Monday, 2015-02-02

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tigeliStskeepz: https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/xdg-utils/merge_requests/112:38
tigelihttps://git.merproject.org/mer-core/libsndfile/merge_requests/112:38
tigelihttps://git.merproject.org/mer-core/coreutils/merge_requests/112:38
tigelihttps://git.merproject.org/mer-core/elfutils/merge_requests/212:38
tigeli;)12:38
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Stskeepztigeli: $DEITY damnit12:47
Stskeepztigeli: careful on coreutils patches and licensing12:47
Stskeepzrest should be okay12:47
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tigeliStskeepz: yeah, I guess the coreutils-patch is out of the question.. didn't remember to check the license last night :(13:17
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tigeliStskeepz: and I can't write the patch.. I've seen the fix already :D13:24
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locusfoh gplv3 is that bad?13:49
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tigelilocusf: yeah.. if we take a patch from gplv3 tree, we need to replace the license as well13:54
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locusfoh13:57
locusfand you should do a ton of other things as well if you migrate coreutils to gplv3?13:58
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tigelilocusf: yep14:04
* tigeli is sad14:04
SK_worktigeli: then how will you patch this stuff ?14:05
tigeliSK_work: well, someone will need to reproduce the crash/problem with backtrace and fix it :) Someone which has not seen the fix14:05
SK_work:s14:07
SK_workcan't you do the patching by hand ?14:07
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tigeliSK_work: well.. if I have already seen the patch and I remember it.. I can just apply it :D14:10
tigelican't14:10
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SK_worktigeli: so what happens when we have a security issue14:16
SK_workwith a GPLv3 only patch ?14:16
tigeliSK_work: we need to get poc for it and reproduce the issue.. and fix it.14:18
tigeliSK_work: might now be easy14:18
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SK_worktigeli: don't sound nice14:20
SK_workas we don't benefit from upstream14:20
SK_workI know that there is this gplv3 limitation14:20
tigeliSK_work: I agree14:24
tigelibut for some reason I can't reproduce the crash on the coreutils we have right now :D14:25
tigelion my laptop I can reproduce the issue right away14:25
tigeliwell.. :D14:25
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tigelidate/touch just runs eating 100% cpu14:27
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SK_worktigeli: :(14:32
SK_workbut on the Jolla no ?14:32
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tigeliSK_work: yeah, can't exactly reproduce the same problem on jolla.. I can only get them to eat the cpu14:51
SK_worktigeli: as if eating cpu wasn't bad14:52
SK_work... :D14:52
tigeliSK_work: well it's not as worse as executing random code ;)14:55
tigelias bad14:55
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SK_worktigeli: maybe it ca ?14:56
SK_workor you cannot reproduce14:57
tigeliSK_work: found the reason.. mer/jolla is not vulnerable due it has old enough coreutils :)14:58
tigelior it is.. but only to infinite loop14:58
tigelinot to heap corruption/crash14:59
SK_work"only"14:59
tigeliwhich is good thing14:59
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ryukafalzis gplv3 forbidden in mer?17:00
ryukafalz(for core distro stuff)17:00
Stskeepzryukafalz: well, for stuff that would be required to run a device17:01
Stskeepzas in, base minimal image17:01
Stskeepzgcc is gplv317:01
Stskeepzas it's build time17:01
Stskeepzbut nothing stops anybody from doing their gplv3 branchs17:01
Stskeepzes17:01
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ryukafalzMostly what I mean is - is that a Mer policy? Or is it a Jolla policy and Mer goes along with it because Jolla is the biggest user/contributor of Mer?17:03
tbrISTR it was already a MeeGo policy17:04
Stskeepzit's a mer policy and was a meego policy17:04
Stskeepzgplv3 poses funny issues in device making17:04
Stskeepzdon't give people less reasons to use your core17:04
Stskeepz:P17:04
ryukafalzHmm, fair enough re: device making, though as a user I rather like gplv3 provisions :P17:05
Stskeepzyes17:06
* tbr idly ponders how many of the *buntu touch packages get relicensed to a commercial license when they end up on a commercial device17:07
Stskeepztbr: well, i guess we'll soon know17:07
tbrthat was also my thought17:07
ryukafalzheh17:07
tbrit's sure easy to run gplv3 on $randomdevice17:08
Stskeepzdid anybody hear anything interesting from the ubuntu touch fosdem talk?17:08
tbrbut if you try to actually sell it17:08
aard_ryukafalz: gplv3 was written during a time when small series hardware was too expensive to think of, so it's designed against big, bad vendors, without considering there might be a time coming with smaller, more open source friendly vendors17:08
Stskeepzi can't find any mentions besides privacy questions17:08
Stskeepzon twitter, for example17:08
SK_workStskeepz: there were privacy questions on the Ubuntouch presentation ?17:08
StskeepzAnother audience question on privacy on Ubuntu devices, specifically on the advertising slogan "Ubuntu gets to know you over time" #FOSDEM17:09
Stskeepz:P17:09
SK_workStskeepz: well you can have some learning mechanism, if it is under your cotnrol17:11
SK_workwhat I plan to research on the Jolla via phonebot17:11
Stskeepzyes17:11
Stskeepzthere's a few good ways to do it and a few really terrible ones that involve the cloud17:11
Stskeepz:P17:11
Stskeepzfor privacy17:11
ryukafalzaard_: I don't think smaller vendors should be exempt from those provisions regardless of how "open source friendly" they are - the GPLv3 is a mechanism to keep them in check. That said, I can understand if smaller vendors may not have the power to do so (e.g. they're using hardware components from a manufacturer and are restricted in what they can do with them).17:12
ryukafalz"cloud" - ugh17:12
aard_ryukafalz: it's not about being exempt, just that some things are not possible to do when following a strict interpretation of the license terms, and especially small companies don't have the money to test it out in court17:13
ryukafalzYeah, understandable (was the last bit of my message truncated?)17:14
* ryukafalz dreams of a day when GPLv3 can be everywhere though17:16
aard_one thing is that the assumption back then was that a vendor doing secure boot would do it to lock out users, and prevent hardware access. as a result, doing secure boot in a way giving power users full access is a grey area, as it'd always cause some level of functionality loss. the fsfs position there is that the license should not be interpreted that strictly -- but the opinion of the fsf does not have much influence in court17:18
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ryukafalzHmm, interesting17:23
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ryukafalzaard_: Do you have any resources on that problem with secure boot and GPLv3? From what I can tell it should be fine...17:26
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aard_ryukafalz: the problem is the clause that a user must be able to replace a gplv3 component without loss of functionality. the legally untested question here is what is covered by 'loss of functionality'. and alone the risk of being sued over that is enough to not try it, no matter if you'll win in the end, or not17:31
ryukafalzIn what case would a software developer be at risk of violating that provision though?17:33
aard_it's not about a developer, it's about a vendor17:34
ryukafalzRight, hmm17:35
aard_redhat/suse don't have that problem as they're not shipping devices with their software on already17:36
sledgesDell would17:36
ryukafalzI guess the question then is... what functionality would be lost by shipping a device with user-modifiable secure boot settings?17:37
aard_ryukafalz: loss of full trust chain for the whole boot, loss of secure key storage area when using trust zone. some of them are constraints of current arm security implementations17:39
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ryukafalzI'm not too familiar with ARM security, but is it not the case that binaries can be signed by any of the keys in the trusted store?17:41
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aard_you usually have space for 4 keys, and you don't necessarily can replace them later on17:41
ryukafalzIf they're not replaceable then I could see how that could be a problem17:42
ryukafalzotherwise though the user could add their own signing key17:42
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