| *** zbenjamin is now known as Guest28542 | 02:28 | |
| *** zbenjamin_ is now known as zbenjamin | 02:28 | |
| *** frinring_ is now known as frinring | 03:37 | |
| afotos | Hi, Is there any new phone I can install SailfishOS? I was thinking I have to pay 50€ for the OS, so it's not free. Why don't the developert write some driver for more popular phones? | 14:50 |
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| Nico[m] | Because that takes time and 50€ is just enough to pay for a few devices, not all of them and even then you would take the one that are somewhat easy to support with reasonable effort. | 14:52 |
| afotos | I disagree. It's about the price of a Windows OS and look how many PCs and notebooks are. | 14:55 |
| ggabriel | afotos: Sailfish X has a free version, if you wish to try it on supported devices; otherwise you can install Sailfish OS on any freely ported devices by the community, although some have some caveats | 14:56 |
| afotos | I have to invest a phone and the os to see just how it works. If I don't like it I can throw it out from a window. | 14:56 |
| afotos | I saw free as trial | 14:56 |
| afotos | What does mean trial? | 14:57 |
| Nico[m] | <afotos "I disagree. It's about the price"> Yes, look how many licenses of Windows were sold, then multiply that by the price of Windows. That is a lot of money. Now think about how many Sailfish licenses were probably sold, that is probably less by the factor of a million or so. So at least a million less supported devices, especially since you still need to develop the OS and it is much harder to port to a new phone | 14:57 |
| Nico[m] | compared to a new laptop with standardized hardware. | 14:57 |
| ggabriel | afotos: no, you can have it for free, it just won't have prediction or android | 14:58 |
| ggabriel | if you then choose to pay 50€ for it, you get prediction and android | 14:58 |
| ggabriel | it's very simple, really, it's all explained in the website | 14:59 |
| Nico[m] | Yep, just if you want to have addons like exchange support, android and the default predictive typing engine, you need to buy a license | 14:59 |
| ggabriel | oh, thanks Nico[m] - exchange as well as android and prediction | 14:59 |
| Nico[m] | And that only works on the officially supported devices | 14:59 |
| ggabriel | well, the community ports are always free :D | 14:59 |
| Nico[m] | <ggabriel "well, the community ports are al"> That's one way to word it ;p | 15:00 |
| ggabriel | ofc they aren't free as in "free beer", but they incur zero monetary cost. Then it's up to the individual to reflect on the amount of hours invested to get such product | 15:02 |
| afotos | https://shop.jolla.com/ here I can see get free trial. I don't know what trial means, and which devices are supported. | 15:02 |
| Nico[m] | ggabriel: I was poking fun at that, because you could consider them lacking stuff like android support as them being free, but it also is kinda just that there is no way to pay for that, as it is unsupported :D | 15:03 |
| ggabriel | afotos: "suppored devices" are in the columns: xpexia X, XA2, 10 and gemini PDA (admittedly it could be explained better) | 15:04 |
| afotos | Is jolla making business by selling it to China and Russia or they want to make money from average customers from all around the world? | 15:04 |
| ggabriel | afotos: I guess you would need to become an investor to find that out - jolla is a private company, FWIW | 15:04 |
| ggabriel | Nico[m]: yeah, got that, hence the "free as in free beer" - I love that phrase | 15:05 |
| Nico[m] | They mostly try to sell it to businesses and consumers. One of their larger customers is in Russia. Apart from that we don't have much information :3 | 15:05 |
| afotos | ggabriel: You are talking about supported devices and paid OS. I'm askig which devices are supported for the free or trial OS. | 15:05 |
| Nico[m] | ggabriel: :D | 15:05 |
| ggabriel | afotos: in all those devices that I mentioned, the free licence should work. But you could ask this to jolla, too | 15:06 |
| afotos | I thought there are some people here from Jolla | 15:06 |
| ggabriel | I mean through an official channel, so you have it in writing | 15:06 |
| ggabriel | what device are you planning to get? | 15:06 |
| afotos | If I choose SailfishOS I'd pick a used Xperia 10. I'm thining on Ubuntu Touch as well. | 15:08 |
| ggabriel | so, you should be able to use a free licence there and then buy one if you wish android/predictive/exchange, as we explained | 15:08 |
| ggabriel | and you would get android 8 runtime | 15:09 |
| afotos | As I read with SailfishOS 4 Android 9 is supported | 15:09 |
| ggabriel | no, you can flash sfos 4 over devices with android 8 or 9, but the runtime supported on xa2 and 10 is 8; on x is 4 | 15:10 |
| ggabriel | but do not buy an xperia 10 with android 10, or you would need to downgrade it to flash sfos | 15:10 |
| afotos | ggabriel: I know about the downgrade from Android 10 | 15:11 |
| afotos | Android App Support in Sailfish 4 has reached Android 9 level. Android apps now support richer notifications, handle audio and video calls better and can access content from SD cards and detect WLAN connections. | 15:11 |
| afotos | Maybe I missunderstood this | 15:12 |
| ggabriel | I dont know what level 9 in that context is | 15:12 |
| ggabriel | but the runtime is 8.1, like that table says | 15:12 |
| ggabriel | there's a little app that tells you what it is, maybe somebody can run it for you (I don't have it) | 15:13 |
| ggabriel | regardless, most modern "apps" should run in 8, 9 and 10 | 15:13 |
| ggabriel | runtime 4 is a bit more restricted (e.g., lyft won't work) | 15:13 |
| afotos | The 8.1 Android support was on their website a month ago when SailfisOS wasn't released. So they didn't update their website yet. | 15:13 |
| afotos | I meant SailfishOS version 4 | 15:14 |
| ggabriel | afotos: sadly, it's confusing: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/koli-providing-support-to-android-9-can-we-update-sony-xa2-vendor-version/4990/7 | 15:16 |
| ggabriel | I _think_ they mean that you can now flash sfos over android 9, as opposed to aliendalvik being able to run android 9 apps | 15:17 |
| ggabriel | but feel free to search/ask in the forums | 15:17 |
| ggabriel | I personally tend to not use android, so I can't care less :) | 15:17 |
| afotos | The only app is very important to me is the online navigation like google maps or Waze. I use it daily and I need it with accurate house numbers. | 15:19 |
| ggabriel | ah, I use pure maps in combination with osm scout maps - which is dramatically better than anything that google can tell you | 15:20 |
| ggabriel | ofc some people use those, and they ought to be compatible even with the old android runtimes | 15:20 |
| ggabriel | mind you - for those "apps" you probably need google play, which involves a little bit of hacking. I would search around in the forums for instructions | 15:21 |
| afotos | I'll give a try for the free version | 15:24 |
| afotos | Thank you | 15:24 |
| ggabriel | good luck | 15:24 |
| Thaodan | ggabriel: ad now can run Android 9 apps | 16:07 |
| ggabriel | Thaodan: thanks for clarifying | 16:08 |
| Thaodan | See here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/release-notes-koli-4-0-1/4542#android-app-support | 16:18 |
| ggabriel | Thaodan: yeah, kind of confusing when you can flash with android 8 on the phone and that table on the store still says android 8 :) | 16:20 |
| Thaodan | well AD is completely separated and the issue that Android newer that Android 9 caused issues was a side effect that was caused by a firmware update that came with android 9. | 16:23 |
| nephros_ | Hi, dev docs say to come in here after creating a PR and prod a dev. Well I did this thing: https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-utilities/pull/54 Is this of any interest? | 18:29 |
| ggabriel | maybe try proding tomorrow that it isn't sunday :) | 18:31 |
| nephros_ | ggabriel: hmm, you might have a point there! :) | 18:39 |
| Thaodan | nephros_: Don't use bashism in /bin/sh | 18:45 |
| Thaodan | I wonder why the dbus interface of systemd isn't used vs. calling a shell script | 18:48 |
| nephros_ | Thaodan: I try not to do bashisms, if there is one in restart_bluetooth.sh it's in the other scripts as well. And I don't think "foo && bar" is a bashism or is it. | 18:50 |
| Thaodan | function is bashism | 18:50 |
| nephros_ | ok, but the script is a straight bopy of all the others. I can clean up mine *and* the others if that's helpful. | 18:51 |
| nephros_ | s/bopy/copy/ | 18:52 |
| Thaodan | Create two pr for that then. In any case that is no excuse and still an issue. I can recommend to use shellcheck or checkbasisms (I suggest the first one). | 18:52 |
| Thaodan | But as I said I'd prefer to use dbus directly instead of calling shell scripts. | 18:52 |
| nephros_ | Fine, I'll do a posixify cleanup PR. | 18:55 |
| ggabriel | poor bash, people keep bashing erm bash | 18:59 |
| nephros_ | de-bashism PR created. | 20:22 |
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