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| niqt | today all mer channel are silent, what's happen? | 08:50 |
|---|---|---|
| Nicd- | all hard at work? | 08:51 |
| iekku | jolla having iteration planning :P | 08:52 |
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| lpotter | always hard at work. even when sleeping | 09:09 |
| cybette | +1 | 09:09 |
| * cybette often dream about work | 09:09 | |
| iekku | +1 | 09:09 |
| cybette | which is not very productive actually, since the work that gets done in dreams doesn't get translated to real life | 09:10 |
| iekku | cybette, i have been wondering if i just take laptop to bed and actually start working while sleeping | 09:10 |
| cybette | iekku: you're not alone :P | 09:10 |
| iekku | cybette, that's not a surprise :P | 09:12 |
| cybette | :) | 09:13 |
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| ZFox | What's the status on Sailfish launch wise? | 10:30 |
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| iekku | ZFox, jolla will inform later when the first product launch is done | 11:57 |
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| ZFox | iekku: so no public schedule yet? | 12:33 |
| * ZFox wonders who so closed for an open project pre-launch? | 12:33 | |
| ZFox | why * | 12:33 |
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| Stskeeps | we are already publishing a lot in code in mer and nemo projects | 12:34 |
| ZFox | yes as upstream and precompiled sdk. | 12:34 |
| ZFox | to upstream * | 12:34 |
| ZFox | but there is no image that one could download and start flashing to their phones but rather only what is upstream and manually compiling everything cross platform. | 12:36 |
| ZFox | (yet) | 12:36 |
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| * ZFox is pro-jolla sorry if i seem to be against any oh the worl. i love what i can see. | 12:37 | |
| dm8tbr | the closest you can get currently is nemomobile | 12:38 |
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| tj____ | i guess by not providing pre-alpha-quality flashable firmwares is a neat way to keep down the number of people crying for support and blogging how terrible that jolla thing is.. | 12:38 |
| dm8tbr | if you have nemo running well on your hardware, then adding the sailfish bits should be easy | 12:38 |
| ZFox | dm8tbr: are the core projects i.e the ui exportable between different linux oss such as alarm? | 12:39 |
| dm8tbr | sorry, but I don't get that? | 12:40 |
| ZFox | (just compiling from source) i mean.. should there be any conflict with such a cutting edge distro? | 12:40 |
| dm8tbr | building mer/nemo is done using OBS. | 12:41 |
| ZFox | kernel specific (modules etc)? xorg being used? | 12:41 |
| ZFox | obs? | 12:41 |
| dm8tbr | getting the hardware adaptation compiled can be done on COBS if it doesn't contain proprietary bits | 12:41 |
| dm8tbr | open-build-server | 12:41 |
| ZFox | ahh | 12:42 |
| ZFox | cobs? | 12:42 |
| * ZFox rathers less accronmyns | 12:42 | |
| ZFox | ;) | 12:42 |
| ZFox | =) * | 12:42 |
| ZFox | oh another thing.. jolla/sailfish has no intentions on supporting a legacy device like the N900? | 12:43 |
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| * ZFox is on his N900 just now, sure would like moar recent things. :P | 12:43 | |
| dm8tbr | nemo works on the n900 | 12:44 |
| ZFox | alarm for N900 not quite stable or i'd be using curses for everything haha | 12:44 |
| ZFox | dm8tbr: i know, but i was asking for jolla/sailfish.. i have read somewhere that there will not be such support for the legacy device. | 12:45 |
| dm8tbr | there can't be official support for legal reasons | 12:45 |
| covox | ZFox: it's too much of a minefield | 12:45 |
| ZFox | legal reasons = screw nokia. :( | 12:46 |
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| covox | ZFox: they're already doing a brilliant job of that themselves | 12:46 |
| * ZFox wonders how everything would have gone if nokia didn't ditch maemo/meego? jolla wouldn't have formed.. would our qt enviroment for mobiles be slimmer faster and more optimized or way behind what has been done with jolla being seperate from nokia. | 12:47 | |
| covox | probably samsung would have had more of a run for their money | 12:48 |
| ZFox | but wih more and more power in less and cheaper devices most don't care for such. | 12:48 |
| ZFox | (but still should) | 12:49 |
| covox | these are really exciting times for mobile | 12:49 |
| ZFox | indeed | 12:49 |
| ZFox | 2013 + jolla = yay still waiting D: | 12:49 |
| * ZFox wants beta sailfish on his N900 or a decent computer so the sdk doesn't lagg. | 12:50 | |
| covox | I wonder what'll happen first, google snapping or samsung going mad with power | 12:50 |
| ZFox | google snapping with? samsung doing what with their overlord power? | 12:51 |
| covox | well the word on the street is that google isn't pleased that samsung is the only android licensee at the table eating all the pie | 12:51 |
| * ZFox wonders how elementry os exists still... "lets look like mac osx" *gets nothing from apple in complaint* O.o | 12:52 | |
| ZFox | ha | 12:52 |
| ZFox | nice way to put it | 12:52 |
| * ZFox has a feeling that samsung will/has forked android in such a way that they eill end p with apps that only work on samsung devices. | 12:53 | |
| ZFox | are there any non-qml ways for making an app? i.e. with a language like haskell and just pure code? | 12:55 |
| covox | there's OpenGL ES | 12:55 |
| ZFox | well.. non cpp qml* | 12:55 |
| ZFox | es? | 12:55 |
| ZFox | so many acronyms!! | 12:56 |
| covox | http://www.khronos.org/opengles/sdk/docs/man/ | 12:56 |
| covox | subset that works on mobile | 12:56 |
| ZFox | i see | 12:57 |
| covox | that way you get full control of the graphics hardware | 12:57 |
| ZFox | okay. | 12:57 |
| covox | of course, there's no widgets, so you've got to write everything from scratch | 12:58 |
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| ZFox | yea, fun fun fun. :) | 12:58 |
| covox | and you might want to use something like SDL or even QtOpenGL to manage the context | 12:59 |
| ZFox | is an app's visual requirement just a qt? | 12:59 |
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| ZFox | i mean.. like standard qt apps, not too much of a subset? | 13:00 |
| ZFox | good morning world | 13:00 |
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| * ZFox thinking about qt bindings for haskell and if it would be easy and clean to write apps for sailfish in haskell. | 13:01 | |
| * ZFox would expect so. | 13:01 | |
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| covox | "easy" is an interesting word to describe haskell | 13:03 |
| ZFox | covox: you not that familliar with the language? | 13:04 |
| covox | I had to learn it for a class 7 years ago | 13:04 |
| ZFox | sure not the easiest but personally a much preferred language for much. | 13:04 |
| covox | seemed like it was geared to do list comprehension type activities and not a lot else | 13:04 |
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| ZFox | ...? | 13:05 |
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| covox | lots of recursion, lots of joining things together | 13:05 |
| ZFox | type set so strongly that only errors you get are at compile time and io time where some resource is unaviable or fails (assuming you don't deal with the errors correctly. | 13:05 |
| ZFox | it's a functional language. | 13:06 |
| ZFox | avoid id | 13:06 |
| covox | yes, I know :P | 13:06 |
| ZFox | :) | 13:06 |
| ZFox | io * | 13:06 |
| covox | I have, for 7 years | 13:06 |
| ZFox | :D | 13:06 |
| covox | for my messy functional programming needs I have python ;) | 13:06 |
| * ZFox made a random token generator that ran randomrio for every byte to build the end string.... until i found showIntAtBase!! just got one integer and quite large and i was so thankful. :D | 13:08 | |
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| ZFox | first method made me rage :P discover Numeric and party! | 13:08 |
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| * ZFox personally hates python ;) | 13:09 | |
| ZFox | def let : () ?? | 13:09 |
| ZFox | def vs let, always made me curious to what could be the true difference? | 13:10 |
| ZFox | def for a function... why not let? logic :( | 13:10 |
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| covox | not a fan of OOP? | 13:12 |
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| ZFox | object orientated? you know of modules in haskell? you know just import them like every other module. import qualified as L and you have L.functions :) | 13:13 |
| ZFox | or types or anything that you import | 13:14 |
| ZFox | data types and records/structures are <3 | 13:14 |
| ZFox | but generally i dislike a.b.c.d.e.f() | 13:15 |
| covox | actually no, the unit was a compsci 101 thing, so the haskell learning stopped at chaining 900 things together to parse a shopping list | 13:15 |
| ZFox | saywhat? | 13:16 |
| ZFox | parsec, use it! | 13:16 |
| ZFox | do not use happy! | 13:16 |
| ZFox | :P | 13:16 |
| covox | :P let's just say it didn't teach us anything that stuck | 13:17 |
| ZFox | so you never got the hang of haskell? | 13:17 |
| covox | I think it was just to weed out the poseurs | 13:17 |
| ZFox | ... | 13:17 |
| covox | nah | 13:17 |
| * ZFox loves using haskell for cryptography. so clean code! | 13:18 | |
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| ZFox | s/sosuch | 13:18 |
| ZFox | s/so/such | 13:18 |
| covox | yeah that sounds very formulaic | 13:18 |
| ZFox | first haskell program -> irc bot, guessing game. give it 3 numbers. min max and your guess | 13:19 |
| ZFox | :D | 13:20 |
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| ZFox | oh and a mde. easy vs med vs hard (hard you get no feedback just yes/no, med you got higher or lower; easy you got your current range shown) | 13:21 |
| ZFox | mode * | 13:21 |
| ZFox | covox: ^ | 13:21 |
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| * ZFox should hit the hay. G'Night world, covox learn fore haskell! :D | 13:26 | |
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| khertan_ | How can i detect from code that i'm running on a sailfishos and not on nemomobile | 13:44 |
| khertan_ | ie : sailfish qt components available | 13:44 |
| valdur55 | except importerror. | 13:46 |
| khertan_ | roh ... | 13:46 |
| khertan_ | there is no importerror in qml | 13:46 |
| khertan_ | so it s involve creating the DeclarativeView | 13:47 |
| khertan_ | wait that errors are raised | 13:47 |
| khertan_ | could delay 1 or 2s the launch of an apps | 13:47 |
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| valdur55 | Ok. Maybe there is some ENV vars | 13:54 |
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| khertan__ | /etc/aegisfs.d | 14:00 |
| khertan__ | uh ? | 14:00 |
| Stskeeps | ignore, just a bad dependency :) | 14:00 |
| khertan__ | oh my god no, not aegis ! not in sailfish ! | 14:00 |
| khertan__ | ouf | 14:00 |
| Stskeeps | we have code from harmattan remember | 14:00 |
| khertan__ | thx Stskeeps | 14:00 |
| khertan__ | indeed | 14:00 |
| khertan__ | ;) | 14:00 |
| Stskeeps | we'll have something much worse | 14:00 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:00 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 14:00 |
| khertan__ | gniagnia ... | 14:01 |
| khertan__ | :p | 14:01 |
| khertan__ | Stskeeps, android vm .... </troll> | 14:01 |
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| khertan__ | Stskeeps, can i ask you what did you think about the mir canonical project ? | 14:09 |
| fk_lx | khertan__: btw. do you know that Canonical employees are also on this channel :-) ? | 14:11 |
| khertan__ | fk_lx, no ... but a point of view is always negativ | 14:11 |
| khertan__ | fk_lx, they could have reason to do it | 14:11 |
| khertan__ | and if i remember Stskeeps play a lot with wayland | 14:11 |
| khertan__ | so instead of hearing complain of random people which never used wayland on forums | 14:12 |
| khertan__ | but thx for the info about canonical people being also on this chan :) | 14:13 |
| khertan__ | s/is always/is not always | 14:13 |
| khertan__ | :p the lapsus | 14:13 |
| fk_lx | :-) | 14:14 |
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| crevetor | yeah it also took me very little time to port bikster to sailfishos | 15:00 |
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| khertan__ | crevetor, if you start from a harmattan apps it s trivial | 15:20 |
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| crevetor | khertan__: that was the case | 15:27 |
| crevetor | What I also like is that all the little hacks I had to use in some places for my harmattan app are gone :) | 15:28 |
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| khertan__ | crevetor, oh yes | 15:28 |
| khertan__ | same for me | 15:28 |
| khertan__ | lots of workarround for harmattan isn't needed anymore | 15:28 |
| khertan__ | i like also some details, like BackgroundItem | 15:29 |
| khertan__ | :à | 15:29 |
| khertan__ | :p | 15:29 |
| crevetor | yes | 15:29 |
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| faenil | o/ | 16:02 |
| gabriel9|work | |o | 16:03 |
| gabriel9|work | \o | 16:03 |
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| khertan__ | o\ | 16:05 |
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| gabriel9|work | who is from canonical? | 16:06 |
| gabriel9|work | maybe there is also someone from bb :D | 16:07 |
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| khertan__ | crevetor, i'm just impatient to see the components on one of my devices, as i mainly devel in train and my netbook can't run the vms | 16:23 |
| khertan__ | too few memory | 16:24 |
| khertan__ | (and cpu power ...) | 16:24 |
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| crevetor | khertan__: from where to where ? Paris/Lille ? | 18:13 |
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| suosaaski | Does sailfish use xorg or what? | 19:28 |
| lbt_ | it uses "what" | 19:32 |
| * Sage ponders what "or what" is | 19:32 | |
| Sage | suosaaski: xorg yes ;) | 19:32 |
| suosaaski | "...or something else" | 19:33 |
| lbt_ | Wayland was seriously considered but not sufficiently ready at our decision point | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | we use x11 and qt4 | 19:34 |
| lbt_ | Same goes for Qt5 | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | and that wasn't the reason for not wayland :P | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | just that our stack wasn't ready | 19:34 |
| lbt_ | "Wayland was seriously considered" | 19:35 |
| lbt_ | there you go | 19:35 |
| lbt_ | Stskeeps: don't you have some sb2 patches to OBS to upstream ? | 19:38 |
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| Stskeeps | fixing evil keyboards | 19:45 |
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| achipa | soo... is qtwebkit in or out when it comes to the sailfish sdk release? | 21:16 |
| lbt_ | in | 21:17 |
| lbt_ | go to Control Centre, pick target, manage | 21:17 |
| lbt_ | then install qtwebkit-devel | 21:17 |
| achipa | umm.. control centre? I just got the SDK and was snooping around the sysroot/target | 21:19 |
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| achipa | aha! control centre=the thing in the special (thirty-third) QtCreator build I have :) | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | achipa: we decided that mosaic-devel is all everybody needs, including max 640kb ram | 21:21 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: yes, yes, just not used to dynamic sysroots. Makes you wonder what is actually present on the device | 21:22 |
| achipa | Still, I maintain that QtCreator should just give up on even trying to have multiple targets. Per-target .user file and that's it, it's messy enough as it is. | 21:23 |
| lbt_ | if we told you it'd spoik the surprise! | 21:23 |
| lbt_ | :) ... the kit thing makes sense | 21:24 |
| achipa | yikes, I tink I taw meegotouchhh... | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | that's gone by now | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:25 |
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| lbt_ | also I'm trying to avoid over-complicating the Mer plugin by keeping things in the Control centre | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | don't have a heart attack when you see aegis, either | 21:25 |
| khertan | Stskeeps, :) | 21:25 |
| achipa | lbt_: that's cool, it's just that I don't know the name of the package I want, and it's unclear how I search/look for stuff | 21:26 |
| achipa | (well, okay, qtwebkit I knew, but now I'm trying to remember mobility...) | 21:26 |
| lbt_ | achipa: it's on my todo | 21:26 |
| lbt_ | if you're any good at ruby/jscript..... | 21:27 |
| lbt_ | patches welcome! | 21:27 |
| achipa | yes, yes :) just trying to familiarize myself for now (what else to to when waiting for a flight to LHR, right?) | 21:28 |
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| achipa | soooo #2 what's the name of the mobility-devel? (getting late apparently and my eyes are betraying me) | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | qtmobility-devel or qt-mobility-devel | 21:31 |
| achipa | BTW what's the sailfishos qmake/ifdef scope? (I know, there must be a FAQ, but my bandwidth is horrible) | 21:31 |
| ajalkane | I'm trying to build aegis to get some security to sailfish... but running into some weird problems. Anyone willing to provide some pointers? | 21:32 |
| achipa | yes, qt-mobility-devel it is... | 21:32 |
| ajalkane | Ok just kidding... | 21:32 |
| achipa | okay, total noob mode... the emulator started, but qtcreator apparently doesn't connect to it? | 21:36 |
| lbt_ | achipa: check the known issues | 21:40 |
| lbt_ | there's a few hints | 21:40 |
| achipa | lbt_: umm, no, doesn't quite address this | 21:44 |
| achipa | if I do a test device it also times out, so wrong IP/port/something | 21:44 |
| achipa | ooor, the FAQ is saying something I misinterpreted | 21:44 |
| lbt_ | there are 2 VMs? yes | 21:45 |
| achipa | yes | 21:46 |
| achipa | everything's running | 21:46 |
| achipa | but the ssh connect is borked somehow | 21:46 |
| achipa | it even does a funny "Agent admitted failure to sign using the key." if I try to ssh in manually as per the FAQ | 21:47 |
| lbt_ | ah - so the AUTH issue | 21:47 |
| achipa | admit nothing, deny everything! | 21:48 |
| lbt_ | hehe | 21:50 |
| achipa | any easy fix? (or FAQ reloaded? :) | 21:51 |
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| Morpog_Mobile | Known issues page | 21:53 |
| achipa | SSH_AUTH_SOCK= | 21:54 |
| achipa | yay, I guess | 21:55 |
| achipa | a precarious situation, when you can type 3-4 lines before a web page comes in... | 21:55 |
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| sardini | hello | 21:59 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Hi | 22:01 |
| lbt_ | achipa: ? | 22:04 |
| lbt_ | which web page? | 22:04 |
| achipa | lbt_: faq, known issues et al (crappy mobile connection, not on your side) | 22:04 |
| achipa | though still can't quite see what the sailfish qmake scope is... | 22:04 |
| achipa | (even after digesting your first app ;) ) | 22:05 |
| lbt_ | yeah - I need to review the whole build side | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | we don't have one, at the moment, i think | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | we're pretty bog standard linux qt for gles2 so | 22:05 |
| achipa | that's cool, but how do I know I'm building for sailfish and not, Ubuntu or whatnot? | 22:06 |
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| achipa | (kinda would be nice to know if I want to use silica) | 22:07 |
| lbt_ | is it blue? | 22:07 |
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| lbt_ | seriously though - we've been asked before | 22:07 |
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| lbt_ | there'll be an answer by beta release (maybe before) | 22:08 |
| achipa | If this is another "harmattan is linux so we don't need an ifdef/scope", I'm not going to be happy :) | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | i vote we see a job application from achipa so he can stop us from things like that | 22:08 |
| lbt_ | so what do you want? | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:08 |
| achipa | :P | 22:09 |
| achipa | the point is some people might have this wild idea of sharing code/projects across multiple Qt-capable mobile platforms | 22:09 |
| lbt_ | achipa: suggestions or patches on the mailing list will be seriously useful | 22:09 |
| achipa | and yes, even not counting the dead ones, still plenty left and more coming | 22:10 |
| achipa | BB10 got away with qnx{} but your case is not that easy | 22:10 |
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| achipa | still, there is a precedent/mechanism that should work | 22:10 |
| achipa | mkspecs, qplatformdefs.h and such | 22:12 |
| achipa | I mean, if it's ok to have ~/SailfishOS/mersdk/targets/SailfishOS-i486-x86/usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++-maemo/qmake.conf... :) | 22:13 |
| achipa | for now, I will use ~/SailfishOS/mersdk/targets/SailfishOS-i486-x86/usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/features/sailfishsilicabackground.prf but as said, I do expect a better way of knowing I'm running on something sailfishy | 22:15 |
| ajalkane | Agreed... this is really important for cross-platform apps | 22:17 |
| ajalkane | And all the better if it's somewhere documented so that we all don't have to be achipa-level-gurus to know how to do it :) | 22:18 |
| achipa | well, just take a look at how QtInfo does it and it will be immediately clear ;) | 22:18 |
| achipa | (forward looking statement, not sure if I can do a git push from here) | 22:19 |
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| achipa | in a worst case, just do what meeg^H^H^H^HHarmattan did, a la http://wiki.meego.com/Porting_Fremantle_Applications_to_Harmattan#Harmattan_scope | 22:21 |
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| Morpog_Mobile | Achivement unlocked: run your own #SailfishOS ambiance in the #SDK :) http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BEoA0C1CIAAkRYu.png | 22:25 |
| Morpog_Mobile | From @sfietkonstantin | 22:26 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | Morpog_Mobile: :P | 22:33 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | will try to code an app to perform that quickly | 22:33 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but not easy, since it involves root :( | 22:33 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Maybe you can get a Sailor to help or offer an easier way? | 22:35 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | nah, actually why should we ask for sailors when it is something that is already done | 22:37 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | because ambiance is implemented ... | 22:37 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | just not in the SDK | 22:37 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Can't wait for it ;-) | 22:42 |
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