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| T4 | <neochapay> @locusf https://github.com/nemomobile-ux/glacier-home/pull/80 confirm plz | 06:21 |
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| T4 | <locusf> @akaWolf [because «lipstick» doesnt really explain the p …], this "or something else" really describes well that you don't have any idea on what you're doing | 09:01 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Ofc that's not a technical knowledge, what lipstick is | 09:02 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> This is legacy | 09:03 |
| T4 | <locusf> well you're quite alone with that opinion | 09:03 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> And? | 09:04 |
| T4 | <locusf> we're fortunately not forced to take in that change btw | 09:04 |
| T4 | <locusf> so I'll close that utter stupidity of a pr now | 09:05 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> What reason? | 09:05 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> You have two packages with duplicated files | 09:05 |
| T4 | <locusf> for a good reason | 09:06 |
| T4 | <locusf> since both provide the same implementation of lipstick | 09:06 |
| T4 | <locusf> they naturally conflict | 09:06 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Why there is no conflicts section in spec then? | 09:07 |
| T4 | <locusf> since jolla doesn't give two shits about glacier and nemo doesn't give two shits about jolla | 09:07 |
| T4 | <locusf> if it were that we we're vendors working together with a shared base of packages, then yes that would make sense | 09:08 |
| T4 | <locusf> but its painfully obvious that the paths of nemo and sailfish have diverged long time ago | 09:08 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> All current builds are based upon SFOS image | 09:09 |
| T4 | <neochapay> @akaWolf [All current builds are based upon SFOS image], No | 09:09 |
| T4 | <locusf> how about you start with something thats really pertinent and useful | 09:10 |
| T4 | <locusf> like fixing something thats been broken a long time | 09:10 |
| T4 | <locusf> lets see if you have the grunt in you | 09:10 |
| T4 | <locusf> this is how @neochapay and me and all others started | 09:11 |
| T4 | <locusf> not by changing arbitrary stuff that doesn't make sense | 09:11 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I have only one phone and I want to use both home screens without reinstalling at least | 09:12 |
| T4 | <locusf> thats too bad | 09:12 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I still think that change make sense in that requirements | 09:12 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> This | 09:13 |
| T4 | <locusf> you and only you having only one phone | 09:13 |
| T4 | <locusf> is the requirement? | 09:13 |
| T4 | <locusf> sorry, but no | 09:13 |
| T4 | <locusf> not _that_ sorry though | 09:13 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Man, how should I develop something without ability to test | 09:14 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Or should I reinstall packages each time? | 09:14 |
| T4 | <neochapay> @akaWolf [Man, how should I develop something without ab …], Try to create image for virual box - it's good issue | 09:15 |
| T4 | <locusf> so you have chosen not to listen then ... | 09:15 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I understand your opinion and idea behalf it, but my vision is much more practical | 09:15 |
| T4 | <locusf> well quid pro que | 09:15 |
| T4 | <locusf> quo | 09:15 |
| T4 | <locusf> I haven't seen you do anything that would provide actual usefullness to others than just talking big | 09:16 |
| T4 | <locusf> do something else first, lets see how the merit gathers | 09:16 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> In practice I have phone with sfos and want to test nemo at that phone … Looks pretty logical that first I need to solve that problem at least minimally … Ofc I can rebase those changes each time on top of current devel, but that also doesn't sound too comfortable | 09:19 |
| T4 | <locusf> umm no | 09:21 |
| T4 | <neochapay> I think we must close this thing... | 09:23 |
| T4 | <neochapay> Plz all bugs talking must be in issue in GitHub! | 09:24 |
| T4 | <neochapay> I don't have more time to read all rubbling in chats | 09:24 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> @neochapay [I think we must close this thing...], Okay: correctness of the idea is more important then real practice influence, I see | 09:25 |
| T4 | <neochapay> @akaWolf if you want create something - try to create! Don't move and broke - just add new functional for start | 09:25 |
| T4 | <faenil> Guys, guys, let's chill out, let's go for a more relaxed tone please | 09:26 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> @neochapay [@akaWolf if you want create something - try to …], What will broke those mr? | 09:27 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> @neochapay [@akaWolf if you want create something - try to …], I tried to explain that for testing that's handy to have different names and not conflicting packages | 09:29 |
| T4 | <faenil> the technical reasons were already provided, we need a proper way to switch homescreens, renaming files + manual patch cannot be the official way, but you are free to keep it as a hack for your purposes. Rebasing on top of that should not cause any conflict. So you can test the way you prefer ;) | 09:30 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> But I had left unheared | 09:30 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> @faenil [the technical reasons were already provided, w …], Okay | 09:30 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Maybe that's actually not only for me | 09:31 |
| T4 | <faenil> Then you can provide a patch for people who want to go that way, but we all agree it's more of a hack then a proper solution, so I am not sure it belongs to the main brancj | 09:32 |
| T4 | <faenil> So you can post a patch and instructions on the wiki, which could be useful to other people | 09:33 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Let's create the way which can be official then | 09:33 |
| T4 | <meierrom> @akaWolf: maybe you can come up with a switching framework? | 09:35 |
| T4 | <faenil> I am sure everyone would be happy for you to start implementing a cleaner way to handle that | 09:35 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Do you have idea how to do that? | 09:36 |
| T4 | <faenil> That said, I am not a DE expert, so I'd look for an expert or start looking at the details of how that problem is usually tackled | 09:37 |
| T4 | <faenil> That said, I am not against the renaming per-se, I think it will have to be done, eventually. Also, I am not up to date with lipstick's implementation, so take my words with a pinch of salt | 09:43 |
| T4 | <faenil> But the current PR is more of a testing hack than a reliable solution, as the others explained. I hope that clarifies things a bit | 09:45 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> @locusf [well quid pro que], Btw, that's called meritocracy | 09:47 |
| T4 | <meierrom> @akaWolf: keep it up :) | 10:02 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Anyway it will be the part of changes required for changing home screens, yeah | 10:08 |
| r0kk3rz | imo it would be better to start hacking lipstick so we can have different homescreens ie. glacier and manhattan | 10:35 |
| r0kk3rz | forget silica homescreen | 10:35 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> yeah, sounds reasonable | 10:47 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> can we discuss !87? does we need that .desktop file? | 11:03 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> https://github.com/nemomobile-ux/glacier-home/pull/87 | 11:04 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> @locusf I see you the only one contributor of that file. can you say something? | 11:45 |
| T4 | <meierrom> r0kk3rz: Excluding sfos ui, really? | 12:03 |
| r0kk3rz | @meierrom: we cant control what jolla does | 12:03 |
| T4 | <meierrom> I think it would be nice to be able to switch to sfos ui as well. | 12:06 |
| r0kk3rz | you can only do that by swapping lipstick implementations | 12:08 |
| T4 | <meierrom> r0kk3rz: now I understand why @akaWolf wanted to rename it. :) | 13:35 |
| T4 | <meierrom> So we will have multiple lipsticks... | 13:37 |
| r0kk3rz | i really dont see what the big deal is about removing and installing a different package | 13:37 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> we have one unstable home screen and one stable; I'm using unstable one, testing it and see: there is a bug, I cant call. but I need to call. what should I do? manually write commands to reinstall packages? yeah, I need to make an emergency call, for example | 13:40 |
| r0kk3rz | i dont see how that is functionally different from writing commands to stop and start a systemd service | 13:41 |
| coderus | Don't use debug device as main driver, blame only yourself. | 13:41 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> that is already easier: no need to have both rpms | 13:42 |
| r0kk3rz | erm. yes there is | 13:42 |
| r0kk3rz | how else are they installed? :P | 13:42 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> they are installed, you can delete cache | 13:42 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> no need to store whole rpm file | 13:43 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> and each time reinstalling it | 13:43 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> and yeah, that would be the first step | 13:43 |
| r0kk3rz | so? | 13:43 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> next is to create something that would allow to choice | 13:44 |
| r0kk3rz | you can manipulate installed packages through packagekit | 13:44 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I have only one SIM, how should I test it? | 13:44 |
| r0kk3rz | your scenario is a bit poor anyway, the adaptation and middleware are identical | 13:46 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> but this is still the use-case! | 13:47 |
| r0kk3rz | are you going to have two diallers installed too ? | 13:50 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> yep | 13:50 |
| r0kk3rz | not sure if that will even work | 13:50 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> why not? | 13:51 |
| r0kk3rz | and regardless, you dont need to swap lipstick to use a different dialler | 13:52 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> yeah I know | 13:52 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> that's needed for testing home screen | 13:52 |
| r0kk3rz | so im trying to imagine a case where you need to swap homescreens in some kind of emergency | 13:53 |
| r0kk3rz | and there isnt really one, you'd reboot the device and carry on | 13:53 |
| r0kk3rz | theres already hooks into mce to restart lipstick if it crashes anyway | 13:54 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> that was just an example | 13:55 |
| r0kk3rz | sure | 13:55 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> if I need to switch on light | 13:55 |
| r0kk3rz | an example that doesnt make sense | 13:55 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> more realistic example | 13:55 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> right? | 13:56 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> flashlight I mean | 13:56 |
| r0kk3rz | ok so, you're fumbling around in the dark, and going to quickly switch back to silica to engage the led flash | 13:56 |
| r0kk3rz | this seems even more contrived than the last example | 13:56 |
| r0kk3rz | we also have apps that can turn on the led :P | 13:57 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I can't give you more realistic example since I didn't test it | 13:59 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I agree that stopping and starting different systemd services requires some kind of work | 14:00 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> but in my vision that's better than reinstalling rpms | 14:01 |
| r0kk3rz | well, maybe learn a little about how all the pieces fit together before trying to change them | 14:01 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> dont think it will change anything in my opinion, but maybe you are right | 14:02 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> what about desktop file? | 14:04 |
| T4 | <meierrom> So we will have multiple lipsticks... | 14:18 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I still sure that we need to implement some mechanism which will allow to easily change home screens | 14:20 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> [Edit] I'm still sure that we need to implement some mechanism which will allow to easily change home screens | 14:20 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah it would be cool, like i said we already have two different homescreens | 14:23 |
| r0kk3rz | glacier and manhattan | 14:23 |
| r0kk3rz | and seperating out the compositor and dbus handling from the UX layer seems like a good idea | 14:24 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> also it would be nice to make common mechanism with Jolla's one | 14:24 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> home screen | 14:24 |
| r0kk3rz | we could sell the idea to them | 14:24 |
| r0kk3rz | they like showing off how easy it is to modify sailfish to customer requirements | 14:25 |
| r0kk3rz | different homescreen UX is part of that | 14:25 |
| r0kk3rz | they've come up with some fairly radical different examples ive seen | 14:26 |
| T4 | <locusf> that would only work if jolla wanted another ux | 14:26 |
| r0kk3rz | @locusf: for instance ive seen an abomintaion gestureless homescreen of jollas | 14:26 |
| r0kk3rz | buttons everywhere | 14:26 |
| T4 | <locusf> ermahgerd | 14:26 |
| r0kk3rz | i know, it was horrible | 14:28 |
| r0kk3rz | so i might be able to convince them its a good idea, but who knows if they'll have time to review and test the PR | 14:30 |
| r0kk3rz | they're getting better at that | 14:30 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> r0kk3rz, can you try to build commit c68302603cca24e36da275ef9cb77c5cf0e73691 locally? | 14:30 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> of glacier-home | 14:30 |
| r0kk3rz | not right now | 14:31 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> okay, please let me know when you can :) | 14:32 |
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| T4 | <akaWolf> which rpmbuild version have obs? | 19:40 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> @neochapay https://github.com/nemomobile-ux/glacier-home/pull/87#issuecomment-434057519 | 20:01 |
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| r0kk3rz | should be the same as in the sdk | 21:47 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> can you try to build locally? | 21:51 |
| r0kk3rz | i also dont see why the version would make a difference, OBS usually complains and fails builds with unpackaged files | 21:54 |
| mal | r0kk3rz: local build of devel branch of glacier-home does indeed fail | 21:54 |
| r0kk3rz | mal: yeah im wondering why it doesnt on obs, seems weird | 21:55 |
| mal | where is devel branch built on OBS? | 21:55 |
| r0kk3rz | nemochapay project - https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:neochapay:nemo-ux/lipstick-glacier-home-qt5 | 21:56 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> chapay noted in comment | 21:56 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> yeah | 21:56 |
| mal | no idea why that worked | 21:59 |
| mal | but wouldn't be the first time when OBS behaves very differently compared to local builds | 22:00 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> so there is a problem, but my MR is closed | 22:03 |
| mal | it can be reopened | 22:23 |
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