Wednesday, 2013-07-10

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ericcc_测试可以哦09:35
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Uninstalllbt: ping12:03
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Stskeepshttp://durham.io/2013/07/09/seth-vidal-creator-of-yum-open-source-software-killed-in-bike-accident-off-hillandale-rd/12:55
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Sagelbt: what is the current estimate for next mer release?15:06
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Stskeepslbt: welcome home?17:36
lbt:)17:36
Stskeepslbt: i think we're good for a full release?17:37
lbtand 40m of trying to make my desktop machine boot - grub is such fun17:37
lbtStskeeps: sure17:37
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lbtno changes to git ?17:38
Stskeepsno changes17:38
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Uninstalllbt: ping17:53
lbto/17:54
lbtStskeeps: running17:54
Uninstalllbt: can I ask a couple of things about some package versions?17:54
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lbtsure17:54
Uninstalldo you know why kernel-headers in mer is up to linux 3.8?17:54
UninstallI don't think is a good idea, it would prevent to safely use an older kernel as I know17:55
Uninstalla lot of embedded hardware out there have very very old kernels17:55
Uninstallsecond question is about why we are using eglibc 2.15 instead of 2.1717:56
Uninstalland last question is about why we are using gcc 2.6 instead of gcc 2.717:56
UninstallStskeeps: have you got any experience with mipsel? binutils seems to fail without any good reason17:58
UninstallI've got just "Killed Job"17:58
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StskeepsUninstall: where does it kill it?18:02
StskeepsUninstall: kernel-headers are safe on older kernels18:03
Stskeepsalso, you mean 4.6 gcc18:03
Stskeepseglibc 2.15 - we try to follow ubuntu's as to be fairly bug compatible with linaro18:03
Stskeepsif they have a new one, it may be a time to upgrade18:04
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lbtUninstall: sorry I got called away18:22
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UninstallStskeeps: linaro has both 2.7 and 2.818:33
Uninstallprobably 2.7 is more mature18:33
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UninstallStskeeps: http://pastebin.com/9QEH5qyz18:33
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Stskeepsyou mean 4.7 :)18:42
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Stskeepsso yeah, the reason we haven't moved to 4.7 yet is fairly simple: it has needed effort/orchestration and fixing of package builds18:43
Stskeepsand i haven't had time to coordinate that18:43
* Bostik has flashbacks from egcs 2.95 era18:43
Stskeepsbef0rd: yeah, that was my first reaction..18:43
Stskeepser. Bostik18:45
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UninstallStskeeps: what's difficult with 4.7?19:10
StskeepsUninstall: well, typically with new gcc versions compiles start breaking as it's more strict19:11
Stskeepsso, it adds to the effort19:11
Stskeepsplus you have to validate that the whole stack still functions properly, no compiler bugs, etc19:11
Stskeepswhich means a lot of QA19:11
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UninstallStskeeps: I understand19:14
UninstallStskeeps: If you need some help you can count on me, kostola and drf__19:14
Bostikand do keep in mind that this validation needs to be done for all architectures, not just x86 :/19:14
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UninstallBostik: sure19:16
UninstallStskeeps: have you got any idea about the mips issue that I've linked before?19:19
StskeepsUninstall: no, show me whole build log?19:20
Stskeeps(if you did, sorry if i didn't notice)19:20
UninstallStskeeps: http://pastebin.com/9QEH5qyz19:21
Stskeepschroot or kvm builds?19:22
UninstallStskeeps: chroot19:23
UninstallI think19:23
Uninstallusual chroot/scratchbox I think19:24
Stskeepshappens if you trigger a rebuild? chroot builds may be due to other stuff building on same worker19:24
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Stskeepslike getting starved for resources by let's say qtwebkit19:24
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UninstallStskeeps: Impossible, that server has 380 Gb of ram19:24
Stskeepsqtwebkit can kill even that, but OK :P19:24
Stskeepsif possible, i would recommend kvm builds19:25
UninstallStskeeps: what's the difference?19:26
Stskeepsit's just more nicely encapsulated, always sure things are cleaned up nicely afterwards, etc19:27
Stskeepsmy general experience that builds running in kvm are saner as they can concentrate on one thing, building19:27
UninstallStskeeps: and then sb2 runs inside the virtual machine?19:28
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Stskeepsyeah19:28
UninstallStskeeps: http://pastebin.com/hg9UQwiQ <-- is this dmesg output relevant?19:28
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Stskeepscan be anything from many different builds19:29
Stskeepsdoes binutils work if you just osc rebuild?19:29
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UninstallStskeeps: I dind't do osc rebuild, I just let it running the scheduled build of the whole mipsel project19:31
Stskeepsk19:31
UninstallStskeeps: does it looks sane: http://pastebin.com/Du6QBWFx ?19:33
Stskeepslooks quite good19:33
UninstallStskeeps: have you got any advice about build fails?19:34
UninstallStskeeps: I mean can I let everything continue or should I stop and rebuild everything19:34
Uninstallto make sure to get something sane?19:34
Stskeepsjust let everything continue19:34
Uninstallso the output will be always the same at the end?19:35
Stskeepsit'll be consistent yes19:35
Uninstallthanks19:35
Stskeeps(not same thing, but it'll be OK)19:35
Uninstallok19:35
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UninstallStskeeps: let's talk about the kernel-headers19:37
Uninstallwhy do you say that they are safe with older kernels?19:37
StskeepsUninstall: they are in practice - we've run with them full production mobile systems on 2.6.3219:38
UninstallI tought that I was important to match kernel-headers with the oldest kernel I will use to make sure that unavailable syscalls or structs are used19:38
Stskeepsthere was a longer discussion about this at some point here as well, i can't recall the exact phrasing, but you do not have to worry19:38
Uninstalluhm19:38
Uninstallcool19:38
Stskeepswell, that was my belief too originally19:38
UninstallStskeeps: so what are cons about using older kernel-headers?19:39
Stskeepsusually a pain to add modern software19:39
UninstallStskeeps: I had an horrible experience with 2.6.32 due to a missing syscall on ARM that was being used by systemd19:40
Uninstallthat syscall was available on x86 but ARM was missing it19:40
Uninstallsot I thought that if we had proper kernel headers I would have avoided similar mistakes because it would have just failed at build time19:41
Stskeeps:nod: it usually doesn't catch things in the way you'd like them to19:41
Stskeepssome SW's include the syscall defines anyway by themselves19:42
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UninstallStskeeps: the syscall was exported by glibc I think19:43
Uninstallit is a new version of one of the old file syscall19:43
Uninstallwith flags support19:43
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UninstallStskeeps: the issue was with accept419:46
Uninstallaccept4 is not available on 2.6.3219:46
UninstallStskeeps: if you are running successfully on 2.6.32 you have done some magic for sure :)19:47
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Stskeepssure19:48
UninstallStskeeps: as you can understand I would like to avoid similar problems and I still prefer a build failure than some silent and unexpected runtime failure19:49
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UninstallStskeeps: anyway I would really like to underline that if you need manpower for gcc and eglibc updates19:56
Uninstallwe can help and we would like to help you19:56
Stskeepssure19:56
Stskeepsand understandable :) good QA is key19:56
* drf__ is lurking and agrees with all the above19:57
drf__Stskeeps: and I'd like to add our main reason why we are interested in 4.7 is c++11 vs c++xx, given the extensive use we are making of Qt5+C++1119:57
Stskeepspatches are always welcome - the common goal is anyway to use less resources on doing bigger things by doing them togethe19:57
Stskeepsr19:57
drf__++19:58
UninstallStskeeps: if you want we can plan a meeting, we are at the akademy for the next week but I would like to discuss how to upgrade to some new packages19:58
Stskeepsi'm on paternity leave right now so sometime after monday19:58
Uninstallsure19:58
UninstallStskeeps: I would go for something after the 22nd19:58
Uninstallby the way we are at the akademy if someone of yours is there we can discuss about our plans19:59
StskeepsUninstall: you should have a meeting with lbt...19:59
Stskeepslbt: ^19:59
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lbtyep - been a bit busy around the house20:00
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Uninstalllbt: some of us are at the akademy20:00
drf__Stskeeps: the funny thing is that I voted 5* his talk and I forgot he was there...20:00
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* drf__ bangs his head against the wall20:00
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Uninstalllbt: we would really love to discuss how we can use our man-power to help mer project20:01
lbtUninstall: I'm doing a talk on saturday morning20:01
lbtstaying until tuesday morning too20:01
Uninstallcool20:01
lbtUninstall: sounds good to me :)20:01
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drf__lbt: we'll sure catch up before that, but maybe we can schedule a meeting on Monday? looks like a good time to me20:02
Uninstalllbt: one of the topics will be how we can help to upgrade to more recent gcc, eglibc versions20:02
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lbtyes - it's a bit of a slog but shouldn't cause any major issues20:04
drf__lbt: it can also happen post-conference in front of beers, just saying :P20:04
lbthehe20:04
drf__anyway, we'll figure out over the weekend, I guess20:04
lbtyep - I don't know my schedule for monday yet20:05
lbtI'm planning to hang around with veskuh20:05
UninstallI think we'll wear Ispirata t-shirts ;)20:05
lbtI suspect I'll be wearing Mer and Jolla T-shirts :)20:06
lbtI should go for a half/half :)20:06
Uninstalllbt: our faces are here: http://ispirata.com/the-team/ so you will recognize us20:06
Uninstalljust to be cleare we are not blue like smurfs ;)20:07
lbtty - good reminder - long time since last december :)20:07
drf__definitely :P20:07
lbtyay - Release is done20:09
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lbtStskeeps: just a note - we're a bit tight on space for next pre-release20:10
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Stskeepslbt: ok20:10
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lbtalso was talking to OE about infra - they may be able to help us out with a server20:10
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Uninstallis anyone aware of any mer build on other architectures? I mean stuff like ppc20:12
Uninstall*builds20:12
lbtno - 'only' arm/mips/x86  afaik20:13
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Uninstallok20:14
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Stskeepsx86_64, too20:16
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UninstallStskeeps: it seems that mipsel  build got stuck again20:16
Uninstallchecking for msgmerge...20:16
UninstallStskeeps: are you aware of any known interference if the same host is building arm and mipsel at the same time?20:16
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lbtUninstall: no20:18
lbtUninstall: are you using a kvm or xen setup ?20:18
Uninstallas I've already told I'm running sb2 on chroot20:18
Uninstallthe whole system is running on a kvm virtual machine20:18
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lbtok - that's not a config I've run20:20
Uninstallanyway it got just stuck without any reason and now it works properly20:24
Uninstallit seems that mipsel is rather buggy20:24
lbtit's certainly got the least attention20:24
UninstallI think that mipsel codepaths are not so tested like arm, right?20:25
lbtwe have no hardware to run it on either20:25
lbtand iirc we have issues with gold20:25
lbtso qtwebkit won't build20:25
Uninstalllbt: issues with gold?20:25
lbtyeah - lemme see20:25
lbta while back we had issues enabling gold for mips - iirc there was a patch upstream that had some copyright assignment issues20:27
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lbthttp://review.merproject.org/#patch,sidebyside,953,5,cross-mipsel-binutils.spec20:30
lbt"MIPS compiler targets are not supported because ld.gold is not available."   http://developer.android.com/tools/sdk/ndk/index.html20:31
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lbthmm http://code.google.com/p/mclinker/20:33
lbtBostik: ^^20:33
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Bostikwow20:37
Bostiknow that's an interesting project20:37
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Uninstalllbt: Stskeeps any plan to update systemd?21:02
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phaeronUninstall: systemd is one of the things that requires very recent kernels, which as you said is no so good for embedded hardware :)21:15
Uninstallphaeron: are you aware of a changelog for minimum kernel version for systemd?21:16
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phaeronUninstall: check the systemd release notes , they usually mention it there21:17
phaeronor the systemd code21:17
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phaeronUninstall: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/README  search for kernel21:19
Uninstallphaeron: cool21:20
Uninstallphaeron: it seems that minimum kernel version is not changed from 187 to the lastest one21:21
phaeronat least for n9 there was some backporting done for the kernel to accommodate the newer systemd21:23
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Uninstallphaeron: n21:28
Uninstallphaeron: I think accept4 was missing21:28
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phaeronyou mean a kernel feature ?21:31
UninstallI mean a syscall21:33
Uninstallaccept4 is missing on 2.6.3221:33
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CosmoHillnight all21:53
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