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| goglosh | helllo | 00:22 |
|---|---|---|
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| tortoisedoc | hrm hrm | 07:22 |
| tortoisedoc | what is the latest update ? :) | 07:22 |
| * tortoisedoc is experiencing SFOS bleeding edge withdrawal symptoms | 07:23 | |
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| * Armadillo waits for the guy who made Spritradar to merge his pull request | 07:32 | |
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| Stskeeps | do we have any RSVP / speed reading like spritz apps on sailfishos? | 07:34 |
| Armadillo | what does RSVP stand for? | 07:37 |
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| Stskeeps | rapid serial visual representation | 07:38 |
| urjaman | ok, i didnt expect that. | 07:40 |
| Armadillo | thx^^ | 07:41 |
| Stskeeps | http://glance.wtf/ , try clicking one | 07:41 |
| stephg | I just love that there is a tld wtf (which I did not know) | 07:41 |
| urjaman | O.O | 07:44 |
| * Stskeeps assumes urjaman just discovered RSVP | 07:44 | |
| Stskeeps | :P | 07:44 |
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| urjaman | yes, apparently i'm able to read that fast... though i stored none of it. | 07:45 |
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| Stskeeps | urjaman: probably too high wpm initially | 07:46 |
| urjaman | also i'm not interested in russian airstrikes in syria, that might affect it too | 07:47 |
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| Stskeeps | i personally read in chunks of four and that works for me | 07:50 |
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| zGrr | moin :) | 08:26 |
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| SHIHUA | noon | 08:28 |
| SHIHUA | it is afternoon now | 08:29 |
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| Hartzi | 10:31 am in finland | 08:31 |
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| urjaman | i was just going to note that it is silly to argue about time in irc because timezones it is always morning somewhere | 08:34 |
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| SHIHUA | it's 16:00 | 08:37 |
| SHIHUA | here | 08:37 |
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| mvaenskae | cheers, i am writing about sailfishOS and was so far assuming it only was developed by jolla but there seems to be a lot more going on that i was thinking | 12:38 |
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| mvaenskae | can someone lend me a hand and tell me to whom SailfishOS belongs? :) | 12:38 |
| stephg | mvaenskae: it's complicted :D | 12:38 |
| mvaenskae | that's what i am experiencing :) | 12:39 |
| mvaenskae | i guess it's similiar to google and android; google bought android but over the years has exchanged many core components from AOSP and created that android as the defacto-standard | 12:39 |
| mvaenskae | is it the same for sailfish? | 12:40 |
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| tortoisedoc | mvaenskae : which other developers are you aware of? :) | 12:40 |
| stephg | mvaenskae: it's somewhat different to that | 12:41 |
| mvaenskae | tortoisedoc: reading the wikipedia entry it seems to imply jolla is using sailfishOS and combines it with blobs to create their own sailfishOS version but they contribute their open source parts back | 12:42 |
| Stskeeps | huh :) | 12:42 |
| Yaniel | SailfishOS is basically Jolla's rebranded Mer/nemo | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | a sailfishOS device sw is = sailfishos ui + mer project + a hardware adaptation from a ODM | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | and a couple of 3rd party bits on top like alien dalvik, input methods, etc | 12:43 |
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| mvaenskae | ODM? | 12:44 |
| Stskeeps | original device manufacturer | 12:44 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: given the diagram on the bottom of the page, what parts are included in sailfishOS out of the box? https://sailfishos.org/about/ | 12:45 |
| Stskeeps | define 'out of the box' :) | 12:45 |
| mvaenskae | meaning if i as a private user were to download the sources and install them, what can i expect :) | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | you'd get everything in green | 12:46 |
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| Stskeeps | in practice we allow people to put sailfishos on ported devices non-commercially, too | 12:46 |
| mvaenskae | the hardware adaption layer is missing completely i guess | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | kinda | 12:46 |
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| Stskeeps | it depends from device to device | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | so that means you'd get everything but android runtime, activesync and text prediction engine | 12:47 |
| stephg | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/index.php?title=Adaptations/libhybris | 12:47 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: is there somewhere a gitrepo i can browse the code? :) | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: https://git.merproject.org/mer-core | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | plus | 12:47 |
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| Stskeeps | https://github.com/sailfishos/ | 12:48 |
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| Stskeeps | if you're really bored, grab one of these: http://releases.sailfishos.org/sources/ | 12:48 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: which part of the graphic is composed of mer? | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | for full oss parts | 12:48 |
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| tbr | mvaenskae: note that significant parts of sailfishOS are closed source and proprietary to jolla, even if they grant hobbyists a license for using those on device adaptations | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | yes, what tbrsaid | 12:49 |
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| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: https://sailfishos.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Sailfish_Architecture_v0.5.1.png - see the blue logo? | 12:49 |
| tbr | which means that those bits are available as binaries only, or if they are in an interpreted language like JS or QML they are still proprietary and contributions are not possible | 12:49 |
| mvaenskae | so one can use those but cannot without extensive REing (and maybe breaking the law) understand their inner workings | 12:49 |
| tbr | correct | 12:50 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: yes | 12:50 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: that's the area | 12:50 |
| tbr | the whole Mer/Nemo bits are also not really in a great shape IMHO | 12:50 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: so mer is the SailfishOS core? | 12:50 |
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| mvaenskae | thanks for helping me out with the core bits; i am trying to make a decent writeup on SailfishOS with respect to FOSS | 12:52 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: pretty much, with some different hashes in use, some parts of mer it doesn't use | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: the hope is that the situation gets better but it's not atm | 12:53 |
| mvaenskae | it is looking rather dark for FOSS on jolla? | 12:53 |
| mvaenskae | *due to | 12:54 |
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| tbr | mvaenskae: to put it bluntly, they were too busy to keep their ship from sinking to care much | 12:54 |
| tbr | recently we've seen some positive things, like the mer/nemo epic merge moving forward | 12:54 |
| tbr | you might want to take into consideration, that there are many open source replacements for closed components in the form of the Nemomobile project | 12:55 |
| mvaenskae | what is mer and nemo in the sailfish context? :) mer seems to be the middle layer between hardware and UI (background services and such) | 12:55 |
| tbr | mer is the "essentials" | 12:55 |
| mvaenskae | mer seems to be a base linux system to me :) | 12:56 |
| tbr | nemomobile used to be the "middleware" and "open source UI" | 12:56 |
| tbr | yes | 12:56 |
| mvaenskae | excluding firmware blobs | 12:56 |
| tbr | mer is completely open source and GPLv3-free AFAIU | 12:56 |
| tbr | Stskeeps will be able to confirm that | 12:56 |
| mvaenskae | gplv3 and closed blobs? | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | only (l)gplv3 free in what needs to go on a device to function | 12:57 |
| mvaenskae | i would say lpgl can only apply for that | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | and sure, you can have (l)gplv3 software in a system without having to give out all the sources for everything on it | 12:57 |
| tbr | gplv3 free means: gplv2 only for everything on devices due to embedded world being rather cautious and avoiding the gplv3 landmines | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | just need to provide installation information on how to replace the (l)gplv3 tree | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | er, component | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | rest comes under system exception typically | 12:58 |
| tbr | yes | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: it's actually surprisingily hard to make a non-android mobile OS that does 60fps and low footprint, so | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | hence why it looks like a normal linux system | 12:58 |
| mvaenskae | alright :) i will definitly look up the parts mentioned by you guys and reference all the important websites | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | but it's cut and sliced and diced for that purpose | 12:58 |
| mvaenskae | so jolla is not the main developer is my understanding | 12:59 |
| tbr | mvaenskae: as said, you can look at it from the perspective of Nemomobile, which is a 100% open source mobile device OS. (excluding possible device adaptation badness) | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | well, when you have a normal linux stack; a lot is developed by others | 13:00 |
| tbr | mvaenskae: in practice they are | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | a lot is developed by us, but we take a lot of upstream projecs, like qt | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | or systemd | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | or glibc | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | etc | 13:00 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: us == SailfishOS community ? | 13:00 |
| tbr | mvaenskae: as in, it's mostly the jolla employees who maintain mer/nemo (also because they tend to be the only ones to have access or understanding that mess) | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | as in jolla employees | 13:00 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: ah, so you work for jolla? | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | right | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | it's also historical, since many of us originated in mer/nemo before starting jolla | 13:01 |
| mvaenskae | oh, may i ask your position? :) | 13:01 |
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| Stskeeps | chief research engineer-ish | 13:01 |
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| mvaenskae | that is quite awesome having someone from jolla to talk to for my report in this case | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | i do crazy shit, to be precise | 13:01 |
| iamyinweijian | where | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: many jolla employees are on here | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | also in #jollamobile | 13:02 |
| iamyinweijian | thanks | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: may i ask what you're writing? :P | 13:02 |
| iamyinweijian | who? | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae, somebody else who's in here.. | 13:03 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: groupwork; we are comparing 6 mobile systems in regards to legal and technical openness as well as their respective communities | 13:03 |
| mvaenskae | and sailfish was a must-have per description :) | 13:04 |
| iamyinweijian | 哦 | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: nod | 13:04 |
| iamyinweijian | o | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: you probably want aspects like contribution agreements etc and licenses in use | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | with tizen flora license is one to peek at | 13:04 |
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| mvaenskae | i was a n900 user myself so i know how maemo was doing and read up on all the important stuff but as my n900 broke down and i had to get a replacement before jolla was created i never got to try it out | 13:05 |
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| tortoisedoc | maenskae : I'd assume everything you are recording here is off-record, right? | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | with ubuntu they can at will relicense your submissions, plus the whole http://www.networkworld.com/article/2226367/opensource-subnet/making-sense-of-the-ubuntu-licensing-fiasco.html | 13:05 |
| tortoisedoc | (at least until so stated?) | 13:05 |
| mvaenskae | i am asking for references and feeling that i can search up on the web and cite from there :) | 13:06 |
| tbr | tortoisedoc: the channel being publicly logged, it's rather on record ;) | 13:06 |
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| tortoisedoc | tbr : lolz | 13:06 |
| mvaenskae | tbr: not mentioned in the channel greeting, should be put up there i feel ;) | 13:07 |
| tbr | mvaenskae: you can blame Stskeeps for that | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | it's not in the topic? | 13:08 |
| mvaenskae | i have been long enough with irc that i have to assume every channel is being logged | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | hrm | 13:08 |
| tbr | nope | 13:08 |
| tbr | #jollamobile has it though | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: what was the url again? | 13:08 |
| mvaenskae | either privatly or publicly | 13:08 |
| tbr | merproject.org/logs/foo/bar | 13:08 |
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| tbr | yes, every channel with more than 0 participants is to be considered to be logged ;) | 13:09 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 13:09 | |
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| tigeli | tbr: some IRCops enjoy reading logs from non-existing channels during their freetime ;) | 13:09 |
| *** Stskeeps changes topic to "http://www.sailfishos.org | Developers: https://sailfishos.org/develop/ | Community: https://sailfishos.org/community/ | For friendly Jolla mobile device community: #jollamobile | Logs: http://tinyurl.com/oo7g532" | 13:10 | |
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| mvaenskae | tortoisedoc: may i ask how you came to the conclusion i was recording anything and would disregard requests for removal from the log? :) | 13:10 |
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| tbr | tigeli: yes, hence >0 participants, as the server might be dumping even the ramblings of one client on a channel | 13:10 |
| tortoisedoc | mvaenskae : under the assumption you are writing an article, any information collected might be used in it, unless otherwise stated, no? | 13:10 |
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| tortoisedoc | mvaenskae : just putting things straight, no other reason :) | 13:11 |
| mvaenskae | tortoisedoc: i think referencing an irc-log is not something very reputable :) | 13:11 |
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| tortoisedoc | mvaensake : lolz :) | 13:11 |
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| mvaenskae | how is the app-market set up for sailfish? i guess apps can be installed given the rpm with a simple install command | 13:12 |
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| mvaenskae | tortoisedoc: i am in here asking for directions i can cite and helping me understand some of the graphics :) | 13:13 |
| tbr | mvaenskae: by default there is the jolla store, which is a QA'd app distribution poin | 13:14 |
| tbr | mvaenskae: you can turn on 3rd party apps, which enables you to install random RPMs | 13:14 |
| tbr | including those that will nuke your device into oblivion | 13:14 |
| chem|st | mvaenskae: if you break it you may keep both pieces | 13:15 |
| tbr | then there is the zero-QA, as many apps as possible, super easy for developers, one click binary upload "open repos" thing | 13:15 |
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| mvaenskae | chem|st: you broke the pun :( "if you break it you can keep both halves" would have been better =p | 13:15 |
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| chem|st | mvaenskae: I was quoting, actually | 13:16 |
| tbr | also on the jolla phone with the android runtime, you have various APK stores, yandex, amazon, aptoide, etc | 13:16 |
| tbr | as the android runtime is strictly jolla devices only | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | s/jolla devices/commercial license sailfishos/g | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | +devices | 13:17 |
| mvaenskae | how "up-to-date" is the android runtime? | 13:18 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: which right now is a 100% coverage between both | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | 4.4.4 on tablet, phone 4.1.2 currently, but upgrading | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: at this exact moment :) | 13:18 |
| Hartzi | Stskeeps: upgrading when? :P | 13:19 |
| look_plane | hello hello | 13:19 |
| * tbr guesses: soon™ | 13:19 | |
| urjaman | Stskeeps: the phone android will get an upgrade? thats cool. | 13:19 |
| Stskeeps | Hartzi: probably when we figure out how to avoid needing to delete all user data | 13:19 |
| tbr | same as tablets shipping: soon™ | 13:19 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: so any app not fulfilling minimal support for 4.4.4 will throw an error? | 13:19 |
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| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: right, but most apps really support 4.4 | 13:19 |
| Hartzi | Stskeeps: you can delete my user data. "GIEVB ME UPDATE" :D | 13:19 |
| lainwir3d | yeah, delete all data ! | 13:20 |
| lainwir3d | \o/ | 13:20 |
| urjaman | lol | 13:20 |
| Hartzi | freedom! | 13:20 |
| tortoisedoc | :D | 13:20 |
| tortoisedoc | who needs data anyways | 13:20 |
| lainwir3d | +1 | 13:20 |
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| Yaniel | NSA does | 13:20 |
| tortoisedoc | lets sell our data and buy rum instead | 13:20 |
| lainwir3d | or whisky | 13:20 |
| tortoisedoc | there you go, a buyer for my data:P | 13:21 |
| lainwir3d | or both actually | 13:21 |
| tbr | mmmm spirits | 13:21 |
| Yaniel | +1 for both | 13:21 |
| tortoisedoc | ehm | 13:21 |
| tortoisedoc | both | 13:21 |
| tortoisedoc | but not together, that is | 13:21 |
| tbr | also gin | 13:21 |
| tortoisedoc | hell yes with kurkku | 13:21 |
| lainwir3d | no, one after the other | 13:21 |
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| Yaniel | wait are we talking about buying or drinking | 13:21 |
| tortoisedoc | Yaniel : if you buy, we are talking about drinking:P | 13:21 |
| lainwir3d | Doesn't one imply the other ? :p | 13:21 |
| Yaniel | lainwir3d: it does but not necessarily the time ^^ | 13:22 |
| look_plane | hello everyone.If I want to develop sailfishos, what I should learn | 13:22 |
| tortoisedoc | look_plane : qt | 13:22 |
| Yaniel | C++ | 13:22 |
| tortoisedoc | look_plane : and silica :) | 13:23 |
| mvaenskae | tbr: how is the app-store without QA called btw? | 13:23 |
| lainwir3d | and spirits drinking | 13:23 |
| look_plane | Some knowledge about the hardware operation???? | 13:23 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: thanks again for the version number, found a reference i will cite on that :) | 13:23 |
| tbr | mvaenskae: "jolla store" | 13:24 |
| mvaenskae | tbr: and the QA based store? | 13:24 |
| lainwir3d | Nope, not necessary. But I guess that depends on the app you want to do. | 13:24 |
| tbr | mvaenskae: err, sorry | 13:24 |
| tbr | mvaenskae: Jolla store == QA | 13:24 |
| tbr | mvaenskae: "open repos" == no qa whatsoever, just dump random binaries | 13:24 |
| mvaenskae | those bins can also be uploaded without sources? | 13:25 |
| tortoisedoc | mvaenskae :Yes | 13:26 |
| tbr | there is no way to upload sources AFAIU | 13:26 |
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| tortoisedoc | tbr : isnt there github repo link? | 13:26 |
| * tortoisedoc checks | 13:26 | |
| tbr | tortoisedoc: you can probably put an URL somewhere | 13:27 |
| tbr | doesn't mean, that those are the real sources though | 13:27 |
| tortoisedoc | yeah correct | 13:27 |
| tortoisedoc | you can add in a link in the app's description | 13:27 |
| tortoisedoc | thats all that can be done on openrepos | 13:27 |
| Raim | but even dumping binary and source does not mean you got any QA :-) | 13:28 |
| tbr | then there is also OBS, the open build system (?), which is not an app store per se, but provides trusted relation between sources and the resulting RPM repositories | 13:28 |
| tbr | but due to the need of setting up repositories manually on your device it's not really popular | 13:29 |
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| tbr | also OBS enforces well packaged apps to a degree and many developers just CBA so don't use it | 13:29 |
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| tortoisedoc | makes me wonder how it comes noone thought of giving it more relevance on SFOS? | 13:31 |
| Guest___ | test, please ignore | 13:31 |
| tortoisedoc | like with a dedicated ui blabla | 13:31 |
| *** Guest___ is now known as artemma | 13:31 | |
| mvaenskae | oh, nice | 13:31 |
| mvaenskae | mer sources cannot be viewed :( | 13:31 |
| Stskeeps | huh? | 13:32 |
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| Stskeeps | https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/telepathy-ring/tree/master ? | 13:32 |
| tbr | tortoisedoc: there were attempts, but developer support was close to zero, jolla dragged their feet, no critical mass. efforts folded. | 13:32 |
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| mvaenskae | ahhh, old links in the wiki | 13:32 |
| artemma | Hello guys | 13:32 |
| artemma | Doing my monthly Jolla check :) | 13:32 |
| tortoisedoc | hi artemma | 13:32 |
| tbr | tortoisedoc: it's soo much more convenient if you can just take the RPM from your SDK that you patched to death and dump it on OR. Instead of making it build cleanly on OBS. | 13:33 |
| artemma | Do you happen to know if there are any news about potential app economy or contests or partnerships or something like this? | 13:33 |
| tortoisedoc | tbr : heh | 13:33 |
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| artemma | I mean Intex phones and Jolla tablet are supposed to be out soon, so possibly Jolla and/or Intex want to have some apps there | 13:34 |
| tbr | yeah 'supposed', so far not much of either. tablet in tiny doses, intex delayed to 2016Q1 | 13:35 |
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| mvaenskae | intex phones? | 13:37 |
| tortoisedoc | tbr : I think there was no final release date for intex phone | 13:37 |
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| tortoisedoc | mvaenskae : https://together.jolla.com/question/98883/intex-jolla/ | 13:37 |
| Yaniel | there appears to be a fairphone 2 adaptation in the works | 13:38 |
| Yaniel | not officially backed by jolla though :( | 13:38 |
| look_plane | with sailfishos? | 13:38 |
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| cybette | look_plane: yes, https://jolla.comes.today/jolla-community-working-on-sailfish-os-for-the-fairphone-2/ | 13:39 |
| tbr | mvaenskae: well jolla is not in the device business, never really was. their devices are more showcases to attract companies (mobile operators, device vendors) to license sailfishos from them for €€€ | 13:39 |
| mvaenskae | so basically what google does with android? | 13:39 |
| tbr | yeah, quite similar | 13:40 |
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| tbr | also the russian federation seems to be considering sailfish based devices to reduce reliance on android devices in the national markets | 13:40 |
| mvaenskae | hm, i cannot find mer's license easily | 13:40 |
| mhall119 | Stskeeps: not all of Ubuntu is under a CLA, so it really depends on what you contribute to | 13:40 |
| artemma | ah, Intex is delayed until Q1 2016 - didn't know about it, thought it was supposed to go out for Christmas 2015 :( | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | mhall119: yeah, true, i should have said ubuntu UI related parts | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | as an example | 13:41 |
| tortoisedoc | artemma : for christmas youll get the tablet ;) | 13:41 |
| tortoisedoc | (maybe) | 13:41 |
| mvaenskae | the jolla tablet is still in production? | 13:41 |
| artemma | I hope so as I hope to move to another country just before christmas - so tablet might get lost in transaction :) | 13:41 |
| artemma | it would be good if they could expedite for such cases | 13:41 |
| mvaenskae | i've heard it was quite a success | 13:41 |
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| mvaenskae | on the funding part | 13:42 |
| tortoisedoc | mvaenskae : in shipping i'd say rather :P | 13:42 |
| mhall119 | mvaenskae: if you want to talk to somebody about Ubuntu phone, give me a ping | 13:42 |
| lainwir3d | mvaenskae: the crowdfunding was a success, but it's being produced right now | 13:42 |
| * mhall119 is a community manager at Canonical | 13:42 | |
| lainwir3d | Just a few people have received it | 13:42 |
| * Stskeeps concurs, mhall119 is a good person to talk to about ubuntu | 13:42 | |
| artemma | anyway, from this talk I deduce there isn't any news on a potential app economy and/or contests. It's a pity, but it is how it is, thanks | 13:42 |
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| * artemma has a weird interest in Qt and QML and would develop for any platform that has at least a tiny app economy and where you can make full-fledged apps in Qt/QML :) | 13:43 | |
| * artemma hoped sailfishos would be such a platorm | 13:43 | |
| mvaenskae | mhall119: my group partner will gladly talk to you :) | 13:43 |
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| mhall119 | artemma: how is Sailfish not such a platform? | 13:44 |
| urjaman | mhall119: economy | 13:44 |
| artemma | mhall119 no app economy that I knew of | 13:44 |
| urjaman | i think he wants money for apps | 13:44 |
| lainwir3d | well, make a Qt / QML app for sailfish | 13:44 |
| artemma | you know, ability to get at least icecream money for something | 13:44 |
| mhall119 | oh, selling apps, harbor doesn't support that yet? | 13:44 |
| lainwir3d | then sell it in all the other platforms where Qt / QML is working | 13:44 |
| lainwir3d | here is your app economy :P | 13:45 |
| artemma | mhall119 it's worse, harbour doesn't even provide any policy on when it could be open :) | 13:45 |
| urjaman | there is flattr but yeah no selling apps yet | 13:45 |
| mvaenskae | are there some numbers on sailfish user numbers? | 13:45 |
| mhall119 | artemma: well that's not something that would ever be a policy, just a roadmap | 13:45 |
| mvaenskae | app-installation sources don't allow selling apps on sailfish? | 13:46 |
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| artemma | mhall119 I would accept anything :) So far the only thing we have public IIRC is message from Jolla's CEO or Chaiman from about Feb 2015 about that jolla is going to support developers :) | 13:46 |
| urjaman | the QA'd store has no selling mechanism | 13:46 |
| urjaman | doesnt mean your app couldnt attempt to require purchase after installation | 13:46 |
| urjaman | but then it would be upto you to do all the hard work | 13:47 |
| artemma | mhall119 and I think it was one of the first statements by a new chaiman, so I guess he didn't yet knew some big limitations | 13:47 |
| artemma | I don't want to bog you too much with this topic guys | 13:47 |
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| artemma | it's interesting to me, but not to everybody | 13:47 |
| mhall119 | artemma: that's possible, dealing with payment processors and integrating that into your own code is a chore | 13:47 |
| artemma | I think I've got the current answer, that no money assistance for developers in plans yet | 13:48 |
| artemma | not in public(ish) ones at least | 13:48 |
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| tortoisedoc | artemma : perhaps it's too early, it will come, eventually | 13:50 |
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| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: may i ask why exchange active sync is closed? | 13:53 |
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| mvaenskae | is exchange per default non-free? | 13:53 |
| urjaman | i guess M$ | 13:54 |
| tbr | MS wants €€€ or $$$ for protocol licensing | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | what tbr said | 13:54 |
| mvaenskae | so it is due to external factors that the android runtime, exchange and text prediction cannot be free i assume | 13:55 |
| tbr | IMAP notify would be nice, but next to no client seems to support it... | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: IMAP IDLE or notify? | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | i think we have IMAP IDLE now | 13:55 |
| tbr | text prediction uses 3rd party IPR IIRC | 13:55 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: notify, not IDLE | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 13:56 |
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| mhall119 | did you guys write your own email client from scratch, or base it on something like Trojita? | 13:56 |
| tbr | notify can work across all mailboxes, where with IDLE you can only talk to one directory at a time | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: QMF based | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | er | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | mhall119: | 13:56 |
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| tbr | Stskeeps: my current plan is to work around this deficiency by using sieve execution hooks on the server side that then send messages via my Sailfish Push messaging network to my phone | 13:58 |
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| tbr | obviously most users don't run their own IMAP server, nor their own push messaging service... | 13:59 |
| Stskeeps | another angle could be installing tor on all sailfish devices and doing push messaging as tor hidden services | 13:59 |
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| urjaman | :D | 13:59 |
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| tbr | Stskeeps: or use your whatchamacallit distributed thing | 14:01 |
| Stskeeps | ipfs? not sure it's suitable for push messaging | 14:01 |
| tbr | k | 14:01 |
| tortoisedoc | tbr : your notification network? | 14:01 |
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| tbr | tortoisedoc: I have a proof of concept push messaging service that handles e.g. my irc hilight notifications and sends them to my phone | 14:02 |
| tbr | which then pushes them to my wristwatch | 14:02 |
| tortoisedoc | tbr : kewl | 14:02 |
| tortoisedoc | tbr : would it require alot of resources to put it public? | 14:02 |
| tbr | latency is very low, while power impact is neglegible | 14:02 |
| tbr | tortoisedoc: I've got the architecture in my head (and posted parts to twitter) | 14:03 |
| tortoisedoc | tbr : ah ok so arch is not implemented yet :P | 14:03 |
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| tortoisedoc | push notifications on jolla would be nice | 14:04 |
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| tbr | tortoisedoc: I have a proof of concept working, with less functionality | 14:04 |
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| tbr | tortoisedoc: I might be persuaded to work on it again, but it will take more than warm words to be honest | 14:04 |
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| tbr | I showed it to jolla, they thought it's nice, but have shown no commercial interest | 14:05 |
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| tortoisedoc | guess push notifications are mainly provided via operators? | 14:10 |
| tortoisedoc | (ie over GSM / 3-4G networks?) | 14:10 |
| SfietKonstantinW | tortoisedoc: they are provided by Google/Apple | 14:11 |
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| SfietKonstantinW | over GSM 3/4G | 14:11 |
| SfietKonstantinW | the two big APIs are Apple push service and google play services | 14:11 |
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| tbr | tortoisedoc: mostly they use IP nowadays, although AFAIU google was at some point capable of using SMS to alert the device. | 14:15 |
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| drwd | Hello, good morning and afternoon here | 14:24 |
| drwd | I have a question about sailfish os | 14:25 |
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| tbr | just ask | 14:26 |
| drwd | Ok, I want to know if sailfish os could be able on my device android. | 14:26 |
| tbr | ask in #sailfishos-porters | 14:27 |
| drwd | Ty guy | 14:27 |
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| leszek | any progress on vp8 and vp9 support for sailfishos gstreamer 1.4 ? | 16:41 |
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| coderus | why nobody is active on #nemomobile channel anymore? | 18:09 |
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| mvaenskae | the closed source apps on jolla are under the jolla eula, correct? | 18:11 |
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| nh1402 | any idea how to make an app which switches the use of fb0 (specifically /dev/fb0) on the display to fb1 (again /dev/fb1) | 18:11 |
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| urjaman | i didnt know we even had framebuffer devices | 18:18 |
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| nh1402 | its for the Android app compatibility for Sailfish project, we might be getting close and need an app to switch to fb1 so we can make sure Cyanogenmod/Android is actually drawing to fb1 | 18:20 |
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| nh1402 | because taking a screenshot of the framebuffer isn't working | 18:20 |
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| tortoisedoc | duh | 18:22 |
| tortoisedoc | nh1402 : a screenshot of the fb? | 18:22 |
| nh1402 | yes | 18:24 |
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| tortoisedoc | /dev/fb? | 18:27 |
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| nh1402 | yes | 18:31 |
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| mvaenskae | how is sailfish different from sailfishOS? | 18:41 |
| tortoisedoc | sailfish === sailfishos? | 18:42 |
| tortoisedoc | nh1402 : i believe there is a vnc server for sailfishos which relies on the fb iirc | 18:43 |
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| nh1402 | mvaenskae: sailfish is a fish in the sea, and sailfishOS is a linux Operating System | 18:43 |
| mvaenskae | tortoisedoc: then why doesn't jolla have the sailfishOS trademark but only sailfish? | 18:43 |
| tortoisedoc | mvaenskae : I would not know, maybe stskeeps does? | 18:44 |
| mvaenskae | at least in the EULA SailfishOS is never mentioned, but only Sailfish | 18:44 |
| * tortoisedoc pokes Stskeeps | 18:44 | |
| mvaenskae | at least Sailfish is only mentioned as trademark | 18:44 |
| leszek | can you actually trademark OS ? I don't think so. What you can get a copyright on is a logo with the name SailfishOS I guess | 18:45 |
| tortoisedoc | leszek : an os name definitively | 18:45 |
| tortoisedoc | (see Windows, for example) | 18:46 |
| mvaenskae | 4. Ownership "Jolla, Sailfish and The Other Half are trademarks or registered trademarks of Jolla Ltd. Jolla’s product names are either trademarks or registered trademarks of Jolla." | 18:46 |
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| Stskeeps | huh? | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | well you can have SailfishTM OS | 19:12 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: alright, so SailfishOS is also officially owned by you then, right? | 19:16 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: btw, is the jolla app-store online accessible via browser? | 19:16 |
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| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: it's not (accessible by browser0 | 19:17 |
| mvaenskae | ah, shame :/ | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: well i'll have to start calling it Sailfish OS from now on.. :P | 19:18 |
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| Tegu | mvaenskae: here's on (old) dump of the store https://aa23568ae0a9ffcdc8b05adb81e907ef9cba1c4c.htmlb.in (sry for a weird host) | 19:19 |
| Tegu | eh, I mean, very limited dump | 19:19 |
| mvaenskae | i was merely looking for a reference that cites the jolla store as the official store for SailfishOS :) | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | Tegu: O_o | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: well, i'm not sure that's technically the official store.. | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | it's the store provided with jolla devices | 19:20 |
| r0kk3rz | nh1402: you need to look into how lipstick interacts with alien-dalvik, as you shouldnt have to go all the way to the framebuffer level | 19:20 |
| r0kk3rz | will likely require a bit of coding though | 19:20 |
| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: but wouldn't it be the official store if jolla licenses SOS (SailfishOS) to OEMs? | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | mvaenskae: i don't think the jury verdict is out on that :) | 19:21 |
| mvaenskae | so SOS doesn't actually have an official app-store? | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | i think harbour is one but if you get a jolla device, you'll see that it offers you to download other application stores too | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | anyway, i've had a few beers so i'm not able to comment officially | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | sorry :) | 19:22 |
| r0kk3rz | mvaenskae: no more than Play store is the 'official' android store | 19:22 |
| mvaenskae | out of personal interest, are there any internal mumblings going on regarding a new phone? | 19:22 |
| nh1402 | r0kk3rz: wouldn't there be issues in copying the aliendalvik approach | 19:22 |
| nh1402 | such as being sued or something | 19:23 |
| r0kk3rz | nh1402: not from the lipstick side, no | 19:23 |
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| mvaenskae | Stskeeps: enjoy your local liquor ;) | 19:23 |
| r0kk3rz | nh1402: and the androidy core stuff is all open source, so its free to use | 19:23 |
| r0kk3rz | nh1402: the jolla guys might not be able to give us information due to a possible NDA however | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, we can't help you since we know how it works :/ | 19:24 |
| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: surely you have some idea how it interacts with liptick/wayland however? | 19:24 |
| r0kk3rz | or is it all black magic and dark incantations | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | r0kk3rz: sure, but that's because i came up with it in the first place | 19:25 |
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| mvaenskae | i will likely come in the following days, seems like i must have missed out on cell phone development with you guys :) | 19:25 |
| mvaenskae | something different than google and all the other large OEMs | 19:26 |
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| mvaenskae | are you guys able to provide me with some numbers or would that be not allowed? i would merely like to reference that to show how much of a market impact SOS has had thus far | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | not able to give numbers | 19:28 |
| mvaenskae | shame, but thanks for giving me a response :) | 19:28 |
| mvaenskae | better than nothing and not knowing if that is possible | 19:29 |
| mvaenskae | oh, i'll have to go home now :/ i'll be back later though i guess :) | 19:29 |
| Yaniel | I can give you one number | 19:29 |
| Yaniel | sfos is the only mobile os I've seen that gives me a real terminal of its own | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | ubuntu has a terminal too though? | 19:30 |
| Yaniel | oh right that one is supposed to be be a thing now too | 19:30 |
| coderus | thinking about animation of smowflakes and waterdrops... | 19:31 |
| coderus | put animation inside each object, or make some moving item with single animation object? | 19:32 |
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| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: does liptick interface with surfaceflinger, or a derivative thereof? or is it higher up | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | no | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | lipstick uses hwcomposer through qt5-qpa-hwcomposer | 19:37 |
| nh1402 | well I've just managed to pause lipstick and start surfaceflinger and pause surfaceflinger and unpause lipstick and it works | 19:38 |
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| nh1402 | but it does require disabling hw overlays so some android stuff doesn't draw on top of lipstick stuff when lipstick is unpaused | 19:40 |
| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : do you know if the pin code dialog is part of lipstick? | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | it is | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | as in | 19:40 |
| tortoisedoc | (not the device unlock dialog) | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | lipstick-jolla-home | 19:41 |
| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: sure, but at some point dalvik must interface with lipstick to finish composting before it gets sent to hwcomposer for device stuff | 19:41 |
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| Stskeeps | r0kk3rz: wayland | 19:41 |
| nh1402 | Stskeeps: Is there any plans to integrate 3d touch into Sailfish when it becomes mainstream | 19:41 |
| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : so not open source :/ | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | nh1402: dunno | 19:42 |
| Smar | which reinvented technology 3d touch is? | 19:42 |
| nh1402 | found in the Mate S | 19:43 |
| nh1402 | iPhone 6 and iPhone 6s | 19:43 |
| nh1402 | Synaptics Clearforce | 19:43 |
| r0kk3rz | 'when it becomes mainstream', surely that needs to happen first | 19:43 |
| Smar | I always see people just repeating that word all again but no-one telling what it actually can do :D | 19:43 |
| nh1402 | won't take long | 19:43 |
| r0kk3rz | i imagine we'll see it on sailfish when theres a device with it | 19:43 |
| nh1402 | it detects different levels of pressurse | 19:43 |
| nh1402 | pressure* | 19:43 |
| Smar | okay | 19:43 |
| Smar | I’ll just use my wacom instead then :P | 19:44 |
| nh1402 | i think about 3 levels | 19:44 |
| nh1402 | normal, medium and hard | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | probably a matter of sending the pressure over wayland protoocl | 19:44 |
| tortoisedoc | hmm i think there is already something like that? | 19:44 |
| nh1402 | but there are apps that allow you to weigh some light objects | 19:44 |
| tortoisedoc | or is it just the time span of the pressure | 19:44 |
| nh1402 | there is something in event* about pressure | 19:46 |
| nh1402 | don't know how that works though | 19:47 |
| kimmoli | just measures you finger area atm | 19:48 |
| nh1402 | it used the word pressure, I think | 19:49 |
| kimmoli | possible with capacitive touch to detech how large object is coupled with surface | 19:49 |
| kimmoli | missleading | 19:49 |
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| tortoisedoc | kimmoli : any link to some info on the topic? | 19:49 |
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| kimmoli | i can google some, but nothing to throw now | 19:51 |
| nh1402 | what is your preferred fingerprint sensor placement, below the screen on the side of the phone or on the back. | 19:52 |
| nh1402 | mine is the z5 placement on the side of the phone it looks like its much easier to use and doesn't require stretching to below the screen | 19:53 |
| * tortoisedoc prefers no fingerprint reader | 19:54 | |
| tortoisedoc | numbers hail | 19:54 |
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| r0kk3rz | i like the idea of using a BLE token for lockscreen auth | 19:55 |
| kimmoli | i would like to see nostril cavity probe identification | 19:55 |
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| r0kk3rz | kimmoli: is that suitably unique? | 19:56 |
| tortoisedoc | nostrils, hmm you have a big scope there | 19:56 |
| kimmoli | i think there is not yet enough data | 19:56 |
| nh1402 | i prefer iris recog | 19:56 |
| kimmoli | anything that prevents you using yout phone on hangover works | 19:57 |
| nh1402 | or my own idea all biometrics at once iris, facial and voice | 19:57 |
| nh1402 | iris in both eyes | 19:57 |
| r0kk3rz | kimmoli: surely its pre-hangover that you want to prevent, not the hangover usage itself | 19:58 |
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| kimmoli | the add blink secret code Left, Right, L1, L2, R1, R2, R2, Left, Left, Right, L1 with your eyes and ears | 19:58 |
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| nh1402 | kimmoli: i thought that was the V-rally 2 cheat code for a second | 20:00 |
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| nh1402 | or the San Andreas jetpack cheat code | 20:00 |
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| kimmoli | GTA V parachute | 20:03 |
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| nh1402 | on the PS4?, I have it but am terrible | 20:04 |
| nh1402 | i've completed the story but killed constantly online | 20:04 |
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| kimmoli | offtopic; if i have array "property var kissa: [1,2,3]" , and set kissa[0] = 2; there is no onKissaChanged signal... höh? | 20:07 |
| kimmoli | i can use property var kissa0, kissa1, kissa2. but then setting these from repeater is pita... | 20:08 |
| kimmoli | if (index === 0) kissa0 = value; else if (... | 20:08 |
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| attah | kimmoli: i guess array means pointer as in c? | 20:20 |
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| kimmoli | "This is because arrays in QML are not QML Objects" | 20:21 |
| attah | meh! :P | 20:21 |
| kimmoli | http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qml-variant.html#storing-arrays-and-objects | 20:22 |
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| coderus | kimmoli: kissa[0] = 2; should not work | 20:28 |
| coderus | you do var temp = kissa; temp[0] = 2; kissa = temp; | 20:28 |
| coderus | or use a ListModel type instead of your var | 20:29 |
| kimmoli | i was going to try listmodel next | 20:29 |
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| mvaenskae | and i am back | 21:42 |
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| mvaenskae | does SOS have a forum somewhere? | 21:45 |
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| Yaniel | right here | 21:48 |
| Yaniel | well, there is together.jolla.com | 21:48 |
| Yaniel | but it is more of a stackoverflow style thing | 21:48 |
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| bobsummerwill | From what I have read, it was an intentional decision to go with together.jolla.com, to encourage community discussion around bugs and features. | 22:31 |
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| Yaniel | yes | 22:32 |
| bobsummerwill | There’s a mailing list too - https://lists.sailfishos.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel | 22:32 |
| mvaenskae | thanks, i got a bit distracted on my research :) i have to include the community in my report about sailfish and found that a bit "lacking" as there is no way for me to get ask for information except in here which gives me non-technical answers in a reasonably quick way :) | 22:33 |
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