Tuesday, 2015-01-27

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kimmolilbt: is the full compile logfile available somewhere/somehow from obs? if i click dowload logfile, it doesn't do anything08:22
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tbrkimmoli: the build log from the UI doesn't have it?08:46
Stskeepsosc remotebuildlog if it doesn't work08:47
kimmoliit is just tail08:47
kimmolitnx Stskeeps08:49
faenilkimmoli, known bug :/08:53
Stskeepsfaenil: pester lbt about it while in fosdem :p08:53
faenilhehe08:54
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faenilkimmoli, https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=851 cc lbt09:08
merbotMer bug 851 in Mer OBS "Download log button leads to 401" [Task,New]09:08
lbtty09:08
faenillbt, just a reminder, it's not new :)09:08
lbtyep - also faenil: can you select a menu for meal @ fosdem09:08
faenilI have already?09:08
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kimmolii got 401 from osc remotebuildlog /that log url/09:09
faenilkimmoli, try replacing build. with api. at the beginning09:09
kimmoliit works with project pkg repo arch09:10
lbtfaenil: fine - I did a page refresh and it's there09:10
faenillbt, cool, I added it a few days ago, then last night I noticed it wasn't there anymore :/ and added it bac09:11
faenilk09:11
lbttimoph: menu for fosdem09:11
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timophlbt: a sec09:37
timophlbt: menu 109:37
lbtedited and set09:38
timophthanks09:39
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nazaninA request to Mer Package Maintainers to support vendor tracking of changes in Mer, read more: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/005571.html13:12
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SK_worknazanin: Is the bot already in place ?13:30
SK_workhttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/FAQ#Vendor_.27Jolla.27_Frequently_Asked_Questions <- this makes it looks like it is13:30
nazaninSK_work: Jolla's CI-bot? yes13:31
SK_workno, Mer's CI bot13:31
SK_workand the Mer -> Jolla bz bridge13:31
SK_workanother interesting question is: what is the state of MerNemo merge13:32
SK_workand what to do with HADK stuff13:32
nazaninSK_work: yeah, the mer-jolla bugzilla bridge is in place. It's not fully automated yet,though13:32
nazaninSK_work: the faq has something about the Nemo (if that's what you mean)13:33
nazaninabout HADK, lbt? ^13:33
Stskeepswe should just a hackathon on the merge stuff in fosdem..13:33
locusfmer + nemo merge should only depend on permissions fixing to obs -> gitlab, or thats what I heard from Stskeeps13:34
Stskeepsnod13:34
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locusfI don't have a laptop to help out :/13:34
SK_worknazanin: the faq says stuff about Nemo indeed ... but can this be done in the future ?13:35
SK_workStskeeps: hackatlon for merge stuff ? perfect13:35
Stskeepsnemo bugs would become mer bugs13:35
Stskeepsas in, nemo mw13:35
nazaninyes13:36
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locusfyeah since mw components are now inside mer-core:devel13:38
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SK_workStskeeps: nemo-hadk bugs will stay nemo-hadk bugs. But the bot could benefit to sledges and HADK13:40
Stskeepsmm13:40
sledgesbeing worked on13:43
SK_workcool13:44
SK_workStskeeps & nazanin will we start to see some benefits of the bridge / bot soon, ie, will the new organization be effective soon ?13:45
SK_work(so that we can check who is the owner of a bug, and the status etc.)13:45
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nazaninSK_work: afaik, yes... the bug statuses on mer and jolla are not dependent,though13:45
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SK_worknazanin: ah ? so you won't see the owner etc ?13:46
SK_workthat's too bad :(13:46
nazaninSK_work: you will13:46
SK_workoops, sorry, it is the status that is independant ?13:47
nazaninSK_work: yes13:47
SK_workin practice what will be the difference ? won't you see "opened", "assigned", "resolved", in sync with jolla ?13:47
nazaninSK_work: the bugs status in jolla is in sync with the integration process13:47
nazanin(that is jolla's software release process)13:48
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sledgesSK_work: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/FAQ#How_is_the_tracking_bug_updated_in_the_Jolla_bugzilla.3F13:49
nazaninwas just pasting the faq link :P13:49
sledges;P13:49
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SK_worksledges: haha13:49
SK_workok13:49
SK_workso it is up to sailors to change the status mer side13:49
SK_work:(13:49
nazaninno13:50
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SK_workah ?13:50
nazanineach part change the bug status accordingly13:50
nazaninjolla on jolla bugzilla and mer on mer bugzilla13:50
SK_workfor what I have read, it is about mer bz status change => jolla bz status change13:50
SK_workthere is no sync back or am I wrong ?13:50
nazaninmer bz status change -> jolla will be notifies of the status change :)13:50
nazaninnotified*13:50
SK_workyes, but if a sailor finished the dev, and change status in jolla bz13:51
SK_workit won't impact mer bz13:51
nazaninjolla bz status change -> no change on mer13:51
SK_workor it is the bot that is in charge of changing the status on mer ?13:51
nazaninafaik, it shouldn't (at least for now)13:51
SK_workmmm ok, let's see in practice13:51
nazanin*nod*13:51
nazaninSK_work: for now it's all about having the infra ready for collaboration. we'll see how we can proceed with this and will adjust things accordignly :)13:54
SK_workI'm eager to see how this works13:54
nazaninme too ^_^13:55
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SK_work^_^ = nazanin's signature super cute smiley13:57
nazaninhaha13:57
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locusf:)14:00
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SK_worksmall question for those who were at FOSDEM last year14:16
SK_workhow is internet connection @ FOSDEM ?14:16
SK_workis there any open network ? is it fast ?14:17
Mikaela+ is there captive portal?14:18
Mikaelathat seems important and annoying question14:18
Stskeepsno captive portal, there's even ipv6..14:18
Stskeepsi wouldn't download a huge file on it, but it's there and it works14:18
Stskeepsfosdem is the best and brightest of foss in europe, :)14:19
Stskeepsand if not everybody in here saw it, re FOSDEM: https://together.jolla.com/question/77616/whos-actually-coming-to-the-mersailfish-meal-at-fosdem/14:21
MikaelaI wonder if I will ever get there14:21
Stskeepsgoing this year and not trusting public transport, or in general?14:22
Mikaelain general14:22
Stskeepsnod14:22
MikaelaI am more or less tied into Kotka, Finland14:22
Stskeepsi regret not going earlier14:22
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SK_workping lbt14:45
SK_workwhat will be your talk at FOSDEM ? cannot find the link :(14:45
faenilSK_work, look it up on the app :)14:47
faenilSK_work, or... https://fosdem.org/2015/schedule/event/sailfishos/14:47
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SK_workthanks faenil  :)14:54
SK_workso many talks14:54
SK_workmuch talks, such awesome14:54
faenilyeah14:54
locusfI've now got talks for each day until 17:0014:56
SK_worklocusf: you already planned your days ?14:57
SK_workI didn't yet :/14:57
locusfSK_work: yeah, but just a draft now, if you guys have pressing matters to discuss face-to-face then that of course takes priority14:58
SK_worklocusf: hackatlon to finish mer nemo merge ? :)15:07
* Stskeeps looks at his plan15:07
locusfSK_work: well that too :)15:08
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alh(/b 5915:11
alhWow third channel today15:11
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SK_workmade my plan to fosdem, or rather, list of talks to attend. Too much overlap ...15:37
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tbrwhile I absolutely welcome jolla finally making a more coordinated move16:40
tbrpart of that mail gives me massive nausea16:40
tbrthe reality distortion field must reach steve levels in places16:41
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Stskeepswhich parts are nauseous?16:44
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tbrwe are so great at community, we are awesome, we put it first, yada yada yada16:44
nazanintbr: which parts? :)16:44
tbrso why did the community need to kick your ass for over a friggin year16:44
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tbrand the mer migration iis the half arsest thing in a long while16:45
tbrI'd suggest to eat a double serving of humble pie before the next statement16:45
* Stskeeps needs to go bathe a kid so won't be making any statements until later16:46
tbrenjoy16:47
* SK_work is not sure if it is nauseaous or not, but part of the mail are definitely not needed16:48
SK_workstraight to the point instead of putting a long introduction about community blabla16:48
nazaninWe needed to point everything out for everyone.I see what you mean here, but this proposal is meant to be read by anyone willing to contribute :)16:50
nazaninso some repetative info had to be wrotten there16:50
tbrnazanin: if you want everything pointed out, then brace for a few lengthy mails in which community members point out which parts you conveniently glossed over where jolla sucks elephants through dialysis filters16:51
* nazanin is typing on the go 16:51
tbrthis email is onesided and close to pr-spinning in my personal opinion16:51
tbrwhich sabotages its well intentions16:51
tbras said, I applaud the move, I'm unsure what to think of the form of delivery16:53
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Aardtbr: a) this has been in the making for way over a year, even before nazanin joined us, and is in no way related to "community kicking", as you call it. the people who care about community try to put all of their spare resources in there. we know we don't have enough resources on community matters, but that's not helped by attacking the people who are trying to change that b) mer merge (I assume you mean mer<>nemo merge) is wanted by jolla, but not ...16:54
Aard... pushed by jolla16:54
tbrAard: a result of kicking or not is rather irrelevant. mer and nemo is stalled or impeded for a very long time as the result of nobody being on the bridge of /that/ ship after putting it on autopilot/remote and taking all maps and charts off the bridge.16:59
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tbrwe all know jolla has their challenges and a rather small crew16:59
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tbrdecisions to concentrate work on certain things, even for the best intentions do have consequences in other areas. Even if you go out of your way to pretend that there weren't.17:02
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wmaronecould be worse, they could be like most other companies and keep you completely in the dark17:04
tbrwmarone: that's pretty much what they did and now conveniently forget to mention17:05
Aardthis mail is from the people who did spend a significant amount of time to get things going and prepare infrastructure, so I believe it's justified to say they do care about community efforts. your issues about resourcing (or lack thereof) should be targeted at people responsible for the resourcing17:07
tbrI don't see any value in further discussion, seeing with what attitude my well intentioned criticism is met. I'll just close and address the last statement by pointing out that the mail is signed on behalf of "the Jolla team", not "the Jolla team excluding resourcing responsibles"17:10
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tbrand just to repeat myself a third time. I absolutely and without reservation applaud the move itself.17:14
* lbt would like to talk more but he's going dancing because he needs some non-tech life at the moment17:15
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* nazanin is now at home with a more stable connection17:21
nazanintbr: Jolla didn't push, we proposed the idea and requested the adaptation from Mer17:22
nazaninand about the not-needed words: this request is sent as a proposal, and I needed to follow the formalities to write that proposal. It might make it seem a bit boring (or not too-tech'ie), but we also have the mer-wiki and the faq part which describe things without spicying it up ;)17:26
nazaninI also tried to keep the tech part and non-tech part as separated as possible in the email, so that if reader gets bored, he/she can skip to the parts which straightly point out the main purpose17:28
faenilI agree about the autopilot and maps off the bridge, fwiw...17:29
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faenilI have to keep asking Stskeeps for news or TODOs, and I'm sure he's full of other things to do as well17:30
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faeniland I understand if he's bothered by my continuous questions on updates, as I'm sure you understand we're sad about the current situation as well17:31
faenilIt really seems like this whole merge move was started and now nobody knows who's piloting the ship17:32
faenilthere are no indications, no public updates, not even a tiny wiki entry on Mer Wiki17:33
faeniln-o-t-h-i-n-g at all :(17:33
faeniland it's been like that for months (or is it more than a year already?)17:33
faenilI contributed as I could, moving to the new gcc17:34
faenilbut it always feels like I have to beg for new tasks or news17:34
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faenilwhen the move was started I asked for a very simple thing: a wiki page tracking what's needed and how people can help17:35
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faenilI (we?) don't even have the knowledge to do that by ourselves! we really are missing the maps, at least imho17:36
faenilit seems all is depending on jolla, yet jolla doesn't have time for it17:36
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faenilso it's been there in limbo for a year, without anyone even bothering to actually set up a wiki page or something that we could spread to look for community help17:37
faenilthere, my thoughts are on the web now, forever :P17:37
faenileven though it seems I'm talking to a wall. I'm confident someone will eventually read it all17:38
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SK_workfaenil: let's see at FOSDEM17:49
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faenilABOUT THE EMAIL: there's a bit of PR but not too much, imho18:10
faenilAnd, just like tbr, I'm HAPPY to see this happening. So thanks Aard nazanin and those who worked on this18:10
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r0kk3rzeeeemail?18:32
kimmolir0kk3rz: e.g. https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/005571.html18:37
r0kk3rzyeah just reading it now18:37
r0kk3rzlooks good :)18:37
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tbrStskeeps / tigeli - https://community.qualys.com/blogs/laws-of-vulnerabilities/2015/01/27/the-ghost-vulnerability20:18
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Sfiet_Konstantinmore shiny logos for bugs20:32
Sfiet_Konstantinand one serious bug for Linux ...20:32
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tbrSfiet_Konstantin: I could do without the logos... :-/20:36
Sfiet_Konstantintbr: well, at least it raises general awareness20:36
tbrSfiet_Konstantin: well, having seen more than one corporate environment, I doubt the awareness is reaching far enough20:38
Sfiet_Konstantintech press do fancy articles with nice logos20:41
tbrcorporate landscapes remain unpatched20:41
Sfiet_Konstantinthis *might* lead to IT people reading these articles think about their environnement20:41
tbrit's not the IT people. It's C-level that needs to wake up20:42
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Sfiet_Konstantinyou can do nothing against C20:47
Sfiet_Konstantinsadly C is here to stay as there is no alternative20:47
tigelitbr: yeah.. noticed it already, not too happy about it :D20:53
tbr:>20:53
tigelitbr: patchin already20:54
tbr*nod* thanks20:55
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tigelitbr: https://github.com/mer-packages/glibc/pull/621:44
tigelitbr: though it seems that the issue is fairly minor on the client-side21:44
r0kk3rzany progress with having an out-of-band patch process for this sort of thing?21:51
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kimmoliah, we are having big update then... as if everything using glibc gets updated ?21:53
tigelikimmoli: there was already pr-5 ;)21:53
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kimmoliah21:53
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tigelir0kk3rz: more qa-resources would be needed to do that, we can't just push updates without doing proper qa on them21:55
tigelir0kk3rz: ubuntu/debian/redhat.. will not come and fix your devices if they broke due an update21:55
tbrtigeli: I didn't have time to read up on the openwall article. Apparently it needs a certain combination of calls. Still possible21:55
M4rtinKtigeli: well, I think fixes for stuff like this are usually heavily tested before being released21:56
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tigelir0kk3rz: and I still think we are doing better job fixing security issues than apple/google for those other devices21:56
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tigeliM4rtinK: yes, but they do testing on component versions which we might not use :)21:57
M4rtinKtigeli: you mean because of GPLv3 ?21:58
tigeliM4rtinK: no21:58
tigelinothing to do with licensing21:58
M4rtinKor version difference from stable enterprise Linux distros ?21:59
r0kk3rztigeli: agreed, you guys do a fine job21:59
r0kk3rztigeli: but i do think there should be a defined process outside the usual feature/bugfix release schedule21:59
tigelir0kk3rz: sure.. I didn't say it would not be done but just said that more resources would be needed for that :)22:00
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r0kk3rzunderstood22:00
r0kk3rzgiven that google/apple/microsoft have all been in the news over unpatched exploits, i would have thought it would be good pr to show speedy patch releases for major issues22:02
tigelisure and it's not like we would not want to do that :)22:03
tigelibut you never know what future brings ;)22:04
M4rtinKI guess it also heavily depends on the type of the vulnerability22:04
M4rtinKboth on impact & nature of the fix/breakage potential22:05
r0kk3rzM4rtinK: sure, but in this day an age security fixes should be fired as soon as they're ready22:06
r0kk3rzand not wait around for a patch tuesday22:06
M4rtinKr0kk3rz: agreed22:07
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M4rtinKr0kk3rz: most of these issue have been responsible disclosure, so ideally updates should have been on the way already now22:08
M4rtinKbut I can understand it is not always that easy22:08
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artemmaHi All22:22
artemmaMy test stopped building after last sailfishos update22:22
artemmaQT += testlib results in "Project ERROR: Unknown module(s) in QT: testlib"22:23
artemmaI guess some package definitions have changed and PkgConfigBR: - Qt5QuickTest isnt installing enough anymore22:23
artemmadoes somebody know the new package names?22:23
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ljphmmm23:30
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