Saturday, 2013-07-13

« Friday, 2013-07-12 Index Sunday, 2013-07-14 »
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Stskeepshttps://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/356034168351756290 and https://twitter.com/VDVsx/status/35602962675938508813:00
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M4rtinK2well, I do hope you are not dumping Qt4 just yet :)14:10
M4rtinK2at least until working Qt5 bindings for Python are available14:11
Sfiet_Konstantinah ... python bindings for Qt514:16
Sfiet_Konstantindon't even know if they will exist14:16
Sfiet_Konstantinespecially about the pyside one14:16
Sfiet_Konstantinpyqt one are available14:16
Sfiet_Konstantinbut only under gpl license14:16
fk_lxyes14:16
fk_lxand they are not full14:17
Sfiet_Konstantinthat doesn't matter for you M4rtinK214:17
Sfiet_Konstantinfk_lx: what's missing ?14:17
fk_lxI mean PyQt 5 doesn't have full bindings14:17
fk_lxI've read it somewhere14:17
M4rtinK2yep14:17
M4rtinK2they do compile against Qt514:17
fk_lxbtw Hi M4rtinK214:18
fk_lx:-)14:18
M4rtinK2but without QtQuick 2.0 at the moment14:18
fk_lxyes14:18
M4rtinK2fk_lx: hi :)14:18
fk_lxexactly14:18
Sfiet_Konstantinhttp://pyqt.sourceforge.net/Docs/PyQt5/pyqt4_differences.html14:18
Sfiet_Konstantinwithout qtQuick 114:18
Sfiet_Konstantinah na14:18
Sfiet_Konstantina "future release"14:18
M4rtinK2not sure about QtQuick 1.014:18
Sfiet_Konstantinalright, without QtQuick 2 :(14:18
M4rtinK2oh, well that's rather bad :)14:18
Sfiet_KonstantinQtQuick1 is not supported14:18
Sfiet_Konstantinand should not be supporrted14:19
fk_lx:-)14:19
M4rtinK2well, someone is bugging the PyQt developer about QtQuick 2.0 support every other week14:20
M4rtinK2so lets hope it eventually arrives14:20
M4rtinK2but still14:20
fk_lxyeah14:20
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M4rtinK2it needs to be packaged, included in the repos, etc.14:20
M4rtinK2PySide is already here14:20
Sfiet_Konstantinwonder if someone can start an experimental port of PySide14:20
Sfiet_Konstantinhttp://qt-project.org/wiki/PySideDevelopment14:20
Sfiet_KonstantinM4rtinK2: it is here for Qt414:20
Sfiet_KonstantinPySide5 do not exists14:21
M4rtinK2yeah, they are still basically getting up to speed14:21
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M4rtinK2after most of the original PySide developers left when Nokia stopped financing it14:22
fk_lxyep14:22
Sfiet_Konstantinnot to say all14:22
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Sfiet_KonstantinPySide is integrated in the QtProject though14:22
Sfiet_KonstantinI guess, there is just a need of devs to picking it up14:22
Sfiet_Konstantinfk_lx: what about you ? :D14:22
M4rtinK2no concrete timeframe for supporting Qt5 at the moment14:22
Sfiet_Konstantinthe idea is that there is that pyside binding generator14:23
M4rtinK2they do wan!t to support it, but work on it was not yet even started14:23
M4rtinK2*wan't14:23
Sfiet_Konstantinif I did not commited that much in these social networks, I would love to learn it14:23
fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: great idea, but you know I'm doing 2 conferences, that means a lot of work if you organized such kind of event14:23
Sfiet_Konstantin:)14:23
M4rtinK2also, aside from hosting the repo at QtPRoject, there was no support for PySide from Digia IIRC14:23
Sfiet_Konstantinfk_lx: IIRC you do have knowledge in python14:23
Sfiet_KonstantinM4rtinK2: there is no _devs_14:23
Sfiet_Konstantinthat's the most important part14:24
Yanielthere is no interesting platform atm14:24
Yanielat least not for me :P14:24
Sfiet_Konstantinand look there are devs that decided to do the Qt Android / Qt Tizen thing14:24
M4rtinK2Sfiet_Konstantin: well, some guys started working on it recently14:24
Sfiet_Konstantinso there might be a dev for pyside14:24
M4rtinK2tey even did a bufix release a few days back14:24
Sfiet_KonstantinYaniel: desktop ? the Jolla ?14:24
Sfiet_Konstantinany device running python ?14:25
YanielPySide is something I'd like to use on a mobile device14:25
Yanielmostly for playing around14:25
Sfiet_KonstantinYaniel: PySide is something I'd like to use :)14:25
Sfiet_Konstantinbecause it is simple, and python14:25
Yanielbecause that and prototyping is what python is awesome for14:25
Sfiet_Konstantinno need of compiling etc14:25
fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: Jolla device will have python for sure it is part of Mer/Nemo14:25
Sfiet_KonstantinYaniel: +1 for fast proto14:25
Sfiet_Konstantinfk_lx: but will they have PySide5 ?14:25
Sfiet_Konstantinif they have python, but just for scripts14:26
Sfiet_Konstantinthen it rather pointless14:26
YanielI'm pretty sure we can get PySide5 if we want14:26
Sfiet_KonstantinYaniel: I'm not sure14:26
fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: even for scripts launched from some C++ GUI application it makes sense14:26
Sfiet_Konstantin(that they want :D)14:26
Sfiet_Konstantinfk_lx: +1, but not to write some nice apps like those of M4rtinK2 or thp14:27
M4rtinK2BTW, it is currently possible to use PySide on BB10 and Android14:27
Sfiet_KonstantinI would love to see PySide5 just for keeping devs14:27
M4rtinK2I have my PySide apps running on both and even in store on BB10 :)14:27
Sfiet_KonstantinM4rtinK2: with Qt ?14:27
M4rtinK2yep14:27
Sfiet_Konstantinso basically there is a sort of PySide5 for BB ?14:27
YanielI'm missing good ol' PyS60 :/14:28
M4rtinK2BB10 uses Qt414:28
Sfiet_KonstantinM4rtinK2: ah :(14:28
M4rtinK2BTW, android: http://qt-project.org/wiki/PySide_for_Android_guide14:28
Sfiet_Konstantinyeah forgot about it, it is Qt414:29
Sfiet_Konstantinand :/14:29
Morpog_PCmaybe the ubuntu guys got something?14:29
Sfiet_KonstantinPySide5 ?14:29
M4rtinK2BB10: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8860814:29
M4rtinK2nope, Ubuntu seems to be actually quite anti-python recently14:30
fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: yes I know, besides gPodder 4 will be C++ based as far as I've read somewhere14:30
Sfiet_Konstantinfk_lx: ah14:30
fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: so no PySide will be needed14:30
Sfiet_Konstantinthat's wrong for being against Python14:30
Sfiet_KonstantinM4rtinK2: ever tinkered with shiboken binding generator?14:30
Sfiet_Konstantinwonder how it would work when ran on Qt514:31
fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: it's not being against python ;-) who but who I'm not against Python14:31
M4rtinK2well, just getting it compile on BB10 and Anroid was "fun" :)14:31
Sfiet_Konstantindamn I'm curious, going to do that now :)14:31
M4rtinK2*android14:31
Sfiet_Konstantinfk_lx: I was talking about M4rtinK2's comment on Canonical14:31
fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: ah, ok :-)14:31
Sfiet_KonstantinM4rtinK2: what about on Mer ?14:31
Morpog_PChttp://askubuntu.com/questions/235369/can-i-develop-ubuntu-for-phones-apps-in-python/236081#23608114:32
Sfiet_Konstantindo you have the Mer PlatformSDK ?14:32
M4rtinK2there were some questions about Python on Ubuntu-touch14:32
Sfiet_Konstantingo, today is QtCore compile day ! Let's try shiboken on QtCore :P14:32
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M4rtinK2when they said stuff like "all devel tools of normal Ubuntu will be available"14:32
M4rtinK2someone asked about PYthon as it is heavily used by Canonical14:33
M4rtinK2and they replied a bit unfriendly IIRC14:34
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M4rtinK2at least it was apparen't Canonical won't do anything themselves to make Qt usable from Python on their platform14:34
M4rtinK2Morpog_PC: yeah, I think that's the thread14:35
fk_lxin my opinion Canonical is not consequent regarding Python GUI apps14:35
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fk_lxfor example they have done some tutorial about writing PyGTK apps for Ubuntu some time ago14:36
Sfiet_Konstantinalright people, bbl, need to buy some finnish food :D14:36
fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: enjoy14:36
fk_lxthe cheap food in Tampere can be ate in that indoor marketplace thing14:37
Sfiet_Konstantinwell no :)14:37
Sfiet_Konstantinneed to install packages for compiling qt514:37
Sfiet_Konstantin(at least qt5core)14:37
M4rtinK2anyway, I think it shouldn't be that difficult to make PySide work with Qt514:37
Sfiet_KonstantinM4rtinK2: yeah14:37
Sfiet_Konstantinwanna start it "for fun" ?14:37
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm getting a wl flavoured of Qt5Core14:37
Sfiet_Konstantinas usual14:38
M4rtinK2the PyQt guy was rather fast with making it compile with it14:38
Sfiet_Konstantindamn, it is really painful to use yum when you used zypper14:38
fk_lxwhich means it cannot be that hard if you now what you are doing14:38
M4rtinK2and most changes should be backward compatible14:38
Sfiet_Konstantinzypper in package vs yum install package14:38
Sfiet_Konstantinalright, mesa compiling, see you guys14:41
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mhall119M4rtinK2: in theory you can use Python + Qt5 on Ubuntu Touch, now that PyQt has support for Qt515:01
mhall119we're just not advocating Python for use in developing mobile applications because of it's resource consumption15:02
* Stskeeps misses pymaemo approach to things15:05
fk_lxpymaemo, I already forgot about that name, but I recall it :-)15:05
M4rtinK2mhall119: well, I think this is not that much of an issue as long as the app is written in a sane way15:10
M4rtinK2mhall119: it will be just calling Qt5 APIs all the time anyway15:11
mhall119M4rtinK2: but each process having it's own instance of the python runtime can eat up memory when multi-tasking15:13
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M4rtinK2mhall119: good point, but wonder how much of an overhead would it really have in real usage15:16
fk_lxmhall119: the GIL must go15:16
fk_lxmhall119: that was shouted by Alex Martelli at last EuroPython15:16
M4rtinK2also, shouldn't at least the python libs be shared anyway ?15:16
M4rtinK2fk_lx: multiprocessing kinda solves this already :)15:17
mhall119fk_lx: true as that may be, I don't think it makes much of a difference for per-app-python processes15:17
fk_lxmhall119: and there is plan of getting read of GIL, so Python will make benefit of multicore processors15:17
mhall119M4rtinK2: the libs and binary will be shared, but each process will have it's own address space15:17
Stskeepsboosters can help that a lot15:17
fk_lxmhall119: but wouldn't it allow a possibility to run few apps one Python instance?15:17
mhall119fk_lx: but that doesn't help when running multiple instances of python, only when running multiple threads15:18
fk_lxmhall119: ok15:18
mhall119fk_lx: running multiple apps inside one python runtime?15:18
mhall119it's possible, we tried that with Unity Scopes15:18
fk_lxmhall119: and what was the result?15:19
mhall119isolation is a problem though15:19
fk_lxmhall119: ah, I see15:19
mhall119and, of course, the GIL becomes a problem then too15:19
Stskeepshttp://blogs.gnome.org/johan/2007/01/18/introducing-python-launcher/15:20
fk_lxStskeeps: :-)15:22
Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: not bad15:22
mhall119Stskeeps: interesting approach15:22
Stskeepsmapplauncherd could handle that15:22
Sfiet_Konstantinlooks a lot like booster15:22
M4rtinK2Stskeeps: interesting !15:23
StskeepsSfiet_Konstantin: maemo-laucher is mapplauncherd's ancestor15:23
Sfiet_Konstantin:O15:23
Sfiet_Konstantininteresting15:23
M4rtinK2I think all these issues with Python are solvable15:23
M4rtinK2and once PyPy matures a bit more, it should get interesting :)15:24
M4rtinK2BTW, PyPy is already being used by the some 3D printing packages on Fedora to speedup slicing :)15:24
mhall119M4rtinK2: you're always going to have the problem of separate python processes having separate memory15:25
Stskeepssure, but it can be minimized like qt ones15:26
Stskeepsthat said, true mobile optimization means cutting in python15:26
fk_lxyeah15:26
Stskeepslike only install pyo/pyc, etc15:27
M4rtinK2Stskeeps: already doing that :)15:29
Stskeepsplus a bunch of other things that pymaemo did..15:29
M4rtinK2at least on BB10 and Android15:29
M4rtinK2it did some optimizations ?15:29
Stskeepsyeah, take a look at diffs someday15:29
M4rtinK2I always though it was just the name of the project for supporting Python on Maemo 515:30
M4rtinK2oh, good to know that15:30
Stskeepsi spent some time with it for old ubuntu based mer15:30
M4rtinK2well,  actually tested the old Mer on my Smart Q 7 back then :)15:31
Stskeepsyeah.. god, if we had the technologies we have now back then..15:31
Stskeeps:P15:31
M4rtinK2even filled some bugs and wrote some guides :)15:31
Stskeeps:nod:15:31
M4rtinK2well, yeah15:32
M4rtinK2also less feet dragging from Nokia :)15:32
fk_lx:-)15:33
fk_lxStskeeps: just don't waste the chance you all have currently in Jolla, you probably won't get another one if the whole thing fails15:34
Sfiet_KonstantinM4rtinK2: just saw the XML code15:35
Sfiet_Konstantinlooks ok :D15:35
M4rtinK2sound good :D15:35
M4rtinK2*sounds15:35
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat I really wonder is why is Jolla betting on the smartphone instead of betting, for example on a nice tablet15:36
Sfiet_Konstantinsmartphone world is so constrained15:37
StskeepsSfiet_Konstantin: go to a supermarket electronics section15:37
Sfiet_Konstantinyeah, there are a lot of android tablets15:37
Sfiet_Konstantinand in the middle, the tablet of god: the iPad15:37
Stskeepsalso look at their prices..15:38
M4rtinK2Sfiet_Konstantin: hopefully the EOMA & Plasma Active combo has this covered :)15:38
Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: 90€ - 400€ ?15:39
Sfiet_Konstantinstill, I don't get your point15:39
Sfiet_Konstantinbecause for the smartphone, you need a lot of certifications, and it is even harder to market than a tablet15:39
Sfiet_Konstantinespcially when you start15:39
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M4rtinK2well, it is true that it seems that for example the BB PlayBook tablet was quite a flop15:42
M4rtinK2and I have a 150€ TouchPad from the firesale15:42
M4rtinK2so there seems to be some dangerous territory on the tablet front :)15:42
Sfiet_Konstantintrue15:43
Sfiet_Konstantina smart tablet :)15:43
Sfiet_Konstantinlike the ubuntu think15:43
Sfiet_Konstantinthing15:43
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sh_ahmedHi, just heard a rumor that sailfish is using wayland, true?17:53
Stskeepstrue17:53
sh_ahmedThat'd be great!17:53
sh_ahmedNow there will be some tough competition to ubuntu phone17:54
sh_ahmedI'm personally inclined towards Wayland, so I'd probably go for Sailfish, but I guess they have to rethink about the price.17:55
sh_ahmed$500 too much for the currently revealed specs.17:55
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mhall119why do you care about the display server?18:11
Stskeepsmhall119: there's always people that will care about things.. personally i think what matters is simple, pricepoint and experience18:12
Stskeepser, those kind of things18:12
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jotikwhen will the next version of the SailFish SDK be released?18:26
fk_lxonly hint -> soon18:27
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jotiksoon <= a period of 1 month?18:37
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sh_ahmedhi guys, one question. If I understand correctly, sailfish will need drivers to make everything happen. So do we have native Sailfish drivers from various chip manufacturers now?19:04
Stskeepssh_ahmed: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2013/04/wayland-utilizing-android-gpu-drivers.html19:06
Stskeepsmight interest you19:06
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