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| faenil | interesting post http://thoughtsonjolla.wordpress.com/2014/05/21/how-does-the-jolla-community-work/ | 08:26 |
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| sharpneli | faenil: It is interesting. Especially from the point of view on how these things look like to someone with no experience in opensource projects. | 09:36 |
| faenil | yeah | 09:36 |
| sharpneli | On the other hand the writer is tad naive. As an example "I am also assuming they will need to work on this project 100% to keep the pace so they can't really work only evenings or aside of normal day to day work. What is the monetization model for developers in these open source communities? " | 09:36 |
| faenil | hehe | 09:37 |
| sharpneli | The answer is obviously to apply for a job at some company that has people working on the project. Jolla in this case. | 09:37 |
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| aupo | Or start one of your own :) | 09:45 |
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| entil | sharpneli: jolla allegedly works closely with and even inside projects they use, so maybe working at a qt-driven company could help jolla as well :P | 09:52 |
| sharpneli | That could work too. | 09:53 |
| entil | qt5 was an inside job! | 09:53 |
| entil | :D | 09:53 |
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| oh8gnz | Have to say that I was going to code something to my jolla in February but when I looked at qt I was nearly going to puke. Syntax was pretty awful. That was my first impression to qt. Hope that next time I try (maybe in few months) the impression will me less awful. | 09:55 |
| Nicd- | Qt or QML? | 09:56 |
| oh8gnz | qml I think ;) | 09:56 |
| Nicd- | as the C++ side is mostly just C++ | 09:56 |
| Nicd- | syntax wise | 09:56 |
| oh8gnz | same effect was with python few years ago | 09:56 |
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| entil | o_O when I wrote jolla-morse I was surprised how easy the c++ part was to deal with, almost pythonesque | 09:56 |
| Nicd- | to each his own, I like Python (except for the whitespace sensitivity) and QML is ok | 09:57 |
| entil | I never understood complaints about whitespace sensitivity | 09:57 |
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| entil | is implicitness hip now? disk space so valuable you can't store three extra spaces instead of the one tab char? editor's not configurable to do things consistently? | 09:58 |
| entil | or just generally the ability to make code harder to read, maintain, develop or refactor for someone else, as a kind of practical joke | 09:59 |
| Nicd- | I meant that there are no braces or similar constructs to help me separate blocks | 09:59 |
| oh8gnz | for some reason I like C/C++ syntax much more than python.. | 09:59 |
| entil | nicd: I'd call that lack of experience or something, whitespaces and alignment is there to tell you where the blocks are | 10:00 |
| Nicd- | once you diff some Python where the indentation levels were changed, it easily becomes really hard to tell which indentation level something was supposed to be on | 10:00 |
| entil | diff -w | 10:00 |
| Nicd- | as in 3 way merge | 10:00 |
| entil | I never had to merge three ways so I'm not sure, but it's insane to diff python without -w | 10:01 |
| Aard | Nicd-: my usual problem with python, if I have to touch it "oh, this line is wrongly indented. and this line a bit lower as well. ok, just mark the whole buffer, tab ... shit." | 10:01 |
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| entil | ... | 10:02 |
| Nicd- | entil: the problem wasn't whitespace changes, it was "we both changed this part in our commits, maybe rearranged the algorithms, now the indentation levels are different, what level was this supposed to be on? shit" | 10:03 |
| Nicd- | then you have to deduce it from the variables | 10:03 |
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| Nicd- | I mean the problem wasn't showing or not showing whitespace changes :P | 10:04 |
| entil | ok, sure.. I think that could appear with braced languages as well, not sure, but to me this sounds like an edge case | 10:04 |
| entil | and jihadism sucks anyway, wouldn't do braced languages without an editor that makes the braces trivial so that's not an argument even really | 10:04 |
| entil | it's just I get this knee-jerk wtf reaction when someone mentions not liking the whitespaces | 10:05 |
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| Nicd- | yeah, people have different opinions | 10:12 |
| Nicd- | and I am far from the only one who would like braces / other separators | 10:12 |
| entil | it's just that most arguments are complete non-arguments | 10:14 |
| entil | "n+1 people prefer x over y" is not an argument | 10:14 |
| entil | braces are seldom an argument for readability; just comparing javascript to coffeescript should make it clear that braces impair readability | 10:15 |
| entil | etcetc | 10:15 |
| Nicd- | but it makes you think if there's some truth to what they're saying | 10:15 |
| entil | nope, it's probably all bullshit | 10:15 |
| entil | :D | 10:15 |
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| entil | I do have one convenience argument that's pro-braces... it's really annoying in python to do test tweaks in code that require reindents (even though my editor makes it easier), whereas with braches you can do things like just adding if (...) {} and whatever you need and reindent the code after it works | 10:16 |
| Nicd- | I didn't say braces are the answer thoguh | 10:17 |
| entil | or disable blocks of code with false && {} | 10:17 |
| Nicd- | though* | 10:17 |
| entil | but that's just one way of developing that needs to be cleaned up afterwards either way, so I wouldn't call it a very strong argument | 10:17 |
| Nicd- | can't really say if coffeescript is more readable than javascript. it looks nice and hip but I haven't used it | 10:19 |
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| entil | give it a shot | 10:19 |
| sharpneli | I hate hate hate hate hate hate HATE javascript | 10:20 |
| sharpneli | And all of the variants. | 10:20 |
| entil | sure, but coffeescript makes it tolerable, though it could be better linguistically at least | 10:20 |
| sharpneli | Why? Because of the absolutely insane design decision to have just a number and then decide it's a frikkin float. | 10:20 |
| entil | a postal code 00100 is suddenly 64 | 10:21 |
| entil | coffeescript knows about some of this stuff fortunately, like all comparisons are === | 10:21 |
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| entil | no one asked but the one thing that annoys me about coffeescript is that it has all these aliases, like "isnt" for != that serves no real purpose and either one works fine | 10:23 |
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| Nicd- | I haven't had the opportunity to try coffeescript, and probably won't have for a while. I don't write JS for fun anyway :P | 10:23 |
| sharpneli | "all comparisons are ===" and that's my other pet peeve | 10:25 |
| entil | it's real easy to be arrogant about js but the fact of the matter is you can't stick to xhtml/1.1 and hate javascript anymore.. also despite all the bs it has some interesting patterns going for it, test frameworks and all that | 10:25 |
| entil | then implementing those in coffeescript makes it nice | 10:25 |
| sharpneli | Sure it has some good parts | 10:25 |
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| sharpneli | But the === is like php. "Hey let's fuck up == and then make === that actually works" | 10:25 |
| Nicd- | does anyone actually use xhtml anymore? instead of just going with html5 | 10:26 |
| entil | sharpneli: yeah, disgusting. but that's another point for coffeescript imo ;) | 10:26 |
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| rangoy | sharpneli: | 10:31 |
| rangoy | md5('QNKCDZO') == md5('240610708') | 10:31 |
| rangoy | in php.. amazing :) | 10:32 |
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| Nicd- | in PHP, this is true: "010" == "1E1" | 10:34 |
| Nicd- | that is the most PHP thing I know | 10:34 |
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| joonahoi | try === | 10:36 |
| joonahoi | ah nvm | 10:36 |
| joonahoi | already mentioned | 10:36 |
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| Nicd- | joonahoi: that's not the point :P | 10:37 |
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| rangoy | autocasting in php is in most cases convinient, but not needed. but in some cases dangerous. i bet there is applications which do my "trick" during logon | 10:47 |
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| TemeV | there is dynamic casts in every language, that's not the problem | 10:49 |
| TemeV | /s/every/most/ | 10:49 |
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| TemeV | php has just managed to mess that up bad | 10:50 |
| sharpneli | Yeah autocast is not inherently evil. | 10:50 |
| rangoy | excactly. my point was regarding php's way, not the concept | 10:51 |
| rangoy | imo, this works better in eg. js/ecma | 10:53 |
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| HtheB | Stskeeps: are you there? | 12:08 |
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| Stskeeps | HtheB: sure | 12:15 |
| HtheB | I wanted to ask you something about Jolla, can I pm you? | 12:15 |
| HtheB | (query) | 12:15 |
| Stskeeps | you can try but can't promise a official response | 12:15 |
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| Bysmyyr | why not ask here? | 12:19 |
| HtheB | Bysmyyr: personal questions :) | 12:19 |
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| * phdeswer wonders what can be so personal about Jolla that HtheB needs to ask it directly. | 12:32 | |
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| rangoy | phdeswer: can be many things i guess; job application, complaints about other persons in the community, poor code-self-confidence? | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | or just something private :) | 12:35 |
| phdeswer | Well not very important anyway. I hope he got the answers he wanted. | 12:36 |
| sharpneli | "Come here often?" | 12:36 |
| ShadowJK | or "I think you forgot your dildo at the party last night, want it back?" | 12:44 |
| phdeswer | ShadowJK: I did not know Jolla sold dildo's. Sounds like a good business plan for an "other half" | 12:45 |
| Yaniel | did I just lose the context completely? | 12:45 |
| HtheB | :) | 12:46 |
| kimmoli | lol | 12:46 |
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| Bysmyyr | phdeswer: you found your future business :P | 12:46 |
| kimmoli | but might want to have stronger motor there? | 12:47 |
| * kimmoli is always in when speaking about TOH's but i'll skip this one | 12:48 | |
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| phdeswer | kimmoli: wise choice ;) | 12:49 |
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| the_mgt | why does Jolla only sell the brown leather Lastu cases? | 12:51 |
| the_mgt | I'd want a black one, but the Lastu shop requires me to open a paypal account when paying via credit card. I hate paypal | 12:51 |
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| coderus | the_mgt: paypal doesnt require to open account | 13:27 |
| coderus | the_mgt: paypal is a safety service, you pay using credit card via paypal, but you not forced to create account in paypal ;) | 13:28 |
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| Nicd- | coderus: it does require for some countries | 13:29 |
| Nicd- | the list for which countries is not public | 13:29 |
| Nicd- | but finland is one of them (when using certain payment methods) | 13:29 |
| coderus | then blame your country laws, not paypal ;) | 13:30 |
| AJAX555 | umm.. is it bad then that you have to register to paypal? | 13:31 |
| Quu | seems like it is | 13:32 |
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| Quu | because people bitch about it daily | 13:32 |
| AJAX555 | I think it is awesome | 13:32 |
| Nicd- | coderus: it's not about laws, paypal will allow it if the merchant pays for it | 13:33 |
| faenil | for god's sake, just realized I'll be on a train tomorrow while the meeting is ongoing... | 13:34 |
| faenil | gah | 13:34 |
| faenil | I hope Jolla's wifi tethering will work well enough and there won't be too many signal drops | 13:34 |
| phdeswer | faenil: USB tethering works too and saves battery | 13:35 |
| faenil | phdeswer, makes sense | 13:35 |
| faenil | does it autowork in update5? | 13:35 |
| Nicd- | there's no UI for USB tethering... though I wonder if that tethering app in the store has that | 13:36 |
| phdeswer | usb-moded git has the config files. It works if you make sure the data connection is there | 13:37 |
| gexc | how about bluetooth-tethering? | 13:37 |
| phdeswer | Don't know if you can install usb-moded-connection-sharing-android-config in public releases | 13:37 |
| HtheB | does anyone know how (or where) I can create sailfish like background? I want to make a background for my notebook with that "triangle like" wallpaper that sailfish OS makes. | 13:39 |
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| Teme | i don't have the faintest idea what you mean HtheB :D | 13:42 |
| Teme | sailfish like? triangle like? | 13:42 |
| phdeswer | HtheB: I would say copy the one you like off your device and tell your desktop to tile it? | 13:43 |
| Teme | picture is more than a thousand words i guess :) | 13:43 |
| coderus | Teme: there is a pattern you can apply to your background manualy | 13:43 |
| HtheB | When creating an Ambiance, the background will be filled with 'triangles' | 13:43 |
| HtheB | so it will give you this "sailfish os effect" | 13:44 |
| Teme | ahaa, ok | 13:44 |
| Teme | never noticed that | 13:44 |
| HtheB | Teme: it's visible in apps | 13:44 |
| HtheB | blurred and "patterned" | 13:45 |
| faenil | isn't that just a gl shader? | 13:45 |
| Teme | yeah, i see it now - highly visible in pulley menu notifier :) | 13:45 |
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| HtheB | faenil: explain please? | 13:49 |
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| faenil | HtheB, http://qmlbook.org/ch09/index.html | 13:53 |
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| HtheB | couldn't find the right thing that I'm talking about, but what I was actually looking for: is there some easy way to create a wallpaper to get that blurred triangle pattern effect? :) | 13:56 |
| faenil | you mean you want it in homescreen as well? | 13:57 |
| HtheB | I just want to create a wallpaper for my notebook :) | 13:58 |
| faenil | ah okay, and you want the same glass effect | 13:58 |
| HtheB | input.jpg > process > output.jpg | 13:58 |
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| Sail0r | is syncevo-dbus-server the only service which needs to be started at jolla startup when I want syncevolution to automatically start at startup | 13:59 |
| faenil | HtheB, you want to have the same overlay on a picture, I guess you need the sourcecode to reproduce that | 14:01 |
| HtheB | faenil: yes :D | 14:01 |
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| SK_work | faenil: after playing too much PoE, you are in a train | 14:09 |
| SK_work | actually are you trying to avoid meetings ? :D | 14:10 |
| faenil | SK_work, no, I'm going back home tomorrow :/ but I won't skip it, I just hope there won't be too many tunnels | 14:10 |
| SK_work | :D | 14:11 |
| SK_work | np | 14:11 |
| faenil | I seem to remember that the meeting time was changed lately | 14:11 |
| faenil | but it seems I was wrong | 14:11 |
| SK_work | it was changed | 14:11 |
| faenil | still 10 UTC it seems | 14:12 |
| faenil | (only first meeting was at a different time iirc) | 14:12 |
| SK_work | ah, for time | 14:13 |
| SK_work | yep 10 UTC | 14:13 |
| SK_work | = lunch time for us | 14:13 |
| SK_work | 11/12 | 14:13 |
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| faenil | yep | 14:14 |
| faenil | train leaves at 11 | 14:14 |
| SK_work | :( | 14:15 |
| SK_work | hope that you will have enough internet connection | 14:15 |
| faenil | yeah... | 14:21 |
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| ballock | anybody managed to set up an ipv6 in ipv4 tunnel on Jolla? | 14:22 |
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| pahartik | ballock: I use "Jolla Mobile" for IPv6 routing | 14:58 |
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| ballock | pahartik: like, working in the company and it's routing your IPv6 traffic? | 15:15 |
| ballock | Not good enough. | 15:15 |
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| ballock | my mobile company does not support ipv6 yet, so was hoping somebody set up a readonable HE or Sixxs tunnel | 15:15 |
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| pahartik | ballock: Routing my own traffic over Bluetooth PAN from my mobile devices, SixXS "protocol 41" tunnel through mobile network | 15:20 |
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| ballock | so, what did you do? dyndns? post-up scripts? | 15:23 |
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| pahartik | ballock: Run "aiccu", "radvd" and "brctl" to set things up | 15:33 |
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| ballock | ok, will investigate aiccu | 15:34 |
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| ballock | did you do any connman integration? | 15:35 |
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| pahartik | ballock: Just learned enough of it to keep it out of way | 15:36 |
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| Stskeeps | good evening | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | are trains in finland usually equipped with a sauna compartment? | 17:19 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: asked on #devaamo ? | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | not yet | 17:20 |
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| Stskeeps | we just spent 1 1/2 hours in a train where it was 30+ C on the thermometer in the compartment | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:20 |
| faenil | lol | 17:21 |
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| faenil | ohhh that must be the national sauna experiment the finnish govt was talking about | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | mobile sauna. | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:22 |
| faenil | ubiquitous sauna | 17:23 |
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| raa70 | typical finish public transportation | 17:31 |
| raa70 | subsidied by govt, still costs more than driving your own car | 17:31 |
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| phdeswer | raa70: well to be honest they are trying to "fix" the price difference by making cars and driving more expensive by raising taxes | 17:42 |
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| entil | and then complain about free trade bringing cheaper alternatives to other commodities because people can't afford local commodities after the insane taxation on everything | 17:47 |
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| entil | and of course high unemployment because of partly the same reason as well as protectionist policies | 17:47 |
| phdeswer | entil: sounds correct indeed. | 17:47 |
| entil | at least the jolla phone is affordable :) | 17:47 |
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