| faenil | pavelm_ left... mm | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| M4rtinK2 | faenil: I *think* that was probably Pavel Machek | 00:15 |
| faenil | M4rtinK2: I hope he comes back :) thanks for the headsup | 00:15 |
| M4rtinK2 | faenil: he is running mainline kernel on his N900 & contributes to N900 kernel mainlining | 00:16 |
| faenil | I see... | 00:16 |
| M4rtinK2 | I saw his talk about that back in November | 00:16 |
| faenil | cool stuff | 00:16 |
| M4rtinK2 | pretty interesting | 00:16 |
| M4rtinK2 | sure | 00:16 |
| faenil | let's hope he tries again tomorrow ;) | 00:16 |
| M4rtinK2 | but unfortunately still not that usable | 00:17 |
| M4rtinK2 | hopefully | 00:17 |
| M4rtinK2 | he should be in the EU timezone | 00:17 |
| M4rtinK2 | so no wonder he went offline | 00:17 |
| faenil | :) | 00:18 |
| M4rtinK2 | it might actually also be a good idea to hit the deck :) | 00:19 |
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| locusf | m2ko: eekkelund: any other reports than status bar size increase? | 10:51 |
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| faenil | locusf: I'm going to build Nemo with OE today :) or, well, try to get it to build | 12:15 |
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| locusf | faenil: cool :) | 12:48 |
| faenil | locusf: finally received the hdd enclosure, can free some hdd space, because that was my problem XD | 12:49 |
| locusf | hahah yes | 12:51 |
| locusf | those multiple source trees do kinda get pretty big | 12:52 |
| locusf | faenil: just ping my way if you need help, kido too | 13:08 |
| kido | :) | 13:09 |
| faenil | locusf: any known blocker? | 13:09 |
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| locusf | faenil: hmm | 14:01 |
| locusf | I don't really know | 14:01 |
| locusf | other than we don't have that many bsp's | 14:01 |
| faenil | locusf: I'll be building for n950 | 14:02 |
| locusf | ok | 14:02 |
| locusf | I hope I got something to git in order to help your work | 14:03 |
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| tbr | hmm, if we have something for N950, I'd give it a try | 14:06 |
| faenil | tbr: well, we have images built with mic, but I want to get OE (mainly because of Qt5.6) building an image for n950 | 14:10 |
| faenil | so that I can resume the work on glacier components | 14:10 |
| tbr | ah | 14:11 |
| tbr | nice idea | 14:11 |
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| tbr | especially if you have the machine to pull this off on | 14:11 |
| tbr | oe is hungry hungry hippo | 14:12 |
| faenil | tbr: I'm trying to get rid of a 320gb image I have on my hdd to make space for hacking experiments | 14:13 |
| faenil | but it's got 7h left.... | 14:13 |
| tbr | ugh | 14:13 |
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| locusf | my image builds generally take 20 minutes from clean | 14:53 |
| locusf | but it fails since the rpi2 egl headers are wrong | 14:53 |
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| faenil | locusf: how can it take 20mins? you have to compile Qt, webkit, everything | 15:02 |
| locusf | 750 raid1 + -j8 | 15:03 |
| locusf | oe is good at parallelizing | 15:04 |
| locusf | (dunno if thats we way to say it) | 15:04 |
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| faenil | locusf: j8 is nowhere near enough to build a whole OS in 20mins | 15:06 |
| faenil | you can *maybe* build only webkit, in 20mins, with j8 | 15:06 |
| locusf | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ_f35bVFCM | 15:06 |
| locusf | the video sucks since its just systemd | 15:07 |
| locusf | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua4AP67yppk | 15:10 |
| locusf | memory -> nvme ssd | 15:10 |
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| locusf | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wlqz_wMHI0 | 15:11 |
| locusf | my old desktop | 15:12 |
| locusf | z77 | 15:12 |
| faenil | locusf: no caching? I can't believe that | 15:16 |
| locusf | well all caching is done by zfs I can say that | 15:16 |
| faenil | I mean if you have cached object files then surely it can take 20 mins | 15:17 |
| faenil | but that's not "from scratch" | 15:17 |
| locusf | well there aren't any | 15:18 |
| locusf | I did rm -rf tmp-glibc | 15:18 |
| locusf | ah bloody hell | 15:18 |
| locusf | it starts compiling some after fetch | 15:18 |
| locusf | but still | 15:18 |
| locusf | lemme time that in a moment | 15:19 |
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| faenil | locusf: did you publish the n950 OE files anywhere? | 16:16 |
| locusf | I did | 16:16 |
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| locusf | check my oe branches on my profile | 16:17 |
| faenil | oki thanks | 16:17 |
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| pavelm_ | Hello, everyone. | 16:43 |
| pavelm_ | ..and sorry for leaving without saying goodbye yesterday. | 16:43 |
| pavelm_ | M4rtinK2, faenil: Yes, that's me. And yes, EU time zone. | 16:44 |
| faenil | pavelm_: o/ | 16:44 |
| M4rtinK2 | hi! :) | 16:44 |
| faenil | no worries :) | 16:44 |
| pavelm_ | M4rtinK2: and ... the n900 _is _ getting better. Can even do voice calls now ;-). | 16:44 |
| pavelm_ | M4rtin: Hi! | 16:45 |
| M4rtinK2 | cool! :) | 16:45 |
| faenil | pavelm_: filippz spent a lot of time on n950's kernel, he first worked on 3.5.3, which is what we're using, and months ago he started focusing on v4.X mainline support for n950 :) | 16:45 |
| M4rtinK2 | I think it was still one-way back in November :) | 16:45 |
| pavelm_ | Its just that... I now got n9/n950, too, and am wondering what to do with them. I'd prefer something usable so that I could focus on N900, but.... | 16:46 |
| faenil | pavelm_: let's hope Sony speeds up upstreaming of xperia devices, that would be super cool :) | 16:46 |
| pavelm_ | faenil: I have not seen any real progress there :-(. Samsung is doing something, that might be usable sooner. | 16:46 |
| faenil | pavelm_: mm no, we can't give you something to use as daily driver, sorry :/ | 16:46 |
| * M4rtinK2 would also like to give his N950 a new life :) | 16:46 | |
| faenil | pavelm_: no progress on Sony's side? they seem quite proactive :/ | 16:47 |
| faenil | working on 4.x support.. | 16:47 |
| pavelm_ | faenil: I did not see anything reasonable, but I don't watch that closely. | 16:47 |
| faenil | ok | 16:47 |
| locusf | http://developer.sonymobile.com/2016/02/17/work-on-the-mainline-kernel-for-open-xperia-devices/ | 16:47 |
| pavelm_ | faenil: N950 should be in pretty good shaepe. | 16:47 |
| faenil | pavelm_: the kernel maybe, not Nemo | 16:47 |
| faenil | not even sure you can make calls on 3.5.3 btw | 16:48 |
| faenil | (on n950) | 16:48 |
| M4rtinK2 | what about Nemo images ? are there any recent ones for the N950 ? | 16:49 |
| pavelm_ | locusf: Well... Sony... cool, but they don't even have graphics and wifi, and they don't even mention GSM/UMTS... | 16:50 |
| faenil | not uploaded, but you can build one easily, the kickstarter file is at my repo | 16:50 |
| M4rtinK2 | pavelm_: well they at least mentioned working on Freedreno | 16:50 |
| locusf | pavelm_: for graphics theres freedreno | 16:50 |
| locusf | yeah | 16:50 |
| pavelm_ | What is the "canonical" hardware to run Nemo on? Jolla? | 16:53 |
| locusf | heh | 16:53 |
| locusf | well fp2 is the newest | 16:53 |
| locusf | Jolla port is not for the faint of heart | 16:53 |
| pavelm_ | N9/N950 seems to be pretty useless without nokia servers. I can't even get terminal installed :-(. But it has need for speed... | 16:54 |
| locusf | https://locusf.wordpress.com/2014/12/11/nemo-mobile-distribution-installation-on-a-jolla-device/ | 16:54 |
| pavelm_ | So... N950 is still the best hardware to run Nemo on, but could not be recommended for daily use? | 16:54 |
| M4rtinK2 | pavelm_: IIRC is is possible to use third party mirrors to get around that | 16:55 |
| pavelm_ | I had Nemo on N900, and it was surprisingly usable... (but a dead end due to graphics). | 16:55 |
| M4rtinK2 | pavelm_: https://openrepos.net/content/ancelad/n9-repomirror | 16:55 |
| * filippz reads backlog | 16:57 | |
| faenil | pavelm_: the problem is, we're missing a reliable UI toolkit, let alone core apps | 16:57 |
| faenil | pavelm_: I think that was when Jolla sailors were basically developing the core apps | 16:58 |
| faenil | but they haven't been touched since | 16:58 |
| pavelm_ | M4: Yes, I found and installed n9repomirror_0.7.2_armel.deb , and some stuff can be installed, but could not find any terminal :-( | 17:00 |
| faenil | we've been blocked for a couple of years because of the Nemo-Mer merge happening | 17:00 |
| locusf | waking up from hibernation :) | 17:01 |
| faenil | hehe | 17:02 |
| pavelm_ | faenil: Qt5 does not work well? I'm using python+gtk3+X11 on N900. That's rather old stuff, but seems to work well. | 17:02 |
| faenil | pavelm_: it does, you still have to develop apps though... | 17:02 |
| pavelm_ | I don't need that many apps. Give me keyboard, emacs, mutt, web browser, ofono client and I'll be mostly happy... | 17:03 |
| pavelm_ | faenil: is it easy to run gtk3 applications? (Perhaps under X11 emulation?) | 17:04 |
| M4rtinK2 | well the possibility of the Jolla apps & Silica being open sourced is still being discussed | 17:04 |
| M4rtinK2 | but in any case I would not bet on that | 17:05 |
| M4rtinK2 | at least for now | 17:05 |
| locusf | http://images.devaamo.fi/nemo/n9/nemo-armv7hl-rnd-02272016.tar.bz2 | 17:05 |
| M4rtinK2 | pavelm_: I started rebuilding GTK3 packages from Fedora on the Mer OBS a while ago, but haven't got very far | 17:05 |
| faenil | pavelm_: I don't think anyone has ever tried | 17:05 |
| M4rtinK2 | pavelm_: https://build.merproject.org/project/show/home:MartinK:sailfish:gtk3-f22 | 17:06 |
| faenil | locusf: oh so we do have an updated image :) | 17:06 |
| faenil | that should go on the wiki :) | 17:06 |
| M4rtinK2 | locusf: cool! :) | 17:06 |
| r0kk3rz | there was some work into wayland anyway | 17:06 |
| r0kk3rz | xwayland | 17:06 |
| * M4rtinK2 is connecting his N950 | 17:07 | |
| M4rtinK2 | r0kk3rz: well, GTK3 should work fine with Wayland only | 17:07 |
| filippz | regarding an image - I thing that we still don't have a solution for statefs (http://www.merproject.org/logs/%23mer/%23mer.2016-01-19.log.html#t2016-01-19T23:25:24) | 17:10 |
| pavelm_ | locusf: Thanks for the link. | 17:10 |
| filippz | if I understand it correctly kmod got updated but systemd didn't - hence they don't work well together | 17:10 |
| pavelm_ | M4: Well.. there's still chance to run fedora (or debian) in chroot ;-) | 17:11 |
| faenil | filippz: yeah I think that's what happened | 17:11 |
| pavelm_ | What is "silica"? | 17:12 |
| filippz | and without statefs we don't have battery information and other sensor related stuff :/ | 17:12 |
| M4rtinK2 | pavelm_: the Qt Quick component set used on Sailfish OS | 17:13 |
| M4rtinK2 | pavelm_: https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/silica/ | 17:13 |
| filippz | I think we should really think about next target device(s) | 17:13 |
| pavelm_ | M4: thanks! | 17:13 |
| M4rtinK2 | np :) | 17:13 |
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| r0kk3rz | filippz: i think pi2 was suggested at fosdem | 17:15 |
| M4rtinK2 | what about VMs ? | 17:15 |
| locusf | argh vms | 17:16 |
| M4rtinK2 | having a working VM image could help a lot | 17:16 |
| M4rtinK2 | especially to application developers | 17:16 |
| locusf | I started to look at VMs before FOSDEM 2015, then forgot | 17:16 |
| locusf | yeah | 17:16 |
| filippz | VM could prove really useful | 17:18 |
| M4rtinK2 | the easier it is for people to run Nemo | 17:18 |
| M4rtinK2 | in any form | 17:18 |
| pavelm_ | VMs make sense. | 17:18 |
| M4rtinK2 | the more likely it is people will contribute | 17:18 |
| faenil | yeah... | 17:18 |
| pavelm_ | qemu should have reasonable support for N900, maybe it can support N950 too? | 17:18 |
| M4rtinK2 | for example I would like to try running modRana & Universal Components on Nemo | 17:19 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK2: should work with qtcontols just fine | 17:20 |
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| pavelm_ | Ideally, the applications should be usable on desktop, too. (You still want your address book). Should make development easier, too. | 17:20 |
| M4rtinK2 | r0kk3rz: yep, but a Glacier backend for UC might be also nice ;-) | 17:21 |
| M4rtinK2 | pavelm_: I wrote this: https://github.com/M4rtinK/universal-components | 17:21 |
| M4rtinK2 | pavelm_: if you use that instead of a specific component set, you can run your app on mobiles & desktop without the need for app code changes | 17:22 |
| M4rtinK2 | more or less :) | 17:22 |
| pavelm_ | M4: Nice! | 17:22 |
| pavelm_ | M4: Actually, i'd be ok with application running on desktop but using phone widgets. It does not have to be perfect, just good enough for development. | 17:23 |
| M4rtinK2 | currently covers Silica & Qt Quick Controls component sets | 17:23 |
| filippz | locusf: regarding Pi2 - do you have some sort of BOM for tablet? Ie what else besides Pi2 itself do I need? | 17:24 |
| M4rtinK2 | tha covers Sailfish OS (Silica) and Nemo/Desktop/Android (Controls) | 17:24 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK2: faenil wants to qtcontrols2 the components so no point yet | 17:24 |
| faenil | :) | 17:24 |
| M4rtinK2 | r0kk3rz: I guess that makes sense | 17:24 |
| M4rtinK2 | r0kk3rz: also I guess making a Controls2 UC backend could be also useful :) | 17:25 |
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| locusf | filippz: it needs the official touchscreen | 17:38 |
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| locusf | filippz: or well, just run it via hdmi | 17:39 |
| locusf | its not really that necessary | 17:39 |
| locusf | keyboard + mouse do work | 17:39 |
| locusf | or at least _should_ | 17:39 |
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| deztructor_ | filippz: what it is the problem /w statefs? from the log you referencing faenil is interested where conf files are coming from. If so, they are updated by the package in the postinstall phase, see statefs.spec | 17:49 |
| faenil | deztructor_: but systemd fails to parse them | 17:50 |
| faenil | (as you can see in the log) | 17:50 |
| faenil | I don't even remember how that discussion is related to statefs, fwiw :) | 17:51 |
| faenil | oh, I think they're two separate discussions... | 17:52 |
| filippz | locusf: thanks | 17:53 |
| deztructor_ | systemd fails to parse? it should be just basic env setup files var=value | 17:54 |
| filippz | faenil, destructor_: statfs can't start without no conf files, as systemd refuses to start it | 17:55 |
| filippz | I'm not sure what should create those conf files - I figured that it might have something in common | 17:55 |
| faenil | filippz: though this is not related to the /run/tmpfiles.d/kmod.conf:2] Can't parse device file major/minor '- 10:236' error...is it? | 17:56 |
| faenil | (that's what your link points to) | 17:56 |
| deztructor_ | just because it uses standard EnvironmentFile=/etc/sysconfig/statefs/*.conf | 17:56 |
| deztructor_ | it should be fine | 17:56 |
| deztructor_ | systemd service file has std directive to use env file | 17:57 |
| filippz | we don't have anything in /etc/sysconfig/statefs/ and systemd wont' start because of it | 17:57 |
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| filippz | are those conf files meant to come from some package or created at runtime ? | 17:59 |
| deztructor_ | they are created by package, see statefs.spec | 17:59 |
| deztructor_ | of course, you can just use EnvironmentFile=-<path_here> | 18:00 |
| deztructor_ | but it'd be better to setup env vars properly | 18:00 |
| deztructor_ | while it should use some default values (and these values are not universally suitable) | 18:01 |
| filippz | they seem to be missing from https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/statefs-qt/blob/master/rpm/statefs-qt5.spec | 18:02 |
| filippz | maybe they should be packaged somewhere else | 18:02 |
| eekkelund | locusf: No other reports | 18:04 |
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| deztructor_ | filippz: statefs-qt are client libs to access statefs, and statefs service code is https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/statefs | 18:09 |
| locusf | eekkelund: ok | 18:12 |
| filippz | deztructor_: thanks, that makes more sense :) | 18:18 |
| pavelm_ | locusf: I don't think Rapsbery Pi is great idea. | 18:37 |
| locusf | pavelm_: I know | 18:37 |
| pavelm_ | ...you'd need quite a lot of peripherals to have something usable. | 18:37 |
| locusf | yeah | 18:37 |
| pavelm_ | ...and then debug the hardware. Best if someone else does that :-) | 18:38 |
| locusf | if I get some of that sony mainline effort useable with fp2 | 18:38 |
| locusf | then thats the different story | 18:38 |
| pavelm_ | What's wrong with N950? | 18:38 |
| locusf | too old | 18:38 |
| pavelm_ | Well... old is good. It means that there's at least chance for mainline support ;-) | 18:38 |
| pavelm_ | (My main complaint would be "no SD card slot") | 18:39 |
| filippz | pavelm_: If interesed, these are patches for N9 (and N950 to some extent) for mainline - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ogx2nbzoxfdhal6/linux.tar.bz2?dl=1 | 18:53 |
| pavelm_ | filippz: I believe mainline support for n950 should be pretty good already. | 18:56 |
| pavelm_ | I guess GPS would be reverse engineered. | 18:58 |
| pavelm_ | ...and bluetooth cleaner up and merged... | 18:58 |
| pavelm_ | filipz: ok, it seems there's some more stuff missing. | 19:04 |
| pavelm_ | filipz: Against which version are they? | 19:04 |
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| filippz | pavelm_: IIRC 4.5-rc4 | 19:23 |
| filippz | on N950 primary concern is display support | 19:24 |
| filippz | then BME on both | 19:24 |
| filippz | and of course PVR stuff is not great - I get timeouts and those kinds of things | 19:25 |
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| faenil | locusf: is this all I need ? https://github.com/locusf/meta-n950 | 19:59 |
| pavelm_ | filippz: BME is power management? | 20:01 |
| M4rtinK2 | I *think* it stands for Battery Management Entity | 20:10 |
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| faenil | pavelm_: what M4rtinK2 says | 20:19 |
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| pavelm_ | Heh, actually power management is biggest problem on n900 too. It refuses to sleep in my config, so battery life is poor. | 20:39 |
| pavelm_ | And the video... its said. Not even my desktop runs Wayland. And yes I think I do have accelerated graphics, but my desktop would be ok with framebuffer. | 20:39 |
| pavelm_ | And now... qt5 on cellphone means it needs the latest and greatest graphics technology :-( | 20:40 |
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| faenil | pavelm_: I don't think it was qt5 that required the move to wayland. It was because X11 is just a pita to work with and is a big beast. Wayland is the future, hence Jolla opened the trail | 20:42 |
| faenil | it could have been that they were forced to move for some other reason that I don't remember atm, though | 20:43 |
| faenil | w00t surely knows ^ | 20:43 |
| pavelm_ | Yes, I know wayland is the future. But I guess my cellphone should wait to enter the future after my desktop does ;-). | 20:49 |
| pavelm_ | Ok, its true that all the acceleration looks really cool. | 20:49 |
| r0kk3rz | faenil: pretty sure it was hybris that made them use wayland | 20:52 |
| faenil | r0kk3rz: oki | 20:52 |
| faenil | thanks | 20:52 |
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| M4rtinK2 | actually there mobile UI usecases where GPU acceleration help quite a bit | 20:59 |
| M4rtinK2 | like kinetic scrolling | 20:59 |
| M4rtinK2 | various feedback animations also help if used correctly | 20:59 |
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