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| GasBrander | hi | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
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| sledges | hai | 00:05 |
| GasBrander | just found the irc server and channel via maemo.og | 00:06 |
| GasBrander | n9 user :) | 00:06 |
| sledges | welcome GasBrander ! :) | 00:06 |
| GasBrander | thanks :D | 00:08 |
| GasBrander | im trying to get nemo working again grmbl | 00:09 |
| sledges | good good, many things changed since ;) | 00:10 |
| GasBrander | haha | 00:10 |
| GasBrander | do you mean the new version? | 00:10 |
| GasBrander | are you also a n9(00) user? | 00:10 |
| sledges | the new technology used | 00:10 |
| sledges | n9 | 00:10 |
| sledges | n900 is sitting on the desk looking at me (belonged to friend, now display always black ;), i'm still todo repairs on it) | 00:11 |
| GasBrander | haha nice | 00:11 |
| GasBrander | i love the n900 | 00:12 |
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| GasBrander | i have a usb port broken simcard problem and a broken stand :P | 00:12 |
| GasBrander | what do you run on your N9? | 00:13 |
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| qwazix_ | echo 0 > /sys/devices/omapdss/display0/lpm enables low power screen on N9 | 00:15 |
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| MFaro-Tusino | qwazix on nemo? | 00:15 |
| qwazix_ | MFaro-Tusino, yep (on harmattan too) | 00:16 |
| sledges | GasBrander: used as daily phone (harmattan), until i snapped usb socket. then months later used paintstripper gun to reflow a new one, and using to test nemo only at the moment | 00:16 |
| MFaro-Tusino | yeah i knew it was on Harmattan, but didn't know it was on nemo | 00:16 |
| * sledges tries | 00:16 | |
| qwazix_ | nemo doesn't have a low power screen interface, but setting that bit works | 00:16 |
| qwazix_ | (makes everything 3bits color) | 00:17 |
| MFaro-Tusino | Cool | 00:17 |
| sledges | qwazix_: amazing! | 00:17 |
| sledges | and framerate is horrible, but would be enough to play pacman :D (cc: alterego ) | 00:17 |
| qwazix_ | hehe, now try opening filemuncher | 00:17 |
| sledges | i mean, scrolling and everything, still works :)) | 00:17 |
| GasBrander | sledges did you really break the usb of the N9? are these also crappy made? or did you drive over it with your car while it was in the charger? | 00:18 |
| MFaro-Tusino | So I am ref lashing Harmattan, doing a clean install of memo again | 00:18 |
| sledges | GasBrander: something more like second option ;) | 00:18 |
| MFaro-Tusino | My N9 seemed to have died half way through installing Sailfish yesterday, and I couldn't gain root access :/ | 00:18 |
| GasBrander | :P | 00:18 |
| qwazix_ | autocomplete was invented so you can have something to turn off after you get a new gadget | 00:19 |
| sledges | qwazix_: filemuncher gone bananas | 00:19 |
| qwazix_ | sledges, :P | 00:19 |
| sledges | :)) | 00:19 |
| sledges | zleepy times z) | 00:20 |
| qwazix_ | yeah, I've got to go too | 00:20 |
| sledges | nemo as alarm clock mmmm | 00:21 |
| sledges | lpmmm | 00:21 |
| sledges | ;) | 00:21 |
| sledges | thanks qwazix_ | 00:21 |
| qwazix_ | i didn't do anything, just playing | 00:21 |
| sledges | that's the part of doing :) | 00:21 |
| qwazix_ | (first time booted nemo on N9) | 00:21 |
| GasBrander | goodnight sledges | 00:21 |
| sledges | gnite | 00:22 |
| qwazix_ | so I had to try something different | 00:22 |
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| GasBrander | is there anybody here who can help me with nemo? i have installed ubiboot and tarred nemo to /dev/mmcblk0p4.but after selecting 2.6.32.54 kernel there is only a black screen which i can only shutdown with pressing power button 10 sec:\ | 00:30 |
| GasBrander | when booting | 00:30 |
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| M4rtinK | GasBrander: on N9 ? | 00:52 |
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| vakkov | Good morning! Is there a wayland n900 image or one needs to make his own .ks file | 06:05 |
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| locusf | sledges: sure, why? | 07:37 |
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| stephg | morning everyone! | 08:18 |
| Stskeeps | morn stephg | 08:18 |
| stephg | happy Friday! | 08:18 |
| fk_lx | stephg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0 | 08:22 |
| fk_lx | :-P | 08:22 |
| stephg | dear god | 08:22 |
| stephg | ;) | 08:22 |
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| wazd | moo all :) | 08:25 |
| Stskeeps | moo wazd | 08:25 |
| fk_lx | wazd: hi | 08:25 |
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| faenil | m000000 | 08:27 |
| stephg | moooOOOooo | 08:28 |
| niqt | morning | 08:28 |
| wazd | the more I use I;;ustrator, the more I don't understand why is it so expensive | 08:28 |
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| wazd | Looks like a damn beta | 08:28 |
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| fk_lx | wazd: what isn't a beta today? | 08:32 |
| wazd | fk_lx: well, quite a few are being selled for $1K :D | 08:34 |
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| valdur55 | All ok: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6528823/ ? | 08:56 |
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| faenil | valdur55, no, definitely not | 09:01 |
| faenil | uninstall mesa and reinstall ti omap stuff | 09:01 |
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| valdur55 | yea, after that. It didn't boot :D | 09:03 |
| faenil | valdur55, meh -.p | 09:04 |
| faenil | :P | 09:04 |
| valdur55 | stayed in nemo splash scren | 09:07 |
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| faenil | valdur55, no wonder, you got rid of its graphics drivers :P | 09:10 |
| valdur55 | ;) | 09:12 |
| valdur55 | and i used zypper dup , as you see. | 09:12 |
| faenil | valdur55, yeah I know, long lasting issue | 09:12 |
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| faenil | ssu ur before dup should fix that | 09:12 |
| valdur55 | why not zypper up ? | 09:13 |
| valdur55 | dam.. zypper ref | 09:13 |
| faenil | yes ssu ur + ref + dup | 09:13 |
| faenil | ref refreshes the repository, ur updates the *list* of repositories | 09:13 |
| valdur55 | ok :) i my mistake :D | 09:14 |
| faenil | the problem is you're missing the repository with the ti-omap stuff, so when you dup it doesn't find omap stuff anymore and install its alternative, mesa | 09:14 |
| faenil | no it's a bug, you shouldn't need to do ur | 09:14 |
| faenil | but we haven't got rid of that issue yet :) | 09:14 |
| valdur55 | ok:) | 09:14 |
| valdur55 | ok. booted nicely | 09:15 |
| faenil | cool :) | 09:15 |
| wazd | ooook, my blackberry dev alpha B has just died :( | 09:15 |
| valdur55 | not so cool. | 09:15 |
| faenil | wazd, it's a sign :D | 09:15 |
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| wazd | faenil: I have no other phone on my hands, but otherwise yes :D | 09:15 |
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| faenil | wazd, :D what are you working on | 09:19 |
| wazd | faenil: it was just lying still charging | 09:19 |
| faenil | wazd, no I meant graphics wise :) | 09:19 |
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| valdur55 | Damnit.. i should learn words for english test.... I am to lazy for that and i play with nemo & harmattan | 09:30 |
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| wazd | faenil: not much, basicaly developing grids for different DPIs | 09:34 |
| faenil | wazd, oki | 09:34 |
| wazd | faenil: based on this: http://developer.android.com/design/style/metrics-grids.html | 09:34 |
| wazd | faenil: since you can't do anything without this stuff :P | 09:34 |
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| faenil | wazd, :) | 09:35 |
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| faenil | wazd, so I guess you read qwazix_'s blog post about "u" ? | 09:44 |
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| wazd | faenil: yep | 09:49 |
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| sledges | morn! | 10:18 |
| wazd | sledges: whoa | 10:18 |
| sledges | locusf: because the bug was not 100% fixed, now all done and dusted | 10:18 |
| sledges | faenil: valdur55: the issue should be sorted during very first boot (ssu ur is oneshot), but if anything goes wrong during first boot (as it happens often) - we're screwed :) | 10:21 |
| faenil | ehehe | 10:21 |
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| sledges | (sounds too weird, because if oneshot is not run, it should run again on next reboot...) | 10:23 |
| sledges | so needs to be looked into.. | 10:24 |
| M4rtinK | careful with oneshot, IIRC its naming is quite misleading & its documentation not that clear | 10:25 |
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| locusf | sledges: ok | 10:29 |
| sledges | M4rtinK: thanks; i'd think it works, because it executes many other tasks successfully. just need to look. I think it executes ssu ur too, but the ssu itself fails to add adaptation0 during that early run for some reason | 10:29 |
| * sledges speculations speculations | 10:30 | |
| * sledges back to paid work :) | 10:30 | |
| faenil | :) | 10:31 |
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| xavinux | hi people | 11:04 |
| stephg | ahoy | 11:05 |
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| faenil | hi | 11:10 |
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| sledges | hy | 11:28 |
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| xavinux | sledges: very nice video of glacer UX | 11:48 |
| xavinux | looks very nice | 11:48 |
| sandy_locke | sledges: xavinux : Vidéo ? Where ??? | 11:49 |
| xavinux | here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKiGdIQraCQ | 11:50 |
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| sledges | thanks xavinux | 12:04 |
| sledges | is just the beginning ^_^ | 12:05 |
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| zbenjamin | guys btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0 | 12:30 |
| zbenjamin | fk_lx: damned you were faster ;) | 12:30 |
| fk_lx | zbenjamin: hehe :-) | 12:32 |
| zbenjamin | fk_lx: you did have that link in your clipboard since yesterday didn't you? ;) | 12:33 |
| zbenjamin | now after i heared that i need to dig up some really really black black metal ;) | 12:35 |
| sledges | black friday metal | 12:37 |
| fk_lx | sledges: +1 | 12:37 |
| fk_lx | btw. guys are you aware that Rebecca Black took part in Kate Perry videoclip about Friday | 12:38 |
| fk_lx | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlyXNRrsk4A | 12:39 |
| fk_lx | she is there at the party at some point ;-) | 12:39 |
| fk_lx | for those who don't want to go through a whole video clip check at 1:45 | 12:42 |
| zbenjamin | fk_lx: wtf rly ;) is this the friday sequel ? ;) | 12:44 |
| fk_lx | :-D | 12:44 |
| fk_lx | #nemomobile has become Rebecca's Black fanclub ;-) | 12:45 |
| zbenjamin | lolol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi00ykRg_5c | 12:47 |
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| sledges | xD | 12:50 |
| zbenjamin | do you guys know this ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgSqw4z4FSw | 12:50 |
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| faenil | fk_lx, yeah, I always wondered why she was part of perry's video xD | 13:23 |
| faenil | until I heard of her song | 13:23 |
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| sledges | wazd: we are having a wild thought of apps packaging up SVGs, and resizing to PNGs on-install ;) | 13:46 |
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| locusf | hmrh I don't remember my mic2 command line out loud, so can't create a viable image | 13:59 |
| locusf | Warning: repo problem: nothing provides kernel-adaptation-n950 needed by pattern:nokia-n950-support-wayland-.noarch, | 14:00 |
| sledges | locusf: sudo mic cr fs nemo-armv7hl-n950-rnd.ks --pkgmgr=zypp --arch=armv7hl --tokenmap=MER_RELEASE:latest,NEMO_RELEASE:latest,SSU_RELEASE_TYPE:rnd,FLAVOUR:devel --copy-kernel --pack-to=nemo-n950-rnd-20131206.tar.bz2 | 14:07 |
| sledges | mic2? | 14:07 |
| sledges | O_o | 14:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | ._. | 14:08 |
| locusf | got it, thanks | 14:08 |
| locusf | magnet:?xt=urn:btih:ZMI5LQZQRNXYQPPWAZTA62YKVA2BSKZY&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80%2Fannounce | 14:13 |
| locusf | sledges: ^ | 14:14 |
| sledges | shazaam! :) | 14:14 |
| sledges | thanks locusf | 14:14 |
| locusf | np :) | 14:14 |
| sledges | wiki updated | 14:17 |
| sledges | standing by for tbr ;) | 14:17 |
| sledges | you'll get a beer from me for this mess :) | 14:17 |
| sledges | during fosdem | 14:17 |
| locusf | lol thx :) | 14:18 |
| vgrade | re fosdem, is there a get together? | 14:18 |
| Stskeeps | i'm going, at least | 14:18 |
| * fk_lx also plans to go | 14:19 | |
| sledges | nemo huddle :) | 14:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | i wish i could go | 14:19 |
| * w00t won't promise anything | 14:21 | |
| vgrade | there was a deal on eurostar in jan feb but excluded the fosdem weekend. | 14:21 |
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| wazd | sledges: it would be too blurry I must say :( | 14:21 |
| w00t | every year when I promise I'll go to fosdem, it never frigging happens | 14:21 |
| Stskeeps | w00t: go this year or i will spank you | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:22 |
| wazd | sledges: you have to fit image to the pixel grid (at least partially) for the best experience | 14:22 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: last year i was at a wedding! totally not my fault | 14:22 |
| wazd | sledges: and if you just rasterize svg blindly it would be blurred for sure | 14:22 |
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| ZogG_laptop | wazd: \o | 14:25 |
| wazd | w00t: it's yours unless it was actually your wedding :D | 14:25 |
| wazd | ZogG_laptop: o/ | 14:25 |
| fk_lx | :-) | 14:25 |
| wazd | ZogG_laptop: My BB died today :D | 14:25 |
| wazd | and now it has a very intresting feature - it's getting warm with battery inserted | 14:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | wazd: i saw the tweet | 14:26 |
| wazd | ok, I have to visit operator's office to switch simcards one more time, bbl | 14:28 |
| sledges | wazd: thanks for that input, can't wait to PoC nevertheless it's a playground | 14:29 |
| sledges | :) | 14:29 |
| wazd | sledges: and btw it will not save much space or anything, cause usually icons are made with heavy raster effects so svg will still contain high res rasterized layers | 14:32 |
| wazd | sledges: like, how would you imagine something like this vectorized :D https://itunes.apple.com/ru/app/real-racing-3/id556164350?mt=8 | 14:33 |
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| sledges | wazd: im talking where applicable | 14:37 |
| sledges | 95% cases | 14:37 |
| sledges | and it's not about saving space | 14:37 |
| wazd | sledges: Do I understand it right and we're talking about app icons? | 14:38 |
| wazd | sledges: cause if I am, then I don't know what 95% are you talking about: https://play.google.com/store/apps/category/GAME?hl=ru | 14:40 |
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| sledges | we are talking about all graphics that will scale with the 'u' | 14:41 |
| sledges | im not game-oriented, so 95% was coming my personal phone use case | 14:43 |
| sledges | essentially - theme graphics and stock apps icons | 14:44 |
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| wazd | sledges: it's not a big deal for a descent designer to create 4 sizes of each icon, it's not as hard as it might look, especially when you have a vector source for it :) | 14:46 |
| wazd | sledges: so it would rather be just extra-work for programmers and a semi-descent result in the end | 14:47 |
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| rcg | wazd, well, taking what you totally out of context ;) : so many things are "just" some "extra work", i lost track about it :D | 14:56 |
| rcg | *what you said | 14:56 |
| sledges | wazd: we are not going android way of 4 sizes | 14:58 |
| sledges | why copycat? ;P | 14:58 |
| sledges | 'u' can be any float | 14:59 |
| sledges | as per qwazix_'s blog - nemo aims to be on any device form factor (we'll think later about navigational aspects) | 15:00 |
| wazd | sledges: it's not copycating, it's, well, logic, or mathematics, call it whatever you like :) | 15:00 |
| fk_lx | isn't the 'u' concept similar like one on Ubuntu Touch? | 15:00 |
| sledges | whether it will be semi-decent | 15:00 |
| sledges | PoC will tell | 15:00 |
| sledges | surely, you are giving early warning, due to grids you are reading about | 15:00 |
| sledges | but still that's not enough to take wind out of our sails ;) | 15:01 |
| sledges | it's a playground, and i will repeat myself, i (or anyone else who's burning with desire to do it) can't wait to try that svg game, even if we crash and burn afterwards | 15:02 |
| wazd | sledges: I'd rather invest all of possible free (designer's)into comming up with some crazy exciting concept for homescreen | 15:03 |
| sledges | im not a designer | 15:03 |
| wazd | sledges: That's why I've pointed that correction out :) | 15:03 |
| wazd | sledges: test is always a good idea :) | 15:03 |
| wazd | sledges: especially if you're passionate about it | 15:03 |
| wazd | sledges: it won't harm to test and fail in our situation, so we can do virtually anything we want :) | 15:04 |
| wazd | sledges: unless we have a deadline tomorrow :D | 15:04 |
| sledges | +1 | 15:04 |
| wazd | sledges: so you're messing up with interesting coding concepts, I'm messing around with logo and color schemes and backgrounds, it stretches the imagination quite well. | 15:05 |
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| sledges | dam rite ;) | 15:10 |
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| wazd | sledges: speaking of which, are you fine with current quite an android 4+ looks of Glacier? | 15:11 |
| dalecooper | o/ peops | 15:12 |
| dalecooper | wazd: what do you propose then ? | 15:12 |
| wazd | dalecooper: \o | 15:12 |
| dalecooper | have you a draft to show suggestions ? | 15:12 |
| sledges | 4+ looks are as long as blue controls go | 15:12 |
| sledges | but that's negligible compared to the rest | 15:13 |
| dalecooper | except from the textfields, I don't see android 4+ in glacier | 15:13 |
| wazd | dalecooper: I can definitely come up with something if you let me :D | 15:13 |
| sledges | (in my very personal opinion i liked original hurrian's mockup the most, with embossed icons+controls; but most of us desided to go flat ;)) | 15:13 |
| faenil | I was about to say "who are you dalecooper ?" :D | 15:14 |
| sledges | :D me too | 15:14 |
| dalecooper | lol | 15:14 |
| dalecooper | sorry | 15:14 |
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| sandy_locke | it's me look ^:D | 15:14 |
| sledges | android 4+ on/off switches look like a small version of our buttons *g* | 15:15 |
| sandy_locke | emboss can be good, but skeuomorphic is dangerous | 15:16 |
| wazd | sledges: it looks as an android as long as someone sees the UI in your hands and asks "oh, is it android?" | 15:16 |
| wazd | sledges: guess what will happen right now :) | 15:17 |
| sledges | citing Hurrian : "It’s a primarily high-contrast UI with light, airy text on dark backgrounds, borrowing heavily from contemporary design paradigms : Android 4.x <...>" | 15:18 |
| wazd | sledges: oh, that makes sense :) | 15:18 |
| wazd | sledges: so, are you happy with it? I'm just asking for an opinion :) | 15:19 |
| wazd | sledges: no catch :D | 15:19 |
| sledges | 15:13 < sledges> but that's negligible compared to the rest | 15:19 |
| sandy_locke | but wazd, if you can come up with an awsome UI concept, I want to see it | 15:19 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: I can come up with multiple ones for you to choose :) | 15:19 |
| sandy_locke | but we need sth if we have to consider changing *everything* ! | 15:19 |
| sledges | everyone's free to play wazd ;) | 15:20 |
| sandy_locke | because this is what you're proposing, changing all that we made until now... | 15:20 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: par example have you been in here when I was showing my "zooming" concept? | 15:20 |
| sandy_locke | nope, shoot a link | 15:20 |
| * sledges imho needs to see that zoom in action :/ | 15:20 | |
| sledges | and that was 'feel' not the 'look' you were demonstrating wazd ;) | 15:21 |
| wazd | sledges: yeah, it works better in my mind for sure :D | 15:21 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: a sec | 15:21 |
| wazd | sledges: are you good at Qt? Mind to create the most simple PPoC demo? | 15:21 |
| wazd | PoC* | 15:22 |
| sledges | (i like the navigational concepts of glacier, it can be skinned unlike any android, and we -are- making glacier easily skinnable - breeze will be the first candidate) | 15:22 |
| wazd | like just a gesture test | 15:22 |
| sledges | wazd, gladly, but i need to be better at Qt/QML to make this PoC in an acceptable timeframe ;) | 15:23 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: in order of zooming out with edge-swipe up: 1) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/Jolla/Goldfish%20UI/1.png 2) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/Jolla/Goldfish%20UI/2.png 3) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/Jolla/Goldfish%20UI/3.png | 15:23 |
| wazd | sledges: no rush at all :D | 15:23 |
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| wazd | sledges: anything would be better than these lousy images | 15:24 |
| sledges | well, if we linger forever, current concept will simply go ahead ;P | 15:24 |
| sandy_locke | wazd: yeah, I see where you're getting at | 15:24 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: the UI is sorta "behind" the data of the app | 15:25 |
| sandy_locke | it's nice, only it needs for devs to design their apps with this spec in mind | 15:25 |
| sandy_locke | although I like the concept | 15:26 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: it has a "forced bar" feature (as seen with media player) for bottom/top bar to be always visible | 15:26 |
| sandy_locke | only bottom bar is forced in your example | 15:27 |
| sandy_locke | full zoom don't show top bar | 15:27 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: well, imagine the same transparent panel on the top :) | 15:27 |
| sandy_locke | if top and bottom bar are always vsisible it almost kills the concept IMHO | 15:28 |
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| wazd | sandy_locke: yes, but it's the "transitional" solution | 15:28 |
| sandy_locke | because there's almost no point in unzooming (or zooming from 2 to 1) | 15:28 |
| sandy_locke | what do you mean ? | 15:29 |
| sandy_locke | you mean the transition is the concept, right ? | 15:29 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: if you need to somehow port your android UI 1to1 to Nemo | 15:29 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: consider it as stupid as "console app" | 15:30 |
| sandy_locke | I don't follow | 15:30 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: well, you're not forced with a stick to use the feature of fullscreen | 15:30 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: you can use it partially or don't use at all | 15:31 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: but users will not appreciate it sometimes | 15:31 |
| sandy_locke | yes ofc | 15:31 |
| sandy_locke | but the idea is good if toolbars change from one state to the other | 15:31 |
| sandy_locke | that's what I was saying | 15:31 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: ah, of course they are :) | 15:32 |
| sandy_locke | not in your example, but I guess it shows the concept anyhow ;) | 15:32 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: it's that media player type that is not quite as demonstrative | 15:32 |
| sandy_locke | wazd: you'd have to show the concept using several apps examples to be constructive, otherwise it's just a proposal for media player app, you see ? | 15:33 |
| sandy_locke | you have to show how it could be implemented OS wide | 15:34 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: these pictures were not supposed to be shown anyway so it's all I have got right now | 15:34 |
| sandy_locke | ofc no pb with that | 15:34 |
| sandy_locke | but you see where I'm getting at | 15:34 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: it was just a showcase that I can come up with something different if you want | 15:35 |
| sandy_locke | right now I like the concept, but don't see how to implement it on other aspect of the o | 15:35 |
| sandy_locke | *OS | 15:35 |
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| wazd | sandy_locke: I think I'd be able to create some HTML demo | 15:36 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: for all to behold with different apps :D | 15:36 |
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| sandy_locke | that'd be nice :) | 15:36 |
| sandy_locke | btw, I saw your discussion with qwazix the other day, about what our goal is when we propose new concepts | 15:36 |
| sandy_locke | and I suggest you to read qwazix 's blog about that | 15:37 |
| sandy_locke | we explain a lot of our intentions there | 15:37 |
| wazd | ok, I guess I've read everything already, but sure :) | 15:38 |
| sandy_locke | we do not change UI concepts just to change them, we try to answer some user's concernes, begining by ours | 15:38 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: that's what I was actually saying back then | 15:38 |
| sandy_locke | maybe I misread you then | 15:39 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: about innovation for the sake of innovation | 15:39 |
| sandy_locke | mmmh... | 15:39 |
| sandy_locke | then you don't understand | 15:39 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: and solving current problems and user concerns | 15:39 |
| sandy_locke | answer user's concerns is not innovation for innovation | 15:39 |
| sandy_locke | it's enhancement | 15:40 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: no I understand it totally | 15:40 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: We were arguing about bottom status bar | 15:40 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: my point was that "it's down there cause it's different from others" is not a valid reason to do it | 15:40 |
| wazd | and don't fix what's working and so on | 15:41 |
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| sandy_locke | but it is not "there cause it's different from others" | 15:41 |
| sandy_locke | we try to answer concerns here | 15:41 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: I asked everyone what was wrong with previous generations of top statusbars | 15:41 |
| sandy_locke | a rant to other statusbar that do not allow to access conncectivity quickly | 15:42 |
| wazd | sandy_lockeL nobody answered | 15:42 |
| sandy_locke | when you need to connect to a wifi network for instance, you always have to go to prefs pane | 15:42 |
| sandy_locke | with our statusbar, it's two tap away | 15:42 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: that's what statusbar for, to show statuses, not to hold all possible settings in the world | 15:43 |
| sandy_locke | most users don't just turn wifi on or off most of the time | 15:43 |
| sandy_locke | they want to select their wifi network when on the go | 15:43 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: it's two taps away in harmattan, maemo 5, maemo 4, maemo 3... | 15:43 |
| sandy_locke | that's where you are stubborn wazd ;) | 15:43 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: no, you don't answering my question | 15:44 |
| sandy_locke | in harmattan & al, it still opens pref pane | 15:44 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: My question is "what is wrong with top statusbars" | 15:44 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: no it's not | 15:44 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: it opens AP list | 15:44 |
| wazd | with connect button | 15:45 |
| sandy_locke | inside pref pane ;) | 15:45 |
| sandy_locke | check again ;) | 15:45 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: een if it's inside of devils headquarters, I need two taps to connect | 15:45 |
| wazd | even* | 15:45 |
| sandy_locke | ok | 15:45 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: so there's no improvement on that side | 15:46 |
| sandy_locke | but is not the whole point of designing a UI ? changing stuffs to be more user friendly ? | 15:46 |
| sandy_locke | yes, because it's not only about wifi | 15:46 |
| sandy_locke | it offers enhanced controls quickly for all connectivity including battery | 15:47 |
| wazd | sandy_locke: I have to leave you for a bit, bbia 30 minutes, sorry for that :) | 15:47 |
| sandy_locke | ok no pb | 15:47 |
| sledges | statusbar on bottom is for no thumb stretchers | 15:50 |
| sledges | wazd was right about covering the bottom screen with thumb's joint | 15:50 |
| sledges | but that applies only for n9 that im now holding in my hand | 15:50 |
| sledges | because of its size | 15:50 |
| sledges | samsung galaxy nexus is fine (even though its only a bit wider than n9, the difference for thumb covering i huge) | 15:51 |
| sledges | *is | 15:51 |
| sledges | but | 15:52 |
| sledges | all these cases are only when the phone (in my test - n9 & gn) is resting comfy in your palm | 15:53 |
| sledges | means that it's edge is touching your palm, and not balancing on fingers | 15:53 |
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| sledges | when one day i will use glacier bottom status bar on n9, i will have to subconsciously move the phone out from the palm to rest more onto fingers, on order to reveal contents from under the thumb | 15:54 |
| sledges | on gn it will work fine out of box | 15:54 |
| sandy_locke | gn ? | 15:55 |
| sledges | galaxy nexus | 15:56 |
| sandy_locke | because n9 screen is too small you think ? | 15:56 |
| sledges | phone's width | 15:56 |
| sledges | you cup n9 phone in your palm | 15:57 |
| sledges | im not saying anything above is an issue | 15:58 |
| sandy_locke | not if statusbar is still displayed when thumb is 10/20px above it | 15:58 |
| sledges | we need a survey how firmly people hold their phones :D | 15:58 |
| sandy_locke | it's all about implementation after that... | 15:58 |
| sledges | probably depends if they are on the street, checking status bar on n9 might be dangerous, sine you have to slide phone out of your grip a bit | 15:59 |
| sandy_locke | yeah, maybe for that statusbar should be at top, not bottom... | 15:59 |
| sledges | sandy_locke: if the phone is cupped in your hand, no matter how high your thumb is, the joint will cover the bottom-right of the screen (i.e. the clock :O) | 15:59 |
| sandy_locke | I think I don't hold my phone like you do ;) | 16:00 |
| sledges | or maybe status bar needs to be triangular in the bottom-left corner ;) (lefthanded people will kill us, but we could have a setting about phone's handedness why not ;)) | 16:00 |
| sledges | sandy_locke: :D can be, i used gn every day, and that is resting in my palm | 16:00 |
| sandy_locke | I hold it on my fingers, with my little finger holding the bottom of the phone, so the thumb has all latitude to work on the screen | 16:00 |
| sledges | i forgot how i used to use n9 nO | 16:01 |
| sledges | hint hint: i heard many left handed users moaning about android they used ;) | 16:02 |
| sandy_locke | I have to go sledges , bb in 1h or so | 16:02 |
| ryukafalz | checking how I use my own gn, and it seems to differ based on what hand I hold it in o.o | 16:02 |
| sledges | so, if most peopl hold phone by fingers, like you sandy_locke , i see no issue for bottom status bar at all | 16:02 |
| sandy_locke | but yes, we should think about left handed people when speccing | 16:02 |
| ryukafalz | maybe I'm just weird | 16:03 |
| sledges | sandy_locke: or add an option, and theui will adapt! | 16:03 |
| sledges | ;) | 16:03 |
| sledges | *the ui | 16:03 |
| sandy_locke | yes, that's what I meant | 16:03 |
| sandy_locke | an option | 16:03 |
| sandy_locke | :) | 16:03 |
| sledges | speak later, this interesting discussion! | 16:03 |
| sandy_locke | yup, I'll be back ;) | 16:03 |
| sledges | i agree, in most cases i hold the phone on fingers | 16:13 |
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| valdur55 | oh yea... i am left handed :) | 16:16 |
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| faenil | <--- left handed | 16:19 |
| sledges | \o | 16:21 |
| sledges | ;) | 16:21 |
| sledges | the biggest complaint i had from a lefty is that most info is on the left side of screen (like people's pictures in contacts list etc - many bits i cant remember now) | 16:22 |
| wazd | I'm back | 16:23 |
| sledges | (think about all left aligned list elements, too *g*) | 16:25 |
| sledges | wb wazd o/ | 16:25 |
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| valdur55 | or there must be settings for that. | 16:25 |
| sledges | yea that's what we were thinking - a setting | 16:27 |
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| wazd | speaking of different concepts from my mind | 16:37 |
| wazd | I've been showing some stuff to jolla guys during my woderful Hel vacation | 16:38 |
| wazd | So it looks like this | 16:39 |
| wazd | Some sort of "Bridge", that you see when you minimize an app: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/PDF/bridge.png | 16:39 |
| wazd | to the right there are infinite pages of opened apps: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/PDF/feed-3.png | 16:40 |
| wazd | Swipe to the left - feed view: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/PDF/feed-1.png | 16:40 |
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| wazd | swipe to the left a bit more - detailed feed view: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/PDF/feed-2.png | 16:40 |
| wazd | so you can read just one category if you have lots of info running at you | 16:41 |
| wazd | that concept eventually evolved in infinite pages of widgets to the left and pages of apps to the right | 16:43 |
| wazd | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/PDF/widgets2.png | 16:44 |
| sledges | nice! | 16:45 |
| sledges | they don't even have to be infine pages - just infinite scroll ;) | 16:46 |
| sledges | so the feeds now live on top? | 16:46 |
| wazd | sledges: sorta :D | 16:46 |
| wazd | sledges: the idea was to bring back that ability of the phone to connect you to the other person as seamlessly and quick as possible | 16:47 |
| wazd | right now you have to jump around like a hopper to have 3-4 chats and do something else | 16:47 |
| wazd | My vision was to collect all your chats and feeds on top | 16:48 |
| faenil | wazd, the bridge looks a lot like bb10, ubuntu touch and iOS together :D | 16:48 |
| wazd | so you can always bring it up and down without jumping around your apps | 16:48 |
| wazd | faenil: sorta kinda yes :) | 16:48 |
| wazd | faenil: well, everything is something with something with something :) | 16:48 |
| sledges | -android | 16:49 |
| faenil | lol | 16:49 |
| sledges | :DD | 16:49 |
| wazd | it's more like maemo 5 + BB10 | 16:49 |
| wazd | and that's it :D | 16:49 |
| wazd | and that chatting hub is sorta kinda has its roots in Facebook's shell | 16:50 |
| wazd | like really not quite obvious ones :) | 16:50 |
| faenil | :D | 16:50 |
| wazd | but they thought of facebook, and I've been struggling with all the stuff | 16:51 |
| wazd | for example, you have 4 chats on harmattan | 16:51 |
| wazd | Try to zoom out | 16:51 |
| wazd | even if you had labels, it would look like a mess | 16:51 |
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| wazd | BB10's hub is a really nice idea but terrible realization (IMO) | 16:53 |
| wazd | well, not terrible, but a bit illogical | 16:53 |
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| sledges | i can see how many of these nice concepts can land in our effort | 16:57 |
| wazd | sledges: well, I hope so :D | 17:00 |
| wazd | sledges: btw, about scroll vs paging | 17:00 |
| wazd | sledges: if your information has some sort of block structure (like grid), not "flow" one, then it should page instead of scroll | 17:01 |
| sledges | but if you want to get to the end of it quickly | 17:01 |
| sledges | like list of infinite multitasking apps xD | 17:02 |
| wazd | sledges: For example, harmattan's launcher is fundamentally wrong | 17:02 |
| wazd | sledges: just swipe quickly 3 or 4 times | 17:02 |
| wazd | sledges: and you can see this mistake is fixed in Sailfish btw :P | 17:02 |
| wazd | sledges: cause your finger can memorize much broader information like "one swipe up + bottom right icon" | 17:03 |
| wazd | instead of "somewhere on the right" | 17:03 |
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| sledges | nod | 17:07 |
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| qwazix_ | wazd, that's a matter of preference | 17:09 |
| qwazix_ | I find harmattan much better than BB10 in that matter | 17:09 |
| eekkelund | congratz solving that freeze bug!!:) | 17:09 |
| qwazix_ | (especially since new apps always land in the last page) | 17:09 |
| valdur55 | eekkelund: it is not finished... | 17:10 |
| sledges | eekkelund: thanks | 17:11 |
| sledges | valdur55: it is ;) | 17:11 |
| sledges | valdur55: still problems? :} | 17:11 |
| eekkelund | awesome!:) | 17:11 |
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| valdur55 | Ok. is seems to me that i have another bug... | 17:14 |
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| wazd | qwazix_: there's a way to quickly jump to the end in BB10 | 17:15 |
| qwazix | yeah, hit the tiny bullet | 17:15 |
| qwazix | I like way better to just swipe quickly anywhere to get to the end | 17:15 |
| sledges | valdur55: im all ears ^_^ | 17:17 |
| * sledges ponders about the slingshot get-to-the-end-quickly idea ;) <- wazd qwazix | 17:18 | |
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| qwazix | sledges, swipe to the other direction? | 17:18 |
| sledges | exploiting the list top/bottom rubbery behaviour | 17:18 |
| wazd | sledges: actually you're reading my mind | 17:18 |
| sledges | qwazix: yes | 17:18 |
| wazd | sledges: but I've found it too confusing | 17:18 |
| qwazix | sledges, why not loop then? | 17:19 |
| valdur55 | It is related to sailfish. I installed packages. used dup ... Booted first time to welckome screen and ended up with funny screen ( only backroud) | 17:19 |
| sledges | but that conflicts with contextroller invention | 17:19 |
| sledges | qwazix: ^ :)) | 17:19 |
| sledges | valdur55: a ok :) im not testing sailfish on n9 however :/ | 17:19 |
| valdur55 | after reboot, it stucked in Nemo boot screen. Then i tared nemo rootfs over it. | 17:20 |
| wazd | sledges: my idea was when you tap and hold with finger and drag down or up some kind of rectangle appears to show you direction of the shot and you release it | 17:20 |
| valdur55 | Then it worked first boot and then failed second boot. | 17:20 |
| sledges | wazd: angry birds scrolling :D | 17:20 |
| wazd | sledges: list can even "vibrate" a bit to show tesion :) | 17:20 |
| wazd | sledges: but this idea needs a serious PoC demo :D | 17:21 |
| wazd | sledges: and I'm too dumb for these things so I have to test everything in my mind | 17:21 |
| wazd | sledges: and in my mind I didn't quite got all that reversed directions thing | 17:22 |
| wazd | sledges: but it would be quite an eye-candy for sure :D | 17:22 |
| sledges | but it also conflicts with pulleys, and esp with pull down to refresh paradigm | 17:23 |
| sledges | which i think should be consistent throughout | 17:23 |
| sledges | and could read about contextroller in grog ;) is what it conflicts with firstly | 17:23 |
| wazd | sledges: well, since you'll have to wait a bit for rectangle to appear, I don't think it's much of a problem | 17:24 |
| sledges | locusf: ping | 17:24 |
| qwazix | wazd, then you conflict with long-tap action on the item under your finger | 17:24 |
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| sledges | locusf: thanks for the switch, looks ok when off, but im getting this: http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii567/sledgas/mer/nemo/19700101012519_zpsd1e9b3a4.png | 17:25 |
| wazd | qwazix: you tap an item, drag it down and wait for rectangle or any other marker to appear, then release | 17:25 |
| wazd | qwazix: not exactly tap and hold | 17:26 |
| qwazix | isn't that too complicated? | 17:26 |
| wazd | qwazix: exactly | 17:26 |
| wazd | qwazix: see my initial thought :P | 17:26 |
| wazd | it's even more confusing that you should pull down to scroll up :D | 17:27 |
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| qwazix | :nod: | 17:27 |
| wazd | wrong | 17:27 |
| wazd | even I can't say it properly :D | 17:27 |
| qwazix | :) | 17:27 |
| wazd | you should pull down to scroll down but that's not what you initially see on the scren on tap and drag | 17:28 |
| qwazix | got to go | 17:28 |
| qwazix | cya later | 17:28 |
| wazd | qwazix: cya | 17:28 |
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| locusf | sledges: ok, cant see the image though | 17:32 |
| locusf | stupid tablet | 17:32 |
| sledges | huh :) | 17:32 |
| locusf | connectbot wont open the url | 17:33 |
| sledges | hmph, locusf , shall i put it on dropbox? | 17:33 |
| locusf | its not about the hosting site :) | 17:34 |
| sledges | wazd: you sarcasm pest :D well remember when you overscroll in harmattan, it pops back ;) | 17:34 |
| locusf | its about the inability for me to just open it in my tablets browser | 17:34 |
| sledges | i thought it confuses with this particular url or something | 17:34 |
| sledges | as i would feel pity if you cant open irc links on your tablet :) | 17:34 |
| sledges | so i can do tinyurl :D | 17:34 |
| locusf | it happens in twitter too | 17:35 |
| sledges | so what tablet you have is in desperate needing of a new interactive OS ? ;) | 17:36 |
| locusf | hmm actually tweetcaster might work, can you dm me the link? | 17:36 |
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| sledges | http://tinyurl.com/4locusf | 17:37 |
| sledges | *g* | 17:37 |
| locusf | didn't work | 17:37 |
| sledges | ofc | 17:37 |
| sledges | you need to type it by hand | 17:37 |
| sledges | :D | 17:37 |
| locusf | lol | 17:37 |
| locusf | ok can see now | 17:39 |
| locusf | so the label covers it partially? | 17:39 |
| sledges | erm | 17:41 |
| sledges | the ball falls out of the groove | 17:41 |
| locusf | that too | 17:42 |
| sledges | there is no label in the spec | 17:43 |
| sledges | does checkbox has label? | 17:44 |
| vakkov | Good morning! A quick question - is there wayland support in nemo for the n900 ? | 17:44 |
| vakkov | oops - evening * | 17:45 |
| faenil | vakkov, long story short: the n900 wayland driver was taken and updated for the current wayland and made it work for n950 | 17:45 |
| faenil | none did the same to update it to work for n900 with current wayland | 17:46 |
| faenil | so there is something which used to work (I think) with wayland on n900, but it has to be updated to support the updated wayland | 17:46 |
| faenil | vakkov, there is also the chance that the n950 driver works with small changes, who knows :) | 17:47 |
| locusf | sledges: on the demo page yes | 17:47 |
| locusf | its just for show though | 17:47 |
| vakkov | faenil, thanks! Can you give me some links for these drivers or somewhere where I can read more | 17:52 |
| faenil | vakkov, enjoy https://github.com/nemomobile/ti-omap3-sgx-wayland-wsegl/ | 17:53 |
| sledges | locusf: i mean, does upstream qqc checkbox exposes itself with built-in label? | 17:57 |
| sledges | vakkov: abandoned effort: nemo blinking cursor on n900, find kickstart there: https://twitter.com/NemoMobile/status/375228834389303296 | 17:58 |
| sledges | niqt was on it (there should be a post on tmo as well, but probably not more info of what faenil told you already) | 17:59 |
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| locusf | sledges: yes | 18:03 |
| sledges | locusf: ok, then we'll follow that | 18:07 |
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| vakkov | thanks for the info guys | 18:30 |
| faenil | np :) | 18:31 |
| faenil | vakkov, let us know if you get it working :) | 18:31 |
| faenil | and if you need help while working on it, Stskeeps and w00t are probably the best bets | 18:31 |
| vakkov | first I must get a working n900 since mine died an year and a half ago ... and after looking at the market i came to the conclusion that i still need an n900.. even though it is no more modern :D | 18:32 |
| wazd | oh, and btw guys, arent you tired of circle-shaped icons yet? :D | 18:33 |
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| wazd | Firefox OS, Tizen, MIUI at some point of time as I remember, meizu also have 50/50 circle|square | 18:35 |
| faenil | vakkov, lol :) do notice anyway that the wayland implementation for n9/n950 is not in good shape | 18:35 |
| faenil | no good performance and no vsync, for instance | 18:35 |
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| vakkov | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/N9_Kernel_update_project | 19:21 |
| vakkov | does sb know what happened to this project? | 19:21 |
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| faenil | vakkov, last time I heard it was Hurrian saying that essentially we're missing someone to make a device tree | 19:38 |
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| vakkov | if only it was possible for the n900.. | 19:41 |
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| faenil | vakkov, I can send you the n950 if you *will* get that kernel booting | 19:42 |
| faenil | it boot already actually | 19:43 |
| faenil | but, well, finish the plans | 19:43 |
| faenil | *my* n950 | 19:43 |
| faenil | (but I want it back afterwards :D) | 19:43 |
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| vakkov | last time i messed with kernels was to patch the nitdroid one to run via u-boot .. | 19:58 |
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| filip_n9 | vakkov, faenil I'm probably the last one who made any progress with 3.5 | 20:08 |
| filip_n9 | orientation, audio and couple of other things are done | 20:09 |
| filip_n9 | tried to get charging to work but I'm stuck | 20:10 |
| faenil | filip_n9, ah great to know :) | 20:10 |
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| filip_n9 | N9 resets when nemo goes to sleep with someting plugged into usb | 20:11 |
| lead | got a really funny question? | 20:11 |
| filip_n9 | someone with working serial console shoul take crack at it | 20:12 |
| filip_n9 | if someone is interested I can send patches mades so far | 20:13 |
| faenil | filip_n9, I see.. | 20:13 |
| lead | can someone please tellme how to install .rpm apps on nemo. I have them in the device no wifi to download now. | 20:14 |
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| faenil | lead, zypper install <file> | 20:20 |
| faenil | lead, or rpm -ivh <file> | 20:21 |
| lead | have done that and it aint working | 20:21 |
| lead | rpm | 20:21 |
| faenil | lead, ? | 20:21 |
| faenil | if it doesn't work then you're missing dependencies most likely | 20:21 |
| lead | yes | 20:22 |
| faenil | then install the dependencies :) | 20:22 |
| lead | an I need internet connection to get them right!them ri | 20:22 |
| lead | totally what I am avoiding | 20:23 |
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| sledges | lead: do tethering to device: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/USBNetworking | 20:36 |
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| lead | 20:41 | |
| lead | still don't know what to do | 20:42 |
| sledges | if you can ssh via usb | 20:43 |
| sledges | on host PC do: | 20:43 |
| sledges | iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -s 192.168.2.15/32 -j MASQUERADE | 20:43 |
| sledges | echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward | 20:43 |
| sledges | on N9 do: | 20:43 |
| sledges | /sbin/route add default gw 192.168.2.14 | 20:43 |
| sledges | echo nameserver 8.8.8.8 > /etc/resolv.conf | 20:43 |
| sledges | simples :) | 20:44 |
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| sledges | bbll | 21:00 |
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| me_ | hmmm Mikael Q Kuisma | 23:17 |
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