Saturday, 2017-04-29

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locusfmer runs on top of halium10:41
locusfasw the name suggests its just the hal10:41
kimmolialtough it and the process reminds me about this https://youtu.be/5dSGreUGGbc?t=14m15s10:55
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locusf:D11:37
r0kk3rzim not convinced its going to be meaningfully different to the mer-hybris repo, maybe with a bit more infra and a different HADK12:01
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r0kk3rzwith a bit of organising and documentation work, mer could beat halium to the punch12:16
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locusfr0kk3rz: exactly12:22
locusfmostly its just a ubuntu version of mer-hybris for first proto12:22
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locusfto some degree at least12:22
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r0kk3rzyeah, the main piece thats lacking is documentation on how to roll your own rootfs onto the HADK output12:23
locusfindeed, though thats straightforward once you know that the ramdisk is mainly part of the init12:25
locusfbut thats not immeaditely obvious12:25
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Son_GokuI'm not even sure Halium is going anywhere12:28
Son_Gokuit seems oddly focused on Ubuntu Touch12:28
r0kk3rzlocusf: yeah its certainly doable, but afaik its not really documented anywhere which bits you need / dont need .etc12:29
LarstiQSon_Goku: afaiui, that is where it originated, and then trying to go broader12:31
Son_Gokuwhat I don't get is why not just join Mer and expand Mer's scope?12:32
Son_GokuI don't see why Ubuntu Touch stuff couldn't run on Mer12:32
LarstiQdidn't we cover this during the community meeting?12:33
locusfyes12:34
Son_GokuI wasn't here for that, so I don't even know what you're talking about...12:39
LarstiQSon_Goku: sorry, bit preoccupied12:41
LarstiQbut there was a Mer community meeting where the Halium people presented their case12:41
r0kk3rzbut yeah, this guy rolled his own process just so he can run arch + plasma-mobile12:51
r0kk3rzhttps://github.com/mickybart/gnulinux_support/blob/master/Docs/main.md12:51
r0kk3rzhe used a lot of mer stuff, so clearly he knew about it12:51
LarstiQ"We share some common base between mer-hybris (SailfishOS) and Ubuntu Touch but the architecture and integration are not the same. "12:57
LarstiQr0kk3rz: right12:57
locusfmickybart is also there :)13:06
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rada_if mickybart and his Arch linux plans were not there, my interest would be less.13:36
rada_On void linux irc the question arose why not expand mer, too ...13:37
rada_I will ask mickybart about why not expanding or generalizing mer?13:37
Son_GokuI suppose the main conflict might be Jolla14:04
Son_Gokuas opposed to the Fedora/RH model where Sailfish is downstream from Mer and Mer can independently move forward, Mer is tightly bound to Sailfish in many respects14:05
Son_Gokudespite most of Sailfish being closed sources14:05
LarstiQ'most'?14:06
Son_GokuLarstiQ: SailfishOS is Sailfish + Mer, ne?14:06
Son_GokuSailfish being the Jolla components14:06
LarstiQhmmm, I'd say Mer is mostly included in Sailfish14:07
LarstiQSon_Goku: so rather, if an independent Mer becomes too disruptive to Sailfish it no longer pays being "downstream" and our effort likely close to our instance14:08
LarstiQthis is a bit theoretical14:08
LarstiQbut having limited resources is real14:08
Son_Gokuyeah14:08
Son_Gokuthe main thing I'm think of is what happens when Mer wants to upgrade Qt 5?14:08
Son_Gokuor replace the dependency resolver for packages (zypper)?14:09
Son_Gokuor something similarly disruptive14:09
r0kk3rzthe mer-hybris stuff is lower down than that though14:10
r0kk3rzfor sure the main packages of Mer is closly bound to what jolla wants for sailfishos14:10
Son_Gokuand these are the same packages that things like Ubuntu Touch, Liri OS, etc. depend on14:11
Son_Gokuof course, Jolla is no Red Hat14:11
LarstiQSon_Goku: at the moment most of the work on Mer is being done by Jolla employees14:12
Son_Gokuthat's what I figured14:12
Son_Gokuthe thing I'm trying to figure out is how does Mer plan to grow as a community14:12
LarstiQright14:13
Son_Gokuthe problem with Tizen is that it's so tightly bound to Samsung that it's just impossible for other people to really get involved14:13
Son_Gokusomeone told me about Mer saying that it was supposed to be an actual community project14:13
Son_Gokubut I'm not sure how it is (at the moment)14:13
Son_GokuI know it aspires to be, and I'm not saying that is a bad thing at all14:13
LarstiQI don't know Tizen, but we do have non-Jolla people contributing14:13
LarstiQor more precisely, community members14:14
Son_Gokuwell, I'm certainly going to try as I'm taking a crack at the rpm package :P14:14
LarstiQSon_Goku: so the main thing imo is to insulate Jolla from risk (like upgrading gcc/rpm/zypper and breaking everything), and obs can do that reasonably well in feature projects14:15
Son_Gokuright14:15
LarstiQthen when something big is ready, we can watershed14:15
Son_Gokuforklift :D14:15
Son_Gokuhonestly, zypper is the most painful bit14:15
LarstiQis that a term? :)14:15
LarstiQit's evocative14:15
Son_Gokuthe rpm + boost + C++ thing is horrific14:15
Son_GokuLarstiQ: the term I've heard is "forklift upgrades"14:16
Son_Gokuwhere you do everything at once and endure all the pain in one go14:16
Son_Gokurather than incrementally14:16
LarstiQSon_Goku: cool, I'll look that up14:16
Son_Gokuhttp://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/definition/forklift-upgrade14:16
Son_Gokuit has negative connotations for staid, useless, IT people14:17
Son_Gokubut they can be fun for everyone else :P14:17
Son_Gokubetter definition: http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/F/forklift_upgrade.html14:17
Son_Gokumainframe era term, where you literally lifted things with forklifts because computers were huge and heavy14:18
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rada_So Jolla prevents Mer + Halium joining efforts? That then is validating Halium's existence.14:33
LarstiQrada_: how do you read that in it?14:34
rada_becaese you said "the main conflict wwill be Jolla"?14:36
Son_Gokurada_: he didn't say any of that14:36
Son_GokuJolla is not necessarily in conflict14:37
Son_Gokuthe issue is that if Jolla is the only major contributor base, Mer is necessarily driven by Jolla14:37
Son_Gokubut if other people join, Mer can diversify14:37
Son_Gokuas far as I understand it, it has ALWAYS been the goal of Mer to diversify14:37
Son_GokuLarstiQ: right?14:37
LarstiQSon_Goku: historically, yeah14:38
Son_Gokuthe merproject homepage needs to be updated, though14:38
LarstiQas far as I understand it, I wasn't present for the earlier times14:38
Son_Gokusome of the links are dead: http://merproject.org/14:38
rada_ok thx. no offense meant14:40
Son_Gokurada_: if the people from Halium want to join Mer, that would allow for Mer to diversify14:45
Son_Gokuthere's no reason that Mer couldn't be the foundation for a larger community of mobile-focused Linux distros14:46
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r0kk3rzSon_Goku: it could, but people like luneos and plasma-mobile arent using it15:23
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Son_Gokur0kk3rz: why aren't they?15:59
r0kk3rzits a good question16:02
r0kk3rzcan you include another project in obs? like say someone else has a largeish project and you want to build upon it16:27
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r0kk3rzbut copying it seems wasteful16:27
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locusfadd it as repository16:28
r0kk3rzah, is that how you do16:30
LarstiQr0kk3rz: if you only want to resolve binary deps, add it as a repository16:31
LarstiQr0kk3rz: if you want to test effects of a changed package, link it16:31
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