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| iekku | morning | 05:18 |
|---|---|---|
| dm8tbr | moaning | 05:18 |
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| Sage | morning | 07:42 |
| dcthang | morning | 07:44 |
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| rcg1 | morning | 07:51 |
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| tadzik | morning | 08:50 |
| Stskeeps | morn o/ | 08:50 |
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| rcg1 | Stskeeps: alright, you got me convinced, osc is a great tool :) | 09:21 |
| Stskeeps | good ;) | 09:21 |
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| Sage | Stskeeps: nemo syn in 10mins right? | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 09:49 |
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| iekku | hmmm, trying to verify bug 69 | 10:05 |
| iekku | https://bugs.nemomobile.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69 | 10:05 |
| iekku | but to me the description doesn't tell so much | 10:05 |
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| dcthang | it looks like a new package than a bug | 10:57 |
| dcthang | but perigrine doesn't have video | 10:58 |
| dcthang | it comes from the lack of codec or something of Mer I guess | 10:59 |
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| the-boss | phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#4889 waiting for review at https://build.pub.meego.com//request/show/4889 | 12:54 |
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| iekku | hmmm i'm retesting Bug 122 - Items should have a context menu for easy use | 13:07 |
| iekku | context sensitive menu allows only to delete or view detail | 13:08 |
| iekku | s | 13:08 |
| iekku | wondering if i should reopen this or file a new bug for 'move' and 'copy' | 13:08 |
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| Sage | iekku: I think there is bugs for those as well already | 13:12 |
| iekku | Sage, you are right | 13:20 |
| iekku | verifying the 122 and adding comment about 123 :) | 13:21 |
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| iekku | couldn't retest these: https://bugs.nemomobile.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=RELEASED&product=Applications&product=Hardware%20adaptation&product=Middleware&product=MTF%20UX | 13:30 |
| iekku | 112 isn't yet available, but if someone have free time and devices, please retest 10 and 105 | 13:30 |
| Sage | iekku: it isn't? | 13:34 |
| Sage | iekku: should be | 13:34 |
| iekku | oh | 13:35 |
| iekku | i only read your comment about pending... | 13:35 |
| iekku | it's there and working | 13:36 |
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| Sage | sry :) | 13:42 |
| iekku | hmmm, i think i will take a walk now | 13:51 |
| iekku | nice weather and haven't been feeling sick today | 13:52 |
| iekku | good time to leave home, in the front of the strees is discgolfpark's opening starting | 13:52 |
| iekku | i might get annoyed... | 13:52 |
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| rcg1 | bbl | 17:19 |
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| rcg1 | re | 17:57 |
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| Atarii | installing Nemo on my N900 for the first time, be prepared for a bombard of questions... | 19:51 |
| tadzik | have an appropriate amount of fun :) | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | alright, dont be surprised noone answers though, late evening for many who's in the know :) | 19:52 |
| Atarii | sure thing, thanks :) | 19:52 |
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| iekku | Atarii, if you follow the introduction and have correct type of sd you shouldn't face any problems | 19:57 |
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| rzr | Stskeeps, http://www.storyofstuff.com i guess you know about that video ? | 20:18 |
| rzr | Stskeeps, donno what is your upcoming article but that one could be linked :) | 20:19 |
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| rzs19 | well, atm i'm using maemo and i'm happy, couse i have a real linux distribution on my smartphone. so will mer, nemo, or how you guys call it, use only html5 and js, or will there be support for native x11 applications? | 20:36 |
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| rzs19 | becouse there is already tizen, boot to gecko, webos(i think is also html5 and js?). | 20:38 |
| wmarone | mer supports Qt, but support for html5/js applications is highly likely via Qt | 20:40 |
| wmarone | whether it matters for nemo depends on their being devices that can run it | 20:41 |
| wmarone | there* | 20:41 |
| rcg1 | btw, what is the bluetooth status of nemo/mer for n950/n9? | 20:41 |
| rzs19 | what if i'm a power user and want to start another Xorg, in maemo i had some problem with that. html and js application are slower than native apps. | 20:41 |
| wmarone | start another Xorg? | 20:42 |
| wmarone | what you can do with Mer, on a device that is running it, depends on what the device vendor has put in place in terms of user-exposed capabilites | 20:42 |
| wmarone | capabilities* | 20:42 |
| rcg1 | are "just" some adaptations missing or is it a major endeavor? | 20:43 |
| rzs19 | something like: Xorg -query 192.168.19.31 and sitting on my couce connected to my XDMCP Server. | 20:43 |
| wmarone | and yes they're slower than native apps, that's why I don't care | 20:43 |
| wmarone | rcg1: explain? | 20:43 |
| rcg1 | wmarone: on n950 bluetooth does not seem to work | 20:44 |
| wmarone | ah, I don't know about bluetooth on the N950 | 20:44 |
| rcg1 | wmarone: ic, and n9? | 20:44 |
| rzs19 | i'm hopping for somthing that is not based upon html5/js, becouse its slow and i need my cpu and ram for more :) | 20:44 |
| wmarone | rcg1: nor that, I experiment with Mer on a handful of devices, mostly x86 | 20:45 |
| rcg1 | dunno actually how similar n9 and n950 are hw-wise | 20:45 |
| rcg1 | wmarone: ah ic :) | 20:45 |
| rzs19 | do you have tried t odevelop a layoutmanager, or h-split/v-split in js for html? its anything than performant if you create complex application. | 20:45 |
| wmarone | rzs19: right, which is why, as I said, I'm not interested in html5 development | 20:45 |
| wmarone | heh | 20:45 |
| wmarone | if I do anything with Tizen, for instance, it'll be via EFL if possible | 20:46 |
| rzs19 | so i can write native qt, or gtk applications for "mer" ? | 20:46 |
| rzs19 | i want to to see the direction, what will be used. | 20:47 |
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| wmarone | rzs19: well, a vendor can adopt Mer and use whatever they want | 21:09 |
| wmarone | what's exposed to you depends on what they do | 21:09 |
| wmarone | Qt is included by default | 21:09 |
| rcg1 | rzs19: afaik gtk is not included by default | 21:10 |
| rcg1 | imho qt, in general, provides the more promising long-time perspective | 21:11 |
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| rcg1 | rzs19: btw, what do you mean with "native"? | 21:12 |
| rcg1 | "native" like in, close to the hw, os using c/c++, or native like only using a single toolkit qt vs. gtk? | 21:13 |
| rzs19 | i want to be able to choose my language and my toolkit on my own, or optional: i don'twnat to be foreced to use html5 and js ;) | 21:15 |
| rzs19 | native like c/c++ :) | 21:15 |
| wmarone | rzs19: a vendor could force use of html5/js | 21:16 |
| rzs19 | like in tizen and that is what i don't want. | 21:17 |
| wmarone | well | 21:17 |
| wmarone | there's nothing saying you can't do Tizen development with EFL/C, but they aren't emphasizing it | 21:17 |
| rcg1 | rzs19: i'd go with qt.. you got pretty nice high level language for ui stuff but can also hack in c/c++ any way you like | 21:18 |
| Atarii | nemo was amazingly easy to install on my N900! Thanks to all involved :D | 21:18 |
| rcg1 | but thats just my opinion :) | 21:18 |
| rzs19 | rcg1: i like qt :) | 21:18 |
| rcg1 | so do i :) | 21:18 |
| rzs19 | i just have fear that every os for smartphones will use html5 and js. i like html5 and js, i'm a js framework dev, but i don't want it on my phone. | 21:19 |
| rcg1 | personally i found the gobject system always a littlebit awkward and complicated to use | 21:19 |
| rcg1 | rzs19: i understand your concerns.. well, unfortunately my experience told me that there will always a break in apis etc... | 21:20 |
| rcg1 | only platforms with halfway consistent apis are ios and android | 21:20 |
| rcg1 | when it comes to all the maemo/meego based stuff it seems like their hobby is to annoy developers by regularly changing apis | 21:21 |
| rzs19 | i'm not a java fan and i also don't lie the multitasking expirience in android. | 21:21 |
| rcg1 | thats what i hope is different here with nemo/mer.. | 21:21 |
| wmarone | rcg1: it's kinda hard to claim that, really | 21:21 |
| rzs19 | maemo was really cool, okay needs a little bit too much ram. | 21:22 |
| rcg1 | wmarone: claim what? made quite some claims in the last lines ;) | 21:22 |
| wmarone | that the apis are regularly changing | 21:22 |
| wmarone | Qt is very stable | 21:22 |
| wmarone | and maemo/meego aren't really relevant anymore | 21:22 |
| rzs19 | and i don't get it, why swapiness is set to 100? becouse they swap on flash... | 21:23 |
| rcg1 | well... maemo 5: gtk then switched to qt, harmattan suddenly no qt widget support but rather qml.. if you wanna go tizen you need to change to html5+js | 21:23 |
| rcg1 | wmarone: ^ | 21:23 |
| rcg1 | wmarone: yeah, thats what i hope of qt will be :) | 21:23 |
| wmarone | and none of those platforms are *truly* related | 21:23 |
| rzs19 | so i search something after maemo, meego, with Xorg | 21:24 |
| rzs19 | porting apps to it is easier than to android | 21:24 |
| rcg1 | wmarone: it's just from my past experience writing code for fremantle and harmattan | 21:24 |
| rcg1 | i do now they are niche products | 21:24 |
| rcg1 | an maybe the continous switch in apis is one reason for this | 21:25 |
| rzs19 | andy skype integration in maemo was nearly perfect :) | 21:25 |
| wmarone | maemo held consistently to Gtk until Harmattan | 21:25 |
| rzs19 | i will buy another n900 to test other "distributions" and for playing around | 21:25 |
| wmarone | but they realized that it has deficiencies that kept it from delivering a truly good experience | 21:25 |
| rcg1 | wmarone: sure your right.. but there was some time when qt was heavily promoted | 21:26 |
| wmarone | that and they own Qt, so it only made sense to actually -use- it | 21:26 |
| rcg1 | so i jumped on that train as well ;) | 21:26 |
| rzs19 | i couldn't udnerstand, why meamo was not dominating. | 21:26 |
| rcg1 | wmarone: sure, and qt is imho much better than gtk | 21:26 |
| wmarone | rzs19: because nokia did not have the corporate ability to make it into what it needed to be until way too late | 21:27 |
| rcg1 | but then the decision to drop qt widget based ui support for harmattan was a little unfortunate | 21:27 |
| rzs19 | wmarone: what was missing | 21:27 |
| wmarone | lots | 21:27 |
| rcg1 | i mean you can run qt applications on harmattan but they rather look like desktop apps | 21:27 |
| wmarone | the ability to push the Symbian crowd out of the way | 21:27 |
| rzs19 | wmarone: take a look at android its more like a bad joke... | 21:27 |
| wmarone | rzs19: I know, I don't really hold any interest in Android | 21:28 |
| rzs19 | wmarone: maemo, task switching was easy and nice, with the thumbnail preview. the ui is easy to use, its fast. | 21:29 |
| wmarone | yes | 21:30 |
| wmarone | it has a nice UI | 21:30 |
| wmarone | UI has nothing to do with the toolkit | 21:30 |
| rzs19 | its based upon debian, so you could theoretical use any toolkit. they switched to QT, don't udnerstand why they let it die... | 21:31 |
| wmarone | let what die? | 21:32 |
| rcg1 | i think he refers to maemo? | 21:33 |
| rzs19 | i mean maemo and meego | 21:33 |
| rcg1 | in fact its not as dead as it might seem | 21:33 |
| rcg1 | i mean, that's why we are here in the channel? | 21:33 |
| rzs19 | :) | 21:33 |
| wmarone | perhaps you missed that their CEO is an ex-Microsoftie and they're now shipping Windows devices? | 21:34 |
| rcg1 | because we have a interest in fully open source mobile platforms? :) | 21:34 |
| rzs19 | soo and now i need to code a little bit, thx for the nice talk. | 21:34 |
| wmarone | nemomobile is based off Mer, which has no Nokia association | 21:34 |
| rcg1 | rzs19: have fun :) | 21:34 |
| rzs19 | i need to read more about mer, nemomobile. | 21:34 |
| rcg1 | me too | 21:35 |
| rzs19 | rcg1: there is no fun with js, it only needs to be done :P | 21:35 |
| rcg1 | but there are only so many hours in a day ;) | 21:35 |
| rcg1 | lol | 21:35 |
| rcg1 | alright | 21:35 |
| rcg1 | rzs19: then get it done quickly ;) | 21:35 |
| rzs19 | i will do my best. | 21:35 |
| rcg1 | wmarone: but i think there are also many good things that originated from nokia, e.g., putting qt under lgpl was pretty good | 21:36 |
| wmarone | sure | 21:36 |
| rcg1 | before it had that somewhat crude trolltech license iirc | 21:36 |
| wmarone | well, it was either the commercial license or GPLv2 | 21:36 |
| rcg1 | you're righz | 21:39 |
| rcg1 | *right | 21:39 |
| rcg1 | even | 21:39 |
| rcg1 | btw are there any closed source bits left for running nemo/mer or is everything including bootloader, flasher and the like open source? | 21:44 |
| wmarone | gpu drivers, wifi firmware | 21:44 |
| rcg1 | gpu? | 21:44 |
| wmarone | yeah, the powervr gpu in the SoC | 21:44 |
| rcg1 | i though i read somewhere Stskeeps did very much of the gpu driver porting? | 21:44 |
| rcg1 | *thought | 21:44 |
| wmarone | that just makes it work on the newer kernel | 21:45 |
| rcg1 | oh ic | 21:45 |
| wmarone | there's still a userspace blob | 21:45 |
| rcg1 | ah well, that's most likely the same as with most linux stuff vs gpu vendors | 21:49 |
| wmarone | it is | 21:50 |
| wmarone | albeit harder as most SoC GPU vendors are much less willing to listen to end-users than Nvidia/ATI | 21:50 |
| rcg1 | iirc only intel has completely open sourced its drivers, right? | 21:50 |
| wmarone | err AMD | 21:50 |
| wmarone | correct | 21:50 |
| rcg1 | aye ic | 21:51 |
| rcg1 | maybe this is a point in which mobile open source projects can benefit from the intels alliance with samsung in tizen | 21:52 |
| rcg1 | *. | 21:52 |
| rcg1 | err | 21:52 |
| wmarone | maybe | 21:52 |
| wmarone | certainly moreso than with Android, seeing as how Tizen pulls from other, existing open source projects | 21:53 |
| rcg1 | hehe ic.. well, certainly interesting times we are living in :) | 21:55 |
| rcg1 | alright.. gtg, got an important presentation tomorrow.. | 22:15 |
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| pruzel | unless I'm reading it wrong, omapdrm is avaible for omap2+ devices, meaning n900. https://github.com/robclark/kernel-omap4/commit/c972836483d9424c674ada9a483a9a9e402ad838 I wonder If someone feels like trying? I'm nogood, my kernels won't boot without even touching omapdrm. | 22:27 |
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