| *** frinring_ is now known as frinring | 01:49 | |
| *** jrt is now known as Guest87737 | 02:16 | |
| Mirv | pa: hey, I used to be one of the maintainers but since I couldn't anymore do that as part of my job and started other work and limitations with free time, I haven't worked on it for years othern than offering some random help | 06:02 |
|---|---|---|
| Mirv | since then the two main maintainers of Qt in Debian realized they can't commit to the Qt 6 work (maintaining properly modularized Qt packaging with all bells and whistles is huge work), so there's no-one doing Qt 6 for time being. they've offered reviewing/sponsoring support for anyone wanting to tackle Qt 6 in August https://alioth-lists.debian.net/pipermail/pkg-kde-talk/2020-August/003095.html | 06:06 |
| juhaj | Help needed... I have all my google calendars doubled in Calendar though I only have configured one Google Account. Any idea how to remove the duplicates? | 15:25 |
| mpol | juhaj: are you on 4.0.1 or older? It is fixed in 4.1.0 which is only available as EA currently. | 21:07 |
| juhaj | mpol: | Sailfish OS 4.0.1.48 (Koli) | 21:11 |
| juhaj | So I'll have to wait :( | 21:11 |
| mpol | ah, yes. | 21:11 |
| mpol | or install 4.1.0 EA, it is not that buggy :) | 21:11 |
| juhaj | Does 4.1 fix google contact syncing, too? | 21:11 |
| mpol | I don't use it, but I think it does, yes | 21:12 |
| juhaj | Hm.. is there an ETA? | 21:13 |
| Mister_Magister | can someone cancel 4.1 | 21:14 |
| juhaj | I'm about to turn heretic and go Android in a couple of weeks due to no fresh Sailfish phones available :( | 21:14 |
| Mister_Magister | two of my apps aren't starting properly | 21:14 |
| Mister_Magister | even tho they always did | 21:14 |
| mpol | no, always Jolla Time. But looking at the samll number of bugs it will be a matter of weeks I think | 21:14 |
| Mister_Magister | >no fresh sailfish phones available | 21:15 |
| Mister_Magister | lol what | 21:15 |
| mpol | Xeria 10 II just got released for 4.1.0 | 21:15 |
| mpol | Xperia 10 II | 21:15 |
| Mister_Magister | not to mention abundance of sfos phones | 21:15 |
| juhaj | mpol: But afaik there is no properly working Google Play Store and Service on it | 21:16 |
| mpol | juhaj: ehm, that might be. I stay away from that, I even avoid MicroG | 21:16 |
| juhaj | mpol: I've been hounding a friend who works at Jolla to confirm if there are any newer phones than AquaFish which have fully functional google on it, but he cannot come up with any :( | 21:17 |
| Mister_Magister | juhaj: you want google store and services | 21:17 |
| Mister_Magister | or you want sailfish | 21:17 |
| Mister_Magister | to me sounds like you want android not sailfish | 21:17 |
| Mister_Magister | reconsider what you want | 21:17 |
| Mister_Magister | mpol: gets it, he wants sailfish | 21:18 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: I want a usable GUI, that is SFOS; I also want a specific list of apps, that are android-only (and one of them is dropping 4.4 support next month) | 21:18 |
| Mister_Magister | too bad | 21:18 |
| Nico[m] | juhaj: Most Xperias support Android > 4.4 | 21:19 |
| Nico[m] | But if you want Google services, Sailfish is probably the wrong pick | 21:19 |
| juhaj | Nico[m]: But not store&services | 21:19 |
| juhaj | Nico[m]: That's really strange as they both work perfectly fine on the AquaFish | 21:20 |
| Nico[m] | juhaj: Google Play Services are not Android. They are a horrible Google invention to lock you into their ecosystem | 21:20 |
| Mister_Magister | you don't even need them | 21:20 |
| juhaj | Nico[m]: Don't worry, I have been locked into either Google or Apple without being consulted, so that ship has sailed | 21:20 |
| Mister_Magister | thats not really an argument | 21:21 |
| juhaj | Nico[m]: I'd just like to have a useable uesr interface - neither android nor ios provides that | 21:21 |
| Nathan[m] | Don't people use MicroG and Aurora Store on Sailfish? I'm not sure how they work, but I was under the impression that they allow to use applications that require Google Services without having to install Google Services. | 21:21 |
| Mister_Magister | Nathan[m]: they do | 21:21 |
| Malinux | I use MicroG + Aurora for apps that's not nativly available in SFOS. Also I use F-droid | 21:22 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: And they together provide a full feature set? | 21:22 |
| Nico[m] | juhaj: A useable interface includes the apps. Android apps have horrible UX | 21:22 |
| Mister_Magister | juhaj: no | 21:22 |
| juhaj | Nico[m]: Agreed. But as there are android apps that I have to use without being consulted about it, I have to live with those apps having a horrible UX. I would rather not have the OS itself and other apps have it, too | 21:23 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: Then it's a no-go, too risky given the price involved (if I had hardware to test with, I'd be happy to) | 21:23 |
| Mister_Magister | then go back to android | 21:23 |
| Mister_Magister | because you want android | 21:23 |
| Mister_Magister | not sailfishos | 21:24 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: Back to android? WTF are you talking abot? | 21:24 |
| Mister_Magister | if you want sailfishos use sailfishos apps | 21:24 |
| juhaj | +u | 21:24 |
| Malinux | Isn't that a black n' white way to see it? | 21:24 |
| Nico[m] | Well, I warned you, that Android apps will always be second class on Sailfish. Just stay with android, if you really need those apps. | 21:24 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: You're not being sensible now. Please read what I've written. | 21:24 |
| Mister_Magister | i don't get people who come to sailfishos and running mainly android apps. Sailfish isn't just a ui | 21:24 |
| Nico[m] | Sailfish can't guarantee that Google Play Service dependent apps will work well :3 | 21:24 |
| juhaj | Nico[m]: Why are you, too, telling me to "stay" with Android? | 21:25 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: especially with google recent restritions | 21:25 |
| Mister_Magister | juhaj: because thats what you want | 21:25 |
| Mister_Magister | its obvious | 21:25 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: Please do not tell me what I want after I've just told you what I want. | 21:25 |
| Malinux | Sailfish actually provide the ability to run Android Apps. If we follow this logic, people who don't want Android shouldn't use Sailfish? | 21:25 |
| Mister_Magister | Malinux: how so | 21:26 |
| juhaj | Malinux: Some people just want to be offensive to others | 21:26 |
| Mister_Magister | android layer is purely optional | 21:26 |
| Malinux | juhaj: so it seems | 21:26 |
| Nico[m] | juhaj: Because I think Android will give you a better experience, if you really need a lot of Android apps to run well. If you only need a few and they can run on Sailfish, that is an option, but if you really mostly need Android apps, I just can't recommend it. Feel free to ignore me, but with limited funds, that is the decision I would make. | 21:26 |
| Mister_Magister | ^ | 21:27 |
| juhaj | Malinux: It's quite educational, though. I've been puzzled by why so many people find this or that open source thing unwelcoming and/or non-inclusive. I never did, but I'm now starting to learn. | 21:27 |
| Malinux | Mister_Magister: yeah, but it's there. What's wrong about using it? I feel the android layer is a necessety | 21:27 |
| Malinux | not a wanted necessety though | 21:27 |
| Mister_Magister | Malinux: its not always there | 21:27 |
| Mister_Magister | and no, its not necessary | 21:27 |
| Malinux | Mister_Magister: I know you chose if it you want it or not. Though, for many people unfortunately, a Sailfish app isn't available | 21:28 |
| Mister_Magister | i'm aware | 21:28 |
| Nico[m] | Malinux: Using the android layer is totally fine, but using it with Google play stuff and Google apps is just not a good experience imo :3 | 21:28 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: again saying based stuff | 21:28 |
| juhaj | Nico[m]: I think I already covered that bit. I need a few, and they work well enough on AquaFish. In fact the only problem with them is that running more than one at a time makes it swap all the time because it's got so little memory and android apps are so memory hungry compared to native SFOS apps. So I'm perfectly happy with SFOS, except next month I need Android > 4.4. | 21:29 |
| Mister_Magister | like if you need one or two apps then sure but no point in fighting for full blown android experience | 21:29 |
| Mister_Magister | wiith google play and stuff | 21:29 |
| Malinux | Nico[m]: I agree on that. If it was about the google play and google apps I sort of agree though. If it's against android apps in general I don't agree. and I might have misunderstood the arguments | 21:29 |
| Malinux | ah, yeah | 21:29 |
| Nico[m] | juhaj: Do you know which apps you need specifically? If it is just a couple, maybe I can try them on the 10 II next week and give you feedback, if they run without Google services or so? | 21:30 |
| Mister_Magister | I just dislike when people come to sfos with android in mind and want to make android out of sfos and just use sfos as an android app launcher, whats the point in that. Two supporting apps that you can't get like bank or something is fine… | 21:30 |
| Malinux | I know an app that don't run with MicroG at all. It's called vipps, an payment app. Almost everyone uses it in Norway now. I have a second phone so I can use it if necessary, but I don't like how it is heavely dependent on safetny net from google | 21:30 |
| Malinux | ah, then I misunderstood you Mister_Magister | 21:30 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: Maybe you should then make fewer assumptions and check your facts first? | 21:31 |
| Mister_Magister | juhaj: not really, no | 21:31 |
| Malinux | That said. I feel like the tone even though it probably not inteneded, might come out as harsh | 21:31 |
| Mister_Magister | i'm still keeping my opinion that you should just use android | 21:31 |
| Mister_Magister | or both | 21:31 |
| Mister_Magister | Malinux: oh ye that happens with me | 21:32 |
| Nico[m] | Mister_Magister can come across as a bit rude sometimes, I agree, but I guess he mostly means well... maybe ;p | 21:32 |
| juhaj | Nico[m]: That would be fabulous, thanks! PM? | 21:32 |
| Mister_Magister | juhaj: so if i was hars or unpleasant, that wasn't intended, sorry | 21:32 |
| Nico[m] | juhaj: Feel free, but my phone will only arrive on like Friday or so :3 | 21:32 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: yeah i got problem with unintentional rudeness :P idk whats rude to people for me its just statement | 21:32 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: Apology accepted. | 21:32 |
| Malinux | <3 | 21:33 |
| Mister_Magister | i've been rocking pure sailfish since like 6 years | 21:33 |
| Nico[m] | Mister_Magister: I feel like you can work on it ;p | 21:33 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: Just to clarify, I've never had android. Been on MeeGo and then SailFish | 21:33 |
| Mister_Magister | ports don't have aliendalvik | 21:33 |
| Malinux | nice. you have a second phone for android stuff? | 21:33 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: i'm working on it | 21:33 |
| Mister_Magister | people are… complicated | 21:33 |
| Nico[m] | 👍 | 21:33 |
| Mister_Magister | Malinux: no | 21:33 |
| Mister_Magister | no android in this household | 21:33 |
| Malinux | I must admit, I ran google play on the aqua fish, though it just felt wrong | 21:33 |
| Malinux | Mister_Magister: nice :) | 21:33 |
| Mister_Magister | tho i keep recommending people to have two phones | 21:33 |
| Mister_Magister | one with android bs and one pure sfos | 21:34 |
| juhaj | Malinux: It does make one feel dirty, doesn't it? :) | 21:34 |
| Mister_Magister | you will get best of two worlds that way | 21:34 |
| Nico[m] | I have exactly 2 Android apps installed on one of my phones. One of them I am working on a replacement for and the other one I intend to drop completely :D | 21:34 |
| Malinux | I came from Nokia N900 and N9, and wanted ubuntu phone, but because it can't run android apps I went for Sailfish | 21:34 |
| Malinux | juhaj: yeah | 21:34 |
| Mister_Magister | and if you find yourself using android phone more… you know what you got to do | 21:34 |
| Nico[m] | Mister_Magister: Write more apps? ;p | 21:35 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: Malinux: I'm also in bit diff position as a dev… sfos is DIY project for me, if i lack app, i make it | 21:35 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: well no | 21:35 |
| Nico[m] | Pff, works for me | 21:35 |
| Mister_Magister | works for me too | 21:35 |
| Mister_Magister | as mentioned above | 21:35 |
| Malinux | yeah, I wish I was able to make apps myself, but I've tried multiple attempts to learn to code and well, it just ends up in frustration | 21:35 |
| Mister_Magister | sfos is mainly DIY | 21:35 |
| Mister_Magister | Malinux: you can't just wake up one day and decide to make an app | 21:36 |
| Malinux | The rest I am mostly capable of doing. Not being able to code when I am this into IT feels like I guess, if you can't read and write | 21:36 |
| Malinux | Mister_Magister: no | 21:36 |
| Mister_Magister | its like taking hammer and wanting to build ship | 21:36 |
| Mister_Magister | doesn't work like that | 21:36 |
| Nico[m] | Malinux: Coding can be pretty hard. You need to put a lot of effort into it or pay someone to do it for you :D | 21:36 |
| Mister_Magister | but if you are not having fun with coding there's no point | 21:36 |
| Malinux | yeah. It's very hard, and I struggle with ADD so I need fast rewards :S | 21:37 |
| Malinux | it's not fun if it don't work :) | 21:37 |
| Mister_Magister | Malinux: i keep asking people what app they want for them to drop android part | 21:37 |
| Mister_Magister | noone gave me reasonable idea | 21:37 |
| Nico[m] | I found programming to actually help with my ADD, because it is the one thing I can focus on for hours. But I am lucky, I guess. | 21:38 |
| Nico[m] | I do practice annoyance driven programming though. I only fix issues, that annoy me personally :D | 21:38 |
| Mister_Magister | I like talking to computers | 21:38 |
| Mister_Magister | they don't get angery when i talk mean | 21:38 |
| Mister_Magister | when i say "this stuff is garbage" then they understand that this stuff is garbage | 21:38 |
| Nico[m] | Mister_Magister: I want a proper banking app :3 | 21:39 |
| Mister_Magister | did you miss word "reasonable" | 21:39 |
| Nico[m] | Yes | 21:39 |
| Mister_Magister | kk | 21:39 |
| juhaj | Nico[m]: That would be a bonus. Both my banks baulk at "rooted" android ;) | 21:39 |
| Mister_Magister | my bank has website, i use website, i'm happy | 21:39 |
| Mister_Magister | and i have credit card | 21:40 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: Mine aren't full featured on the web any more :( | 21:40 |
| Mister_Magister | who wants more | 21:40 |
| Malinux | If you can make sailfish app for ruter bilett, oxford dictionary, vipps, we-connect and maybe sync (the one to read reddit) | 21:40 |
| Mister_Magister | juhaj: those are retarded | 21:40 |
| Mister_Magister | and should be treated as such | 21:40 |
| Nico[m] | My bank is disabling SMS tans now, so I need to either always carry a hardware piece, that sometimes works, or use their android app... | 21:40 |
| Mister_Magister | imagine forcing you to use android/ios | 21:40 |
| Mister_Magister | thats bs | 21:40 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: Yes, but banks did the vendor lock-in way earlier than google & apple :( | 21:40 |
| Nico[m] | Malinux: There is already a perfect reddit app on Sailfish | 21:40 |
| Malinux | yeah, though it's not as sofisticated as sync I feel | 21:41 |
| Mister_Magister | reddit app is one of top well made apps on sfos | 21:41 |
| Nico[m] | I don't know, what I am missing, I guess? | 21:41 |
| Malinux | vipps complain my phone is rooted, but my banking app works just fine | 21:41 |
| Mister_Magister | like no joke | 21:41 |
| Malinux | reminds me. I need to reinstall it | 21:41 |
| Mister_Magister | best of the best well made apps on sfos | 21:41 |
| Malinux | Nico[m]: yeah, perhaps fixing issues is what I should focus on in the start. | 21:41 |
| Mister_Magister | there are handful of apps i would call production grade | 21:41 |
| Nico[m] | But I really love quickddit and it is much better than the website by miles | 21:42 |
| Malinux | yeah. I've uset quickeddit | 21:42 |
| Mister_Magister | quickditt, piepmatz, ownkeepass are the production level apps | 21:43 |
| Mister_Magister | best of the best well made apps | 21:43 |
| Mister_Magister | on par with android ones | 21:43 |
| Malinux | ah, yeah, ownkeepass I use. It's very good | 21:43 |
| Mister_Magister | other two are very good too | 21:43 |
| Mister_Magister | like im saying on the android apps level | 21:44 |
| Malinux | yeah | 21:44 |
| Nico[m] | I also like the Foil suite of apps, although they have a bit more narrow focus | 21:44 |
| Mister_Magister | Foil? | 21:44 |
| Nico[m] | But yeah, werkwolf is awesome | 21:44 |
| Malinux | sounds familiar, but I can't wrap my head around what it is again | 21:44 |
| Nico[m] | Foil Auth, Foil Notes, Foil Pics | 21:44 |
| Mister_Magister | ahh by monich | 21:44 |
| Nico[m] | Encrypted 2FA, pictures and notes | 21:45 |
| Malinux | oh | 21:45 |
| Mister_Magister | well those are like same functionality in 4 apps | 21:45 |
| Malinux | so foil auth is an app I can use to replace Authy? | 21:45 |
| Mister_Magister | just bit different | 21:45 |
| Mister_Magister | xd | 21:45 |
| Nico[m] | Malinux: Yes | 21:45 |
| Nico[m] | I've used it as my only 2FA app for ages now | 21:45 |
| Nico[m] | I also like that it integrates with the Sailfish backup now :3 | 21:45 |
| Malinux | can I use them together with authy? | 21:46 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: what if your foilauth data was corrupted | 21:46 |
| Mister_Magister | and you cannot 2fa anymore | 21:46 |
| Mister_Magister | how do you recover from that | 21:46 |
| Mister_Magister | its been bugging me | 21:46 |
| Nico[m] | Then I will hopefully have a backup ;p | 21:46 |
| Mister_Magister | and if you don't | 21:46 |
| Nico[m] | I lost my data once, just had to reset my password everywhere with my mail address | 21:46 |
| Nico[m] | It was a bit too easy to do tbh | 21:47 |
| Mister_Magister | so you can bypass 2fa with just email? | 21:47 |
| Nico[m] | With most services, yes | 21:47 |
| Mister_Magister | whats the point | 21:47 |
| Nico[m] | It is ridiculous | 21:47 |
| Mister_Magister | xd | 21:47 |
| Nico[m] | No idea :D | 21:47 |
| Nico[m] | I guess email is a second factor too | 21:47 |
| Mister_Magister | entire 2fa purpose is not to get bypassed with just one form of authentication | 21:47 |
| Nico[m] | I also have most of my 2fa recovery codes in my password manager | 21:47 |
| Nico[m] | And github and such can be reset with your ssh key | 21:48 |
| Mister_Magister | i need to make some app/script/port something to backup my phones | 21:48 |
| Nico[m] | You don't use the Sailfish backup? | 21:48 |
| Mister_Magister | it sucks balls lol | 21:48 |
| Mister_Magister | it doesn't backup anything useful | 21:49 |
| Nico[m] | I mean, you can add other apps to it now, if you install the openrepos extension | 21:49 |
| Mister_Magister | i want full backup | 21:49 |
| Mister_Magister | full / backup | 21:49 |
| Mister_Magister | everything | 21:49 |
| Nico[m] | Yeah, I guess that it won't do | 21:49 |
| Mister_Magister | too tired of going to twrp and backing up to pendrive | 21:49 |
| Nico[m] | I have my NAS ssh into all my stuff at night and pull backups of /home :3 | 21:49 |
| Mister_Magister | i just want to have nice daily incrementing backups | 21:49 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: thats one way of doing it but not too efficient | 21:50 |
| Nico[m] | Eh, it is simple and works | 21:50 |
| Nico[m] | And it does incremental and deduplicated backups | 21:50 |
| Mister_Magister | tbh i wanted to get rasberrypi 0 w, make it so that it connects in slave mode and act like mass storage while in fact mounting storage over nfs | 21:50 |
| Mister_Magister | from server | 21:50 |
| Mister_Magister | and use it in twrp | 21:51 |
| Mister_Magister | my server is already offsite backuped | 21:51 |
| mal | how about that My Backup app in openrepos? | 21:51 |
| Mister_Magister | hello mal | 21:51 |
| Mister_Magister | Allows to add arbitrary files and dconf keys to Sailfish OS backups | 21:52 |
| Mister_Magister | thats still not full / backup | 21:52 |
| Nico[m] | Sounds complicated | 21:52 |
| Nico[m] | mal: It only backups some stuff, not full /home | 21:52 |
| Nico[m] | It is okay enough for daily backups | 21:52 |
| Mister_Magister | Malinux: forget about any of the apps you want lol maybe except the dictionary one | 21:57 |
| Malinux | lol | 21:57 |
| Malinux | xD | 21:58 |
| *** nyov is now known as Guest64545 | 22:02 | |
| Mister_Magister | mal: why the heck 4.0 doesn't have multilib on aarch64 | 22:02 |
| Mister_Magister | that sounds like very unreasonable decision | 22:02 |
| mal | not sure why it was decided like that | 22:03 |
| Mister_Magister | whoa even mal doesn't know | 22:03 |
| Mister_Magister | then there really needs to be some sophisticated reason or just laziness | 22:04 |
| Malinux | what is multilib again? | 22:04 |
| Mister_Magister | so that you can use armv7hl apps on aarch64 | 22:04 |
| Malinux | ah, oh, so it means the 10 II can't run armv7hl apps? | 22:05 |
| Mister_Magister | nope | 22:05 |
| Malinux | wops | 22:05 |
| Malinux | my siginificant other, bought an 10 II | 22:05 |
| Mister_Magister | i've wasted entire weekend building all my apps on aarch64 just cause one guy got xperia 10 II | 22:05 |
| Mister_Magister | also | 22:06 |
| Mister_Magister | its broken | 22:06 |
| Mister_Magister | my app is not launching from app grid and when launched from console it sometimes crashes | 22:06 |
| Nico[m] | Eh, multilib always leads to a legacy mess | 22:06 |
| Mister_Magister | never hapened on armv7hl and any previous sfos versions | 22:06 |
| Mister_Magister | i blame jolla | 22:06 |
| Nico[m] | Apps already get compiled for 2 arches, a third one is not that bad | 22:06 |
| mal | Mister_Magister: more like I haven't cared enough to ask | 22:07 |
| Mister_Magister | mal: sure :P | 22:07 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: but they actually work on those two arches | 22:07 |
| Mister_Magister | which is not the case in aarch64 | 22:07 |
| mal | Mister_Magister: how does it crash? | 22:08 |
| Mister_Magister | segfault | 22:08 |
| Nico[m] | I mean, my apps are also buggy on aarch64, but that is a 64bit vs 32bit issue, I think | 22:08 |
| Mister_Magister | from playing vide | 22:08 |
| mal | anything useful in gdb output? | 22:08 |
| Mister_Magister | i don't have xperia 10 II | 22:08 |
| mal | can you point me to some rpm for those or sources | 22:08 |
| Mister_Magister | if i had i would've debugged it already | 22:08 |
| Mister_Magister | https://github.com/Michal-Szczepaniak/microtube | 22:09 |
| Mister_Magister | https://pomf.lain.la/f/53755g0.rpm heres rpm | 22:09 |
| Mister_Magister | required nodejs is on openrepos https://openrepos.net/content/mistermagister/nodejs12 | 22:11 |
| Mister_Magister | been building this son of a gun for 2 days now | 22:11 |
| mal | Mister_Magister: a suggestion, please use python3 | 22:13 |
| Nico[m] | uff | 22:13 |
| Mister_Magister | one day was bulding nodejs14 | 22:13 |
| Mister_Magister | that didn't go well | 22:14 |
| Mister_Magister | so excuse me while i don't | 22:14 |
| ol | juhaj (IRC): Don't believe stupid advises to carry a separate phone for Android apps. Sailfish has good support for Android 10 API on newer phones, and Google Play Services work well. You just need to do some manual tweaking for that. | 22:17 |
| Mister_Magister | >stupid advises | 22:17 |
| Mister_Magister | lol ok | 22:17 |
| juhaj | ol: I'm all ears :) | 22:17 |
| juhaj | ol: Maybe elaborate a little on the "manual tweaking" part of it? | 22:17 |
| Mister_Magister | imagine not having at least 3 daily drivers | 22:19 |
| juhaj | ol: Generally, I'm happy to tweak, tinker, and hack, but wouldn't be happy to spend money on a phone that can run SailFish if SailFish then does not deliver. In that case I'll probably go with the dual phone option and keep the AquaFish as the main phone until it dies | 22:19 |
| ol | 1. You need *supported* phone that runs Alien Dalvik in a container. The list is not a big, but it's not empty: Sony Xperia XA2, Sony Xperia 10, Sony Xperia 10 II. | 22:19 |
| juhaj | ol: Given that Xperias are basically the only phones anyway, that does not seem a problem | 22:20 |
| juhaj | +supported | 22:20 |
| ol | 2. You need official *paid* Sailfish OS on this device. This allows you ti install Alien Dalvik (called Android support in Jolla Store). | 22:20 |
| Mister_Magister | >xperia being only phones | 22:21 |
| Mister_Magister | how disrespectful | 22:21 |
| juhaj | That is not an issue either - I don't know if my Tablet-cancellation-SailFishX voucher is still valid, but even buying is fine | 22:21 |
| ol | 3. You have to take "/opt/alien/system.img" and change its content. This is squashfs image. | 22:21 |
| Nico[m] | Voucher should be fine, I used my second one a few months ago, iirc | 22:22 |
| ol | If you have Sailfish OS 4.1, this works with minor tweaks: https://together.jolla.com/question/205890/howto-install-google-play-services-on-baseport-8-devices-from-the-phone-itself-tested-working/ | 22:22 |
| juhaj | Mister_Magister: Well, I said "basically" and Jolla's compatibility list contains precisely one device that is not an Xperia. | 22:23 |
| juhaj | Nico[m]: There is another condition, too: I need to FIND my voucher :) | 22:24 |
| juhaj | ol: If I read correctly, that's still opengapps, not real google stuff. That's fine, provided they're feature-full. Are they? | 22:25 |
| Nico[m] | juhaj: Isn't it attached to your SFOS account? | 22:25 |
| Mister_Magister | juhaj: there are unofficial ports too and people are working hard on them… | 22:27 |
| Mister_Magister | thats just mean | 22:27 |
| juhaj | Nico[m]: Could well be, I haven't looked at it | 22:27 |
| ol | Minor tweaks I used: | 22:28 |
| ol | 1. Download ARM64, 10.0, pico version from https://opengapps.org/ | 22:28 |
| ol | 2. Do everuthing on a computer, not phone itself: scp "/opt/alien/system.img" to your computer, place it as "system.img.orig". | 22:28 |
| ol | 3. "setupwizardtablet-all.tar.lz" doesn't exist anymore, change it to "setupwizardtablet-arm64.tar.lz". | 22:28 |
| ol | juhaj (IRC): AFAIK, OpenGAPPS is just repackaged version of Google Play Services. | 22:29 |
| juhaj | ol: According to your link, it's not full-featured: downloads using Play Store don't work. That's a major handicap. On AquaFish they work fine provided you have kept the factory-installed version of Play Store (due to google's stupid limitations on new versions) | 22:30 |
| ol | juhaj (IRC): Don't worry about downloads using Google Play Store. You can download everything from Aurora Store (actually, even some apps like Revolut, that are marked as not supporting your phone in Google Play Store, but still work if you manage to install them). | 22:32 |
| ol | And Aurora Store is available in F-Droid store. | 22:32 |
| ol | So, I use a very simple rule: (a) install an app you need using F-Droid if it's available there; (b) for everything else, there is Aurora Store. | 22:33 |
| juhaj | ol: So Aurora Store does not suffer from what Aptoide does: sometimes it takes weeks for the apps to appear there | 22:34 |
| ol | It works well for me. Just don't forget to check for updates manually on the regular basis: you have no automatic notifications from Aurora Store. | 22:36 |
| juhaj | That's ok, I don't like automatic updates anyway. Have them all off. | 22:38 |
| ol | I have only two Android apps that don't work in Alien Dalvik. Both are banking apps. One of them requires something called Secure Element or Strongbox (seems to be some security enclave support) because it wants to work as a cryptocurrency wallet. Another one just craches few seconds after start, but this particular bank has fully-featured web interface, so it's not a problem for me. | 22:40 |
| ol | Also, sometimes it happens that some app stops working. It was happening twice already, also two banking apps, but different ones. | 22:41 |
| ol | First, Revolut started refusing to start after update, complaining that my phone is rooted. Downgrading an app worked (Aurora Store allows to specify particular version to install). After a shitstorm in Revolut support forum couple of updates later they reverted this ill-fated "security measure", so I can use newest Revolut app again. | 22:43 |
| ol | Second, another banking app started crashing after update, but two updates later this problem was fixed as well. | 22:44 |
| ol | In the meantime, downgrade helped as well. | 22:44 |
| juhaj | ol: in-app payments? | 22:47 |
| ol | juhaj (IRC): The only apps I use that have built-in payments are banking apps. Payments work in those of these apps that work at all. :-) | 22:49 |
| Malinux | Aurora is just a front end for the play store afik | 22:49 |
| juhaj | ol: I'm not sure I understand how your second sentence relates to my question... Or maybe it doesn't? | 22:50 |
| ol | Malinux (IRC): You can call it a frontend, but for me it's more like a proxy. | 22:50 |
| ol | juhaj (IRC): In-app payments work in apps that I use. It just happens that all of them are banking apps. | 22:51 |
| juhaj | ol: Do banking apps pay through Play though? I would have thought banking apps manage payments through the bank. | 22:55 |
| ol | juhaj (IRC): N26, for example, allows to top-up your account using Google Pay. | 22:57 |
| juhaj | ol: Also, is https://together.jolla.com/question/209300/how-to-microg-in-sfos-31/ still more-or-less valid? If so, I'll go the dual-phone route as it seems there's too much hacking needed compared to AquaFish. It's really strange why the experience is extremely smooth on AquaFish but seems to be quite painful elsewhere. | 22:57 |
| juhaj | ol: I thought Google Pay is totally separate from in-app payments. At least I can do in-app payments on aquafish but don't have Google Pay installed | 22:58 |
| ol | juhaj (IRC): I tried to install MicroG, but it didn't work well. I don't remember exactly what was wrong. Probably, some of my apps didn't like it. | 22:59 |
| ol | I have no idea how apps use Google Pay and whether they need support from Google Play Services. I presume, that it's not needed: there are many web sites that allow to pay using Google Pay, but I doubt that their servers run on Android phones. :-) | 23:02 |
| juhaj | ol: Google Pay and in-app purchases have nothing to do with each other | 23:03 |
| ol | Actually, there were some other apps than banking ones that allowed me to pay using my credit card. | 23:03 |
| ol | For me. Google Pay is just another way to pay for something without entering credit card number. Like Paypal, but using Google account, not Paypal one. | 23:06 |
| ol | And it's very important to remember, that the steps to install Google Play Services in "/opt/alien/system.img" squashfs image is not just one-time step you do once and forget about. You have to check whether this image changed after every system update, and re-install Google Play Services if it was. | 23:13 |
| ol | Once, I was biten by this. Suddenly I realised that some of Android apps started crashing, and it took some time for me to realise that this is because I've updated Sailfish OS, but didn't re-install Google Play Services. | 23:13 |
| Malinux | ol: ah, okey, a proxy then :) though, I coudn't come up with a better name atm :) | 23:26 |
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