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| chem|st | any browser devs reading me? would you look into disabling JS calling while browser is minimized?! drained my battery from 90-10% in 4h - pretty please :) | 11:35 |
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| urjaman | do note that one can be using the browser in some fashion even when it is "minimized" eg. listening to a video, or potentially waiting for notification sound of some kind ... | 12:05 |
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| urjaman | actually a very major use of the browser for me is to play youtube in the background ... | 12:05 |
| r0kk3rz | urjaman: theres an app for that | 12:06 |
| r0kk3rz | but for everyone person that wants the browser to stop whilst minimised, there will be another who wants it to keep going | 12:06 |
| urjaman | yeah and most of them suck | 12:06 |
| r0kk3rz | that much is certain | 12:06 |
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| chem|st | urjaman: youtube is no JS | 12:08 |
| r0kk3rz | true, but i wonder if you went to youtube with noscript on whether it would still work | 12:09 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: html5 yt should work iirc | 12:10 |
| urjaman | pretty sure disabling JS while playing the video would eventually cause some kind of issue... playlists? i dunno... | 12:10 |
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| urjaman | and i meant it just as an example where the browser should keep going... i'm sure there are JS-only examples of that too... | 12:11 |
| chem|st | so it needs to check if the website has/needs sound or not, my desktop browser now shows playback on the tab it is coming from with a speaker symbol so there is a way to determine that! | 12:12 |
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| urjaman | chem|st: but does your facebook tab have "sound" icon all the time? (i assume no) still, it could make a sound suddenly... | 12:13 |
| chem|st | urjaman: which part of notifications you don't need didn't you understand? | 12:13 |
| chem|st | :D | 12:13 |
| urjaman | okay i'll go, i just dont want f'ing freezing apps | 12:14 |
| chem|st | well I know there are use cases but heavy js sites will drain the battery, hell even fb drains the battery | 12:14 |
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| urjaman | if i dont want the site to run, i dont have the browser open | 12:14 |
| r0kk3rz | chem|st: should, and does, are sometimes two different things | 12:15 |
| chem|st | urjaman: me neither but the batterydrain is an issue, and avg joe is annoyed | 12:15 |
| chem|st | urjaman: yeah so true, but tell that to avg joe | 12:16 |
| urjaman | i do think the device needs a better battery use rate indication ... (I'd personally even take a "suspend" button, but people...) | 12:16 |
| chem|st | but multitasking!! | 12:16 |
| chem|st | urjaman: so a possible solution would be? | 12:17 |
| urjaman | I mean it does suspend automatically with the wakelock stuff when possible, but I'd want to force it to do so even when it doesnt see it as possible... | 12:17 |
| chem|st | ah yeah like, double-pwr-btn, hard-suspend | 12:17 |
| chem|st | freeze active covers until returning from suspend <- like that? | 12:19 |
| chem|st | I'd very much like to have that default on actively turning into suspend, and only not doing it when it goes through autosuspend | 12:20 |
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| r0kk3rz | chem|st: dont fall into the mistake of projecting yourself onto average joe | 12:30 |
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| chem|st | r0kk3rz: oh avg joe wouldn't want that, avg joe does not want to think about it and have 90% battery all day long :D | 12:38 |
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| chem|st | r0kk3rz: avg joe does not want the battery drained, so a slution that keeps stuff like fb notifications possible but halts js when there is no sounds pipe | 12:40 |
| chem|st | or something alike, I have no clue about notifications from websites | 12:40 |
| r0kk3rz | chem|st: average joe has many things running and destroys the battery anyway | 12:41 |
| chem|st | and yes, I missed to kill the browser, as I did not think of it, but I do not want to need to think of it actually, just like avg joe | 12:41 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: lol | 12:41 |
| r0kk3rz | i know many people who do not charge their phone until it forcibly turns off | 12:42 |
| r0kk3rz | and they keep turning it back on until it wont | 12:42 |
| r0kk3rz | and then charge it | 12:42 |
| r0kk3rz | despite me telling them that this harms the battery | 12:42 |
| ttyp0 | hmm, wonder how Apple handles notifications because there's like no noticeable battery drain despite getting notifications from FB, Twitter, Instagram etc | 12:42 |
| r0kk3rz | ttyp0: they have a push notification service that handles this | 12:43 |
| ttyp0 | well, then again I haven't tried disabling them to see if they have an impact | 12:43 |
| r0kk3rz | not js running in the background | 12:43 |
| r0kk3rz | chem|st: but i certainly know many people who are always chained to a power outlet whenever they can with their android phones | 12:44 |
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| ttyp0 | would something similar be possible with Jolla? | 12:47 |
| ttyp0 | a push notification service | 12:48 |
| ttyp0 | sry, with sailfish | 12:48 |
| r0kk3rz | ttyp0: yep for sure, im running one atm | 12:50 |
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| pavi | chem|st: Avg joe who comes from android world should learn about real multi tasking where app actually runs on background. If he wants no drain he should kill the app and when he opens it again anyways the session gets restored. Doesn't it serve the usecase? | 17:44 |
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| pavi | chem|st: I use webcat which IMHO is a much better browser and guess what I was surprised to find that it comes preloaded with a button to download youtube videos. I don't remember adding an extension for it. | 17:46 |
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| chem|st | pavi: yeah sure, just some days I'd like to have more of a gesture to freeze a cover,or activate forced suspend on pwrbutton or alike, make it a feature not a burden | 18:35 |
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| pavi | chem|st: yeah freezing a cover is also not a bad idea. Maybe a TJC post with feature-request tag? | 18:58 |
| chem|st | pavi: go on, collect some karma ;) | 18:59 |
| pavi | chem|st: I would have got lot of karma. One day I deleted cookies and am not logging on to TJC. Maybe since november. I wasn't so happy with the tablet crowd and the tablet centric design or discussions. | 19:00 |
| chem|st | pavi: waht tablet centric design, there is nothing you see on phone that is related to any tablet design | 19:02 |
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| pavi | chem|st: How SFOS 2.0 was tailored to satisfy tablet/android newbies. I am still on 1.x and will miss security updates :( | 19:03 |
| chem|st | pavi: the 2.0 was not tailored to fit the tablet, sadly, only the events-view and the settings are refitted | 19:04 |
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| chem|st | pavi: after some time you live with it, an some things are actually stuff you get used to once the muscle memory (re)builds | 19:05 |
| pavi | chem|st: I still want the argument on what I would miss being on 1.x , as of now I guess some dependencies for libraries. | 19:05 |
| smyru | Is there some sort of compiled QML cache? | 19:05 |
| smyru | I've been tinkering with Calendar QML files by enabling Agenda view according to https://together.jolla.com/question/50575/wiki-how-to-enable-agenda-view-in-jolla-calendar/ | 19:06 |
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| pavi | I belong to the guys who still use Debian wheezy which was old stable because I hate big changes. | 19:06 |
| chem|st | pavi: settings-shortcuts on events, new events, less battery consumption, less performance glitches | 19:06 |
| pavi | maybe I am wrong still using 1.x , I am still waiting for official 2.1.x release and hope all patches get mainstream | 19:06 |
| smyru | Looks like I went one stepp to far by trying to make agenda view the default in /usr/share/jolla-calendar/calendar.qml | 19:06 |
| smyru | And the calendar won't start anymore even with the patches removed | 19:07 |
| pavi | chem|st: Happy with battery and frankly not a big fan of notifications esp from android apps. | 19:07 |
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| chem|st | pavi: I would kind of merge 1.0 and 2.0 ui | 19:08 |
| chem|st | pavi: events is not only about facebook ttwitter and other thigns I do not have either... no android notifications ever | 19:09 |
| pavi | Another reason not to upgrade was that lot of Jolla team left and are not coming back and it is not releasing a "real update" but just showing new version numbers. | 19:09 |
| pavi | When the real upgrade comes from Jolla with visible changes then I will upgrade. | 19:09 |
| chem|st | pavi: ehrm 2.0.1 is lots of bugfixes | 19:10 |
| chem|st | with two month delay though | 19:10 |
| chem|st | pavi: so on that I can call BS | 19:10 |
| pavi | chem|st: Yeah having bug fixes is great. If I am on 2.0.0 I would definitely go to 2.0.1 but since I am on old stable branch of 1.x I guess and its a big guess wont be needing bug fixes. | 19:11 |
| pavi | Having said that last 6 months in linux world we had major vulnerabilities and any sane person should upgrade. | 19:12 |
| chem|st | pavi: another BS the core system bugfixes do fix things way back, I think there are even things fixed from a year ago | 19:12 |
| chem|st | pavi: yes and that, security fixes should be the core reason to be up to date with any system, as soon as old-stable does not get security upgrades you should move on or start patching yourself! | 19:13 |
| pavi | chem|st: then thats a good reason. I accept I am ignorant about all real changes. I am actually asking for the good I mean real good reasons to upgrade. Its always bad to get stuck in old versions with no prospects. | 19:13 |
| pavi | I agree completely as of now thinking of waiting till 2.1.0 releases | 19:14 |
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| pavi | any idea whats planned for 2.1 roadmap ? | 19:14 |
| chem|st | pavi: with turing and intex starting to pay fees some day soon, lets hope it will speed up the process | 19:15 |
| pavi | chem|st: My guess is they will pay like a % fees / device sold. We all are still waiting for device sale. | 19:16 |
| pavi | Hope they make Fairphone add on to install alien dalvik support paid so that they have that business. | 19:16 |
| chem|st | pavi: roadmap was said to be updated some day soon, someone was working on catching up, don't put a tag on 2.1. guess you will see some more usability upgrades for core apps this year | 19:16 |
| chem|st | pavi: don't know any details about FP2 but I think it is in the workings to get an officially supported sfos, incl maps,mfe,alien | 19:17 |
| chem|st | pavi: lets wait MWC, jolla had nothing to say yet and I guess they will make an announcement there | 19:18 |
| pavi | maps is a joke, I used Osmand and was like wow this should be the default app. Hope they put some money to port it to Qt | 19:18 |
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| chem|st | pavi: if you cannot pay an upgrade to the full exp it is a joke yes | 19:19 |
| pavi | MWC will have intex releasing | 19:19 |
| chem|st | pavi: I do not know why they do not cut a deal with here, also in terms of marketing - native full blown offline here would make a huge selling point | 19:20 |
| pavi | chem|st: I see you actively commenting on roadmap issues at TJC ;) | 19:20 |
| chem|st | pavi: yeah intex is not jolla | 19:20 |
| chem|st | pavi: where? yeah in some meeting it was said by a sailor that someone was working on it to get updated | 19:21 |
| pavi | chem|st: after the funding debacle at as far as we know Intex is the best thing Jolla could show. Maybe better localised Sailfish os with indian language stuff and apps | 19:21 |
| pavi | https://together.jolla.com/question/126943/regulary-updates-again/ | 19:21 |
| pavi | https://together.jolla.com/question/126970/monthy-roadmap-updates-sw-updates/?answer=126974#post-id-126974 | 19:22 |
| chem|st | pavi: jolla is not showing off intex phone, intex will showcase their phone, what jolla will announce noone knows yet | 19:22 |
| chem|st | pavi: those release questions while legit, are returning questions every early-access, when will it be released, what is to expect please tell us the exact day and time we will get it! | 19:23 |
| pavi | lets wait, I hope they have something to show. Normally MWC announcements get a lot of press coverage. Its an opporunity they don't want to miss. | 19:23 |
| chem|st | pavi: I am sure of that, and I guess three companies will showcase sfos besides jolla | 19:24 |
| pavi | https://sailfishos.org/developmentroadmap/ shows only 2015 updates :( | 19:24 |
| chem|st | FP Turing and Intex, and maybe Jolla has a third player in the game, who knows | 19:24 |
| chem|st | pavi: that did not get updated as the person who did it had A no time for it B got laid off C both, and a new one is working on it | 19:25 |
| chem|st | pavi: and the roadmap was just a neat way to show what is in the workings, nice read but who does really care, when it is done it is done ;) | 19:26 |
| pavi | chem|st: yeah communicating with community is one of the biggest weakness and strengths of Jolla. Sometimes they do awesome with very personalised one to one answers. Sometimes like now its silence | 19:27 |
| chem|st | pavi: you need to read meeting minutes, not really silence there | 19:28 |
| chem|st | pavi: and biggest weakness? they talk with the community, others just don't ever | 19:29 |
| pavi | its a weakness cause they set the bar so high themselves and the community is kept waiting | 19:30 |
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| chem|st | yes, indeed, the promise was maybe a thing wrongly placed as you need the manpower to fullfill it, they do not actually have - well enough "politics" for me | 19:31 |
| pavi | chem|st: you and probably me would read meeting minutes but there is fundemental responsiblity with a distribution if it believes in "people powered" to be really communicative. I understand after cybette has gone no one has replaced her. :( | 19:31 |
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| Stskeeps | really hard to find a replacement for her | 19:36 |
| pavi | +1 Redhat is lucky | 19:37 |
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| chem|st | pavi: indeed | 19:38 |
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| Stskeeps | not to mention the worst thing you can do is rush into finding somebody that's in charge of managing your community angle | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | (i'm very intentionally not writing 'managing your community') | 19:41 |
| urjaman | :) | 19:42 |
| pavi | Stskeeps: maybe someone who just does simple tasks like copying from meeting minutes and pasting it on sailfishos website. Someone with writing skills to write regular blog posts. comment and redirect to correct people. Maybe an intern? | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | let's start with getting good documentation as a start and take a fresh look at sailfishos.org first :) | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | but now time for me to dig further into some blockchain videos.. | 19:45 |
| pavi | Stskeeps: I agree , baby steps. I remember asking about documentation when I met cybette at fosdem2015 | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 19:45 |
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| smyru | Where are local calendar files in the backup? I'm failing to locate them | 19:53 |
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| smyru | Just realized calendar isn't backed up... | 20:07 |
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| Stskeeps | smyru: 'mkcal' might be a hint | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | in backup? not sure | 20:08 |
| smyru | Stskeeps: it's talked here: https://together.jolla.com/question/129402/app-request-calendar-backup/ | 20:09 |
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| fferner | Has anyone seen this problem before: trying to install patchmanager (on early update 2.0.1.7) and get the error that it fails to find groff during the install ("File ./core/armv7hl/groff-1.18.1.4-1.1.13.armv7hl.rpm not found on medium 'https://releases.jolla.com/releases/2.0.1.7/jolla/armv7hl/'") | 21:09 |
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| chem|st | smyru: no backup, someone needs to write a plugin for the vault | 22:44 |
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