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| edgars | eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee | 06:42 |
|---|---|---|
| Stskeeps | weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee | 06:42 |
| Stskeeps | you mean | 06:42 |
| edgars | not jet | 06:42 |
| edgars | new phone presentation, whennnnnnn? | 06:43 |
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| dm8tbr | 1600 UTC | 06:44 |
| edgars | ohhh | 06:52 |
| edgars | that means 19:00 for me | 06:52 |
| edgars | :/ | 06:53 |
| ljp | it's 02:00 for me :) | 06:54 |
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| edgars | :D | 07:01 |
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| * Stskeeps nudges people to check twitter | 09:05 | |
| iekku | :) | 09:12 |
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| stephg | woot, preorder, er, ordered | 09:29 |
| faenil | o/ welcome to the club stephg | 09:30 |
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| stephg | :) | 09:31 |
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| xorrr | whats a "pre-order limited edition Other Half" | 10:16 |
| xorrr | https://join.jolla.com/en | 10:16 |
| ottulo | the back piece of the phone | 10:18 |
| xorrr | ah nvm, explained here https://jolla.com/ | 10:18 |
| xorrr | thx | 10:18 |
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| thp_ | whoa | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | :) | 10:38 |
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| sardini | hello all, very nice design jolla, I'm waiting this evening to know if I do a t'shirt support or a phone support. tunerFM ?screen resolution? | 10:40 |
| sardini | :) | 10:40 |
| sardini | but very very nice look | 10:41 |
| sardini | very excited | 10:43 |
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| thp_ | "Countries supported at the moment include Finland, Sweden, Denmark, United Kingdom, Germany, Spain, France, and Italy." - other countries can't preorder at the moment? i can pick other countries from the "Billing address" input, so slightly confused | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | i presume that this goes for shipping tshirts/paying, but i don't know | 10:47 |
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| thp_ | ok so the listed countries are for limited edition + other half orders, limited edition + t-shirt also works for other countries | 10:59 |
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| JvD_ | ordered | 11:01 |
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| sledges | +1 | 11:23 |
| sledges | :D | 11:23 |
| stephg | woo :) | 11:25 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | Who's pre-ordered? | 11:41 |
| sledges | +1 | 11:41 |
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| Summeli | +1 | 11:41 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | Hahah | 11:44 |
| MFaro-Tusino | I just need to organise shipment to Australia then I will get the Ltd. Ed. Version | 11:44 |
| Take^ | I'll ship it for you, for a modest price of 399EUR ;) | 11:49 |
| Take^ | (I want one too, but I'm broke atm :() | 11:50 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | lol | 11:51 |
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| backjlack | Hello. | 12:19 |
| backjlack | Will sailfishos be open source? | 12:19 |
| Summeli | Take^: you can also take the 0e pre-order just to get into the line when the device starts shipping :) | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | backjlack: sailfishos is built on existing open source projects, mer core and nemo mobile middleware | 12:20 |
| backjlack | Ok, but will it be open source or not? I'm looking for an alternative to Android and I was condering getting the 100 euro preorder. | 12:21 |
| backjlack | If it's not fully open source, then there's no point in getting it. It'd be yet another "Android". | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | for good measure: a production OS will never be fully open source; there's closed source bits in any hardware adaptation today, there's bits that can't be changed due to regulation (radio, etc) | 12:22 |
| backjlack | Yes, that makes sense. However, I am not talking about baseband or anything like that. I'm talking about the OS itself. | 12:23 |
| Take^ | Summeli: Sure, but that doesn't help with empty wallet | 12:23 |
| Stskeeps | sure, just saying that it's not easy to say 'fully' :) | 12:23 |
| MFaro-Tusino | How open will it be Carsten? | 12:24 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Or you can't say yet? | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | i believe it's already more open than meego or maemo ever was, in source and participation possibilities | 12:25 |
| backjlack | Android is a real pain. If the company which built your phone gets bored of providing you with updates so you shell out money, you're stuck. | 12:25 |
| backjlack | Either you install a random ROM built by some dropout or you stick to the original ROM with glitches and bugs. | 12:25 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Yeah, I've been thinking the same. Just wanted "official" clarification :) | 12:26 |
| Take^ | I suppose we'll get more info today | 12:26 |
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| backjlack | Also, Android is less and less "open". AOSP is just 70-90% of what Google ships on their phones. | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | <-- speaking on his own, not company's | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:26 |
| backjlack | It'd be nice to find out if sailfishos would be any different or "yet another OS used to force me to buy a new phone every year". | 12:27 |
| Take^ | backjlack: Agree | 12:27 |
| Nicd- | considering the number of devices sailfish runs on I doubt it will force you to buy their phone | 12:28 |
| Yaniel | backjlack: take a look at the mer project | 12:28 |
| Yaniel | which is pretty much where sailfish updates will come from AFAIK | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | it's never a black or white answer with this, but in practice sailfish = sailfish ui + mer core + nemo middleware | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | sailfish ui is not open source at this point | 12:29 |
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| backjlack | sailfish = sailfish ui + mer core + nemo middleware <- that "sailfish ui" looks like "closed source features" of Nexus * = Android AOSP + Google libs & frameworks + closed source features | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | backjlack: the only thing i can really say is that if you're in doubt, choose by feeling and playing with the device when time is | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | and seeing if it's acceptable to you | 12:31 |
| backjlack | It already looks like it's gone where others are trying to go. | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | and if you're interested, you can already now see the ongoing development in mer and nemo - that's live development, not just codedrops | 12:32 |
| Yaniel | you could also take a look at the emulator image | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | and even people building entire custom UIs on that | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | with same tools and methods as sailfish UI is built | 12:33 |
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| backjlack | Fair enough, I'll get the SDK and play with it. | 12:34 |
| Yaniel | backjlack: since you can ssh into the emulator, you should be able to figure out a thing or two | 12:35 |
| Nicd- | guess I have to start developing some software to run when I get my phone :P | 12:35 |
| Yaniel | if you know your stuff | 12:35 |
| Take^ | I'd love to see the binaries released today | 12:36 |
| Take^ | My N9 could use fresh software | 12:36 |
| backjlack | One of my main issues has always been the kernel. I can rebuild my kernel quite easily for my Linux box. It'd be nice to be able to do the same for my phone. | 12:37 |
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| Take^ | backjlack: AFAIK you can do that with sailfish | 12:37 |
| backjlack | My last phone with a custom kernel ended up having 10 days of battery life. | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | heh, kernels on consumer devices are funny.. upgrading them can be hard | 12:37 |
| Take^ | Or, mer to be exact | 12:37 |
| clau2 | any idea if swype keyboard is (or will be) available for sailfish os ? | 12:39 |
| stephg | just to drum up more excitement, hadn't seen this yet: http://www.viddler.com/v/be3be2fe | 12:40 |
| edgars | btw | 12:40 |
| edgars | where we will see live video? | 12:41 |
| Take^ | edgars: http://jolla.streamforce1.tv/ | 12:41 |
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| edgars | nice | 12:43 |
| edgars | thanks | 12:44 |
| edgars | almost 3 hours :/ | 12:44 |
| backjlack | How can I close an app running in the emulator? | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | peek back from the edge of the screen, i think | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | hold down mouse button, it's a bit hard on emulator | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | easier on device | 12:48 |
| Yaniel | emulating a touchscreen with a mouse has always worked well :( | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | and then i think you can close by holding down on screen and (x)'s come up | 12:49 |
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| lbt | edgars: https://sailfishos.org//core-gestures-article.html may help too | 12:50 |
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| backjlack | It looks like it can't load up projects into the emulator if they're not in your user folder. | 12:52 |
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| Stskeeps | correct, that's in known issues i think | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | this is just our 'alpha' or minnow sdk, so | 12:53 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | Be right back, time to boot into ubuntu. I feel wrong doing any Sailfish Related activities on OS X >.< | 12:55 |
| backjlack | It's much better than Android's anyway. | 12:55 |
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| lbt | MFaro-Tusino: +1 :) | 12:58 |
| MFaro-Tusino | lbt: Is the OBS build better now? I want to have my app ready to go for the official announcement :D | 12:59 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | back :) | 13:05 |
| lbt | MFaro-Tusino: it's still a bit manual in the current alpha SDK since that is frozen - latest platform SDK has new mb2 script which makes rpm building far more integrated | 13:05 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Awesome! Looking forward to the new release then | 13:06 |
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| lbt | you should be able to play with the current SDK too | 13:09 |
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| gyaresu | Well the release information is a bit thin right now. The device specs are completely vague and the website is showing almost no information still in regard to what the hell "the other half" is other than a coloured cover that might change the on-screen theme. | 13:17 |
| Nicd- | the release event is in a few hours | 13:18 |
| Nicd- | I'm sure we'll get more info | 13:18 |
| gyaresu | Ah... | 13:18 |
| gyaresu | Ok. That seems fair. | 13:18 |
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| gyaresu | It's really weird to see the 'call to arms' on https://join.jolla.com and yet there be no real info on it. It's like a Kickstarter with no info. | 13:20 |
| crevetor | Congrats sailors ! | 13:20 |
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| FabianS | Is it possible to install the Sailfish SDK without GUI and user input for packaging? | 13:25 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | Marc Dillion has actually said a lot. The Other Half will make the device more personalisable, and bring enhancements later on. AKA, this seems like we can get a qwerty, or bigger battery. But thats a bit OT here, use #JollaMobile for device discussion, keep this for OS/Dev | 13:26 |
| gyaresu | MFaro-Tusino, Thanks. #JollaMobile <- Didn't realise. Will go lurk. | 13:29 |
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| lbt | FabianS: what are you after? | 13:33 |
| FabianS | Packaging the SDK for a linux distro. | 13:34 |
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| FabianS | So that I can install it with the package manager. | 13:34 |
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| wirew0rm | FabianS: cool. which distro? I wanted to do this for arch, but i there isn't a really cool way i think. you can however create a repository on your local disc with the command line option and from this folder reconstruct the urls of the tar.gz files you need. | 13:46 |
| FabianS | Arch too. | 13:46 |
| FabianS | But as it installs to /home that wouldn't work. | 13:46 |
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| edgars | http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/20/finnish-meego-startup-jolla-reveals-first-phone-hardware-with-customisable-shells-e399-price-tag-coming-at-years-end/ | 13:53 |
| edgars | huh, and thats all? :/ | 13:53 |
| wirew0rm | FabianS: for example http://jolla.cachefly.net/SailfishOSSDK/alpha/repository/common/org.merproject.emulator/0.0.5-3emulator.7z is just the emulator vm, you can extract it to everywhere you want | 13:53 |
| FabianS | wirew0rm: thx. | 13:54 |
| FabianS | Does the emulator contain the phone's UI too like the android one? | 13:54 |
| FabianS | Or can you only run single applications? | 13:54 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | Damn, seriously an if else statement in qml is stumping me :/ | 13:56 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | I feel like such a n00b | 13:56 |
| wirew0rm | FabianS: there is an IDE, which is basically a fork of qtcreator: http://qt.gitorious.org/+mer-qt-creator/qt-creator/mer-qt-creator, then there is an emulator vm, which contains the software which should be running on the phone in the end, so yes including UI and everithing there is at the moment, and theres the sdk vm, which contains the build toolchain to compile applications | 13:56 |
| FabianS | Yeah, I'm running the emulator at the moment. | 13:57 |
| FabianS | But it seems like there is no app launcher or anything like that. I can minimize the hallo world app but that's it. | 13:58 |
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| wirew0rm | FabianS: the app launcher is there, but its empty, if you flick up from home screen you get an empty screen which is the launcher | 13:58 |
| edgars | lbt: okey, and what now? :) | 13:59 |
| FabianS | Ah. Neat. | 13:59 |
| MFaro-Tusino | use Zypper and install some apps from the repos | 13:59 |
| FabianS | Looks great but End of 2013 makes me sad :/ | 13:59 |
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| FabianS | And my laptop is clearly too slow for the emulation. | 13:59 |
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| lbt | edgars: sorry? | 14:01 |
| lbt | FabianS: oops - got drawn into something else | 14:01 |
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| Stskeeps | FabianS: what specs for your laptop? | 14:01 |
| FabianS | Stskeeps: Only 2 GB RAM and an AMD NEO MV-40. | 14:02 |
| FabianS | Basically a fast netbook. | 14:02 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 14:02 |
| FabianS | Not the kind of hardware you want to run virtualisation on. | 14:02 |
| lbt | FabianS: I don't think the sailfish SDK is redistributable in distros | 14:03 |
| edgars | lbt: https://sailfishos.org//core-gestures-article.html - i dinished wit this :D | 14:03 |
| edgars | finished | 14:03 |
| lbt | FabianS: due to the brand logos | 14:03 |
| FabianS | lbt: Arch provides build scripts for cases like that. | 14:03 |
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| FabianS | The makepgk-program downloads resources directly from the source and build a package from that. | 14:04 |
| FabianS | But as the SDK installs to /home anyway, that does not make sense. | 14:04 |
| louisdk | When will an ARM edition of Sailfish OS be released? | 14:04 |
| lbt | FabianS: right - but that source isn't public for the same reasons | 14:04 |
| FabianS | lbt: You don't need sources to build packages. | 14:04 |
| FabianS | Many scripts just run the propietary installer and copy everything to the right directories. | 14:05 |
| lbt | as per flash plugins? | 14:05 |
| FabianS | Yes. | 14:06 |
| FabianS | Or Dropbox, Spotify etc. | 14:06 |
| wirew0rm | FabianS: lbt: there are sources for the qtcreator based SDK ide, and the other components are basically vm images, that you just have to download, as far as i understood it | 14:06 |
| lbt | FabianS: short answer, no, there's no gui-less option | 14:06 |
| lbt | FabianS: longer answer - we use the qt installer which is OSS | 14:07 |
| lbt | so if someone patched that to provide a 'no-gui, use defaults' then we'd be closer | 14:07 |
| FabianS | As it installs everything into one directory in /home, it isn't really necessary to use the package manager anyway. | 14:07 |
| lbt | *nod* | 14:07 |
| lbt | eventually the plugin will be upstream and in std qtc anyhow | 14:08 |
| lbt | so you install normal distro QtCreator and get the plugin | 14:08 |
| FabianS | It's nice to see systemd output when the vm boots up. | 14:08 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, no sysvinit for us | 14:09 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:09 |
| lbt | wirew0rm: I'd like to get the VM images as discrete downloads | 14:09 |
| lbt | we have similar issues to do with click-through | 14:09 |
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| FabianS | I really like systemd and journald. | 14:09 |
| wirew0rm | lbt: doesn't the download link above work for you? | 14:10 |
| wirew0rm | don't know if its the most recent version of the vm tough, as the online repository is non browsable :( | 14:10 |
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| lbt | yeah - tbh that should not be a discrete download | 14:11 |
| louisdk | When will an ARM port be publicly released? | 14:11 |
| lbt | wirew0rm: I'm aiming to get that done legitimately | 14:12 |
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| wirew0rm | lbt: yes it would be nicer if jolla just provided an official download link. | 14:17 |
| wirew0rm | but I don't have issues with downloading and extracting it myself, as that is exactly what the installer does | 14:19 |
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| FabianS | Does sailfish use some X-based WIndowmanager or a Wayland compositor? | 14:30 |
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| lbt | FabianS: the emulator is X-based although Mer can run Qt on both X/Wayland | 14:40 |
| FabianS | Neat. | 14:41 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | Whats the best way to do a multi-line Label? | 15:07 |
| MFaro-Tusino | I was using a disabled TextField, but unsure of how to get the text to wrap | 15:07 |
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| * stephg patiently sat in a bar with a beer now | 15:15 | |
| * Stskeeps could use a beer.. | 15:15 | |
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| dm8tbr | mmmm, beeeer | 15:16 |
| stephg | Stskeeps, if I could get you a beer I would, but it'll be flowing tonight anyway right? :) | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | sadly not at launch event, stayed home of own choice | 15:20 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | Stskeeps: :( | 15:25 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Hmmm, wonder why this code isn't working. It works for one page, but not the next | 15:25 |
| stephg | eep well I hope you can get something to drink today, first steps I know but lots to celebrate and you should be proud :) | 15:26 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | lbt: Any useful links for the OBS for sailfish? I remember you linked one, but i don't remember the link >.< | 16:00 |
| lbt | https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Mer_OBS#Sailfish_on_OBS | 16:01 |
| MFaro-Tusino | (y) | 16:01 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | lbt: I am stuck here | 16:06 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Login to the mersdk using ssh and then set PKG to the name of your application and run the following commands: | 16:06 |
| MFaro-Tusino | export PKG=untitled1 | 16:06 |
| MFaro-Tusino | cd <appdir> | 16:06 |
| MFaro-Tusino | cd rpm | 16:06 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Not sure where the appdir is | 16:06 |
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| lbt | MFaro-Tusino: hmm | 16:08 |
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| lbt | so appdir is in your home - the name of the application | 16:09 |
| MFaro-Tusino | And you meant Sailfish SDK right? I used the "ssh -p 2222 -i ~/.ssh/mer-qt-creator-rsa root@localhost | 16:09 |
| MFaro-Tusino | " command | 16:09 |
| lbt | eg /home/lbt/src/untitled1 | 16:09 |
| MFaro-Tusino | okay | 16:09 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Hmm, now I get an issue with | 16:12 |
| MFaro-Tusino | (cd ..; make distclean 2>/dev/null; tar cf - --exclude /rpm --exclude .git/ --transform "s_./_${PKG}-0.1/_" ./) | bzip2 > ${PKG}-0.1.tar.bz2 | 16:12 |
| MFaro-Tusino | I am sure it is just because i am making a n00b error | 16:12 |
| stephg | what's the error | 16:12 |
| MFaro-Tusino | tar: Unknown flag in transform expression | 16:14 |
| stephg | I'm unfamiliar with the build process specifics, but are you sure ${PKG} is being set correctly? | 16:15 |
| lbt | MFaro-Tusino: echo pkg is $PKG | 16:18 |
| lbt | 10m to go so not paying much attention here .... sorry :D | 16:18 |
| MFaro-Tusino | says pkg is ChequeMate_Sailfish which is my project name | 16:19 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Thats okay | 16:19 |
| MFaro-Tusino | I can finish the buil process another time | 16:19 |
| edgars | damn | 16:19 |
| MFaro-Tusino | *build | 16:19 |
| edgars | i'mt tired of waiting | 16:19 |
| stephg | beer is the solution! ;) | 16:20 |
| lbt | edgars: good things come to those who wait | 16:20 |
| edgars | stephg: 4 beers already in me | 16:21 |
| stephg | more beers! :) | 16:21 |
| edgars | lbt: will see will see | 16:21 |
| sardini | refresh page refresh refresh refresh arghhh | 16:21 |
| * dhbiker patiently waits | 16:21 | |
| edgars | if phone will be like in video i'm a bit dissapointed :/ | 16:22 |
| sardini | 10 minutes to go | 16:22 |
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| edgars | 7 | 16:23 |
| edgars | 6 | 16:24 |
| dhbiker | 5 | 16:25 |
| * crevetor is ready | 16:25 | |
| * stephg was born ready | 16:25 | |
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| wmarone | edgars: what disappoints you about it? | 16:25 |
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| edgars | wmarone: pure touchscreen | 16:25 |
| edgars | i'm dreaming about hw keyboard | 16:26 |
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| FabianS | hw keyboard is dead. | 16:26 |
| jotik | me too. I wonder whether the "other half" can be a hardware keyboard. | 16:26 |
| wmarone | edgars: ah yes, I do want a slider | 16:26 |
| wmarone | jotik: that's what I'm hoping. | 16:27 |
| wmarone | it'd be infinitely clever | 16:27 |
| ottulo | Marc hinted at that, saying the other half can expand the hw | 16:27 |
| edgars | yupp | 16:28 |
| stephg | oooh music | 16:29 |
| edgars | slider with hw keyboard kicks ass | 16:29 |
| edgars | 1 | 16:29 |
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| edgars | ! | 16:30 |
| edgars | nothing yet | 16:30 |
| stephg | refresh! | 16:30 |
| edgars | "Hey dudes! Come later... after month or so :)" | 16:33 |
| edgars | -4 minutes | 16:34 |
| stephg | refresh, the video is running | 16:35 |
| edgars | fscking browser :) | 16:36 |
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| JvD_ | \o/ | 16:38 |
| stephg | somebody kick the AV techs the video is on loop | 16:41 |
| stephg | (meaning we on the stream get the background music every 30 seconds) | 16:41 |
| stephg | thankyou | 16:42 |
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| edgars | hmmm | 16:45 |
| dhbiker | hmmm indeed | 16:45 |
| * edgars scratchs head | 16:45 | |
| crevetor | Well that wasn't much | 16:45 |
| dhbiker | nope | 16:46 |
| edgars | hell yeah | 16:46 |
| dhbiker | expected more | 16:46 |
| edgars | maybe some specs | 16:46 |
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| dhbiker | there are specs | 16:46 |
| dhbiker | -ish | 16:46 |
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| crevetor | I'd like to know how the cover connects to the device | 16:46 |
| edgars | and damn, it's not a slider :/ | 16:47 |
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| edgars | dhbiker: didnt see cpu/ram | 16:47 |
| wmarone | crevetor: ditto, though someone else suggested NFC. | 16:47 |
| edgars | crevetor: with plastic clips :) | 16:47 |
| crevetor | lol | 16:47 |
| dhbiker | lol edgars | 16:47 |
| ottulo | crevetor: didn't notice any connectors, maybe bluetooth or smt? | 16:47 |
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| edgars | huh | 16:48 |
| crevetor | Well I'm guessing if it's nfc you couldn't get a big flash to work | 16:48 |
| shmerl | Did anyone pay attention to the device itself? | 16:48 |
| crevetor | or maybe with its own battery | 16:48 |
| edgars | back cover is "active" part of phone? | 16:48 |
| shmerl | HDMI? | 16:48 |
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| shmerl | Any other ports? | 16:48 |
| dhbiker | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxv7iXwIgno&feature=player_embedded | 16:49 |
| ottulo | 3.5mm audio and I think usb on top | 16:49 |
| ottulo | nothing on sides nor bottom, it seems | 16:49 |
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| edgars | so | 16:51 |
| edgars | what functionality that does it have? | 16:51 |
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| edgars | ohh | 16:51 |
| shmerl | So far the info on networks is very vague. | 16:52 |
| edgars | -that | 16:52 |
| shmerl | No frequencies details. | 16:52 |
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| JvD_ | i want to know what's bus/busses are accessible in back cover | 16:52 |
| edgars | shmerl: no frequencies no cores no ram | 16:52 |
| shmerl | 2 cores CPU | 16:52 |
| dhbiker | dual core | 16:52 |
| shmerl | But no details about the SoC. | 16:52 |
| edgars | 2 core... :/ | 16:53 |
| shmerl | better than 1 core N9 | 16:53 |
| edgars | then it must have 2.5ghz | 16:53 |
| edgars | or at the end of the year it will be outdated | 16:53 |
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| shmerl | So is there pull down to close or not? | 17:00 |
| gyaresu | They did their teaser marketing to get people excited. Now show us somethin to be excited about. NOT "it's a phone with covers" that may or may not have an NFC chip in them. | 17:01 |
| * gyaresu is sorry. Wrong channel. | 17:02 | |
| dhbiker | i wonder if it has the new Intel Atom in it | 17:02 |
| FabianS | Most likely arm. | 17:03 |
| dhbiker | because atom launches just before jolla "releases" it | 17:03 |
| shmerl | Probably ARM. Intel still kind of not ready, which is weird. | 17:04 |
| shmerl | They had tons of time to prepare. | 17:04 |
| dhbiker | you never know... | 17:04 |
| dhbiker | we will see | 17:04 |
| dhbiker | it's something fishy | 17:04 |
| shmerl | Well, yeah. | 17:04 |
| dhbiker | because they didn't say the specs | 17:04 |
| dhbiker | what CPU | 17:04 |
| edgars | two intel pentum 4 | 17:05 |
| dhbiker | haha | 17:05 |
| dhbiker | :D | 17:05 |
| edgars | 1.7ghz | 17:05 |
| dhbiker | OCed to 3.4 huh ? :D | 17:05 |
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| edgars | for sure | 17:05 |
| edgars | and active fan | 17:05 |
| edgars | 120mm radius | 17:05 |
| FabianS | water cooled. | 17:05 |
| edgars | mhm | 17:06 |
| dhbiker | http://jolla.com/ | 17:06 |
| dhbiker | site has changed | 17:06 |
| Yaniel | yeah | 17:06 |
| edgars | dhbiker: someone hacked it | 17:06 |
| dhbiker | works for me | 17:06 |
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| edgars | hacked and put phones profile photo on the index page | 17:08 |
| dhbiker | LOL | 17:08 |
| FabianS | Didn't change for me. | 17:08 |
| dhbiker | oh.. | 17:08 |
| dhbiker | scroll | 17:08 |
| dhbiker | :D | 17:08 |
| dhbiker | down ofc | 17:08 |
| strace | no no, scroll up | 17:09 |
| dhbiker | xD | 17:09 |
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| edgars | so | 17:12 |
| edgars | anyone placed preorder? | 17:12 |
| aard_ | edgars: we can,t do a phone with a cpu fan, someone else patented that last year | 17:12 |
| FabianS | Won't buy a product without specs and withoug release date. | 17:12 |
| aard_ | FabianS: you could still register your interest with the 0-eur-option | 17:13 |
| strace | what FabianS said and I dn't like the style... I am currently in love with uni-bodies | 17:13 |
| strace | s/dn't/don't/ | 17:13 |
| FabianS | I like the Lumia or N9 cases but Jolla looks fine too. | 17:14 |
| edgars | aard_: when we will see cpu specs? | 17:14 |
| lbt | btw - #jollamobile for the device chat | 17:14 |
| lbt | sw in here :) | 17:14 |
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| FabianS | How do notifications in Sailfish look like? | 17:24 |
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| shmerl | lbt: I guess there will be no detailed info on Sailfish itself before the actual device launch? | 17:28 |
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| lbt | shmerl: there will be another SDK release "soon" | 17:30 |
| lbt | and that will update the emulator and SDK | 17:30 |
| shmerl | I mean more like the plans on open sourcing stuff and actual applications. | 17:30 |
| lbt | yeah - that kind of detail will happen at release time | 17:31 |
| shmerl | Makes sense. | 17:31 |
| lbt | but we're doing IDE development in the open | 17:31 |
| shmerl | Yep, that's good of course. | 17:31 |
| lbt | mainly me banging away on Mer platform SDK | 17:31 |
| shmerl | Is it now flexibly installable without a VM? | 17:32 |
| shmerl | I.e. a pure chroot for the Sailfish image. | 17:32 |
| lbt | that won't happen | 17:32 |
| lbt | it needs a VM with display | 17:33 |
| lbt | I mean we *could* hack it to use RDP or something but why? | 17:33 |
| shmerl | I mean Harmattan used some stuff like extra X with Xephyr | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | ui is too complex for that | 17:34 |
| shmerl | I see. | 17:34 |
| shmerl | So it would be too slow to use | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | or not working properly | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | you really need to be close enough to device to be a good emulator | 17:34 |
| shmerl | Well, if you run in chroot with some Wayland compositor - it can work | 17:35 |
| shmerl | I mean work better. But that's the future probably | 17:35 |
| shmerl | Stskeeps: Does Jolla actually have any concrete plans for Wayland in the future? Or nothing particular? | 17:37 |
| lbt | shmerl: also our goal is to allow emulation of device | 17:38 |
| lbt | not to run in chroot | 17:39 |
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| shmerl | Well, that's anyway falls on Qemu. | 17:39 |
| lbt | we need to maximise deployment coverage with low-cost support | 17:39 |
| shmerl | Since you need to emulate the CPU | 17:39 |
| lbt | so vbox does that very well | 17:39 |
| shmerl | Vbox doesn't really emulate the device alone. | 17:39 |
| lbt | no, it's an x86 build of sailfish | 17:39 |
| shmerl | Ah, so it's not emulating ARM | 17:40 |
| lbt | and yes there are simulation challenges | 17:40 |
| lbt | nope | 17:40 |
| shmerl | OK | 17:40 |
| shmerl | In practice though users should be encouraged to test all archs. | 17:41 |
| shmerl | I already saw a weird bug with Plasma Active which surfaces on ARM only | 17:41 |
| shmerl | And it works just fine on x86 | 17:41 |
| lbt | also http://vimeo.com/62061963#at=0 | 17:42 |
| lbt | yes, and that's where developer devices come in too | 17:42 |
| shmerl | Interesting. It's hardware accelerated? | 17:43 |
| shmerl | It's using Gallium? | 17:44 |
| lbt | yep | 17:45 |
| shmerl | Cool | 17:45 |
| shmerl | Did anyone build PA images for it with this Mer adaptation? | 17:46 |
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| wmarone | which mer adaptation? | 17:50 |
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| o3one | noone alive? | 17:51 |
| o3one | ohh pardon | 17:51 |
| lbt | o3one: oh yes | 17:51 |
| shmerl | wmarone: One for Acer iconia. | 17:51 |
| lbt | but mainly chatting in #jollamobile | 17:51 |
| wmarone | ah | 17:51 |
| o3one | guys don't you mind ovi developers who want to start with a sailfish os? | 17:51 |
| lbt | o3one: you are very welcome | 17:51 |
| wmarone | sfiet_konstantin did an adaptation parallel to me, but I stopped looking at it a while ago | 17:52 |
| shmerl | I mean acer iconia w500 | 17:52 |
| wmarone | I'm trying to reproduce what he did | 17:52 |
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| o3one | so please lbt - point me to a starting point | 17:52 |
| shmerl | I see. I'm not really planning to get one, but just interesting what's going on in the tablet world. | 17:52 |
| lbt | o3one: do you have the SDK ? | 17:53 |
| o3one | lbt not yet but already downloading | 17:53 |
| wmarone | shmerl: sadly it's probably the only x86 tablet out there that will work, all the rest use Atom chips with PowerVR graphics | 17:53 |
| lbt | OK - then follow along on the sailfish site to get going | 17:53 |
| lbt | there's a tutorial | 17:53 |
| lbt | right now I'm working on the next release of the SDK too | 17:53 |
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| o3one | what about more deeper literature? | 17:53 |
| lbt | what area? | 17:54 |
| o3one | lbt - ohh! Great to hear it abt sdk | 17:54 |
| lbt | :) | 17:54 |
| lbt | the Qt libs have some api docs on the site | 17:54 |
| o3one | lbt - entertainment mobile products - gaming and native app development | 17:54 |
| Yaniel | pretty much anything Qt or QML should do | 17:54 |
| shmerl | wmarone: I see. Didn't Intel plan to push their own GPUs? They even supposed to have open source drivers. | 17:54 |
| lbt | o3one: ok - so mainly driven via Qt apis | 17:54 |
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| wmarone | they do, but it will probably be another generation | 17:55 |
| wmarone | I eagerly await that transition | 17:55 |
| lbt | but access to lower level stuff from Mer is doable | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | qt apis, opengl es2 | 17:55 |
| lbt | nb there are caveats there about API support | 17:55 |
| o3one | what abt java and air? - integration possible? | 17:55 |
| lbt | not really | 17:55 |
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| o3one | ghmm | 17:55 |
| shmerl | o3one: For gaming you better stick with the classic SDL | 17:56 |
| Yaniel | qt works too | 17:56 |
| o3one | shmerl - ahh i c ic | 17:56 |
| Yaniel | oh and someone was working on a port of the ogre engine | 17:56 |
| o3one | lbt - is there any requirements for app's developers? | 17:56 |
| o3one | Yaniel - i c nice :) | 17:56 |
| lbt | o3one: we don't have java in sailfish - though there is android app support it's not really part of SDK target | 17:57 |
| lbt | o3one: only basic pre-reqs of RAM/cpu | 17:57 |
| lbt | runs on the 3 modern platform flavours | 17:57 |
| shmerl | lbt: I remember some went through a pain of cross compiling OpenJDK for Harmattan a while ago. | 17:57 |
| shmerl | But they never normally published it. | 17:57 |
| shmerl | Something like that can happen for Mer. | 17:58 |
| lbt | shmerl: yeah - it's more for fun though, not a serious target | 17:58 |
| o3one | lbt - so started downloadin 600 mb or smth | 17:58 |
| shmerl | Yep | 17:58 |
| lbt | yup - you get Qt Creator and 2 virtual machines | 17:58 |
| o3one | lbt ahha got it | 17:58 |
| lbt | also, that is the alpha SDK, there's an update 'soon' | 17:58 |
| o3one | lbt - critical core updates? | 17:59 |
| o3one | lbt - or just some addings? | 17:59 |
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| lbt | should be mainly back compatible but we've not announced anything significant yet | 18:00 |
| Yaniel | pretty bit update I guess | 18:00 |
| o3one | got it | 18:00 |
| o3one | Guys you know I'm happy to enter here | 18:00 |
| lbt | good to have you | 18:00 |
| lbt | have fun | 18:00 |
| o3one | ahh thnx | 18:01 |
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| lbt | check topic for known issues too | 18:01 |
| o3one | already in | 18:01 |
| shmerl | lbt: What about shared community repo for stuff like SDL and the like. Is it going to be planned closer to the release? | 18:02 |
| lbt | hmm - yeah - community driven | 18:02 |
| lbt | need to push that some more | 18:02 |
| lbt | but food now | 18:02 |
| * lbt afk for a bit .... o/ l8r | 18:02 | |
| shmerl | o3one: I think using Air in general is a bad idea. Adobe kind of kills its own projects anyway. So it's a bad bet to rely on such stuff. | 18:04 |
| o3one | shmerl - i understood | 18:05 |
| Kylix | Is there any developer forums? | 18:05 |
| shmerl | Kylix: So far only TMO | 18:05 |
| shmerl | May be there will be some sailfish dedicated forum - no idea. | 18:06 |
| shmerl | http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52 | 18:06 |
| Kylix | Someone make dev forums ;) | 18:06 |
| shmerl | I propose that a while ago. | 18:06 |
| shmerl | Jolla said - let community do it ;) | 18:06 |
| o3one | shmerl: so sailfish = maemo => | 18:07 |
| Stskeeps | we have mailing list, too | 18:07 |
| o3one | ? | 18:07 |
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| shmerl | o3one: I wrote a short historic review here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89302 | 18:07 |
| o3one | shmerl: ohh thank you will read now | 18:07 |
| shmerl | Please let me know if there are inaccuracies there - I'll update it. | 18:07 |
| o3one | for sure | 18:08 |
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| shmerl | Kylix: I think having forums in addition to the mailing list is useful, but if it's not an offical sailfish sanctioned forum it will face the problem of attracting people. There was opentablets.org - it failed. | 18:23 |
| shmerl | So TMO at least has a significant audience already. | 18:23 |
| shmerl | Which on the other hand can be a problem (trolling and etc.) | 18:23 |
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| nenn3 | Can i reach an applist in the sailfish emulator? | 18:27 |
| Yaniel | drag up on the home screen? | 18:28 |
| Yaniel | if that is the one you mean | 18:28 |
| Morpog_PC | I preordered the 100€ option just after scrolling all the way down on jolla.com this noon | 18:29 |
| Morpog_PC | oops, didn't see I wasn't at end of backlog, lol | 18:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | shmerl, ITT was huge well before it became official. | 18:29 |
| nenn3 | I can see running applications(covers) but that seems to be all | 18:30 |
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| shmerl | GeneralAntilles: ITT? | 18:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Internet Tablet Talk | 18:33 |
| shmerl | It became TMO later? | 18:33 |
| shmerl | I didn't see the ITT times of it. | 18:33 |
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| o3one | As i understoood there will be appstore for sailfish os? | 18:37 |
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| shmerl | o3one: Most probably. As well as I expect community repository for open source applications. | 18:39 |
| o3one | shmerl: this is good | 18:40 |
| shmerl | But nothing is concrete yet. Jolla needs to address either dependencies resolution, or proper bundling guidelines. | 18:40 |
| Morpog_PC | you can see the store in the martin schuele video | 18:40 |
| Yaniel | what time? | 18:41 |
| shmerl | For example, if you applications depends on SDL, do you want to bundle it, or to rely on community repo? Kind of the same problem that can arise on the desktop. | 18:41 |
| shmerl | Most games bundle it to avoid the version confilcts. | 18:41 |
| shmerl | conflicts* | 18:41 |
| o3one | i c | 18:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | shmerl, yeah, it became talk.maemo.org in 2009, iirc. | 18:42 |
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| shmerl | GeneralAntilles: I see. I joined it already in Meego times :) | 18:43 |
| Morpog_PC | yaniel from !.08 on | 18:43 |
| shmerl | At the same time Meego forum was active. Then Meego was killed and everything moved to TMO | 18:43 |
| Morpog_PC | yaniel from 1.08 on | 18:43 |
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| o3one | deep into QT | 19:22 |
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| shmerl | Does Sailfish use Network Manager or connman? | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | connman | 19:53 |
| Stskeeps | go look at emulator :) | 19:53 |
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| attah | I feel quite stupid having to ask this... but i'm trying to call a c++ function in qml.. I think i managed to register it ok, but when i call it i keep getting "TypeError: Result of expression 'MyProxy.testFun' [undefined] is not a function." what did i miss? | 19:56 |
| aknight | attah: MyProxy seems to be a valid object, but testFun is not a member. is testFun marked as a slot or decorated with Q_INVOKABLE? | 19:58 |
| attah | the latter; "Q_INVOKABLE int testFun()" | 19:59 |
| shmerl | It's just historic, or there is any benefit over the network manager? | 19:59 |
| aknight | attah: hmm. you might want to re-run qmake to make sure it's getting moc'd. and you might try #qt-qml for more advice :) | 20:01 |
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| attah | aknight: okay.. I'm pretty new to this.. moc? Thanks | 20:02 |
| aknight | attah: moc is the meta-object compiler. one of the things it does is generates C++ code for that Q_INVOKABLE method so that it can be called dynamically (e.g. from QML) | 20:03 |
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| attah | aknight: then i know what too look for, seems i have some reading to do.. and here i was thinking that this gui click-to-build stuff wasn't all that bad :P again, thanks | 20:06 |
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| iekku | evening | 20:24 |
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| lbt | o/ iekku | 20:32 |
| iekku | \o | 20:32 |
| iekku | zzzzzz | 20:32 |
| lbt | *g* | 20:33 |
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| FabianS | Is it possible to install apps on the emulator? | 20:56 |
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| lbt | FabianS: yes | 21:13 |
| FabianS | How is it done? Can I ssh to the device and use RPM? | 21:13 |
| lbt | yes | 21:14 |
| lbt | :) | 21:15 |
| lbt | I was discussing OBS before | 21:15 |
| FabianS | Is there a wiki for stuff like that? | 21:15 |
| lbt | yes but we don't have account setup yet | 21:15 |
| lbt | https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Mer_OBS#Sailfish_on_OBS | 21:16 |
| lbt | now that mb build command makes an rpm | 21:16 |
| lbt | there are several issues with the spec file template and it needs modifying | 21:18 |
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