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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +v T4 | 05:55 | |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> Today I will try to pick up the open questions about the Lipstick implementation. … It's a messy puzzle. We are investing months now to evaluate Sailfish OS and Nemo Mobile as platform for an iOS and Android alternative. … For a customization of the system UX, the discussions and the | 07:13 |
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| T4 | Glacier project itself confirm, that Lipstick is the apropriate platform component to implement our csutomization requirements. … Unfortunately, there is almost no documentation and no avalable resources. We asked several communities and local and off shore development companies for ressources with skills for Sailfish OS respectively Nemo Mobile s | 07:13 |
| T4 | kills with no success. | 07:13 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> I'll try to summarize the open questions: | 07:13 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> 1. How can Glacier UX be build and deployed? … 1.1. How does the platform sdk be prepared? | 07:15 |
| r0kk3rz | Marc == Leif_Ericsson? | 07:33 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> 1. How can Glacier UX be build and deployed? … 1.1. How does the platform sdk needs to be prepared? … 1.2. Which terminal commands has to be executed? … 1.3. How can the build and deployment process be automized? … 2. How can Lipstick be impemented, build and deployed in general? … 2.1 | 07:34 |
| T4 | . Is a Lipstick based artifact an app, a library or a service? … 2.1. What tells the target system to use the artifact as a system UI? … 2.1. Which project files must contain with information? … 2.1.1 What needs to be added to the pro file for the purpose? … 2.1.2 What needs to be added to the spec file the the purpose? … 2.1.3 What needs to be ad | 07:34 |
| T4 | ded to the essential service file? … 3. Where is a documentation of Lipstick? … 3.1. How can a documentation eventually created from the source? | 07:34 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> @r0kk3rz [Marc == Leif_Ericsson?], Same company, same project | 07:35 |
| r0kk3rz | ah ok | 07:37 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> I admit that the chat may not be the right place for clarifying these questions. But the questions show the need for documentation and resources we are looking for. | 07:37 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> The better the documentation and the availability of resources, the more likely there is a chance that an alternative to Android and iOS will find a broad base and be commercially taken up by businesses for a broad audience. | 07:40 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> We are grateful for any advice: freelancers, companies or online documentation. We are also willing to host a boot camp or similar that interested newcomers, Mer and Nemo Mobile can learn. | 07:42 |
| r0kk3rz | we went through a lot of this stuff yesterday | 07:42 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> [Edit] We are grateful for any advice: freelancers, companies or online documentation. We are also willing to host a boot camp or similar that interested newcomers can learn Mer and Nemo Mobile development. | 07:42 |
| r0kk3rz | you may have invested months, but if you want to build a product with this stuff you'll need to invest years | 07:44 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> @r0kk3rz [we went through a lot of this stuff yesterday], It seems that the Nemo Mobile joint venture consists of a few very experienced developers. We experience a lot of encouraging, helpfulness here and in other chats. The clues, however, seem like a puzzle to me. | 07:45 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> @r0kk3rz [you may have invested months, but if you want …], Man years. Sure. | 07:45 |
| r0kk3rz | actual years | 07:45 |
| r0kk3rz | not man years | 07:46 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> We start with a realistic scope. The first step is to select a stable, mature platform. Sailfish/Nemo and UBPorts is on our shortlist. Next step is to find a way for modification. We make progress in some essentual stuff, but the convergence use case makes headache. The introduced wind | 07:51 |
| T4 | owed apps in Glacier are promising. | 07:51 |
| r0kk3rz | ubports already has convergence | 07:52 |
| r0kk3rz | i saw it working like, 3 years ago | 07:53 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> Yes, we have conference call with the board soon. Maybe we will choose this platform, although we prefer the clear minimalistic design of Sailfish. | 07:56 |
| r0kk3rz | then you need an agreement with jolla | 07:57 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Sfos is closed source | 07:57 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> Indeed, we would need an agreement. But first we need a successful poc before, because the agreement is a significant investment. | 07:58 |
| r0kk3rz | you should really pay jolla to come up with the proof of concept | 07:59 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> @akaWolf [Sfos is closed source], Mainly the Lipstick implementation layer and the basic apps. The advantage would be professional support, that would speed up the product development. They are experienced in hardware adaption. Even with high daily rates of Jolla it will be less expens | 08:00 |
| T4 | ive, thant doing this on our own. | 08:00 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> @akaWolf [Sfos is closed source], [Edit] Mainly the Lipstick implementation layer and the basic apps. The advantage would be professional support, that would speed up the product development. They are experienced in hardware adaption. Even with high daily rates of Jolla it will be less | 08:01 |
| T4 | expensive, than doing this on our own. | 08:01 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> You can pick Glacier | 08:01 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> For me I decide to stop investigating time into sfos and take a look into nemo | 08:02 |
| r0kk3rz | glacier will require a lot of your own investment to get it up to silica standard | 08:02 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Ofc | 08:03 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> @akaWolf [You can pick Glacier], This is indeed an option. But the Mer Wiki says, that the core apps are not stable for a commertial product, yet. | 08:03 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I think this is cheaper | 08:03 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> We may mix ist up. We start with Sailfish OS and migrate to Nemo Mobile in long term roadmap. | 08:04 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Yeah | 08:06 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> @akaWolf [I think this is cheaper], The license costs are very fair. The point is, where we can find skilled developers. | 08:06 |
| r0kk3rz | 'not stable for commercial product' is a huge understatement | 08:07 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> A learning curve of internal developers with a different background can be very expensive. | 08:07 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Hm, you can try to get @neochapay | 08:07 |
| r0kk3rz | neochapay works for OMP | 08:07 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> He is not a slave | 08:08 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> :) | 08:08 |
| r0kk3rz | who said he was? | 08:09 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> I would work at Nemo project... | 08:10 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> No matched at Gulp.de for Nemo Mobile or Sailfish | 08:10 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> [Edit] No matches at Gulp.de for Nemo Mobile or Sailfish for example. | 08:11 |
| r0kk3rz | thats unsurprising | 08:11 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Yeah | 08:11 |
| r0kk3rz | everyone with experience in this stuff is usually working for Jolla or OMP, or gainfully employed elsewhere | 08:19 |
| r0kk3rz | however, these guys are ex-jolla and run their own consulting company - https://crimson.no/ | 08:21 |
| r0kk3rz | robin was one of the original people who developed lipstick | 08:21 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Looks interesting | 08:23 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> We already asked Basyskom and Crimson for resources. Unfortunaly Robin is fully booked, but he will look for resources for us. | 08:23 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> [Edit] We already asked Basyskom and Crimson for resources. Unfortunaly Robin is fully booked, but he will look for resources for us. We also asked Jolla. | 08:24 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> It would be no problem for me or a colleague of mine to fly for a hands on kickoff to Finnland. We are almost neighbours. | 08:27 |
| r0kk3rz | *sigh* telegram, whhy you so annoying | 08:28 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> ? | 08:29 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> How many people do you need? | 08:29 |
| kimmoli | Please, do not edit telegram posts. Do not use reply, unless replying to some ancient message. And fix your username: https://telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me | 08:33 |
| r0kk3rz | thanks kimmoli | 08:34 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> I'm very sorry for violating the Telegram guidelines. I won't reply any more. What's wrong with my user name? I can't see any violation of the guidelines. | 08:37 |
| r0kk3rz | @Marc you havent set a username | 08:37 |
| tbr | what we see coming from you: | 08:37 |
| tbr | 08:37:09<+T4> <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> I'm very sorry for violating the Telegram guidelines. I won't reply any more. What's wrong with my user name? I can't see any violation of the guidelines. | 08:37 |
| T4 | <Marc (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)> Oha. I thought Marc Aurel is my username | 08:38 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Hah | 08:38 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Just set and nvm | 08:38 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> I'm sorry for that. I didn't notice, that a username was missing. | 08:43 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> Do I have username now? | 08:43 |
| r0kk3rz | much better | 08:44 |
| T4 | <locusf> yes | 08:44 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> How many popele we need, depends on what we can outsource, for example the hardware adaption and preferable the platform development and maintenance. So we can focus on high level features. For the poc we need at least one additional resource this year. | 08:47 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> Early next year we need more resources for the next stage. | 08:47 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> One man doesnt look too imposdible | 08:51 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> @locusf , can you explain me why you argue with my proposal about switching home screen? | 08:52 |
| r0kk3rz | imo you'll need more than one person | 08:53 |
| r0kk3rz | getting multiscreen support into lipstick is a major task on its own | 08:53 |
| r0kk3rz | and thats not getting into anything in the ux layer | 08:54 |
| T4 | <locusf> @akaWolf [@locusf , can you explain me why you argue wit …], not right now, maybe later | 08:54 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> Okay | 08:54 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> Indeed. It shouldn't be. I'll check further keywords at Gulp. Maybe we ask Hays, but they are extremely expensive. | 08:54 |
| T4 | <akaWolf> You need mult screen to proof? | 08:55 |
| r0kk3rz | @akaWolf: you would consider a convergence POC without external display support to be sufficient? | 08:56 |
| T4 | <m_aurel> Advantageously, a second screen should be supported. That seems to be possible, according to Jolla. In principle, to show that it is possible to adapt the system to an external monitor, synchronized output would be sufficient. It does not have to be an external monitor, but can also be an external device via USB OTG like the Superbook fro | 09:12 |
| T4 | m Sentio. | 09:12 |
| Leif_Erikson | Hi, I have installed the lipstick developer package on the sdk's build engine successfully. | 13:12 |
| Leif_Erikson | Then I have checked out the developer branch of Glacier UX. | 13:12 |
| Leif_Erikson | If if build the project, I get the following error: | 13:12 |
| Leif_Erikson | Project ERROR: nemodevicelock development package not found | 13:12 |
| Leif_Erikson | Do have to install this package either on the build engine with the platform sdk? | 13:13 |
| Leif_Erikson | What is the command? sb2 -t $VENDOR-$DEVICE-$PORT_ARCH -R -m sdk-install zypper in nemodevicelock-development? | 13:14 |
| Leif_Erikson | It seems, that not everything is defined in the .spec file of the project? | 13:14 |
| mal | maybe you should add dependency repo to the target, sb2 -t $VENDOR-$DEVICE-$PORT_ARCH -R -m sdk-install ssu ar some_alias some_url | 13:17 |
| Leif_Erikson | So "some_alias" would be any name like "glacier-repo" and "some_url" the url of a required git repository for nemodevicelock development package? | 13:25 |
| mal | that packages should be available in official jolla repos | 13:40 |
| mal | so are you now building in platform sdk or the application sdk? | 13:42 |
| mal | what do you mean by build engine? | 13:42 |
| Leif_Erikson | The build engine of the app sdk contains the full platform sdk. | 14:06 |
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