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| faiden | Does jolla have any adblock software, then again I guess jolla apps dont carry comercial =D | 13:12 |
|---|---|---|
| Stskeeps | i thought some people used adblock as an extension to the browser | 13:13 |
| phdeswer | I vaguely remember an howto somewhere to do so | 13:13 |
| faiden | ahh good to know | 13:14 |
| coderus | hosts script for blocking ads working on any linux :) | 13:14 |
| faiden | I really enjoy that you can have openvpn on the phone =D | 13:14 |
| faiden | Am i stick with nemo as the user or can i change that thou? | 13:15 |
| faiden | stuck* | 13:15 |
| ponky | isn't there an openvpn app for almost any phone? | 13:15 |
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| faiden | Could be true, but I enjoy my cli | 13:16 |
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| coderus | faiden: you shoudnt change user on embedded systems :) | 13:17 |
| faiden | Yea i reckoned as much ;) | 13:17 |
| faiden | can't wait to ssh to my phone | 13:17 |
| coderus | :) | 13:18 |
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| Morpog_PC__ | using hosts file here to block ads | 13:20 |
| faiden | Have you subscribed to a list Morpog_PC__ ? | 13:20 |
| Morpog_PC__ | nah, copy+paste | 13:21 |
| faiden | ic | 13:21 |
| dr_gogeta86 | http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.txt | 13:22 |
| dr_gogeta86 | like this ? | 13:22 |
| phdeswer | Something like that works pretty well yes | 13:22 |
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| faiden | Time to find a updated site to get my list from! | 13:24 |
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| Sailor8545 | Are Jolla devs losing their enthusiasm? The hype faded and nobody out of Linux community have evvr heard of Jolla. | 14:50 |
| Stskeeps | do you have numbers to prove that? :P | 14:50 |
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| Sailor8545 | nope | 14:51 |
| SK_work | Sailor8545: truth is that you have hype during device release | 14:52 |
| SK_work | afterward, hype goes down | 14:52 |
| SK_work | doesn't mean Jolla community is not active | 14:53 |
| faenil | +1 | 14:53 |
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| Nav | The number of updates I keep getting to various installed apps would seem to indicate that the community is rather busy :-) | 14:54 |
| Nav | (Plenty of new apps to choose from too) | 14:55 |
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| sledges | spread the <3 http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R1RAUTGPTT14AP/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00HJA7A3Y | 15:21 |
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| Nicd- | quite similar to how I feel | 15:23 |
| sledges | another review similar too | 15:24 |
| ggabriel | the jolla is awesome | 15:24 |
| ggabriel | i got to use the multitasking view the other day "for the first time" | 15:25 |
| pp | 4G (week or few) and slightly more robust calendar and I'm happy | 15:25 |
| ggabriel | well, the cover actions acdtually | 15:25 |
| ggabriel | and i thought "oh, actually, this is very cool" | 15:25 |
| sledges | we all are here for that reason ;) when you feel jolla is ready to your friends - give them this link of independent reviews (ofcourse, for different people, jolla will be come ready at different times in future, but it will!) | 15:27 |
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| Morpog_PC__ | ah, I guess for non geeky friends sailfishos needs a few more updates sledges ;) | 15:28 |
| sledges | but that's why i pasted exactly this review from a non-geek | 15:29 |
| Morpog_PC__ | still, I can impress them often with stuff that only my Jolla does ;) | 15:29 |
| sledges | all of our geekiness levels differ ;) | 15:29 |
| sledges | yup, we need to gauge our friends well :)) | 15:29 |
| Acce | Jolla's new ad slogan "All of your geek are belong to us" | 15:30 |
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| Quu | i do like the phone very much currently | 15:34 |
| Quu | after the "paper fix" :) | 15:34 |
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| faenil | Morpog_PC__, "impress them with something that only my Jolla does" in my case usually results in showing red/green led blinking :D | 15:35 |
| faenil | "does your device do that?" :P | 15:36 |
| Stskeeps | faenil: i've heard rumours that apple has the same insane homescreen setup as we do.. | 15:36 |
| faenil | Stskeeps, then they must be hyper-cool to prevent all the crashes | 15:36 |
| Stskeeps | they don't | 15:36 |
| faenil | don't they? never heard of any crash :/ | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | iOS 7.1 also fixed the bug that caused crashes of the home screen, Apple said. That bug has plagued users since September, and in January the Cupertino, Calif. company promised a fix was coming. | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | this being in march | 15:37 |
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| faenil | "the" bug :D | 15:38 |
| Morpog_PC__ | faenil, erm, red or green blinking are somehow not that impressing :) | 15:38 |
| faenil | Morpog_PC__, aren't they? crap :( that's why they weren't impressed :( | 15:38 |
| faenil | :D | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | we should really have made it seem more like device panicing | 15:39 |
| Morpog_PC__ | haven't had green blinking for a month or so | 15:39 |
| faenil | Stskeeps, ahah | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | backlight flickering rapidily; LED going red blinking; and speech output "OH MY GOD OH MY GOD" | 15:39 |
| Morpog_PC__ | and red not for a long time, expecially since the paper trick | 15:39 |
| faenil | Stskeeps, that sounds creepy, I WANT IT! | 15:39 |
| Morpog_PC__ | Stskeeps, yep, that would have clearly impressed my friends :D | 15:39 |
| Quu | lol | 15:40 |
| faenil | Morpog_PC__, cool, I have it almost daily | 15:40 |
| Quu | thats awesome | 15:40 |
| faenil | I'm startin to hate it :P | 15:40 |
| Morpog_PC__ | oooh, sounds bad faenil | 15:40 |
| Morpog_PC__ | tried the paper trick? | 15:40 |
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| M4rtinK | would be easy to do with espeak :) | 15:41 |
| faenil | Morpog_PC__, I don't have reboot/shutdowns | 15:41 |
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| Morpog_PC__ | ah, so onloy green ones | 15:42 |
| Morpog_PC__ | only | 15:42 |
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| faenil | Morpog_PC__, red ones as well... | 15:44 |
| faenil | red blinking doesn't mean reboot | 15:44 |
| Morpog_PC__ | mmmh, never had red ones without rebooting | 15:44 |
| faenil | it's just the phone bleeding | 15:44 |
| faenil | Morpog_PC__, ah I see | 15:44 |
| Morpog_PC__ | or maybe i rebooted then :D | 15:44 |
| faenil | heheh | 15:44 |
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| parasemic | are any offline map apps working and if yes, what is prefered? | 16:16 |
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| SK_work | parasemic: there are a few android apps (IIRc) | 16:18 |
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| Turski | not probably jolla specific question, but how am i supposed to access my own store in aptoide from the application? | 16:19 |
| ggabriel | parasemic: i'm kinda testing modrana | 16:20 |
| Turski | i've loggen in but can't find the store | 16:20 |
| ggabriel | (modrana is in openrepos) | 16:20 |
| Nav | SK_work: osmand works quite well (but is a droid app) | 16:21 |
| * Nav hopes we'll get a native OSM editor eventually | 16:21 | |
| SK_work | Nav: /me hopes for a native OSM navigation app | 16:21 |
| Nav | That'd be nice too | 16:22 |
| SK_work | modrana is pretty close, but rendering maps on device is hard :( | 16:22 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, I'd like to support offline map rendering in modRana eventually | 16:23 |
| M4rtinK | but it is indeed hard | 16:23 |
| Nav | modrana is tile based though - so could potentially use massive amounts of storage | 16:23 |
| M4rtinK | not only the rendering itself | 16:23 |
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| M4rtinK | but preparing the data for the rendering and distributing them | 16:23 |
| M4rtinK | so not only the rendering code is needed, but also a tool for converting OSM data to a suitable format and a way of getting them to the device | 16:24 |
| M4rtinK | doable, but not easy :) | 16:25 |
| M4rtinK | Nav: well, it is usually not that bad :) and we finally have a filesystem with much better small file handling | 16:25 |
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| M4rtinK | Nav: so the many thousand map tiles should no longer have such a big overhead as on the FAT32 MyDocs partition on the N900 | 16:26 |
| jabis | have yo ulooked at leafletjs? | 16:28 |
| M4rtinK | isn't that just another Javascript map framework for web applications ? | 16:30 |
| M4rtinK | like Open Layers ? | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | KhertanAtwork: 10 bucks on dbus machine id? | 16:32 |
| parasemic | well i just need offline maps for a trip abroad, so what would you suggest? droid apps are fine | 16:33 |
| Nav | parasemic: osmand | 16:34 |
| parasemic | ok, ill try it | 16:34 |
| parasemic | thanks | 16:34 |
| Nav | the free version will probably be fine | 16:34 |
| Plnt | parasemic: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator | 16:35 |
| Plnt | parasemic: free with car navigation using openstreetmap | 16:36 |
| parasemic | im not sure i need navigation, i dont have a car to drive there ^^ but i'll try that just out of curiousity | 16:36 |
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| faenil | parasemic, sygic on android has free offline maps | 16:39 |
| faenil | should be more reliable :P | 16:39 |
| jabis | M4rtinK: phantom+leaflet to generate a cache, and Qt to tie it together - would be my approach | 16:39 |
| faenil | the free version doesn't have guided navigation, but it seems you don't need it | 16:39 |
| faenil | *voice* guide, I meant | 16:39 |
| faenil | I'm installing it now :) | 16:40 |
| parasemic | faenil, yeah im fine with just basic maps :) going to berlin for a little clubbing, so ill be using public transports mostly | 16:40 |
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| faenil | I heard germany is quite well covered by OSM, but I guess sygic is more reliable | 16:41 |
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| Nav | faenil: The german mappers do have a bit of a reputation :-) | 16:42 |
| faenil | :) | 16:42 |
| Nav | They seem to like days out at the zoo mapping animals | 16:43 |
| Nav | Because there's nothing else left to map :-) | 16:43 |
| faenil | lol | 16:43 |
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| faenil | I tried it in italy 2years ago, it didn't know any streetname | 16:44 |
| Nav | http://osm.org/go/0MZu2_4sR- - exhibit A, Berlin Zoo | 16:45 |
| faenil | ahahah holy crap | 16:45 |
| faenil | the situation in my town is quite bad :( | 16:46 |
| Nav | There's a solution to that ;-) | 16:47 |
| faenil | yeah...the time generator! o/ | 16:47 |
| Nav | Yeah, I need one of those too. | 16:47 |
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| Nav | A few years back I was walking 40 miles a week mapping for OSM | 16:48 |
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| Nav | I get a lot less editing done now | 16:48 |
| faenil | ahah | 16:48 |
| faenil | mm alright | 16:49 |
| faenil | dalvik crashed while downloading Sygic maps | 16:49 |
| faenil | why...why :( | 16:49 |
| Nav | I used to have problems with it hanging after installing apps from amazon. The most recent update appears to have fixed that though. | 16:50 |
| faenil | yeah in that case it wasn't freezing | 16:50 |
| M4rtinK | well, a German guy at SotMEU 2011 was already saying "there is nothing to map 100 km from my house!" :) | 16:50 |
| faenil | you just had to click the back button ;) | 16:50 |
| M4rtinK | Nav: regarding tile preloading - modRana already has support for batch tile download, it is just not yet exposed in the Qt 5 GUI | 16:51 |
| Nav | M4rtinK: When it got to the point I was spending more time travelling to a new area to map than I was mapping I knew I needed to find something different to do :-) | 16:51 |
| Nav | I ended up just adding more and more detail to my local area | 16:51 |
| Nav | M4rtinK: Batch tile downloads need to be done very carefully - it will get you blocked | 16:52 |
| M4rtinK | well, you can always help by tracing the satellite and Catastr data :) | 16:52 |
| Nav | Or even the app blocked if people abuse it | 16:52 |
| M4rtinK | Nav: yeah, depends on the tile provider | 16:52 |
| M4rtinK | Nav: best to setup your own tileserver for that | 16:52 |
| M4rtinK | isn't that hard anymore | 16:52 |
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| Nav | If anyone is working on any map/geo apps then I'll happily beta test :-) | 16:54 |
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| M4rtinK | Nav: modRana is already on OpenRepos | 16:56 |
| M4rtinK | and there are a few other navigation apps there | 16:56 |
| Quu | M4rtinK: btw, any news on modrana updates? :) | 16:56 |
| M4rtinK | And BasilSemuonov seems to be also working on something :) | 16:56 |
| M4rtinK | Quu: I was rather busy the last few weeks but I'm slowly getting back to modRana development :) | 16:57 |
| Quu | nice nice | 16:57 |
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| Nav | M4rtinK: already got modrana, poormaps, osmapper, maep, orienteering compass | 16:59 |
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| BasilSemuonov | M4rtinK, :) | 17:01 |
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| jabis | Nav likes his maps ^^ | 17:11 |
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| Nav | jabis: correct :-) | 17:12 |
| SK_work | M4rtinK: :):) | 17:13 |
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| pdanek | Jolla 2! The hype! | 18:04 |
| PeperJohnny | Link? | 18:04 |
| pdanek | I mean, I want to start the hype, nothing announced. :D | 18:04 |
| PeperJohnny | Ah ok :D | 18:05 |
| faenil | :D | 18:09 |
| keithzg_ | I hear it'll support AWS 3G! | 18:12 |
| * keithzg_ goes and cries in a corner | 18:12 | |
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| ln- | Jolla 2, 4K screen, 5.1 surround sound, Symbian with emulation for Sailfish! | 18:25 |
| Yaniel | symbian? please no | 18:26 |
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| coderus | symbian... say hello to descriptors and traps :D | 18:30 |
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| Yaniel | symbian itself is a trap | 18:32 |
| dunp | sailfish and any emulation.. | 18:32 |
| dunp | qemu realtime at realtime emulation | 18:33 |
| pdanek | or! | 18:33 |
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| pdanek | Sailfish can start emulating BB10 which will be further emulating Android! | 18:34 |
| dunp | just real linux support and gentoo like support for sources.. :) | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | windows xp on jolla mobile | 18:35 |
| dunp | only in emulation.. | 18:35 |
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| dunp | virtualmasine kvm support to phone pls :) | 18:36 |
| pdanek | OS/360 revival on Jolla 2! | 18:38 |
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| walokra | iOS 8 is switching to Sailfish OS. or at least the pics looks like that :) | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | well, that's a fan mockup | 18:53 |
| mikma | stskeeps: you currently live in poland? | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | yes\ | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | i think that's quite clear to everybody currently.. :P | 18:54 |
| mikma | stskeeps: ok, well you've surely have read the latest and greatest "open letter"? | 18:54 |
| walokra | it's interesting to see how iOS is going to reinvent itself. been stagnant and now bigger screen, active covers etc. like that wp8 and sailfishos has | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | mikma: yes, i have, but, for various good reasons i'm not going to be commenting on it, i've said what i had to say about this | 18:55 |
| mikma | stskeeps: please don't. i only wanted to be sure that you know about it. | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | i'm however up for making a youtube series to show everybody that i have about as much strength as a small ant through arm wrestling | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | <- harmless | 18:56 |
| * w00t has some funny mental images now | 18:56 | |
| mikma | stskeeps: so basicly you are not up for a regular finnish sauna evening, because you know, wrestling naked etc | 18:57 |
| w00t | they just got worse | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | i'm perfectly fine with sauna, but have not gotten into naked wrestling just yet | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | i watched this documentary about finnish startup culture called RIOT-ON recently though and i think it was mentioned | 18:57 |
| mikma | HAH! thats so legendary documentary | 18:57 |
| mikma | w00t: you need to add snow into those images | 18:59 |
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| kimmoli_sailing | sepelipaini !! | 19:02 |
| mikma | not bad | 19:03 |
| tbr | anybody interested in trying out samba (server) on their jolla? | 19:03 |
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| kimmoli_sailing | yes | 19:06 |
| kimmoli_sailing | tbr i can try | 19:06 |
| thedead1440 | Stskeeps: how come you keep watching that documentary recently always? you recommended it to me >a year ago and you are still watching it? :P | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | thedead1440: well | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | it's a kind of tradition we have | 19:06 |
| thedead1440 | to keep watching failures? | 19:06 |
| tbr | kimmoli_sailing: http://repo.merproject.org/obs/home:/tbr:/branches:/kde:/stable:/mw/sailfish_latest_armv7hl/ | 19:07 |
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| tbr | kimmoli_sailing: it's packages that were flying around on OBS already. But I'd expect it to "just work". | 19:08 |
| tbr | ofc you still need to define a shared | 19:08 |
| kimmoli_sailing | i will check in 5... i can " safely" add that as repo? | 19:09 |
| tbr | it's completely untested, but should be safe | 19:09 |
| tbr | you don't have to if you're concerned | 19:10 |
| kimmoli_sailing | i have backup phone | 19:10 |
| tbr | if this stuff basically works I can look into how this could be plugged into a USB profile for the jolla | 19:11 |
| tbr | as in, you plug in USB, it starts samba and gives you a network connection, just like for developer mode | 19:11 |
| tbr | that might apeal to some people who dislike MTP | 19:12 |
| tbr | ofc some will demand nfs-kernel-server instead... | 19:13 |
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| M4rtinK | tbr: that's basically what BB10 has | 19:16 |
| M4rtinK | tbr: and it indeed works nice | 19:17 |
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| kimmoli_blah | tbr: got bigger screen now, difficult to irc on jolla and hack at the same time :) | 19:20 |
| tbr | :) | 19:20 |
| tbr | M4rtinK: yes, and BB wasn't even the first | 19:21 |
| kimmoli_blah | tbr: ok, ssu'ed your repo, which pkg, samba-client ? | 19:21 |
| M4rtinK | I also have samba on my Android running TouchPad :) | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | i should really install kitkat on my touchpad.. | 19:22 |
| tbr | kimmoli_blah: there should be a samba server | 19:22 |
| kimmoli_blah | nope | 19:22 |
| pdanek | Why there are no paid apps in Jolla store? | 19:23 |
| tbr | simply named "samba" | 19:23 |
| kimmoli_blah | aa, ok | 19:23 |
| kimmoli_blah | tbr: http://pastebin.com/S83kTfUY | 19:23 |
| tbr | pdanek: because payment processing is hard? | 19:23 |
| pdanek | tbr: You mean there is no support for paid apps? | 19:23 |
| kimmoli_blah | tbr Fatal error: nothing provides logrotate >= 3.4 needed by samba-3.5.9-10.3.1.jolla.armv7hl | 19:23 |
| tbr | kimmoli_blah: duh, ok, so I only fixed build time deps :/ | 19:23 |
| tbr | kimmoli_blah: I'll try tomorrow with my jolla when it's fully charged again | 19:24 |
| tbr | there might be others too | 19:24 |
| kimmoli_blah | samba-client did look better though | 19:24 |
| kimmoli_blah | http://pastebin.com/SG7JkHP5 | 19:25 |
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| M4rtinK | what about NFS & iSCSI ? :) | 19:25 |
| tbr | M4rtinK: screw those, we'll go directly to RDMA | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | ATA over Ethernet. | 19:26 |
| M4rtinK | FCoE ? :) | 19:26 |
| tbr | kimmoli_blah: ok, might just be logrotate then, although it might also barf on missing syslog | 19:26 |
| tbr | FCoWiFi | 19:26 |
| pdanek | "Our current target is to provide you the monetizing possibility durign the 2nd half of 2014." | 19:27 |
| tbr | and to please the obscure brigade we might also stop by SNA | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | iSCSI .. wrapped in OpenVPN | 19:27 |
| pdanek | I see, although that's very late. That's not how ecosystem is built, is it? | 19:28 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: iscsi over TOR | 19:28 |
| M4rtinK | well, one can do some crazy stuff | 19:28 |
| kimmoli_blah | hoo Domain=[OLO] OS=[Windows 7 Home Premium 7601 Service Pack 1] Server=[Windows 7 Home Premium 6.1] | 19:29 |
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| M4rtinK | like creating a compressed zram block device in RAM, exporting it with iSCSI to another machine and there making a LUKS on it, on the luks making a LVM and there on a LV creating a btrfs filesystem :) | 19:30 |
| M4rtinK | all that is theoretically doable :) not a very good idea though | 19:30 |
| kimmoli_blah | tbr: smbmount missing there | 19:31 |
| tbr | kimmoli_blah: yeah, wasn't looking at client stuff, wanted to get the server running | 19:32 |
| kimmoli_blah | but the client seems to work ok.. | 19:33 |
| tbr | I'm rebuilding the samba package with logrotate dependency removed | 19:33 |
| tbr | for testing we don't have to care | 19:34 |
| kimmoli_blah | but... hmm... the smbmount could make my life easier @work with all those windows servers ... :) | 19:35 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: in gods name... why??? | 19:37 |
| M4rtinK | AL13N: why not ? :) | 19:37 |
| tbr | kimmoli_blah: we can make that work too | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | btw tbr, how did the usb hacking go? | 19:37 |
| kimmoli_blah | i586 completed. | 19:37 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: good news: the OTG state machine is in the kernel, bad news: the OTG state machine is in the kernel | 19:38 |
| kimmoli_blah | refreshing | 19:38 |
| M4rtinK | ona a more serious note, I would really like to see support for more advanced storage technologies on Sailfish | 19:38 |
| M4rtinK | at least XFS | 19:38 |
| AL13N | nah | 19:38 |
| M4rtinK | and LVM would be also nice | 19:38 |
| AL13N | who needs xfs and lvm if you have btrfs | 19:39 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: basically we spent combing through the code to figure out where to short circuit it and how, so it would end up in exactly one state that we want, instead one of the 10 other possible states | 19:39 |
| M4rtinK | well, after learning a bit more about storage recently | 19:39 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: i split up my sdcard with quota subvolumes using btrfs | 19:39 |
| kimmoli_blah | tbr: started to install packigees | 19:39 |
| M4rtinK | I kinda prefer LVM & XFS to btrfs :) | 19:39 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: can i ask why? | 19:40 |
| M4rtinK | seems more Unix like for one :) | 19:40 |
| AL13N | lvm is really unefficient | 19:40 |
| M4rtinK | & more tested | 19:40 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: the good part is that we can short circuit it in the kernel (most likely) as the kernel controls the transceiver. not like on the TI TWL parts where it had a brain of its own | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 19:40 |
| AL13N | and with btrfs, there is no need to have the extra layers for lvm | 19:40 |
| M4rtinK | well, you have those layers built in btrfs :) | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | i just want zfs on my phone/tablet and go home | 19:41 |
| AL13N | plus you have added features like raid1+bitrot protection | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:41 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: not quite | 19:41 |
| dunp | can i use two media to one volume with btrfs? | 19:41 |
| M4rtinK | LVM thin provisioning & XFS is pretty similar to btrfs in many regards | 19:41 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: you see multidevice btrfs with quota-subvolumes is actually what you wanted to do with lvm | 19:41 |
| M4rtinK | and unlike btrfs you can have swap on a LV :) | 19:41 |
| kimmoli_blah | tbr: installed... ah, need to make some snack first | 19:42 |
| tbr | :) | 19:42 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: well, tbf, btrfs has a feature in the works to export a block device (and allow swap) | 19:42 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, I've read the btrfs todo :) | 19:42 |
| dunp | and dm-crypt support.. | 19:42 |
| AL13N | yes, but also internal encryption support | 19:43 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, the feature set is sometimes pretty similar | 19:43 |
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| AL13N | M4rtinK: once you've done more with lvm (especially thin-provisioning and snapshots) you'll learn soon enough why btrfs is better :-) | 19:43 |
| M4rtinK | but I personally like LVM more than btrfs :) | 19:44 |
| AL13N | you'll get over it :-) | 19:44 |
| M4rtinK | it is no longer that crazy :) | 19:44 |
| saltsa | M4rtinK: what benefit does thin provisioning make? | 19:44 |
| M4rtinK | well, you can't name a snapshot LV "snapshot*" but well :) | 19:45 |
| M4rtinK | you can alocate arbitrarily sized partitions | 19:45 |
| M4rtinK | and space is allocated from a central pool when used | 19:45 |
| M4rtinK | and returned back once freed | 19:46 |
| M4rtinK | it is good for virtual machines | 19:46 |
| saltsa | except I think you'll have lots of problems when there is enough of data in the XFS | 19:46 |
| saltsa | plus you can't shrink xfs systems | 19:46 |
| AL13N | it's actually not good for fragmentation | 19:46 |
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| M4rtinK | or even for simple stuff like rootfs/home allocation | 19:46 |
| M4rtinK | just do thin LV for both and you don't need to resize one of them when it becomes full but the other doesn't | 19:47 |
| AL13N | this is where btrfs handles things better, you simply use quotas instead of provisioning | 19:47 |
| AL13N | and subvolumes instead of partitioning | 19:47 |
| M4rtinK | yep, you can't shrink XFS, but you don't have to if it is on a thin LV - all the free block are just not used | 19:48 |
| saltsa | M4rtinK: so does xfs issue some trim-like commands to free up then thin provisoned lv? | 19:48 |
| AL13N | but thin provisioning leads to fragmentation | 19:48 |
| M4rtinK | no idea about how it handles fragmentation, but haven't seen any negative reports about it so far | 19:48 |
| tbr | so, what's the colour of the bike shed going to be? vim or emacs? | 19:48 |
| AL13N | tbr: sssh | 19:48 |
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| M4rtinK | saltsa: yep, it works the same way as trim on SSDs IIRC | 19:49 |
| AL13N | rampant layering violations is the way forward: systemd, btrfs, ... :-) | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | layering is overrated | 19:49 |
| javispedro | omh, systemd criticism! | 19:50 |
| javispedro | mind if I join? :) | 19:50 |
| M4rtinK | well, I like systemd for one :) | 19:50 |
| * tbr likes layer cakes, preferably delicious and moist | 19:50 | |
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| AL13N | i like systemd too | 19:50 |
| M4rtinK | well, as long as it is working | 19:50 |
| M4rtinK | but it is most of the time | 19:50 |
| AL13N | tbr: i like my cake layered too, especially if there's chocolate mousse on it | 19:50 |
| M4rtinK | systemctl enable cake.service :) | 19:51 |
| AL13N | this reminds me, someone said to me that ubuntu was gonna go with systemd... which is just stupid, i cannot believe that... | 19:51 |
| w00t | systemctl restart cake-eating.service | 19:51 |
| tbr | CaekAsAService | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | sudo bring me a cake | 19:51 |
| AL13N | *CakeAsAService | 19:51 |
| tbr | AL13N: they did, because debian did | 19:51 |
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| M4rtinK | AL13N: BTW, how does btrfs handle SSD caching ? | 19:52 |
| AL13N | tbr: you're pulling my leg | 19:52 |
| tbr | nope, true story bro | 19:52 |
| Stskeeps | it all comes down to economics | 19:52 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: you mean like the zfs l2arc? | 19:52 |
| M4rtinK | AL13N: I know ZFS has that, and there is bcache for generic block devices | 19:52 |
| w00t | AL13N: i'm happy about it (leaving any bias aside, honestly, i'd have been just as happy if everyone adopted upstart for instance..) - everyone using the same lower plumbing means less headaches trying to get something working across distributions | 19:52 |
| AL13N | afaik nothing yet, just bcache | 19:52 |
| * tbr agress with w00t | 19:53 | |
| w00t | now if only mir wasn't still a thing... | 19:53 |
| M4rtinK | AL13N: not sure how it is called but have seen "SSD caching support" mentioned | 19:53 |
| * tbr has to maintain a multi-distro packaging on OBS | 19:53 | |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: though theoretically, when striping is mixed, one could actually have a partial mirror ondemand mirror of the most used files on the ssd | 19:53 |
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| AL13N | M4rtinK: ssd support is not ssd caching support :-) | 19:53 |
| w00t | tbr: i'd love to see packaging be the next thing to converge. but i guess that's going to take a slightly more major revolution :) | 19:53 |
| M4rtinK | AL13N: well, I think it had _caching_ :) | 19:54 |
| AL13N | w00t: third that | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | only time packaging will converge is after all the unbelievers have been slayed | 19:54 |
| javispedro | w00t: tbh I thought the entire init thing to be much more improbable | 19:54 |
| tbr | w00t: systemd becomes a package manager? | 19:54 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: if supports the use of bcache :-) | 19:54 |
| * w00t gets so sick of distro hopping and having to remember which tool to run 'install' on | 19:54 | |
| AL13N | GNU/Linux ==> SystemD/Linux :-) | 19:54 |
| javispedro | AL13N: ever heard of kerneld? | 19:54 |
| M4rtinK | AL13N: but striping really isn't the same - as long as it does not skip caching of sequential IO, it is sub optimal usually | 19:54 |
| AL13N | nope | 19:54 |
| M4rtinK | AL13N: well, yeah, that can be done | 19:55 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: well, we'll have to see, i suspect this is something that'll come with RAID5/6 enterprise ready stuff | 19:55 |
| M4rtinK | and LVM also got caching support recently :) | 19:55 |
| AL13N | still, even bcache is more efficient use of caching than ZFS does | 19:56 |
| AL13N | ZFS l2arc is mostly usefull with high concurrency | 19:56 |
| AL13N | btw: it seems ZFS is quite memory-hungry | 19:56 |
| dunp | i want linux fs to default :) to phone.. | 19:57 |
| ar | zfs wants 64bit address space and lots of ram | 19:57 |
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| ar | arm boxen tend to have none of these properties | 19:57 |
| AL13N | ar: i don't mind 64bit address space, i mean, even ARM wants that :-) | 19:57 |
| AL13N | i'm curious about AMD's ARM64 v8 chipset | 19:58 |
| javispedro | chipset! | 19:59 |
| M4rtinK | I really really hope that aarch64 finally fixes the current arm mess | 20:00 |
| ukas | ~/win 20 | 20:01 |
| AL13N | tbh, its not the ARMv* that's a mess, it's the chipset manufacturers making e mess out of it | 20:01 |
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| javispedro | you keep using the word "chipset", which is a little weird considering half of the "mobile revolution" of the last decade is thanks to having been able to use a single chip only. | 20:02 |
| M4rtinK | all those hacked custom kernel trees & blobs everywhere & no docs ... | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | what, xda-developers? | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:03 |
| javispedro | xda-developers is exactly the same place it was a decade ago, only they now illegaly share linux binaries instead of wince. | 20:04 |
| * javispedro has found the transfer of wince terminology (e.g. "ROM", "BSP") to Android very interesting. | 20:05 | |
| phlixi_ | hi | 20:07 |
| M4rtinK | well, I still know what XDA stands for (and I've even seen the original MDA) :) | 20:07 |
| kimmoli_blah | tbr passdb backend = tdbsam ?? | 20:07 |
| phlixi_ | i would like to copy some files from my n9 to my jolla | 20:07 |
| phlixi_ | ...whats the best approach for that? more or less directly, without having them to copy to pc (where rights etc get lost) | 20:08 |
| kimmoli_blah | scp ? | 20:08 |
| AL13N | rsync | 20:08 |
| AL13N | bluetooth | 20:08 |
| AL13N | wifi | 20:08 |
| AL13N | ... | 20:08 |
| AL13N | mobile data for all i care | 20:09 |
| javispedro | virtually only rsync or a tarball will maintain rights/permissions | 20:09 |
| phlixi_ | maybe i should point out that i do not want to copy them one by one, since those are a lot, and not via 3g... its ~20GiB | 20:09 |
| phlixi_ | i do not know if i have enough space for that -.- | 20:10 |
| javispedro | phlixi_: put them on the same wi-fi ap, rsync via ssh. | 20:10 |
| phlixi_ | they are... i will have to look up rsync... thanks for the tip | 20:10 |
| javispedro | scp -p preserves permissions too, I see. | 20:11 |
| kimmoli_blah | tbr, it works with smbpasswd | 20:12 |
| phlixi_ | ok, the jolla has rsync, the n9 doesnt :/ | 20:12 |
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| keithzg_ | Huh, the N9 didn't ship with rsync? Guess I installed it too long ago to remember, heh. | 20:16 |
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| kimmoli_blah | tbr http://pastebin.com/tpurttAE | 20:17 |
| kimmoli_blah | and yes i have finnish dos-prompt | 20:17 |
| keithzg_ | Literally used rsync from my N9 to my Jolla last night. | 20:17 |
| faenil | kimmoli_blah, so it works? :) | 20:17 |
| keithzg_ | phlixi_: Don't worry if you only have rsync on your Jolla, you can just push or pull from it as long as an openssh server is running on your N9. Rsync is nice like that. | 20:18 |
| javispedro | keithzg_: not sure | 20:18 |
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| keithzg_ | javispedro: Am I remembering wrong? I thought you really only needed rsync on both sides if you wanted rsync-style shares. | 20:19 |
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| javispedro | for that you need rsyncd | 20:19 |
| javispedro | but I suspect rsync -e ssh will spawn rsync on the remote | 20:20 |
| kimmoli_sailing_ | y, samba works both ways | 20:20 |
| javispedro | at least to calculate partial hashes et all | 20:20 |
| keithzg_ | Hrmmm. | 20:20 |
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| javispedro | samba is nice | 20:20 |
| javispedro | I used to have it on xinetd in n9... | 20:21 |
| saltsa | M4rtinK: how does xfs and thin-provisioned lvm behave when the disk runs out? | 20:21 |
| javispedro | should try to make systemd/inetd version on sailfish =) | 20:21 |
| AL13N | dude, rsync is THA BOMB | 20:21 |
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| AL13N | yes, sure, but why would you, if you got rsync -a ? | 20:21 |
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| kimmoli_sailing_ | hmm.. if smbmount something, i hope tracker does not go there | 20:23 |
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| mikma | kimmoli_sailing_: hohohoho, finnish dos | 20:24 |
| kimmoli_sailing_ | :) | 20:24 |
| mikma | they should have translated the commands to finnish versions also | 20:25 |
| faenil | anyone familiar with CMT on N9? | 20:25 |
| faenil | does WAKELINE TEST FAILED tell anything to you? | 20:25 |
| faenil | there's help needed for the n9 3.5 kernel update project | 20:25 |
| mikma | that would have been funny... "verkko käytä t: \\puhelin\nemo" | 20:25 |
| faenil | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/N9_Kernel_update_project#TO_DO_list_for_kernel_update | 20:25 |
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| phlixi_ | is it possible, that it is not possible to connect twice to the jolla (via ssh)? | 20:26 |
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| keithzg_ | phlixi_: You should be able to connect multiple times, I know of no reason why not and I've done so myself. | 20:27 |
| kimmoli_sailing_ | atleast i connect but from same host | 20:27 |
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| phlixi_ | thats strange, as long as i have putty open, i am not able to connect with filezilla and vice versa... | 20:28 |
| phlixi_ | once i close the connected one, after a short time the other is able to connect | 20:28 |
| keithzg_ | phlixi_: What OS are you running on your host computer? | 20:29 |
| kimmoli_sailing_ | works for me, filezilla works while puttying | 20:29 |
| phlixi_ | win7 | 20:29 |
| phlixi_ | a secont putty also does not work :( | 20:31 |
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| keithzg_ | Can you switch PuTTY to give you verbose output? | 20:31 |
| keithzg_ | equivalient to ssh -v? | 20:31 |
| javispedro | more phantom ssh sessions using pttys? :) | 20:31 |
| kimmoli_blah | samba about 2.8 Mbytes/sec | 20:35 |
| kimmoli_blah | from phone to pc | 20:35 |
| AL13N | not bad for being samba | 20:36 |
| javispedro | "for being samba"? | 20:39 |
| javispedro | it should be quite higher than e.g. ssh | 20:39 |
| javispedro | probably the only thing that'll beat it is a _properly_ configured NFS. | 20:39 |
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| AL13N | wut, samba is notorious for not getting the full available bandwith | 20:42 |
| AL13N | and ssh is only slower if cpu can't handle the crypto well | 20:42 |
| AL13N | rsync over ssh mostly gets pretty close | 20:43 |
| javispedro | try it. | 20:43 |
| AL13N | dude, i use it all the time | 20:44 |
| javispedro | s/try/benchmark/ | 20:44 |
| phlixi_ | does this look reasonable? Or are there nor asteriks needed because its for folders anyway? rsync -r user@192.168.1.25:/home/user/MyDocs/gPodder/* /media/sdcard/jcard/gpodder_files/* | 20:44 |
| phlixi_ | and where will i put my password? | 20:45 |
| javispedro | phlixi_: if you really want to keep permissions, you need something like -ra | 20:45 |
| AL13N | i often rsync over ssh on 100Mbit lines, NFS gets 11 easily, sometimes 12; rsync over ssh gets 10-11; samba gets 7 or 8 max | 20:45 |
| javispedro | I _specially_ doubt rsync uses your bandwidth fully | 20:46 |
| phlixi_ | i do not know if those are needed | 20:46 |
| phlixi_ | probably not | 20:46 |
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| AL13N | javispedro: why? | 20:46 |
| javispedro | AL13N: gazillion roundtrips when files exist in remote too | 20:46 |
| AL13N | we're talking tests with a single big file | 20:47 |
| AL13N | not talking about file access overhead | 20:47 |
| AL13N | this is about throughput | 20:47 |
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| AL13N | the rsync is over ssh getting slightly less is not a surprise | 20:48 |
| AL13N | and the samba not getting near, is also no surprise | 20:48 |
| AL13N | though i should admit that it's been a while since these tests with samba (definately not v4) | 20:48 |
| kimmoli_blah | filezilla over sftp gets 2.6 - 2.7 MB/s | 20:49 |
| faenil | AL13N, the one tested on Jolla is 3.5.9 | 20:50 |
| AL13N | oh, for the record, i'm not talking about jolla transfer rates | 20:50 |
| javispedro | AL13N: I've not tried sambav4 either | 20:50 |
| phlixi_ | :( user@192.168.1.25's password: \nsh: rsync: not found ...i thought this is not needed because of: The ':' usages connect via remote shell, while '::' & 'rsync://' usages connect to an rsync daemon, and require SRC or DEST to start with a module name. | 20:50 |
| AL13N | for jolla, the bottleneck is the local storage | 20:51 |
| phlixi_ | seems like i need to install rsync on the n9 (with a broken warehouse... ) | 20:51 |
| AL13N | yes, you need rsync on both machines | 20:51 |
| AL13N | scp has the same problem | 20:51 |
| phlixi_ | i have no clue how to get rsync on the n9, unfortunately warehouse seems to be broken | 20:52 |
| * AL13N doesn't know anything about n9 | 20:52 | |
| javispedro | phlixi_: then I suggest scp -p | 20:53 |
| phlixi_ | a, this is on both :-) | 20:53 |
| javispedro | or even just tarball the entire thing and send it via normal scp | 20:53 |
| phlixi_ | i doubt there is enough space to put a tarball besides it | 20:53 |
| phlixi_ | scp will have to do the job, i will study the options... | 20:54 |
| * javispedro ponders tar cz | ssh .... er... scp will do. | 20:54 | |
| faenil | javispedro, btw just fyi, if you want to stay on the safe side you need bsdtar, as tar won't compress the security caps | 20:55 |
| kimmoli_blah | putty's pscp got only 1.2 MB/s | 20:55 |
| kimmoli_blah | GN everyone... i hope TDC will get their cable fixed by morning duh http://tdc.fi/tekniset-tiedotteet | 20:59 |
| keithzg_ | phlixi_: You could still just get rsync from rZr's Harmattan repo, see http://www.who.is.free.fr/wiki/doku.php?id=harmattan | 20:59 |
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| faenil | kimmoli_blah, night | 20:59 |
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| * javispedro ponders a firefox extension that automatically sends the cookie that hides the "cookies warning" for some popular websites | 21:00 | |
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| phlixi_ | finally, something is copying... :-) | 21:16 |
| phlixi_ | (terrible slow though...) | 21:16 |
| phlixi_ | around 1.0MB/s | 21:17 |
| phlixi_ | well, hopefully will be done tomorrow, thenn i have to leave the wlan :) | 21:19 |
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| faiden | Seems like I will not get my phone from the posoffice, I need to wait at my door for a "couple of days" from 10-17 :( | 23:40 |
| stephg | faiden: :( | 23:40 |
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