| *** zbenjamin is now known as Guest64582 | 02:37 | |
| *** zbenjamin_ is now known as zbenjamin | 02:37 | |
| *** feodoran is now known as Guest58675 | 04:03 | |
| *** feodoran_ is now known as feodoran | 04:03 | |
| tortoisedoc | ol: any fix for this known issue?= | 06:18 |
|---|---|---|
| ViGe | Keij0: It seems the installer has trouble determining your virtualbox version. Which linux distribution are you using? | 06:32 |
| keithzg[m] | Wait, last time around with SailfishX, the line was that selling the OS for a phone in world markets would somehow have some sort of legal repercussions (which is nonsense at least in Canada, but okay, whatever), which is why the tablet was available elsewhere but SailfishX wasn't. But now I . . . can't even buy it for my wifi-only Gemini? Ze fuck? | 08:50 |
| keithzg[m] | I mean at least I can just boot my Gemini into Android when I want to, so I guess I can just stick with the Community Edition, but geez, talk about shutupandtakemymoney.gif | 08:50 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: the repercussions are the USA and the FCC | 08:55 |
| Helle | because radios | 08:55 |
| keithzg[m] | Helle: Yeah not sure why that affects Canada, you Europeans have some very weird ideas about how things work on the other side of the Atlantic ;) | 08:55 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: I think there are some problems stemming from NAFTA related to this | 08:56 |
| keithzg[m] | Uhhh | 08:56 |
| Helle | but it may also be that dealing with a few customers in north america, if you can't profit off of the USA is not worth it | 08:56 |
| keithzg[m] | Are you just frantically googling things to do with the U.S. and Canada now? There's no way that'd affect anything. | 08:56 |
| keithzg[m] | I mean hell, under Canadian law sales of SailfishX would be considered to happen in Europe and Canadian law wouldn't even actually apply. | 08:57 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: nah, I just know that relatively unfettered trade can lead to all sorts of problems | 08:57 |
| Helle | Also wondering how Canada handles a frequency plan mismatch ? | 08:57 |
| Helle | Like, I know that in Canada like in Europe, the blame on using a wrong frequency is with the user, but the device manufacturer has to make it clear what the intended use is | 08:58 |
| Helle | (so it doesn't need to be locked down as under FCC rules) | 08:58 |
| Helle | but in general, blame the FCC | 08:59 |
| keithzg[m] | Which certainly hasn't stopped Planet Computers from officially shipping this hardware to me, or in fact providing an official installer for SailfishOS! | 08:59 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: there are a lot of legal hassles | 09:00 |
| keithzg[m] | The only thing is that I'm not allowed to pay Jolla for it, which is ridiculous. (Which would provide lackluster Android support, so it's not like I'm really missing anything, I just find the whole situation baffling.) | 09:00 |
| Helle | and some of them can be ignored, including by shipping it seperately or not selling it, just providing it | 09:00 |
| keithzg[m] | Point to any actual law and maybe I'll finally believe that BS :P | 09:00 |
| keithzg[m] | Again though, whatever hurdles there mysteriously appear to be, sure didn't stop Planet Computers. | 09:01 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: they didn't ship it with SailfishOS | 09:01 |
| Helle | they shipped it with Android | 09:01 |
| Helle | the software is considered part of the radio stack .... | 09:01 |
| keithzg[m] | Helle: Whoa, wait, you're saying I can buy a Gemini from Jolla with SailfishX installed?!?! | 09:02 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: no, I am saying that they sell it | 09:02 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: read difference, sell vs provide | 09:02 |
| keithzg[m] | And the sale happens in Europe; nothing happens under Canadian law. | 09:02 |
| Helle | I wonder if they could just sell the Android support, otoh, I know their licensing agreement on that Android support means it has to come with the OS | 09:03 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: so just buy it with a EU credit card to a EU address ? :P | 09:03 |
| keithzg[m] | (Big consternation about that these days in Canada, since it's how companies like Google get away with avoiding paying the Canadian government sales taxes on software and other digital media purchases) | 09:03 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: it may actually be a EU thing that the sale isn't seen as entirely under local laws | 09:04 |
| keithzg[m] | Helle: I mean frankly I did that for SailfishX for an Xperia, but really I just want someone to finally admit that it's because the payment processor doesn't want to sell outside of the EU for some reason. | 09:05 |
| Helle | Like, if I buy something in Poland, they have to pay Dutch VAT on it | 09:05 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: I wonder if that is what it is | 09:05 |
| keithzg[m] | That, or to get whomever at Jolla has really dumb ideas about Canadian laws to actually look at it for a second :P | 09:05 |
| Helle | I do know that one I used charged 4x as much for non-EU payments due to different contracts | 09:05 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: nah, they probably work on the basis that if it is not approved (EU), it can't be determined if they can sell it (overhead) | 09:06 |
| keithzg[m] | Helle: Again that is obviously not it since they previously *sold me a tablet* :P | 09:06 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: yes, in a different setting, each device has to be looked at individually | 09:07 |
| Helle | it's one of those nasty consequences of radio regs | 09:07 |
| keithzg[m] | But they aren't even selling a device, just software. | 09:07 |
| keithzg[m] | And again, none of the radio stuff matters since I already have the device. | 09:07 |
| Helle | and for example the FCC would be after their hides if they did that | 09:07 |
| Helle | so would you risk it as a company ? | 09:08 |
| keithzg[m] | Ehhhhhhh no they wouldn't be, not really, but anyways. | 09:08 |
| Helle | anyway, there can be various reasons | 09:08 |
| keithzg[m] | And it isn't even capable of cellular communication, which is where the actual concerns might start to be valid. | 09:08 |
| Helle | wifi is already a mess with them | 09:08 |
| keithzg[m] | Yeah, I just want someone to actually admit what the reason is | 09:08 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: then ask Jolla up front | 09:08 |
| keithzg[m] | Not just spew BS | 09:08 |
| keithzg[m] | I have many times! | 09:08 |
| keithzg[m] | Never gotten a response. | 09:09 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: I am just stating the reasons I have seen for other companies including ones I've worked with to not sell products (including software) in certain regions | 09:09 |
| keithzg[m] | Helle: Yeah, and I know enough about Canadian law to know that those vague reasons never applied to SailfishX for the Xperia, and they even more don't apply in this case. | 09:10 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: yes, but does Jolla have the lawyers to seperate that particular case out ? | 09:10 |
| keithzg[m] | C'mon, man. C'mon. | 09:10 |
| Helle | as said, the FCC will flay you if you did that same thing, wouldn't you err on caution for a tiny market like Canada | 09:10 |
| keithzg[m] | Clearly under your theory then they had some lawyers go over that stuff for the tablet, then, of which this would just be a subset. | 09:11 |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: except different hardware, different software, different sales method | 09:11 |
| * Helle note for herself to sell stuff to Canada and not the USA | 09:11 | |
| Helle | well, no, to sell stuff to a subsidiary that can then sell it to Canada, let's add some safety there :P | 09:12 |
| * keithzg[m] shakes his head at this weird stubbornness | 09:12 | |
| Helle | keithzg[m]: but it may just very well be that the payment processor is the reason, or worse, the payment processor has restrictions on what can be sold where via them (have that one happen before) | 09:13 |
| keithzg[m] | Helle: Yeah I'm quite certain that's the actual issue. I just wish they'd actually say it! | 09:14 |
| keithzg[m] | ...this is all getting me quite off track though, I was just jumping back into the channel in prep for finally reinstalling the SailfishOS SDK, haha, and now I notice I've somehow misplaced my Gemini PDA, whoops | 09:19 |
| keithzg[m] | Huh. Really can't find it. Hopefully I just absent-mindedly left it at work. Luckily I have two other SailfishOS devices to play around with instead, heh. | 09:27 |
| keithzg[m] | So, completely different track: why does `pkcon update` figure that there's no updates available, but `zypper update` goes "oh hey, yeah, there's totally some updates available"? | 09:31 |
| * keithzg[m] remembers this pretty much always being the case, but figures there must be some reason he just doesn't understand since he comes from Debian land rather than RPM land | 09:32 | |
| ol | keithzg[m] (IRC), Helle (IRC): Another reason to avoid non-EU markets can be software patents. | 15:09 |
| *** alistair235[m] is now known as alistair23[m] | 19:26 | |
| keithzg[m] | ol: As previously stated, online sales are considered by Canada to have happened in whatever country the selling party is located, so that also would have zero legal effects (this is why for instance I don't have to pay sales tax on apps that I buy from Google, or albums from Bandcamp, etc). And any compliance onus is on me as the "importer" to comply and pay and etc myself (which in practice means nobody declares such | 19:35 |
| keithzg[m] | stuff to the government, but literally the government is scared about what the response would be if peoples' Netflix subscriptions went up, so they're not gonna touch this!). | 19:35 |
| keithzg[m] | ol: That being said, in a *general* sense, yeah you're not wrong, software patents are a problem! One of the big issues with all the "free trade" deals of the past decade or so is that terms "harmonizing" patent laws across countries always seem to sneak in . . . | 19:39 |
| keithzg[m] | (And copyright, of course) | 19:40 |
| Mister_Magister | any idea how can i get device codename, vendor and sailfish version in my sailfishos app? | 20:46 |
| mal | Mister_Magister: some of those you get from DeviceInfo qml item https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/nemo-qml-plugin-systemsettings/blob/master/src/deviceinfo.h | 21:07 |
| Mister_Magister | mal: thanks! | 21:07 |
| mal | Mister_Magister: check also AboutSettings in there, not sure how easily those can be used | 21:10 |
| Mister_Magister | thanks | 21:10 |
| r0kk3rz | https://www.xda-developers.com/fxtec-pro-1-initial-review/amp/?__twitter_impression=true | 21:45 |
| r0kk3rz | gogo chenphone | 21:45 |
| Mister_Magister | r0kk3rz: https://twitter.com/thefxtec/status/1100854247380398087 | 21:47 |
| Mister_Magister | mal: should contact them | 21:47 |
| r0kk3rz | TheKit did a port for chen in the past, and has a slight addiction for keyboard devices ;) | 21:49 |
| Mister_Magister | hue | 21:49 |
| Mister_Magister | i wrote to them lel | 21:49 |
| TheKit | I'm surely in for this | 21:51 |
| Mister_Magister | TheKit: count me in | 21:51 |
| Mister_Magister | VerdandiTeam surely would do it | 21:51 |
| mal | r0kk3rz: complaining about the chipset in that is so ridiculous, all of those are fast enough for almost all uses, of course android needs quite much cpu and memory | 22:00 |
| r0kk3rz | mal: ikr, but thats all reviewers can say these days because all phows are the same | 22:02 |
| r0kk3rz | onoz chipset is a year old?! meh, who cares the device is clearly all about the keyboard | 22:03 |
| TheKit | agree about that, besides it is from high tier and probably would be still faster then modern middle-range | 22:08 |
| mal | r0kk3rz: yep, most likely people buying that won't be looking at chipset as the primary criteria or camera or stuff like that | 22:10 |
| keithzg[m] | A sliding landscape smartphone in this dystopian modern era? Pinch me, I must be dreaming! | 22:14 |
| keithzg[m] | Those curved edges on the display look made for SailfishOS, too. | 22:18 |
| keithzg[m] | Wait, and it's an AMOLED screen and actually supports WCDMA band 4 and LTE band 66? Whoa. Certainly all the specs I care about, this F(x)tec PRO¹ is knocking it out of the park. | 22:24 |
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