Friday, 2014-08-29

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UninstallStskeeps: ok, gcc is ok, I'm going to open a merge request08:14
Uninstalltime for an espresso before it08:17
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Stskeepsi unclogged ppl/cloog for now08:17
Stskeepsjust to get stuff built08:17
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Uninstallhave fun ;)09:15
Stskeepslet's see..09:15
UninstallStskeeps: we were not doing build_cloog while doing crossbuild... I killed that thing09:16
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Stskeepsso where does the +cat >> ../../cloog-%{cloog_version}/source/isl/constraints.c << \EOF 63009:19
Stskeeps etc come from?09:19
Stskeepsand they become .so's or .a's?09:19
Uninstalli trust it makes sense09:19
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UninstallStskeeps: is it possible to change the scheduler for a certain project on OBS?09:30
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Stskeepshmm only manually i'd say09:30
Stskeepslet's see if it builds..09:31
UninstallStskeeps: you mean using osc?09:32
Stskeepsyeah as a start09:32
Uninstallmy idea was to try to bootstrap aarch64 on our local OBS, but sadly we are still using the old version09:33
Uninstallso it doesn't have aarch64 scheduler I think09:33
Uninstallwhat's the right scheduler on the old OBS?09:34
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Stskeepsalso missing .04 tarball09:58
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UninstallStskeeps: sorry, my fault while porting it to mer09:59
Uninstallfixing it in a second09:59
Stskeepsnod, that's why i build test first ;)09:59
UninstallStskeeps: do you like to have it updated to 2014.04 or we keep it to current version?09:59
Stskeepsshould we play it safe and keep it at .01 right now, then .04 when it works?10:00
Stskeepsa lot easier to sort out10:00
Uninstallok, sure10:00
Uninstalllet's do just the cloog thing10:00
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UninstallStskeeps: pushed10:01
Stskeepswas just 04 -> 01 in %setup right?10:01
* tbr still hopes for an affordable ARMv8 board in the near future10:02
* Stskeeps too10:02
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UninstallStskeeps: yes10:07
Uninstalltbr: Jetson TK1 aarch64 version10:07
UninstallI have the armv7 version which is quite cool and woth the low price10:07
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tbrUninstall: is there going to be one, that would be awesome10:11
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Uninstalltbr: they also announced that their CPU will be quite different from others10:13
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Uninstallthey are going to build something like the old transmeta design10:14
tbrlet's hope that doesn't mean breaking things in the name of "differentiation"10:14
Uninstallwith no instruction reordering inside the CPU10:14
Stskeepstbr: it allllways does10:14
tbrStskeeps: yeah, that's what I'm afraid of10:15
Uninstalland it will be done by a separated unit that then it caches the output10:15
StskeepsUninstall: ok, it built it seems like.. will take a more swing at it in a moment10:22
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UninstallStskeeps: probably you missed the question, what kind of OBS scheduler should I use for older OBS versions?10:41
Stskeepsthat i don't know10:42
Stskeepsaarch64 is what i use as we upgraded10:42
Uninstallby the way is it ok that new OBS version doesn't display logs?10:42
Stskeepsit does but it's a bit tempermental when it comes to browsers10:42
Uninstallhonestly I still don't know the real meaning of schedulers, why armv7hl is armv8el and armv6l is armv7el and things like that10:43
Uninstallwhat's the difference between schedulers?10:43
Stskeepsnothing really10:44
Uninstalloh, I see10:45
Uninstallthis will save me some headaches10:45
Uninstallso I will name aarch64 on our OBS armv8el and then I will rename it to aarch64 using some kind of OBS trick?10:45
Uninstalldo you think is a good plan?10:45
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Stskeepsis up to you, careful about prjconfs10:46
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Uninstallthank you :()10:48
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UninstallStskeeps: I see, I didn't test it on aarch64, I think I need the usual config.guess config.sub patch?11:04
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UninstallStskeeps: <--  Cool11:07
UninstallI'm going to commit/push it11:08
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UninstallStskeeps: fixed11:16
Uninstallcheck it11:16
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Stskeepsneed new MR though11:17
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Stskeepswill merge if i get a MR, be aware i already merged your previous MR..11:18
Uninstalloh, I see11:19
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Uninstallwait a second...11:21
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Stskeepsforgot to bundle patch?11:26
UninstallStskeeps: it was already there from fedora a long time ago ;)11:26
Stskeepsso it is11:26
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StskeepsUninstall: hmm, i think we have a manual cloog-ppl >= dependency12:03
UninstallStskeeps: where do you think?12:03
Stskeeps%if %{build_cloog}12:04
StskeepsRequires: cloog-ppl >= 0.1512:04
Stskeepswe can prolly ditch that12:04
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Uninstallweird, I think I alrady removed it12:04
Stskeepsnot in my gcc at least12:04
Uninstallodd, I don't see that line here12:05
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UninstallI see, I removed it only once12:07
UninstallStskeeps: did you already merge previous MR?12:08
Stskeepsit built fine for i486 at least12:08
Stskeepsso just send a new one and i think we've rid the world nicely of cloog and ppl dependencies ;)12:09
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Stskeepselse i'll just push it quickly..12:29
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UninstallStskeeps: sorry, I had some network issues, going to creare MR right now12:30
Stskeepsah ok12:30
Uninstallgcc.git is a quite big repo ;)12:31
Stskeepslet's see how this builds..12:35
Stskeepslbt_: gitlab is giving 50212:42
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lbtI hoped no-one would notice12:42
lbtforgot to PSA  ... sorry12:42
Stskeepsit's a good sign that we use it12:42
lbtyeah - I've been head down in obs source stuff and shoulda mentioned it12:43
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lbtPSA: git is back :)12:49
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caternI think mer should include GPLv3 software15:59
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caternit's a pointless assault on user freedom and contrary to the spirit of the GPL to not allow it15:59
sledgesall I know (and probably some others in this channel), that GPLv3 permits software patents, could be completely wrong so would like to hear from you more about it (i don't know real reasons GPLv3 is not in Mer)16:00
caternalso, Ubuntu Touch include GPLv3 stuff and they don't appear to be concerned16:00
sledgesas i never took interest, but now got someone to talk to :)16:00
caternhm? GPLv3 requires not doing any bad patent stuff (I'll/you'll have to look up the exact wording if you want) and GPLv2 just doesn't mention it16:02
caternso, GPLv2 is much less of a protection here16:02
caternthere's a lot of stuff about this on the FSF's site16:02
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SK_workStskeeps, lbt opinions ^ ?16:03
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sledgesi always ask our good ole tbr for an opinion too16:25
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SK_worktbr give nice info too16:30
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lbtcatern: one thing about delivering what your customers want is to be clear about your customers and what they want :) Mer's focus is on device vendors. We're mainly interested in what they want. They're not demandiing GPLv3 at the moment and in fact are still averse to it. That's why we are as we are.16:45
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caternlbt: well, it *really* weirds me out to see an open source project barring GPLv316:51
caternthat's what OS X does, and it feels strange - also, you might at least package the GPLv3 updated versions and make them available16:52
caternthat is, that's what OS X [a proprietary system] does, and it's strange [for an open system to do it]16:53
caternalso, I mean, *you* know that the device vendors are being silly for being afraid of GPLv316:55
caternare they really so averse to it? do they really bring it up specifically? do they really ask for "no GPLv3"?16:56
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SK_workcatern: however, device vendors requires this17:01
SK_workas mer is an intermediate project, they need to fit the need of vendors17:01
SK_worktjat's all17:01
SK_workand it is not as if you didn't had the right to install the packages you want17:01
SK_workjust grab bash and that's all17:02
caterni mean, it's not that awful in itself17:02
caternit just makes me suspicious of you :)17:02
SK_workcatern: what is suspicious to an OSS lover (defender, advocate, zealot, choose what you want) is that SFOS is not oss17:03
caternwell yes17:03
caterni guess i should be more suspicious about that17:03
SK_workwell, maybe you shouldn't as the system is pretty ok17:03
SK_work(mostly OSS, quite hackable)17:04
SK_workso ...17:04
caternwhat actual parts of it aren't FLOSS?17:04
SK_workAndroid engine17:04
SK_worktext input prediction17:04
SK_workand on the Jolla, of course, HW adaptation17:04
SK_work(ie drivers)17:04
SK_worksome daemons (exchange active sync, otherhalf daemon)17:04
SK_work(ambience daemon)17:05
caternhow much of the UI? how deep down the stack of the UI?17:05
caternlike, is the Wayland server FLOSS?17:05
caternor compositor or whatever17:05
SK_workcatern: basically everything you see is non-oss (-assets and the toolkit used under)17:05
SK_workthe wayland compositor is based on lipstick, which is oss17:05
SK_workthey implement their own lipstick (aka the homescreen) that is not17:06
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SK_workbut you can ask locusf for glacier, an OSS homescreen17:06
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SK_work(oss OS actually, that is Nemo Mobile)17:06
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caternthis is a really cruel dilemma sailfish puts me in you know :)17:07
caternproprietary and GNU/Linux or open source and Dalvik/Linux :)17:07
SK_workno dalvik17:07
caternI mean Android :)17:07
SK_work(except if you run the android thing)17:07
SK_workthe part of Android used in HA is opensource17:07
SK_workhowever underlying drivers are not of course17:08
caternI meant all of AOSP - that has open source UI :)17:08
SK_workyep, opensource "reference ui"17:08
sledgesand what's the use of aosp?
SK_workanyway, for a user of the Jolla, and opensource lover, I find the Jolla /quite/ hackable17:09
caternsledges: just because it's becoming more proprietary, isn't an excuse for Jolla17:09
sledges20:07 < catern> proprietary and GNU/Linux or open source and Dalvik/Linux :)17:09
sledgesi wouldn't call that a dilemma imgo17:09
sledgeswhen we talk in terms of being able to use the platform daily17:10
SK_workcatern: closed soruce ahs been discussed: you have a process and a vision behind (designers work etc.) so letting a community do UI work don't fit in their workflow17:10
SK_workand if you are unhappy you can do some work to implement / reimplement closed stuff on Jolla17:10
caternit's still disappointing but it's better than the alternatives17:11
SK_workof course, you will still sit on an Android kernel17:11
SK_workcatern: go get your neo 90017:11
SK_workif you want just OSS17:11
SK_workand full OSS17:11
SK_workmaybe I should get one when out17:12
SK_worknot sure yet17:12
sledgesand put nemo on :)17:12
SK_worksledges: yep17:12
SK_workI should work for nemo, but too lazy, and doing sailfish stuff instead17:12
locusfI should too :p17:13
SK_worktrying to port java on the mer / nemo : sailfish platform17:13
SK_workwill check C# too17:13
SK_workbecause, there might be a world outside C++ and Qt17:13
SK_workis there ?17:13
sledgesSK_work: mono is coming btw17:13
sledgesseen tizen thread?17:13
locusfpython might be coming17:14
sledges(to sailfish)17:14
SK_worksledges: yep17:14
SK_worklocusf: well, python is rather close to come17:14
SK_workthe pyotherhalf thing is nice17:14
SK_workI'm thinking of doing jotherhalf17:14
kimmolipyotherside ?17:14
SK_work(even if I'm not a java dev, but a friend is)17:14
SK_workkimmoli: from a bootstrapped QML app, you import a module that gives you a python env17:15
SK_workand you can populate QML side stuff (models) with python17:15
kimmoli(that was my comment)17:16
* SK_work is wearing a "I'm the other half tee shirt"17:16
SK_workyeah, just understood17:16
kimmoliseems i'm more perl than python, still...17:17
SK_workkimmoli: brrr, perl :s17:17
SK_workI'm too young for perl17:17
SK_workas I never saw the Perl era17:17
SK_workdirectly dived into python17:17
SK_worknow it seems I'm missing the javascript one :/17:18
kimmolinothing to shame on that imho17:18
SK_workwell, missing a whole trend and potential job is a shame imo17:18
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SK_workhave to go17:19
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tbrcatern: it's tl;dr, but a few remarks from my side. you don't like closed source bits. That's fine, nobody here will argue with that. It's a sad fact though that many hardware specific parts are closed source with no easy/stable oss alternatives. Which leads me to another bit: no OS has that open, neither ubuntu, nor firefoxOS, nor Android.17:24
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caternsome are closer than others17:25
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tbrwhen it comes to hardware adaptation, it's pretty much the same across the board17:41
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