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| Shihua | Nobody ? | 05:07 |
|---|---|---|
| Shihua | Maybe ,you are sleeping. | 05:08 |
| Shihua | Here is light.And you? | 05:09 |
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| atj_ | win 27 | 09:46 |
| atj_ | oops | 09:46 |
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| ballock | Stskeeps: I got a valid aero2 SIM. Works like a charm on Jolla. No issues. | 10:04 |
| Stskeeps | ballock: excellent | 10:04 |
| Stskeeps | so it was indeed denied? | 10:04 |
| ballock | Calling didn't crash, just disconnect, as expected (this sim doesn't call) | 10:04 |
| ballock | SMSes failed to be sent, with the right information on it. | 10:05 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 10:05 |
| ballock | So it looks good. | 10:05 |
| Stskeeps | glad to hear | 10:05 |
| ballock | Yes. That one was denied indeed. | 10:05 |
| Stskeeps | we could probably be better at telling it in the ui | 10:05 |
| tbr | sup ballock, how's life | 10:06 |
| ballock | It wouldn't hurt, but it's on par with N900 and Samsung Young at the moment. | 10:06 |
| ballock | tbr: life's good :) | 10:06 |
| tbr | nice to hear | 10:07 |
| ballock | working conditions are very good | 10:07 |
| tbr | that's very nice | 10:07 |
| ballock | I need to find a similar company in the civil engineering field, for my wife | 10:07 |
| ballock | It should be the other way round, that the husband is stressed out, not the wife ;) | 10:07 |
| ballock | I guess being an IT person is just too good :D | 10:08 |
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| ballock | tbr: how's yours? | 10:09 |
| tbr | same old, same old. | 10:09 |
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| narchie2 | so when will email app be fixed | 10:11 |
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| tbr | narchie2: starts fine here, what's your problem? | 10:12 |
| Aciid | heard somethings up | 10:14 |
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| Aciid | narchie: how about stop using gmail | 10:14 |
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| tadzik | shots fired | 10:24 |
| narchie | how about error messages without having to configure logging | 10:25 |
| narchie | what a waste of time | 10:25 |
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| tadzik | well, ability to set up send and trash folders would be nice | 10:29 |
| tadzik | but isn't that thing just Modest in disguise? | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | no, modest was based off tinymail(?) i think | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | this is QMF | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | http://modest.garage.maemo.org/ | 10:30 |
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| Shihua | How to install the drivers for Jolla in W7? | 10:45 |
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| Stskeeps | Shihua: depends which ones you need, at least MTP should happen without problem | 10:46 |
| Shihua | Thanks. | 10:47 |
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| Shihua | If I downloaded something from PC to my Jolla, How to make it exit sagely. | 10:49 |
| Shihua | safely | 10:49 |
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| Stskeeps | should be safe by standard | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | it's not usb mass storage | 10:52 |
| tbr | yeah, MTP should be atomic | 10:52 |
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| Shihua | Your meaning is that I can pull up Jolla ?when I downloaded my need. | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 10:57 |
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| Shihua | Thanks for your replies. | 10:58 |
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| tadzik | Stskeeps: is the email app open? | 11:00 |
| Stskeeps | no, frameworks are though | 11:01 |
| tadzik | I see | 11:01 |
| tadzik | I suppose the things I miss are frontend side though anyway | 11:01 |
| tadzik | besides, I can't even get to release DogeNow :o | 11:01 |
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| Stskeeps | mm? | 11:13 |
| Shinryuu | :O | 11:13 |
| * tbr ponders if there is a good resource to read about D-Bus design concepts | 11:14 | |
| tbr | last time I got lost in some doxygen crap | 11:14 |
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| Stskeeps | dbus is designed? | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:16 |
| r0kk3rz | there is, i'll see if i can find what I was reading | 11:16 |
| tbr | I feel it would be very beneficial to understand general concept and also usage principles. As I need to bridge into that from the push notification service. | 11:18 |
| r0kk3rz | the general concept isnt very complicated | 11:18 |
| tbr | yes, I know the basics | 11:18 |
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| r0kk3rz | https://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/D-Bus/Creating_Interfaces | 11:19 |
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| r0kk3rz | this is pretty useful for coding | 11:19 |
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| tbr | meh, application developer perspective | 11:20 |
| tbr | that's NOT what I'm looking for | 11:20 |
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| tbr | I'm looking for a system integration/architecture perspective | 11:22 |
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| tbr | back to the roots it is: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-tutorial.html | 11:28 |
| r0kk3rz | thats likely going to be different on different platforms that implement dbus | 11:28 |
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| r0kk3rz | dbus itself is just a way to describe an application interface | 11:30 |
| tbr | correct, and I prefer to gain a wider understanding of WTF I'm dealing with before I narrow it down to the implementation at hand | 11:30 |
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| r0kk3rz | sounds like a good practice | 11:31 |
| tbr | there are e.g. wide security implications if I go down the wrong route with this. | 11:32 |
| tbr | e.g. I'm very sure I don't want to allow sending of arbitrary dbus messages from the push server to the device | 11:32 |
| tbr | I wan this to be ideally inherently safe, but flexible/seamless. | 11:34 |
| r0kk3rz | there a qt classes to define a dbus adaptor | 11:34 |
| r0kk3rz | basically a class that wraps your main class | 11:34 |
| r0kk3rz | which defines your dbus interface, and you can do whatever checks/balances you want | 11:35 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: I'm not writing an application | 11:35 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: https://twitter.com/tbr23/status/496372581419982848 | 11:38 |
| r0kk3rz | not sure i understand | 11:38 |
| r0kk3rz | ah i see | 11:39 |
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| r0kk3rz | yes that will have wide security implicatons | 11:39 |
| tbr | this has potentially wide reaching implications and thus I want to be _really_ sure I understand things correctly | 11:39 |
| r0kk3rz | understood | 11:39 |
| tbr | not only security | 11:40 |
| tbr | also usability by applications that want to get messages etc | 11:40 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah i think i would want to control what types of messages are relayed | 11:44 |
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| tbr | current working hypothesis: messages are sent to a specific method(?) that apps are expected to implement if they want to receive messages | 11:46 |
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| tbr | and I probably want to restrict the server API usage to per-app-endpoint, not just per device | 11:47 |
| tbr | that way a token can be used to send messages to one app on one device | 11:47 |
| r0kk3rz | out messages are signals | 11:48 |
| r0kk3rz | which recieving applications watch for and act on | 11:48 |
| tbr | I need to go back and look at which parts of the ubuntu touch push system are open by now | 11:49 |
| r0kk3rz | like a broadcast packet basically | 11:49 |
| tbr | their documentation looked quite thin though | 11:49 |
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| r0kk3rz | actually, i guess what you want is your own version of this: http://specifications.freedesktop.org/mpris-spec/latest/ | 12:06 |
| r0kk3rz | which i'm currently implementing | 12:06 |
| r0kk3rz | its a dbus api spec for media players | 12:07 |
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| r0kk3rz | there may already be a spec for generic notifications | 12:10 |
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| tbr | r0kk3rz: thanks, that's interesting. requiring it to be below a common path is one possible approach yes, and something I want to figure out if it's better that way or by each app having their own dbus path but standardized way to address it | 12:21 |
| r0kk3rz | each app announces their own name | 12:23 |
| r0kk3rz | but uses a standardised interface and method structure | 12:23 |
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| r0kk3rz | so you can have many apps which are all individually addressable | 12:23 |
| tbr | yes, I'm still figuring out the naming conventions and usage conventions both for paths and interfaces | 12:23 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah i'm not too sure how the other side of that media player interface works | 12:24 |
| tbr | so my question is org.example.push.app-a vs org.acme.push | 12:24 |
| r0kk3rz | how it gets the various mediaplayers and decides which one to control | 12:24 |
| tbr | but I'll read more about dbus to get a clue | 12:25 |
| tbr | then those things should be more obvious | 12:25 |
| tbr | but yeah, this spec looks pretty good as a blueprint, thanks again | 12:25 |
| r0kk3rz | but using the org.example.push.app-a method allows you to filter dbus by org.example.push.* | 12:26 |
| tbr | right, that's a good point | 12:26 |
| r0kk3rz | and means you only have one variable in your code for deciding who to relay messages to | 12:26 |
| r0kk3rz | which is the service name, which makes sense | 12:26 |
| r0kk3rz | but there may be other ways to do that, i'm fairly new to dbus myself | 12:27 |
| tbr | and the proxy just forwards all incoming push messages to org.example.push.$variable, where $variable is part of the push message protocol | 12:27 |
| tbr | but then I'm wondering if I need to maintain a "canonical list" of apps | 12:28 |
| tbr | or if it's just responsibility of app developers to be unique | 12:28 |
| r0kk3rz | they will need to be unique, but any canonical list is likely to never be complete | 12:30 |
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| r0kk3rz | if your spec is public, and people want to implement it, they will | 12:30 |
| tbr | well there is going to be a central push message service | 12:31 |
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| tbr | figuring out a reasonably easy but secure way to arrange authentication will also be fun | 12:32 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah good luck with that, dbus seems fairly public | 12:33 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: oh, sure I can't stop apps just listening to dbus | 12:34 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: each app would need to ensure security itself, e.g. by encrypting messages themselves. | 12:35 |
| inz | tbr, if you wish to send a message to several D-Bus clients, wouldn't a signal make more sense? | 12:35 |
| Stskeeps | fg | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | er, ignore me.. | 12:36 |
| tbr | inz: I want to send a message to _one_ client | 12:36 |
| * tbr sends Stskeeps a CTRL-z | 12:36 | |
| tbr | inz: one client at a time that is | 12:36 |
| tbr | inz: look at the high level architecture that I posted | 12:36 |
| inz | I did | 12:37 |
| tbr | so how would I address App-A if I just essentially send an undirected broadcast? | 12:38 |
| inz | I didn't understand you would need to | 12:38 |
| tbr | ok, let's illustrate by a use case: | 12:39 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr, you'd put it in the message contents | 12:39 |
| r0kk3rz | then its up to the app to decide whether the message is for it | 12:39 |
| tbr | IRC hilights, IRC client (e.g. irssi) wants to notify the user of an event, sends a message with a token to a API server, that forwards it then to the correct device, on that the proxy then needs to deliver it to the right app so that it does something with it. | 12:40 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: that sounds like adding an abstraction layer that might just not be necessary | 12:41 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah i dont like it either | 12:42 |
| r0kk3rz | the other way seems to be better | 12:42 |
| tbr | I'll keep digging around in D-Bus, properly understanding it is the key here IMHO | 12:42 |
| tbr | else it's all theory | 12:42 |
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| r0kk3rz | feel free to share your findings | 12:43 |
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| tbr | will do | 12:43 |
| inz | Humm, at least if the apps register themselves to the notifier component, you gain autostart | 12:43 |
| inz | With signals that couldn't be done | 12:43 |
| tbr | yes, being able to start apps would be useful | 12:44 |
| inz | btw, please also consider pop in your spec, not only push | 12:45 |
| inz | So that notifications can be hidden too, if the event is handled elsewhere | 12:45 |
| tbr | ubuntu-touch seems to go through intermediate steps here and I'm not sure if that's good. They put messages in an mailbox structure, display system notifications and only then start an app that then needs to explicitly ask for its mailbox | 12:46 |
| inz | I guess that is good for preventing data loss | 12:46 |
| inz | But then again you would not lose the data, only the notification if things fail, which wouldn't be that bad | 12:47 |
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| inz | But delivering the data to app (or it's backend daemon) gives more flexibility wrt/notifications | 12:47 |
| inz | But the details are always balancing between the all-too-simple and way-too-complex | 12:50 |
| tbr | yeah, that's why I didn't consider that for now | 12:50 |
| inz | The telepathy D-Bus APIs are (in my experience) a good example of a powerful D-Bus API, but it is quite complex to use | 12:50 |
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| inz | tbr, btw, where can I has irssi notifier ;) | 13:00 |
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| inz | tbr, my old way of using shell title is not very elegant | 13:00 |
| tbr | inz: let me create an account on the test service for you | 13:01 |
| inz | tbr, that would be awesomest =) | 13:02 |
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| tbr | inz: the read account goes on the device. note that currently there is a bug in the irssi script that will make irssi block if the message can't be sent to the server. | 13:07 |
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| Stskeeps | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUREX8aFbMs#t=10 - Volcano Eruption in Papua New Guinea | 13:38 |
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| tbr | shockwave? | 13:43 |
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| tbr | ah, yes, fun | 13:46 |
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| r0kk3rz | tbr: the mailbox on ubuntu-touch makes sense now I think about it | 13:56 |
| r0kk3rz | as you cant guarantee that the endpoint services are running | 13:57 |
| r0kk3rz | or crashed, or otherwise not listening | 13:57 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: I still think its unnecessarily complicated. | 13:58 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: I could see it as an optional delivery method, maybe. Main thing you want though is that your app gets some message, now. | 13:59 |
| tbr | I guess they don't want to deal with random apps starting and doing things. | 13:59 |
| tbr | too bad they are so reclusive and unwilling to discuss things | 14:00 |
| r0kk3rz | well your proxy service is going to want to be fault tolerant | 14:00 |
| tbr | they have a mailing list but nobody posts there | 14:00 |
| r0kk3rz | so what is the action to take if the method call fails? drop notification? | 14:00 |
| tbr | I guess that could be defined. | 14:01 |
| r0kk3rz | fire and forget, or store and forward type pattern basically | 14:01 |
| tbr | MQTT also knows something called QoS | 14:01 |
| tbr | where 0 is "it might get there" and other layers then various levels of "it will get there for sure" | 14:01 |
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| tbr | given that this is my free time project I'm not really inclined to add much complexity though | 14:02 |
| tbr | unless of course people want to join in and help | 14:02 |
| Sail0r | r0kk3rz: mpris on it's way? | 14:02 |
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| r0kk3rz | Sail0r: got a basic mpris player interace in there today, need to implement the rest of the required items though | 14:05 |
| Sail0r | nice | 14:05 |
| Sail0r | :) | 14:05 |
| r0kk3rz | i think i'll need something that consumes the API though | 14:06 |
| r0kk3rz | because of course I can test my implementation, but is the implementation of the spec right? | 14:07 |
| Sail0r | I can test at least if it's working with pebbled which uses the mpris interface to communicate with the players | 14:07 |
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| r0kk3rz | well i poked around with quasarmx which helped me understand how it should act | 14:10 |
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| Sail0r | How do I get QtSparql ? Trying to build your project currently and it fails with qtspargl not found | 14:13 |
| r0kk3rz | through the sailfish menu in qtc | 14:13 |
| r0kk3rz | i wrote up a step by step here >> http://sailfishwayfarer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/qt5sparql-and-tracker.html | 14:14 |
| tbr | ooh, I spy a blog to be added to the sailfish planet | 14:14 |
| r0kk3rz | i wouldnt test it yet | 14:14 |
| r0kk3rz | theres only a very small amount of methods exposed there | 14:15 |
| r0kk3rz | ie play, pause, stop, next, previous | 14:15 |
| Sail0r | that's all I need at the moment ;) | 14:17 |
| r0kk3rz | give it a try | 14:18 |
| r0kk3rz | but it might be missing things it needs | 14:18 |
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| Sail0r | does not build at the moment http://fpaste.org/131507/10013198/ | 14:20 |
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| tbr | updated: http://planet.devaamo.fi/sailfish/ | 14:21 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe i didnt save before throwing it up on git | 14:22 |
| Sail0r | hehe | 14:22 |
| r0kk3rz | builds in my environment atm, i'll double check then update git | 14:22 |
| Sail0r | displaying the currently played song via mpris is much more complex i think | 14:23 |
| Sail0r | because it's a huge array isn't it? | 14:24 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah havent even looked at that yet | 14:25 |
| r0kk3rz | but shouldnt be too hard | 14:25 |
| Sail0r | it looks very huge when looking for it with dbus-monitor when quasarmx changes the song ^^ | 14:26 |
| r0kk3rz | git has my latest code | 14:26 |
| Sail0r | builds now :) | 14:27 |
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| r0kk3rz | thats a start | 14:30 |
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| mefisto | yeap | 14:32 |
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| r0kk3rz | Sail0r: did it work? | 16:07 |
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| Sailor8545 | hello sailors | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | moo | 18:51 |
| DrainBamaged | Baa | 18:51 |
| Sailor8545 | is it just my illusion, or number of new apps in store is just lower and lower? :/ | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | well, summer is a strong season for app development | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | people are on holidays | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | it all goes downhill after there.. :P | 18:52 |
| Sailor8545 | ah right | 18:52 |
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| Shinryuu | hehe | 18:59 |
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| r0kk3rz | need qtsparql to be allowed before my app can get on the official store | 19:03 |
| r0kk3rz | and possibly others now | 19:04 |
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| kimmoli | tbr: my daughter jolla suffers from sudden reboots during video capture (in a crowded place, lots of teens there). I will take some closeup-photos from contactarea tomorrow before rubbing. lubricant not yet arrived. | 19:20 |
| tbr | kimmoli: ah, great, finally a test subject we can examine :) | 19:21 |
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| kimmoli | my colleague did broke front-glass from his jolla, have to overtalk to him selling it to me... | 19:21 |
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| Yaniel | is anyone else annoyed by the fact that te fastest way to clearthe play queue is to restart the mediaplayer app? | 19:24 |
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| tadzik | I didn't even notice, there's many stupid things about the mediaplayer app :) | 19:25 |
| r0kk3rz | this is why i wrote my own | 19:25 |
| r0kk3rz | easier to fix annoyances that way | 19:25 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm a spotify user. i will admit, i don't use the media player app :P | 19:27 |
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| Stskeeps | then again, i rarely touch my mp3 collection either | 19:27 |
| tadzik | I still think the stock media app is closest to what I want one to be | 19:27 |
| tadzik | because it does have a concept of a play queue | 19:27 |
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| Yaniel | yes but it still needs some tweaking | 19:27 |
| tadzik | sure | 19:27 |
| tadzik | I wish it was open | 19:28 |
| r0kk3rz | mine has a play queue | 19:28 |
| tadzik | but it doesn't have an artist view yet, right | 19:28 |
| Yaniel | I wish tracker would be fixed too | 19:28 |
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| tadzik | I'm looking forward to it :) | 19:28 |
| r0kk3rz | nah not yet | 19:28 |
| tadzik | I'm glad you're doing this so I don't have to :P | 19:28 |
| tadzik | I'm too lazy to get anything done these days | 19:29 |
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| tadzik | must be something with steam on linux | 19:29 |
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| Yaniel | hehe | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | +1 | 19:31 |
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| r0kk3rz | trackers not so bad, perhaps needs more event based mining | 19:37 |
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| Yaniel | I'mstill not seeing album covers though | 19:38 |
| r0kk3rz | thats probably not trackers fault | 19:40 |
| r0kk3rz | and depends on where they are defined | 19:41 |
| Yaniel | cover.jpg files in the album folders | 19:41 |
| Yaniel | and actually it works for mp3 files | 19:42 |
| Yaniel | both the separate file and embedded covers | 19:42 |
| Yaniel | but not for flac nor aac | 19:43 |
| tadzik | I always have to bump the tracker myself, but I copy files through sshfs | 19:43 |
| meklu | sshfs doesn't sound too great :/ | 19:43 |
| Yaniel | sshfs is awesome | 19:44 |
| meklu | the idea of a network-mounted userspace filesystem... | 19:44 |
| meklu | *brr* | 19:44 |
| tadzik | it's the only way with MTP :/ | 19:44 |
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| Yaniel | I used rsync over ssh though | 19:44 |
| meklu | I just rsync my stuff over ssh | 19:44 |
| tadzik | that's good too | 19:44 |
| tadzik | but when I'm fixing tags with find and id3tool I use sshfs | 19:44 |
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| tango_ | btw, does anybody know of a car cellphone holder that works with the jolla? | 20:37 |
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| Stskeeps | shouldn't the usual universal ones do? | 20:39 |
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| tango_ | Stskeeps: no idea | 20:49 |
| Nicd- | for some reason charging my jolla from my car charger is really really slow | 20:50 |
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| Nicd- | even though the same charger works for my wife's iphone quite fine | 20:50 |
| tango_ | Nicd-: it might tell the iphone "i'm an iphone charger, you can draw more amps" | 20:51 |
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| Nicd- | I dunno, it's supposed to offer 2A for a single device and 1A for two devices | 20:55 |
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| teve | I've a 2.1A deltaco charger and usually phones (jolla/n9) complain that there is no enough current available. | 21:13 |
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| teve | and really old nokia chager at work (around 300mA ) charges phones w/o problems. | 21:16 |
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| coderus | TMavica: :D | 21:26 |
| coderus | why you can't explain your problem from beginning, why i need to ask it? :D | 21:27 |
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| coderus | r0kk3rz: stop spamming with your nickname change :D | 21:31 |
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| meklu | wowie | 21:40 |
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| meklu | that is one flaky connection | 21:40 |
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| pdanek | http://youtu.be/MOXQo7nURs0 | 22:03 |
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| phlixi_ | r0kk3rz: are you trying to save traffic by beeing here only half the time? | 23:07 |
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| tadzik | he's blinking back and forth between the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane | 23:13 |
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| ShadowJK | cool, flashlight is no longer spyware? only now noticed :) | 23:15 |
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| tadzik | waht :o | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | ? | 23:18 |
| tadzik | flashlight used to be spyware? | 23:18 |
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| ShadowJK | ya | 23:18 |
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| peppelakappa | if i am not wrong, there was some sort of "usage data reporter" | 23:18 |
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| ShadowJK | yes | 23:19 |
| ShadowJK | Reported on when you used it, how long, how often,etc etc | 23:19 |
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| phlixi | naturally i would not expect that from an maemo/harmattan/jolla app | 23:21 |
| phlixi | ...where as I would exped an android/ios app to do at least that... | 23:21 |
| peppelakappa | +1 | 23:21 |
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| phlixi | or to be more specific, apps from official major stores for ios /android (woulndt expect that from f-droid as well) | 23:23 |
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