Thursday, 2016-05-12

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tortoisedocchriadam : ping05:23
chriadampong05:24
tortoisedocah!05:24
tortoisedocchriadam : you have gotten your hands dirty with qtwayland?05:25
chriadamnot really.  if you have specific questions, ask giucam in #qt-graphics05:25
tortoisedocargh05:25
tortoisedocgiucam is not @ jolla anymore afaik?05:25
chriadamno, he's at kdab now05:25
tortoisedocdoes he still mantain the qt-wayland?05:25
tortoisedoc(for mer i mean)05:26
chriadamtortoisedoc: no, I presume that sletta or denexter do that now05:26
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chriadamcan contact those in #qt-labs channels I guess05:26
tortoisedocthanks chriadam!05:27
chriadamnp05:27
chriadamin general #qt-graphics is the right channel for those discussions anyway05:27
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tortoisedocsletta : it appears to have something to do with input event types06:09
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tortoisedocchriadam : denexter hangs out on qt-graphics as well?06:33
chriadammaybe not, he's on #qt-quick though06:33
chriadambut he's in a meeting right now06:34
chriadamtry him in 30 min06:34
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slettatortoisedoc: So basically, something is stealing touch input? I wonder if it is related to the touch compression we're performing in lipstick..06:52
tortoisedocsletta : huh touch compression? something introduced recently?06:52
w00tno, quite a long time ago06:52
tortoisedocw00t : ok this seems compatible with the issue06:53
tortoisedocw00t, sletta : the funny thing is it happens ONLY if the phone is kept locked right after boot for about more than 30 seconds06:53
tortoisedocif you unlock it, it wont show06:53
tortoisedocso something (compositor?) might be resetting something in that time frame which causes the bug06:54
tortoisedocI have not tested STARTING the app late enough tho06:54
tortoisedocsletta, w00t : what is this touch compression magik you talk about anyways?06:55
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slettatortoisedoc: We're compressing 2-3 touche samples per frame down to 1 per frame07:07
slettatouch :)07:07
tortoisedocsletta : aha; is there a way to disable that feature? ie env var?07:07
tortoisedocsletta : can you pinpoint the code in lipstick or is it jolla-lipstick?07:07
slettaI don't remember which one, lemme check07:08
tortoisedocsletta : also, keep in mind that this happens only when test app is started on boot and phone is not unlocked within 30 seconds07:08
tortoisedoci'd say if it's the input compression (which i assume is always on) it would happen always?07:08
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slettayeah, most likely, unless there is some state that is initially wrong, but which gets corrected. Related to this timeout you are experiencing..07:09
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slettatortoisedoc: LIPSTICK_NO_TOUCH_INTERCEPTION=1 should disable the magic in lipstick. It is in lipstickcompositorwindow.cpp in lipstick.git07:11
tortoisedocthanks!07:11
slettaQML_NO_TOUCH_COMPRESSION=1 for the client side07:12
tortoisedocsletta : I'll need to try it out on the testinput asap07:12
tortoisedocsletta : what is the rational behind the input compression?07:12
tortoisedocspeed?07:12
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slettatortoisedoc: processing touch multiple times per frame is wasteful, yes07:22
w00tit's a common thing to have processing done in response to interaction, and soemtimes that processing is quite heavy07:22
w00tif you do it multiple times per frame, then that in turn means there's less time to render fluidly07:22
tortoisedocw00t, sletta : ok but I'd imagine the input state gets used for rendering only once? or does every state change trigger a re-render?07:23
tortoisedoccause that's expensive :P07:23
slettainput events typically result in some ui updates, so they also trigger rendering07:24
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slettasay that delivering the touch event and doing something with it takes 0.5ms07:25
tortoisedochuh07:25
slettaThat is followed up by rendering, which takes X ms of time07:25
tortoisedocsletta : is that qt design or lipstick? cause it's unusual07:26
slettaIf we delivered all the sampled touch events, say 3, we'd be wasting 1ms just delivering touch events07:26
tortoisedocusually input is updated only once per frame; then frame is rendered07:26
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tortoisedocrinse and repea07:27
tortoisedocs/repea/repeat07:27
tortoisedoclike in games07:27
slettayes, and that is exactly what the touch compression does07:27
tortoisedocvery smooth07:27
tortoisedocyes but07:27
tortoisedocwhy do you need to have input compression in the first place?07:27
slettait collects touch events, and delivers the last one, just before the frame is dropped07:27
w00tbecause the operating system doesn't do it for you07:27
slettabecause the hardware samples at something other than 60 fps. For the jolla it is ~120-130Hz07:27
w00tthe kernel driver may be delivering samples much faster than the screen's refresh rate07:28
slettaOn OSX and windows, the OS will do compression for you. On X11, Qt does it for you07:28
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slettaOn Sailfish lipstick/Qt does it for y ou07:28
tortoisedocokay, so basically qt does not do it for you07:29
slettaQml does it by default (based on that environment variable)07:29
tortoisedocmakes sense, as it does not know about frequencies of rendering / sampling07:29
tortoisedocso how it works in games (where most of my experience comes from), is that input is represented with an array of bytes for the state07:31
tortoisedocright at the start of the rendering, this array is sampled and used for rendering07:32
tortoisedocso there is no "compression" per se07:32
tortoisedoc(as in explicit compression"07:32
tortoisedoc)07:32
slettaEither they do what we do, which is to deliver the latest delievered touch event just before rendering07:32
slettaOr they accumulate input over time and do some low pass filtering on it to make it a bit smoother07:33
slettaIdeally, we would do smoothing on the touch events we pick up in lipstick's input driver, sync that to vsync and send those out07:34
slettaBut right now, it is a bit more intricate :p07:34
tortoisedoc:D07:34
tortoisedocit always is07:34
tortoisedocokay ill need to dig into this compression me thinks07:35
tortoisedocto see if this is causing the issue or not07:35
slettamm, happy hunting :)07:35
tortoisedoc:D07:36
tortoisedocthe main problem is the environment07:36
tortoisedocworking on a production device is, well, limiting07:36
tortoisedocsletta : feel free to join me :P07:36
tortoisedocnow you have a test app :)07:36
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ghosalmartinStskeeps: morning09:47
tortoisedochurhur09:50
tortoisedochttp://arstechnica.com/security/2016/05/chinese-arm-vendor-left-developer-backdoor-in-kernel-for-android-pi-devices/09:50
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tortoisedocsletta, w00t : https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-4016710:46
tortoisedocseems  lipstick is not the only one experiencing issues10:46
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tortoisedoc(as in related to compression of input)12:03
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Tofetortoisedoc: and they forgot to remove it from the other branch: https://github.com/allwinner-zh/linux-3.4-sunxi/blob/A83T/arch/arm/mach-sunxi/sunxi-debug.c#L4112:29
tortoisedocTofe: Ups :D12:32
tortoisedocmight make it easier to port sfos on these devices tho!12:32
tortoisedocnow that intel shot the atom platform down, i need to look for a manageable (and most importantly supported) long term tablet :)12:33
tortoisedocsad that there will be no x86 tho12:37
Tofeyup12:46
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jubalhhi17:09
jubalhI am trying to get rid of Android on my tablet and later also on my phone. For this i am currently researching a bit17:11
jubalhCould you tell me about what actually Mer is, maybe Mer vs Tizen?17:11
jubalhIs Mer the base and Samsung developed Tizen ontop of it?17:12
jubalhOn my tablet I would just prefer any linux distro with gnome3, but seems thats not that easy :)17:14
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jubalhhello ;)17:14
Sleep_Walker:D17:14
Sleep_Walkerjubalh: will you ask all the important questions and make notes?17:15
jubalhhehe17:15
jubalhI already asked some, but waiting for answers :-)17:16
Sleep_WalkerOK17:16
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SfietKonstantinWjubalh: Mer is != Tizen18:21
SfietKonstantinWthey share the same "parent" (MeeGo)18:21
SfietKonstantinWbut are backed by different people18:21
SfietKonstantinWand have different tech stack18:21
Sleep_WalkerI was thinking (as many people before me for sure) about mixing Android and desktop distribution built for ARM18:27
Sleep_Walkerusing Android kernel, vendor blobs and put there distro we're used to18:28
Sleep_Walkerand I'd like to not reinvent the wheel18:29
faenilthat's what Jolla and Ubuntu phones/tablets do :)18:29
Sleep_Walkeryeah18:30
Sleep_Walkerbut Ubuntu phones are not intended to be used like linux phones18:31
Sleep_Walker(I have one ;)18:31
Sleep_Walkeryou can't install packages to the root system (or it will break badly in future), applications are self-contained packages ignoring dynamic linking, FHS, etc18:32
Sleep_WalkerI'm looking for already done pieces18:33
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Sleep_Walkerhow linux world use androids daemons for controlling HW, what daemons are done and used, what applications, what "launchers" or other touch control ready environments there are around18:35
faenilyou can totally use Ubuntu phone like a normal linux phone, if you intend to18:35
faenil(I do)18:36
* faenil works for Canonical :)18:36
Sleep_Walkeryou can run every application with MIR support18:39
faeniland X, using XMir18:39
faenil(project Libertine)18:40
faenilbut I don't want to steal Mer's channel, this is OT here :) feel free to ask in #ubuntu-touch or #ubuntu-app-devel if you have more questions ;)18:40
Sleep_Walkerit is probably good idea, but I'm not sure how warmly they'll welcome my rants and my attempts (which will be OT there as well)18:42
faenilit depends if you just want to rant if you have constructive criticism/questions, of course :) but feel free to contact me if you have any additioanl question18:43
faenil[..] to rant OR if you have contstructive [..]18:43
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nh1402you could always work on xwayland19:18
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Sleep_WalkerI use wayland with xwayland on my notebook so why not20:49
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