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| * Morpog_PC wonders if we get zram in a future update | 21:14 | |
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| M4rtinK | Stskeeps is already playing with it, so it is almost certain :) | 21:23 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, the N9 uses the zram predecessor | 21:23 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/2/19/68 patch to enable ksm unconditionally on all pages | 22:29 |
| javispedro | ksm doesn't run on file-backed pages either way, so net result should be similar to android's libc hack | 22:30 |
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| javispedro | alternatively, https://github.com/RealEnder/KSM-tools/blob/master/README | 22:30 |
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