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| jussi | morning ladles and gentlespoons | 06:34 |
|---|---|---|
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| tmynttin | Anyone noticed that mitakuuluu sometimes continuously uses ~100% cpu when checking with top? | 06:58 |
| Quu | yes. | 06:58 |
| tmynttin | Stops only when killing the program | 06:58 |
| tmynttin | k, is the root cause known? | 06:58 |
| Quu | probably. its the mitakuuluu. | 06:59 |
| Quu | no idea | 06:59 |
| tmynttin | ok, thx | 07:01 |
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| tmynttin | might have something to do with the battery consumption issues... | 07:03 |
| Quu | i think so too | 07:04 |
| Quu | sometimes i get -25% battery in hour | 07:04 |
| CoderCandy | uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh | 07:07 |
| * CoderCandy pokes Stskeeps | 07:07 | |
| CoderCandy | I hate hangovers | 07:07 |
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| ggabriel | so you poke people when you've been drinking? :) | 07:08 |
| CoderCandy | No, I told Stskeeps I'd poke him when I got home from a meeting | 07:09 |
| ggabriel | ah, ok, you keep your promises ;-) | 07:09 |
| CoderCandy | and well, I sortof had the meeting, then I got drunk | 07:09 |
| CoderCandy | and now I woke up | 07:09 |
| CoderCandy | protip, don't try a tequila suicide. | 07:12 |
| CoderCandy | It's bad | 07:12 |
| tmynttin | Quu, right after Ohijärvi update i had huge current consumption. Then restarted the phone without starting mitakuuluu, and consumption was back to normal. Today started mitakuuluu again, and after 2 h, battery is down to 80% | 07:13 |
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| tmynttin | might be coincident ofc... | 07:14 |
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| Pnuu | wlan and/or 3g in use? | 07:21 |
| Stskeeps | CoderCandy: headache-y | 07:21 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 07:21 |
| CoderCandy | yeah | 07:21 |
| CoderCandy | Very | 07:21 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 07:21 |
| Stskeeps | i need to get past my morning coffee | 07:22 |
| Stskeeps | trying to get my inbox to zero atm | 07:22 |
| jussi | CoderCandy: rmmod headache | 07:22 |
| jussi | Stskeeps: oooh, I can spam you a load so you dont have to do anything except email today if you like! ? :P | 07:22 |
| Stskeeps | also, what on earth is wrong with thunderbird | 07:22 |
| Stskeeps | it adds threading connections between unconnected mails.. | 07:23 |
| jussi | Stskeeps: its not just thunderbird... | 07:23 |
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| jussi | Kmail also does similar, if they have same names or other sameness | 07:23 |
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| tmynttin | Pnuu 3g | 07:24 |
| Kiranos | Stskeeps: use cone :) | 07:24 |
| jussi | Kiranos: he is trying to do email, not get high | 07:25 |
| jussi | :P | 07:25 |
| Kiranos | ha :) cone is acutally so much easier to setup then mutt or alpine | 07:26 |
| ruskie | alpine isn't hard as well | 07:29 |
| Gorith | today jolla's alarm clock went on and when I tried to put it off, whole phone died, nice feature at start, but it did not get back on form the power switch until I removed the battery for a while | 07:30 |
| Stskeeps | Gorith: if you pull battery for 10 minutes and reboot or shutdown issues continue after that, contact care | 07:31 |
| Gorith | ok | 07:33 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: I think I found a neat corner case with power management under high drain conditions. Trying to reproduce it though | 07:33 |
| joonahoi | Gorith: bad joke follows: if it keeps shutting down without battery, it's haunted for sure. send it up to jolla care for exorcism. | 07:34 |
| Gorith | ha | 07:34 |
| Stskeeps | depends if usb is connected or not.. :P | 07:34 |
| joonahoi | ah, true! | 07:34 |
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| Pnuu | tmynttin: no wlan at all after last reboot? | 07:36 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: in my case it seems that the phone thinks the battery is draining (percentage goes down to 0% quickly and warnings pop up) and then it shuts down. But when later attached to a charger it immediately showed 45% charge. | 07:37 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: yeah, something's awkward there | 07:37 |
| tbr | to me that smells like either the algorithm is too careful, or the measurement is not accurate | 07:37 |
| jussi | Stskeeps: congratulations on the advertisement... errr article :D http://www.tieto.com/top-stories/jolla-and-tieto | 07:38 |
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| Yaniel | eh | 07:38 |
| tbr | jussi: why yes, we paid someone to write that for us, but the statements are certainly real and honest from both sides. | 07:39 |
| Yaniel | great, tieto has been so famous for their success after all | 07:39 |
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| tmynttin | Pnuu: have had wlan on occasionally | 07:39 |
| tbr | Yaniel: it's a drop in the sea of our "public sector" success stories, isn't it? ;) | 07:39 |
| Pnuu | tmynttin: ok, thought so :-) | 07:39 |
| jussi | tbr: yeah, Im familiar how it works. And I was serious in the congratulations - its great when companies can work together like that - properly. | 07:40 |
| tmynttin | Pnuu: known issue? | 07:40 |
| Pnuu | tmynttin: it just seems that wlan triggers the power drain | 07:40 |
| tbr | jussi: I'm very happy that for once we can actually show that we have people who understand open source and help great things happen. There are many cases where we are not allowed to even say they exist. | 07:41 |
| Pnuu | if I put wlan on just for a moment and turn it off, the power consumption is much higher | 07:41 |
| Pnuu | if I don't touch wlan at all, it stays at the normal low level | 07:42 |
| jussi | tbr: yeah, its nice to be able to share. | 07:42 |
| tmynttin | Pnuu: ok, cool. have to try that :) | 07:42 |
| tmynttin | to verify, i mean | 07:44 |
| Gorith | Pnuu: you mean actual wlan or wifi hotspot? I did have these kinds of issues with the hotspot app from store (haven't tried with Jolla's version, maybe the same thing) | 07:46 |
| Pnuu | Gorith: seems to be both | 07:48 |
| Gorith | ok | 07:48 |
| Pnuu | I've certainly had it with built-in hotspot | 07:48 |
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| Pnuu | hmm | 07:50 |
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| Pnuu | Gorith: good point, it might not have triggered from only wlan | 07:50 |
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| Pnuu | I'll test, 84 % now, let's see what's the level after an hour | 07:51 |
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| tmynttin | 70% here, plugged from charger 3h ago :p | 07:52 |
| Pnuu | I unplugged charger yesterday morning :-) | 07:54 |
| tmynttin | nice :) | 07:54 |
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| Bysmyyr | now it says that account needs to be updated but chat works anyway ? | 08:16 |
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| Quu | that happens every 10 minutes | 08:17 |
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| Bysmyyr | ok, nice to know because I updated it several times past some days. This come after btrfs full disk problem | 08:18 |
| Quu | nah, that have happened to me since i got the phone | 08:19 |
| Quu | less since last update tho | 08:19 |
| Quu | or atleast it doesnt notify about it anymore | 08:19 |
| Bysmyyr | before it really disconnects it, but not too often | 08:19 |
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| chriadam | Bysmyyr: is that a google account, or fb account, or both? | 08:33 |
| chriadam | it's a known bug, but we thought that with the most recent update, it should be uncommon... definitely not every 10 minutes... | 08:33 |
| Bysmyyr | chriadam: google | 08:35 |
| chriadam | ok, thanks. | 08:36 |
| Bysmyyr | now it do it atleast once per day... and that started after I had that btrfs problem | 08:36 |
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| chriadam | hrm, btrfs shouldn't affect this one. this one is due to some non-fault-tolerant code we have in telepathy, I believe. | 08:36 |
| Bysmyyr | but btrfs effected some file when bugging... maybe | 08:37 |
| Bysmyyr | my programs crashed several times | 08:37 |
| chriadam | well, it's possible I guess - fs issues can have any number of side-effects, really. | 08:37 |
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| ottulo | good news: after rebooting yesterday, I'm now down to 86% in the same time it took previously to reach 22% | 08:58 |
| ottulo | bad news: phone just switched off after flashing green at me for a minute or two | 08:58 |
| Quu | iirc green flashes means UI crashed | 08:58 |
| Yaniel | switched of or just a ui crash? | 08:58 |
| Yaniel | hmm afaik green means that it is restarting the ui though | 08:59 |
| ottulo | Yaniel: switched off, I had to boot it after the green flashing stopped | 08:59 |
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| phaeron | green flashing -> ui unresponsive -> after some time reboot or shutdown | 09:03 |
| phaeron | afaik | 09:03 |
| Yaniel | I have had red flashing -> screen goes blank -> green flashing -> screen comes back up | 09:03 |
| ottulo | phaeron: exactly what happened to me | 09:04 |
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| ottulo | I've had both red and green flashing before, but never shutdown | 09:04 |
| phaeron | Yaniel: red flashing == crash | 09:04 |
| phaeron | ottulo: watchdog waits for some time maybe it will respond. what was running ? I've had similar issue with heavy android apps for example. | 09:05 |
| phaeron | like certain games | 09:05 |
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| ottulo | phaeron: phone was idle, running network monitor, mail, hunger meter and mitakuuluu | 09:06 |
| ottulo | I received a message on mitakuuluu, double-tapped -> flashing | 09:06 |
| ottulo | so screen was not on at any point | 09:06 |
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| sunkan | I have never gotten an Android app to update from Yandex. Is this the case for everyone? Right now I have a FF that needs to be updated, I have worked around it by re-installing the apps so far.. | 09:13 |
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| ottulo | sunkan: I think it used to work at first, but for quite a while now it hasn't | 09:14 |
| ottulo | it seems to download the apk but not install | 09:14 |
| sunkan | ottulo: Yes that is what happens for me.. | 09:14 |
| sunkan | ottulo: I think that uninstalling/installing removes settings for the app right? | 09:15 |
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| ottulo | sunkan: I would imagine it does, but I'm not sure | 09:18 |
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| sunkan | ottulo: I think it is inherent with the sandboxing done with android apps.. | 09:19 |
| sunkan | ottulo: So the question is whether there are any workarounds. I have noticed that it does not work to update manually installed apps with apkd-install either. | 09:19 |
| ottulo | sunkan: I've installed apks manually to update apps | 09:20 |
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| ottulo | from File Manager, though, but I think it simply runs apkd-install | 09:20 |
| sunkan | ottulo: Ok, I can try again to see if it works. | 09:21 |
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| phaeron | ottulo: seems this hunger meter app can run down your battery , maybe related ? | 09:26 |
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| ottulo | phaeron: related to ui crash or battery drain? | 09:27 |
| phaeron | ottulo: both :) | 09:27 |
| ottulo | :D | 09:27 |
| ottulo | I don't think it did that much for battery drain, as I've been running the exact same apps all the time, but before rebooting the battery was draining much faster | 09:28 |
| phaeron | ottulo: did you use internet sharing ? | 09:28 |
| ottulo | phaeron: I did a couple days ago, then I turned wlan off | 09:30 |
| ottulo | battery was draining fast after that until reboot, no wlan since | 09:31 |
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| phaeron | ottulo: yeah I think I saw a couple of people saying the same. internet sharing -> battery drain until reboot | 09:31 |
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| Pnuu | yep | 09:31 |
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| ottulo | part of the reason I tried rebooting | 09:32 |
| Pnuu | wlan by itself didn't trigger, lost 1 % in ~2 hours | 09:32 |
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| sunkan | After updating FF with the downloaded .apk it no longer starts correctly, is there a need to rebuild a cache or something like that after updating android apps? | 09:36 |
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| sunkan | It worked after removing the .dex file in /data/dalvik-cache and then restarting aliendalvik.service | 09:45 |
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| Nightmare__ | http://www.shortnews.de/id/1082417/porno-darstellerin-fliegt-aus-der-npd-weil-sie-sex-mit-einem-schwarzen-mann-hatte <- lol, ich verreck | 09:55 |
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| Quu | somehow i feel like not opening that. | 09:56 |
| Nightmare__ | überschrift im link reicht :D | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | english please | 09:56 |
| Nightmare__ | oh sorry, wrong channel :D | 09:57 |
| tbr | Nightmare__: ECHAN? ;) | 09:57 |
| Nightmare__ | just str+v and enter is not a good idea :) | 09:58 |
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| CoderCandy | Moorning | 10:12 |
| CoderCandy | I slept trough my hangover | 10:12 |
| pawky | All you Jolla employees in here, could you explain to me one thing? i believe most of you have previously owned a nokia N900 or a N9/N950. This means you already know what features this OS contained. Could you then explain to me why, when implementing Sailfish, You think its a good idea to release it with features far more limited than even this old os? | 10:13 |
| Stskeeps | pawky: it's very simple really, harmattan's requirements list was bigger than the bible | 10:14 |
| pawky | take picture cropping for example. In the good old N9 you had different predefined cropping solutions, but also one of the only really usefull one, freehand cropt. in sailfish, after quite some time we finally have cropping... and do we have freehand, noooooo | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | also, none of that several years of effort was published in open source | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | we were able to leverage a lot of quality middleware, that's it | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | at some point, you just have to release. | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | because if you try to play catch up with a goal and features, you forget your getting your basics good | 10:15 |
| jussi | release early, release often :D | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | we deliver features and bugfixes monthly in practice at the moment | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | compared to every what, 3-4 months | 10:16 |
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| ln- | pawky: i'm not an employee or anything, but i've heard that there were about ~2000 people working on harmattan. compare that to how many employees jolla has. | 10:16 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: That might be, but I believe most people working on the previous OS must have understood why these features where implemented in the first place. Thus, it might be a great idea, to at least implement the same functionality when putting in similar features, not more limited... | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | pawky: we don't have 6-8 years of development or 2000 people to do that, it's not a linear continuation of harmattan | 10:16 |
| pawky | I do of course understand you cannot put in ALL the features at once, but at least, when implementing a few of them, don't make them less usable than on the earlier phone... | 10:17 |
| pawky | How come someone thought it was a great idea to implement picture cropping, but then just skipp, the one and only feature that made any sense, freehand cropping? | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | we do what we can, but when you have problems with basic features, why should you work on advanced features? | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | get things right first | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | else it's going to stay around forever | 10:18 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: I very much agree you are all doing a great job, heads down.. | 10:18 |
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| Stskeeps | it doesn't help that you can use webgl but your phone calls aren't working | 10:18 |
| pawky | but.... when implementing features, at least don't make them less functional than the old N9... | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | you seem to be of an understanding that we have all the people who made the n9 and the n9's source code.. | 10:19 |
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| Stskeeps | it's a new phone, new set of features | 10:19 |
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| Stskeeps | some features are not there yet | 10:20 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: I believe now, that someone has implemented the crop function, it will take eons, before someone put in a freehand option... | 10:20 |
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| pawky | Stskeeps: Not having all features is ok, but when implementing them, at least don't make them less than older phones.. | 10:20 |
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| fk_lx | pawky: if gallery was open sourced then community could try to implement freehand cropping | 10:21 |
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| pawky | fk_lx: true, but why didn't the person who vrote the current code implement it??? | 10:21 |
| pawky | what on earth was he thinking, why did he take such a short cut? | 10:22 |
| fk_lx | pawky: he didn't have time? | 10:22 |
| Acce | one could probably already implement it in QML, but distribution might be a problem | 10:22 |
| pawky | fk_lx: then he should have waited... | 10:22 |
| Stskeeps | so, not release any cropping..? | 10:22 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: well... yeah why release something not finished? | 10:22 |
| Pnuu | ... | 10:22 |
| TheBootroo_work | pawky: why in the hell and heaven are you whinning so much ? just learn Qt and QML and DIY | 10:23 |
| TheBootroo_work | having beta / incomplete stuff is lot better than having NOTHING | 10:23 |
| fk_lx | pawky: because some functionality is better than none functionality - simple as that | 10:23 |
| pawky | TheBootroo_work: Could it be, i am not working at Jolla?... | 10:23 |
| TheBootroo_work | fk_lx: exactly | 10:23 |
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| TheBootroo_work | pawky: develop a simple image editor for jolla using Silica, and put it on store | 10:23 |
| pawky | TheBootroo_work: No, i do not believe it is... at least not when, as far as i know, Sailfish is taken out of its beta status... | 10:24 |
| TheBootroo_work | or submit it to someone @jolla for merge | 10:24 |
| TheBootroo_work | or contribute to nemo | 10:24 |
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| TheBootroo_work | pawky: out of beta != done | 10:24 |
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| Stskeeps | fk_lx does have a point though, yes, community could add the functionality if the code was there and open source, but there's more to that, you need designers to agree on the factual UI/UX to be implemented | 10:24 |
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| TheBootroo_work | android and iOS are older than Sailfish and still don't do some things that N900 or N9 could do | 10:24 |
| pawky | TheBootroo_work: Well, when bying a phone, i do also expect some features to implemented by the manufacturer.. | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | or alternatively, being able to simply replace an image editor or supplement it through plugins | 10:25 |
| TheBootroo_work | pawky: when you buy a first phone from a startup you must be aware of what you're buying | 10:25 |
| pawky | TheBootroo_work: Such simple feature as freehand cropping, that already existed in the old N9, (and could probably easiely be ripped), is one of them.. | 10:25 |
| fk_lx | Stskeeps: designers can always cooperate with community and suggest things, like someone said DIT, wasn't that Jolla? ;-) | 10:25 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: I don't see community contributions to browser yet though :( | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | pawky: have you made a together.* item about freehand cropping? | 10:25 |
| TheBootroo_work | Stskeeps: doing a complete image editor as an app for the store is possible anyway | 10:26 |
| pawky | TheBootroo_work: I am aware of what I have bought. I do accept features to not be implemented, but when they are, do it propperly | 10:26 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: i will... | 10:26 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: maybe community expects more openness before enganing into sth | 10:26 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: But why didn't the person implementing this feature think twice before releasing it?... | 10:26 |
| Pnuu | yawn | 10:26 |
| TheBootroo_work | phaeron: that's because webbrowser is a hard thing | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | pawky: we made a new graphics stack on new hardware in 6 months.. it's all about time | 10:27 |
| TheBootroo_work | and maybe it's already very good, and remaining issues are more on engine side | 10:27 |
| pawky | Having a Jolla also makes one the advocate/salesman for the product, and in the end its embarrassing when new features are implemented, only to be very limited, nearly to the stage of useless.. | 10:27 |
| phaeron | pawky: that's a matter of perspective. I think cropping on a mobile device is useless | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | phaeron: there's some initial movement in the issues tracker, but no pull requests yet | 10:28 |
| pawky | i do believe highly in the product, and in the software. | 10:28 |
| TheBootroo_work | phaeron: +1 | 10:28 |
| phaeron | I'd rather copy the photo to my laptop where I have proper image editing software | 10:28 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: yes I looked first before commenting :) | 10:28 |
| pawky | phaeron: until you realise you can use your phone to store documents, etc... then cropping is a very nice feature.. | 10:29 |
| TheBootroo_work | Stskeeps: the apps that need the most love are Media player and gallery because some UI bits are not really ergonomical | 10:29 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: and what if you don't have laptop around and are on vacation? ;-) | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | pawky: there's a story behind the good image editor in n9 though | 10:29 |
| TheBootroo_work | when they will be open sourced i'll try too help | 10:29 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: tell me? :-) | 10:29 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: why do you need to crop it then ? | 10:29 |
| pawky | Isn' most of the code for Jolla open source? | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | pawky: there was a large effort by nokia/maemo for several years to do on-device image editing | 10:30 |
| netzvieh | TheBootroo_work: well I think the mail client need more love than those too :D | 10:30 |
| TheBootroo_work | netzvieh: yes that too | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | pawky: https://maemo.gitorious.org/meego-image-editor , also effort from fremantle times | 10:30 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: to crop out sth awful from it? | 10:30 |
| netzvieh | I actually like the media player the way it is ;) | 10:30 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: I believe freehand cropping nailed it pretty much :-) | 10:30 |
| TheBootroo_work | on this topic : why not reuse the IMAP implementation from trojita ? it's really good implementation, plain Qt, and supports IMAP Idle | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | pawky: now, we actually use parts of those libraries | 10:31 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: and thats what I thought... :-) | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | pawky: but it might be that the UI isn't wired up for some of those operations, due to lack of time or design input, or prioritsation | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | because there's many other things in the device that needs love | 10:31 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: true.. but do you not agree, when implementing a feature. Do it fully? | 10:31 |
| Pnuu | depends | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | pawky: i don't agree, features can be broken down in multiple features | 10:32 |
| pawky | Stskeeps: cropping, needs a freehand option if its going to be usefull... and the N9 nailed it | 10:32 |
| TheBootroo_work | pawky: i prefer having some begining of feature, it show there is progress and something planned | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | and sometimes full functionality comes later | 10:32 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: and speaking of opensourcing browser, it's not enough to drop code to start open source collaboration, if that would be the thing, then everyone would be now contributing to Tizen | 10:33 |
| pawky | TheBootroo_work: well.. but after such beginning features are released, they tend to get forgotten priority wise, to maybe never be implemented... | 10:33 |
| TheBootroo_work | pawky: are you a dev ? | 10:33 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: the development is being done in the open | 10:33 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: you can see developer discussions everywhere | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | i think i understand what fk_lx's getting at though | 10:34 |
| TheBootroo_work | if so, you must know that a dev team has always LOT to do, and unless you are a big company with private product planned for release in 3 years, you have to release small increments, with partial implementation | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | that the how/where/who/etc isn't very easy for people to find | 10:34 |
| pawky | TheBootroo_work: i wish i was... | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | open development is always a start but there's more to it than that | 10:34 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: sorry, but maybe after my bad experiences with Nemo middleware, I don't have will to look how it is different with the browser | 10:35 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: what experience out of interest ? | 10:35 |
| TheBootroo_work | pawky: well, i am, and i can tell you how it's hard to acheive the features you want, when you have lots of bugfixes to do before a planned release | 10:35 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: read my answer to co-creations post on Together | 10:35 |
| Stskeeps | that in practice there's not proper open development ongoing with nemo middleware, but yeah, the co-creations post is a good start | 10:35 |
| TheBootroo_work | so you do what you have time to do, you do it stable, and keep the remaining todo for some next release | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | i have an action point to try and help this, personally | 10:36 |
| pawky | TheBootroo_work: Well... what I meant is, I do know how to code, i do not work as a dev... | 10:36 |
| TheBootroo_work | pawky: well, my point stays valuable | 10:36 |
| pawky | TheBootroo_work: if any implementation of cropping was to be done priority wise it should have been the freehand one, not the 4:3 3:4 etc... | 10:36 |
| fk_lx | phareon: another example (not covered in my answer in topic on TJC) are those commits "Contributes to #JB......" - so roadmaps or things to do are there, but not in public | 10:37 |
| pawky | TheBootroo_work: Well, i know there are lots of issues, but if implementing something, please don't make the feature less than previous versions (if one might call the N9/N900 previous ones)... | 10:38 |
| Eztran | Something > nothing, providing it doesn't break anything else. | 10:38 |
| TheBootroo_work | pawky: N900 and N9 are ancestors of Jolla in philosophy, but pretty nothing could be reused since maemo code is still Nokia's property | 10:39 |
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| TheBootroo_work | so jolla has to redo almost everything, so its takes longer, even for 'simple' features | 10:39 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: if you don't know what is really needed or planed it's hard to engage into sth, and it's a rule not only in open source world, that is connected with any initiatives | 10:40 |
| TheBootroo_work | and we have to respect all they were able to do in such a few time with a lot less power than what nokia use to have | 10:40 |
| TheBootroo_work | it's actually already a LOT of work | 10:40 |
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| fk_lx | phaeron: and how many times someones comes with help (for example people bought pharmaceutics and sent to Ukraine recently) and then they hear, that it was not needed, because it was already done or enough | 10:41 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: the JB# is just for our internal automation. by choice we can either leave it out or add it. If you want information you can ask for it and people will be happy to provide it. The real reason features are not tracker in the open is it is _very_ difficult to keep track of two bugzillas and synchronize it | 10:41 |
| TheBootroo_work | fk_lx: phaeron: one browser feature that could be cool is ability to create launcher shortcut for web apps, just like N9 had, but maybe not before Jolla adds folders support to launcher | 10:41 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: together.j.c was an attempt to get the community to help a bit with that and it is already straining our ability to track things | 10:42 |
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| TheBootroo_work | for my part, i have some skills in QML tricking (working around current limitations of the engine) and i would like to know what blockers Jolla team found when implementing Silica / sailfish UI that still needs to be fixed, or simply would need better/cleaner/more elegant solution | 10:43 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: together.j.c is a place for feedback from users, some open source people are more used to bugtrackers and I haven't heard a reason why some of the bugs of existing bugzilla couldn't be shared to involve more people | 10:43 |
| TheBootroo_work | because THIS is where is can really help | 10:43 |
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| phaeron | fk_lx: we have internal bugzilla to plan and track work + the roadmap bits , duplicating the information to an open bugzilla is difficult , time consuming and also needs some careful filtering for obvious reasons | 10:43 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: if you have concrete suggestions about how to ease that process I am happy to listen. One example is browser is trying to use github issue tracker | 10:44 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: why duplicate, cannot you set different levels and make some bugs public (connected with the open parts like middleware) while keeping others private, all in _one_ bugzilla, making second one is useless as you won't have time to mantain it | 10:45 |
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| phaeron | fk_lx: it's easy to say that. but scary when you think about the scale and complexity. | 10:45 |
| TheBootroo_work | Aard: hi ! | 10:46 |
| kontio | since there a ppl involved to make a mistake and leak something by accident is a very high risk with that... | 10:46 |
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| fk_lx | phaeron: that's why I think Jolla should have someone who would dedicate all his time work to the open source collaboration part and cooridnate efforts | 10:46 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: for now open source is the topic some of the employees do as an add-on to their primary work | 10:47 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: then the fact that development happens at break neck speeds doesn't help. the 1.0.4.20 internal release changelog mentioned 610 bugzilla entries | 10:48 |
| phaeron | and that's not even all of them | 10:48 |
| VDVsx | TheBootroo_work, trojita is a fork of QMF our MW, what problems you have with IMAP ? | 10:48 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: and I can understand lack of resources and people, but at some point you must ask yourself if the lost potential of not fully utilised open source community isn't bigger than the cost of complexity | 10:49 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: trying to synchronize this magnitude of information while trying to make a product is .. to put it lightly .. challenging. Yes I fully realize the amount of lost potential as well. | 10:50 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: again, tjc was supposed to help with that. you can for example list the most voted questions and choose one where you can help. | 10:50 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: since a lot of them touch middleware which is fully open | 10:50 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: tjc is something that describes things in very general way | 10:51 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: and people usually want to help in place they have either competences or motivation to acquire them | 10:52 |
| Acce | You should have some guy who is dedicated fully to help people start contributing, nemo and mer lacks in documentation and I think it's not trivial task to familiarize with the code by yourself | 10:52 |
| fk_lx | Acce: +1 | 10:52 |
| TheBootroo_work | VDVsx: nope trojita is not a fork of anything, it's a implementatino from scratch of the imap protocol | 10:53 |
| phaeron | Acce: so from architectural point of view ? | 10:53 |
| VDVsx | TheBootroo_work, LOL | 10:53 |
| VDVsx | TheBootroo_work, diff the code | 10:53 |
| VDVsx | TheBootroo_work, start here: https://qt.gitorious.org/qt-labs/messagingframework/source/02855e364de2297bf32a2d71d57d681fffa95e7f: | 10:53 |
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| TheBootroo_work | the problems i have is that e.g: IDLE is not handled | 10:53 |
| Acce | phaeron: yes, what parts affects what, what parts depend on each other, what is their place in the whole system | 10:54 |
| TheBootroo_work | VDVsx: the guy who developed Trojta did it in the scope of a thesis | 10:54 |
| VDVsx | TheBootroo_work, some bits are missing, MW is fully capable of IDLE, same MW as n9 | 10:54 |
| VDVsx | TheBootroo_work, well, hope he mentioned from where the code came from | 10:55 |
| fk_lx | Acce: and finally who is who ;-) | 10:55 |
| Acce | fk_lx: yep, that too :) | 10:55 |
| phaeron | now that is concrete suggestion. we can probably include some architectural view in the sailfish docs | 10:55 |
| TheBootroo_work | VDVsx: didn't he reimplemented the IMAP protocol ? | 10:55 |
| fk_lx | for know who is who is this page: https://sailfishos.org/community.html | 10:55 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: Acce people come and go. no one person is responsible for a certain area. ( with all respect due to area experts ) | 10:56 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: but you won't tell me that everyone is doing everything | 10:56 |
| TheBootroo_work | VDVsx: are you saying me that if i build a plain Qt / QMF mail client, i get trojita implementation ? | 10:56 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: no but naming _one_ person as responsible for something isn't going to work , he could be busy , on vacation , not interested. etc .. | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | i think area owners should be somewhat okay to list | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | but yes, people move area and efforts a lot | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | or maintainers | 10:58 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: who said about one person? besides if the situation is dynamic nothing prevents to show that now this is the contact person | 10:58 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: as long as it is updated ( /me looks at some of the old code contacts ) :) | 10:58 |
| Acce | I think, one thing you could do is to ask (on TJC maybe), why people hesitate to dig into the opened parts of the code | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | phaeron: yeah, fair enough | 10:58 |
| Acce | like why there is no contribution to the sailfish browser yet | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | Acce: good suggestion | 10:59 |
| jake9xx_ | Acce: same goes for majority of middleware, it's pretty much all there in github | 10:59 |
| fk_lx | jake9xx_: with all respect, Tizen code is availiable on gitweb, so what? | 11:00 |
| fk_lx | jake9xx_: open source is not only about publishing code somewhere, it's good for a start | 11:01 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: I don't know about tizen , but at least we do _all_ the development of the open parts .. in the open | 11:02 |
| fk_lx | jake9xx_: AOSP is also there, does that mean people have much influence how stock Google Android looks? | 11:02 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: how it looks and what works are different things. | 11:03 |
| phaeron | if the middleware exports some functionality any one can make an ui to use it | 11:03 |
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| fk_lx | phaeron: is bugtracker important part of development process? In my opinion it is, so it's not development fully in the open | 11:04 |
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| phaeron | I explained the difficulty of that part | 11:04 |
| VDVsx | TheBootroo_work, for example: https://github.com/jktjkt/trojita/blob/master/src/Imap/Encoders.cpp#L207 and https://qt.gitorious.org/qt-labs/messagingframework/source/02855e364de2297bf32a2d71d57d681fffa95e7f:src/libraries/qmfclient/qmailmessage.cpp#L507 | 11:04 |
| VDVsx | TheBootroo_work, mentioned that because there's a bug there | 11:05 |
| phaeron | we don't have "community managers" | 11:05 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: sure I understand your point of view, but don't call that development in the open, in my opinion it's only part of development process in the open | 11:05 |
| jussi | just Stskeeps :P :P | 11:05 |
| VDVsx | btw, this guys is violating Qt licenses all over, need to talk to someone... | 11:05 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: this conversation is about improving it :) | 11:06 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: talking is usually good, but then at some point the conclusions matters and actions to be taken as result of that | 11:08 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: so one thing identified is missing architectural overview. two is roadmap. | 11:08 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: I'm a little bit having deja-vu effect of such talks, but then it ends "not now, after 27th Nov", "not now, after first update", "not now MWC is coming", "not now we are relasing next update" | 11:09 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: so I am a bit afraid, that there will be never good time for actions in that area ;-) | 11:10 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: side effect of _everyone_ working frantically towards survival goals. | 11:10 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: well speaking of survival, sometimes closing inside your own tribe doesn't help the survival | 11:11 |
| tbr | so, if someone is pondering to send a letter to Jolla and request sources, you don't really have to: http://images.formeego.org/jolla/sources/ | 11:12 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: Jolla (or it's managers) chosen certain general path/strategy it has it's pros and cons, how it will work we will see, but it's good to know that there are alternative paths, that contain more community involvement | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: another good thing to improve.. | 11:13 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: if you guys want to do yourself and me a favour, make the md5sum of the iso public. I've double checked with Jope that I've done the ISO right and the md5 matches. | 11:14 |
| Jope | phoob leek | 11:15 |
| Jope | edf77a4e2449fa23403368d77b9cd59c | 11:15 |
| Jope | :-D | 11:15 |
| tbr | memory leeks, good lunch option | 11:15 |
| * Jope plays some loituma | 11:15 | |
| tbr | now it's in the logs, written by a sailor, might be good enough for some people. :) | 11:15 |
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| Jope | perhoops :-D | 11:15 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: and all I'm trying to do is to show that alternative paths exist that are fair alternatives, usually many roads lead to the same destination, some might be even faster or have other benefits than the old known path ;-) | 11:15 |
| phaeron | fk_lx: I wouldn't be having this conversation if I didn't think it would be useful | 11:17 |
| fk_lx | phaeron: ;-) | 11:18 |
| tbr | let's hope the DISCLAIMER on the tweet works and we don't see some journo jumping the gun "Jolla releases ALL THE sources for its sailfishos" or such... >.< | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: next up, engadget | 11:20 |
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| Venemo_j | o | 11:24 |
| Venemo_j | m | 11:24 |
| Venemo_j | g | 11:24 |
| Venemo_j | this topic again? | 11:24 |
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| Stskeeps | i think it's been a good topic | 11:25 |
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| fk_lx | Venemo_j: this topic hasn't become irrevelant, it's still something that make sense | 11:28 |
| fk_lx | *makes | 11:28 |
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| fk_lx | *irrelevant | 11:30 |
| fk_lx | sorry making mistakes | 11:30 |
| fk_lx | ;-) | 11:30 |
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| Venemo_j | no problem | 11:36 |
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| xmlich02 | Stskeeps, next random reboot bootup_reason=0xAFFEFF57 see http://pastebin.com/3EiMVJru | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | xmlich02: reboot while on USB? | 11:54 |
| xmlich02 | I has rebooted twice, after first reboot I have connected usb | 11:55 |
| xmlich02 | The lastlog /proc/lastlog/* is empty | 11:55 |
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| Stskeeps | ah.. | 11:56 |
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| chem|st | how do I manage to have my btrfs formatted uSD mounted properly after boot? | 12:23 |
| phaeron | chem|st: should work with 1.0.4.20 already ? | 12:23 |
| chem|st | I seem unable to find the "current" solution, most stuff is for pre 4.20 | 12:23 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: works in 1.0.4.20 in /media/sdcard/{uuid} | 12:24 |
| chem|st | phaeron: I had to mount manually last reboot | 12:24 |
| Wnt | mounting should be automatic with the built in scripts in 1.0.4.20 | 12:24 |
| Wnt | and works at least on my device without problems | 12:24 |
| Bysmyyr | hmm, that interesting info | 12:24 |
| Wnt | Using a 64GB sc card with one partition formatted as btrfs | 12:25 |
| phaeron | chem|st: it gets mounted after ui is up | 12:25 |
| phaeron | so maybe you were a bit impatient ? | 12:25 |
| chem|st | maybe | 12:25 |
| chem|st | so mount-sd.sh is actually called and does work correctly? | 12:26 |
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| phaeron | chem|st: try again and report if it doesn't. It was tested thoroughly :) | 12:26 |
| chem|st | but it is still to late for ambiences and sounds right? | 12:26 |
| Wnt | when I insert the card to the phone this is the dmesg and journalctl outputs: http://upload.egarden.fi/dmesg_card_insert.txt http://upload.egarden.fi/journalctl_card_insert.txt | 12:26 |
| chem|st | Wnt: I tried with systemctl and that worked so I was wondering what went wrong | 12:27 |
| phaeron | chem|st: there is a bug related to that I think , the components responsible for ambience and stuff don't refresh after the mount happens | 12:27 |
| phaeron | chem|st: gallery and mediaplayer however monitor correctly | 12:27 |
| Bysmyyr | btw, why that is not in releasenotes? | 12:28 |
| chem|st | phaeron: well the script waits for tracker to start, maybe it should not wait for tracker, but tracker should wait for an exit of the script | 12:28 |
| phaeron | Bysmyyr: I think it was discovered after the fact | 12:28 |
| phaeron | chem|st: that's not how things work | 12:29 |
| phaeron | chem|st: tracker is dbus activated anyway | 12:29 |
| chem|st | if it is loaded that late it is quiet useless to look after replacing user folders by now?! | 12:30 |
| phaeron | Wnt: that doesn't look correct | 12:31 |
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| chem|st | I have two subvols, one for default and an android designated | 12:31 |
| phaeron | chem|st: what do you mean ? | 12:31 |
| chem|st | phaeron: mounting subvolumes to /home/nemo/ | 12:31 |
| phaeron | chem|st: that's a different use case. the sdcard partitions are mounted to known location in /media/sdcard/<uuid> | 12:32 |
| chem|st | phaeron: for that reason I have only one partition | 12:32 |
| chem|st | and let btrfs handle what it shows on being called | 12:33 |
| chem|st | or actually no partition, how is it called to let the device have a fs itself | 12:33 |
| chem|st | I created a btrfs /dev/mmcblk1 | 12:34 |
| chem|st | mounted it | 12:34 |
| chem|st | created two subvolumes | 12:34 |
| chem|st | set-default for one of them | 12:34 |
| phaeron | yes so default subvolume will get mounted by default to /media/scard/<uuid> | 12:35 |
| Wnt | phaeron: it doesn't? Mounting works OK on my device | 12:35 |
| chem|st | mount the other subvol with another line after default one in mount-sd.sh | 12:35 |
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| phaeron | if you want something more fancy you need to write a systemd device unit | 12:35 |
| phaeron | Wnt: is this jolla 1.0.4.20 ? | 12:35 |
| phaeron | Wnt: or something else ? :) | 12:35 |
| Wnt | ah those logs were from before the 1.0.4.20 upgrade! | 12:36 |
| phaeron | Wnt: yes exactly :D | 12:36 |
| Wnt | I was just trying to show logs of a working automount, but didn't remember that those logs were so old | 12:36 |
| chem|st | phaeron: this is exactly what I want but I'd like to mount those to some extent to /home/nemo/ well Documents and stuff should be fine to be mounted late... | 12:37 |
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| phaeron | chem|st: it sounds like not the way to go though. maybe bind mounts would be a better idea | 12:37 |
| Wnt | chem|st: maybe you should use symbolic links instead of modifying the mountpoints? | 12:37 |
| chem|st | I'll reboot now and we will see, called from systemctl did work.... | 12:37 |
| chem|st | Wnt: I want to use btrfs powers not crowd my sdcard with .folders | 12:38 |
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| phaeron | to mount /home/nemo you need to do it reaaaally early to catch some stuff that changes settings for example | 12:39 |
| phaeron | other wise things will seem broken | 12:39 |
| phaeron | so instead you can easily mount the "extra" subvol on /mnt/<sdcard> and mount --bind /mnt/sdcard/home/Documents /home/nemo/Documents | 12:40 |
| phaeron | for example | 12:40 |
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| chem|st | yeah everything is mounted correctly | 12:54 |
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| phaeron | \o/ | 12:54 |
| Reilu-Kake | Umm.. I just did a factory reset and updated the phone to the latest update. Now it is constantly spamming and instructs to install Snow White -ambiance. :D It will not install if i press yes, and if i decline the installation, it just popups again. | 13:02 |
| phaeron | Reilu-Kake: you created / enabled jolla account ? | 13:03 |
| Reilu-Kake | Yes i did. :p | 13:03 |
| Reilu-Kake | And tried taking toh off and putting it on again. | 13:03 |
| phaeron | Reilu-Kake: store works ? | 13:04 |
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| chem|st | so now I have no more internet for aliendalvik stuff... | 13:07 |
| chem|st | auditd syslog and plymouth-start.service have an error in ctl list... | 13:08 |
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| tbr | Stskeeps: so, if I want to build the sources, what's the best course of action? Can I just feed the directory to fake-obs and make a real OBS suck that in and rebuild it? | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: you're the first person that has ever asked that | 13:17 |
| tbr | or is that a question for someone else like lbt or phaeron? | 13:17 |
| tbr | yay, I'm fr1st! | 13:17 |
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| tbr | I obviously see that this came out of OBS, with the _service files and all | 13:18 |
| tbr | To be honest I see this as an interesting exercise of something that I've always wondered: Compliance is beyond providing sources, but how do you ensure it in the context of OBS. | 13:19 |
| Stskeeps | the answer is a bit difficult since you need a bootstrapped mer .. :) | 13:19 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 13:19 |
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| Stskeeps | nothing says in gpl to provide the world that it's being built in (think windows), as far as i know, but in practice you can grab the needed rpms from releases.jolla.com for a 1.0.4.20 release and import it into a obs, and let it build for a couple of weeks :P | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | i would love if mer was able to bootstrap itself but it's not atm.. | 13:21 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: or use the 1.0.4.20 build target on obs | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | yes, or that | 13:22 |
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| chem|st | oh nice... | 13:22 |
| tbr | yeah, I realize bootstraping is a problem | 13:22 |
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| phaeron | but don't build the whole thing on community obs, it might implode | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | naah, it'll handle it fine | 13:23 |
| * lbt was wondering about that repo.xml plus a mer target plus a build-order coded into make as .rpm files plus a createrepo and mic and a locally built target and then more make... | 13:23 | |
| tbr | Stskeeps: nothing says that, but in practice being able to build the same binaries from source is implicit proof that you complied with the license. | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: yup | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | which gets immensely more fun to prove given build-id differences | 13:24 |
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| Stskeeps | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBuildId | 13:24 |
| tbr | and yes, I do realize that this is intellectual wanking off to licensing, but still an interesting point to ponder in an open source world | 13:24 |
| chem|st | swapping connections while android stuff is trying to connect made the store crash but afterwards it has connection again -> mdata - no connection, wlan - no connection, switching between them while play store tries to connect - connection, store crashes and disappears from launcher | 13:24 |
| ggabriel | this is why they teach IT in law school | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: in fact i think the vast majority of open source projects are not truly gpl compliant | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | if you really were to fine tooth comb everything | 13:25 |
| tbr | I agree, it is very easy to violate licenses | 13:25 |
| tbr | especially if you ever ship a binary | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | what i'm fairly sure about is that you can rebuild each component on it's own based on a sailfishos repository | 13:25 |
| tbr | yes, that loops into what phaeron said about throwing it at the MOBS sailfish target | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 13:26 |
| phaeron | but if you do build the component and extract the binaries from the rpm and hexdiff them to binaries on the device in most cases there will be no diff | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not even going to bring up the insanity of dependency loops :) | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | phaeron: buildid.. | 13:27 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: the binaries | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, buildid goes into the elf binaries :) | 13:27 |
| tbr | you removed timestamps from most binary builds, right? ;) | 13:27 |
| phaeron | yes but the diff will be small | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 13:27 |
| phaeron | tbr: we try | 13:28 |
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| phaeron | tbr: I personally chase them with a stick if I can | 13:28 |
| tbr | I do fondly remember the cursing from meego and early mer times in that context, yes | 13:28 |
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| netzvieh | so when i move mails to subfolders of inbox in my thunderbird, why isn't that synced to the jolla? :( | 16:09 |
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| netzvieh | and it still takes forever to connect to my jollas sshd :( Jolla sshd logs: https://gist.github.com/netzvieh/b07c006ae76ad0209a57 Client: https://gist.github.com/netzvieh/fa1fba9a5139e40c8743 ... it stands at that for some minutes and then finally connects, after starting over (client: https://gist.github.com/netzvieh/a3c87784c029a41c1d19 jolla: https://gist.github.com/netzvieh/a241d296e3443778a19a ) | 16:45 |
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| netzvieh | so why does it take so long until PAM initializes? | 16:45 |
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| phaeron | netzvieh: wake up the device by double tapping and try again | 16:47 |
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| netzvieh | phaeron: okay, that was instant. so it's only checking all ~5 Minutes if sleeping? | 16:48 |
| phaeron | netzvieh: it's in deep sleep | 16:50 |
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| netzvieh | phaeron: yeah, but I still can't see what is taking that long. | 16:56 |
| netzvieh | is it getting the message from sshd to pam, is it pam taking so long to initialize? | 16:57 |
| phaeron | netzvieh: nothing , the device is just not processing fast | 16:57 |
| phaeron | cpu is sleeping | 16:57 |
| netzvieh | phaeron: well I have another ssh session open, and that's working just fine while the other keeps waiting | 16:58 |
| netzvieh | but maybe the things I tested just didn't use enough cpu ;) | 16:58 |
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| Venemo_j | I just had the swipe bug on 1.0.4.x | 17:07 |
| Reilu-Kake | Is SDcard mounting supported in the newest patch? | 17:10 |
| Quu | awww, jolla doesnt support chromecast | 17:12 |
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| ruskie | Quu, I'd rather have miracast | 17:17 |
| Pnuu | I'd prefer diecast | 17:17 |
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| Yaniel | Reilu-Kake: my sdcard shows up fine | 17:25 |
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| Yaniel | formatted as btrfs | 17:25 |
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| Venemo_j | Reilu-Kake, Yaniel mine too | 17:27 |
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| oh8gnz | pnuu: about 30h usage now and 168h avg shows 105 mW battery level 55,30% and time left 1d 17h | 17:29 |
| oh8gnz | not bad at all | 17:29 |
| Turski | netzvieh: you have changed your jolla's hostname? because that sounds a bit like good old hostname-not-in-/etc/hosts -problem | 17:31 |
| Pnuu | oh8gnz: really nice! | 17:32 |
| Turski | and there's no libnss_myhostname.so in sailfish | 17:33 |
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| netzvieh | Turski: yes. but happens with localhost too | 17:53 |
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| Turski | netzvieh: do you have your hostname appended to /etc/hosts? | 18:01 |
| eitzei | Stskeeps: Hey, you asked to cat /proc/cmdline after next unintended reboot, so here it is: http://iceless.ignorelist.com:12022/view/puqeminehe | 18:05 |
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| netzvieh | Turski: nope, did that now and will test the next days. BUT I hat this issues with localhost as hostname too | 18:18 |
| netzvieh | Turski: but can you give me a short headsup for the good old hostname-not-in-/etc/hosts -problem? | 18:19 |
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| netzvieh | Turski: and doesn't fix it, since device in deep sleep (just waiting again) | 18:25 |
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| shanttu | what is the sync intervall on calendar with google? | 18:26 |
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| Turski | netzvieh: ah, it's not that then if it happened with localhost as hostname too | 18:30 |
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| Turski | netzvieh: btw, aren't you using usb network for accessing jolla? | 18:31 |
| Turski | netzvieh: device shouldn't be in deep sleep if it's plugged in | 18:31 |
| Turski | and i haven't had such delays even over wlan | 18:32 |
| netzvieh | Turski: to many cables ;) prefer wlan if possible | 18:33 |
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| netzvieh | hmm I shouldn't have deleted /data/* ... seems like it won't be reinstalled with the android support package | 18:36 |
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| Acce | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvidoBBJSRA&feature=player_embedded | 19:26 |
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| cvp_ | hi | 19:36 |
| tbr | moo | 19:36 |
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| cvp_ | ;) | 19:36 |
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| stephg | parp | 19:37 |
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| cvp_ | tbr, you know a solution for xmpp to connect to a groupchat (muc-Multi-User-Chat) ? ... | 19:38 |
| tbr | hmm, I suspect the UI might not support that | 19:39 |
| cvp_ | its ok if its possible over terminal :D | 19:39 |
| cvp_ | for me its ok if i need a second account | 19:40 |
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| tbr | I'm wondering what would be a good client | 19:41 |
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| tbr | you could run bitlbee and connect to it using the native jolla IRC client | 19:42 |
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| oh8gnz | my jolla made weird thing.. | 20:03 |
| cvp_ | tbr: i found only this https://pthree.org/2007/12/13/jabber-muc-through-bitlbee/ | 20:03 |
| oh8gnz | after locking screen and then when trying next time to open | 20:04 |
| cvp_ | but it use a bitlbee server | 20:04 |
| oh8gnz | light came but menu was on top and no programs started but couldn't type unlocking code | 20:04 |
| tbr | cvp_: yes, but you can run it on the jolla itself | 20:04 |
| oh8gnz | screens layering was bugging somehow | 20:05 |
| Yaniel | my jolla just experienced a sudden death :/ | 20:05 |
| tbr | cvp_: I'll have a look if I can maybe build it quickly by copying a package | 20:05 |
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| cvp_ | tbr: cool, i will than try it | 20:06 |
| oh8gnz | Yaniel: I had to remove battery to get phone back on use | 20:06 |
| cvp_ | tbr: but file sending will not work right ? :D | 20:06 |
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| tbr | cvp_: found one, just need to check dependencies. https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/server:irc/bitlbee | 20:10 |
| tbr | doesn't look toooo bad, but it does have some dependencies that I'll have to collect | 20:11 |
| cvp_ | hmmmm | 20:15 |
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| Yaniel | I mean it just turned off | 20:16 |
| Yaniel | like *click* | 20:16 |
| Yaniel | no lights, no display, no sound | 20:16 |
| Yaniel | I tried starting fingerterm and suddenly it just went blank | 20:16 |
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| cvp_ | tbr: but i think it snot a good way :( | 20:17 |
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| szopin_sailing | AL13N: are you able to install qt5-qtgui-devel in your dev chroot? | 20:19 |
| louisdk | Hi. I have an IMAP account configured on my Jolla phone however I'm not able to force email checks and the emails comes days delayed. I don't have this problem in Thunderbird/webmail on my laptop. The only way I've been able to fix this was to recreate the account on my phone and then it works fine for a week or so. | 20:19 |
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| tbr | cvp_: depends on what you want to achieve | 20:21 |
| tbr | for group chat I think this combination would be quite good | 20:21 |
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| flux | nicd-, well, I signed up to Jolla Hack Day, and I might even actually end up there :-o | 20:29 |
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| memoryleak_ | hi all | 20:30 |
| szopin_sailing | wish those would get hosted also outside of fin | 20:30 |
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| kimmoli | https://twitter.com/zzste/status/448916333435293700/photo/1 soon? | 20:32 |
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| Yaniel | 2nd fist is wrong | 20:32 |
| Yaniel | it should be the other one | 20:33 |
| Yaniel | or just mirrored | 20:33 |
| cvp_ | kimmoli: looks grate... but in gemany send small % of the user a mms | 20:34 |
| cvp_ | but nice to have :) | 20:35 |
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| kimmoli_sailing | at least receiving those would be useful... | 20:36 |
| cvp_ | jap right | 20:36 |
| tbr | szopin_sailing: there was one in Berlin recently | 20:37 |
| tbr | szopin_sailing: all it takes is some users | 20:37 |
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| tbr | szopin_sailing: I ran two events in poland, btw. One in Wrocław and one in Poznań. | 20:37 |
| cvp_ | cool :) | 20:38 |
| szopin_sailing | maybe stskeeps will make in warsaw | 20:38 |
| tbr | that was back in december | 20:38 |
| cvp_ | poland for ever :D | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | szopin_sailing: well, we can make meet-up-for-a-beer event | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | also, i've actually done a few in hackerspace | 20:39 |
| szopin_sailing | :) | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | (thanks to fk_lx organising..) | 20:39 |
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| tbr | szopin_sailing: so the question is rather, why didn't you go to one of those? ;) | 20:42 |
| szopin_sailing | did anyone manage to make a full qt-devel env on the phone? chroot will be fine, from al13en desc on tjc he mentions packages need ti be installed outside of chroot though, so expexting libhybris collisions will happen | 20:43 |
| szopin_sailing | work, I noticed the one in poznan too late to take a day off | 20:43 |
| tbr | cvp_: bitlbee seems to build but fails to create the package as it's opensuse packaging style. Feel free to fork (copypac) my package and fix it. | 20:44 |
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| szopin_sailing | btw did jolla staff get a couple of hwkb ohs to investigate the sudden key repeats with daemon going down, or is kimmo our only hope? | 20:49 |
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| kimmoli_sailing | wut | 20:50 |
| szopin_sailing | i can bring mine to the maybe-beer-meetup if you would want to have a look stskeeps | 20:50 |
| szopin_sailing | you don't have those? | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | szopin_sailing: i'm doing a bit different work than TOHs :) | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | you should see my magical desk of devices though | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:51 |
| tbr | pictures or gtfo! ;-þ | 20:52 |
| kimmoli | szopin_sailing: mean this "everything was working cool and dandy, then red-led-blinking reboot and since then cannot get my hwkb to work reliably," `` | 20:52 |
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| Venemo_ | how does one get a hwkb TOH? | 20:53 |
| szopin_sailing | kimmo: after the first red reboot can't get it to work, restarted service 5 times today, it goes into keyrepeat loop, still afraid to force it off for 10 min powerdown | 20:54 |
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| szopin_sailing | yeah | 20:54 |
| kimmoli_sailing | uh | 20:55 |
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| szopin_sailing | going to make a PR with moving [] in place of <> as thèse are availablebwith shift+., btw | 20:56 |
| szopin_sailing | not sure what to do with {} though | 20:57 |
| kimmoli_sailing | the print is kinda 'tight'... but there is no repeat as functionality yet. and i havent got such problems | 20:57 |
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| szopin_sailing | yeah, i know.t | 20:58 |
| szopin_sailing | his is a 'feature' | 20:58 |
| kimmoli_sailing | pr is welcome.. should make mappings externally to a textfile | 20:58 |
| szopin_sailing | with the current way, no way | 20:58 |
| kimmoli_sailing | maybe something wrong with uinput handling | 20:59 |
| szopin_sailing | shifted keys are tied to main mappings | 20:59 |
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| szopin_sailing | there is no mapping for 'A' it works based on a, which is why shift+. gives duplicate > | 21:02 |
| louisdk | Anybody having problems with delayed incoming mails while syncing their IMAP account on their Jolla? | 21:02 |
| kimmoli | szopin_sailing: is it possible to see journal what happens when this repeat occurs? does it also repeat there? if so then there might be something fishy in hw connections | 21:02 |
| stephg | louisdk, sorry no, it works for me | 21:02 |
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| szopin_sailing | my journal stops working rather quickly | 21:02 |
| szopin_sailing | (at least from ssh in, need to check with another fingerterm opened) | 21:03 |
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| kimmoli | ah, you mean journalctl -f stops following? | 21:04 |
| szopin_sailing | yeah | 21:04 |
| kimmoli | been there :( bug? | 21:04 |
| szopin_sailing | possibly | 21:04 |
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| aranea | Hi. Does anyone of you own one of these protective leather cases sold by DNA? | 21:06 |
| kimmoli | i did enable persistent journal, so ican see what happens even if reboots | 21:06 |
| szopin_sailing | or the static power mgmt, not sure | 21:06 |
| szopin_sailing | how? | 21:07 |
| kimmoli | moment | 21:07 |
| kimmoli | in /etc/systemd/journald.conf | 21:08 |
| aranea | I wonder if the flap can be folded by 180°, so that you can hold the phone from both sides. That's not visible in any of the available photos... | 21:09 |
| louisdk | I have an IMAP account configured on my Jolla phone however I'm not able to force email checks and the emails comes days delayed. I don't have this problem in Thunderbird/webmail on my laptop. The only way I've been able to fix this was to recreate the account on my phone and then it works fine for a week or so. Output of "sudo journalctl -fa" while trying to sync: http://pastebin.com/pXRxmj02 | 21:09 |
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| AL13N | szopin_sailing: i haven't had any need for that yet, so i didn't try | 21:10 |
| szopin_ | argh, copy in irc for sailfish doesn't work :( | 21:11 |
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| stephg | louisdk, nothing seems particularly wrong there | 21:11 |
| stephg | how big is the imap inbox? | 21:11 |
| stephg | 100s/1000s/tens of thousands of emails? | 21:12 |
| szopin_ | kimmo: noted in head, will check it out thx | 21:12 |
| kimmoli | szopin_: it is fingerterm that does not work with clipboard | 21:12 |
| kimmoli | (irc copy works fine for me) | 21:12 |
| szopin_ | al13en: didn't try to build qycreator? :) | 21:12 |
| szopin_ | really need that 10min windows reboot | 21:13 |
| kimmoli | but tohkbd is blocking that ? | 21:14 |
| szopin_ | worst part in fingerterm currently.is bad mc behaviour for me | 21:14 |
| szopin_ | black parts and refresh wonky, works perfectly from ssh | 21:15 |
| szopin_ | both nieldk's scons and my own ncurses versions have this | 21:16 |
| szopin_ | hoping to get some qt term to work | 21:16 |
| louisdk | stephg: it seems like 284 mb. I've a lot of mails and never deletes them. | 21:17 |
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| stephg | is this on the modem or wireless? | 21:18 |
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| louisdk | stephg: I have problems on both 3G and Wifi. Looking at my webhost it says that my IMAP mail address does have mails for 933 MB. Could that size be a problem? | 21:21 |
| Quu | probably | 21:21 |
| louisdk | I also had mail problems with the Nokia N9. However Nokia N900 seems to work fine regarding my big inbox. | 21:23 |
| AL13N | szopin_: i've built stuff, but more basic stuff, no apps, nor qtcreator itself... my apps are at still only QML | 21:23 |
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| stephg | louisdk, how big are the datbases and files in ~nemo/.qmf? | 21:26 |
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| louisdk | stephg: /home/nemo/.qmf is 11MB | 21:29 |
| stephg | I wonder if your sqlite DB has got its knickers in a twist | 21:30 |
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| louisdk | stephg: Would it then help to delete and recreate the account on my phone? | 21:31 |
| stephg | the databases persist iirc | 21:32 |
| stephg | but it wouldn't hurt | 21:32 |
| stephg | how's your sql? | 21:32 |
| stephg | you can always query the DB by hand :) | 21:32 |
| stephg | for comparison my DB dir is 24 meg and the imap cache nearly 100 | 21:33 |
| stephg | (that's two accounts, one google and one regular imap, and I had trouble with the google one when I ran out of disk space) | 21:33 |
| stephg | recreating the google one fixed it | 21:33 |
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| louisdk | Hmm. I just edited my email account and updated the password and now it's syncing fine. | 21:38 |
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| louisdk | stephg: How I got mails until monday at 14:10 and not later :s | 21:45 |
| stephg | hm | 21:46 |
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| stephg | and if you sync again | 21:49 |
| stephg | is the mail at 14:10 particularly large? | 21:49 |
| Bernte | My wife just ordered a Jolla for my birthday - so much for surprises ... | 21:49 |
| Bernte | How long is delivery time to the UK? | 21:49 |
| stephg | few weeks Bernte | 21:50 |
| louisdk | Istephg: I remember renaming .local/share/commhistory/commhistory.db to .bak because of a syncing with my old Nokia N9 making duplicate contacts and no it's just a simple text mail. | 21:50 |
| Bernte | Well - so I cannot expect it to arrive within the next week then ... how sad. thnx | 21:50 |
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| stephg | louisdk, don't think that should matter | 21:51 |
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| louisdk | stephg: I've recreated the IMAP account and it seems to sync fine at least for now. Thanks for your help. | 21:58 |
| stephg | see how it goes | 21:58 |
| stephg | hopefully that'll solve the issues | 21:58 |
| louisdk | stephg: Yearh. | 21:59 |
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| szopin | phew, managed to dislodge the oh with a butter knife | 22:00 |
| kimmoli | oo | 22:01 |
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| lbt | Bernte: I don't think it's that long | 22:12 |
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| szopin | kimmo: for persistent journald change Storage=volatile to Storage=persistent in /etc/systemd/journald.conf? | 22:18 |
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| Turski | szopin: you also need to create /var/log/journal directory | 22:34 |
| szopin | thx | 22:35 |
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| * kimmoli sleeps already | 22:35 | |
| szopin | sweet dreams :) | 22:35 |
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| kimmoli | and restart the systemdjourland tjsp GN | 22:36 |
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| M4rtinK | might be a good TJO wiki-question :) | 22:37 |
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| Nightmare__ | https://together.jolla.com/question/4842/how-to-enable-more-detailed-and-persistent-logs-on-jolla-device/ | 23:21 |
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