Friday, 2013-09-27

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faenilisp guys keep saying my values are ideal.09:55
faeniland my SNR keeps going from 16 to 0...409:55
faenil(without the final 4)09:55
faenilI mean, WTF are they looking at?!?!09:55
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dm8tbryou tried different modems, right?10:03
faenilsrsly, I also have technician mobile phone, and I'm spamming him right now10:03
faenilyes I did10:03
faenilalso changed filter10:03
faenildm8tbr, I'm logging snr using adslctl with an "expect" script10:03
faenilI log snr to a file every 10sec10:04
* dm8tbr senses nice graphs10:04
faenilwait let me dump the file for yesterday and I'll show you10:04
faenilif you're intersted.10:04
Anssi||try to unplug device if that help :)10:04
dm8tbrwhy not, though it's unlikely to be able to tell anything from it10:05
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faenildm8tbr, what values could be more helpful?10:06
faenilI wanted to log stuff to show to the technician, but logging snr on all Tones is a bit verbose10:06
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faenildm8tbr, ping10:36
dm8tbrI meant just me10:36
dm8tbralso logging as much data as possible is always good10:36
faenilthat is the whole day of yesterday10:39
dm8tbrthat's really weird10:39
dm8tbryour upstream is much better than downstream?10:39
faenilwell, the SNR is10:39
faenilsnr margin, that is10:39
faenilbecause rate is mush lower10:39
dm8tbrthen logging frequency-based data if available is very important10:40
dm8tbrdo you have snr per carrier or such?10:40
faenilisn't up snr always higher? since it has much lower rate?10:40
faenilsnr per carrier? as in?10:40
faenilrouter tools give that10:41
dm8tbrthen log that and look for patterns10:41
faenil500 something tones, or less than that10:41
dm8tbrLOG ALL THE TONES! ;)10:42
faenilthat's like crazy, 500 * 6 times a minute, 3000 values a minute :P10:42
dm8tbrbtw: by the look of that and if I'd have to guess: horrible interference on the line10:43
dm8tbrwhat you only have 640k for logging or what?10:43
faenilnope, but it takes 15 secs to draw that graph already10:44
faeniland it's just 8k values10:44
faenildrawing values for all tones would take forever10:44
dm8tbrbecause you're using a bloody spreadsheet10:44
faenilehehe :)10:44
dm8tbruse R or something similar10:45
faeniltried going octave, but it didn't like the date format10:45
dm8tbryeah, octave would be good too10:45
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dm8tbrbasically you could script it into a bitmap10:46
dm8tbreach data item is a pixel, colour is its value10:46
dm8tbrwaterfall and all that10:46
faenilahhaha :D10:46
dm8tbr(sorry I'm sick and so is my humor it seems)10:47
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faenildm8tbr, nah it's a good idea :P10:48
dm8tbrhint: that's exactly how you plot such stuff in communications theory ;)10:49
faenildm8tbr, ehehe I kind of imagined that :P10:50
faenilas it's very practical10:50
faenilwhat about quiet line table?10:50
faenilor Hlog?10:50
faenilit's other values I can get from router10:52
dm8tbrI'd simply log everything and look for statistic significance10:52
faenilbut I don't even know what those means :P10:52
dm8tbrso what?10:52
faenilI wouldn't be able to tell if something is relevant10:53
dm8tbrif you see a massive change right before your line goes dead...10:53
dm8tbrsome will be symptoms, but something might point to the source of problems. you won't know without trying.10:54
faeniland wasting quite some time on it :D10:54
dm8tbrwell, sanity check doesn't take long10:54
dm8tbrif values don't change at all during problmatic phases, ignore that value10:55
faenilok, you convinced me, though I should be studying, lol :D10:55
faenilah...SNR (dB):       16.9            21.510:55
faenilthat's value right, if it always were that good...10:55
faenilright now*10:55
dm8tbrlogging data is cheap10:56
faenilit stays like that for some time...then goes down little by little till 2-3db10:56
dm8tbryou can still figure out later if its useful or not10:56
dm8tbrbut not logging it at all gives away that chance10:56
faenildm8tbr, the problem is expect has some weird behaviours, sometimes doesn't log, sometime logs only part of it10:57
faenilso I have to read logs and clean them before drawing10:57
faenilyeah I know :/10:57
faenilloggin directly on router doesn't seem to work, as it keeps deleting the crontab and the files I write on it10:58
faenilas if there were some reinitialization once in a while10:58
faenilalso, it doesn't have bash, doesn't have date, doesn't have crontab, doesn't have lots of stuff :D10:58
faenilyep, but I love challenges :D11:00
faenilparsing "ls" output to get date, "uptime" binary to get time, etc D:11:01
dm8tbrwelcome to the club11:01
faenildm8tbr, anyway just fyi, current tones snr
faenildon't know if that's snr margin, or just snr, or whatever :/ should be just snr11:04
faenilif only adslctl had some documentation -.-11:06
dm8tbrsounds like a vendor tool11:07
faenilyea it's for broadcom based routers11:08
faenilthe problem is, as you see, not just snr just slowly decreases constantly...11:08
faeniluntil it jumps back to optimal values :/11:09
faenilit's been 3dB until 11:39AM11:10
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faenilthen at 11:40 it became 16.9dB11:10
faeniland it's still like that ...11:10
faenilit's really, really weird11:10
faenilsame rate, same attenuation11:10
faenilall at once stable 3dB becomes stable 16.9dB11:10
faenilI cannot really explain that11:11
faenil(there has been a disconnection between the change of course)11:11
faenildm8tbr, got any idea?11:15
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faenilgtg, be back in 3h11:17
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dm8tbrdisconnection means re-training11:20
dm8tbrmight also mean that different frequencies are chosen11:20
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ZogG_lap1opVenemo_N9: when your nick would be Venemo_BB10 ? :)11:29
ZogG_lap1opwaiting for client :P11:29
Venemo_N9workin on it11:31
Venemo_N9don't worry11:31
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zbenjaminis it better to use a vm mer SDK or a locally installed one? I personally would use the latter but when reading the wiki it doesn't sound like a good one11:56
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sledgeszbenjamin, I used locally installed one all the way from the beginning12:05
sledgesnativeness rules12:05
sledgesif you run into problems, we are here to help (and adjust wiki accordingly ;))12:05
zbenjaminyeah , that was my first thought too12:05
sledgesit had bit fat red warning, but just be careful ;)12:06
sledgesi didn't get burned :D locusf did, but he has routine backups of his whole data12:07
zbenjaminhm maybe creating a own user for it might help with data safety12:08
sledgesit mounts /12:09
zbenjaminchroot ;)12:09
w00tit doesn't quite anymore12:09
w00tit uses bind mounts12:09
w00tso the problem should be less, as I understand it12:10
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sledgesall you need to be aware is not to delete the directory the sdk is in12:10
w00tlbt will be good to talk about the details12:10
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sledges(and its parents)12:10
sledgesso just install it somewhere /don't_delete_me and you're fine :))12:10
* sledges hears lbt mumble &)12:11
lbtah - that problem goes away with new 'rolling' sdk12:11
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sledgeseven better then! is it available/out ?12:11
sledgescan we remove the big fat red warning?12:12
* sledges it's time have installed new mersdk, haven't updated it for months and months12:12
zbenjaminnot remove it but specify that its not valid anymore for releases >= ....12:12
lbtzbenjamin: essentially yes12:12
lbtbut I'd like a way to say "you're not affected if..."12:13
lbtthe current update process is not nice btw12:14
zbenjaminso if i grep this one:  i'm not affected , correct?12:14
lbtzbenjamin: I wish I  could answer that12:14
lbtI'm engrossed in something at the minute but "release platform SDK" is getting much closer12:15
zbenjaminoook well then i just won't delete it without unmounting ;)12:20
sledgesthat's the trick12:25
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zbenjamini get: Directory /var/run/dbus is missing in SDK root - please report this bug12:39
zbenjaminbut only on first sdk mount ...12:40
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ZogG_lap1opdiff faenil_devalphaC faenil :)12:47
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: btw what client do you use?12:47
faenil_devalphaC"Yaaic for BlackBerry10"12:49
faenil_devalphaCit's nice, it's android but on 10.2 it's very smooth12:49
ZogG_lap1opas well as i have that annoying bar at bottom12:52
ZogG_lap1opas i want to stick to unlocked runtime12:52
ZogG_lap1opi use android on bb10 only for waze as there are no proper maps for my country(native jsut says " not supporting you country")12:53
faenil_devalphaCyeah I know12:53
faenil_devalphaCtry Yaaic anyway ;)12:53
faenil_devalphaCfonts is small and clean12:54
faenil_devalphaCit's nice12:54
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ZogG_lap1opthere 3 of them12:55
faenil_devalphaCthe name as I wrote it12:58
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ZogG_BB10There is no tab to get nick ;)13:07
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faenil_devalphaCZogG_lap1op yes that is a huge problem, but it's nice overall13:09
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ZogG_lap1opeveryone is waiting for irc_chatter :)13:10
ZogG_lap1opHurrian: \o13:10
Hurrianohai ZogG_lap1op13:10
faenil_devalphaCyou can select the name from the users list13:10
faenil_devalphaChey how you doing Hurrian13:10
Hurrianbusting ass to finish finals for first term, been looking at the newer mockups over at Grog and they're nice.13:11
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faenil_devalphaCqwazix ping...missing detail about the pressed state for button13:12
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: pressed or checked ?13:12
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: checked like a checkbox13:13
faenil_devalphaCno I meant pressed13:13
faenil_devalphaCchecked is completely missing :)13:13
Sfiet_KonstantinIIRC he said that you should put a circle around the thumb13:13
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: try shader instead of using an asset13:13
Sfiet_Konstantinwill be "faster"13:13
faenil_devalphaCyes that was one of my questions13:14
faenil_devalphaCare you sure it is faster and more power efficient?13:14
faenil_devalphaCalso, should it fade in or just appear? that kinf of stuff13:14
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Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: it will be faster: no crawl on disk13:16
Sfiet_Konstantinand less memory consumption13:16
Sfiet_Konstantinand the shader is executed on GPU, so not much CPU burnt13:16
Sfiet_Konstantinbut about energy efficiency, that's an open question13:16
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: make it appear first13:16
Sfiet_Konstantinfade can be made in better13:17
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: it might even be more efficient in term of energy so13:17
faenil_devalphaCyes it could, and it could not13:17
faenil_devalphaCbut I'm more shader oriented, I don't like the img trick13:18
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: me too13:18
Sfiet_Konstantinso good :)13:18
Merbotphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#427 waiting for review at
faenil_devalphaCbut you know, we have a design lead for a reason ;)13:19
faenil_devalphaCotherwise I could have chosen myself :D13:19
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: I told him about using a shader13:19
Sfiet_Konstantinhe said, ok, but he don't know much and don't know if it is hard or easy to do13:19
faenil_devalphaCOk ;)13:20
Merbotphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#428 waiting for review at
faenil_devalphaCalso, are those opacity values for the pressed state?13:20
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faenil_devalphaCthats not clear from the spec13:21
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: good question13:21
faenil_devalphaCI guess pressed state is not only shown with that circle effect, which, as the spec says, could be hidden by the thumb13:22
qwazixfaenil_devalphaC, listening13:27
qwazixfaenil, Sfiet_Konstantin which opacity values?13:29
faenil_devalphaCqwazix read backlog for last 5 minutes :)13:30
faenil_devalphaC0.6 for example on button13:30
qwazixlet me check latest version, I don't see 0.613:30
faenil_devalphaCon top, legend13:31
qwazixno that's just examples13:31
qwazixsaying what the icons mean13:31
faenil_devalphaCahh ok...real legend13:31
faenil_devalphaCso what happens on pressed? only circle effect which you may not even see?13:31
qwazixonly circle effect, big enough to see part of it13:32
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faenil_devalphaCdepending on your thumb :D13:32
qwazix(that's why it glows a bit too much)13:32
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: do you have huge thumbs ?13:32
faenil_devalphaCI don't agree very much, but I'll trust graphics guys :D13:32
faenil_devalphaCyep :D13:33
qwazixI think it will be enough, but if we see that it's confusing, we will just additionally lighten the whole button a bit.13:33
qwazixregarding shader, I'm all in, I just wrote a way I know it can be done easily. We should avoid doing that probably and let devs decide13:34
faenil_devalphaCok ;)13:35
qwazix(Morpog also did it for the switch, you are also free to animate the color instead of varying opacity of two layers or whatever is better performance-wise)13:35
faenil_devalphaCsfiet, I should be able to publish repo base this evening13:36
faenil_devalphaCSfiet_Konstantin: ^13:37
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: coool13:37
Sfiet_Konstantinwill take a look and try to import it13:38
Sfiet_Konstantinwe kickstart the project next week13:38
faenil_devalphaCimport in what13:38
Sfiet_Konstantinin my device13:38
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faenil_devalphaCah ok13:38
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Sfiet_KonstantinI should have used "load"13:38
faenil_devalphaClesson is about to finish, when I'm back home we'll talk about orientation handling13:39
Sfiet_Konstantinwell, I'm not sure that I will be there13:39
faenil_devalphaCok let's do it from phone then13:41
faenil_devalphaCsince jolla guys are away13:41
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faenil_devalphaCdo you know anything about platform orientation handling?13:41
faenil_devalphaCwill there be any?13:41
faenil_devalphaCor do we have to do it client side like with qtcomponents?13:41
aknightfaenil_devalphaC: depends on if you want to do it the way "the other guys" do it13:42
aknightfaenil_devalphaC: are you using colorful-home?13:43
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: ehm13:43
faenil_devalphaCaknight yes13:43
faenil_devalphaCI'd like to do it platform sid13:44
aknightfaenil_devalphaC: ios/android/blackberry/winphone all have a way of resizing the app's viewport based on a manifest file13:44
faenil_devalphaCe.g. I'd like the view to be resized13:44
faenil_devalphaCI don't really like it doing it client side, looks weird to me13:45
Sfiet_Konstantinaknight: but you cannot have a page that cannot be rotated and another one that can13:45
faenil_devalphaCthe window should rotate imho, not the content13:45
aknightok, so first figure out how you want to define it (does it come from the .desktop file, or is it just based on what the window contentOrientation is)13:45
faenil_devalphaCsifet, you can enforce that from page13:45
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: I prefer client side13:45
Sfiet_Konstantineasier to do imho13:46
faenil_devalphaCaknight we'd be set if Screen.orientation worked13:46
aknightclient-side is easier, at least with qt/qml13:46
Sfiet_Konstantinah hum13:46
faenil_devalphaCbut it doesn't13:46
Sfiet_Konstantinlet me think again13:46
aknightScreen.orientation isn't writable13:46
Sfiet_KonstantinI would love to have a server side13:46
Sfiet_Konstantinusing client side api and dbus to communicate to server13:46
faenil_devalphaCaknight I know13:46
faenil_devalphaCbut it doesn't change13:46
ZogG_lap1opi think there should be parameter on servr side that have current value and trigers future13:46
faenil_devalphaCwhile it should, when you rotate the phone13:47
ZogG_lap1opand on client side you decide how to use it13:47
aknightwell the Qt way is to set Window.contentOrientation based on Screen.orientation13:47
faenil_devalphaCaknight, and that would be great already, except Screen orientation is fixed atm13:47
aknightyou need to do that anyway if you want decorations (volume overlay, etc.) to be in the right orientation13:47
faenil_devalphaCthay ois the problem13:47
aknightfaenil_devalphaC: just need to fix that in your compositor13:48
aknightfaenil_devalphaC: qtwayland has a setOutputOrientation method13:48
aknightthen your clients will get updates13:48
faenil_devalphaCif Screen.orientation would work, I wouldn't be here talking about it :)13:48
Sfiet_Konstantinwow wow wow13:48
qwazixRe: orientation, please don't do it the harmattan way...13:48
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat is Screen.Orientation etc.13:49
aknightand your clients must also set orientationUpdateMask13:49
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm not understanding anything :(13:49
faenil_devalphaCqwazix that is client aide13:49
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Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: mind doing a summary ?13:49
faenil_devalphaCSfiet it's from Screen qml element13:49
qwazixIf you are landscape, everything should be landscape except locked ones13:49
faenil_devalphaCqwazix didn't it work like that?13:49
qwazixswiping away from a landscape browser to the window below it (or the home screen if unlocked) and having to wait for it to rotate is just bad UI13:49
aknightanyway getting Screen.orientation to work is entirely possible13:50
faenil_devalphaCah I see what you mean13:50
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_devalphaC: we need to get Screen.orientation to work IMO13:50
faenil_devalphaCaknight yes that is what I want to do13:50
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Sfiet_Konstantinmaybe Jolla guys have dne that already13:50
faenil_devalphaCSfiet that was my main point13:50
qwazixNo, and neither does on BB10. If you rotate the browser and swipe it away, then rotate the phone and focus the browser, you have to wait for it to rotate again13:50
Sfiet_Konstantinor what about no orientation and do it after, when we need it ?13:51
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sledgesit's all about resources question qwazix: when you rotate the phone with 10 apps open and 1 app on top, should all 10 apps redraw offscreen (in vain)13:51
qwazix(client side would be ok if everything rotates even when in the background)13:51
Sfiet_Konstantinlet's do portrait everything, and get landscape enabled when we have more knowledge, or stuff implemented13:51
Sfiet_Konstantinand thought about all the flows13:51
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: +113:52
qwazixsledges, at least home and windows that you would see when swiping away should (and it can be done smartly using idle time)13:52
aknightadd an orientation sensor to your compositor, and setScreenOrientation with it13:52
faenil_devalphaCI'm going back home I'll read backlog in a few mins13:52
qwazixthose apps know they are in the background, they can "rotateWhenReady()" instead of waiting for the worst time to rotate, when activated13:53
aknightthen call setOrientationUPdateMask in your app, and Screen.orientation will change13:53
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sledgesqwazix, that already sounds like a nice idea for solution. so a client-side orientation it is then13:54
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: you can use dbus to notify the clients13:55
Sfiet_Konstantinso it can be anything13:55
Sfiet_Konstantinand I would prefer server honestly13:55
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Sfiet_Konstantinor what aknight sent. I don't know wayland much, but it might be useful to notify the clients that orientation changed13:56
sledgesok Sfiet_Konstantin , it means now the qwazix issue will be addressed/solved later. but a very important aspect, thanks qwazix13:56
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: indeed, it is13:56
sledgesi can't really understand orientation client side vs server side13:57
sledgescould you please explain13:57
aknighti would recommend using existing wayland support whenever possible13:57
sledgesso we recap13:57
sledgesand with having resource abuse in mind ofc13:57
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: server: wayland / lipstick handles orientation, client: each app draws itself depending on orientation13:58
aknightin server-side orientation, the client window is resized and composed rotated13:58
Sfiet_Konstantinaknight: can you enlight us more on qtwayland ? Is your method linked provides orientation information for Qt Clients (like Screen.orientation ?)13:58
aknightSfiet_Konstantin: that's exactly what it does13:58
Sfiet_Konstantinaknight: awesome :)13:59
Sfiet_Konstantindidn't knew that qtWayland have this function13:59
Sfiet_Konstantinthis simplifies close to everything13:59
Sfiet_Konstantinthere is no need of client side orientation handling then13:59
sledgesbbiab, looking all good so far14:00
aknightclient-side orientation tends to be easier to animate14:00
aknightand it might prove better for issues like subpixel antialiasing14:00
Sfiet_Konstantinaknight: true14:01
Sfiet_Konstantinbut server side implementation have quite a lot of advantages here now: it can handle notifictions / volume indicator orientation easily14:01
Sfiet_Konstantin(if compositor handle them)14:01
Sfiet_Konstantinthere is API for it14:02
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faenillet's read14:07
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: already at home ?14:07
Sfiet_Konstantinthat was fast14:07
faenilehehe Pisa is bicycle only ;)14:13
faenilaknight, so, is Screen.orientation method server side as it uses wayland orientation handling?14:15
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: it eems14:15
Sfiet_Konstantinwe should try14:15
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faenilSfiet_Konstantin, I want to get theory first ;)14:15
Sfiet_Konstantinif it is not, then it would be a pity, honestly14:15
Sfiet_Konstantinwe are in CS faenil14:16
Sfiet_Konstantinthere is no theory, only practice14:16
aknightfaenil: yeah so when you setScreenOrientation() in the compositor, it shows up client-side as Screen.orientation14:16
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faenilyes, and why is that more difficult to animate? just connect to the property change and animate accordingly?14:16
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, it's completely opposite in Italy, sorry ;)14:16
aknightfaenil: well you also need to configure the client to resize, and that will typically be done once14:17
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: it is the same for every school14:17
Sfiet_Konstantinbut I learnt as OSS hacker that you need to hack to make it work14:17
faenilaknight, yes, so? :)14:19
faenila method call at startup that is?14:19
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Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: startup of what ?14:19
Sfiet_Konstantincompositor ?14:19
Sfiet_Konstantinyep I guess14:19
faenilof the app14:19
Sfiet_Konstantinfor what ?14:19
Sfiet_Konstantindetecting orientation ?14:19
faenilaknight said we need setUpdateMask or whatever that was14:19
Sfiet_Konstantinyou can use Screen for that14:19
faenilseems like that's not enough14:20
Sfiet_Konstantinah, did not get this14:20
faenilI was trying to understand why animating server-side handled apps is more difficult14:20
Sfiet_Konstantinwe will also need some methods to propagate an orientation fix to the compositor14:20
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: because your app will have to react from a strange behaviour14:20
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, why? you just set window.orientation accordingly14:20
Sfiet_Konstantinthat is being resized14:20
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: is window.orientation something implemented ?14:21
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, the same you'd do if client side14:21
Sfiet_KonstantinI don't know this much14:21
Sfiet_Konstantinah ok14:21
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, yes Window component in QtQuick214:21
Sfiet_Konstantinthought that it has to be implemented14:21
Sfiet_Konstantinwooow, souds easy14:21
Sfiet_Konstantinneed to try though14:21
faenilno it's there already, we just don't have Screen.orientation working ;)14:21
faenilAnd I was trying to understand all pros/cons of server/client side handling14:21
faenilbefore we decide14:21
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: we need to tell the compositor to provide it14:22
faenilthus trying to understand why animating with server-side orientation is more difficult, as aknight said14:22
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, yes14:22
Sfiet_Konstantinit would be really easier if Screen works (better consistency with Qt API etc etc)14:22
faenilI'll look into that as I get ideas clear in my mind ;)14:22
faenilyes of course, I don't think there's anyone who wants to do it differently ;)14:22
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Sfiet_KonstantinFor your question about client side animation I said it:14:23
Sfiet_Konstantinyour window will suddenly be stretched and be less tall14:23
Sfiet_Konstantinand you need to animate from there14:23
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faenilbut I don't think the user will see it14:23
faenilas you get notified when that happens14:23
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faeniland you start animating, are hide the window or whatever14:24
Sfiet_Konstantin(because server side orientation sets your width and height of window)14:24
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: well, you might need to be cautious imo14:24
Sfiet_Konstantinwe have to experiment, that's all14:24
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faenilyes, just wanted opinions from someone who's working on it fulltime :P but aknight is afk now it seems :D14:24
aknightfaenil: back. what do you want to know?14:25
faenilmore details about why server side is more difficult to animate14:25
faenilas you still get notified when Screen.orientation changes14:25
faenilso you can do whatever you want to change layout and bla bla14:26
Sfiet_Konstantinaknight: and what is that subpixel aliasing thing :/14:26
aknightfaenil: so if you window suddenly resizes, you can't animate your elements between the two sizes as easily if only your root item resized14:27
Sfiet_Konstantinaknight: except is your root item is anchored to the window14:27
aknightit depends on how you define your transition of course14:27
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faenilaknight, well, window is THE root item of everything :D14:28
aknightfaenil: just prototype it, i think you'll see what i mean. you won't likely want to do intermediate resize events on the window itself14:29
aknightso there will be e.g. one frame portrait, the next frame landscape - how to animate it?14:29
faenilwell, when you get notified of screen.orientation change you start the animation14:30
faenilso the user shouldn't be able to see the change14:30
Sfiet_Konstantinaknight: don't animate it ? :D14:30
faenilbefore the animation starts14:30
aknightdon't animate it is fine14:30
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faenilaknight, but maybe I got your point14:30
aknightall i'm saying is that you can provide a smooth transition if your root item is allowed to have intermediate values14:31
faenilaknight, ahhhh right14:31
faenilok I see the problem now14:31
aknightand in compositor-side rotation, you normally don't provide intermediate values because you are resizing a graphics resource. of course you can hack around it by making a setup where the graphics resource is never resized, part of it just wasted14:32
faenilyeah we need an middle layer to handle that change smoothly14:32
faenilso server changes window size suddenly, we change the rest smoothly14:33
faenilwhich is kind of half server half client orientation handling :D14:33
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: this is server side orientation14:34
Sfiet_Konstantinjust client side transitionning14:34
faeniland I like it this way :)14:34
faenilwho votes for client-side?14:34
faenilaknight, also, could you say more about setUpdateMask? I have never seen that used, why do we need that and why isn't fixing screen.orientation enough?14:35
aknightfaenil: the idea is that if no clients want orientation updates, you can turn off the orientation sensor14:36
faenilah ok14:36
faenilso that's just to signal the compositor that we need updates14:37
aknightfaenil: so by default apps don't see changes to screen.orientation because they haven't "registered their interest" by calling setOrientationUpdateMask()14:37
faenilok, so it might be that orientation works already in nemo but we're not registering to get the event14:37
faenilfor the rest of the world:,2798114:38
Sfiet_Konstantinthanks faenil14:39
faenilit's also documented, sorry aknight for wasting your time
qwazixfaenil, Sfiet_Konstantin, maybe we can use this to define device-independent-units?
Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: I'm not a huge fan, I would prefer to compute them on the fly on each device instead14:40
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faenilqwazix, I was about to use C preprocessor few months ago :D14:41
faenilI mean, why not, it's C preprocessor, let's use it for what it is for! :D14:41
qwazixSfiet_Konstantin, I would prefer that too but maybe there's a tax because of property bindings and constant calculations14:41
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: how would you use C++ ?14:41
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: define them as constant14:41
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, ??14:41
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Sfiet_Konstantincreate a singleton QML class from C++14:42
Sfiet_Konstantinlike NemoTheme: public QObject14:42
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, I'm talking about using #ifdef in QML :P14:42
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: what about doing it from C++ ?14:42
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: :D14:42
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, are you only tlaking about the U constant?14:42
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat is the problem actual problem ?14:42
Sfiet_Konstantinisn't it adaptation screen resolution and dpi ?14:43
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, if you're talking about the theme constant, I already proposed exposing qml property via cpp :)14:43
faeniland cpp reads it from ENV_VAR once at app startup14:43
qwazixI'm thinking that writing always 1*U is going to be cumbersome for devs and they'll end up doing it the wrong way (i.e. absolute)14:43
faeniland that ENV_VAR is shipped with device configuration package14:43
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faenilsuch as nemo-configs-n950-n914:43
qwazixif we use the preprocessor to just multiply all sizes with U before running the qml we are gold14:44
faenilqwazix, you think u(x) is any better?14:44
faenilah, ok14:44
faenilbut you should be able to detect all damn sizes14:44
faenilnot just all numbers14:44
faenilalso, that means tricking the dev into believing his button will be 200px large14:45
faenilwhile it will actually be 200*u :D14:45
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: I would propose to provide a couple of sizes, that are precalcucalted and exposed via theme component14:45
Sfiet_Konstantinand developer should never multiply14:45
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, ???14:45
Sfiet_Konstantinthey should always call Theme.someSize14:45
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, you already have implicitWidth and Height for qml components14:46
Sfiet_KonstantinI got it ... but having a preprocessor might not be the best either14:46
faenilI just said why I wouldn't use preprocessor14:47
faenilyou can't just multiply without letting the dev know14:47
Sfiet_Konstantinpfeuuu, I'm relieved :D14:47
faenilunless I misunderstood qwazix's idea14:47
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, that said, read my idea and say if you have anything better in mind :)14:47
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: well, actually, it might even be better when you pushed code14:48
Sfiet_KonstantinI will review it and play with it14:48
Sfiet_Konstantinand we can still refactor later14:48
Sfiet_Konstantinsince we are not carving anything into stone now14:48
faeniloh crap, you don't like planning do youi14:48
faenilyeah I know, but :)14:48
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: the truth in SW dev is that planning everything might leads to badly designed SW14:49
faenilagree on that14:49
Sfiet_Konstantinwe can plan a bit, code a bit, redo some review etc14:49
faenilbut planning nothing may lead to a big waste of time14:49
Sfiet_Konstantinso, yeah, right now, let's multiply by u14:49
faeniland time is critical for us ;)14:49
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: time is more critical for Jolla, trust me :D14:49
Sfiet_Konstantinat least, we don't have to deliver in december14:49
faenilahah :)14:49
qwazixIf it was easy, I would modify Qt to multiply all sizes with u and never tell the developer :P14:49
Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: :O14:50
Sfiet_KonstantinI remember a discussion about this on Qt dev ml14:50
faenilqwazix, seriously, I want the button to be 200px and you change it to 300 without telling me?14:50
Sfiet_Konstantintalking about highdpi macs14:50
Sfiet_KonstantinI wonder if it is not already in Qt in some sort14:50
qwazixfaenil, no qml never says "px"14:50
faenilqwazix, but it's implicit14:50
faenileveryone knows it's px14:50
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: not really, as I said, I'm not ure that it is the truth for high dpi macs14:51
Sfiet_Konstantin(retina as they call it)14:51
qwazixyeah and everyone knew it's px on the web and they changed it14:51
faenilqwazix, but we're Nemo, small players, we can't change it, we're not APple :D14:51
qwazixpx is not px anymore, anywhere. We have the added bonus of not even pretending to use px, like css14:52
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faenilas you say :D I can hear people saying "nemo components suck, I can never decide sizes for stuff because they change it how they want it to be"14:53
Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: lol, that's not true14:53
Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: we can push a commit to Qt and expect to change Qt behavior14:53
qwazixSfiet_Konstantin, ^^^14:53
qwazixthey already did14:54
Sfiet_Konstantinthanks qwazix14:54
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm reading it14:54
qwaziximportant snippet "Qt Quick 2 and the Qt Quick Controls work well out-of-the box. As with widgets coordinates are in device-independent pixels. "14:54
faenilmmm nice14:55
qwazix"Simplified, the application layer operates in the device-independent pixel space and does not know about device pixels."14:55
Sfiet_Konstantinbut how do you set the ratio ?14:56
Sfiet_KonstantinI have read that you have that experimental env variable14:56
Sfiet_Konstantinwonder if there is something in qt wl as well14:56
faenilso they already have what we're looking for? XD14:56
qwazixsort of14:57
qwazixwe have to include QPA14:58
faenillooks totally the same14:58
Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: don't seems to be easy14:59
Sfiet_Konstantinnothing in wl qpa ?14:59
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faenil"Font pixel sizes are device-independent pixel sizes. You never get tiny text on high-dpi displays."15:00
DrCodehi all15:01
DrCodedose nemomobile run good on n900?15:01
DrCodefull support?15:01
DrCodecan I run android apps?15:01
Sfiet_KonstantinDrCode: it should15:01
faenilDrCode, no android apps15:01
Sfiet_KonstantinDrCode: supported by the community (including the risks)15:01
faenilDrCode, this is not sailfish :D15:01
Sfiet_KonstantinDrCode: we don't have an Android VM (yet ?)15:01
DrCode I see15:02
DrCodesailfish is intersting15:02
faenilindeed it is :)15:02
DrCodeI am thinking to replace my memo15:02
DrCodebut not sure15:02
faenilohhh noooo! " To facilitate this, Qt as adopted the “@2x” convention for image filenames:"15:03
faenilApple won XD15:03
faenilqwazix, ^15:03
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: that's not a problem15:03
Sfiet_Konstantinwe don't care15:03
Sfiet_KonstantinI think it is for Mac15:04
faenilyes it was just something I remember qwazix said about that convention being stupid15:04
faenilmaybe aknight can help us with this as well?15:05
faenil(sorry bro :D)15:05
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: ok :D15:05
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: maybe indeed15:05
Sfiet_Konstantinaknight: ^^15:05
Sfiet_Konstantindoes wl qpa supports dpi etc. ?15:06
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faenilqwazix, Hurrian Morpog_Mobile anyway guys, it would be great if you could take QtQuickControls 5.1 documentation as guidelines for components specs15:10
faenilso that you can see which features the components should provide and adapt those to Glacier styling15:10
faenilqwazix, Hurrian Morpog_Mobile for example, as Sfiet_Konstantin pointed out, we don't have specs for Button's "checked" state, which has to be handled as it's part of QQC's Button element15:11
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: we will have to have specific API I'm afraid15:12
Sfiet_Konstantinlike the fact that we have a specific header15:12
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Sfiet_Konstantinwe will also have stuff that is not implemented, like StatusBar15:13
Sfiet_Konstantinhowever, a lot of API should comes from QQC, indeed15:13
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, adding stuff is okay, but we shouldn't modify, as far as possible15:13
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: indeed15:13
faenilessentially because QQC will evolve, and we want to avoid keep tracking them and importing changing from upstream15:13
faenilso we should just provide styling wherever possible15:13
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: or maybe we should go to upstream15:14
Sfiet_Konstantinor at least talk with15:14
faenilthat doesn't solve the issue15:14
faenileven if you go upstream, if you do custom Button you have to keep track of the official one15:14
faenilbecause Digia guys won't fix bugs in Nemo components as well :P15:14
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: yeah, we can stick with API as much as possible15:15
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, not just API15:15
Sfiet_Konstantinand talk with digia guys when needed15:15
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: what more ?15:16
faenillet's suppose we want to change something in Button, a behaviour15:16
faenilwe copy Button.qml, modify the behaviour, and create a ButtonStyle.qml with glacier styling15:16
faenilthis way we lost all bugfixes to official Button.qml which could affect us as well15:16
Sfiet_Konstantintell me more about how QQC works15:16
Sfiet_Konstantinis it just QML styling ?15:16
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faenilYou have qml files and cpp files for components themselves15:17
faeniland the *Style.qml files for styling those components15:17
Sfiet_Konstantinindeed we should keep what comes with QQC intact15:17
faenilideally behaviour is in Button.qml, style in ButtonStyle.qml15:17
Sfiet_Konstantinand add a style or something like that15:17
faenilso, that is my point15:17
faenillet's try not to modify behaviour15:18
Sfiet_Konstantinyeah, what I meant by API is anything provided by QQC15:18
faenilas it's not just keeping the same API, it's about keeping the same file, which is the one updated by Digia :D15:18
faenilso we get updates and bugfixes for free15:18
Sfiet_KonstantinIMO, if the file is updated by Digia, it is an API :D15:18
Sfiet_Konstantinbb in a minute15:19
faenilyes, but if you do your Button.qml with same API, Digia won't update it ;)15:19
faenilthat is the point :P15:19
faenilso keeping API is not enough :D15:19
Sfiet_Konstantinyeah, ok, we understand each other15:19
faenilyeah ;15:19
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm just not using the good word15:19
Sfiet_Konstantinbb in a minute15:19
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sledgescan qqc/qml components be inherited?15:34
sledgesso GlacierButton could derive Button.qml15:34
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: like all component, yes15:34
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: I won't do that15:34
sledgesso re-usability is fine then15:34
Sfiet_Konstantinthe idea is, for devs, to do import QQC and code with QQC15:34
Sfiet_Konstantinwe should just theme QQC15:34
Sfiet_Konstantinbecause in your case, you have import org.nemomobile.glacier 1.0, and use GlacierButton15:35
sledgesand when API is needed?15:35
sledgeswe overwrite?15:35
sledgesno, because we have custom controls15:35
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sledges(switch is not on qqc 5.1.0 what we use now btw, will be only when we switch to 5.1.1)15:36
sledges*Switch component that is15:36
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Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: I would love somehting like15:36
Sfiet_Konstantinimport QQC 1.015:37
faenilalright black15:37
Sfiet_Konstantinimport org.nemo.QQCExtra15:37
Sfiet_Konstantinand have switch in org.nemo.QQCExtra15:37
faenilback, not black xD15:37
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: when you go black you never go back ?15:37
sledgesSfiet_Konstantin, isn't it how it's going to be?15:38
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: be what, with QQCextra ?15:38
faenilsledges, you can inherit but only to add stuff?15:38
sledgesso we'll have to ditch button's CheckedState for now as faenil said..15:38
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: you can change some stuff too15:38
sledgesSfiet_Konstantin, yes15:39
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, some, but not private stuff15:39
faenilso what's the point15:39
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faenilwe didn't solve anything15:39
Sfiet_Konstantinbut the problem is that you cannot implement a GlacierButton, and expect QQC to expose it as a Button15:39
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: indeed, no private stuff15:39
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, actually you can15:39
sledgesqqcextra approach, Sfiet_Konstantin, is how qt tizen guys did15:39
faeniljust import official QQC in Button.qml15:39
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: you can :O15:40
Sfiet_Konstantinwait wait15:40
Sfiet_KonstantinI just can't understand how QQC works15:40
faenilit's QML XD15:40
Sfiet_Konstantinwhen you import QQC, Qt searchs for Button.qml etc in a QQC folder15:40
Sfiet_Konstantinbut how can you make it to look at GlacierButton15:40
faenilqml plugins15:40
sledgesSfiet_Konstantin, im talking about the no-GlacierButton case15:40
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faenilright now we have QtQuick.Controls.Nemo 1.015:41
sledgesI'm talking about Switch in qqcextra case15:41
faenilthat import will add our controls15:41
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: ok, understood15:41
Sfiet_Konstantinwe are not just using the import QtQuick.Controls import15:41
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Sfiet_Konstantinwe have our own one15:41
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faenilwe're using both15:41
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faeniland I guess import order is important in this case15:41
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: as a dev15:41
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat should I use15:41
Sfiet_KonstantinQQC, QQCn, both15:41
faenilimport QQC 1.0; import QQC.Nemo 1.015:41
faenilthis way you'll get Button from Nemo plugin, as I see it15:42
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: we should skip the import QQC case and import QQC in QQCn15:42
faenil(if you have redefined it in Nemo plugin)15:42
Sfiet_Konstantinit is error prone when import order matters15:42
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: ok :)15:42
Sfiet_Konstantinbut shouldn't we just provide import QQCn ?15:42
Sfiet_KonstantinQQCn imports QQC itself15:42
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, well, this way you don't have to create new nemo components15:42
Sfiet_Konstantin(because in QQCn, you import QQC right ?)15:43
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: just mirrors them15:43
Sfiet_Konstantinlike in QQCn, you import QQC and do nothing15:43
faenilyeah, might be an option15:43
Sfiet_Konstantinjob for a code monkey, but you have to do it15:43
Sfiet_Konstantinthink about dev experience :)15:43
sledgesSfiet_Konstantin, +1, I had same thought some days ago (but unsure how qml imports work)15:43
sledgesi.e. do they cascade imports or not15:43
faenilbut official components are not in the same repo15:43
Sfiet_Konstantinno need of QQCextra then, we put additional stuff, like switch in QQCn15:43
faenilwe need submodule and bla bla bla15:44
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: is that a problem that official are not here ?15:44
sledgesimportant they are installed side-by-side15:44
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: no need of submodule, we just create a qml plugin, that depends on QQC15:44
faenilwell, you don't want to copy the qml files do you?15:44
faeniljust tell the plugin to look at official files ehheeh15:44
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: no, I just write something like15:44
Sfiet_KonstantinButton.qml (in QQCn)15:44
Sfiet_Konstantinimport QQC Button {}15:44
Sfiet_Konstantinthat's all15:44
faenilbut I don't like that very much15:45
Sfiet_Konstantinnot mirrors, but use inheritance15:45
Sfiet_Konstantinwhy ?15:45
faenilinstead we can just tell the plugin to get files from the official ones15:45
faenilso we don't have to do the useless mirroring15:45
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: D:15:45
faenilin qmldir file you say "Button 1.0 ../go/get/official/ones/Button.qml"15:45
faeniland we're set eehehehe15:45
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: are you sure that this works15:46
* sledges bbl15:46
Sfiet_Konstantinthis can work indeed15:46
faenilwhy shouldn't it :)15:46
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: because it is outside of the folder ?15:46
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm unsure about any limitations of this kind, but there might be15:46
faenilno that's not a problem afaik15:46
Sfiet_Konstantinthen let's do that15:46
Sfiet_KonstantinI agree with this approach15:46
faenillet me find an example15:46
locusfsounds good15:46
faenilhey locusf o/15:46
locusffaenil: \o15:47
locusfwas reading your conversation for a while now :)15:47
Sfiet_Konstantinmorning locusf :D15:47
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locusfhey Sfiet_Konstantin15:47
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: this is so dirty15:48
Sfiet_Konstantinbut let's go with this15:48
Sfiet_Konstantinsouds quite nice15:48
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faenilI'm open to better ideas ;)15:49
Sfiet_Konstantinand even better, faenil, we should stick with QQC and QQCn imports until QQCn components mirroring is fixed15:49
faenilthis looks cleanest imho15:49
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: I think that this is the best15:49
faenil(if it works correctly)15:49
Sfiet_Konstantinyeah +115:49
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faenilSfiet_Konstantin, though this means it won't use a newer QQC that you may have on Nemo15:53
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: ??15:53
faenillet's say you have QQC 5.2 installed in Nemo15:53
Sfiet_Konstantindamn, I'm so tired today, I'm not understanding half of what faenil says15:53
faenilQQC Nemo will ignore that15:53
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: except if you update your implmentation of QQCn15:54
faenilbecause it will use the QQC official components it was built with15:54
faenilyes...of course15:54
Sfiet_Konstantinand it won't be an issue: newer QQC won't have the theming of Nemo15:54
faenilno, wait15:54
Sfiet_Konstantindoes it makes sense to have a "desktop" button inside nemo ? better use the nemo version of QQC15:54
faenilstyles are always provided by our package15:55
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Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: I'm lost then15:55
Sfiet_Konstantinyou don't need to have QQCn to provide theme ?15:55
Sfiet_Konstantinyou can ship theme in a separate package ?15:55
Sfiet_Konstantinthen what is the point of QQCn ?15:55
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faenilexactly that of shipping style files for official controls, and custom controls if necessary15:55
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: so raw QQC, without QQCn installed, won't be styled15:56
Sfiet_Konstantinso ok15:56
Sfiet_Konstantinthis changes nothing15:56
faenilin fact this was not the point15:56
Sfiet_Konstantinif you have Qt 5.2 QQC, it is likely that the theming was not updated15:56
faenilargh it's difficult to explain in Chat :D15:56
Sfiet_Konstantinso that newer QQC is not fully themed15:56
Sfiet_Konstantinand not fully useable15:56
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, but what if it's just a bugfix release?15:57
Sfiet_Konstantinthen it should work15:57
faenilI'm not saying mirroring is wrong, I'm just thinking about problems that will arise ;)15:57
faenilno it shouldn't15:57
Sfiet_Konstantinwhy won't it: we either mirrors (so we mirrors the bugfix verion) or we inherit, and inherit the bugfix version15:57
faenilbecaues if you do mirroring then QQCn will ignore the new QQC bugfix release you've installed on nemo15:57
Sfiet_Konstantinnew QQC will be installed with the same name, in the same folder15:58
faenilI think mirroring is done when building the .so file15:58
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: no15:58
faenilthat is the issue15:58
Sfiet_Konstantinthe files put in qmldir are resolved at runtime15:58
faenilwell, if I'm wrong then it's all good ;)15:58
faenilalright great then ;)15:58
Sfiet_Konstantinpita otherwise15:59
Sfiet_Konstantinhaving files being solved at runtime really speeds dev too15:59
faenilso we don't even need the submodule15:59
Sfiet_Konstantinyou don't need to cross recompile if you want to change stuff15:59
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: submodule ?15:59
Sfiet_Konstantinthe .so ?15:59
faenilno maybe you missed the point before, I said we should have added a submodule with official QQC on git16:00
faenilso that we could use the mirroring style I proposed16:00
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: no nede of submodule16:00
faenilbut if those paths are considered at runtime, then no need for submodule ;)16:00
Sfiet_Konstantinif QQC is packaged in mer:qt, we should take this oe16:00
faenileverything is good, and we can avoid using double import16:00
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: indeed16:01
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, they're in Nemo:MW, and I already set it as Requires in QQCn packaging ;)16:01
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: awesome16:02
Sfiet_Konstantinno submodule, and everything is easy :)16:02
faenilyup :)16:02
faenilI'm loving this :D16:06
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: waiting for your initial push :)16:06
Sfiet_Konstantinit's gonna be awesome :)16:06
faenilyeah! \o/16:07
Sfiet_Konstantinhum ... how to share it16:07
Sfiet_KonstantinI have made some slides for my project presentation next week16:07
Sfiet_Konstantinbut I have no way to share it16:07
Sfiet_Konstantinand honestly, they are plain aweful16:07
faenilow :16:08
Sfiet_Konstantinbut at least you could know the name of the other guy working with us16:08
Sfiet_Konstantinhe still have to install an IRC client, linux and the Mer SDK so :D16:08
faenilah ok :D16:08
Sfiet_Konstantinat school, we are doing projects in groups of >= 216:08
faenilgreat that you get to work on cool stuff :)16:08
Sfiet_Konstantinwe have to wait for him to pop into IRC :D16:08
Sfiet_Konstantinand we might need to SSH tunnel somewhere, because IRC ports are blocked here16:09
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm using an SSH tunnel :D16:09
faenillol16:09 ;)16:09
Sfiet_Konstantinbut I like my konversation16:09
Sfiet_KonstantinSSH tunnel is ok :)16:09
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qwazixfaenil, Sfiet_Konstantin, sledges, I cannot really find a way to fit checked state of button in glacier16:14
qwazixWe already have switch for that and buttonRow for multiselection, so I think it's not quite needed UI wise16:15
qwazixnow if we absolutely must provide that state for compatibility I'll try to figure something16:15
ZogG_lap1opwhat is checked state of button?16:15
ZogG_lap1opyou mean pressed?16:16
ZogG_lap1oplike pressed and unreleased?16:16
qwazix(since hurrian created an "important" button, which looks more "checked-ish" I have a hard time thinking of something to distinguish them)16:16
qwazixZogG_lap1op, there was a pressed state, which looked as you describe, unreleased, that was actually something like a checkbox16:17
qwazixboolean state16:17
Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: Isn't buttonRow a row of buttons ?16:17
Sfiet_Konstantin(that need to provide check state)16:17
Sfiet_Konstantinor is it a component on it's own ?16:17
qwazixyeah, but a buttonRow of one doesn't make sence16:17
ZogG_lap1opi got lost. i always thoguht that button has only 2 states :)16:17
qwazixor better, it's up to the dev who codes it to decide if buttons will be the children of buttonRow or something else16:18
ZogG_lap1opi think button row can evem look different from buttons near one each other16:19
qwazixZogG_lap1op, button (qml) has many states: normal, pressed, disabled, checked maybe more16:19
Sfiet_KonstantinI think we should use this16:19
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm not sure though16:19
ZogG_lap1opi hve no idea what is checked and where it is used and what for. but i would agree there are more than 2 states16:20
Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: a cartesian product of (normal, checked) x (enabled, disabled)16:20
ZogG_lap1opas i forgot disabled16:20
Sfiet_Konstantin+ some specific cases like pressed16:20
Sfiet_KonstantinI count 5 states :D16:20
Sfiet_Konstantinso basically, a button row would be a sort of exclusive group, with many buttons inside16:21
Sfiet_Konstantinso a button should use the checked state you described in button row16:21
Sfiet_Konstantin(what I'm proposing is not unlike harmattan)16:21
qwazixSfiet_Konstantin, do we really need exclusiveGroup? I mean if a developer mis-uses it we might end with switches behaving as radio buttons => bad UX16:21
Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: yes16:22
qwazixSfiet_Konstantin, yeah, we can use that, true, but I wouldn't want to expose it16:22
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Sfiet_Konstantinbut here is the weak boundary between giving too much power to dev, or too little16:22
Sfiet_Konstantinhonestly, QML already gives quite a lot of power, and it is hard to get them back when you give them16:22
Sfiet_Konstantin(compare QtQuick to Cascades)16:22
Sfiet_Konstantin(I meant QtQuick, not QML)16:22
Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: you might not want to expose it, but QQC exposes it16:23
Sfiet_Konstantin(sorry for that :$)16:23
Sfiet_Konstantin(I'm understanding what you are saying, I agree with it, but QQC don't :$)16:23
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Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: we can do that though: sending a warning, and preventing developer to set checked when there is no exclusiveGroup set for a Button16:27
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat do you think16:27
qwazixyep, that can be done16:33
qwazixand also by not exposing, I meant more not advertising16:33
qwazixI don't mind the developers to be able to do as they like, we're building free software, there's no use in locking API's16:34
Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: well you cannot really prevent that, as devs might want to do button.checked in a button row16:34
qwazixbut it's one thing to have something in your specs and docs, and another for the dev to have to do it on purpose16:34
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qwazixwe should help reduce inconsistencies as much as possible without locking anything down16:35
Sfiet_Konstantinqwazix: agreed16:35
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faenilqwazix, we could just ignore checked, and print a warning "Please use button row" or something16:48
faenilor "Please use a switch"16:51
faenilever though Switch is for On/Off stuff...checked doesn't have the same semantic16:51
faenilbb in 15mins16:55
faenilqwazix, feel free to reply I'll read from weblog16:55
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qwazixfaenil, yeah, I like that approach.16:59
qwazixre: semantics, we might have a checkbox too, for selecting things in lists, but I have to discuss with Morpog and Hurrian first17:00
ZogG_lap1opto tell peple not to use it?17:00
ZogG_lap1opdon't think it's good :(17:00
qwazixZogG_lap1op, there's no way that I can see to implement a single checked button that will look like a checked button in Glacier17:00
qwazixYou said you didn't even know there's such thing as a checked button. It's a redundant control that should not be used.17:01
qwazixWe have switch for on-off state and maybe checkbox or something else (bold lettering, tinted background?) for selected state in lists17:03
ZogG_lap1opjust do it as pressed17:04
ZogG_lap1opfor single button17:04
ZogG_lap1opit would look llogical17:04
ZogG_lap1opand it would work17:04
ZogG_lap1opinstead of telling not to use it17:05
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ZogG_lap1opqwazix: ^17:07
* ZogG_lap1op pokes faenil in eye for sneaking on chat from web log hours later17:08
qwazixZogG_lap1op, if you see pressed button it doesn't look good when no finger is over it. Besides, that is exactly the point: we don't want devs to use it because it's bad UX. Most devs, especially in FOSS platforms do not give much thought to their UX, many even hate doing UX. We should nudge them in the right direction17:10
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ZogG_lap1opqwazix: let's agree to disagree17:16
faenilqwazix, though I think this is what we need for checklist17:17
qwazixZogG_lap1op, agreed :P17:17
ZogG_lap1opas for me that' exactly what apple can tell you about iphone :)17:17
faenilZogG_lap1op, so, look for a way to fit in the checked state in Glacier button, and we'll add it, it's that easy ;)17:18
qwazixfaenil, checklist?17:19
qwazixis it a QQC?17:19
faenilqwazix, nvm, I misread the things you said while I was away17:20
faenilif we have a checkbox, we don't need checked button, otherwise we need it17:20
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qwazixfaenil, we'll probably have a checkbox or a similar way to select multiple things in lists17:25
qwazixexcept if we want to make single checkable buttons look like checkboxes and get over with it17:26
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faenilwell, it's checkboxes with text afterall17:27
faenilif I understood correctly17:27
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faenilqwazix, ping17:36
qwazixfaenil, that's what I understand too17:36
qwazixand pong17:37
faenilthat is how the Base style does it17:37
faenilalso, there is a checkbox element in QQC17:37
qwazixwe can do it like that ourselves, and still spew that warning17:37
qwazixso that if somebody does it, it will work, but not as we intended (and be warned)17:38
faenilno we can't because we don't have a button_down image :D17:38
qwazixhmm, yeah you are right, we said shaders17:39
qwazixthen just ignore it and print the warning if somebody sets checkable=true and parent!=buttonRow17:40
qwazixI have to go home, I'll be online again in about 2017:40
faenil:) is there a way to actually check the parent is a buttonRow though? :O17:40
qwazixIf there isn't we can create a __isButtonRow property and set it to true :P17:41
qwazixdirty coding ftw!17:41
faenilwe'll talk later about this17:42
faenilwe'll talk about this later17:42
faenilcrap I'm getting worse and worse at writing in English17:42
locusfit made perfect sense17:42
qwazixI didn't notice the error really17:42
aknightfaenil: instanceof works, sadly it doesn't support qml types17:44
aknightbut you could probably make a utility function that returns true if an object's class is of a certain type17:45
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faenilaknight, mmm ok :/ sounds hacky but if we have no other choice :/17:54
aknightfaenil: well i mean if you want to be really sure that an object of a certain type you should probably send it to c++ where you can look at the metaobject17:55
aknightbut it doesn't sound like this is such a case17:55
aknightalternatively you can make the default property of an object a certain type (or list of a certain type). then at least you can't add a wrongly-typed child item17:56
aknightbut again that's not this use case17:56
faenilexactly, not our cases :)17:57
faenilaknight, do you know why there is both checkbox and button checkable?17:57
faenilisn't that redundant?17:57
aknightfaenil: not sure, but it might have something to do with following the original widget api17:57
faenilI see17:58
aknightfaenil: you can make a push button latched, that's different than a checkbox17:58
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faenilaknight, mmm :/17:59
faenilaknight, can't find a latched button, what is it?18:00
* qwazix wonders what a latched button is too18:00
faenilit looks like a checkbox to me :/18:01
aknightif you have pushbutton that stays in the pressed position after clicking it18:02
aknighta toggle button18:02
zbenjaminaknight: heya18:03
qwazixaknight, there's the switch for that18:03
zbenjaminaren't you the qt windows rt guy? ;)18:03
aknightzbenjamin: only one day a week ;)18:03
aknightqwazix: they aren't the same visually though18:04
aknighti'm not defending it, i'm just saying what it is :)18:04
qwazixno, but since we are doing our own component set, we would like to avoid redundant controls to promote consistency18:04
qwazix(we are not aiming to be desktop-compatible)18:05
aknightanyway you can paint it however you like18:05
piggzfaenil: your english is better than my <insert other language here>18:12
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faenilaknight, ah ok so it's a switch but looks different18:12
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faenilpiggz, :)18:13
faenilawesome dinner here, bbl :D18:16
faenilqwazix, so what's the final input? check parent and issue warning?18:16
faenilyou know what, I'll leave a TODO so we can fix this once all components are set and we know how we did ButtonRow :D18:17
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faenilaknight, is there a chance nemo only needs setOrientUpdateMask?18:21
faenilor do you already know OrientSensor needs to be added?18:21
qwazixfaenil, I'd say yes to the question, but leaving a TODO is also a sane choice18:25
rcgevening all :918:26
Stskeepsevening rcg18:26
rcghow's it going?18:29
Stskeepsthe usual18:29
rcgfaenil, any updates on nemo+wayland+qt5? maybe even a new image? :)18:29
rcgStskeeps, heh, i take this as "not bad" :)18:30
rcgour boy just had some pretty "noisy days" but i guess that's part of being a parent18:31
Stskeepsyeah.. i have my father visiting these days to meet his grandson, so not a lot of time to code18:31
rcgaye, enjoy the time with the family18:32
rcgeven though coding sure is tempting18:33
zbenjaminwhich scratchbox version do i need for the n9 again?18:42
zbenjaminMer-SB2-armv7hl this one?18:43
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zbenjaminfaenil: ^??18:47
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ZogG_lap1opzbenjamin: there might be weblog on chan so you can see yesterday conversation18:58
ZogG_lap1opand answer is in topic18:58
zbenjamini have a backlog but i don't think we spoke about that18:59
zbenjamini'm there18:59
zbenjaminon Compiling with the SDK18:59
ZogG_lap1opi think he mentioned it yestartday or it was in link he gav19:00
zbenjaminbut i'm getting a error when trying to install the SB2 package19:00
zbenjamin'Mer-SB2-armv7hl' not found in package names. Trying capabilities.19:00
zbenjamini'm missing something19:00
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ZogG_lap1opi'm not help here, sorry :(19:01
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faenilzbenjamin, what are you doing?19:09
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zbenjamini'm trying to get my sdk running19:18
zbenjaminbut installing scratchbox fails19:18
faenildo you want to setup a SB2 target for n9?19:19
faenilzbenjamin, ^19:19
faenilI wrote a guide for you then19:19
faenilfollow everything closely, and you shouldn't have any issue ;)19:20
zbenjaminsudo zypper in -t pattern Mer-SB2-armv7hl fails with error19:21
faenilshow me output of zypper repos -u19:23
faenilalso see if zypper ref works19:23
faenilok, always same issue19:26
faenillbt, will we ever get rid of the meego url error? XD19:26
faenilread my messages at that link ;)19:26
faenilthen do zypper ref and continue my guide19:27
faenilzbenjamin, also do "sudo sdk-version --latest --go"19:27
faenilzbenjamin, and finally, tell me how you got to that point so that we can fix the wiki19:28
zbenjaminfaenil: ^19:30
zbenjaminsomething is broken now :/19:30
zbenjamin/etc/zypp/repos.d/mer-tools.repo: Line 5 is missing '=' sign19:31
zbenjamingot it, missing /etc/hosts entry19:33
zbenjamin   <---  that was the solution19:34
zbenjamini did that on the hosts hosts file ....19:34
faenilif you followed the steps I wrote in the other chat, you should get the same outcome19:34
zbenjaminhow many steps from that chat do i need, i thought replacing the repositories would be enough19:36
faenilzbenjamin, if you did the hosts fix you don't need anything19:37
zbenjaminah i did the hosts fix outside the sdk, thats why it didn't work19:37
faenillol :)19:37
zbenjaminBasic Tasks doesn't mention i need to be in the SDK ... ;)19:38
faenilzbenjamin, show me the line :)19:39
zbenjaminthe echo19:39
zbenjaminecho | sudo tee -a /etc/hosts19:39
faenilzbenjamin, added ;919:41
zbenjaminlooks good ;)19:41
faenilthanks for the feedback :) go on and let me know if you feel something else is missing ;)19:42
zbenjaminnp ;)19:44
faenilwatching movie, try highlighting me, I'll reply if I notice it :)19:46
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aknightfaenil: so QWindow::setOrientationUpdateMask() -> Screen.onOrientationChanged -> QWindow::reportContentOrientationChanged (Window.contentOrientation)20:06
aknightthat's the roundtrip20:06
aknightlisten, observe, report :)20:07
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kaltsifix to oneshot:
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faenilaknight, ahm, that's the reply to which question? :D21:37
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aknight<faenil> aknight, is there a chance nemo only needs setOrientUpdateMask?21:42
aknight<faenil> or do you already know OrientSensor needs to be added?21:42
aknightfaenil: so yes you need an orientationsensor in your compositor (unless this is in colorful-home already - i don' think it is)21:43
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faenilaknight, ok, clear21:46
faenilaknight, I thought it would have been part of lipstick itself21:47
faenilnot colorful home21:47
faenilsince most of the compositor stuff is there21:47
faenilhence I thought jolla already implemented that :D21:47
faenilthough it seems there's only the setter there21:51
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faenilok, I need another class using orientationsensor and calling that setter :)21:57
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faenilQOrientationReading....ahhhh, got to love Qt5 :D22:01
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faenilowww :( "This means this sensor cannot be used to detect if a device is in portrait or landscape mode."22:11
faeniltoo good to be true...22:12
faenilah but maybe I misunderstood it :)22:12
faenilcannot be used to read if the UIis portrait/ladnscape mode, but CAN be used to set the UI portrait/landscape according to device orientation :D22:13
faenilMorpog_PC, oh I'm not alone o/22:13
Morpog_PCyeah, I just replied that you won't feel strange :)22:13
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ZogG_lap1opfaenil: still not sleeping?22:33
faenilnope, working on components repo :)22:34
faeniltesting the mirroring thing we talked about today22:34
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ZogG_lap1ophave a spare minute?22:35
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faenilZogG_lap1op, sure22:39
faenilZogG_lap1op, sorry haven't had time to experiment with that22:41
Anssi|faenil, is network working any better22:42
faenilAnssi|, I'm at gf's atm22:42
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: no problem :) at the end i'll win it22:45
faenilsure you will ;)22:45
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zbenjaminfaenil: still here?22:50
faenilzbenjamin, yes sir22:50
zbenjaminmy connection went down so i still need to initialize sb222:51
zbenjaminmeans i'm here
zbenjaminbut i don't have that n950rootfs folder22:52
zbenjaminwait actually i'm still here
zbenjamini'm here When the process is finished:22:53
zbenjamincd /srv/mer/targets/<PATH_OF_BUILT_IMAGE>    <--- what?22:53
zbenjamini guess that command is issued outside of the SDK right?22:54
faenilzbenjamin, if you followed the steps, you'll have a new folder in that path22:56
zbenjaminnemo-armv7hl-rnd_sb2target  ?22:57
faenilbecause mic create has -o option, which creates the output in that folder22:57
faenilzbenjamin, what would you expect instead of <PATH_OF_BUILT_IMAGE> ?22:57
zbenjamini was just confused, because i was still inside the SDK22:58
zbenjaminthere the path is /parentroot/srv/.....22:58
faenilyeah, let me fix that :)22:59
faenilzbenjamin, is $USER correctly defined at this point, inside the sdk?22:59
zbenjamini check23:00
faenilor should I write to do that outside of the sdk?23:00
faenilI don't remember how I usually do it :D23:00
faenilfixed path, thanks for feedback ;)23:00
zbenjaminsame here
zbenjaminfirst cd23:01
zbenjamincd /srv/mer/targets/n950rootfs23:01
zbenjaminbut then sb2-init23:01
faenilzbenjamin, that makes me think whether that path should be created inside or outside the sdk23:02
faenilit's the same, but just for coherence23:02
faenilzbenjamin, if you remember me of this tomorrow I'll ask some people and see if there's any pro/cons23:03
faenilI have those folders outside the sdk23:03
zbenjaminah ok23:04
zbenjaminso you run sb2-init outside?23:04
faenilyou have to run that inside23:04
faenilyou don't have sb2-init outside I believe23:05
zbenjaminthis command is exactly the same? sb2-init  -L "--sysroot=/" -C "--sysroot=/" -c /usr/bin/qemu-arm-dynamic -m sdk-build -n -N -t / nemo-n950 /opt/cross/bin/armv7hl-meego-linux-gnueabi-gcc23:06
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faenilzbenjamin, I'll trust my past ego, and say yes23:08
faenilnemo-n950 is the target name, you choose that23:09
zbenjaminfaenil: collect2: cannot find 'ld'23:10
ZogG_lap1opgood night23:11
ZogG_lap1opfaenil: i solved it, it was somethng easy and not related to where i looked. now i can sleep23:11
faenilZogG_lap1op, good night ;)23:11
ZogG_lap1opthanks for trusting in me23:11
faenilahha :)23:11
faenilzbenjamin, mm23:11
zbenjaminbut doesn't seem to be a error... at least $? is 023:11
faenilah, ok23:11
faenilmight be ok then23:12
zbenjaminmpf, next command -> error ;)23:12
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faenilzbenjamin, my past ego seems to say that collect is ok...23:14
faenilI was talking about another issue in the next messages that day23:14
faenilzbenjamin, what's the next command error anyway?23:14
zbenjamindo i need /etc/boardname?23:14
zbenjaminsb2 -t nemo-n950 -m sdk-install -R ssu ur23:15
zbenjaminDBus call failed, falling back to libssu23:15
zbenjaminUnable to open /etc/boardname.23:15
zbenjaminUnable to open /etc/boardname.23:15
zbenjaminUnable to open /etc/boardname.23:15
faenilthat can be ignored23:15
zbenjaminthats why ;)23:15
faenilthose are errors coming from the fact that you're not on real device, I guess23:15
faenilso, go on ;)23:16
zbenjaminnext one ;)23:17
faenilzbenjamin, ah, that was a packaging issue which had been fixed, iirc23:18
faenilyou see, it requires qt5-qtqtdeclarative, instead of qt5-qtdeclarative23:18
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zbenjaminand i fix that how? ;)23:19
faenilzbenjamin, did zypper ref finish correctly?23:20
zbenjaminthat was ref23:21
zbenjaminah no sorry23:21
zbenjaminyes it did23:21
zbenjaminAll repositories have been refreshed.23:21
faenilI'd say go for solution 2, since you have qt5-qtdeclarative anyway ;)23:22
zbenjaminis it ok that a gazillion packages are getting downgraded?23:23
faenilI believe so23:23
faenilit's like version format change which causes that, or something like that23:24
faenilso it believes they're downgrades but they're not23:25
faenil(unless something is wrong with your repo configs of course :) )23:25
faenilanyway, gtg...let it update and follow the guide, I'll help you tomorrow if you get stuck again ;)23:25
zbenjaminok thank you23:25
faenilnp, hope you don't get any other problem :D23:26
zbenjaminme 2 ;)23:27
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