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| locusf | mer runs on top of halium | 10:41 |
|---|---|---|
| locusf | asw the name suggests its just the hal | 10:41 |
| kimmoli | altough it and the process reminds me about this https://youtu.be/5dSGreUGGbc?t=14m15s | 10:55 |
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| locusf | :D | 11:37 |
| r0kk3rz | im not convinced its going to be meaningfully different to the mer-hybris repo, maybe with a bit more infra and a different HADK | 12:01 |
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| r0kk3rz | with a bit of organising and documentation work, mer could beat halium to the punch | 12:16 |
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| locusf | r0kk3rz: exactly | 12:22 |
| locusf | mostly its just a ubuntu version of mer-hybris for first proto | 12:22 |
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| locusf | to some degree at least | 12:22 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah, the main piece thats lacking is documentation on how to roll your own rootfs onto the HADK output | 12:23 |
| locusf | indeed, though thats straightforward once you know that the ramdisk is mainly part of the init | 12:25 |
| locusf | but thats not immeaditely obvious | 12:25 |
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| Son_Goku | I'm not even sure Halium is going anywhere | 12:28 |
| Son_Goku | it seems oddly focused on Ubuntu Touch | 12:28 |
| r0kk3rz | locusf: yeah its certainly doable, but afaik its not really documented anywhere which bits you need / dont need .etc | 12:29 |
| LarstiQ | Son_Goku: afaiui, that is where it originated, and then trying to go broader | 12:31 |
| Son_Goku | what I don't get is why not just join Mer and expand Mer's scope? | 12:32 |
| Son_Goku | I don't see why Ubuntu Touch stuff couldn't run on Mer | 12:32 |
| LarstiQ | didn't we cover this during the community meeting? | 12:33 |
| locusf | yes | 12:34 |
| Son_Goku | I wasn't here for that, so I don't even know what you're talking about... | 12:39 |
| LarstiQ | Son_Goku: sorry, bit preoccupied | 12:41 |
| LarstiQ | but there was a Mer community meeting where the Halium people presented their case | 12:41 |
| r0kk3rz | but yeah, this guy rolled his own process just so he can run arch + plasma-mobile | 12:51 |
| r0kk3rz | https://github.com/mickybart/gnulinux_support/blob/master/Docs/main.md | 12:51 |
| r0kk3rz | he used a lot of mer stuff, so clearly he knew about it | 12:51 |
| LarstiQ | "We share some common base between mer-hybris (SailfishOS) and Ubuntu Touch but the architecture and integration are not the same. " | 12:57 |
| LarstiQ | r0kk3rz: right | 12:57 |
| locusf | mickybart is also there :) | 13:06 |
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| rada_ | if mickybart and his Arch linux plans were not there, my interest would be less. | 13:36 |
| rada_ | On void linux irc the question arose why not expand mer, too ... | 13:37 |
| rada_ | I will ask mickybart about why not expanding or generalizing mer? | 13:37 |
| Son_Goku | I suppose the main conflict might be Jolla | 14:04 |
| Son_Goku | as opposed to the Fedora/RH model where Sailfish is downstream from Mer and Mer can independently move forward, Mer is tightly bound to Sailfish in many respects | 14:05 |
| Son_Goku | despite most of Sailfish being closed sources | 14:05 |
| LarstiQ | 'most'? | 14:06 |
| Son_Goku | LarstiQ: SailfishOS is Sailfish + Mer, ne? | 14:06 |
| Son_Goku | Sailfish being the Jolla components | 14:06 |
| LarstiQ | hmmm, I'd say Mer is mostly included in Sailfish | 14:07 |
| LarstiQ | Son_Goku: so rather, if an independent Mer becomes too disruptive to Sailfish it no longer pays being "downstream" and our effort likely close to our instance | 14:08 |
| LarstiQ | this is a bit theoretical | 14:08 |
| LarstiQ | but having limited resources is real | 14:08 |
| Son_Goku | yeah | 14:08 |
| Son_Goku | the main thing I'm think of is what happens when Mer wants to upgrade Qt 5? | 14:08 |
| Son_Goku | or replace the dependency resolver for packages (zypper)? | 14:09 |
| Son_Goku | or something similarly disruptive | 14:09 |
| r0kk3rz | the mer-hybris stuff is lower down than that though | 14:10 |
| r0kk3rz | for sure the main packages of Mer is closly bound to what jolla wants for sailfishos | 14:10 |
| Son_Goku | and these are the same packages that things like Ubuntu Touch, Liri OS, etc. depend on | 14:11 |
| Son_Goku | of course, Jolla is no Red Hat | 14:11 |
| LarstiQ | Son_Goku: at the moment most of the work on Mer is being done by Jolla employees | 14:12 |
| Son_Goku | that's what I figured | 14:12 |
| Son_Goku | the thing I'm trying to figure out is how does Mer plan to grow as a community | 14:12 |
| LarstiQ | right | 14:13 |
| Son_Goku | the problem with Tizen is that it's so tightly bound to Samsung that it's just impossible for other people to really get involved | 14:13 |
| Son_Goku | someone told me about Mer saying that it was supposed to be an actual community project | 14:13 |
| Son_Goku | but I'm not sure how it is (at the moment) | 14:13 |
| Son_Goku | I know it aspires to be, and I'm not saying that is a bad thing at all | 14:13 |
| LarstiQ | I don't know Tizen, but we do have non-Jolla people contributing | 14:13 |
| LarstiQ | or more precisely, community members | 14:14 |
| Son_Goku | well, I'm certainly going to try as I'm taking a crack at the rpm package :P | 14:14 |
| LarstiQ | Son_Goku: so the main thing imo is to insulate Jolla from risk (like upgrading gcc/rpm/zypper and breaking everything), and obs can do that reasonably well in feature projects | 14:15 |
| Son_Goku | right | 14:15 |
| LarstiQ | then when something big is ready, we can watershed | 14:15 |
| Son_Goku | forklift :D | 14:15 |
| Son_Goku | honestly, zypper is the most painful bit | 14:15 |
| LarstiQ | is that a term? :) | 14:15 |
| LarstiQ | it's evocative | 14:15 |
| Son_Goku | the rpm + boost + C++ thing is horrific | 14:15 |
| Son_Goku | LarstiQ: the term I've heard is "forklift upgrades" | 14:16 |
| Son_Goku | where you do everything at once and endure all the pain in one go | 14:16 |
| Son_Goku | rather than incrementally | 14:16 |
| LarstiQ | Son_Goku: cool, I'll look that up | 14:16 |
| Son_Goku | http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/definition/forklift-upgrade | 14:16 |
| Son_Goku | it has negative connotations for staid, useless, IT people | 14:17 |
| Son_Goku | but they can be fun for everyone else :P | 14:17 |
| Son_Goku | better definition: http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/F/forklift_upgrade.html | 14:17 |
| Son_Goku | mainframe era term, where you literally lifted things with forklifts because computers were huge and heavy | 14:18 |
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| rada_ | So Jolla prevents Mer + Halium joining efforts? That then is validating Halium's existence. | 14:33 |
| LarstiQ | rada_: how do you read that in it? | 14:34 |
| rada_ | becaese you said "the main conflict wwill be Jolla"? | 14:36 |
| Son_Goku | rada_: he didn't say any of that | 14:36 |
| Son_Goku | Jolla is not necessarily in conflict | 14:37 |
| Son_Goku | the issue is that if Jolla is the only major contributor base, Mer is necessarily driven by Jolla | 14:37 |
| Son_Goku | but if other people join, Mer can diversify | 14:37 |
| Son_Goku | as far as I understand it, it has ALWAYS been the goal of Mer to diversify | 14:37 |
| Son_Goku | LarstiQ: right? | 14:37 |
| LarstiQ | Son_Goku: historically, yeah | 14:38 |
| Son_Goku | the merproject homepage needs to be updated, though | 14:38 |
| LarstiQ | as far as I understand it, I wasn't present for the earlier times | 14:38 |
| Son_Goku | some of the links are dead: http://merproject.org/ | 14:38 |
| rada_ | ok thx. no offense meant | 14:40 |
| Son_Goku | rada_: if the people from Halium want to join Mer, that would allow for Mer to diversify | 14:45 |
| Son_Goku | there's no reason that Mer couldn't be the foundation for a larger community of mobile-focused Linux distros | 14:46 |
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| r0kk3rz | Son_Goku: it could, but people like luneos and plasma-mobile arent using it | 15:23 |
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| Son_Goku | r0kk3rz: why aren't they? | 15:59 |
| r0kk3rz | its a good question | 16:02 |
| r0kk3rz | can you include another project in obs? like say someone else has a largeish project and you want to build upon it | 16:27 |
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| r0kk3rz | but copying it seems wasteful | 16:27 |
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| locusf | add it as repository | 16:28 |
| r0kk3rz | ah, is that how you do | 16:30 |
| LarstiQ | r0kk3rz: if you only want to resolve binary deps, add it as a repository | 16:31 |
| LarstiQ | r0kk3rz: if you want to test effects of a changed package, link it | 16:31 |
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