| *** ChanServ sets mode: +v T4 | 02:32 | |
| *** Leif is now known as Guest75960 | 08:12 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +v T4 | 08:29 | |
| T4 | <meierrom> Leif_Erikson: Landscape mode is rather new thanks to @neochapay AFAIK :) | 09:32 |
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| T4 | <eekkelund> Landscape had been there quite long iirc :F | 09:52 |
| T4 | <eekkelund> :D* | 09:52 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> btw, what is happening here? | 10:17 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> https://necunos.com/blog/necuno-solutions-and-nemo-mobile-collaboration/ | 10:17 |
| Guest75960 | Exiting stuff. My colleage has met them in Heldinki. | 10:42 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> but what is from Nemo side? | 10:42 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Glacier is pretty in early stage of development | 10:42 |
| Guest75960 | Yes, but my company and Necunos may leverage the communuty and push the development. We think about hosting a Nemo boot camp or hackathon. | 10:45 |
| Guest75960 | I'm looking forward to have a new Nemo developer device. | 10:45 |
| Guest75960 | Bay tve way: I don't know why I'm shown as Guest. I'm Leif | 10:46 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I think the best way to push dev is to commit something :D | 10:49 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> also we need a roadmap | 10:53 |
| Guest75960 | Indeed. We think about working on the convergence use case and contribute the solution. Further more, the Nemo and,Sailfish community needs an urgent update of the standard browser | 10:54 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> in SFOS too hard to do something | 10:55 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> in Nemo we can up Qt version | 10:55 |
| Guest75960 | Modern web apos are not working any more. It's a no go for a commercial product. | 10:55 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> ofc. we need to ip gcc and qt versions | 10:56 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> and use web engine from latest qt | 10:56 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> up* | 10:56 |
| Guest75960 | I think Sailfish 3 has done this, but only for develiprs using a web view based on the chrome engine. Unfortunately Jollahadn't updated the standard browser. But I think, the browser is open source and the community could updaze the app. | 10:59 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> well if that app uses Silica it will not helpfull globally et all | 11:01 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I would concetrate at Nemo dev only, it's much more promising | 11:02 |
| r0kk3rz | sailfish browser is kinda at a dead end | 11:03 |
| r0kk3rz | and tbh nemo is a million miles from being ready for commercial product | 11:06 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> that's true :) | 11:07 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> but this is possible to done | 11:07 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I think few full-time devs can afford that | 11:08 |
| r0kk3rz | well, you think of where sailfish is now, and realise they've had 50-100 full time employees working on it since 2013 ish | 11:11 |
| r0kk3rz | some of that stuff nemo can leverage, a lot of it we cant | 11:12 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> what do you mean? | 11:12 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I need to clarify that topic: they did a lot of wrong engineering errors | 11:13 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> what results in many man-hours of dev, what can be leveraged otherwise | 11:14 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> s/errors/solutions | 11:14 |
| r0kk3rz | engineering is about trade-offs, always, just because you don't understand the trade-off doesnt make it 'wrong' | 11:15 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> oh cmon | 11:15 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> forking instead of upstreaming | 11:15 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> that's totally wrong decition | 11:16 |
| r0kk3rz | they upstream quite a lot | 11:16 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> s | 11:16 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> but also not upstream much more | 11:16 |
| r0kk3rz | lots of patches went upstream to qt for insance | 11:16 |
| r0kk3rz | *instance | 11:16 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> cool | 11:16 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> but why they still have own fork of Qt? | 11:16 |
| r0kk3rz | jolla has always has a policy of getting things upstream | 11:16 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I saw when trying to add 802.1x... | 11:17 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> connman not upstream | 11:17 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> wps_supp also | 11:17 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Qt and so on | 11:17 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I can continue that list | 11:17 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> why the hell they invent own Qt Creator | 11:18 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> with VM | 11:18 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> instead of crosscompiling | 11:18 |
| r0kk3rz | because windows and mac | 11:18 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> there are Qt for Windows and Mac | 11:18 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> take a look at Qt Creator fork | 11:22 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-qtcreator/commit/364605bbb1c2626e07db5289d865b2b74bc61b5e#diff-25d902c24283ab8cfbac54dfa101ad31 | 11:22 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-qtcreator/commit/8ce8c5e3418647e5baa7edf24719266f240499e9#diff-25d902c24283ab8cfbac54dfa101ad31 | 11:22 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> very usefull changes and very required | 11:22 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> all they have to is creating own plugin | 11:23 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> which they would send to upstream | 11:23 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> returning to our topic... I think just a few devs (not more five) is enough for getting Nemo dev to production state in one year | 11:25 |
| r0kk3rz | i also believe in faeries | 11:25 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> :) | 11:25 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> why exactly do you think I'm wrong | 11:26 |
| r0kk3rz | experience | 11:28 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> how much work needed by your estimation? | 11:31 |
| r0kk3rz | depends, you need to choose your 'minimum viable product' carefully | 11:38 |
| r0kk3rz | if you want to compete with android and ios, theres a ton of stuff people expect to be there | 11:39 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> yeah | 11:41 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> but I dont think such compete is possible | 11:41 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> just basic apps | 11:41 |
| Guest75960 | We think about a migration path. Starting with a licensed Sailfish OS and replacing step by step the Lipstickvimplementation and core apps. So we can start with a short term product with a long term open source perspective. | 11:42 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> when all is working why any should care about resources for replacing? :) | 11:43 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> @r0kk3rz [if you want to compete with android and ios, t …], SFOS is also far far away from Android and iOS state... | 11:44 |
| r0kk3rz | thats my point, yeah | 11:44 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> when I made my estimation a mean SFOS state | 11:46 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> maybe a little better — adequate browser | 11:47 |
| r0kk3rz | always with the estimations :P | 11:47 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> :D | 11:47 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I'm not a manager, but yeah, I like estimations | 11:47 |
| r0kk3rz | sooner or later you stop planning world domination and just start dominating | 11:48 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I dont want to dominate et all | 11:48 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> just want something usable | 11:48 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> without closed sources | 11:48 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> Hi together, we definately don't have the resources for Hardware Adaption and bringing Nemo Mobile to market maturity. So SFOS is currently the first option. Necunos is promising. They may provide a modern device, that supports Nemo Mobile. If a group of companies collaborate to make Nemo Mobile a mature platform, it could be possible. We | 12:05 |
| T4 | 'll work on this consortium. SFOS is ready for the consumer market but a high business risk. Depending on their strategy, they could cancel a licence anytime. | 12:05 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> that's why you are planning to replace SFOS with Nemo, right? | 12:10 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> Yes. | 12:10 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> I will depend on the results of our contract negotiation. | 12:11 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> The missing Android support if Nemo might be realised with AnBox. This works quite good on UBports. | 12:12 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> Android support will be important to get a relevant market share in the consumer market. | 12:13 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> what is the current state of Anbox? | 12:14 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> do you check level of the integration into system? | 12:15 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> I was able to install FDroid on a Fairphone 2 with UBports and install Andoird App conveniently. Yalp Store crashed while the logn process to Play Store. | 12:15 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> Good question. I haven't checked the integration of user accounts yet, because Ubports has a poor set of system wide accounts, even no CardDav. | 12:16 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> notifications | 12:17 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> calls | 12:17 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> app icon | 12:17 |
| T4 | <NotKit> it does not have any integration at this state besides app icons in launcher | 12:17 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> and so on | 12:17 |
| T4 | <NotKit> but what Android apps would need calls for? | 12:17 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> when you call in What's app | 12:19 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> for example | 12:19 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> no? | 12:19 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> when you getting incoming call | 12:19 |
| T4 | <NotKit> never tried that, but I think it does not use system dialer? | 12:19 |
| T4 | <NotKit> at least Telegram does not | 12:20 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I mean it should have integration with the UI | 12:20 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> so UI should know that there is a call in a process | 12:20 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> I don't need any Andoird apps, but most comsumer do or expect. WhatsApp, banking apps, airline apps, remote controls for some devices like fitness tracker, smart home. There are many examples. | 12:21 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I agree. | 12:22 |
| T4 | <samzn> I have had this idea to map Android components to native QtQuick ones but it's a gargantuan task I don't even know where to start | 12:58 |
| r0kk3rz | imo if you want android apps, its almost like developing two operating systems in one | 13:19 |
| r0kk3rz | @samzn im pretty sure theres material design style QML components somewhere | 13:22 |
| T4 | <samzn> Yeah, ships in mainline Qt, but mapping them all over dalvik + something like apkenv is tough | 13:23 |
| T4 | <samzn> While also retaining the expected behavior for them | 13:23 |
| T4 | <samzn> Anbox is an easy way to support them | 13:24 |
| r0kk3rz | not sure i understand what you want to achieve there | 13:25 |
| *** Leif is now known as Guest85505 | 13:39 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +v T4 | 14:28 | |
| T4 | <K31j0> Is N900 still supported? | 16:26 |
| bencoh | not by nemomobile at least | 16:27 |
| bencoh | (not that I can tell) | 16:27 |
| T4 | <locusf> it never has been supported | 16:27 |
| T4 | <locusf> meego did support it though, but not newer nomo | 16:28 |
| T4 | <locusf> *nemo | 16:28 |
| bencoh | not since nemo moved to wayland | 16:28 |
| bencoh | (and qt5) | 16:28 |
| T4 | <K31j0> there were some images :/ | 16:28 |
| T4 | <locusf> yeah x11 | 16:28 |
| bencoh | there were so pre-wayland images, yeah | 16:28 |
| bencoh | for some reason, most of those images were removed (which is kinda sad) | 16:29 |
| T4 | <K31j0> So I should either help go maemo leste or pmOS if I want to use my N900 | 16:29 |
| bencoh | and finding an image where everything worked at once was quite ... tedious (I never found one, but when I started looking for one it was too late already) | 16:29 |
| T4 | <K31j0> [Edit] So I should either go help maemo leste or pmOS if I want to use my N900 | 16:29 |
| bencoh | I'd say maemo-leste | 16:29 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +v T4 | 20:19 | |
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