Wednesday, 2013-06-12

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UninstallHello08:35
Stskeepshewwo08:35
UninstallI have a question: on the header of the project config I see that there is a "Do not edit... autogenerated"08:36
Uninstalldo you have any idea where is the template?08:36
Stskeepscheck out mer/project-core08:36
UninstallI mean MDS project config08:36
UninstallStskeeps: git repo?08:36
Stskeepsthat's what i mean :)08:36
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Uninstallcool08:37
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Punk_Joker_test09:18
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vgrade_phaeron: ping11:33
phaeronpong11:33
vgrade_hi11:33
phaeronhello11:33
vgrade_I'm interested in copyprj, and see osc patches at https://github.com/mer-tools/osc/commits/master11:34
vgrade_are there any related OBS patches?11:34
phaeronyeah that needs my patch to obs 2.311:35
phaeronnot yet ported to 2.411:35
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vgrade_could you link me to those11:36
phaeronhttps://github.com/Merproject/open-build-service/commits/mer-pending11:36
phaeronvgrade_: ^^11:36
vgrade_thanks11:37
phaeronwe haven't really capitalized on that feature yet. it was supposed to be used in mer's build trials11:37
phaeronbut imho with _service git based packaging it is much easier to just recreate the structure with a script11:38
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phaeronvgrade_: mostly this patch https://github.com/Merproject/open-build-service/commit/53fbdfb651a4296f040cdb73da4d63551fc8833611:39
vgrade_thanks11:40
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vgrade_phaeron:  we don't have git here11:43
phaeronI don't know where here is :) , but yeah if you depend on obs for "book keeping" then copyprj might be useful11:44
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bfederauHey. Does the debian:7.0 project on build.merproject.org provide ARM arch builds? If no is it possible to add this, say on a local mer obs instance?11:56
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phaeronbfederau: it currently doesn't provide arm targets. I am not sure I know how to setup those for debian :)12:02
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bfederauphaeron: So it is not possible resp. not that easy to use the cross-compiling way of Mer for ARM builds on the obs server?12:06
Stskeepsrather, for debian12:06
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bfederauOn the meego obs there were build targets for Harmattan. That was ARM- and deb-based too when i remeber correctly. Does those Harmattan ARM builds differs from those for standard Debian?12:22
Stskeepsyes, they were not cross compiled in practice12:24
Stskeepsno qemu arm,12:24
Stskeepsand since they take up massive amount of power/build time, we don't have it12:24
Stskeeps:P12:24
bfederauI see :)12:26
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bfederauAny plans to support Debian ARM cross-compiling on Mer obs in future?12:28
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Stskeepsbfederau: not really, it requires quite a lot of work from somebody's side12:40
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xavinuxHi everyone, would like yo know how can I help mer project13:03
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sledgesxavinux, you can choose to test touchable/usable/visible distribution, which is based on the Mer Project -- for example, a Nemo Mobile (on Nokia N9 if you have one). IRC channel - #nemomobile13:08
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sledgesspotting some bugs might lead to have them fixed in as low levels as Mer project itself - good way to help! :)13:09
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xavinuxgreat, heve some linux knowledge and I´m very interested in low level works!13:11
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sledgeswith this family here you will experience it all: high level(UI), middleware and low level :)13:11
sledgesall GNU/Linux :)13:12
xavinuxgreat read that Sailfish use Mer core13:12
sledgestrue, let me introduce the architecture briefly of the two:13:13
xavinuxok13:13
sledgesNemo Mobile:13:13
sledgeshigh-level user experience (UX) - nemo:ux13:13
sledgesmiddle-level - middle-ware - nemo:mw13:13
sledgeslow-level - core - mer project13:14
sledgesSailfish OS:13:14
sledgeshigh-level user experience (UX) - sailfish:ux13:14
sledgesmiddle-level - middle-ware - nemo:mw (yes, sailfish is re-using nemo mw)13:14
sledgeslow-level - core - mer project13:14
sledgesbtw: UX and UI (user interface) are merely synonyms13:14
xavinuxvery interesting13:15
sledgesSailfish looks awesome, but is available only for Intel platforms at the moment13:15
sledgesNemo Mobile looks still OK :) but already available for Nokia N900/N950/N9 and quite a number of other arm/x86 phones/devices13:16
xavinuxyes I´ve read that, I have a Nokia N9 at this moment13:16
xavinuxthe N950 never arrived here in Argentina....13:17
sledgesso having nemo on n9 (testing/contributing) is helping its middleware (reused by sailfish), and lowlevel - mer project , as per your original question :)13:17
sledgesI think N950 was a developer's device, you had to say what good you did to the N900/maemo/etc community, and then you get N950 -- the parent of N9 :)13:17
xavinuxaha ok13:18
Jope_yes, it was never for sale13:18
Jope_apart from those developers who sold theirs on ebay :-)13:18
sledges(facepalm)13:18
sledges:)13:18
xavinuxand where you sugest me to start with to get familar with the OS?13:18
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sledgessafest is to first run nemomobile on virtualbox (sailfish sdk offers the same)13:18
sledgeslater you can try out nemo on your n913:19
xavinuxI´m just running Nemo in a Virtualbox machine13:20
xavinuxbut don´t know how can I help from this point13:20
sledgesthat's a good start already :)13:20
sledgescould be helpful if you joined #nemomobile :)13:21
sledges90% of this channel people sit in both rooms, so I'm not kidnapping you or anything :D13:22
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xavinuxok13:24
xavinuxthey work will mer too?13:25
sledgesif you work with nemo, you work with mer, ingenuously13:25
xavinuxjoining....13:26
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rozhkovStskeeps: what package provides gold in mer?15:36
Stskeepsbinutils, ld.gold15:37
Stskeepsor add -fuse-ld=gold15:37
rozhkovgot it, thanks15:38
Bostikfinally without black magic and $PATH manipulation :)15:38
Stskeeps+115:38
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rubdosI was wondering: I don't like the fact that google glass would store everything in googles cloud (especially now NSA is spying on us), like Android does already. What about mer/nemo on glass would that be possible?17:45
rubdos(aka, I won't buy AR glasses until I've got FULL control of MY device... Anybody wanting to helping to port Mer and writing a GUI? ;D17:48
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ali1234rubdos: the gui isn't the part you need. if you want you can recompile android or whatever it uses without google service stuff18:10
ali1234the real backdoors are always going to be in the radio rom and you are not going to be able to replace that18:10
rubdosali1234, That 's part one; I'd love to not to run java...18:10
ali1234why?18:11
rubdosAnd yes, we need to find a way to open that load too18:11
rubdos'cause java is sloooow18:11
ali1234not really18:11
ali1234you will never open the radio roms up18:11
ali1234there is far too much platform security in place to prevent you even running an unsigned one, let alone one you compiled yourself18:11
rubdosI wont. Fact. But they should be, if we want to avoid the whole mess NSA is doing right now18:12
ali1234it's a completely different thing in fact18:12
rubdosAnd yes, we don't like boot locks :(18:12
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ali1234the radio roms have far more protection than typical applications core bootloader18:13
ali1234they run on a totally isolated CPU core for a reason18:13
rubdosI'm still waiting on completely opensource hardware and software phones... and goggles. BTW, google should call it goggles, not glass :O18:14
rubdosHow's that? What part is running somewhere else?18:14
ali1234the radio rom18:14
ali1234the drivers that communicate with the phone network, and with the microphone on the phone, are all run on a totally isolated core running a proprietary operating system18:15
rubdosWhich is the software part of the bluetooth and wifi stack?18:15
ali1234i don't know if glass has a built in phone? but i suppose it does, or will18:15
rubdoswhy's that? Why should they run on proprietary software?18:15
rubdosI suppose it will too... Don't think it has yet18:16
ali1234and yes often the wifi and bluetooth are also controlled by that stuff too, though not always18:16
rubdosOkay, let's limit the size of the ROM on those IC's :P18:16
ali1234there is no reason why they have to run a proprietary OS other than a) the manufacturer wants to maximum security possible, b) the network wants to completely certify every line of code in the rom18:16
ali1234you should read up about this stuff, it's really interesting18:17
rubdosMakes it more difficult for them... But you get my point, right? If the software would be open, we'd have much more fun.18:17
ali1234the radio rom isn't really a rom18:17
rubdosYes, I should. And I should be studying my chemistry exam too :D18:17
rubdosBut this is far more interesting ;)18:17
ali1234for example on old old omap850 the application core is armv5 (or 6 i forget) and the radio core is armv418:18
ali1234the application core loads a binary blob to a magic memory address and then the radio core starts up18:18
ali1234before that you can't do any radio ops at all, not even emergency calls will work18:19
ali1234you can't even do "AT" or talk to it at all18:19
ali1234the only interface into the armv4 is serial style18:19
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rubdosThat really is... worth investigating. Anyone tried yet to read the instructions out?18:19
ali1234you could in theory load a linux kernel in to it but you would never be able to reverse engineer the drivers require to make the radio work18:19
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ali1234basically that radio core exists only the prevent you from directly accessing the radio18:20
rubdosOr to have something to spy on the user?18:20
ali1234well, perhaps18:20
ali1234you can never know18:20
rubdosBecause this is what I call non-usefull "overhead"18:20
ali1234but just running andaroid or some other linux isn't going to make any difference18:20
ali1234because if there is a backdoor it is absolutely 100% going to be hidden in the proprietary locked down radio core where you can't see it at all18:21
rubdosIt would make a difference if we had permission to load our own stuff... and have an open interface to all those things18:21
rubdosyes indeed...18:21
ali1234but we absolutely don't18:21
ali1234omap850 is really old any way18:22
ali1234new chips are using a proprietary instruction set on the private core18:22
ali1234for example the chip inside the raspberry pi18:22
rubdosLets see, new instruction in the set "ARMv4NSA": SPY #memory address18:22
rubdossends a byte to NSA18:22
ali1234there the private core is not to protect radio/network but in order to implement codec licensing18:23
rubdosYes, I know they have a NDA, which made me very... can't get to the word18:23
ali1234they call it a GPU but it runs a full OS18:23
rubdossuspiciously18:23
ali1234that OS does things like verify the license key you put in is real and lock it to the chip18:23
rubdosYes, indeed... These things can scare the sh** out of me18:24
ali1234it also acts as a mediator between the core you are allowed to run things on, and the core which is physically connected to the actual hardware18:24
ali1234linux on raspberry pi is effectively trapped in a hardware virtualization18:24
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ali1234but anyway that is enough ranting from me18:25
rubdosMind if i dump this text to a .txt and let a friend of mine read this too?18:25
ali1234of course not. this channel is publicly logged anyway i think18:25
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rubdosAnd I can assure you, you can't bore me with this "ranting" :)18:25
ali1234yeah but it's offtopic18:26
rubdosYes, indeed. Now it is18:26
rubdosIf you want, we can discuss this somewhere else18:26
Stskeepsbut anyway: if you can boot your own kernel; build an flashable android image for it, yes, you can probably run mer with libhybris on it18:26
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Stskeepsand flash your own root file system18:27
ali1234yes, they already ran ubuntu on it that way18:28
Stskeepswell that was more of a chroot18:28
ali1234at the developer show18:28
Stskeepsfrom what i recall18:28
ali1234well that's how ubuntu phone still works currently, though the big switch should happen this month18:28
rubdosI already read someone rooting the device. If he could install a ssh server on it, you could do anything you want, theoretically? Except for the rom thingy, ofc18:29
Stskeepsnah, you need more, ability to flash and boot own kernel18:30
rubdosMmm.. Yes, I was thinking of conventional bios driven systems :/ I'm not really into embedded18:30
rubdosYou basically need more knowledge from that point :P18:31
Stskeepsembedded is hard18:31
Stskeeps:P18:31
rubdosI'd love to learn more about it. Well, I will next year. Civil engineering/computer science :P18:33
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Stskeepsdon't worry, you won't learn anything useful in CS18:35
Stskeeps:P18:35
ali1234haha18:35
rubdosDamned :)18:36
rubdosWhy not ? :O18:36
rubdosWhat course would you take in my place? :P18:37
ali1234if i could do university again i would do pure mathematics i think18:37
rubdoscool :)18:37
rubdosWhat did you do now?18:38
ali1234CS18:38
ali1234i might also do whatever course is all about signal processing which is mostly maths18:38
rubdos(I'm starting to think I can pull every conversation to be offtopic...)18:39
rubdosAnd yes, that's probably why I'm taking CS via the engineering way...18:40
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CosmoHillnight night22:10
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