Monday, 2015-10-12

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UninstallStskeeps: hello10:16
Uninstallwe are building everything with gcc 4.910:16
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Stskeepsok10:17
UninstallStskeeps: we are still having an issue with LTO10:21
Uninstallit looks like that the bootstrapped gcc uses system binutils to load the .so plugin for LTO10:21
Uninstallbut binutils should be for i586 while bootstrapped gcc is for arm10:21
UninstallStskeeps: have you got any idea about this issue?10:23
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M4rtinKlbt: is there a tablet (i486) target in OBS ?18:38
lbtyes18:38
M4rtinKI've tried the "sailfishos latest" target18:38
M4rtinKbut that gives me armv8hl by default18:38
M4rtinKand adding the "i586" target to that does not work18:39
lbterm - I'm sure there's a x86 variant18:39
M4rtinKhttps://build.merproject.org/project/monitor/home:MartinK:sailfish:modrana-harbour18:39
M4rtinK(thi package is noarch but I have other arch specific packages I will need to rebuild)18:40
lbtyeah  - that's setup wrong ... minute18:40
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lbthttps://build.merproject.org/project/monitor/home:MartinK:sailfish:modrana-harbour18:45
lbtsee https://build.merproject.org/project/meta/home:MartinK:sailfish:modrana-harbour18:45
lbtwe have a different base repo per arch on this OBS :)18:45
* lbt goes to feed the cat18:45
lbtoh ffs18:51
M4rtinKlbt: thanks! :)18:52
lbtwell, thank me when it builds ... some issue on jolla releases afaict18:52
M4rtinKBTW, would it be possible to add the other repo to "add repository page" ?18:53
M4rtinKeq. here https://build.merproject.org/project/add_repository_from_default_list/home:MartinK:sailfish:modrana18:54
M4rtinKfor example18:54
M4rtinKthat adds just the sailfish_latest_armv7hl flavour18:54
lbtI shall see - I think there's a problem on that page ...18:54
M4rtinKwell, it's not that long even sailfish was on it18:55
M4rtinK*was not on it18:55
M4rtinKbut it's kinda helpful, both for beginners & when setting up new subprojects18:56
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M4rtinKas you don't need to hunt for the target using search or copy past XML snippets18:56
M4rtinK*paste18:56
lbtyup :)18:57
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M4rtinKBTW, one an unrelated note we have recently spawned an OBS like project in Fedora:https://copr.fedoraproject.org/19:01
M4rtinKIIRC it is written in Python, runs on top of openstack and uses Mock for buildroots19:01
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*** tanty is now known as tanty_off19:03
tbrah, yes, reinventing the wheel is always a great idea19:12
Stskeepstbr: proud open source tradition19:12
Stskeepssoon we'll reinvent reinvention!19:13
tbrright now I'm just reinventing^wrefilling my vodka glas19:13
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r0kk3rzwhy dont they just rename NIH syndrome to redhat syndrome20:48
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M4rtinKhey, at least it's not as bad as Canonical :)21:10
stephgand at least it's python ;)21:10
stephg(sorry tbr :P )21:10
M4rtinKI've seen a talk by an (ex) OpenSuse guy about OBS21:11
M4rtinKand reportedly the backend code is quite messy21:11
M4rtinKah, here it is: https://youtu.be/AMHgZyVf0D8?list=PLjT7F8YwQhr--08z5smEEJ-m6-0aFjgOU21:13
M4rtinK"multiple languages - everybody can contribute!" :)21:14
M4rtinKso maybe COPR will be more clean and mature - who knows :)21:16
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r0kk3rzyeah i guess its hard to get people to donate their spare time to cleaning up a project21:21
r0kk3rzalthough code refactoring is a good skill to develop, and kinda fun in its own right21:22
M4rtinKdefinitely :)21:23
M4rtinKI'm working on a codebase in constant development since at least 1999 in my day job :)21:24
r0kk3rzM4rtinK: sounds familiar21:24
M4rtinKsou you kinda have to be able to do that & generally care quite a bit about code quality21:24
M4rtinKit's here by the way: https://github.com/rhinstaller/anaconda21:25
M4rtinKthe oldest commits have been imported from CVS IIRC21:26
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stephgI'm lucky, I get to turn crap off in the day job, I think I'd go nuts if I were supporting something that was written when I started working :/21:27
stephgalso, turning things off IS THE BEST THING EVER21:28
M4rtinKwe generally try to use general libs for stuff as they become available21:29
r0kk3rzstephg: ive made sure i've got metrics to work from, its not so bad so long as you can see a progress bar somewhere21:29
M4rtinKlike the IP address parsing code in Python 3 we have recently started using on Fedora21:30
M4rtinKso that we can drop and no longer need to maintain our code for this21:30
M4rtinKanother thing is to split out stuff into modules/libraries that others might find useful21:31
M4rtinKwe did that with the storage code for example: http://blivet.readthedocs.org/en/latest/intro.html21:32
stephgr0kk3rz: fair enough but it all becomes unmaintainable at somepoint. I wind my personal clock back 10 years and dread to think of the CPAN modules that I had to support in that job...21:32
r0kk3rzstephg: if you continue letting it go bad, then sure. lately ive been doing fairly major refactoring/re-engineering type work21:34
M4rtinKI think it helps when you know beforehand you will need to support the code for 13+ years :)21:34
r0kk3rzsimilar to what M4rtinK is talking about, reducing the amount of code to maintain by using the framework better21:35
M4rtinKIMHO many problems come from the fact of not knowing beforehand that a piece of code will need to be supported for a long time21:35
r0kk3rztrue, or time pressures and a need to get it out the door 'now'21:36
r0kk3rzplus a bit of inexperience thrown in21:36
stephgr0kk3rz (and M4rtinK too) fine and thats fair enough but stuff of that age any dev that had knowledge is long gone and/or there's no business knowledge/requirement/understanding to maintain it, at least in my experience21:37
* stephg is an admin so coming at it bottom up rather than top down21:37
stephgand deffo to pressures of delivery, that's a thing21:37
r0kk3rzyeah it kinda depends on the project really21:37
r0kk3rzi work on a scada system for oil depots, so theres plenty of requirement to maintain/simplify/make-betterer21:38
stephgaha, so industrial hw21:39
M4rtinKour project is thankfully better off - there is actually very little (if any code) dating back all the way back to 1999 due to incremental changes, refactoring and improvements over the years21:40
stephgso I can see that being a double-edged sword:- notionally the HW doesn't change and likewise your interfaces to it (if everyone's done their jobs right, lol etc.)21:41
M4rtinKand quite a few of my colleagues have been working on the project for a long time21:41
stephgbut also, nothing changes and at the end of the lifecycle that's really frustrating/slow/frustrating and slow21:41
M4rtinKbut I can see how crazy it can be if a project is lacking these two things21:41
stephgM4rtinK: definitely21:42
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stephgM4rtinK: in a way that's kinda my point:- I think back to that turn-of-the-century Perl and know why it was written like that, in that (only libraries that'd do it at the time, quick to prototype) and know that it was outmoded in 2009 when I left that company, and expect it's still running *somewhere*, but it was out of date by the time I saw it and has been a liability ever since21:45
r0kk3rzstephg: yeah theres a bit of that, and at the low level stuff lots of 'product does not match documentation' reverse engineering fun as well21:46
stephgbut that company and all companies in that space the whole lifecycle is short, like months or years21:46
stephgr0kk3rz: ouch :/21:46
M4rtinKthere is a surprising amount of infrastructure running on Perl :)21:47
M4rtinKfor example Bugzilla21:47
M4rtinKIIRC parts of OBS21:47
stephgdon't get me wrong, I started life with Perl so it'll always have a place in my heart21:47
M4rtinKeven the (really good!) information system of the University where I studied IT :)21:48
nh1402I started programming with Visual Basic, that doesn't have a place in my heart.21:48
stephgcpan >> pypi, and you'd better believe >>>> pecl or whatever nonsense hipster ruby does :p21:48
stephggrr and why do they all reinvent package managers, badly21:49
stephgbut that's for another day :p21:49
jpakkaneSimple: because the native package managers are not solving the problems they have.21:58
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M4rtinKwell, many upstreams are actively hostile to packagers22:06
M4rtinKand many more passively by bundling tons of patched-to-hell libraries and not supporting usage of system libraries22:07
stephgM4rtinK: also in their defence their target platforms are hostile too (thinking of brew, gem on OSX basically)22:07
M4rtinKno wonder packages are not being updated that often if you need to first patch the source to hell and back to cut out all the bundled crap22:07
stephgyes22:08
M4rtinKyeah22:08
M4rtinKor Android22:08
stephgalso true!22:08
M4rtinK(I'm bundling statically compiled Python 3 (!), all needed Qt 5 libraries and PyOtherSide in the modRana APK :P22:08
stephgeep!22:09
M4rtinKno way around that unfortunately22:09
stephgthat must be huge (relatively speaking)22:09
M4rtinK28 MB22:10
M4rtinKhttp://modrana.org/packages/android/22:10
M4rtinK think it could still be made smaller but I haven't had time to look deeper into it for now22:11
stephgdon't get me wrong, I'm glad for a cpan or a pypi or what have you, I just really hate a gem or a pip (especially if a c compiler is involved)22:11
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M4rtinKBTW, the modRana python files are compiled into the Qt plugin binary as QRC :)22:11
stephgthatsaid venvs are beautiful, but that doesn't help you if you need to package half of the core of qt)22:12
M4rtinKand there is a special Python import loader that transparently fetches them from the resource at runtime when requested :)22:12
stephgha22:13
M4rtinKlike this you don't need to unpack the files first22:13
stephganyway, bedtime22:13
stephggnight M4rtinK22:13
M4rtinKthps idea & implementation BTW :)22:13
M4rtinKstephg: good night! :)22:13
stephghehe22:13
stephgnight, see you in the morning22:14
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