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| asdf_ | how about we make migration from systemd to openrc? openrc is great | 05:44 |
|---|---|---|
| blabber | systemd works fine on my sailfish devices. i prefer jolla to invest their resources into new features and the amoothing of rough edges. | 05:50 |
| blabber | s/amoothing/smoothing/ | 05:51 |
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| asdf_ | it would be a nice move, but sure, high priority tasks should be done first | 06:36 |
| r0kk3rz | asdf_: for what purpose? | 06:43 |
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| keithzg[m] | blabber: I definitely agree; hell, I've had at least some issues on every systemd setup other than on SailfishOS, and many of the times I've tangled with systemd as a sysadmin I've went "gahh, this is needlessly complex right now...but I can totally see how this approach would be great for a mobile OS". If anything, SailfishOS is the one place that systemd is 100% justified in being ;) | 06:58 |
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| r0kk3rz | its not even that though, if you want to swap out a fairly core piece then you'd want a good reason for doing that | 07:33 |
| r0kk3rz | so far anyone thats come in here and asked about removing systemd, the best answer they can come up with is `i don't like it` | 07:34 |
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| Ingvix | how could I use lrelease command outside the building process of Sailfish SDK? I want to use it to only one file | 09:23 |
| Ingvix | is it located somewhere in mersdk? | 09:23 |
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| leszek | Ingvix: I guess the qm files are architecture dependent. So you need to ssh into the sdk and chroot I think the sb2 tool can be used for that to the target architecture and then use lrelease to create the qm file | 09:26 |
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| Ingvix | yes, I have ssh connection to mersdk already | 09:26 |
| leszek | I think sb2 can also directly executes commands see its help. I forgot how to use it and always see the help options on how to use it | 09:27 |
| Ingvix | I look in to it, thanks | 09:28 |
| leszek | and you need some packages for this installed I guess aswell. Though they might be already installed the lrelease binary I mean | 09:28 |
| Ingvix | uh, I wonder what's the corresponding command. sd2 command does not exist | 09:33 |
| Ingvix | sb2 I mean | 09:33 |
| Ingvix | whops, it seems I actually typed sd2 first... | 09:33 |
| Ingvix | sb2 do exist | 09:33 |
| r0kk3rz | sb2 -t [your-target-here] [commands go here] | 09:34 |
| r0kk3rz | -R if you need root | 09:34 |
| r0kk3rz | btw targets autocomplete, which is nice | 09:35 |
| Ingvix | well I opened the shell with just sb2 already | 09:35 |
| leszek | :) | 09:35 |
| Ingvix | though what are the targets in this context? | 09:36 |
| leszek | armv7hl and i486 | 09:36 |
| Ingvix | ah, right | 09:36 |
| leszek | though they are called Sailfish something something. Use autocomplete | 09:36 |
| Ingvix | yes, it auto-opened SailfishOS-i486 | 09:37 |
| r0kk3rz | sb2 is a cross compilation tool, so the targets are whatever you're cross compiling to | 09:40 |
| Ingvix | yes, I got that | 09:43 |
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| Ingvix | How do I sort of define default language for page if there's no translation for the system language? The translation ids aren't too pretty to watch | 09:49 |
| Ingvix | is it possibly by default en_GB or eng_en? | 09:51 |
| Ingvix | I made only en_US so far | 09:51 |
| Ingvix | doesn't seem to be those... | 09:53 |
| Ingvix | don | 09:54 |
| Ingvix | 't know what else could it be | 09:54 |
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| Ingvix | Ah, it was engineering english but it required "_" before the eng_en though other languages have "-" | 10:03 |
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| leszek | someone already did some ground work for the pulseaudio droid module and compatibility regarding newer pulseaudio versions? | 10:22 |
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| King_DuckZ | hi, from what I read around, flashing sfos on xperiax from linux works just fine, but it can't be stated publically because sony | 10:31 |
| King_DuckZ | is that correct? | 10:31 |
| r0kk3rz | something like this | 10:31 |
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| leszek | there is only one officially supported flashing way by sony basically | 10:32 |
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| r0kk3rz | someone already pulled the .ftf you need, so you can flash with with linux flashtool | 10:32 |
| leszek | King_DuckZ: I plan to do a tutorial on how to flash the official image with the official tool under linux using virtualbox and a windows vm | 10:32 |
| King_DuckZ | yes yes, but I have no windows and I have no intention of getting one, or even spend the time to figure out how it works | 10:32 |
| King_DuckZ | leszek: ah I think I saw your post on diaspora, I read that | 10:33 |
| leszek | :) | 10:33 |
| King_DuckZ | leszek: but I'm more interested in what r0kk3rz is saying right now ;) | 10:33 |
| leszek | yeah unofficial but also possible. See talk.maemo.org | 10:34 |
| King_DuckZ | I haven't seen much about this unofficial way on diaspora, it's a shame nobody from the community even mentions this | 10:35 |
| King_DuckZ | is it because there are risks associated, or just becauso nobody took the time to post? | 10:35 |
| King_DuckZ | risks like bricking, luring the swat, getting a cease & desist... this kind of risks | 10:36 |
| leszek | you can always do something wrong. In general lots of infos is on talk.maemo.org already. No one seems to care posting this on diaspora | 10:37 |
| r0kk3rz | tbh the sonys seem hard to permanently brick, you have a hardware flash mode | 10:38 |
| r0kk3rz | ive put my tablet in a state where it was almost completely unresponsive, but the flash mode still worked | 10:38 |
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| King_DuckZ | hm | 10:39 |
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| r0kk3rz | i never realised people still use diaspora | 10:40 |
| King_DuckZ | before I came here to this room it seemed all up in the air, and now I feel like getting sfos straight away... honestly, non-employees of jolla, please do post around, everybody seems to be upset because you can't use linux anymore, and it turns out it's just not true | 10:40 |
| jakibaki | leszek: The open source flashtool works perfectly fine for installing the update and the rest is just fastboot, no reason for a vm at all. | 10:42 |
| leszek | jakibaki: might be true. Though in general I want to show the "official" way as I got plenty requests regarding this already | 10:42 |
| leszek | jakibaki: feel free to do a video on using the open source flashtool | 10:43 |
| leszek | way | 10:43 |
| King_DuckZ | leszek: because people (including me) thought that was the only possible way | 10:43 |
| jakibaki | leszek: I've already written most of the guide for that way :) https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/sailfishXGuide | 10:43 |
| leszek | nice | 10:43 |
| King_DuckZ | jakibaki: do you mind if I share that link on diaspora? or do you prefer to do it yourself? | 10:44 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ: I'll post the guide as soon as I can test it (at release) on tmo. But if you want to post the wip-stuff there go ahead :) | 10:46 |
| King_DuckZ | jakibaki: tmo? you mean the stackoverflow-like thing? I'll share it on diaspora today then, even if it's a wip - people have been outraged because a week before launch it turns out they can't flash SFOS anymore and I'm sure your guide will clear up the misunderstanding | 10:48 |
| r0kk3rz | talk.maemo.org = tmo | 10:48 |
| r0kk3rz | together.jolla.com = tjc | 10:48 |
| leszek | so a normal forum | 10:48 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ talk.maeomo.org. I wasn't even aware of an diaspora community. Could you link them to me? | 10:48 |
| King_DuckZ | imo, you guys (community) are keeping stuff too hidden into the circles were regular users don't usually go | 10:48 |
| King_DuckZ | jakibaki: just search for the #jolla tag, or #sailfishos even | 10:49 |
| leszek | no need to rush anything. Just wait until the image is out | 10:49 |
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| r0kk3rz | King_DuckZ: where would you say 'regular users' most frequent? | 10:49 |
| King_DuckZ | iono... the jolla blog, diaspora... twitter? I don't go to twitter, but surely other people do | 10:50 |
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| r0kk3rz | the blog is pretty horrible... | 10:51 |
| r0kk3rz | twattr is ok | 10:51 |
| King_DuckZ | I know, but still there's lots of people asking stuff there, not on irc | 10:52 |
| r0kk3rz | and Jaymzz does a good job at fielding questions on the blog, realistically the questions are directed at jolla and not the community there | 10:52 |
| jakibaki | I'll also post the link to the tmo guide to tjc at launch but I want to keep most of the discussion of it at tmo. | 10:53 |
| King_DuckZ | r0kk3rz: he does, but being an employee, I'm sure he can't say as much as he would like to, like clearing up this linux misunderstanding for example | 10:53 |
| King_DuckZ | jakibaki: please do keep me updated when you do (pvt message is fine), I'll reshare on diaspora | 10:54 |
| jakibaki | God diaspora is confusing D: | 10:54 |
| r0kk3rz | im not sure there is much of a misunderstanding, the 'official' way is still windows | 10:55 |
| King_DuckZ | yeah, social networks... people talking about everything and nothing, tagging random stuff :p | 10:55 |
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| King_DuckZ | r0kk3rz: the misunderstanding is that up to 10 minutes ago I thought there was no other way than the official way, like impossible with linux, sorry, go buy a microsoft pc | 10:56 |
| King_DuckZ | r0kk3rz: yet there is a guide being written that proves the opposite | 10:56 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ: sledges already posted an other linux-way on the HADK page but I'd argue that using the open source flashtool is a much much better way. | 10:57 |
| r0kk3rz | King_DuckZ: sure. give us a chance :P the proper images are not even available yet | 10:57 |
| King_DuckZ | hadk? | 10:57 |
| jakibaki | Hardware Adaption Kit | 10:57 |
| jakibaki | The "tutorial" for community builds | 10:57 |
| King_DuckZ | euh... that's another very specific forum, I doubt my mum has an account there either ;) | 10:58 |
| r0kk3rz | its not a forum, its a wiki on sailfishos.org | 10:58 |
| r0kk3rz | https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Sailfish_X_Build_and_Flash#The_Linux_Way | 10:59 |
| r0kk3rz | but i agree that jakibaki's way is simpler, and in line with the windows way | 11:00 |
| King_DuckZ | yes w/e, non-technical people don't have accounts on github, tjc, tmo, don't go to irc, the only wiki the know about is wikipedia - information in those places need be reachable from generic places | 11:00 |
| jakibaki | sledges_ should really consider adding the hint that installing the update via flashtool works just fine. | 11:01 |
| King_DuckZ | what I can do is I'll ping you guys here more often and share w/e I find out on diaspora | 11:01 |
| r0kk3rz | King_DuckZ: if you have a jolla account for your device, you have a tjc account... | 11:02 |
| r0kk3rz | all of those places are public, and you dont need an account to view | 11:02 |
| King_DuckZ | r0kk3rz: it doesn't matter, non-technical people will never go there on their own, in fact they don't even know that place exists and you can't blame them | 11:03 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ: to be fair non-technical people won't even know of the existence of Sailfish OS | 11:04 |
| r0kk3rz | non-technical people probably shouldnt venture off the beaten path :P | 11:04 |
| r0kk3rz | and as such, if they want help from jolla when it all goes badly, you use the jolla instructions | 11:04 |
| King_DuckZ | r0kk3rz: imagine if your lawyer told you duh dude you didn't know this law?? it's written all over in the books in the national library and people in the lawyers club speak about it all the time in the garden | 11:05 |
| r0kk3rz | King_DuckZ: interesting analogy, i dont think this fits :P | 11:05 |
| King_DuckZ | there https://mondiaspora.net/posts/dbb182d08034013562d041d6b74e365c | 11:06 |
| King_DuckZ | do you honestly think these guys will ever go to a sailfishos wiki? :D | 11:06 |
| King_DuckZ | they're sfos users nonetheless | 11:06 |
| r0kk3rz | no, but i dont really care :) | 11:07 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ: those user also won't have any problem with using windows for install Sailfish X | 11:07 |
| r0kk3rz | non-technical people probably shouldnt be running random instructions they found on the internet, thats not a good habit for them | 11:08 |
| King_DuckZ | r0kk3rz: being a programmer myself I understand what you're saying, but from the outside it feels like you're being snobbish, and that's not going to help sfos imo | 11:08 |
| r0kk3rz | i expect most of them have a technically oriented friend to help them | 11:08 |
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| King_DuckZ | hm true true | 11:08 |
| r0kk3rz | im not trying to be an elitist, its just a simple matter of who do they turn to for help | 11:09 |
| r0kk3rz | if its a friend, maybe the friend knows. if they have no such friend they need to turn to jolla | 11:09 |
| King_DuckZ | but guys, the hard facts is that there are linux users expressing their disappointment on the jolla blog | 11:09 |
| King_DuckZ | you still can't expect every single user to actively follow irc and all the sfos-specific circles | 11:10 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah and elsewhere as well, people like to complain about stuff | 11:11 |
| King_DuckZ | r0kk3rz: if you read my own post, I'm not complaining, but still nobody gave me an acceptable answer (other than install windows) | 11:12 |
| r0kk3rz | anyway, you're being premature. we have no image download yet, so how can we have good instructions that non-technical people can follow? | 11:12 |
| leszek | a complain is a hidden message that "they care" so the appriopiate answer would be "we listen to you and improve" | 11:12 |
| King_DuckZ | yep | 11:13 |
| r0kk3rz | leszek: their complaints are usually directed at jolla, so its their place to answer them | 11:15 |
| leszek | that is true | 11:15 |
| leszek | and thats what I am complaining since the beginning. Jolla has no one who understands public relations | 11:15 |
| leszek | James maybe but he has to less to say in terms of PR | 11:15 |
| King_DuckZ | either way, as I said I can try and spread info a bit, but please *please* don't assume that everybody should just know where to look for stuff | 11:16 |
| r0kk3rz | that would involve people being active in places they currently do not care about | 11:17 |
| r0kk3rz | i dont see that happening | 11:17 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ I think diaspora is about the last place noobs go though :p | 11:17 |
| King_DuckZ | leszek: I expect sony to get very upset (and you know they maintain an army of lawyers) if jolla officially stated something that sony expressely forbid | 11:18 |
| r0kk3rz | i dont think they did 'expressely forbid' again, its about the help chain :) | 11:18 |
| King_DuckZ | r0kk3rz: sorry but I think that's a mistake | 11:18 |
| r0kk3rz | user -> jolla -> sony, they each have what they 'officially support' | 11:19 |
| King_DuckZ | jakibaki: maybe, but I'm not on facebook/twitter, so that's the best I can do | 11:19 |
| r0kk3rz | sony arent going to support a tool developed by a third-party | 11:19 |
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| r0kk3rz | jolla, if they want sony's support, are going to support the things that sony support | 11:20 |
| King_DuckZ | r0kk3rz: sony are pricks, they didn't even know sfos was coming to their device - and where was all the community when they twitted their shameful ignorance? | 11:20 |
| r0kk3rz | huh? that makes no sense | 11:20 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ what? | 11:20 |
| r0kk3rz | to what tweet are you referring? | 11:21 |
| r0kk3rz | alin jerplea, from sony .se, has been involved from the very start | 11:21 |
| leszek | hmm... I think it makes sense for Jolla as a small company with limited amount for resources to focus on one way to support the device(s). The best is to follow what Sony recommends as everything else could make problems in the future | 11:21 |
| King_DuckZ | r0kk3rz: I'll look it up later, but I'm sure somebody (me?) re-shared it on diaspora if you want to look for it | 11:21 |
| King_DuckZ | I'm at work right now | 11:22 |
| r0kk3rz | i dont disapora | 11:22 |
| r0kk3rz | King_DuckZ: anyway, if 'sony are pricks' they wouldnt be letting us do any of this :) | 11:22 |
| leszek | the only thing you can criticize is that Jollas PR said something completely different before then they are doing now | 11:22 |
| King_DuckZ | then wait a bit til lunch break :) | 11:22 |
| r0kk3rz | there would be no sailfish x at all | 11:22 |
| King_DuckZ | jolla is a company and they have their own nda and legal restrictions, the community however has more freedom to speak about "unofficial" stuff | 11:23 |
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| King_DuckZ | https://mondiaspora.net/posts/b043b5d0420f0135df0002f167e849ee | 11:27 |
| r0kk3rz | what exactly is wrong with that? its accurate | 11:28 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ: oh no the pr-department wasn't informed of this very small project by the open devices department... | 11:28 |
| r0kk3rz | there is no 'sailfish os based xperia' and probably wont be, certainly nothing sony has illuded to ever | 11:29 |
| King_DuckZ | it's derogatory, imo | 11:29 |
| r0kk3rz | how? | 11:29 |
| King_DuckZ | and also, how many people actually port an os to xperia?? surely they know about each of them (1? 2?) | 11:30 |
| r0kk3rz | their focus is on android, which should come as no surprise to anyone | 11:30 |
| King_DuckZ | "a device with such software" -> they could've caled it by its name, instead of being like we never heard about this nameless thing | 11:31 |
| r0kk3rz | i think you're reading too much into it | 11:32 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ: Now you're just trying to find problems with that tweet... | 11:32 |
| r0kk3rz | https://developer.sonymobile.com/2017/09/29/sonys-open-devices-amplifies-the-openness-of-sailfish-os/ | 11:32 |
| r0kk3rz | *that* is a statement from sony on Sailfish X | 11:32 |
| King_DuckZ | it could be, yes | 11:32 |
| jakibaki | r0kk3rz: Those comments are even worse than those under the Jolla-Blog :D | 11:33 |
| King_DuckZ | hah so they *do* know | 11:33 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ: That's a different department | 11:33 |
| r0kk3rz | of course they know... they've been involved from the start | 11:33 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ: Unlike Jolla Sony has more than 1 pr person | 11:33 |
| r0kk3rz | we met the sony open device people at FOSDEM :) | 11:34 |
| King_DuckZ | btw the twitter dude is called sonyxperia | 11:34 |
| King_DuckZ | if he doesn't know... | 11:34 |
| King_DuckZ | I still think it's a blunder sony made, not sure why people get so upset when jolla's pr fails, but are all forgiving when sony's pr fails | 11:35 |
| Ingvix | I wonder if there's any realistic hope for sailfish to be officially ported to xperia x performance or should I sell it and just buy the regular xperia | 11:37 |
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| satmd | hm? what did I miss? | 11:39 |
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| r0kk3rz | King_DuckZ: it was a completely accurate statement, i dont really see that as a PR fail at all | 11:55 |
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| flesk__ | Sony made a statement? | 14:37 |
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| flesk__ | I don't think the problem is that information about an unofficial way to flash SailfishX isn't "out there". The problem is more ideological, the way I see it: The only official way to put GNU/Linux on your Linux device is to use Windows. Doesn't feel right to me either way. | 14:42 |
| M4rtinK | flesk__: yep, exactly | 14:42 |
| r0kk3rz | flesk__: do you have an xperia x? have you unlocked its bootloader? | 14:43 |
| M4rtinK | the main problem is bad PR, not insurmountable technical issues | 14:43 |
| flesk__ | r0kk3rz: Yes, I have one, but no, I haven't done anything with it. I was waiting for the official installer. | 14:44 |
| M4rtinK | coupled with the glacial progress with open sourcing the Jolla made parts of Sailfish OS | 14:44 |
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| M4rtinK | makes it sometimes a hard sell to less pragmatical and more FOSS people | 14:45 |
| r0kk3rz | flesk__: ok so *before* unlocking the bootloader, use OTA updates to update all the way (hopefully to version 34.3) | 14:45 |
| r0kk3rz | the theory is once you do that, you shouldnt need Emma/Flashtool to do anything | 14:46 |
| r0kk3rz | but all us porters have already unlocked, so OTA doesnt work anymore, and we cant test it :) | 14:46 |
| flesk__ | r0kk3rz: Thanks, but I'm not sure if I'm going to install Sailfish on it anymore. | 14:47 |
| r0kk3rz | flesk__: as you wish, but it would help us out | 14:48 |
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| flesk__ | r0kk3rz: I'm amazed by the work you porters have done, so my beef definitely isn't with you. Still very disappointed with Jolla and Sony though. | 14:50 |
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| r0kk3rz | flesk__: i really dont understand why, Sony has actually been quite kind to us | 14:50 |
| M4rtinK | the windows only flash tool aside | 14:52 |
| r0kk3rz | the fact that they've helped us at all, for zero gain on their side, is kinda amazing really | 14:52 |
| M4rtinK | the Sony cooperation pretty much exceeded my expectation | 14:52 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: you want sony to release a linux flash tool just for us? | 14:52 |
| r0kk3rz | that would be really nice of them, but... yeah. | 14:52 |
| M4rtinK | like, they have actual Sony engineers they can talk to & who do changes that benefit Sailfish OS | 14:53 |
| M4rtinK | that's pretty huge | 14:53 |
| r0kk3rz | no other company would allow this | 14:53 |
| M4rtinK | hopefully a start of a longer partnership | 14:53 |
| M4rtinK | well, BQ did a lot of custom stuff for Ubuntu Touch, but they were selling the devices to people as well | 14:54 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah, they had a commerical partnership | 14:55 |
| r0kk3rz | i dont think sony is making any money from this, maybe selling a few remaining phones | 14:55 |
| M4rtinK | I fully expected this to be just about making use of the open device program to get a Sailfish OS image installed | 14:57 |
| M4rtinK | so seeing both companies working together is really nice | 14:57 |
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| Ioangogo | Hi, im currently having a issue with the sailfish store on a One Plus one i flashed using magic device tool, when i try and install something it sends a notifcation that it failed to intall, from looking at the store it downloads and then fails, sorry if this is the wrong channel | 15:14 |
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| King_DuckZ | flesk__: I agree, and that's the second blunder from sony: two weeks before the launch of sfos they make this policy that upset sfos users -_- | 15:17 |
| King_DuckZ | it shows that either they don't have a clue about what's going on, or they simply couldn't care less | 15:18 |
| r0kk3rz | King_DuckZ: you misunderstand whats going on, nobody made any 'policy' :P | 15:18 |
| r0kk3rz | we were bending over backwards to flash these blobs in a hacky fashion, Sony comes along and says 'hey we'll make this easy for you' and solves the problem | 15:19 |
| r0kk3rz | thats not a 'blunder' thats being a top bloke | 15:20 |
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| King_DuckZ | from james noori: "The instructions for the new requirement from Sony to Jolla are brand new. That’s what really matters here." | 15:21 |
| King_DuckZ | requirement, policy, call it whatever, it's a new rule that came into effect last week | 15:21 |
| flesk__ | r0kk3rz: It bothers me for the reasons I mentioned. They could have not released an official tool at all, and that would have been better. | 15:22 |
| King_DuckZ | r0kk3rz: being good for telling "now you're required to use windows"? I disagree :/ | 15:23 |
| King_DuckZ | flesk__: +1 | 15:23 |
| r0kk3rz | meh, if you want to hate on a company thats actually being really nice to us, then go ahead | 15:23 |
| King_DuckZ | flesk__: or make it work on linux, make this emma thing open source etc etc | 15:23 |
| King_DuckZ | like the guys from 8bitdo, for example, with their firmware update process | 15:24 |
| flesk__ | At least then they wouldn't have tainted the massive FOSS effort that has gone into this. | 15:24 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ: There already is flashtool which is essentially emma with extra features. | 15:24 |
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| r0kk3rz | flesk__: you do understand that sailfish os is proprietary right?... | 15:24 |
| King_DuckZ | jakibaki: < r0kk3rz> we were bending over backwards to flash these blobs in a hacky fashion | 15:24 |
| jakibaki | It being not endorsed by sony doesn't hurt anyone beyond that they'll have to *shudder* follow unoffical instructions. | 15:25 |
| M-schmittlauch | r0kk3rz: So does this "hack backwards-bending" way of flashing under Linux still work? Or was there a necessity to change the image format? | 15:25 |
| jakibaki | M-schmittlauch: There is a less hacky way to flash on linux by using flashtool :) No need to revert to the old one. | 15:25 |
| r0kk3rz | M-schmittlauch: sledges is maintaining instructions on the sailfishos wiki | 15:26 |
| M-schmittlauch | jakibaki: also good. But probably just not officially supported for manpower & policy reasons, right? | 15:26 |
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| jakibaki | M-schmittlauch: I don't think Sony would like it if Jolla endorsed an unofficial flashtool so yeah. | 15:27 |
| King_DuckZ | jakibaki: I'm all for this "unofficial" way in reality, but it's all over the blog that you *must* use emma, no other option offered | 15:27 |
| King_DuckZ | jakibaki: which brings me back to the discussion we had this morning | 15:27 |
| jakibaki | M-schmittlauch https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/sailfishXGuide (my wip guide of the linux/macOS way) | 15:27 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ: they won't mention an unofficial way because that can be read as an endorsement which could result in people expecting support from Jolla when it turned out that this way causes trouble. | 15:29 |
| King_DuckZ | jakibaki: yes, I understand that part | 15:29 |
| jakibaki | (besides all the legal stuff that I have no idea of) | 15:29 |
| King_DuckZ | the simple way that would have avoided alienating half the users and all the consequent discussions would have been sony saying hey use flashtool on linux or our crappy emma shit on windows! yay everybody happy | 15:31 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah, because sony would support a third-party tool. lol. | 15:31 |
| jakibaki | r0kk3rz an third-party tool which has more features than their first part tool. So even worse. | 15:32 |
| flesk__ | r0kk3rz: Yes, not fully FOSS. | 15:34 |
| flesk__ | I'm fine with that. I use proprietary drivers in my desktop computers too, and I have a RHEL license at work. | 15:35 |
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| flesk__ | Another thing: How many Windows users are likely to be eager to install a new Linux OS? Mostly dual-booters maybe? To me it seems a bit like they're alienating much of their target demographic in favor of a demographic that might not be all that big. Not that it's very mainstream to begin with, of course. | 16:13 |
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| M4rtinK | flesk__: well, RHEL is 100% open source | 16:39 |
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| M4rtinK | flesk__: the ISV provided software running on top might not be, but RHEL is | 16:39 |
| M4rtinK | flesk__: as for Windows users installing a Linux OS on their phones - actually I think that's quite a few people | 16:41 |
| M4rtinK | shockingly maybe even the majority | 16:41 |
| M4rtinK | I think such people might not really see Sailfish OS as Linux/open/etc. | 16:42 |
| M4rtinK | but as an Android alternative | 16:42 |
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| M4rtinK | that can still run Android apps, without much of the cruft & privacy issues | 16:42 |
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| flesk__ | M4rtinK: Yeah, I'm probably completely out of touch because that's another thing I just don't understand: How can people be privacy sensitive and/or against DRM and still have no problem with Windows? | 16:54 |
| flesk__ | I mean beyond making Facebook groups about their concerns, etc. | 16:54 |
| jakibaki | flesk__: A lot of people only use their computer for gaming and do the sensitive stuff on phone+tablets. | 16:57 |
| M4rtinK | jakibaki: same PoV | 17:02 |
| M4rtinK | there is a lot of sensitive stuff on a phone you might not have on a PC | 17:03 |
| M4rtinK | photos | 17:03 |
| M4rtinK | adress book/phone numbers | 17:03 |
| M4rtinK | even emails if you use webmail on PC, as people are more likely to use native app on mobile for email | 17:03 |
| flesk__ | M4rtinK: I hadn't thought of that, but that makes sense. | 17:04 |
| flesk__ | It doesn't apply to most of those people I know though, but I can image it's true for a lot of people. | 17:05 |
| M4rtinK | I'm not that well versed in how the XDA developers community works | 17:05 |
| M4rtinK | but IIRC a lot of them use Windows on desktop as well | 17:06 |
| M4rtinK | there are instructions for Windows, etc. | 17:06 |
| r0kk3rz | not everyone is all about the privacy, some of us just want to hack about with stuff | 17:08 |
| r0kk3rz | privacy is a battle we lost a long time ago | 17:08 |
| M4rtinK | well, that doesn't mean things can't be improved | 17:09 |
| M4rtinK | & made as hard as possible to people wanting to profit from the data gathered | 17:09 |
| M4rtinK | eq. why make it easy for them | 17:10 |
| M4rtinK | that's one reason why I like the new Sailfish OS subscription model | 17:10 |
| M4rtinK | where you pay upfront instead of basically paying with your personal data as with Android and iOS | 17:11 |
| r0kk3rz | you'd basically have to live like stallman, and most people arent prepared to do that | 17:11 |
| M4rtinK | I'm not saying you have to be as extreme as he is | 17:11 |
| M4rtinK | just that it's a topic that should not be ignored | 17:12 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe, but most people are already owned several times over that they basically stopped caring | 17:13 |
| M4rtinK | another thing good about the subscription model IMHO is | 17:14 |
| M4rtinK | that it motivates the OS vendor to keep supporting older hardware | 17:14 |
| M4rtinK | as long as there are subscribers on it | 17:14 |
| M4rtinK | vs the normal model where you just want to sell a new device and not updating the old device is a good way to achieve that | 17:15 |
| r0kk3rz | will enough people keep paying for it to be worth jollas while? | 17:20 |
| r0kk3rz | people that are clearly easily upset and engage boycott mode, which obviously gets them what they want :) | 17:20 |
| M4rtinK | that will certainly be interesting to see | 17:21 |
| M4rtinK | there is certainly quite some demand | 17:21 |
| M4rtinK | given how IIRC the idea of basically selling officially supported images for third party hardware was kinda frowned upon | 17:22 |
| M4rtinK | "who would want that ?", etc. | 17:22 |
| M4rtinK | "it's too complicated" | 17:22 |
| M4rtinK | etc. etc. | 17:22 |
| r0kk3rz | 'quite some demand' how would you estimate this? | 17:23 |
| r0kk3rz | 10s? 100s? 1000s? | 17:23 |
| M4rtinK | 1) lot's of new faces on IRC/together/talk.maemo.org | 17:23 |
| tbr | meeeeelions </drevil> | 17:23 |
| M4rtinK | 2) capacity problems when Jolla started the Sailfish X website | 17:24 |
| M4rtinK | 3) quite a few articles on random tech sites | 17:24 |
| r0kk3rz | there wasnt capacity problems, there was a region block problem :) | 17:24 |
| M4rtinK | nothing really conclusive, but still | 17:24 |
| M4rtinK | I know | 17:24 |
| M4rtinK | but it went down a few times before that | 17:24 |
| M4rtinK | also the account server | 17:24 |
| M4rtinK | IIRC | 17:25 |
| r0kk3rz | probably just pketo | 17:25 |
| M4rtinK | Slashdot effect :) | 17:25 |
| pketo | what? | 17:25 |
| r0kk3rz | pketo: sorry, just idly speculating :) | 17:26 |
| M4rtinK | it used to be that website wold crumble under load when mentioned on Slashdot | 17:26 |
| M4rtinK | => Slashdot effect :) | 17:26 |
| r0kk3rz | hasnt been like that for years though, now its all about the reddit hug | 17:26 |
| M4rtinK | same thing basically | 17:26 |
| M4rtinK | but the modern CDN often spoil the fun | 17:27 |
| M4rtinK | in any case at least from my experience | 17:27 |
| M4rtinK | some people I know who have always been interested in Sailfish OS | 17:27 |
| M4rtinK | but were not using it yet due to bad hardware availability | 17:28 |
| M4rtinK | are getting Xperias to run Sailfish OS on it :) | 17:28 |
| r0kk3rz | id certainly be curious to see numbers | 17:29 |
| M4rtinK | yeah | 17:29 |
| r0kk3rz | but from what ive seen its still 10s, not 100s | 17:29 |
| M4rtinK | I guess Jolla Store/OpenRepos stats might give a clue | 17:29 |
| M4rtinK | https://openrepos.net/statistics/global | 17:30 |
| M4rtinK | you can watch for peaks | 17:30 |
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| King_DuckZ | hello again | 19:24 |
| King_DuckZ | is it ok if I get an operator locked xperia? or does it have to be unlocked? | 19:24 |
| r0kk3rz | unlocked | 19:25 |
| King_DuckZ | hmm too bad, this one looked super nice http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-Xperia-X-F5121-32GB-Rose-Gold-EE-Smartphone-/322805987708?epid=222435059&hash=item4b28bc797c:g:zzUAAOSwCmNZ1NA0 | 19:26 |
| King_DuckZ | but the dude says he's not sure if it's locked or not | 19:26 |
| King_DuckZ | :( | 19:26 |
| jakibaki | King_DuckZ: Ask him to do this: https://pastebin.com/raw/HN2WyEck | 19:27 |
| King_DuckZ | jakibaki: ok | 19:29 |
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| King_DuckZ | sent | 19:33 |
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| korak | So there any place to go for info about running this on other phones or is it pretty much the Jolla and xperia only? | 20:21 |
| coderus | korak: what dis? | 20:22 |
| korak | I was interested in trying to run Sailfish on my LG G3. | 20:23 |
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| r0kk3rz | korak: huh, the only lg phones we have ported are the nexus ones | 20:33 |
| r0kk3rz | korak: do you have lineageos for that device? | 20:34 |
| korak | Yeah, I am running lineageos currently. | 20:34 |
| korak | In looking around I kind of got the impression sailfish probably wasn't ported to the G3 | 20:35 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah if you have lineage 13 or 14 you can try building it yourself | 20:36 |
| r0kk3rz | #sailfishos-porters is the porting channel | 20:37 |
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| flesk__ | According to a few sources, including ModMy (https://www.modmy.com/sailfish-x-store-now-open-business), Emma is a Java-application. Doesn't seem like it would require a huge effort from Sony to officially support Linux (and Mac) then? | 22:36 |
| jakibaki | flesk__: I don't think using java makes porting much easier with low-level stuff. | 22:51 |
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