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| Uninstall | Stskeeps: hello | 10:16 |
|---|---|---|
| Uninstall | we are building everything with gcc 4.9 | 10:16 |
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| Stskeeps | ok | 10:17 |
| Uninstall | Stskeeps: we are still having an issue with LTO | 10:21 |
| Uninstall | it looks like that the bootstrapped gcc uses system binutils to load the .so plugin for LTO | 10:21 |
| Uninstall | but binutils should be for i586 while bootstrapped gcc is for arm | 10:21 |
| Uninstall | Stskeeps: have you got any idea about this issue? | 10:23 |
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| M4rtinK | lbt: is there a tablet (i486) target in OBS ? | 18:38 |
| lbt | yes | 18:38 |
| M4rtinK | I've tried the "sailfishos latest" target | 18:38 |
| M4rtinK | but that gives me armv8hl by default | 18:38 |
| M4rtinK | and adding the "i586" target to that does not work | 18:39 |
| lbt | erm - I'm sure there's a x86 variant | 18:39 |
| M4rtinK | https://build.merproject.org/project/monitor/home:MartinK:sailfish:modrana-harbour | 18:39 |
| M4rtinK | (thi package is noarch but I have other arch specific packages I will need to rebuild) | 18:40 |
| lbt | yeah - that's setup wrong ... minute | 18:40 |
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| lbt | https://build.merproject.org/project/monitor/home:MartinK:sailfish:modrana-harbour | 18:45 |
| lbt | see https://build.merproject.org/project/meta/home:MartinK:sailfish:modrana-harbour | 18:45 |
| lbt | we have a different base repo per arch on this OBS :) | 18:45 |
| * lbt goes to feed the cat | 18:45 | |
| lbt | oh ffs | 18:51 |
| M4rtinK | lbt: thanks! :) | 18:52 |
| lbt | well, thank me when it builds ... some issue on jolla releases afaict | 18:52 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, would it be possible to add the other repo to "add repository page" ? | 18:53 |
| M4rtinK | eq. here https://build.merproject.org/project/add_repository_from_default_list/home:MartinK:sailfish:modrana | 18:54 |
| M4rtinK | for example | 18:54 |
| M4rtinK | that adds just the sailfish_latest_armv7hl flavour | 18:54 |
| lbt | I shall see - I think there's a problem on that page ... | 18:54 |
| M4rtinK | well, it's not that long even sailfish was on it | 18:55 |
| M4rtinK | *was not on it | 18:55 |
| M4rtinK | but it's kinda helpful, both for beginners & when setting up new subprojects | 18:56 |
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| M4rtinK | as you don't need to hunt for the target using search or copy past XML snippets | 18:56 |
| M4rtinK | *paste | 18:56 |
| lbt | yup :) | 18:57 |
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| M4rtinK | BTW, one an unrelated note we have recently spawned an OBS like project in Fedora:https://copr.fedoraproject.org/ | 19:01 |
| M4rtinK | IIRC it is written in Python, runs on top of openstack and uses Mock for buildroots | 19:01 |
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| tbr | ah, yes, reinventing the wheel is always a great idea | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: proud open source tradition | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | soon we'll reinvent reinvention! | 19:13 |
| tbr | right now I'm just reinventing^wrefilling my vodka glas | 19:13 |
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| r0kk3rz | why dont they just rename NIH syndrome to redhat syndrome | 20:48 |
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| M4rtinK | hey, at least it's not as bad as Canonical :) | 21:10 |
| stephg | and at least it's python ;) | 21:10 |
| stephg | (sorry tbr :P ) | 21:10 |
| M4rtinK | I've seen a talk by an (ex) OpenSuse guy about OBS | 21:11 |
| M4rtinK | and reportedly the backend code is quite messy | 21:11 |
| M4rtinK | ah, here it is: https://youtu.be/AMHgZyVf0D8?list=PLjT7F8YwQhr--08z5smEEJ-m6-0aFjgOU | 21:13 |
| M4rtinK | "multiple languages - everybody can contribute!" :) | 21:14 |
| M4rtinK | so maybe COPR will be more clean and mature - who knows :) | 21:16 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah i guess its hard to get people to donate their spare time to cleaning up a project | 21:21 |
| r0kk3rz | although code refactoring is a good skill to develop, and kinda fun in its own right | 21:22 |
| M4rtinK | definitely :) | 21:23 |
| M4rtinK | I'm working on a codebase in constant development since at least 1999 in my day job :) | 21:24 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: sounds familiar | 21:24 |
| M4rtinK | sou you kinda have to be able to do that & generally care quite a bit about code quality | 21:24 |
| M4rtinK | it's here by the way: https://github.com/rhinstaller/anaconda | 21:25 |
| M4rtinK | the oldest commits have been imported from CVS IIRC | 21:26 |
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| stephg | I'm lucky, I get to turn crap off in the day job, I think I'd go nuts if I were supporting something that was written when I started working :/ | 21:27 |
| stephg | also, turning things off IS THE BEST THING EVER | 21:28 |
| M4rtinK | we generally try to use general libs for stuff as they become available | 21:29 |
| r0kk3rz | stephg: ive made sure i've got metrics to work from, its not so bad so long as you can see a progress bar somewhere | 21:29 |
| M4rtinK | like the IP address parsing code in Python 3 we have recently started using on Fedora | 21:30 |
| M4rtinK | so that we can drop and no longer need to maintain our code for this | 21:30 |
| M4rtinK | another thing is to split out stuff into modules/libraries that others might find useful | 21:31 |
| M4rtinK | we did that with the storage code for example: http://blivet.readthedocs.org/en/latest/intro.html | 21:32 |
| stephg | r0kk3rz: fair enough but it all becomes unmaintainable at somepoint. I wind my personal clock back 10 years and dread to think of the CPAN modules that I had to support in that job... | 21:32 |
| r0kk3rz | stephg: if you continue letting it go bad, then sure. lately ive been doing fairly major refactoring/re-engineering type work | 21:34 |
| M4rtinK | I think it helps when you know beforehand you will need to support the code for 13+ years :) | 21:34 |
| r0kk3rz | similar to what M4rtinK is talking about, reducing the amount of code to maintain by using the framework better | 21:35 |
| M4rtinK | IMHO many problems come from the fact of not knowing beforehand that a piece of code will need to be supported for a long time | 21:35 |
| r0kk3rz | true, or time pressures and a need to get it out the door 'now' | 21:36 |
| r0kk3rz | plus a bit of inexperience thrown in | 21:36 |
| stephg | r0kk3rz (and M4rtinK too) fine and thats fair enough but stuff of that age any dev that had knowledge is long gone and/or there's no business knowledge/requirement/understanding to maintain it, at least in my experience | 21:37 |
| * stephg is an admin so coming at it bottom up rather than top down | 21:37 | |
| stephg | and deffo to pressures of delivery, that's a thing | 21:37 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah it kinda depends on the project really | 21:37 |
| r0kk3rz | i work on a scada system for oil depots, so theres plenty of requirement to maintain/simplify/make-betterer | 21:38 |
| stephg | aha, so industrial hw | 21:39 |
| M4rtinK | our project is thankfully better off - there is actually very little (if any code) dating back all the way back to 1999 due to incremental changes, refactoring and improvements over the years | 21:40 |
| stephg | so I can see that being a double-edged sword:- notionally the HW doesn't change and likewise your interfaces to it (if everyone's done their jobs right, lol etc.) | 21:41 |
| M4rtinK | and quite a few of my colleagues have been working on the project for a long time | 21:41 |
| stephg | but also, nothing changes and at the end of the lifecycle that's really frustrating/slow/frustrating and slow | 21:41 |
| M4rtinK | but I can see how crazy it can be if a project is lacking these two things | 21:41 |
| stephg | M4rtinK: definitely | 21:42 |
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| stephg | M4rtinK: in a way that's kinda my point:- I think back to that turn-of-the-century Perl and know why it was written like that, in that (only libraries that'd do it at the time, quick to prototype) and know that it was outmoded in 2009 when I left that company, and expect it's still running *somewhere*, but it was out of date by the time I saw it and has been a liability ever since | 21:45 |
| r0kk3rz | stephg: yeah theres a bit of that, and at the low level stuff lots of 'product does not match documentation' reverse engineering fun as well | 21:46 |
| stephg | but that company and all companies in that space the whole lifecycle is short, like months or years | 21:46 |
| stephg | r0kk3rz: ouch :/ | 21:46 |
| M4rtinK | there is a surprising amount of infrastructure running on Perl :) | 21:47 |
| M4rtinK | for example Bugzilla | 21:47 |
| M4rtinK | IIRC parts of OBS | 21:47 |
| stephg | don't get me wrong, I started life with Perl so it'll always have a place in my heart | 21:47 |
| M4rtinK | even the (really good!) information system of the University where I studied IT :) | 21:48 |
| nh1402 | I started programming with Visual Basic, that doesn't have a place in my heart. | 21:48 |
| stephg | cpan >> pypi, and you'd better believe >>>> pecl or whatever nonsense hipster ruby does :p | 21:48 |
| stephg | grr and why do they all reinvent package managers, badly | 21:49 |
| stephg | but that's for another day :p | 21:49 |
| jpakkane | Simple: because the native package managers are not solving the problems they have. | 21:58 |
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| M4rtinK | well, many upstreams are actively hostile to packagers | 22:06 |
| M4rtinK | and many more passively by bundling tons of patched-to-hell libraries and not supporting usage of system libraries | 22:07 |
| stephg | M4rtinK: also in their defence their target platforms are hostile too (thinking of brew, gem on OSX basically) | 22:07 |
| M4rtinK | no wonder packages are not being updated that often if you need to first patch the source to hell and back to cut out all the bundled crap | 22:07 |
| stephg | yes | 22:08 |
| M4rtinK | yeah | 22:08 |
| M4rtinK | or Android | 22:08 |
| stephg | also true! | 22:08 |
| M4rtinK | (I'm bundling statically compiled Python 3 (!), all needed Qt 5 libraries and PyOtherSide in the modRana APK :P | 22:08 |
| stephg | eep! | 22:09 |
| M4rtinK | no way around that unfortunately | 22:09 |
| stephg | that must be huge (relatively speaking) | 22:09 |
| M4rtinK | 28 MB | 22:10 |
| M4rtinK | http://modrana.org/packages/android/ | 22:10 |
| M4rtinK | think it could still be made smaller but I haven't had time to look deeper into it for now | 22:11 |
| stephg | don't get me wrong, I'm glad for a cpan or a pypi or what have you, I just really hate a gem or a pip (especially if a c compiler is involved) | 22:11 |
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| M4rtinK | BTW, the modRana python files are compiled into the Qt plugin binary as QRC :) | 22:11 |
| stephg | thatsaid venvs are beautiful, but that doesn't help you if you need to package half of the core of qt) | 22:12 |
| M4rtinK | and there is a special Python import loader that transparently fetches them from the resource at runtime when requested :) | 22:12 |
| stephg | ha | 22:13 |
| M4rtinK | like this you don't need to unpack the files first | 22:13 |
| stephg | anyway, bedtime | 22:13 |
| stephg | gnight M4rtinK | 22:13 |
| M4rtinK | thps idea & implementation BTW :) | 22:13 |
| M4rtinK | stephg: good night! :) | 22:13 |
| stephg | hehe | 22:13 |
| stephg | night, see you in the morning | 22:14 |
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