Tuesday, 2013-12-03

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nightmare04sledges, you are here?:)00:17
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nightmare04Hi, who know how install jolla xt9 packages on N9 Nemo01:17
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MFaro-TusinoCould anyone provide me the memo moslo files - I am using a mac and rpm2cpio (via home-brew) isn't being nice07:09
MFaro-TusinoJust need the zImage-moslo and initrd-moslo :)07:10
MFaro-TusinoThanks in advance07:10
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faenilMFaro-Tusino, ping me in 1h or so ;)07:23
MFaro-Tusinookay okay07:23
MFaro-Tusinot-minus 60 set :p07:23
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coderushe there!08:30
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sledgesgd mrnng!08:30
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coderusany news of using sailfish os repos on Nemo?08:31
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MFaro-TusinoIt can be done no?08:33
MFaro-TusinoIsn't that how they got Sailfish on N95008:33
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MFaro-TusinoN9 stays at08:35
MFaro-Tusino*Stays at Nemo boot screen - any thoughts on what I did wrong?08:35
coderusi'm talking about http://piggz.co.uk/?q=blog/2013/12/01/how-break-perfectly-good-n95008:35
MFaro-TusinoIt used to work flawlessly all the time08:35
coderusanybody tried?08:35
jussicoderus: I suggest you join #n950club08:36
MFaro-TusinoI am in the process now - just need to get Nemo booting08:36
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coderushow to disable repositories?08:46
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MFaro-Tusinoany suggestions about this nemo splash screen not going away?08:47
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coderusMFaro-Tusino: when i installed nemo i forgot to use --numeric-owner options when unpacking tar ;)08:50
coderusMFaro-Tusino: chheck that :)08:50
MFaro-TusinoI didn't use tar - i simply extracted using gui and copied over - will retry with --numeric-owner this time. Thanks Coderus08:51
coderusMFaro-Tusino: you should use tar08:52
MFaro-Tusinoyeah I know - i was just being lazy08:52
coderusMFaro-Tusino: permissions and ownership should be saved ;)08:52
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MFaro-TusinoCoderus: getting a weird operation not permitted error :/09:01
faenilMFaro-Tusino, numeric owner is vital09:02
MFaro-Tusinoyeah i am using that now09:02
MFaro-Tusinobut still getting operation not permitted09:02
MFaro-Tusinothough it seems files are being written to my device09:03
coderusMFaro-Tusino: sudo09:03
MFaro-Tusinoi did sudo09:03
coderusremove everything09:03
coderusand sudo tar09:03
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MFaro-TusinoI removed everything but boot-orig and lost+found09:05
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StskeepsHurrian: followup on the tzdata issue - it's a UI problem; the factual timezone will be set correctly10:27
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fk_lxThere was in Harbour FAQ "You can support us with that effort, please ask in Nemo project how to help with Python."10:45
fk_lxso I'm asking how to help with Python?10:45
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w00tthp: ^10:51
fk_lxw00t: thanks10:51
fk_lxthp: how can I help with Python on Nemo?10:51
fk_lxor rather mer10:52
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fk_lxwould really like to help with that11:04
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tbrIIRC there was previously some discussion about this here on this channel11:10
tbrmight help to check logs11:10
fk_lxwell there are many discussions, but what is the current state and what is needed now11:12
* fk_lx goes to check logs11:12
MFaro-Tusinofaenil: Still getting operation not permitted errors11:21
faenilMFaro-Tusino, sorry I didn't follow before, mind summing up what you did and the current error?11:21
MFaro-Tusinodespite using sudo, and --numeric-owner11:21
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MFaro-Tusinookay so I am using a Mac, which is the biggest problem clearly11:21
fk_lxtbr w00t: I've checked logs from whole October and November and there is no information how to help with Python, so I would like to know that, if I want to help how can I do that11:22
faenilw00t, https://twitter.com/dipeshsebastian/status/40782133763834675211:22
tbrhmmm, too bad11:23
MFaro-Tusinofaenil: i've flashed the kernel, and have the alt_os exported, and did sudo tar -xvf ~/Downloads/nemo-rnd-n950-20131120.tar.bz2 -C /Alt_OS/Mount/Point/11:24
MFaro-Tusinobut as it goes through the files, it says (for example) x ./opt/qmlcalendar/images/icon_11.pngtar: qtn_file_apply_to_path(./opt/qmlcalendar/images/icon_11.png): Operation not permitted11:25
faenilyou're not extracting with numeric-owner btw11:27
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coderusfaenil: can you help me with jolla repositories on n9? :)11:29
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faenilcoderus, I haven't played with that myself, but I can try11:30
coderusfaenil: okay11:30
faenilcoderus, (so I don't know if there's any needed trick)11:30
coderusi'm just stuck at11:30
MFaro-TusinoFaenil: yeah I am - I just left that part out of what I sent you11:30
coderusAuthentication required for 'https://download.jollamobile.com/nemo:/mw/latest_armv7hl/'11:31
faenilcoderus, that is the rnd repo, it's not open11:31
coderusMFaro-Tusino: seems your sudo not gaining access to mount point11:31
coderusor you mounted it as read-only11:31
faenilMFaro-Tusino, do you get operation not permitted for all files or just some?11:31
MFaro-Tusinoseems all11:31
coderusMFaro-Tusino: remount partition with read-write11:32
MFaro-Tusinocoderus: not mounted as read-only - I can write to it with simple drag and drop and cp11:32
coderusMFaro-Tusino: okay11:32
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coderusdo sudo su11:32
coderusand execute tar here11:32
coderusfaenil: hmm, how then it come to me11:33
coderusfaenil: just followed steps11:33
MFaro-Tusinocoderus: what do you mean by "execute tar here"11:34
faenilcoderus, don't know how that ended up in your stuff, which steps?11:34
faenilMFaro-Tusino, first sudo su, then tar11:34
MFaro-Tusinofaenil: he is using piggz's guide11:34
faenillink pls11:34
coderusand rzr too11:35
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faenilcoderus, are you following that guide? I can see it talks about auth required too there11:36
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MFaro-Tusinociders, faenil: used sudo su, now I only get operation not permitted for11:39
MFaro-Tusinox ./dev/ptmxtar: qtn_file_apply_to_path(./dev/ptmx): Operation not permitted11:39
MFaro-Tusinox ./dev/pts/11:39
MFaro-Tusinox ./dev/fulltar: qtn_file_apply_to_path(./dev/full): Operation not permitted11:39
MFaro-Tusinox ./dev/zerotar: qtn_file_apply_to_path(./dev/zero): Operation not permitted11:39
MFaro-Tusinox ./dev/nulltar: qtn_file_apply_to_path(./dev/null): Operation not permitted11:39
MFaro-Tusinox ./dev/urandomtar: qtn_file_apply_to_path(./dev/urandom): Operation not permitted11:39
MFaro-Tusinox ./dev/randomtar: qtn_file_apply_to_path(./dev/random): Operation not permitted11:39
faenilbettery xD11:39
MFaro-Tusinotar: Error exit delayed from previous errors.11:39
faenilbetter, grr11:39
MFaro-Tusinoergh, why did it change it to ciders, must not know I feel like a drink :p11:40
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faenilcoderus, fixed your issue?12:08
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coderusfaenil: yes, it working12:23
faenilok :)12:23
coderusjust missed sdk ssh password. and new password not saving ;(12:24
coderusrzr wrota about it, i missed this =(12:25
coderusi need root access exploit for nemo/sailfish :)12:25
tbrjust mount through moslo and reset the passwords with known hashes in /etc/shadow12:26
tbrboth root and nemo12:26
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fk_lxSo once again, how can I help with Python app support on Jolla? (asking here as suggested in Harbour FAQ)12:34
faenilcoderus, ah :D12:36
tbrsledges, faenil, so, what's the python story?12:37
faeniltbr, no idea :/12:38
tbrfaenil: who knows and why does harbour point to us here?12:38
faeniltbr, I don't know who knows, I only know thp working on python libs, maybe w00t ?12:39
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fk_lxw00t do you know something? :-)12:48
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thptbr: python story is: python 3 + pyotherside will end up in nemo mw, from there, harbour apps will be able to depend on it once the api is stable / tested12:50
coderustbr: doing, thanks :)12:51
fk_lxbut the question is how one can support the effort as it was stated (on Harbour)12:51
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fk_lx"Can I submit Python applications? Currently  not, there are some enablers missing for that. But we are working on  it, to make that happen. You can support us with that effort, please ask  in Nemo project how to help with Python."12:51
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faenilthp, the question was more "how do I support the python story since FAQ sent me here"12:53
fk_lxfaenil: +112:53
thpah.. well.. that's easy12:54
thpzypper ar http://repo.merproject.org/obs/mer-python3/latest_armv7hl/mer-python3.repo12:54
thpthen install, test and create a pyotherside-using qml application12:55
thpyou can basically re-use the existing sailfish application template12:55
thpjust import the pyotherside module and use it from there12:55
faenilbut how to bring the effor further, I mean, this is just a way to test if it's working12:56
thpat the moment, it's mostly about testing the existing libs and see if they can be used in real-world apps (they should be)12:56
thpeverything else is just promoting it inside our repos12:56
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fk_lxwhich libs would be good to test?12:57
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fk_lxand is there any roadmap/todo/bug list for pyotherside?12:58
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fk_lxcan my questions can get an answer or it requires them to be asked again by other persons?13:03
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tbrby looking around I'd say https://github.com/thp/pyotherside/issues is the closest I see to an roadmap/todo/bug list, maybe thp can comment on it?13:12
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thptbr: as far as nemo is concerned, https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/pyotherside13:15
tbrok, thanks13:15
faenilthp, roadmap/current issues/things worth looking into?13:17
thpfaenil: right now, it's mostly about waiting for things to trickle into repos on our side.. if third party apps use it and test it, that'd be the best for now (from mer-python3 repos)13:20
faenilah ok so there's not much that can be done except testing, it's just about waiting for Jolla13:21
faeniland if someone really wants to contribute, just test and make sure stuff works13:21
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fk_lxand what about PyPy, some time ago it was also optimized for ARM, is it also planned to be available in Nemo/Sailfish?13:33
fk_lxas an alternative to CPython? and what about the Qt bindings for PyPy?13:34
wazdthp: woo! :P13:37
faenilwazd, o/13:38
wazdfaenil: heya13:38
thpwazd: yo yo yo13:40
thpwazd: what's up in gfx land?13:40
wazdthp: not much, had a very long break in designing things, trying to keep up right now. Congrats on Jolla release! :)13:42
thpwazd: thx :) will we see something like meecast for sailfish?13:45
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wazdfaenil: I was trying to start with something, found Nemo logo reeealy nice (quite a spot-on concept wise) but I've tweaked it a lil' bit https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/Nemo/Logo/1.png13:45
fk_lxwazd: looks nice, you know there was voting for the current logo, so why not to propose it on mailing list13:46
faenilyes, that would be the way :)13:46
wazdthp: If you'd ask nicely ;D Kiddin', actually I haven't been in touch with Vlad for some time, probably he's up to something. Meanwhile JollaHQ totally ignored my tweet with this: https://twitter.com/andrewzhilin/status/394506421057753088/photo/1/large13:48
wazdthp: so I guess it's not that urgent :D13:48
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wazdfk_lx: will do13:49
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fk_lxwazd: good :-)13:49
wazdfk_lx, faenil: I've just added a little bit of "geeky" side to it, since Indian navy insignia has this loop on top, and Mr. Nemo was guess who :D13:50
HurrianStskeeps: thanks for ACK on the issue! :)13:50
faenilwazd, Hurrian made the first glacier mockups, if you want to have some ideas exchange, this is the right moment :P13:51
wazdfaenil, Hurrian: oh, cool, hey Hurrian :D13:52
Hurrianohai wazd13:52
fk_lxbtw. anyone can answer the question about PyPy and also about what libs would be good to test in Python apps (one of previous questions) targetted at Nemo/Sailfish13:52
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faenilfk_lx, not sure asking every 10mins will help :P13:53
fk_lxyou asking was more effective, so maybe you can ask that, would be good to know13:57
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Flowcontis anyone looking at the GPS adaptations needed for N9/N950?15:38
sledgesFlowcont: nobody is looking into that, Flowcont . Would you volunteer? ;) I reckon you've come across this one already: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptation/N9-N950#GPS15:40
Flowcontand after some digging with strace and nepd in the N915:41
FlowcontI have realized the wiki page is pointing to an archive page15:41
faenilthere are some guys working on reverse engineering Nokia's protocol15:42
faenilyeah, that one I guess15:42
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faenilalso, I think juiceme worked on it not long time ago15:42
Flowcontin that page it seems that the work is already done regarding MEIF15:43
Flowcontisn't it?15:43
sledgesthat would be good news15:44
faenildon't know15:44
* sledges updates wiki by removing the archive link15:44
sledgesthanks Flowcont15:44
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Morpog_PCwazd, feel free to contribute to nemo-artwork or glacier-controls-spec repos18:16
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Morpog_PCDon't think we should change Nemo Icon again, just after it got voted by community18:18
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wazdMorpog_PC: well, it's not quite "change", more like a minor refreshment :)18:28
sledgesI do appreciate wazd research and jump start (having nicely researched even bigger depths, no pun intended http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Ranks/Captain.gif although loop's also applies to australian navy)18:28
wazdBut it's just a warm up for my brain so I guess I don't mind to work with current one :)18:29
Morpog_PCI just think we should avoid redoing stuff over and over ;)18:30
Morpog_PCwith our limited ressources18:30
wazdsledges: well, since Disney's Nemo was from Australia :D18:30
sledges+1 Morpog_PC18:31
Morpog_PCI like the idea and look of wazd's logo still18:31
sledges+1 for the logo tinker looking at it as wazd's warmup18:32
Morpog_PCbtw, does Jolla device include Nemo logo in about section anywhere?18:32
Morpog_PCfaenil, ?18:32
faenilno logos at all18:33
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Morpog_PCI see why qwazix is so quiete lately, he is busy doing Jolla apps :)18:35
sledges:D and locusf ;)18:35
* sledges just busy working18:35
StskeepsMorpog_PC: we do link to it on sailfishos.org though18:35
wazdMorpog_PC: and as for resources, I'm a sorta kinda UI/UX specialist so no worries, We're going to whip some close sourced ass :P18:35
Morpog_PClocusf i smore busy bricking his device by hacky adventures ;)18:35
sledgesStskeeps: Morpog_PC was thinking about impact of nemo logo change if it's already out in the wild on jollas18:36
Morpog_PCwazd, that sounds great! I'm just doing it as a hobby though18:36
Morpog_PCqwazix, is a designer in real life afaik18:36
qwazixjust one app right now :) thought it deserves it18:36
sledgesnice, everyone's buzzing ^_^18:36
Morpog_PChey qwazix, wazd wants to join our design efforts18:37
qwazixWelcome wazd18:38
wazdqwazix: thanks :)18:38
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wazdalso, to restrain my thoughts I wanted to know what are current goals of Glacier UI/UX18:39
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wazdI mean, should it behave the same way as its closed source counterparts for porting ease18:40
Morpog_PCare you refering to silica?18:41
fk_lxwazd: qwazix is the lead/master Glacier UI design person18:41
qwazixNo, that's not the plan, though we pondered a compatibility layer (api wise)18:41
qwazixjust a sec, to get a real keyboard to type on18:42
Morpog_PCwazd, as far as I get it, faenil tries to stay compatible with vanilla QQC18:42
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qwazixAnyway the idea is to be a modern, usable UI focused on productivity18:45
qwazixIf we can achieve compatibility with as many apps as possible the linux way, even if they don't look consistent, it'll do us good, but we still want our core experience to be high quality18:47
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qwazixIn my opinion our goal (and differentiating factor) should be that app-developers won't have to ditch features from their apps because the UI is constraining them.18:49
sledgesand how can we achieve that yet maintaining high quality native experience?18:51
qwazixI think the header and dock, and the resizing behavior of the apps in many situations is in that direction18:53
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Morpog_PCThe header dock is a perfect example18:53
Morpog_PCIf we can get developers using that for theri apps it will be consistent overall18:53
qwazixwazd, I like the modified logo, but as Morpog_PC said it's still quite new to change it again18:53
qwazixbut we might ponder that for nemo 2.018:54
qwazixsledges, also notifications and dialogs do not obstruct your view and allow to continue working18:55
qwazixand while that might not make much sense on a 800x480 4" screen, on a modern phablet, it makes huuge difference18:55
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wazdqwazix: got it :)19:30
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wazdqwazix: and the last question: what's the bottom hardware for UI to deliver smooth performance?19:31
Morpog_PCwazd,  I guess N9 / N95019:32
Morpog_PCthere is no well working hw adaption for N900 on wayland19:32
wazdMorpog_PC: cool (not cool :( ) thanks :)19:33
Morpog_PCeven N9 hw adaption is not that well yet19:34
qwazixwazd, haven't discussed it very much but it has been thrown around to try for perfect performance on 3y/o hardware at any given time19:34
qwazixso 4y/o can suffer from reduced framerate but not unusable19:34
qwazixbut this is just theory unless we have proper hw adaptations for those devices19:35
Morpog_PCand soon with libhybris we could have alot more devices to target on19:35
qwazix(It's more like design the UI / core apps to be performant on that hardware, if the drivers are alright)19:36
Morpog_PCespecially if tehre are alot of people doing the work to get sailfish OS on their device :)19:36
qwazixw00t, remember when I told you that a shipping Sailfish will bring attention to nemo? :-P19:38
sledgesgot you qwazix19:38
qwazixmaybe if Qt 5.1 supports X11 again we can use Glacier on nemo X11 too (just sayin')19:40
specialQt supports X11 just fine19:41
speciallipstick does not anymore19:41
specialand the other pieces that were necessary in nemo X11 like mcompositor are archived and dead19:41
qwazixI remember a project which delayed upgrade to qt5 to go straight to 5.1 because something X11 related was missing19:42
specialwell, nemo is already on 5.1 ;)19:42
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specialthe N9 might be the last piece of [relevant] X11 hardware you ever see.19:42
qwazixyep but there are still quite a few N9xx's around so someone might want to do a frankenemo19:43
qwazix(not me)19:43
specialthen they should improve wsegl and get wayland :p19:44
qwazixas X11 is still much faster on those (Nokia optimisations?)19:44
specialthe lack of direct rendering for wayland is the biggest performance problem there, I think; tearing would be some difficult fix in wsegl19:46
specialdirect rendering isn't much of a priority because newer GPUs can handle compositing without a sweat19:47
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w00tthe wsegl actually has code for tearfree flipping, it's just not working for reasons that I never figured out20:06
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krnlynghi, i am having an issue with nemo, i can boot it but it always says recharge battery (battery is shown as 0% although it is charged) and there also seem to be issues with orientation but i don't know, i am trying to update to sailfish but it seems the underlying issues are nemo related because it reacts the same way in both os's20:44
krnlyng(nokia n9)20:45
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sledgeskrnlyng: recharge battery is a dummy notification, is not a critical bug20:56
krnlyngsledges: so it cannot read the battery value?20:57
krnlyngbecause it always shows 0%20:57
sledgesyes, battery subsystem adaptation of n9 needs work21:00
sledgeswould you like to look into it krnlyng ? more than welcomd, can give you pointers in what i can21:16
krnlyngi could look into it21:16
krnlyngbut a question, nitdroid seems to have hardware support for many things, couldn't we just look it up there?21:17
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sledgeskrnlyng: it's all about writing a statefs plugin (reusing contextkit plugin from nemo x11 times), and this will tie in nicely with nemo middleware which sailfish uses too. nitdroid backports wont make sailfish happy21:32
sledgessince at kernel level battery api is the same across n921:34
krnlyngsledges: do i need a cross-toolchain?21:36
sledgesmer platform sdk has it all21:37
faenilkrnlyng, if you want to give a hand with statefs stuff and you have issues, deztructor is the guy to contact :D21:43
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sledgeskrnlyng: http://www.merproject.org/logs/%23nemomobile/%23nemomobile.2013-08-23.log.html#t2013-08-23T13:37:1021:48
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sledgesdeztructor in action ^ :)21:51
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