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| tigeli | Stskeepz: https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/xdg-utils/merge_requests/1 | 12:38 |
|---|---|---|
| tigeli | https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/libsndfile/merge_requests/1 | 12:38 |
| tigeli | https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/coreutils/merge_requests/1 | 12:38 |
| tigeli | https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/elfutils/merge_requests/2 | 12:38 |
| tigeli | ;) | 12:38 |
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| Stskeepz | tigeli: $DEITY damnit | 12:47 |
| Stskeepz | tigeli: careful on coreutils patches and licensing | 12:47 |
| Stskeepz | rest should be okay | 12:47 |
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| tigeli | Stskeepz: yeah, I guess the coreutils-patch is out of the question.. didn't remember to check the license last night :( | 13:17 |
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| tigeli | Stskeepz: and I can't write the patch.. I've seen the fix already :D | 13:24 |
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| locusf | oh gplv3 is that bad? | 13:49 |
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| tigeli | locusf: yeah.. if we take a patch from gplv3 tree, we need to replace the license as well | 13:54 |
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| locusf | oh | 13:57 |
| locusf | and you should do a ton of other things as well if you migrate coreutils to gplv3? | 13:58 |
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| tigeli | locusf: yep | 14:04 |
| * tigeli is sad | 14:04 | |
| SK_work | tigeli: then how will you patch this stuff ? | 14:05 |
| tigeli | SK_work: well, someone will need to reproduce the crash/problem with backtrace and fix it :) Someone which has not seen the fix | 14:05 |
| SK_work | :s | 14:07 |
| SK_work | can't you do the patching by hand ? | 14:07 |
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| tigeli | SK_work: well.. if I have already seen the patch and I remember it.. I can just apply it :D | 14:10 |
| tigeli | can't | 14:10 |
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| SK_work | tigeli: so what happens when we have a security issue | 14:16 |
| SK_work | with a GPLv3 only patch ? | 14:16 |
| tigeli | SK_work: we need to get poc for it and reproduce the issue.. and fix it. | 14:18 |
| tigeli | SK_work: might now be easy | 14:18 |
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| SK_work | tigeli: don't sound nice | 14:20 |
| SK_work | as we don't benefit from upstream | 14:20 |
| SK_work | I know that there is this gplv3 limitation | 14:20 |
| tigeli | SK_work: I agree | 14:24 |
| tigeli | but for some reason I can't reproduce the crash on the coreutils we have right now :D | 14:25 |
| tigeli | on my laptop I can reproduce the issue right away | 14:25 |
| tigeli | well.. :D | 14:25 |
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| tigeli | date/touch just runs eating 100% cpu | 14:27 |
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| SK_work | tigeli: :( | 14:32 |
| SK_work | but on the Jolla no ? | 14:32 |
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| tigeli | SK_work: yeah, can't exactly reproduce the same problem on jolla.. I can only get them to eat the cpu | 14:51 |
| SK_work | tigeli: as if eating cpu wasn't bad | 14:52 |
| SK_work | ... :D | 14:52 |
| tigeli | SK_work: well it's not as worse as executing random code ;) | 14:55 |
| tigeli | as bad | 14:55 |
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| SK_work | tigeli: maybe it ca ? | 14:56 |
| SK_work | or you cannot reproduce | 14:57 |
| tigeli | SK_work: found the reason.. mer/jolla is not vulnerable due it has old enough coreutils :) | 14:58 |
| tigeli | or it is.. but only to infinite loop | 14:58 |
| tigeli | not to heap corruption/crash | 14:59 |
| SK_work | "only" | 14:59 |
| tigeli | which is good thing | 14:59 |
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| ryukafalz | is gplv3 forbidden in mer? | 17:00 |
| ryukafalz | (for core distro stuff) | 17:00 |
| Stskeepz | ryukafalz: well, for stuff that would be required to run a device | 17:01 |
| Stskeepz | as in, base minimal image | 17:01 |
| Stskeepz | gcc is gplv3 | 17:01 |
| Stskeepz | as it's build time | 17:01 |
| Stskeepz | but nothing stops anybody from doing their gplv3 branchs | 17:01 |
| Stskeepz | es | 17:01 |
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| ryukafalz | Mostly what I mean is - is that a Mer policy? Or is it a Jolla policy and Mer goes along with it because Jolla is the biggest user/contributor of Mer? | 17:03 |
| tbr | ISTR it was already a MeeGo policy | 17:04 |
| Stskeepz | it's a mer policy and was a meego policy | 17:04 |
| Stskeepz | gplv3 poses funny issues in device making | 17:04 |
| Stskeepz | don't give people less reasons to use your core | 17:04 |
| Stskeepz | :P | 17:04 |
| ryukafalz | Hmm, fair enough re: device making, though as a user I rather like gplv3 provisions :P | 17:05 |
| Stskeepz | yes | 17:06 |
| * tbr idly ponders how many of the *buntu touch packages get relicensed to a commercial license when they end up on a commercial device | 17:07 | |
| Stskeepz | tbr: well, i guess we'll soon know | 17:07 |
| tbr | that was also my thought | 17:07 |
| ryukafalz | heh | 17:07 |
| tbr | it's sure easy to run gplv3 on $randomdevice | 17:08 |
| Stskeepz | did anybody hear anything interesting from the ubuntu touch fosdem talk? | 17:08 |
| tbr | but if you try to actually sell it | 17:08 |
| aard_ | ryukafalz: gplv3 was written during a time when small series hardware was too expensive to think of, so it's designed against big, bad vendors, without considering there might be a time coming with smaller, more open source friendly vendors | 17:08 |
| Stskeepz | i can't find any mentions besides privacy questions | 17:08 |
| Stskeepz | on twitter, for example | 17:08 |
| SK_work | Stskeepz: there were privacy questions on the Ubuntouch presentation ? | 17:08 |
| Stskeepz | Another audience question on privacy on Ubuntu devices, specifically on the advertising slogan "Ubuntu gets to know you over time" #FOSDEM | 17:09 |
| Stskeepz | :P | 17:09 |
| SK_work | Stskeepz: well you can have some learning mechanism, if it is under your cotnrol | 17:11 |
| SK_work | what I plan to research on the Jolla via phonebot | 17:11 |
| Stskeepz | yes | 17:11 |
| Stskeepz | there's a few good ways to do it and a few really terrible ones that involve the cloud | 17:11 |
| Stskeepz | :P | 17:11 |
| Stskeepz | for privacy | 17:11 |
| ryukafalz | aard_: I don't think smaller vendors should be exempt from those provisions regardless of how "open source friendly" they are - the GPLv3 is a mechanism to keep them in check. That said, I can understand if smaller vendors may not have the power to do so (e.g. they're using hardware components from a manufacturer and are restricted in what they can do with them). | 17:12 |
| ryukafalz | "cloud" - ugh | 17:12 |
| aard_ | ryukafalz: it's not about being exempt, just that some things are not possible to do when following a strict interpretation of the license terms, and especially small companies don't have the money to test it out in court | 17:13 |
| ryukafalz | Yeah, understandable (was the last bit of my message truncated?) | 17:14 |
| * ryukafalz dreams of a day when GPLv3 can be everywhere though | 17:16 | |
| aard_ | one thing is that the assumption back then was that a vendor doing secure boot would do it to lock out users, and prevent hardware access. as a result, doing secure boot in a way giving power users full access is a grey area, as it'd always cause some level of functionality loss. the fsfs position there is that the license should not be interpreted that strictly -- but the opinion of the fsf does not have much influence in court | 17:18 |
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| ryukafalz | Hmm, interesting | 17:23 |
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| ryukafalz | aard_: Do you have any resources on that problem with secure boot and GPLv3? From what I can tell it should be fine... | 17:26 |
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| aard_ | ryukafalz: the problem is the clause that a user must be able to replace a gplv3 component without loss of functionality. the legally untested question here is what is covered by 'loss of functionality'. and alone the risk of being sued over that is enough to not try it, no matter if you'll win in the end, or not | 17:31 |
| ryukafalz | In what case would a software developer be at risk of violating that provision though? | 17:33 |
| aard_ | it's not about a developer, it's about a vendor | 17:34 |
| ryukafalz | Right, hmm | 17:35 |
| aard_ | redhat/suse don't have that problem as they're not shipping devices with their software on already | 17:36 |
| sledges | Dell would | 17:36 |
| ryukafalz | I guess the question then is... what functionality would be lost by shipping a device with user-modifiable secure boot settings? | 17:37 |
| aard_ | ryukafalz: loss of full trust chain for the whole boot, loss of secure key storage area when using trust zone. some of them are constraints of current arm security implementations | 17:39 |
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| ryukafalz | I'm not too familiar with ARM security, but is it not the case that binaries can be signed by any of the keys in the trusted store? | 17:41 |
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| aard_ | you usually have space for 4 keys, and you don't necessarily can replace them later on | 17:41 |
| ryukafalz | If they're not replaceable then I could see how that could be a problem | 17:42 |
| ryukafalz | otherwise though the user could add their own signing key | 17:42 |
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