Friday, 2015-12-25

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claudenwanybody here work with mer-mtp?11:11
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claudenwhello?  are there any humans here?11:32
Bostikprobably enjoying the holidays11:34
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claudenwdo you know if anyone is working with mer-mtp?11:36
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Stskeepsyou mean buteo-mtp?11:36
claudenwI am trying to find configuration / startup info (right buteo-mtp)11:37
claudenwI think I have the buteo-mtp ported to the Rasp. Pi A. (I had to add a couple of includes and will submit those back as patches as soon as I am certain that it all works)11:39
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claudenwwhere can I go to get help with  buteo-mtp?12:29
aard_claudenw: mtp is mostly used as plugin in msyncd (which I guess you're not using on the pi). there should be a shell script in the source tree for starting up mtpd standalone12:38
claudenwTHX12:40
claudenwthe only script I can find is start-mtp.sh and it wants a /dev/mtp/ep0 device.  Are there any docs for how to install the dev?12:44
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aard_claudenw: it's functionfs, in case of mtp as buteo plugin it can get loaded/unloaded if functionfs becomes available, working with usb-moded. in standalone operation you need to make sure that functionfs is mounted before you start the mtp server12:47
aard_the source tree contains a mount configuration for systemd12:49
claudenwTo verify that I understand what is happening.... what I want to do is expose part of the pi file system over MTP on USB.  If I load the functionfs then start MTP I should be able to do this correct?12:51
aard_yes12:52
claudenwWould this be much easier if I were to install the complete mer image on the PI?12:52
claudenwI can only find the wayback machine instructions for doing that.12:53
aard_never used mer on pi. assuming your kernel has functionfs, and you got mtp compiled already it shouldn't be hard12:54
claudenwdoes mer support fuse?12:55
aard_not sure if it's in the core repos12:56
claudenwOK.  I'm runnig ArchLinux on the pi so I think I'm ok wrt functionfs.  This should keep me busy for a bit.  thx12:57
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Victorhi16:17
Victorcan anyone recommend a few references about how to get started understanding mer from a development point of view?16:17
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r0kk3rzVictor, from what perspective?16:27
Victorr0kk3rz: I want to play with it, understand it, and eventually modify it16:28
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Victoras I'm not yet sure how much of jolla/plasma mobile/nemo is actually covered by nemo and how much is covered by the UI, and I don't really understand where the lines are draw, is not yet clear to me how useful/not useful it is16:28
Victor:)16:28
Victors/by nemo/by mer/16:28
VictorI've see some architecture graphs in the wiki, which mostly seems to describe a normal linux environment with X11/wayland on top16:29
r0kk3rzVictor, mer is a core and so doesnt do UI16:29
Victorbut as i said, I'm not exactly sure what does it provide16:30
Victorr0kk3rz: yep, that I understand, but as linux unlike windows or the BSDs doesn't have the concept of "core os" is not clear to me where the line is draw. To put an example: the HW drivers are clearly part of the OS, but is the window manager part of it? is the telephony stack part of it? and if I wanted to develop a UI, what does mer provide for me?16:31
r0kk3rzsure its hard to draw a concrete line16:32
Victorr0kk3rz: do you have any recommendation about how to start understanding what mer does, what it does provide and how to build and test images based on it?16:34
r0kk3rzessentially mer gets you a kernel, and a toolchain to build images based on what you want to include16:35
Victoror maybe to put it more specific:16:35
Victorif I had some given hardware and wanted to use mer to build something on top of it. How should i start?16:36
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r0kk3rzVictor, https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation_For_Beginners16:41
r0kk3rznot sure how up to date that is16:41
r0kk3rzyou'll want to have an instaled mersdk for that16:42
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Victorso normal steps for playing with mer would be to download a mer sdk, create an image and start it under virtualbox?16:43
r0kk3rzthat would be a good start16:44
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VictorI'll try with that and follow with more specific questions afterwards about the different components, libraries, etc16:47
Victorthanks!16:47
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r0kk3rzVictor, https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Architecture16:55
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Victorthat's the one I saw. The biggest problem is that this is mostly a standard linux environment17:00
Victorie: I can't see much difference between a normal linux distro and mer according to those graphics17:00
r0kk3rzVictor, thats kinda the point really17:01
Victorr0kk3rz: so what's the value of mer? being it cross compiled for ARM? (no disrespect intended, just trying to understand it)17:02
r0kk3rzthe toolchain and the patterns mostly17:02
Victorthe patterns?17:02
r0kk3rzhow you define what goes into an image17:03
Victorso oversimplifying it, one could say that mer is mostly something like a scripted linux from scratch that supports cross compiling to ARM and x86 architectures17:03
Victorwould that be a reasonable simplification?17:04
r0kk3rzthats a fair description17:04
Victorand oversimplifying again, the device manufacturers/distro makers would just need to provide drivers for the given hw + a window manager and maybe some powerful libraries to ease development17:05
Victoris that correct?17:05
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r0kk3rzdepends on the end product in mind, but yeah17:07
r0kk3rzhardware adaptation is the main thing17:07
VictorI see17:07
Victornice, now I think I can understand digging into how things work and get a general idea of what's provided/not provided17:08
r0kk3rzwrt some of the not-provideds, thats where nemomobile comes in17:09
r0kk3rzproviding a whole bunch of middlewares to create a mobile phone type device17:10
Victorseems that KDE mobile intends to achieve more or less the same thing and is also based in mer17:10
Victoris just not clear to me the differentiators between all of this projects. Ie: why jolla vs nemo vs kde mobile?17:11
Victorin the case of the last two versus the first one, you could say that OSS is a big selling point17:11
r0kk3rzplasma mobile isnt using mer at this point17:13
r0kk3rzthey're using ubuntu touch as a base17:13
r0kk3rznemo also doesnt have a full experience, but has packages that are useful for building a one17:14
Victorthat's confusing. In the wiki of the mer project there are links to plasma mobile as a recommended end user package for testing mer17:14
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r0kk3rzVictor, it is confusing, they did release plasma active which was based on mer, but thats not the current stuff17:15
VictorI see17:15
Victorso at this point the main users of mer are jolla, tizen and nemo mobile?17:16
r0kk3rznot sure about tizen17:17
VictorI see17:18
r0kk3rztheres a bit of a stack with mer > nemo > sailfish17:20
r0kk3rzeach one feeding the next17:20
Victorstupid question, but do you know why ubuntu mobile and kde active didn't decide to use mer?17:20
Victors/ubuntu mobile/ubuntu touch/17:21
r0kk3rzkdes partner blue systems have prior experience with ubuntu touch17:21
r0kk3rzand ubuntu are trying their best to become redhat17:22
Victorthe second point seems to be easily fixable just by hiring current devs from mer and changing project directions17:23
r0kk3rzsome of the community members here have been working towards getting the newer plasma mobile stuff onto mer17:23
r0kk3rzsince all the building blocks are there afaik17:23
VictorI see17:23
Victorthat sounds cool17:24
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claudenwhow can I determine which linuxes have functionfs?17:29
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Victorr0kk3rz: do you know if there is any other place to fetch the mer source code than gitweb.merproject.org? (which seems to be down)17:37
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r0kk3rzVictor, git.merproject.org17:38
Victorawesome, thx!17:40
Victordo you know by chance how compatible is mer + libhybris with android HW for running nemo mobile?17:40
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tbrVictor: essentially the same as the sailfishOS HADK process17:42
tbrVictor: so looking at that PDF is a good start17:42
VictorI haven't heard about that, let me search for it17:43
Victorthx tbr !17:43
tbrnp17:44
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Victorclosing for today. Have a good day and thanks for the help!18:27
Victorbye18:27
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faenillbt: Stskeeps https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/zypper/merge_requests/421:45
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faenilfixed libsolv as well, and that should fix libzypp as a consequence21:54
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