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| blap | Poettering is incorporating social media support into systemd | 00:17 |
|---|---|---|
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| tadzik | I read "poettering" as an adjective, heh | 00:28 |
| tadzik | also, seriously? | 00:28 |
| blap | :) | 00:32 |
| blap | no is joke, but systemd is such cancer, you had to wonder if it was real | 00:32 |
| blap | @ tadzik | 00:32 |
| tadzik | hah | 00:33 |
| tadzik | I wouldn't be too surprised at this point | 00:33 |
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| blap | "Bringing linux into the cloud: journald to deprecate local logging and switch to twitter posts." | 01:45 |
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| spiiroin | _sven is gone but: n9 had oled display with actual low power mode supported by hw; while the some of the lpm logic is inherited, it triggers - not lpm but -"lpm" (aka "glance mode" aka "sneak peek") -> lcds need backlight & wont have completely black display | 06:19 |
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| spiiroin | also even if there would be display with actual lpm, the "infrastructure" for that does not exist (it would need to go through compositor i.e. mce<->compositor ipc changes & new code at both ends) | 06:21 |
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| * blap sings the Ren and Stimpy "Log" song... "It's SystemD, it's SystemD! It's big, it's heavy, it's wood! It's SystemD, it's Systemd, it's better than bad, it's Good!" | 07:18 | |
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| nthn | I've found that 99% of people who take issue with systemd don't actually understand what it is, what it does, or the awful and outdated state of the things it deprecates | 07:30 |
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| blap | I've found that 99% of people who vociverously defend systemd don't actually understand what it is, what it does wrong, or the reliable, simple state of the things it corrupts | 07:35 |
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| r0kk3rz | ive got other things to do than worry too much about what init system i use :P | 08:53 |
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| blap | me too | 09:40 |
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| blap | tango_: you there? | 09:49 |
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| tango_ | blap: yup | 10:22 |
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| blap | cousin dropped off package, insured for 500euro | 10:26 |
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| tango_ | blap: excellent, thanks | 10:45 |
| nh1402[m] | "Sailfish 3 will be rolled out in phases during Q3/2018 for all licensees and customers." | 10:45 |
| nh1402[m] | interesting | 10:45 |
| nh1402[m] | https://jolla.com/sailfish3/ | 10:45 |
| r0kk3rz | is that a gpd pocket thing | 10:46 |
| r0kk3rz | oooh new qt | 10:47 |
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| tango_ | I don't suppose there's any chance of it running on the first one, is there | 10:48 |
| r0kk3rz | running what? | 10:48 |
| tango_ | sailfish3 | 10:49 |
| r0kk3rz | i dont see why not | 10:49 |
| tango_ | what's the landscape phone in the image? | 10:49 |
| nh1402[m] | https://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/MWC2018_press_release_FINAL.pdf?x39789 | 10:49 |
| r0kk3rz | but you wont get a lot of those goodies | 10:49 |
| tango_ | the one with the qwerty kbd | 10:49 |
| r0kk3rz | like fingerprint, or ble, or updated dalvik | 10:49 |
| nh1402[m] | https://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Partner_press_release_Planet_Computers.pdf?x39789 | 10:50 |
| nh1402[m] | Gemini PDA to run Sailfish mobile operating system | 10:50 |
| nh1402[m] | "feature" phone support | 10:50 |
| tango_ | r0kk3rz: updated dalvik was the one I was interested in | 10:50 |
| tango_ | are the hw requirements that prevent it? | 10:50 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah that seems unlikely | 10:50 |
| r0kk3rz | but maybe | 10:50 |
| tadzik | oh boy | 10:50 |
| tadzik | I can't wait for 2020 | 10:50 |
| r0kk3rz | tango_: kernel version mainly | 10:51 |
| tadzik | *hides* | 10:51 |
| nh1402[m] | tango_: Gemini PDA is the landscape device | 10:51 |
| tango_ | nh1402[m]: thanks | 10:51 |
| tango_ | r0kk3rz: i.e. binary blobs for the hardware not being supported in newer kernels? | 10:51 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah basically | 10:52 |
| nh1402[m] | "30% faster performance" | 10:52 |
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| locusf | hmm | 10:55 |
| locusf | wonder if its mesa or libhybris | 10:55 |
| tadzik | or libmarketing | 10:56 |
| r0kk3rz | did the gpd pocket thing come with android? | 10:56 |
| r0kk3rz | ah so it did | 10:58 |
| r0kk3rz | locusf: id expect hybris tbh, because of dalvik support | 10:58 |
| locusf | oh | 10:58 |
| r0kk3rz | although, its missing from the pictures so maybe not | 10:59 |
| nh1402[m] | probably too early in the porting process for it | 11:00 |
| r0kk3rz | or they didnt want to license it | 11:01 |
| nh1402[m] | so is that "feature" phone support mean they're working with Nokia? | 11:02 |
| nh1402[m] | does* | 11:02 |
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| nh1402[m] | because that's the 3310 in the picture I think | 11:03 |
| r0kk3rz | theres no brand on it though | 11:03 |
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| tadzik | ah, the new 3310 | 11:09 |
| tadzik | I got very confused for a moment there | 11:09 |
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| tortoisedoc | hooray! \O/ a new release of SFOS coming up :D | 11:09 |
| tortoisedoc | (in q3 2018 but still) | 11:10 |
| tadzik | yeah :) | 11:10 |
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| tortoisedoc | wonder what the changes are | 11:11 |
| tortoisedoc | ui mostly? | 11:11 |
| tortoisedoc | (like for SF 2.0) | 11:11 |
| tadzik | mostly backend work from what the post suggests | 11:11 |
| tadzik | well, the site | 11:11 |
| locusf | and waiting for another wailing and moaning about how we can | 11:12 |
| locusf | can't roll back to previous release and the new ui sucks | 11:12 |
| tortoisedoc | gotta love evolution eh :D | 11:12 |
| tadzik | well, it's just mutation unless it survives better ;) | 11:13 |
| tortoisedoc | or mutates again ? ;) | 11:13 |
| tortoisedoc | like meego -> sfos, that was a mutation too | 11:13 |
| * tortoisedoc wonders when itll grow legs | 11:14 | |
| r0kk3rz | updated multitasking interface apparently | 11:14 |
| r0kk3rz | so that could be interesting | 11:14 |
| tortoisedoc | yeah | 11:14 |
| tortoisedoc | heres to hope they push it to xperia as well | 11:15 |
| tortoisedoc | cause that's my phone currently :[ | 11:15 |
| r0kk3rz | why wouldnt they? | 11:15 |
| tortoisedoc | never say never :P | 11:15 |
| tortoisedoc | also, sfosx == sfos -> is not clear yet | 11:15 |
| tango_ | blap: btw see if you can get the tracking number, I'd appreciate it if you can send it to me via email | 11:15 |
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| r0kk3rz | tortoisedoc: wat? yes it is don't be an idiot | 11:15 |
| tortoisedoc | just nitpicking really ^^ | 11:16 |
| tortoisedoc | should upgrade my OTH to newest sfos | 11:16 |
| blap | ok same email as paypal addr? | 11:16 |
| tortoisedoc | to see if its even faster | 11:16 |
| r0kk3rz | tortoisedoc: whats an OTH? | 11:17 |
| tortoisedoc | argh ;_; | 11:17 |
| tortoisedoc | TOH | 11:17 |
| r0kk3rz | :D | 11:17 |
| tortoisedoc | gotta get myself a regex for that and then a plugin to fix it in irc :D | 11:17 |
| pketo | upgrade TOH? | 11:19 |
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| rubdos | wait 3.0 is there?! | 11:19 |
| rubdos | > New security architecture -- now now, app separated right? | 11:20 |
| * rubdos can only hope | 11:20 | |
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| nh1402[m] | someone tested polkit I think some time ago, maybe it's that | 11:24 |
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| nh1402[m] | I think it was polkit anyway | 11:24 |
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| tortoisedoc | polkit? | 11:27 |
| * tortoisedoc off to mer git repos | 11:27 | |
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| tortoisedoc | Built-in hardware keyboard support -> ones got to love that | 11:30 |
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| tortoisedoc | Sticky App Grid | 11:30 |
| present | Hi guys! | 11:30 |
| present | I want to work on a Spotify application with the latest API from Spotify. | 11:31 |
| r0kk3rz | libspotify? i think the general gist is 'dont' | 11:31 |
| present | https://beta.developer.spotify.com/ | 11:32 |
| Lieke | rubdos: there's an "app access control" menu item in the sailfish 3 video | 11:32 |
| present | I need to fight with Oauth2 now. | 11:32 |
| tortoisedoc | ok | 11:32 |
| leszek | I think we will see some of the improvements for SFOS 3 also in 2.2 like encryption support in the UI | 11:32 |
| tortoisedoc | sok | 11:32 |
| tortoisedoc | so | 11:32 |
| nh1402[m] | it was mentioned in this meeting, http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2016/mer-meeting.2016-09-05-09.00.log.html | 11:32 |
| leszek | also notifications will be different. Maybe configurable for certain apps | 11:33 |
| nh1402[m] | I say some time ago I didn't realise it was September 2016 | 11:33 |
| present | I found this library : https://github.com/pipacs/o2 But the "Client Secret" is written in the code... Do you know If I could use something like this? https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-secrets | 11:33 |
| leszek | time flies | 11:33 |
| rubdos | cool, Lieke :) | 11:33 |
| zGrr | ... time leaks. | 11:34 |
| r0kk3rz | present: yeah i dont think theres currently a good way to store client keys | 11:34 |
| r0kk3rz | a few other people have done oauth2 things though | 11:34 |
| lorde_kumamon[m] | tadzik: what's happening in 2020? | 11:35 |
| present | r0kk3rz: There isn't any official application detailing how to use Oauth2 in SailfishOS? | 11:35 |
| r0kk3rz | present: none i know of | 11:35 |
| tortoisedoc | present : Oauth2 is supported in qt 5.8 | 11:35 |
| tortoisedoc | i wonder if backporting would be a pain? | 11:35 |
| tortoisedoc | given its network traffic, it *should* be straightforward | 11:36 |
| * tortoisedoc ducks | 11:36 | |
| present | tortoisedoc: I'm not sure that will solve the client secret trouble | 11:36 |
| tortoisedoc | present : qt will solve it for you? | 11:36 |
| r0kk3rz | the client secret isnt *that* secret anyway | 11:36 |
| tortoisedoc | http://blog.qt.io/blog/2017/01/25/connecting-qt-application-google-services-using-oauth-2-0/ | 11:36 |
| tortoisedoc | ? | 11:36 |
| tortoisedoc | present : at least you wont have to use the pipacs | 11:37 |
| present | tortoisedoc: Yes Backporting the lib will be better for me when SailfishOS will go for 5.9 | 11:38 |
| tortoisedoc | :D | 11:38 |
| tortoisedoc | present : good luck for that :p | 11:39 |
| present | I thought https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-secrets was meant for solving this trouble | 11:39 |
| tortoisedoc | eh | 11:39 |
| r0kk3rz | present: thats currently not used in sailfish | 11:41 |
| tortoisedoc | oh the braveness of putting crypto and dbus in the same paragraph | 11:42 |
| tortoisedoc | 3> | 11:42 |
| tortoisedoc | eiku | 11:42 |
| tortoisedoc | <3 | 11:42 |
| tortoisedoc | there :) | 11:42 |
| present | "It is critical that developers never include their client_secret in public (mobile or browser-based) apps." | 11:42 |
| M4rtinK | sailfish-secrets looks interesting & rather actively developed, nice :) | 11:44 |
| tadzik | LordeKumamon: I was joking about release delays ;) | 11:47 |
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| beidl | really loving the outlook for Sailfish 3 | 11:52 |
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| andrewalker | I have mixed feelings about the announcement. It seems they're trying to do so much, make a major redesign without having the proper basics in place. Or maybe it's just a number and a marketing strategy, in which case I'm less concerned :) | 12:02 |
| andrewalker | I also dislike how vague they often are. Updated Android, updated Qt... Which version are they targeting? | 12:03 |
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| wdehoog | present: you left but maybe you read the logs: I once played with the lib you mentioned see https://github.com/wdehoog/playspot | 12:28 |
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| beidl | andrewalker: certainly sounds awkward without the full details, I'll give you that, but what they are talking about here are long overdue features | 12:42 |
| beidl | andrewalker: android version might be on a per-device basis, qt I'm sure they might want to target the LTS | 12:42 |
| andrewalker | fair enough | 12:43 |
| r0kk3rz | andrewalker: i wouldn't expect such details in press releases, but we'll find out later in a meeting | 12:44 |
| beidl | r0kk3rz: trying to be sneaky, eh? :P | 12:44 |
| r0kk3rz | sneaky? | 12:45 |
| beidl | nevermind | 12:45 |
| r0kk3rz | tbh im surprised they mentioned 'upgrade qt' as a marketing feature at all | 12:45 |
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| r0kk3rz | obviously they wanted to pad out the announcement of what will probably be a fairly minor change | 12:46 |
| andrewalker | r0kk3rz: that makes sense. I know they don't *have* to tell everything, especially not in a marketing feature, it's just a bit enticing to our curiosity I guess :) | 12:46 |
| r0kk3rz | 5.9 seems like a reasonable upgrade candidate | 12:46 |
| andrewalker | that would be cool | 12:47 |
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| andrewalker | I hope it really is a fairly minor change. If it gets some extra attention from people outside, I think it's all great. | 12:47 |
| r0kk3rz | i dont think it will be like the 1x-2x ui revamp | 12:48 |
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| tortoisedoc | is 5.9 lts+ | 12:49 |
| tortoisedoc | s/+/? | 12:49 |
| tortoisedoc | what Im more concerned is | 12:49 |
| r0kk3rz | it is | 12:49 |
| andrewalker | tortoisedoc: yes: https://www1.qt.io/qt5-9/ | 12:50 |
| tortoisedoc | they have a touch-less ui for feature phones | 12:50 |
| tortoisedoc | how does that relate to the exisitng apps in harbour? | 12:50 |
| tortoisedoc | what kind of adaptations are necessary? | 12:50 |
| tortoisedoc | what's the integration path? | 12:50 |
| tortoisedoc | etc | 12:50 |
| tortoisedoc | so from a developer's standpoint :) | 12:50 |
| r0kk3rz | its a feature phone, what apps? | 12:50 |
| tortoisedoc | r0kk3rz: like the android ones they claim to have running on a peature p0ne :D | 12:51 |
| r0kk3rz | i doubt there will be an app store at all | 12:51 |
| r0kk3rz | tortoisedoc: it says 'few selected' | 12:51 |
| r0kk3rz | so its not generic android compatibility | 12:51 |
| tortoisedoc | not even mentioning future apps; think about the existing ones | 12:51 |
| tortoisedoc | and "selected" means what? | 12:52 |
| r0kk3rz | chosen by jolla | 12:52 |
| beidl | r0kk3rz: well, upgrading Qt + including WebEngine support afaics is a good upgrade to pitch | 12:52 |
| tortoisedoc | r0kk3rz : nevermind | 12:52 |
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| r0kk3rz | its a feature phone, its not supposed to have general app support | 12:52 |
| beidl | just like with apps that support split screen I assume | 12:53 |
| tortoisedoc | gotta love your enthusiasm about limiting a device's capabilities :) | 12:53 |
| r0kk3rz | enthusiasm? it is what it is | 12:53 |
| beidl | one way or the other? :P | 12:54 |
| tortoisedoc | you know, nokia had feature phones which could download apps from ovi store iirc | 12:54 |
| r0kk3rz | so? | 12:54 |
| tortoisedoc | and we are talking symbian | 12:54 |
| beidl | good old days | 12:54 |
| tortoisedoc | are you implying sfos is on the same level as symbian? :P | 12:54 |
| r0kk3rz | huh? | 12:54 |
| tortoisedoc | sorry just poking you :) | 12:55 |
| r0kk3rz | im not implying anything at all :P | 12:55 |
| tortoisedoc | so i thought ;) | 12:55 |
| r0kk3rz | that was then, now in 2018 if you were making such a device, why would it have apps? | 12:56 |
| beidl | :D | 12:56 |
| r0kk3rz | we have app friendly devices already | 12:56 |
| beidl | why shouldnt it though? | 12:56 |
| tortoisedoc | exactly | 12:56 |
| tortoisedoc | thats the same ideology that doomed meego no? | 12:56 |
| tortoisedoc | "why make a new os" | 12:56 |
| r0kk3rz | wat. | 12:56 |
| beidl | I guess the intention with meego was the merger rather than the creation of a new os | 12:57 |
| blap | anything to get away from that name | 12:57 |
| beidl | also remember, those were different times, you couldn't build products on top of all those other existing things we have now | 12:59 |
| tortoisedoc | beidl : merger? | 12:59 |
| beidl | intel + nokia working together with their existing code bases | 12:59 |
| beidl | or what exactly do you mean? | 13:00 |
| tortoisedoc | ah ok source code merging; but the fact it turned into a failure sealed it's fare no? | 13:01 |
| blap | intel's goal was always to scuttle it | 13:01 |
| tortoisedoc | s/fare/fate | 13:01 |
| tortoisedoc | I mean; it wasnt meant to fail from the beginning? | 13:02 |
| beidl | tortoisedoc: mer and sfos came out of this, aint it? | 13:02 |
| tortoisedoc | yes of course :) | 13:02 |
| beidl | this wasn't a fail in any way | 13:02 |
| beidl | natural progression | 13:02 |
| tortoisedoc | yep | 13:02 |
| r0kk3rz | tortoisedoc: i really dont get what you're trying to get at | 13:02 |
| beidl | blap: yep, damn scuttlebuttling | 13:03 |
| tortoisedoc | beidl : but I mean, if the merger was the point of meego, the only one profiting from it is Intel; as Nokia Devices does not exist anymore | 13:03 |
| tortoisedoc | so from Nokia's standpoint it couldnt have been "just" a merger issue | 13:03 |
| tortoisedoc | thats what I mean :) | 13:03 |
| r0kk3rz | the mismanagement of nokia is ancient history | 13:03 |
| beidl | tortoisedoc: aren't you mixing up to different timelines? | 13:03 |
| tortoisedoc | beidl : hrm ? | 13:04 |
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| tortoisedoc | r0kk3rz : just drawing silver lininigs on similarities in history nothing else | 13:04 |
| beidl | what does the meego emergence have to do with nokia or intel now? | 13:04 |
| tortoisedoc | meego was the result of nokia and intel? | 13:05 |
| tortoisedoc | (working togethre) | 13:05 |
| tortoisedoc | *together | 13:05 |
| beidl | right | 13:05 |
| tortoisedoc | so im failing to see the incentive for nokia and intel on working together on the code base; if then they are not around to use it anymore? | 13:06 |
| r0kk3rz | perhaps they thought it was a good idea at the time | 13:06 |
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| beidl | they could though | 13:07 |
| beidl | mer in this case | 13:07 |
| tortoisedoc | ah yes | 13:07 |
| locusf | I don | 13:10 |
| locusf | I don't think there was any co-operation really | 13:10 |
| locusf | like a merger of moblin and maemo | 13:10 |
| locusf | it was rather moblin replacing maemo | 13:11 |
| beidl | locusf: let's just call that "merging efforts" for correctness sake | 13:11 |
| locusf | well I suppose no effort was still an effort :) | 13:13 |
| beidl | well, who was behind the effort and who wanted the effort to bring value though, the company or the people behind it? :) | 13:14 |
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| beidl | we weren't there when those decisions were made, we could only speculate from this point on | 13:15 |
| locusf | the company tells the people what to do though | 13:16 |
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| locusf | even though its blatantly obvious from the architecture and source code? | 13:16 |
| tortoisedoc | locusf : did moblin have qt support? | 13:16 |
| locusf | deb vs rpm in maemo | 13:17 |
| locusf | tortoisedoc: no, neither did maemo | 13:17 |
| locusf | s60 used to have it | 13:17 |
| beidl | I'm pretty sure some non-technical senior manager is not going to bring up pootential merger. :P | 13:17 |
| beidl | potential* lol | 13:17 |
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| tortoisedoc | :D | 13:17 |
| * tortoisedoc is still ducking so all is a-oik | 13:17 | |
| r0kk3rz | they might, its basically an outsourcing decision | 13:18 |
| beidl | r0kk3rz: could, yes | 13:18 |
| beidl | point is to distinguish between "surely never happened" and "could have happened" | 13:18 |
| r0kk3rz | meh, who cares :P | 13:19 |
| tortoisedoc | well they didnt just outsource in the wild or? I mean, nokia had a full team of people on the project | 13:19 |
| tortoisedoc | devil's in the details tho ;) | 13:19 |
| tortoisedoc | r0kk3rz ^ | 13:19 |
| beidl | tortoisedoc: no need to duck :P | 13:20 |
| tortoisedoc | beidl : you never know :P | 13:20 |
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| tortoisedoc | p0nez might start flying soon | 13:20 |
| beidl | hahaha true that | 13:20 |
| r0kk3rz | the whole thing was chronically mismanaged and nearly tanked the company | 13:20 |
| tortoisedoc | r0kk3rz : correction, it *did* tank it | 13:20 |
| r0kk3rz | nokia still exists, somewhat | 13:20 |
| tortoisedoc | (or better the fact the operation was mismanaged did) | 13:21 |
| tortoisedoc | well not devices | 13:21 |
| r0kk3rz | but same thing | 13:21 |
| tortoisedoc | devils in the detailss ...:P | 13:21 |
| r0kk3rz | theres a big article about it on tmo | 13:21 |
| r0kk3rz | read that | 13:21 |
| tortoisedoc | locusf : were you in meego team? | 13:21 |
| tortoisedoc | r0kk3rz : been around since 2008 am aware :) | 13:22 |
| r0kk3rz | then you should know what happened already | 13:22 |
| tortoisedoc | and why we are here? yes | 13:22 |
| tortoisedoc | there there | 13:24 |
| tortoisedoc | https://mobiili.fi/2018/02/26/jollan-sailfish-kayttojarjestelma-sopii-pian-peruspuhelimiin-myos-whatsapp-toimi-3310aa-muistuttavassa-esittelylaitteessa/ | 13:24 |
| tortoisedoc | it *is* a noklia | 13:25 |
| tortoisedoc | s/noklia/nokia | 13:25 |
| tortoisedoc | darn kb | 13:25 |
| tortoisedoc | its a pity if they wall the apps tho | 13:25 |
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| beidl | tbf not a lot of apps are tailored for keyboard-type input anymore | 13:26 |
| beidl | or navigation with a trackball | 13:26 |
| tortoisedoc | beidl : space for innovation? | 13:26 |
| beidl | hell yeah! | 13:27 |
| beidl | :P | 13:27 |
| tortoisedoc | back to the roots :D | 13:27 |
| Acou_Bass | id love a phone with a tracpad/nippe thing, like blackberrry's used to have | 13:27 |
| tortoisedoc | forget about touchscreen! | 13:27 |
| Acou_Bass | i found it far easier to use than a touchscreen | 13:27 |
| tortoisedoc | who needs that | 13:27 |
| tortoisedoc | bb were awesome | 13:27 |
| tortoisedoc | n0kius : btw see picture in article it says "dedicated store" :P | 13:28 |
| tortoisedoc | erm | 13:28 |
| Acou_Bass | thatd be a perfect phone for me... basically a nokia n900 but with a blackberry touchpoint (what do they even call that thing) on the side, and maybe a tad bigger :D | 13:28 |
| tortoisedoc | r0kk3rz ^ | 13:28 |
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| tortoisedoc | funny how the finnish article posts a picture of the nokia whilst the english one of the sony xperia | 13:29 |
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| tortoisedoc | (in the twitter preview i mean) | 13:29 |
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| Acou_Bass | was gonna say, the article has an xperia, gemini and 3310 :P | 13:30 |
| Kabouik_ | Did anyone identify a 4.5"-or-so sized modern phone in the pictures? I'm interested in the Gemini as a replacement of my Jolla C, but not a big fan of the clamshell-only form factor, looking forward to the Livermorium device instead as my real new HWKB device. In the mean time, a small phone like Jolla 1 would be great. | 13:30 |
| beidl | though would be really hard to implement something trackball-friendly for all types of apps. might need some way of screen recording and I'm sure such feature is not going to bring the necessary power | 13:30 |
| beidl | *such feature phone | 13:31 |
| tortoisedoc | screen recording hmm | 13:32 |
| locusf | tortoisedoc: meego integration | 13:32 |
| Acou_Bass | ive got a GPD win for hardware keyboard usage, but its a tad bulky to use as a phone (plus lack of 3/4G hardware) | 13:32 |
| tortoisedoc | locusf : :O | 13:32 |
| beidl | as google does on androids "search within apps" feature | 13:32 |
| tortoisedoc | locusf : respect | 13:32 |
| beidl | locusf is one of the elders, treat him with respect, folks! | 13:33 |
| tortoisedoc | beidl : dont use android so need to google it :p | 13:33 |
| beidl | haha | 13:34 |
| r0kk3rz | elders? he's not *that* old :P | 13:34 |
| tortoisedoc | oh wow | 13:34 |
| tortoisedoc | a local search engine :D | 13:34 |
| tortoisedoc | thats like GOOGLE | 13:34 |
| tortoisedoc | but on your PHONE | 13:34 |
| tortoisedoc | :O | 13:34 |
| beidl | ahahahahaha | 13:34 |
| tortoisedoc | teh intenetz | 13:35 |
| beidl | crazy place aint it? | 13:35 |
| tortoisedoc | sorry just hitted the worst ever article about it | 13:35 |
| tortoisedoc | come to think of it | 13:35 |
| tortoisedoc | wasnt jala uspposed to have some pr about jolla at this mwc too? | 13:36 |
| r0kk3rz | its only day 1 | 13:36 |
| beidl | regarding internetz: https://twitter.com/Barny/status/923527637301121024 | 13:36 |
| locusf | damn its been 8 years since the project at meego integration started | 13:36 |
| locusf | and yeah indeed I | 13:36 |
| locusf | not that old | 13:36 |
| tortoisedoc | https://t.co/18pVlqLVb3 | 13:36 |
| tortoisedoc | r0kk3rz : i thought it was over already xD | 13:37 |
| beidl | locusf in the grand scheme of the channel title, namely sfos, you could be considered that :) | 13:37 |
| tortoisedoc | locusf : age is earned remember ;) | 13:38 |
| locusf | sure | 13:38 |
| locusf | to some degree | 13:38 |
| ^7heo | Celcius or imaginary? | 13:38 |
| tortoisedoc | to all degrees if you mind me; either through owrk or time ;) | 13:38 |
| tortoisedoc | *work | 13:38 |
| beidl | fairytale numbers | 13:38 |
| tortoisedoc | fairytail nr? | 13:38 |
| ^7heo | ah so texan | 13:39 |
| beidl | hahaha | 13:39 |
| tortoisedoc | fairytail -f /var/log/syslog -> all is fine | 13:39 |
| ^7heo | tortoisedoc: nope you got it wrong | 13:39 |
| ^7heo | fairytail is already -F | 13:39 |
| tortoisedoc | hmm -F | 13:39 |
| ^7heo | fairytail /var/log/syslog | 13:39 |
| locusf | quaternions? | 13:39 |
| ^7heo | that's the whole point | 13:39 |
| beidl | should print the text as marqueed as well | 13:39 |
| ^7heo | alias fairytail="tail -F" | 13:40 |
| tortoisedoc | hmhm | 13:40 |
| ^7heo | to be fair, I have that alias | 13:40 |
| ^7heo | I just call it fail | 13:40 |
| ^7heo | fail /var/log/messages | 13:40 |
| ^7heo | works great | 13:40 |
| tortoisedoc | -F same as --follow=name --retry | 13:40 |
| beidl | "when you need that extra hit of following your fails" | 13:40 |
| beidl | here, have a smoke dear friend | 13:40 |
| tortoisedoc | D: | 13:41 |
| tortoisedoc | ok now i got it :) | 13:41 |
| * beidl trying to make this sound like a 60s commercial | 13:41 | |
| ^7heo | tortoisedoc: please not that only -f is POSIX tho. | 13:41 |
| ^7heo | so you might want to use that alias only on GNU systems | 13:41 |
| tortoisedoc | ^7heo thats what I usually use :P | 13:41 |
| ^7heo | not me. | 13:41 |
| r0kk3rz | oh dear | 13:41 |
| tortoisedoc | such heresy! :D | 13:41 |
| ^7heo | to use GNU? correct. | 13:42 |
| ^7heo | But it's what's most common... | 13:42 |
| tortoisedoc | theres always BSD | 13:42 |
| ^7heo | So, gotta live with it. | 13:42 |
| tortoisedoc | somewhere | 13:42 |
| ^7heo | what do you think I use? | 13:42 |
| tortoisedoc | debian? | 13:42 |
| ^7heo | ... | 13:42 |
| beidl | LOL | 13:42 |
| beidl | with the bsd kernel | 13:42 |
| tortoisedoc | :D | 13:42 |
| ^7heo | yeah, no. | 13:42 |
| ^7heo | I'm not stupid. | 13:43 |
| tortoisedoc | wonder what youd call that | 13:43 |
| beidl | freebsd tbc | 13:43 |
| ^7heo | Kebian | 13:43 |
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| tortoisedoc | kebian :D | 13:43 |
| beidl | i'd call that good intentions | 13:43 |
| tortoisedoc | dear god a monster | 13:43 |
| ^7heo | Well it's kFreeBSD so... | 13:43 |
| * tortoisedoc ducks even deeper | 13:43 | |
| tortoisedoc | kFreeBSDebain | 13:43 |
| ^7heo | That's why I said Kebian | 13:43 |
| tortoisedoc | shait | 13:43 |
| tortoisedoc | kFreeBSDebian | 13:44 |
| ^7heo | Actually it's Debian/kFreeBSD | 13:44 |
| ^7heo | https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/ | 13:44 |
| beidl | hey, I'd actually install debian/kfbsd if I had a device available right now | 13:44 |
| tortoisedoc | hold on are you telling me this exists? | 13:44 |
| ^7heo | ofc. | 13:44 |
| beidl | sounds good actually | 13:44 |
| beidl | yes | 13:44 |
| tortoisedoc | :O | 13:44 |
| tortoisedoc | wat.the.f | 13:44 |
| ^7heo | Nah it's not so good, it's still GNU userland | 13:44 |
| ^7heo | but at least the kernel is sound. | 13:44 |
| ^7heo | ish | 13:44 |
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| tortoisedoc | sortof? | 13:44 |
| beidl | could switch some of the gnu tools though | 13:44 |
| ^7heo | it's not OpenBSD by any mean tho | 13:44 |
| tortoisedoc | i mean this is almost like crossing the streams | 13:45 |
| ^7heo | I would run kFreeBSD with busybox instead | 13:45 |
| tortoisedoc | lol | 13:45 |
| ^7heo | and musl | 13:45 |
| ^7heo | because glibc blows. | 13:45 |
| beidl | not pissing on electrical fences now, right? | 13:45 |
| ^7heo | well, that'd be using GNU | 13:45 |
| tortoisedoc | how did this now derail from sfos | 13:45 |
| beidl | right? RIGHT? :D | 13:45 |
| ^7heo | just that in GNU, electrical fences are at 1V, 0.5A, so that people can piss on the fence without too much pain | 13:45 |
| tortoisedoc | well in theory | 13:45 |
| ^7heo | because handholding. | 13:46 |
| tortoisedoc | mer is kernel agnostic? | 13:46 |
| locusf | HURD | 13:46 |
| tortoisedoc | so why not openbsd | 13:46 |
| ^7heo | Honestly | 13:46 |
| ^7heo | I'd rather have my SFOS running with a hardened kernel, musl and busybox... | 13:46 |
| beidl | to the children out there: don't piss on electrical fences | 13:46 |
| ^7heo | than anything else, atm. | 13:46 |
| ^7heo | I think it's easier to do than any of the alternatives. | 13:46 |
| tortoisedoc | electric fences were cool back in the days | 13:46 |
| ^7heo | beidl: unless it's GNU fences, they are made so that you can safely do anything with them | 13:47 |
| tortoisedoc | we had competitions with my friends of who would hold on to them longer | 13:47 |
| ^7heo | tortoisedoc: that explains the brain damage | 13:47 |
| * ^7heo hides | 13:47 | |
| tortoisedoc | in the days of hording cows | 13:47 |
| tortoisedoc | ^7heo not even far :P | 13:47 |
| beidl | ^7heo: yeah well from experience I happily disagree with what you just said :) | 13:47 |
| ^7heo | what experience? | 13:47 |
| ^7heo | cow hoarding? | 13:48 |
| beidl | ^7heo: doing anything with gnu tools | 13:48 |
| ^7heo | oh | 13:48 |
| ^7heo | I'm not saying they are always inoffensive. | 13:48 |
| tortoisedoc | somethign like that yes | 13:48 |
| ^7heo | I'm just saying they're always intended to be | 13:48 |
| beidl | I'm not into cow hoarding | 13:48 |
| beidl | I'm hetero | 13:48 |
| locusf | wtf is going on :D | 13:48 |
| ^7heo | to each their own | 13:48 |
| tortoisedoc | how about hoarding gnu's | 13:48 |
| beidl | ahahahaha | 13:48 |
| tortoisedoc | locusf a short trip on memory lane :P | 13:48 |
| ^7heo | tortoisedoc: I leave that to the GNU zealots | 13:48 |
| beidl | not a lot around though | 13:49 |
| ^7heo | around here or generally? | 13:49 |
| beidl | VM replicas all over | 13:49 |
| locusf | off-topic doesn't begin to describe this :p | 13:49 |
| tortoisedoc | yeah only one | 13:49 |
| tortoisedoc | and that one doesnt show too often | 13:49 |
| ^7heo | locusf: it's kinda on topic tho | 13:49 |
| ^7heo | locusf: we're "discussing" OS design | 13:49 |
| tortoisedoc | well i tried to get it back on track with the mer + openbsd | 13:49 |
| tortoisedoc | but it got *ignored* | 13:49 |
| beidl | yup | 13:50 |
| * beidl has the sads | 13:50 | |
| ^7heo | because I don't think it's a good idea to try to run OpenBSD instead of SFOS | 13:50 |
| ^7heo | driver wise, it's too much of an effort. | 13:50 |
| ^7heo | it might be easier to start with replacing systemd with something like s6 | 13:50 |
| ^7heo | then coreutils by busybox | 13:50 |
| locusf | hahah | 13:50 |
| beidl | LOL | 13:51 |
| ^7heo | then glibc by musl | 13:51 |
| tortoisedoc | nono we are talking kernel here please | 13:51 |
| ^7heo | and THEN harden the kernel | 13:51 |
| ^7heo | and THEN maybe switch it, but... | 13:51 |
| ^7heo | tortoisedoc: show me the drivers then | 13:51 |
| tortoisedoc | ^7heo : hybris? :p | 13:51 |
| beidl | kernel drivers hidden from userland perspective | 13:51 |
| tortoisedoc | youve got glibc? | 13:51 |
| ^7heo | not on a single system no | 13:52 |
| beidl | how secure things would be.. | 13:52 |
| tortoisedoc | openbsd + hybris = hmmm bsdhybris | 13:52 |
| tortoisedoc | beidl : no insmod / rmmod | 13:52 |
| beidl | right | 13:52 |
| beidl | which is kinda moot on linux anyway | 13:52 |
| locusf | porting libhybris to musl and openbsd ... | 13:53 |
| locusf | I don | 13:53 |
| locusf | I don't even want to imagine that | 13:53 |
| beidl | today is a good day | 13:53 |
| tortoisedoc | got a few free years beidl? ;) | 13:53 |
| ^7heo | yeah I don't think it'd take years | 13:53 |
| ^7heo | but definitely months at least. | 13:53 |
| tortoisedoc | well but | 13:53 |
| ^7heo | replacing systemd would definitely be the easiest part AFAICT | 13:53 |
| tortoisedoc | if openbsd runs in kebian | 13:53 |
| beidl | depends on what other things thee desire | 13:54 |
| ^7heo | or maybe that would be the coreutils -> busybox swap | 13:54 |
| tortoisedoc | the glibc->kernel part is done? | 13:54 |
| beidl | :P | 13:54 |
| tortoisedoc | "done", that is | 13:54 |
| beidl | a BSD based phone os.... *cough* iOS | 13:55 |
| ^7heo | yeah, not one that does a crapload of stuff behind your back tho | 13:55 |
| beidl | would be awesome | 13:55 |
| ^7heo | and written by a company that grants root access on login when you keep pressing enter | 13:55 |
| beidl | AHAHAHAHA | 13:55 |
| beidl | like with GRUB? | 13:55 |
| beidl | issues on many siiids | 13:56 |
| beidl | siiides* | 13:56 |
| tortoisedoc | hm so | 13:56 |
| beidl | a bsd based phone os actually sounds really compelling, though certainly would need a systemd/launchd like init system | 13:56 |
| tortoisedoc | oh no | 13:57 |
| tortoisedoc | not yet another one | 13:57 |
| tortoisedoc | please no | 13:57 |
| tortoisedoc | whats wrong with init | 13:57 |
| beidl | which *init*? | 13:57 |
| beidl | sysv? | 13:57 |
| tortoisedoc | the one and onlyt | 13:57 |
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| tortoisedoc | are there any others? :P | 13:57 |
| beidl | tortoisedoc: guess how we got into this init mess :P | 13:58 |
| tortoisedoc | hm | 13:58 |
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| tortoisedoc | lets not go there :) | 13:58 |
| beidl | yes :) | 13:58 |
| tortoisedoc | instead lets focus on this openbsd thign | 13:58 |
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| beidl | have you tried systemd-run for example? | 13:59 |
| tortoisedoc | hmm should i | 13:59 |
| beidl | transiently starting a service and applying resource limits is the shit | 13:59 |
| beidl | not really | 14:00 |
| tortoisedoc | :D | 14:00 |
| beidl | just saying that "static" inits aren't up to the task anymore | 14:00 |
| beidl | "static only" rather | 14:00 |
| tortoisedoc | nothing wrong with systems doing what they're told no? | 14:01 |
| tortoisedoc | I mean; whats the use case of "dynamically" starting services | 14:02 |
| tortoisedoc | youll have your browesr started. maybe | 14:02 |
| tortoisedoc | ? | 14:02 |
| tortoisedoc | *browser too | 14:02 |
| beidl | the point is the dynamic dependency handling, among other things | 14:02 |
| tortoisedoc | thats more interesting | 14:02 |
| tortoisedoc | but still static | 14:02 |
| tortoisedoc | I mean dependencies should not change on their own | 14:03 |
| tortoisedoc | i correct myself : MUST NOT change on their own | 14:03 |
| beidl | but dependent services could disappear | 14:03 |
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| beidl | and this is the issue with that whole static only thing | 14:03 |
| tortoisedoc | im not sure i grasp the meaning of "disappear" | 14:05 |
| beidl | for example: updating a component which ships a service, service has to be restarted but is being depended on by other services, etc | 14:06 |
| beidl | depending on how many layers there are this could get tricky as hell | 14:07 |
| beidl | on a static only init | 14:07 |
| beidl | not mining too deep into this topic :) | 14:07 |
| niqt | Hi, i saw the announce of sailfishos, but i dont see any news for the push notifications | 14:08 |
| ^7heo | you might hit bedrock fast yeah | 14:08 |
| beidl | ^7heo: the point | 14:08 |
| ^7heo | the riddle | 14:08 |
| tortoisedoc | the horror | 14:08 |
| beidl | and the ugly fuckup | 14:08 |
| beidl | yeah, horror sounds more reasonably | 14:09 |
| beidl | reasonable* | 14:09 |
| r0kk3rz | niqt: what push notifications :P | 14:09 |
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| beidl | hmm... anybody actually interested in a BSD based phone os? | 14:17 |
| tortoisedoc | hehe | 14:18 |
| tortoisedoc | we are all thinking about it now, thats why we are so quiet :P | 14:18 |
| tortoisedoc | btw stevey has done it already ;) | 14:18 |
| r0kk3rz | nope | 14:18 |
| beidl | https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/32hid6/has_anyone_tried_making_a_bsd_phone/cqbavs6/ | 14:19 |
| Acou_Bass | isnt iOS based on the same BSD stuff macOS is? | 14:19 |
| beidl | kernel is xnu thoug | 14:19 |
| beidl | h | 14:19 |
| tortoisedoc | xnu? | 14:19 |
| beidl | name of osx/ios kernel | 14:19 |
| Acou_Bass | very vaguely related to mach isnt it? xD been a while since i read up on it | 14:20 |
| beidl | so many wordplays if you understood german :P | 14:20 |
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| Acou_Bass | 0,o | 14:21 |
| tortoisedoc | wheres the wordplay in xnu escapes me :P | 14:21 |
| tango_ | death by xnu xnu | 14:21 |
| * tortoisedoc is lost | 14:21 | |
| beidl | the wordplays weren't written down | 14:21 |
| beidl | yyyyyet | 14:21 |
| ^7heo | not enough y. | 14:21 |
| tortoisedoc | lol | 14:21 |
| tortoisedoc | https://memegenerator.net/instance/75655333/death-by-snu-snu-death-by-xnu-xnu | 14:21 |
| ^7heo | $(yes | tr -d '\r\n')et | 14:22 |
| ^7heo | here you go | 14:22 |
| beidl | hahahaha | 14:22 |
| beidl | wrong kind of sacks in the mouth, eh | 14:22 |
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| beidl | talking about something elxe now | 14:22 |
| beidl | else* | 14:22 |
| ^7heo | well, #define bags | 14:23 |
| beidl | typedef rather | 14:23 |
| ^7heo | no, that was a prompt | 14:23 |
| tortoisedoc | typedef rather else | 14:24 |
| tortoisedoc | there | 14:24 |
| Acou_Bass | speaking of err, sacks... does anyone have any protective case recommendations for the xperia X? the one ive got is ridiculously huge, wanna slim it down a bit XD | 14:24 |
| tortoisedoc | https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu | 14:24 |
| beidl | you want to be too specific too fast, we haven't finished talking about BSD phone OSes lol | 14:24 |
| tortoisedoc | lol | 14:24 |
| ^7heo | Acou_Bass: I got some from amazon.de | 14:24 |
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| tortoisedoc | heres a kernel even | 14:24 |
| ^7heo | Acou_Bass: I forgot the brand, one sec' | 14:24 |
| tortoisedoc | ^ | 14:24 |
| ^7heo | ah, BEZ | 14:25 |
| tortoisedoc | SO | 14:25 |
| tortoisedoc | darwin-xnu + libhybris + mer = SFOS on openbsd? :P | 14:25 |
| ^7heo | https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01NARDVRI/ | 14:25 |
| ^7heo | that | 14:25 |
| ^7heo | Acou_Bass: ^ | 14:26 |
| ^7heo | I got one of each | 14:26 |
| ^7heo | beacuse why not. | 14:26 |
| tortoisedoc | exactly | 14:26 |
| tortoisedoc | DONE | 14:26 |
| Acou_Bass | ahh more of a leather flippy case | 14:26 |
| Acou_Bass | that looks alright, think ill go for that :D thanks! | 14:26 |
| tortoisedoc | Acou_Bass ive got a similar one and its very good | 14:27 |
| beidl | teh empetey hulses | 14:27 |
| ^7heo | I also got a transparent silicon case at some local store | 14:27 |
| ^7heo | for about 15 bucks or so | 14:27 |
| Acou_Bass | yeah i dont really like those | 14:27 |
| beidl | question : why? | 14:27 |
| phried | I bought a leather flip case, but it makes it difficult to press the buttons | 14:27 |
| ^7heo | it's also pretty good, but the flapping cover is nice if you don't have a hardened screen glass protector | 14:27 |
| ^7heo | phried: the BEZ ones are pretty good for that | 14:28 |
| Acou_Bass | eecant be any harder to press the buttons than they are in my current case | 14:28 |
| Acou_Bass | this case completely covers the on switch... so if/when fingerprint ID comes out for sailfish i'm screwed :P | 14:28 |
| tortoisedoc | the cover is actually really good for protection but very uncomfortable if you have to call | 14:28 |
| phried | here's the one I have: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B06W9G6LBT/ | 14:28 |
| tortoisedoc | some come with a magnetic holder | 14:28 |
| tortoisedoc | so that once you open it it stays open | 14:28 |
| Acou_Bass | yeah i dont have a screen protector (though this case has one built in) | 14:29 |
| ^7heo | Acou_Bass: the BEZ cases are good for the buttons, the cutouts are really good | 14:29 |
| Acou_Bass | fair do's, ill go with it :D thanks | 14:30 |
| Acou_Bass | i dont really like the brown/blue one though so black it is Xd | 14:30 |
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| Acou_Bass | wish theyd have done a purple one to match the 'flow' ambience :D | 14:30 |
| ^7heo | it's easier to change your ambiance honestly | 14:31 |
| Acou_Bass | yeh but i like flow | 14:31 |
| ^7heo | Acou_Bass: also we ordered that: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B077T1Y2R3/ at the same time | 14:32 |
| beidl | now only needs a matching screen protector, better one that doesn't flicker in wrong sunlight | 14:32 |
| ^7heo | it's pretty cool, and also works on laptops and stuff | 14:33 |
| Acou_Bass | ahh ive got an openSUSE one of those | 14:33 |
| Acou_Bass | got it at guadec | 14:33 |
| ^7heo | one of what? | 14:33 |
| ^7heo | screen foil or camera slider? | 14:33 |
| Acou_Bass | camera slider | 14:33 |
| ^7heo | ah yeah | 14:33 |
| ^7heo | it's cool | 14:33 |
| Acou_Bass | but uhh | 14:33 |
| Acou_Bass | my laptop doesnt have a webcam. | 14:33 |
| ^7heo | but it doesn't block infrared... | 14:33 |
| Acou_Bass | :P | 14:33 |
| ^7heo | AFAIK | 14:34 |
| ^7heo | yeah well, don't consider yourself unlucky. | 14:34 |
| ^7heo | I'd love a laptop without a webcam. | 14:34 |
| beidl | purism? | 14:34 |
| Acou_Bass | it also has sound driver issues on the ol' linux so the microphone doesnt work either | 14:34 |
| Acou_Bass | soo | 14:34 |
| Acou_Bass | spyproof :P | 14:34 |
| r0kk3rz | scalpel? | 14:34 |
| beidl | purism laptops at least have a proper hardware switch | 14:35 |
| beidl | for turning off connectivity | 14:35 |
| Acou_Bass | this is a GPD win, but i basically use it as a laptop rather than a gaming device XD | 14:35 |
| tortoisedoc | beidl : like the phone from McAfee= | 14:35 |
| tortoisedoc | ? | 14:35 |
| tortoisedoc | https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/4/28/15459314/john-mcafee-privacy-phone-announce | 14:36 |
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| beidl | he never followed up on the phone thing, right? | 14:36 |
| tortoisedoc | its been a year yes | 14:36 |
| tortoisedoc | guess its gone | 14:36 |
| tortoisedoc | wonder if he was planning to have it openbsd based | 14:37 |
| beidl | which is why I'd rather wait for the purism phone | 14:37 |
| * tortoisedoc reducks | 14:37 | |
| tortoisedoc | actually | 14:37 |
| beidl | get out there, damnit!! :D | 14:37 |
| niqt | r0kk3rz: the notification can't like but it's must for the mobile | 14:37 |
| r0kk3rz | we manage ok without | 14:38 |
| Acou_Bass | its a pretty sad state of affairs that we have to rely on hardware switches in our phone in order for them not to spy on us -_- but im glad purism are doing their thing :D | 14:39 |
| beidl | notifications really need a lot of improvement... | 14:39 |
| beidl | Acou_Bass: blame circuitry :) | 14:40 |
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| Acou_Bass | not really, blame the advertising industry that gives incentive to companies like facebook to snoop on your microphone al the time | 14:41 |
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| beidl | two issues, one is technical, the other is sociial | 14:41 |
| beidl | social* | 14:41 |
| Acou_Bass | i feel like fixing the 'social' aspect would be enough for most people though | 14:42 |
| beidl | the social aspect is harder to fix though | 14:42 |
| Acou_Bass | the majority of us arent actively espionaged by governments and hackers directly | 14:42 |
| beidl | remember that "ok google" on the google homescreen requires a always active microphone | 14:43 |
| beidl | on android | 14:43 |
| Acou_Bass | yeepp | 14:43 |
| beidl | so there is no need for a government to spy on anybody if people are giving away their information anyway | 14:43 |
| beidl | in this case speech as the microphone is always turned on | 14:44 |
| Acou_Bass | but my point is, if google didnt do that, the only people who would need hardware switches, are those who are actually worried about government/hackery spying, the rest of us wouldnt be actively mic-tapped so hardware switches wouldnt be needed | 14:44 |
| beidl | for now | 14:45 |
| beidl | anyway, interesting topics today lol | 14:45 |
| Acou_Bass | only reason 'normal' people really want hardware switches is because we know if we dont have them google/facebook/whoever else will just take our data as easy pickin's | 14:46 |
| Acou_Bass | without them doing it, the govt would have to work a hell of a lot harder to hack me, at which point they would probably not bother, unless they had a good (in their eyes) reason to | 14:47 |
| beidl | you think security aware people *want* hardware switches? | 14:47 |
| Acou_Bass | i think security aware people go for the low hanging fruit which is 'dont use services that spy on you in the first place' :P | 14:48 |
| beidl | I certainly don't but humans are greedy assholes so we need short term solutions as well | 14:48 |
| beidl | exactly! | 14:48 |
| Acou_Bass | which is my point, only the genuinely targetted would need hardware switches really, if the services werent monitoring us | 14:49 |
| beidl | ask governments around the world to properly define "genuine target", I'll wait :) | 14:49 |
| beidl | ANYWAY | 14:50 |
| beidl | BSD phones? | 14:50 |
| Acou_Bass | well, right now because we're all actively surveiled by google, the govt are happy to blanket-surveil us via google... but if google stopped, the govt would have to actually *hack* us rather than just go through google, which means theyd become far more targetted (effort vs. reward) | 14:50 |
| Acou_Bass | XD | 14:50 |
| Acou_Bass | im probably wrong and missing a fairly big point here, but yeah ;D | 14:51 |
| beidl | meet me on a tee for that topic :) | 14:51 |
| Acou_Bass | why would you want a BSD phone for that? | 14:51 |
| beidl | tea* | 14:51 |
| beidl | *cough* | 14:51 |
| Acou_Bass | ok fine but remove the battery or leave your phone at home | 14:51 |
| Acou_Bass | ;D | 14:51 |
| beidl | are you allergic to electricity? :P | 14:52 |
| beidl | jk | 14:53 |
| Acou_Bass | nah im just a hippie, my phone has a hank-crank | 14:53 |
| Acou_Bass | hand-crank* | 14:53 |
| beidl | I should check by the channel more often | 14:54 |
| beidl | hahahaha | 14:54 |
| Acou_Bass | i dont support Big Energy | 14:54 |
| beidl | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f488uJAQgmw | 14:55 |
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| niqt | maybe i don't understand or dont' know something, but if i want that the user uses my app/service and i want send e message to this user how can i do on sailfish (if the app is closed)? | 15:02 |
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| r0kk3rz | you cant | 15:03 |
| r0kk3rz | or you send them an sms | 15:04 |
| ^7heo | damn, I need to learn awk | 15:04 |
| beidl | niqt: SFOS supports the freedesktop spec for notifications though | 15:07 |
| beidl | if you talk about those kinds of notifications | 15:08 |
| niqt | and i dont' understand why of it. On maemo we had the push notification... | 15:08 |
| r0kk3rz | beidl: theres no remote api for that though, you have to cobble one together yourself | 15:08 |
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| beidl | you mean as in google C2DM I assume | 15:08 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah basically | 15:09 |
| beidl | not really the job of jolla | 15:09 |
| r0kk3rz | well nobody else is doing it | 15:09 |
| beidl | defeats the purpose of independance, aint? | 15:09 |
| beidl | certainly would need volunteers | 15:10 |
| beidl | wondering how ubports handle this situation | 15:10 |
| r0kk3rz | its not that hard do make one though https://github.com/r0kk3rz/mqtt-notify | 15:10 |
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| r0kk3rz | beidl: ubuntu used some centralised service, some apache thing | 15:10 |
| beidl | r0kk3rz: not what I was wondering about, more like how the community handles hosting | 15:11 |
| beidl | hosting their own, I see | 15:11 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah cordova, that was it | 15:12 |
| beidl | community effort required for running up against google and apple | 15:12 |
| beidl | you are too technical right now :) | 15:12 |
| r0kk3rz | meh, i dont require sfos to be mainstream :P | 15:13 |
| r0kk3rz | android and ios have the mainstream covered quite solidly | 15:14 |
| beidl | not a question of mainstream or not | 15:15 |
| r0kk3rz | then i dont understand your point | 15:16 |
| locusf | ipfs pubsub ftw | 15:18 |
| beidl | :) | 15:19 |
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| blap | anyone have es2gears_wayland? | 16:18 |
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| Faf | hello | 16:28 |
| Faf | im currently trying to migrate all my data from my old jolla1 to my new xperia, but the backup created from the jolla1 is not visible when I try to restore it from the xperia. would anyone here know where I could find official documentation about how to do this ? | 16:30 |
| fledermaus | check for related questions on together.jolla.com ? | 16:31 |
| *** Faf is now known as Faf_ch | 16:31 | |
| Faf_ch | there are no helpful answer there | 16:31 |
| Faf_ch | im here because I could not find any help on the forums | 16:32 |
| Faf_ch | https://together.jolla.com/question/170778/feature-request-compatibility-of-backuprestore-for-all-sailfishos-devices/?sort=votes&page=1 | 16:32 |
| Faf_ch | someone asked the same question | 16:32 |
| fledermaus | ok | 16:32 |
| Faf_ch | but no answer for jolla1 | 16:32 |
| Faf_ch | only some people saying "it works for me with Aqua Fish or FP2 (whatever that is)" | 16:33 |
| Faf_ch | which doesnt help me | 16:33 |
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| Faf_ch | is tehre some kind of file where sailfish os store the backups list or so? | 16:35 |
| Faf_ch | because even after renaming a backup created on the xperia, the backup is still listed in the "backup restore" gui | 16:36 |
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| blap | i dunno how to do that | 16:38 |
| fledermaus | no idea sorry. | 16:40 |
| mal | Faf_ch: FP2 is Fairphone 2 | 16:40 |
| M4rtinK | I've migrated from Jolla C to Xpearia by connecting to both by sshfs and copying stuff by hand | 16:42 |
| M4rtinK | generally dotfiles | 16:42 |
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| M4rtinK | and I think I've imported contacts via a vcf file | 16:42 |
| Faf_ch | I would prefer not having to migrate all my contact, history, email, and everything by hand if possible .... | 16:43 |
| nthn | Are they on the same OS version? The backup format was changed at least once not too long ago | 16:43 |
| Faf_ch | same version yes | 16:43 |
| Faf_ch | I have updated my jolla 1 to 2.1.3.7 | 16:43 |
| Faf_ch | same on the xperia | 16:44 |
| nthn | Then I have no idea unfortunately | 16:45 |
| nthn | You could contact Jolla care in any case | 16:45 |
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| Faf_ch | could you possibly tell me what is the contact info for customer on jolla care? because all the contact link I see dont seem to be for anything related to tech support https://jolla.com/contact/ | 16:47 |
| r0kk3rz | tbh the 'migrate your stuff to a new device' experience is a bit neglected | 16:47 |
| Faf_ch | Business and general inquiries: info@jolla.com < this ? | 16:48 |
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| tadzik | does anyone remember which tjc question was it that contained the shell line to unfuck the duplicate calendars from caldav? | 17:11 |
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| ol | Did anyone have success in making anbox run on Jolla C? | 18:53 |
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| r0kk3rz | ol: not yet, but its a possibility | 18:58 |
| Kabouik_ | Did any one have success making it run on any device with a community port? This would be a game changer for me. | 18:58 |
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| r0kk3rz | some, according to mal | 19:01 |
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| Kabouik_ | Well then I'm very curious about it, please share mal! | 19:11 |
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| mal | I have it running on one device, still buggy and I need to fix installation so people can use without much manual hacking | 19:15 |
| mal | but that is on xperia x, with properly built jolla c kernel it should be quite simple for that also | 19:16 |
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| ol | r0kk3rz: Are there any instructions how to run anbox in Sailfish OS? | 19:29 |
| ol | mal: What has to be changed in kernel on Jolla C to run anbox? | 19:30 |
| mal | add some features and maybe change the configs, not sure if it has the needed configs | 19:31 |
| mal | those changes for xperia x were 4 patches | 19:33 |
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| Kabouik_ | Would be very grateful if you could open a thread on TMO about that mal, so that your work isn't forgotten deep in an IRC channel | 19:57 |
| Kabouik_ | People could help you debug it too, or make it more generic for other devices | 19:58 |
| mal | I have never used TMO | 19:58 |
| Kabouik_ | I have an unused Sailfish X licence, but if community ports can use Anbox, then I'm buying an Xperia X Compact immediately to wait until the Livermorium. | 19:58 |
| Kabouik_ | (Or Together.jolla.com then mal, just something that is not gonna be lost as this discussion) | 19:59 |
| mal | Kabouik_: the basic anbox image will be generic, only device specific things needed are the kernel changes | 20:00 |
| r0kk3rz | its ok, i can signal boost it and take all the credit :D | 20:00 |
| mal | maybe I can have a look at the installation issues after I get the new fp2 release out | 20:01 |
| Kabouik_ | What device are you using mal? | 20:03 |
| mal | depends on what, I have many devices, xperia x I use for anbox testing and some other stuff, fp2 is my main sfos porting project | 20:05 |
| Kabouik_ | I guess if you managed to make Anbox run on the X, it wouldn't be a big stretch to assume it could run on a Xperia Compact since they have a similar architecture? However the Xperia X Compact only has a community port of Sailfish, I don't know if that would make a big difference compared to Sailfish X on your Xperia X. | 20:07 |
| mal | like I said before, only relevant part is the kernel, no other changes are needed | 20:07 |
| Kabouik_ | (To be honest this is chinese to me, I don't know if the kernel differ among these devices!) | 20:08 |
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| r0kk3rz | they do | 20:09 |
| mal | only thing needed is a kernel 3.10 or newer with some patches applied, nothing more | 20:09 |
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| Kabouik_ | I guess that means that the thing is more real than I thought. Hype is increasing. | 20:10 |
| mal | well it's still a very early version, quite buggy | 20:10 |
| Kabouik_ | Alien Dalvik is still buggy, better than nothing! | 20:11 |
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| ol | mal: My Jolla C already has kernel 3.10.49. What patches are needed to run anbox? | 20:56 |
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| mal | I will tell when I make the anbox packages available | 20:59 |
| mal | 2 binder patches, overlayfs and config changes | 21:00 |
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| Acou_Bass | how does anbox differ from sfdroid? if at all? | 21:12 |
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| mal | Acou_Bass: it's quite different in many ways, anbox is running in a container, sf droid wasn't | 21:19 |
| mal | also anbox doesn't need as much patching and is not device or android base specific | 21:19 |
| Acou_Bass | interesting | 21:22 |
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| ol | mal: What do you mean by saying "make the anbox packages available"? I already see anbox packages in https://build.merproject.org/project/show/home:saidinesh5:anbox and https://build.merproject.org/project/show/home:mal:anbox | 21:25 |
| mal | those are not up to date and won't really work well | 21:25 |
| ol | How are your packages different from saidinesh5's? | 21:25 |
| mal | my new code is rebased to latest anbox version and has many other changes | 21:26 |
| ol | Are you going to publish them in your OBS project or somewhere else? | 21:26 |
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| mal | there maybe, or somewhere else, I haven't yet thought about that really | 21:27 |
| ol | Could you please highlight me on IRC when you do this? This channel has much traffic sometimes, so I don't read it all the time. Or please announce it in #anbox channel. | 21:29 |
| mal | my memory is quite bad nowadays so can't promise anything, I will announce it on some channels | 21:35 |
| Kabouik_ | Well if you happen to keep a list of people to highlight, I'm in (same reasons as Ol's)! | 21:36 |
| Kabouik_ | In any case, thanks a lot for your work mal. The moment the package is out, I'm buying a X Compact. | 21:37 |
| ol | I think, it would be better to announce everything related to anbox in #anbox channel. | 21:38 |
| Kabouik_ | I still think it should be relayed to TJC or TMO so that Sailfish people are aware somehow, #anbox and #sailfish members are not necessarily the same people, let alone all people that don't use IRC. | 21:40 |
| mal | we have mostly discussed anbox for sailfish on #sfdroid, not very often since currently it basically just me doing it | 21:42 |
| ol | Also, can we accelerate development by providing donations to mal? | 21:42 |
| mal | I do not accept donations, never have, people have tried | 21:43 |
| ol | I have financial interest in working anbox on Jolla C. Banking apps are not reliable with Alien Dalvik. Revolut sometimes stops working, and N26 has a glitch that doesn't allow me to complete registration. | 21:45 |
| mal | I would never use banking app on my phone so I don't really think of those | 21:48 |
| ol | I would never use them as well, but this is the only way to use Revolut. They don't even have web interface. | 21:48 |
| Kabouik_ | What glitch ol? I have a N26 account and I don't remember if I registered with the Jolla 1 or an Android VM, it was years ago. | 21:49 |
| Kabouik_ | But the application works fine when the Play store/Services are not messed up. | 21:49 |
| Kabouik_ | So far. | 21:49 |
| ol | Kabouik_: After I take a picture of my passport, it asks me to enter passport number and other data. After I enter passport number, there is no way further. If I press Enter on onscreen keyboard, nothing happens. | 21:51 |
| ol | And there are no other controls on screen to click. Just a field to enter passport number. | 21:51 |
| Kabouik_ | Are you sure you don't need to use an Android keyboard for that ol? This is another issue with some (few) Android applications: the Return key is not always recognized as a "OK" key, and using an Android keyboard helps. | 21:52 |
| Kabouik_ | I think you can try registering like that, and then revert back to the default keyboard | 21:52 |
| ol | They changed registration recently. Before, they required to start videoconference, but this didn't work as well, showing error message that my Internet connection is not fast enough. | 21:53 |
| ol | Kabouik_: How can I use Androis keyboard with Alien Dalvik? | 21:53 |
| Kabouik_ | I think you need to install the Google keyboard from the Play store (or maybe Yalp) and then you can switch between the default one and the Android one using Alien Dalvik Control, an app from Coderus (I think). | 21:54 |
| Kabouik_ | It's worth a try at least | 21:54 |
| mal | that reminds me that on screen keyboard is not working in anbox | 21:55 |
| Kabouik_ | But in Anbox, I suppose the keyboard would be Android already, right? | 21:55 |
| ol | Why does this Google Keyboard requires access to my contacts? :-O | 21:56 |
| Kabouik_ | Well it probably wants to get all their information and send it to Google and then ransom them. | 21:56 |
| Kabouik_ | You'll see in the settings of this keyboard that "Send typing exceprts to Google" is enabled by default. | 21:57 |
| Kabouik_ | It always amazes me when I use Google systems or Windows and see the default options... | 21:57 |
| ol | No, it's not enabled by default on my phone. | 21:58 |
| Kabouik_ | Oh, good, it was when I installed it | 21:59 |
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| Acou_Bass | do people really use android keyboards on sailfish 0,o not sure i see the reason XD | 21:59 |
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| Kabouik_ | The reason is just described above Acou_Bass :p | 22:00 |
| Kabouik_ | But I use the Sailfish keyboard, just needed the Android one for a specific use once (registration with an banking app too: Curve). | 22:00 |
| Acou_Bass | ohhh right | 22:01 |
| Acou_Bass | weird | 22:01 |
| Acou_Bass | i never even considered that some apps might need to use the google keyboard to register 0,o | 22:01 |
| Kabouik_ | I believe the issue was reported somewhere on TJC, basically Return key != OK key. | 22:01 |
| Acou_Bass | ahh | 22:02 |
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| ol | How to enable Google Keyboard in Alien Dalvik? | 22:07 |
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| Kabouik_ | You need this https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/aliendalvik-control | 22:08 |
| Kabouik_ | Then at the bottom you should be able to pick one of two input methods, if the Google keyboard is installed. | 22:08 |
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| ol | Installed. | 22:11 |
| Kabouik_ | Now let's see if it can help you with N26 registration | 22:11 |
| Kabouik_ | (For your information, I use the Sailfish keyboard in the N26 app at the moment, so you should not need the Android keyboard for any operation in their app, except maybe registration) | 22:11 |
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| Acou_Bass | you all got me curious to know if my bank will lemme use their app on sailfish/alien dalvik now | 22:17 |
| Acou_Bass | if i remember correctly theyre one of those who dont let you use rooted/jailbroken phones so something makes me doubt this is going to work | 22:17 |
| Kabouik_ | Hope they wouldn't require the Android keyboard anyway, I stopped using Curve because I couldn't stand the Android keyboard | 22:17 |
| ol | Kabouik_: Now I've succcessfully completed regstration. Thank you very much! :-) | 22:18 |
| Kabouik_ | Nice! Glad it worked! | 22:19 |
| Acou_Bass | hmm cant even get the option to download my bank's app... probably has an androidversion requirement | 22:20 |
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| ol | OK, now anbox is less urgent for me, but still would be nice to have. N26 registration complete, Revolut works now, but I'll need backup plan in case it breaks again. | 22:20 |
| Kabouik_ | It surely will at some point, always at the worst time (when you need the app to complete a bank wire!) | 22:21 |
| ol | Acou_Bass: If you have Jolla 1, Alien Dalvik emulates quite old Android version there. I was unable to install Revolut there until I bought Jolla C. | 22:21 |
| Kabouik_ | But reinstalling the application from the store usually works. Just make sure you have either Yalp or Play store working (Yalp works most of the time, but last time I had an issue, only the Play store would install the new N26 app properly, no idea why). | 22:22 |
| Acou_Bass | ol: no its an xperia X, so that means kitkat doesnt it? | 22:22 |
| ol | I don't know. | 22:23 |
| Acou_Bass | me neither i dont really use dalvik much hehe | 22:23 |
| ol | I didn't buy Sony Xperia, waiting for dual-sim device officially supported. | 22:23 |
| ol | Or may be I should wait little bit more until promised next generation device supported. | 22:24 |
| Acou_Bass | im super happy with it, finally ditched my nexus 4 :P | 22:24 |
| Kabouik_ | I think Sailfish X has at least the same dalvik as the Jolla C, if not more recent, so it should be ok | 22:25 |
| Acou_Bass | i seem to remember in the release notes it said the dalvik emulates 4.4.4 | 22:25 |
| Acou_Bass | all i knows is my banks app isnt giving me the option to download via yalp store and that usually suggests android version incompatability | 22:26 |
| ol | I'm afraid, that what matters is not Alien Dalvik version, but rather Android version Sailfish hardware adaptation for your device is based. | 22:26 |
| ol | *is based on. | 22:28 |
| Acou_Bass | yeh, only app i actually use that doesnt run on it is the mattermost one | 22:32 |
| Acou_Bass | mattermost classic works fine though so oh well no great loss :P | 22:32 |
| Acou_Bass | not to mention i mostly just use it via bitlbee/ZNC anyway | 22:33 |
| Kabouik_ | Mattermost performance is terrible on my Jolla C though, slow webview, and crashes so often (runs out of memory I think) | 22:34 |
| Acou_Bass | yeah its no better than just opening the actual website up in the browser to be honest | 22:34 |
| Acou_Bass | which is why i tend to just use it via znc + IRC app | 22:34 |
| Acou_Bass | IRC does tank my battery pretty good though XD | 22:37 |
| Kabouik_ | Not too good for offline messaging either :(. | 22:38 |
| Acou_Bass | with ZNC its great | 22:39 |
| Acou_Bass | when i fire IRC up, it connects to ZNC and ZNC basically just plays back all my buffers | 22:39 |
| Acou_Bass | zero complaints about that aspect from me - just the battery life tanking that i dislike :P | 22:40 |
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| Kabouik_ | mal, is it possible to use Google Services with Anbox? Many applications depend on it (unfortunately). | 23:42 |
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