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| mcfrisk | did something in latest updates break mms, or change/reset the settings? mms receiving worked several weeks back but now i see just downloading circle, persist after reboot too. | 05:11 |
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| krnlyng | hi, if i reboot my jolla it doesn't ask for a pin code, it only asks for the pin code if i try to call someone, is there a fix for that? | 06:27 |
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| krnlyng | also if i reboot my jolla all shortcuts (swipe to close and the lockscreen pulley menu entries) are gone (probably other settings too, idk) is there a fix for that? | 06:29 |
| krnlyng | Stskeeps: do you know what could be causing this? | 06:31 |
| Nicd- | krnlyng: do you have dev mode on? | 06:32 |
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| krnlyng | Nicd-: yes | 06:32 |
| Nicd- | try in the terminal 'devel-su btrfs fi show' | 06:33 |
| chriadam | krnlyng: difference between lock code (device lock) and puk (pin) code, guess | 06:33 |
| chriadam | I guess* | 06:33 |
| Nicd- | chriadam: pin code should be asked on every reboot | 06:34 |
| Nicd- | right after lock code | 06:34 |
| chriadam | oh | 06:34 |
| Nicd- | because there is no mobile connectivity until the sim has been unlocked | 06:35 |
| krnlyng | Nicd-: http://pastebin.com/BjHsKH6G | 06:35 |
| Nicd- | your filesystem is full | 06:36 |
| Nicd- | krnlyng: read this: https://together.jolla.com/question/30822/root-and-home-disks-full-and-causing-various-problems/ | 06:37 |
| krnlyng | Nicd-: weird because df -h shows it is not full | 06:37 |
| Nicd- | it's not full because you filled it with stuff, it's full because btrfs allocated all the space (this is not shown in df or other tools) | 06:37 |
| Nicd- | the fs being full leads to all kind of strange stuff | 06:38 |
| Nicd- | sad that this is still happening | 06:40 |
| stephg | it's a btrfs thing that may or may not go away | 06:41 |
| * stephg today I will mostly be wearing my black TOH | 06:41 | |
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| Yaniel | well my fs is far from full | 06:47 |
| Yaniel | and I still don't get asked for the pin | 06:47 |
| Yaniel | I have to go to settings -> cellular network -> enable sim | 06:47 |
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| krnlyng | i just saw that df and mount report that mmcblkp28 is both mounted as / and /home which seems weird because if i do ls i see different content in / and /home why is that :O? | 07:04 |
| Stskeeps | btrfs | 07:04 |
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| Nicd- | krnlyng: it's explained in the tjc post I linked | 07:06 |
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| krnlyng | it only says, that mmcblk0p28 contains the / swap and /home mountpoints but not more, i assume that this is a btrfs feature? | 07:10 |
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| krnlyng | Nicd-: i've run balance on /home but the problems still exist :'( | 07:24 |
| krnlyng | on /home and on / | 07:24 |
| Nicd- | what about fi show? | 07:24 |
| Nicd- | what does it say now? | 07:25 |
| krnlyng | Nicd-: http://pastebin.com/hMSTauEV | 07:25 |
| krnlyng | should be fine? | 07:25 |
| Nicd- | yep | 07:25 |
| Nicd- | could try rebooting | 07:25 |
| krnlyng | did that, twice | 07:26 |
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| Nicd- | then it's something else I guess | 07:27 |
| Nicd- | in addition to the fs fullness | 07:28 |
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| krnlyng | Nicd-: are there any log files to look at? or how could i debug this? | 07:43 |
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| HtheB | what a bummer.... | 07:51 |
| HtheB | thank you Jolla "repair" center... | 07:51 |
| HtheB | Jolla care asked me to send my phone for repair procedure. And the only thing they did, is add a couchen to the battery and cleaning the pins.... I won't call that a repair... | 07:53 |
| Stskeeps | you'd be surprised - that is a probable repair procedure | 07:54 |
| HtheB | If they just told me that I can just put a piece of paper, i wont be losing my phone for a week... | 07:55 |
| Stskeeps | a piece of paper is not a repair :P | 07:55 |
| HtheB | or they could simply snailmail a sticky couchen for the battery.... | 07:55 |
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| HtheB | 1) it's a lot cheaper - 2) a lot faster - 3) the user wont have to send in his device | 07:56 |
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| narchie | so I'm thinking I should just hang in tight even if I have reboot issues still :S | 08:00 |
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| HtheB | :( | 08:04 |
| Stskeeps | narchie: if you have reboot issues, contact care, simple as that | 08:05 |
| dr_gogeta86 | good morning peeps | 08:06 |
| Stskeeps | if you don't try to fix it you don't get to complain; and we all want to keep our complanining rights ;) | 08:06 |
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| pp | HtheB: they might want to know that their fix is valid etc. | 08:12 |
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| HtheB | pp: I hope so. I will keep monitoring it | 08:13 |
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| tadzik | hm, what do Poor Maps have than the stock maps don't? | 09:06 |
| tadzik | I've seen people praising it, but it doesn't seem to do anything more than the regular maps do | 09:06 |
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| messerting | Hi, does anyone have a guide on how to create a "link to web page as app", ie. a .desktop file or something? | 11:35 |
| SK_work | messerting: why do you want that ? :) | 11:36 |
| messerting | SK_work: Because there are several web pages that are much better than "apps" | 11:37 |
| messerting | For example a link to an animated weather radar | 11:37 |
| SK_work | messerting: one sec | 11:37 |
| messerting | Used it a lot on my N9 | 11:37 |
| SK_work | messerting: http://www.mail-archive.com/devel@lists.sailfishos.org/msg04486.html | 11:37 |
| SK_work | see "* Add shortcuts to webpages in the launcher area" | 11:38 |
| SK_work | so wait for next release ? | 11:38 |
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| messerting | SK_work: Thanks, I guess I can wait... | 11:38 |
| tadzik | the update will probably just give you an easy way to do it, but you should be able to do that anyway | 11:39 |
| tadzik | just craft a .desktop file that runs 'sailfish-browser 2048tile.co' or whatever | 11:39 |
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| coderus | http://paste.kde.org/p6ykvpfhv <- link to page in launcher | 11:46 |
| coderus | you can use base64 icon or set to file | 11:47 |
| Oni^ | tadzik: just change type of .desktop file to link | 11:48 |
| coderus | Oni^: exactly :) | 11:48 |
| tadzik | messerting: ^ forwarding to you :) | 11:48 |
| pp | heh, just in time for an update, random poweroff (pwr_on_by_HW_SMPL) :P | 11:49 |
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| Oni^ | and add url-field like URL=http://online-go.com | 11:51 |
| tadzik | those surprise poweroffs are quite worrying | 11:52 |
| tadzik | reminds me of the usb problem on the N900 | 11:52 |
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| ruskie | hmmm think this might be the reason why xmpp gtalk account doesn't work... oauth it seems needed to auth it | 12:08 |
| ruskie | after I added a google account it signed me into the other account as well | 12:09 |
| ruskie | now I removed it the google account remains there greyed out | 12:09 |
| ryukafalz | I don't think you should need oauth for gtalk o.o | 12:09 |
| ryukafalz | it's straight XMPP unless they've changed something | 12:09 |
| ruskie | then no clue why plain xmpp gtalk never connects | 12:09 |
| ruskie | also what I'm still trying to figure out is this: https://together.jolla.com/question/43177/how-to-use-google-calendar-without-contacs-sync/ | 12:10 |
| ruskie | because I don't get the same screen tadzik gets | 12:10 |
| tadzik | yeah, that's odd | 12:10 |
| * ryukafalz sadly doesn't have a Jolla so he can't test | 12:11 | |
| ryukafalz | eyeing some nexus 4s on ebay though >.> | 12:11 |
| tadzik | I'm pretty sure gtalk can work as a regular xmpp | 12:11 |
| tadzik | not that it's very good at it :o | 12:11 |
| ryukafalz | it can, I've done it many times | 12:11 |
| ryukafalz | though google is being... finicky about it | 12:11 |
| ruskie | http://imgur.com/Nf8Y7MX <-- if I go off of this... I don't have contacts or contact events everything under syncdetails though is the same | 12:11 |
| ruskie | well seems like the gtalk xmpp now works so atleast that's sorted... not that I'll be using it much(just in case I'm not at office and need to recevie the icinga notifications) | 12:12 |
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| * ryukafalz wishes telepathy-gabble supported stream management :( | 12:13 | |
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| ryukafalz | upstream things, blah | 12:13 |
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| ruskie | still find it odd that after I remove the google account the gtalk bit still receieves messages | 12:15 |
| ruskie | even seen the greyed out account in the presence details | 12:15 |
| ruskie | still better than before when it was invisible totaly | 12:15 |
| tadzik | btw, I made the media tracker bail out again by copying Music from phone storage to SDcard and then deleting the former | 12:15 |
| tadzik | I admit, I was doing this over SSH because MTP sucks, but now there's no way to listen to my music until I manually bump the tracker in the terminal | 12:16 |
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| ruskie | haven't bothered trying music on it yet | 12:17 |
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| ggabriel | tadzik: happened the same to me, but not hte last time | 12:17 |
| ggabriel | the only different thing i did was changing permissions | 12:18 |
| ggabriel | but it seems to be erratic | 12:18 |
| ruskie | what I would like to do is find a way to deny all access to android runtime to any data/connections/etc... | 12:18 |
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| * ggabriel really tempted to provide a solution to the android problem | 12:21 | |
| ruskie | until I figure that one out I simply don't have android support installed hehe | 12:22 |
| ruskie | and frankly am more happy with native apps anyway | 12:22 |
| tadzik | I wish there was a geocaching app | 12:22 |
| ruskie | just thinkngi might be nice to run some of those humble bundle android apps on it someitems | 12:23 |
| tadzik | If no one starts developing one I'll start one after vacation | 12:23 |
| Nicd- | tadzik: c:geo works pretty nicely I've found | 12:23 |
| ryukafalz | geocaching app would be awesome :O | 12:23 |
| ggabriel | like modrana? | 12:24 |
| ruskie | hmm there's no dbul-launch that one could prepend to commands to get them access to dbus? and no run-standalone.sh that I can find so far as well | 12:24 |
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| Nicd- | modrana is not a geocaching app | 12:24 |
| * ggabriel wonders what a geocaching application is | 12:24 | |
| ruskie | grab info about caches from geocaching.com | 12:25 |
| ruskie | and prob some extra navigation added | 12:25 |
| Nicd- | and log them | 12:25 |
| tadzik | Nicd-: yeah, but I meant a native app :) | 12:25 |
| pp | agtl just needs a port ;) | 12:25 |
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| tadzik | agtl is not very good though :( | 12:25 |
| tadzik | last time I used it it constantly crashed on premium caches | 12:26 |
| tadzik | "downloading 79/80... ooh, a python exception, I'll not show you any" | 12:26 |
| tadzik | so I needed to narrow a map until I find a range where there are no premium caches | 12:26 |
| pp | pretty unmaintained nowadays yea :( | 12:26 |
| tadzik | huh, modrana doesn't smoothly zoom in and out? I thought it did that on n900 in modrana-qml :| | 12:28 |
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| Nicd- | that was life with the N900 | 12:29 |
| Nicd- | had to manually patch the python code from time to time | 12:29 |
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| Nicd- | wow, that was some lag | 12:30 |
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| Nicd- | seems I was not the only one | 12:30 |
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| ryukafalz | whoa, that... doesn't look like it was a netsplit though? | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | probably just bad connectivity | 12:51 |
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| * ryukafalz nods | 12:52 | |
| M4rtinK | tadzik: patches welcome :) | 12:52 |
| ryukafalz | didn't even notice it since I have joinquit filtered out, heh | 12:52 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, I am not agains adding geocaching suppirt to modRana | 12:53 |
| M4rtinK | or tools related to geocaching | 12:53 |
| M4rtinK | it is just that my "plate" is already full with other feature requests | 12:54 |
| M4rtinK | like offline routing, tracklogs, overlays, etc. :) | 12:54 |
| ryukafalz | oh dang modRana looks nice | 12:54 |
| M4rtinK | ryukafalz: thanks! | 12:55 |
| ryukafalz | M4rtinK: Does it have a generic non-Silica UI too? The screenshots page has a header for that but no screenshots :P | 12:55 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, for historical perspective - the QtQuick map widget (PinchMap) modRana uses comes originally from AGTL :) | 12:56 |
| M4rtinK | ryukafalz: it does | 12:56 |
| M4rtinK | actually the GUI can use different backends | 12:57 |
| M4rtinK | currently Silica and QtQuick Controls | 12:57 |
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| M4rtinK | ryukafalz: it looks like this http://modrana.org/images/qt5_gui/ | 13:00 |
| M4rtinK | ryukafalz: with Controls, same code | 13:00 |
| M4rtinK | it is handy during development as I can run moRana directly and not on the device | 13:01 |
| ryukafalz | yeah | 13:02 |
| ryukafalz | also on non-sailfish devices ;) | 13:02 |
| M4rtinK | should also run on other platforms such as BB10 and Android | 13:02 |
| M4rtinK | yep :) | 13:02 |
| ryukafalz | and Nemo :D | 13:02 |
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| ryukafalz | looking at this, it's based on Rana which... hmm, I actually have a Neo XD | 13:04 |
| * ryukafalz doesn't think GPS would be very nice on that tiny display though | 13:05 | |
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| M4rtinK | me too :) | 13:05 |
| M4rtinK | easn't that bad | 13:05 |
| M4rtinK | *wasnt | 13:05 |
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| ryukafalz | ah, it looks like it's got a pretty well-designed UI actually | 13:06 |
| ryukafalz | unlike some with tiny controls :P | 13:06 |
| ryukafalz | (keyboard, I'm looking at you) | 13:06 |
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| M4rtinK | modRana actually still supports Neo | 13:06 |
| M4rtinK | with the GTK gui | 13:06 |
| ryukafalz | :O huh | 13:06 |
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| M4rtinK | people still report using it there from time to time | 13:07 |
| M4rtinK | but it is getting motr seldom :) | 13:08 |
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| M4rtinK | *more | 13:08 |
| ryukafalz | well there are much much fancier devices on the market now haha | 13:08 |
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| ryukafalz | but it's cool that it's still compatible that far back :) | 13:09 |
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| M4rtinK | yeah :) | 13:09 |
| tadzik | M4rtinK: yeah, but wasn't that feature already there? | 13:09 |
| tadzik | in modrana-qml that is | 13:10 |
| M4rtinK | geocaching ? | 13:10 |
| SK_work | https://together.jolla.com/question/49643/the-voice-of-jolla-community/ | 13:10 |
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| tadzik | M4rtinK: no, the "fluent" zooming, I can't remember the word for it | 13:12 |
| tadzik | not even in Polish :o | 13:12 |
| M4rtinK | nope, Im sure it never was there | 13:12 |
| ryukafalz | like a pinch to zoom type thing? | 13:12 |
| M4rtinK | the code is jus not there :) | 13:12 |
| M4rtinK | pinch to zoom is supported | 13:12 |
| M4rtinK | but zoom is still a direct switch | 13:13 |
| tadzik | discrete! That was the word | 13:13 |
| M4rtinK | so as you pinch, it switches directly from on zoom level to another | 13:13 |
| tadzik | so continuous zoom is the thing I was missing | 13:14 |
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| M4rtinK | I'll have to check | 13:15 |
| M4rtinK | it might be possible to hack it in somehow :) | 13:15 |
| tadzik | would be awesome :) | 13:15 |
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| SK_work | M4rtinK: zoom the image | 13:18 |
| M4rtinK | but no promises, the way how it works is already pretty crazy | 13:19 |
| SK_work | and when the zoom is finished compute which zoom factor is the best | 13:19 |
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| M4rtinK | zooming ap and down from a layer should be fine | 13:21 |
| M4rtinK | but switching to the next one could be tricky | 13:21 |
| M4rtinK | with a smooth transition | 13:23 |
| M4rtinK | because currently it does not actually create and destroy some transient tile elements as you move the map | 13:24 |
| M4rtinK | but there is a fixed tile matrix covering the screen | 13:25 |
| M4rtinK | and the elements change their identity as you move the screen, zoom, etc | 13:26 |
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| M4rtinK | so if you zoom continuously, you scale the elements | 13:28 |
| M4rtinK | but then when you reach the threshold of switching to the next layer | 13:28 |
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| M4rtinK | I'm not really sure how well it would work :) | 13:29 |
| M4rtinK | but we will see :) | 13:29 |
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| M4rtinK | in any case, feature request noted (and patches welcome!) :) | 13:36 |
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| tadzik | so it's like bump-mapping, or whatsitsname | 13:43 |
| tadzik | I think the way google maps do that is they zoom the existing layer until you stop zooming for a moment, and then they switch to the new tile | 13:43 |
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| M4rtinK | tadzik: yeah, that might work | 13:48 |
| tadzik | sounds like fun to implement it, actually :P | 13:48 |
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| M4rtinK | hh | 13:48 |
| tadzik | so if you can wait 2 weeks and then be ready to listen to me hating python, count me in :P | 13:49 |
| M4rtinK | hh | 13:49 |
| Bysmyyr | I like to see some program which can download areas for offline use? | 13:49 |
| M4rtinK | tadzik: ok, counting on you :) | 13:49 |
| tadzik | everybody wants that except map providers :| | 13:49 |
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| tadzik | I think they even outright forbid it | 13:50 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, modRana supports batch tile download | 13:50 |
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| M4rtinK | there is just no QML GUI for it yet | 13:50 |
| Bysmyyr | :P | 13:50 |
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| M4rtinK | well, I see this as user responsibility | 13:51 |
| M4rtinK | modRana is a tool and it is their choise how to use it | 13:52 |
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| M4rtinK | *choice | 13:52 |
| tadzik | good attitude | 13:52 |
| Bysmyyr | but not usefull to everyone | 13:52 |
| Bysmyyr | maybe for me but definetely not to my father or girlfriend | 13:53 |
| ggabriel | somebody can always make it | 13:54 |
| ggabriel | M4rtinK is almost too nice as modrana king when it comes to patches/troubleshooting/etc ;) | 13:55 |
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| M4rtinK | ggabriel: thanks! :) | 13:55 |
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| parasemic | hi | 13:59 |
| parasemic | so i got my phone back from repair and the connection issues are still very much present... | 13:59 |
| Stskeeps | what kind of connection issues? | 14:00 |
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| parasemic | the 3G connection keeps dropping consistently | 14:07 |
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| tadzik | argh. TIL: Silence Sounds won't silence android apps | 14:10 |
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| Nicd- | tadzik: silence sounds in what way? | 14:12 |
| tadzik | Nicd-: from the pulley menu on the lock screen | 14:13 |
| Nicd- | that's for notifications | 14:13 |
| tadzik | now I know that it means the ringing sounds, but the crossed out note fooled me :) | 14:13 |
| Nicd- | it won't silence jolla apps either | 14:14 |
| Nicd- | sailfish apps* | 14:14 |
| tadzik | I see | 14:14 |
| Nicd- | you have to slide your volume down to nothing for that | 14:14 |
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| parasemic | that's really stupid | 14:23 |
| parasemic | except for maybe audio playback features, if played | 14:23 |
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| Nicd- | well I think it has good and bad sides | 14:28 |
| Nicd- | it's good that I can watch a youtube video but still keep my phone from ringing without having to switch back and forth | 14:28 |
| Nicd- | but of course then it's more work to completely silence the phone | 14:28 |
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| giucam | install alsamixer and mute the channel ;) | 14:29 |
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| FireFly | I'd expect "silence sounds" to mean "stay quiet at all costs" | 14:38 |
| FireFly | like a hardware mute, more or less | 14:38 |
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| flux | that's not actually what many expect. for example many expect alarm clock to work in silenced mode. to facilitate turning the phone to silence mode during nights.. | 14:40 |
| tadzik | alsamixer? I suppose sailfish uses pulseaudio and all that | 14:41 |
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| tadzik | oh, I just put the phone in airplane mode for the night :) | 14:41 |
| tadzik | saves battery too | 14:41 |
| flux | well, can you automatically take it out from it?-) I have the silencer app. | 14:42 |
| flux | also I'm not particularly worrying about battery consumption, I charge the phone during the nights.. | 14:43 |
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| FireFly | flux: well, I keep my ringtone volume at 0 at all times, since I either keep my phone in my pocket or at the desk next to me anyway | 14:53 |
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| FireFly | So in that light it makes sense to use "silence sounds" in a cinema or exam context... | 14:54 |
| flux | how about vibration? | 14:54 |
| FireFly | Yeah, I keep vibration on | 14:54 |
| flux | so I like to disable vibration during nights | 14:54 |
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| * ryukafalz keeps his phone on silent due to using a smartwatch | 15:37 | |
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| AL13N_jolla | cant reach store... normal? | 16:07 |
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| AL13N_jolla | hmm looks like its back | 16:08 |
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| stephg | AL13N_jolla: probably prep for the update | 16:13 |
| * stephg runs | 16:13 | |
| AL13N_jolla | hahaha... | 16:13 |
| AL13N_jolla | gtg eat. | 16:13 |
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| lainwir3d | stephg: haha, as soon as he said that I clicked on "Check for updates" on my Jolla :P | 16:14 |
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| TemeV | oh, there is flappy bird port for sailfish :D | 16:29 |
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| coderus | port, sure | 17:24 |
| coderus | there is also port of here maps called sailfish maps :D | 17:24 |
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| pdanek | What happened me today. | 18:25 |
| inte | hello I also ran into the btrfs-full-issue | 18:26 |
| pdanek | After unlocking Jolla, 1st screen was OK (upper), 2nd sceen too (middle) but when I switched to 3rd screen with icons --> no icons were visible, only the background. | 18:26 |
| inte | the balance commend returns in error because the filesystem is too full | 18:27 |
| inte | .cache is ca. 400mb | 18:27 |
| pdanek | Locking / unlocking device didn't help. | 18:27 |
| pdanek | Going into settings app and back didn't help. | 18:27 |
| pdanek | I had to shutdown + start. | 18:27 |
| inte | including roughly 210mb from store-tracker | 18:27 |
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| inte | is it save to remove the entire .cache directory? | 18:27 |
| inte | should be rebuild automatically, right? | 18:27 |
| inte | hopefully balance will work after removal | 18:28 |
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| pdanek | Stskeeps: Did you have the same issue? | 18:32 |
| giucam | pdanek: journalctl may contain some log from lipstick about it | 18:33 |
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| Sail0r | a cooperation with pebble instead of younited or angry birds would be cool ;) | 18:38 |
| special | mail pebble and suggest it | 18:39 |
| Sail0r | already asked ^^ | 18:39 |
| Nicd- | inte: did you read the whole btrfs thread? | 18:43 |
| inte | thread_ | 18:43 |
| inte | thread? | 18:43 |
| Nicd- | in together.jolla.com | 18:43 |
| inte | no only read the version at tjc | 18:43 |
| inte | ah | 18:43 |
| Nicd- | just removing files may not help | 18:44 |
| inte | well yes I think so | 18:44 |
| inte | i thought i could run the balance thing afterward | 18:44 |
| inte | i thought i could run the balance thing afterwards | 18:44 |
| Nicd- | did you try the "emptying a file" suggestions? | 18:44 |
| inte | or should I rather echo NULL into big files to do that | 18:45 |
| inte | no not yet | 18:45 |
| inte | ok i will | 18:45 |
| inte | so i should rather empty every large file in .cache? | 18:45 |
| inte | than deleting it | 18:45 |
| inte | ? | 18:45 |
| inte | I will try that with tracker-db since this file is 250mb or sth. | 18:46 |
| Nicd- | don't just try on some files willy nilly | 18:46 |
| Nicd- | or at least make a backup to your SD card if you have one :P | 18:47 |
| inte | currently backing up .cache through ssh | 18:48 |
| inte | :) | 18:48 |
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| inte | thought i would start with .cach as it would hopefully be rebuild and eventually nothing gets lost anyway | 18:49 |
| pdanek | giucam: how to show journalctl entries before reboot? | 18:50 |
| pdanek | -- Logs begin at Mon 2014-07-07 20:40:58 CEST, end at Mon 2014-07-07 20:49:28 CEST. -- --> that's because of reboot | 18:50 |
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| giucam | pdanek: not sure, check journalctl help | 18:51 |
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| inte | Nicd-: shouldnt freeing ~210MB be enough to savely run the balance thing or did I missunderstand the entire problem? | 18:52 |
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| pdanek | giucam: ok tried, but seems that log is cleaned upon reboot | 18:53 |
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| Nicd- | inte: destroying files doesn't necessarily result in freed btrfs space | 18:57 |
| inte | inte: according to tjc emptying files is only recomended if its not possible to remove them | 18:57 |
| Nicd- | then follow their directions :) | 18:58 |
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| inte | i will | 19:02 |
| inte | still my initial question: is it save to remove .cache? | 19:03 |
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| pdanek | What do you think about Richard Stallman? Do you consider him as serious person, or more of a hippie idealist? | 19:10 |
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| cb400f | both, you think being a serious person is contradictory to being a hippie idealist? ;-) | 19:11 |
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| RzR | someone who debugged gcc using emacs (you can mix the words) should deserve respect | 19:12 |
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| RzR | “It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow.” | 19:13 |
| RzR | pdanek, why a such question ? | 19:13 |
| till | does the jolla already support VoLTE? | 19:13 |
| RzR | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_%28telecommunication%29 | 19:14 |
| RzR | humm | 19:14 |
| inte | Didn't Stallmann recently suggest Apple should make an Android phone? | 19:14 |
| inte | Can't follow him in this point... | 19:14 |
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| RzR | inte, did he ? I thought he hate all phones (jp1 inc) | 19:15 |
| pdanek | RzR: I respect Stallman, I just used words how he's often called on internet, I'm just curious about Jolla guys opinion of Mr. Stallman, no other reason really. | 19:15 |
| inte | till: is there any network that already implemented that? | 19:15 |
| pdanek | To be honest.... I loved his talks 10 years ago. | 19:15 |
| till | i think mine (o2 germany) has | 19:15 |
| pdanek | Nowadays, he seems a bit extreme. | 19:15 |
| inte | and is there a final standard for VoLTE at all? | 19:15 |
| RzR | pdanek, dont expect him to support any phone manufacturer that ship closed bits | 19:15 |
| pdanek | = he won't support Jolla as well | 19:15 |
| RzR | yea | 19:16 |
| RzR | or even openmoko | 19:16 |
| RzR | well i cant speak for him | 19:16 |
| pdanek | the only acceptable "modern" phone for Richard may be Neo900? | 19:16 |
| RzR | unsure | 19:16 |
| RzR | http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/03/15/0432226/Richard-Stallman-Cell-Phones-Are-Stalins-Dream | 19:17 |
| pdanek | At the same time, I totally respect that, it is just something that lowers his respect as "leader", because he is very subjective. | 19:17 |
| RzR | future will tell | 19:17 |
| RzR | or past | 19:18 |
| RzR | if you look at the prism revelations | 19:18 |
| pdanek | I follow them very well and I do care, but not to such extent as some people. | 19:19 |
| pdanek | I need golden middle between security and productivity. | 19:19 |
| RzR | who said you cant have both : security and privacy ? | 19:20 |
| pdanek | Going full security is maybe idealist, but insane to communicate online productively. | 19:20 |
| pdanek | idealistic* | 19:20 |
| RzR | no privacy does not fell me more secure ... | 19:20 |
| RzR | well it does depend of the context isnt it ? | 19:20 |
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| pdanek | TBH, I was just watching another interview with Richard and I thought I can ask. | 19:21 |
| RzR | if your life depends on pricacy, security .. or productivity ? | 19:21 |
| pdanek | I'm very well privacy aware person. | 19:21 |
| pdanek | But some stuff seems extreme to me. | 19:21 |
| till | my operator supports VoLTE since last winter: http://www.theunwired.net/?item=breakthrough-telefonica-o2-germany-launches-the-fastest-lte-radio-cell-in-germany-as-well-as-volte&6636 | 19:21 |
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| RzR | pdanek, maybe the situation is also extreme | 19:22 |
| RzR | pdanek, ie prism | 19:22 |
| RzR | etc | 19:22 |
| pdanek | You're right. | 19:22 |
| pdanek | The balance of privary, security and productivity is different for everyone. | 19:22 |
| pdanek | But, why should you only and exclusively trust to open-source technologies? | 19:24 |
| inte | till: oh you are right | 19:24 |
| inte | i dont know | 19:24 |
| RzR | pdanek, because evil hides :) | 19:25 |
| inte | no LTE with eplus yet... :( | 19:25 |
| till | okay they say it was only for internal testing and not yet released for public use | 19:25 |
| pdanek | Do we need to be so paranoid, that anything that is proprietary, even trusted companies, should be distrusted? | 19:25 |
| inte | till it is: http://blog.telefonica.de/2014/01/jetzt-endlich-moeglich-volte-handover-im-o2-live-netz/ | 19:25 |
| till | but they seem to have mastered the handover | 19:25 |
| special | pdanek: well, even well-intentioned companies can be compromised | 19:25 |
| special | see e.g. lavabit | 19:25 |
| pdanek | Yes. | 19:26 |
| special | you need transparency for "trust, but verify" | 19:26 |
| RzR | pdanek, could not be or not ... just like russian roulette | 19:26 |
| pdanek | The same way, you can be compromised. | 19:26 |
| inte | till oh no its not. | 19:26 |
| till | "some months..." :) | 19:26 |
| kimmoli | hmm.. the tohd config_data acts strangely. | 19:26 |
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| inte | till "live netz" obviously refers to the actual network but only to beta testers | 19:27 |
| inte | and as i said as far as i know the standard is not yet finalized by gsma as well | 19:27 |
| pdanek | Sorry, internet issues. | 19:28 |
| pdanek | They get your laptop, you don't tell then encryption passphrase, you go to jail. | 19:28 |
| RzR | pdanek, nsa ? | 19:28 |
| till | at least csfb seems to work, but always uses 2g instead of 3g | 19:28 |
| pdanek | RzR: tbh, I connect to neighbour's wifi at the moment (WEP key) | 19:28 |
| RzR | pdanek, this is an other issue ... if they get | 19:28 |
| pdanek | and I didn't manage to get access to their router and it breaks sometimes | 19:28 |
| pdanek | but I do it fair way and don't download too much, if... then in the night | 19:29 |
| pdanek | due to my temporary living stay, I didn't get my own net | 19:29 |
| RzR | pdanek, we on the state where "they' can read it remotely ... on the cloud service you use | 19:29 |
| pdanek | well, sure | 19:30 |
| RzR | pdanek, anyway to my eyes to biggest issue is not the watchers .. but the pple who dont even understand the concept of privacy | 19:30 |
| pdanek | still, I think trusting only ourselves is going backwards | 19:30 |
| RzR | pdanek, and its politic consequencies ... | 19:30 |
| inte | http://xkcd.com/538/ | 19:31 |
| pdanek | if you think about it.... and take it to extreme, we should only grow our vegetables, because you can't trust anyone to put poison in it etc. | 19:31 |
| RzR | yes it would make sense | 19:31 |
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| inte | pdanek: well but to be on the more-or-less secure site its wise to use an email provider who is NOT located in the US | 19:32 |
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| RzR | do you really believe that some pple would put a pesticide inside a veg ? | 19:32 |
| RzR | oh well... | 19:32 |
| tadzik | the nsa must've got him | 19:32 |
| inte | lol | 19:32 |
| RzR | :) | 19:32 |
| inte | :) | 19:32 |
| inte | the xkcd stip is actually about security, if you didn't get it :) | 19:33 |
| pdanek | The same way, we can develop mechanisms that regular cloud services will be audited by other governances and they won't have "back-doors". | 19:33 |
| pdanek | Same way as vegetables are regulated., | 19:33 |
| pdanek | Having everything hosted by ourselves is not the only solution. | 19:34 |
| RzR | like gmo ? | 19:34 |
| special | idle thought: architect a cloud services company so that data from each jurisdiction *and* all people with the ability or authority to access that data is located in another jurisdiction | 19:34 |
| inte | pdanek no but to choose a secure provider for our email is well in our capabilities | 19:34 |
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| RzR | btw do you use alt to email/smtp for communication ? | 19:35 |
| pdanek | Nowadays, cloud providers are not regulated. | 19:36 |
| pdanek | Vegetables are. | 19:36 |
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| RzR | one point | 19:36 |
| RzR | but regulated by who | 19:36 |
| RzR | and for what ? | 19:36 |
| RzR | or who ? | 19:36 |
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| pdanek | You have government hygienic agencies which check/audit grocery products. | 19:37 |
| inte | but not in the us | 19:37 |
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| pdanek | Ah. | 19:37 |
| special | pdanek: the US has agencies that check and audit software security, too. The problem is that they're the same agencies that compromise it for intelligence purposes. | 19:37 |
| RzR | and who are working in those agencies ? | 19:38 |
| inte | special: or this way:) | 19:38 |
| special | seriously: the NSA's mission is both to secure software and to compromise software | 19:38 |
| pdanek | special: I agree, that's indeed problem | 19:38 |
| pdanek | special: so going full self-privacy is maybe solution for now, but not the desired state | 19:38 |
| RzR | pdanek, could they be related to other activities ... like agro industries ? | 19:38 |
| special | pdanek: I like that people are thinking about security and privacy now. | 19:39 |
| RzR | now? | 19:39 |
| RzR | you mean 5mins ago ? | 19:39 |
| inte | sure, e.g. to secure Linux against backdoors implemented by the chinese/russian/whoever but on the other implement backdoors *they* would hopfully not find :) | 19:39 |
| special | I mean since the NSA and so forth became mainstream news | 19:39 |
| pdanek | RzR: he means last 2 years | 19:39 |
| pdanek | I guess | 19:39 |
| RzR | could this mean nobody cares ? | 19:40 |
| tadzik | people are not going to give up their conveniences for the sake of security. Not most of the people anyway | 19:40 |
| special | everyone has their personal threat model and tolerance. I like that people are thinking about it more now. | 19:40 |
| tadzik | of course nobody cares. People who finance the NSA are not doing anything about it | 19:40 |
| inte | i think there is indeed an increased awareness of security now | 19:40 |
| special | I'm fine with people who sacrifice security for convenience, but they should be at least aware when they're making that choice | 19:40 |
| inte | many people changed to threema after facebook took over whatsapp e.g. | 19:40 |
| pdanek | I see people from IT to care more than they did before. | 19:41 |
| pdanek | I see regular people to not care anyway. | 19:41 |
| special | people from IT are terrorists and extremists | 19:41 |
| special | (see also: linuxjournal) | 19:41 |
| pdanek | That's why I do think, that governments should do some steps -> maybe not US government, I don't know how it works there. | 19:41 |
| pdanek | But in Europe, privacy-concerned political parties are getting more and more members each year. | 19:41 |
| pdanek | I mean more and more votes. | 19:42 |
| inte | i would also think if we had the nsa story unvealed in 2009/2010 Nokia would have sold much better and would probably never had switched to WP | 19:42 |
| tadzik | yeah, right | 19:42 |
| tadzik | because so many people ditched android and ios after all this | 19:42 |
| pdanek | inte: I do not think it was the reason for Nokia. | 19:42 |
| slate | remember that there's also people who use whatsapp etc for sheit that does not matter if it goes to wrong hands, I keep my business away from it. | 19:43 |
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| inte | tadzik: now there is no alternative left anz more | 19:43 |
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| tadzik | oh, I can think of a few | 19:43 |
| pdanek | slate: people discuss business critical things over very poorly encrypted GSM, nobody gives a shit about privacy :( | 19:44 |
| tadzik | like, you know, the reason we're on this channel | 19:44 |
| special | I hear there's this new one from finland | 19:44 |
| tadzik | or firefox OS | 19:44 |
| special | forget the name, though | 19:44 |
| inte | in 2009/2010 symbian was still very common. At that time it was rather the question of changing to Android or rather not | 19:44 |
| slate | pdanek: yea, or email. | 19:44 |
| pdanek | Business email is usually encrypted. | 19:44 |
| pdanek | Phone is worse. | 19:44 |
| slate | not in every end. | 19:45 |
| pdanek | True. | 19:45 |
| inte | tadzik: you can hardly get a Jolla outside from finland | 19:45 |
| tadzik | um, no? | 19:45 |
| inte | plus hardly anybody knows about it | 19:45 |
| inte | tadzik: you can order it online. | 19:45 |
| tadzik | I ordered mine from eastern europe, it arrived within 2 days | 19:45 |
| special | more countries and more people every day. | 19:45 |
| inte | tadzik: most people buy their phones with their contracts | 19:45 |
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| tadzik | most people, yes | 19:45 |
| pdanek | tadzik: where are you from? | 19:46 |
| tadzik | but that doesn't mean that there is on alternative | 19:46 |
| tadzik | pdanek: Poland | 19:46 |
| inte | pdanek: i never send a single business email which was encrypted | 19:46 |
| RzR | <inte> i would also think if we had the nsa story unvealed in 2009/2010 Nokia would have sold much better and would probably never had switched to WP | 19:47 |
| RzR | would you trust more them ? | 19:47 |
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| special | inte: I've received a "to access this email, view it in our secure encrypted web portal with the password [plaintext password here]" :p | 19:47 |
| tadzik | damn! NSA has him again | 19:47 |
| RzR | and why ? | 19:47 |
| pdanek1 | tadzik: :D | 19:47 |
| tadzik | :) | 19:47 |
| pdanek1 | What messages did you get? | 19:47 |
| pdanek1 | I got disconnected. | 19:47 |
| special | also "we've uploaded all of your important business documents to a secure web portal ... the password is 'password1'" | 19:48 |
| special | true story :| | 19:48 |
| RzR | at least there was one | 19:48 |
| pdanek1 | I think the reason why people call Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland eastern Europe is because of communist history. But geographically, it's center, half east half west. Odd.... | 19:48 |
| pdanek1 | I'm Slovak myself, working in Poland. | 19:48 |
| pdanek1 | Like I come from western Slovakia, so if you cut it to 2 halves, I'm from western Europe, yet everyone will recognize me as eastern European. | 19:49 |
| tadzik | everything east of berlin wall is considered eastern europe, I don't see a reason to fight it now | 19:49 |
| RzR | pdanek1, remember, when you go to far enough on east you'll be on west | 19:49 |
| pdanek1 | tadzik: yea good point | 19:50 |
| pdanek1 | tadzik: so it's not about geography | 19:50 |
| tadzik | it sounds like it is :) | 19:50 |
| tadzik | <obligatory east-west xkcd> | 19:51 |
| pdanek1 | :D | 19:51 |
| pdanek1 | let me see | 19:51 |
| RzR | https://xkcd.com/503/ | 19:51 |
| tadzik | https://xkcd.com/503/ | 19:51 |
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| tadzik | RzR: answer honestly now: did you use google or duckduckgo? :D | 19:51 |
| RzR | i used scroogle | 19:52 |
| tadzik | oh hm | 19:52 |
| pdanek1 | HA, I found it sooner than a link! | 19:52 |
| RzR | and now i use both | 19:52 |
| pdanek1 | Google wins. | 19:52 |
| RzR | most of my work infra is on g | 19:52 |
| RzR | poor me | 19:52 |
| tadzik | mine poo | 19:52 |
| tadzik | erm, too | 19:52 |
| RzR | home i use imap.google.com | 19:52 |
| RzR | but this is far too much | 19:53 |
| tadzik | (yes, it's close on my keyboard) | 19:53 |
| RzR | yea google wins | 19:53 |
| RzR | and why should I trust more duckduckgo ? | 19:53 |
| pdanek1 | I tried duckduckgo many times but it has always failed my productivity minimum. | 19:53 |
| pdanek1 | :D | 19:53 |
| RzR | scroogle was fine | 19:54 |
| pdanek1 | So I have to trust the giant and use my common sense to keep important things away from it. | 19:54 |
| pdanek1 | But I won't throw away my phone and hide in the hole. | 19:54 |
| pdanek1 | :) | 19:54 |
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| inte | pdanek1: I use pgp for all my email | 19:55 |
| RzR | sounds like the most reasonable thing to be done :) | 19:55 |
| inte | and my provider supports dane and all that recent encryption stuff | 19:56 |
| RzR | inte, my mom cant read email that use gpg signature attached in mime | 19:56 |
| inte | still useable | 19:56 |
| inte | rzr set up her computer | 19:56 |
| pdanek1 | inte: https://code.google.com/p/end-to-end/ | 19:56 |
| RzR | on phone | 19:56 |
| inte | its not that i send all my mail encrypted | 19:56 |
| pdanek1 | inte: chrome extension released by Google itself --> no targeted ad with it | 19:57 |
| inte | but all incoming mail is automatically encrypted with my public key which is stored at my provider | 19:57 |
| RzR | inte, caring of your pricacy by your behaviour is not enough , never assume that | 19:57 |
| inte | pdanek1: i dont use chrome :) | 19:57 |
| pdanek1 | Me neither. | 19:57 |
| pdanek1 | Just saying. | 19:57 |
| pdanek1 | :D | 19:57 |
| inte | rzr yes i know | 19:57 |
| inte | thats the reason why i actually HAVE a facebook account (even though i barely use it) | 19:58 |
| inte | however, i have roughly 700 friends and at least the same number of likes :) | 19:58 |
| RzR | inte, dane? http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-osterweil-dane-ipsec-00 | 19:58 |
| inte | i'm just adding everyone and i like eveything :) | 19:58 |
| inte | cant be safer than not having it at all :) | 19:59 |
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| inte | my understanding of privacy ;) | 19:59 |
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| RzR | inte, do you display facebook likes on the web ? | 19:59 |
| RzR | if yes then you're also screwed | 19:59 |
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| inte | rzr? | 20:00 |
| inte | facebook likes? | 20:00 |
| RzR | cookies | 20:00 |
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| RzR | yes that damn small icon | 20:00 |
| inte | ah no i have those cookies disabled | 20:00 |
| RzR | http://techland.time.com/2011/09/26/facebook-cookies-work-even-if-youre-logged-out-for-your-own-good/ | 20:01 |
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| RzR | and browser fingerprint ?:) | 20:01 |
| inte | but for dane, yes, thats what im talking about | 20:01 |
| inte | rzr browser fingerprinting is evil | 20:01 |
| inte | even though i use privoxy most of the time | 20:01 |
| inte | im not sure if that is enough | 20:02 |
| RzR | and it could be counter productive | 20:02 |
| inte | rzr what? privoxy? | 20:03 |
| RzR | anyway to not drift further | 20:03 |
| RzR | do you trust jolla or snapdragons ? | 20:03 |
| inte | i have no choice | 20:03 |
| inte | i could of course get a neo900 | 20:03 |
| inte | but i cant check the code myself as well | 20:03 |
| RzR | you could have a yoghurt glass and a wire | 20:04 |
| inte | so, yes | 20:04 |
| RzR | pot | 20:04 |
| pdanek1 | Jolla isn't doing anything special for privacy, excent they aren't opening doors to NSA. | 20:04 |
| pdanek1 | That's it. | 20:04 |
| RzR | how can this be proven ? | 20:04 |
| special | [yet?] :> | 20:04 |
| pdanek1 | snapdragon? like HW-backdoor? | 20:04 |
| inte | i just trust european companies more in general | 20:04 |
| RzR | i dont | 20:04 |
| pdanek1 | Depends on country. | 20:04 |
| inte | russia is currently setting up their own arm architecture | 20:04 |
| pdanek1 | Europe differs a lot. | 20:04 |
| RzR | yes | 20:05 |
| RzR | i am not saying all are evil | 20:05 |
| special | RzR: I think I'm the only person in the company subject to US national security letters. Assume whatever you will :p | 20:05 |
| RzR | but there is no reason to assume there are better ones than others | 20:05 |
| inte | i only wonder if the do that to implement their own backdoors or to make sure there are no us-backdoors :) | 20:05 |
| RzR | and even if jolla is doing lot of efforts to care about their customers privacy | 20:05 |
| pdanek1 | Like the question I got in Malaysia a while ago: What language is spoke in Europe? | 20:06 |
| pdanek1 | :D | 20:06 |
| pdanek1 | spoken* | 20:06 |
| RzR | there still could be the possibilty that their infrastructure is compromised by design | 20:06 |
| inte | :) | 20:06 |
| pdanek1 | Europe is such tiny continent that it's often considered as one entity, although it will never be.... even if United States of Europe will ever be reality. | 20:07 |
| inte | pdanek1: true | 20:07 |
| inte | i would still consider foss as more secure than blobs if its well monitored | 20:09 |
| inte | however, the openssl disaster has proven this is not always the case | 20:09 |
| inte | openssl seems bogus by design and should be replaced by libressl when its ready | 20:09 |
| inte | i somehow trust the openbsd people in terms of security | 20:10 |
| RzR | until next flaw | 20:10 |
| inte | RzR: has there ever been an openbsd/openssh security flaw | 20:11 |
| pdanek1 | OpenBSD is cool and all, yet Cisco does use QNX for their switches instead, yet it's proprietary. | 20:11 |
| inte | i mean, a serious one | 20:11 |
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| inte | some companies are using openbsd on their hardware | 20:11 |
| inte | and pf is really cool to administer | 20:12 |
| inte | i really disklike iptables | 20:12 |
| inte | dislike | 20:12 |
| pdanek1 | Once I was interviewed to FreeBSD admin in small company.... I have to say it was hardest interview in my life. 4 hours work in front of server fixing issues, like half-day shift. :D | 20:13 |
| pdanek1 | Although I didn't go for the job. | 20:13 |
| inte | :) | 20:13 |
| inte | dont know freebsd yet | 20:13 |
| pdanek1 | Me neither. | 20:13 |
| inte | but probably, as in openbsd, most is done manually | 20:14 |
| inte | i like it in openbsd, though | 20:14 |
| pdanek1 | I really like AIX system. | 20:14 |
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| * stephg shudders | 20:14 | |
| inte | like when you did a default, basic install you only have like 4 or 5 processes running | 20:14 |
| pdanek1 | Even though it's fully proprietary OS, it just works, way better than Linux servers. | 20:14 |
| inte | and you actually KNOW what each process does :) | 20:14 |
| inte | pdanek1: dont know AIX either :) | 20:15 |
| pdanek1 | inte: ahh, that's something you can't encounter in neither RHEL or AIX :D | 20:15 |
| inte | :) | 20:15 |
| pdanek1 | inte: But on the other hand, do you need to have such simplicity? | 20:16 |
| inte | pdanek1: sometimes simplicity equals security | 20:17 |
| inte | especially if you dont have a full time admin to take care | 20:17 |
| inte | or you want to run it on your homeserver | 20:17 |
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| pdanek1 | But as the business requirements grow, everything gets more complex and to maintain self-control over everything, you need significant staffing resources --> instead, you can put you trust to other company, like HP, IBM, Red Hat, Cisco... where you do not care what each process does, you trust the company. | 20:18 |
| pdanek1 | That's how market works. | 20:18 |
| inte | pdanek1: sure | 20:18 |
| pdanek1 | you trust --> tour trust | 20:18 |
| pdanek1 | your*, fuck | 20:18 |
| inte | but didnt iran also pay siemens to get software for their centrifuges | 20:19 |
| inte | (last word was a guess :)) | 20:19 |
| teve | big network vendor products just sucks if one is talking about security. | 20:19 |
| inte | the hardware that got destroyed by israel through infiltrating the siemens software | 20:20 |
| inte | its also possible to license e.g. suse or redhat (or sth. other foss) to get the same guarantees | 20:21 |
| pdanek1 | From my perspective, vast majority of security causes are from poor configuration and poor technical experience. | 20:21 |
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| pdanek1 | Regarding big network vendors, I agree, but it's about assurances from large corporations, service level agreements and stuff. | 20:22 |
| pdanek1 | To have absolute security -> go full FOSS and build it from scratch. | 20:23 |
| inte | pdanek1: but you could get those for FOSS as well | 20:23 |
| pdanek1 | But the bigger company you have, the less likely you can maintain above scenario. | 20:23 |
| inte | pdanek1: so how would building buggy openssl increase security? | 20:23 |
| inte | pdanek1: sorry for flooding, but I disagree with that as well - if your company has a reasonable size, you could easily set up your personal lfs-distro and share the binaries internally | 20:24 |
| inte | you compile it once, and then share it to every machine | 20:25 |
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| pdanek | inte: ah yes, you're right, that's what Google does, kind of LFS distro | 20:25 |
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| pdanek | hard to argue, I do not think FOSS is currently the best option on the market, but often it can be advantegous | 20:26 |
| inte | but only if the code is actually reviewed | 20:27 |
| pdanek | I think if you're an IT corporation like Google, you can afford to have your own LFS distro and security policies | 20:27 |
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| pdanek | But if you just need IT, like financial institutions, but it's not your core business, you rather go for large vendor as assurance. | 20:28 |
| inte | pdanek: it probably really depends also on the company | 20:28 |
| inte | some companies still swear on windows | 20:29 |
| inte | just because they always used it | 20:29 |
| inte | other are even switching to freebsd \ | 20:29 |
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| inte | because of ZFS and Solaris is dead | 20:29 |
| inte | depends on the use case and the mood of the decision makers | 20:30 |
| inte | its probably possible to infiltrate almost any software | 20:30 |
| inte | more important is to recoginze intrusions asap | 20:31 |
| pdanek | Windows is another story, but many companies have used HP-UX, AIX, Solaris, True64, mainframes or even Oracle database over open source database solutions. They're not necessarily bad software (although OracleDB is... DB2 hands down :D) but many people disregard them because of being proprietary. | 20:32 |
| pdanek | It's all about architecture design, developers, quality assurance etc. | 20:33 |
| teve | It's always slow despite of OS if there are big companies involved. | 20:34 |
| pdanek | Linux can't be used as an example of FOSS project anymore, it's run by corporations. | 20:34 |
| pdanek | By run I mean developed. | 20:35 |
| inte | isnt most of FOSS being developed by big companies? | 20:35 |
| inte | or some of their employees beeing allowed to develop foss like 1 day a week? | 20:36 |
| pdanek | Maybe not most. | 20:37 |
| pdanek | But it is indeed. | 20:37 |
| teve | let say: CGL linux vendor releases patch after it's own long QA perioid , then you may depend another vendor QA and after that one can apply patches to different product versions and do internal QA's for all of them. Then you need to inform customers and deliver sw updates. | 20:37 |
| pdanek | That is in case that the another vendor uses FOSS software from CGL Linux vendor. | 20:38 |
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| pdanek | Like if Linux fixes something in kernel, surely Oracle Linux will fix it later. Unless Oracle is the company that fixes it 1st and contributes. | 20:40 |
| pdanek | Many vendors take from FOSS but don't give back. | 20:40 |
| pdanek | Anyway. | 20:41 |
| pdanek | I've got to go for a movie. | 20:41 |
| pdanek | I should receive chat contributor award. | 20:41 |
| pdanek | :D | 20:42 |
| pdanek | Or chat troll?! | 20:42 |
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| inte | :) | 20:44 |
| inte | need to do a phone call | 20:45 |
| inte | enjoy your movie | 20:45 |
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| ruskie | love that I was able to move my fcron config over from the n900 almost 1:1 | 20:46 |
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| ruskie | just replaced run-standalone.sh with the dbus socket export(which I assume in systemd land path won't change between reboots) | 20:46 |
| FireFly | fcron? | 20:46 |
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| ruskie | so now have timed profile switching | 20:47 |
| FireFly | oh, a cron implementation.. makes sense | 20:47 |
| ruskie | one that sleeps until it has work to do | 20:47 |
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| ruskie | unlike most others that wake up every minute to see there is anything to do | 20:48 |
| FireFly | ah | 20:48 |
| FireFly | in other words, a lot more phone-friendly | 20:48 |
| ruskie | though that might more be distros stuffing stuff into /etc/cron. dirs | 20:48 |
| ruskie | yeah | 20:48 |
| ruskie | it also handles reboots and stuff | 20:48 |
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| ruskie | just glad that a one line modificaton to the profile script was really all that was needed | 20:49 |
| ruskie | the script I was using on the n900 to do it that is | 20:49 |
| ruskie | now time for sleep | 20:50 |
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| pdanek1 | I do think that some level of proprietary code is totally acceptable. not everything can run on Red Hat -like business model. | 21:08 |
| pdanek1 | = I approve proprietary nature of Jolla | 21:08 |
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| pdanek1 | RzR: http://youtu.be/SUJtMlEwd6Q?t=12m2s | 21:16 |
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| RzR | do you think this is too extremist ? | 21:23 |
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| pdanek | RzR: he has point, but he is idealist | 21:33 |
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| RzR | http://fr.proxfree.com/permalink.php?url=yx%2BhnYCyg4s24iThgBXg7eD%2BgixM%2BhdmOP7qE3TZgUNi8d7La8boG%2BQzqrYC81sENgHUzCWq7ekNPGOnmuLLK5VCb9GPT5ExD4dOkREpkMCmGRyjDyj7llAnn1nKHqv%2F&bit=1 | 21:34 |
| pdanek | So, kind of yes, I do think. | 21:34 |
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| pdanek | :D | 21:34 |
| pdanek | +1 for link | 21:34 |
| RzR | :) | 21:34 |
| RzR | the irony is watching this on google bandwidth | 21:36 |
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| RzR | using ... | 21:36 |
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| AL13N | link is gone now | 21:42 |
| pdanek | RzR: http://youtu.be/SUJtMlEwd6Q?t=16m18s --> "I think freedom is important than innovation" | 21:42 |
| pdanek | With such attitude, Jolla wouldn't exist. | 21:42 |
| RzR | depends | 21:42 |
| RzR | without this attitude we will all use and hail phone | 21:43 |
| RzR | or whatever | 21:43 |
| RzR | anyway freedom matters more than fancy toys | 21:43 |
| RzR | for me at least | 21:43 |
| RzR | and remember if we're able to talk about this | 21:44 |
| pdanek | People were stealing, steal and will steal. | 21:44 |
| RzR | it's becuase of freedom isnt it ? | 21:44 |
| pdanek | You're right. | 21:44 |
| AL13N | depends | 21:44 |
| pdanek | I just think that 100% FOSS isn't the holy grail. | 21:44 |
| AL13N | but i do want to get rid of facebook | 21:44 |
| RzR | start blacklisting it :) | 21:44 |
| pdanek | Proprietary is fine just as FOSS is fine. | 21:45 |
| AL13N | i first need to clean up my own page | 21:45 |
| pdanek | I have never used it. :) | 21:45 |
| AL13N | i had google+ thing too | 21:45 |
| AL13N | *hate | 21:45 |
| RzR | # grep facebook /etc/hosts | head -n 3 | 21:45 |
| RzR | 127.0.0.1 www.facebook.com | 21:45 |
| RzR | 127.0.0.1 facebook.com | 21:45 |
| RzR | 127.0.0.1 login.facebook.com | 21:45 |
| RzR | the problem i dont understand w/ g+ | 21:45 |
| AL13N | it's like, you could share picture using picasa before | 21:46 |
| RzR | is that lot of hackers are using it for self promotion | 21:46 |
| AL13N | and now you need a g+ account to fix it | 21:46 |
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| RzR | or other goals | 21:46 |
| pdanek | hackers? | 21:46 |
| RzR | yes floss users etc | 21:46 |
| RzR | developers too | 21:46 |
| RzR | those i carry | 21:46 |
| AL13N | i don't have g+ | 21:46 |
| AL13N | i'm a dev | 21:47 |
| RzR | linus has | 21:47 |
| AL13N | i don't want to be linus, nor do i want to see his face | 21:47 |
| RzR | :) | 21:47 |
| RzR | but he's not alone | 21:47 |
| AL13N | irc is much better for connecting with pple | 21:47 |
| RzR | definitly | 21:47 |
| pdanek | G+ was always a bit more tech savvy indeed. | 21:47 |
| RzR | see we didnt met on fb or g+ :P | 21:47 |
| AL13N | so what if he's not alone... i have no need to see any faces, false of otherwise | 21:47 |
| pdanek | But yea, direct communication like we have here, is more personal than social network wall | 21:48 |
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| RzR | anyway I dont see anything to object on RMS vid | 21:48 |
| AL13N | and it sucks that we had pictures on google picasa of our kids, where suddenly my grandparents are required to have g+ to access the pictures | 21:48 |
| RzR | maybe except when he said encrypt on your computer is safe(r?) ? | 21:48 |
| pdanek | RzR: That's why I'm here, I tried to see other people | 21:49 |
| RzR | AL13N, you did accept the TOS ... | 21:49 |
| AL13N | my wife did that, so i donno | 21:49 |
| pdanek | other people's opinion about the vid and RMS * | 21:49 |
| AL13N | i have no G+ so i can't see the pics :-) | 21:49 |
| RzR | you should have chosen a better wife then :) | 21:49 |
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| AL13N | RzR: and you're talking about idealism??? | 21:50 |
| pdanek | IRC > wife | 21:50 |
| RzR | :) | 21:50 |
| RzR | idealism is not a problem | 21:50 |
| RzR | anyway I generally dont like words finishing in -ism | 21:50 |
| AL13N | i consider it idealistic if you're choosing your wife on the bases of free software | 21:50 |
| RzR | lol | 21:51 |
| pdanek | :D | 21:51 |
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| AL13N | choosing a wife == choosing the lesser evil | 21:51 |
| AL13N | :-) | 21:51 |
| RzR | that's what she also said :) | 21:51 |
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| AL13N | she didn't say such things? why would you say that? | 21:51 |
| AL13N | you don't even know her | 21:52 |
| RzR | joking like if she picked you as the lesser evil too | 21:52 |
| AL13N | oic | 21:52 |
| AL13N | probably | 21:52 |
| AL13N | i should make my statement politically correct | 21:52 |
| AL13N | choosing a partner == choosing the lesser evil | 21:52 |
| AL13N | better? | 21:52 |
| RzR | =or just | 21:52 |
| RzR | choosing = comprimising | 21:52 |
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| RzR | well this conversation is going nowhere | 21:53 |
| AL13N | comprimising is choosing what you're ok with | 21:53 |
| AL13N | lol :-) | 21:53 |
| AL13N | yeah, let's go do sleep | 21:53 |
| RzR | :) | 21:53 |
| RzR | social inertia | 21:53 |
| RzR | interesting concept | 21:54 |
| AL13N | heh | 21:54 |
| pdanek | night! | 21:54 |
| RzR | AL13N, cant you retrieve your picassa picts ? | 21:56 |
| RzR | AL13N, thought it was possible | 21:56 |
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