Saturday, 2013-03-02

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CosmoHillnight night01:25
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Stskeepsswitching from gz binary payload compression in RPM to xz-6: 5.5 -> 3.2 mb in binutils rpm07:16
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Stskeepsthat extends to a lot of mb over 3g07:19
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Stskeepslbt: i think possibly that phost4 has some kind of RNG issue11:53
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Stskeepslbt: just had a kvm build with python fail to generate 1000 random uuids :)11:57
Stskeepsonly 99911:57
dm8tbrthen you should run something to seed the RNG maybe?11:58
* Stskeeps tries a local build12:03
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Stskeepsrng-tools for obs workers?12:05
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Stskeepshello sardini12:05
lbtseen issues with coders using /dev/random instead of /dev/urandom12:05
Stskeepsyeah, but this should use urandom or uuid_generate* routines12:05
dm8tbrthat would be a rookie mistake12:05
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lbtit can't run out of urandom12:06
lbtby definition12:06
dm8tbrjust the randomness might suck12:06
lbtStskeeps: worth checking that?12:07
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Stskeepsweird, and now it worked fine on second rebuild12:11
lbtsounds like a random error....12:11
* lbt runs12:11
* dm8tbr puts on shades12:12
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Stskeepsstarted a rebuild with the new changes to improve rebuilds and rpm filesize: 13:2912:31
Stskeeps(just a note for logs)12:32
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lbthmm - mer bugzilla has been modified16:28
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* lbt fixes it16:37
rcgis mp3 support in gst-plugins-ugly?16:45
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rcghmm, seems so16:46
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rcgwe don't have gst-plugins-ugly in mer due to re-distribution issues?16:46
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kulveomx:  nv_omx_mp3dec: OpenMAX IL MP3 audio decoder16:51
kulvealthough I guess you mean some othet platform ;)16:51
rcgcurrently talking about nemo on n916:52
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rcgbut gst-inspect is a good idea :)16:53
rcgyep, nothing mp3 related there except typedefs16:54
rcg*err typefindfunctions16:54
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rcghow much of an issue is using gst-plugins-ugly?16:55
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kulvercg: there's gst-plugins-ugly-free and many depends on it. It even has it's own .pc file. And I guess that conflicts with gst-plugins-ugly. So it's a bit difficult situation17:07
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rcgkulve, i see17:22
rcgwell, seems like the easiest solution to get my music play in nemo would be to recode in ogg...17:23
* CosmoHill gives rcg a cookie17:23
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rcgweee, cookie ftw :)17:23
CosmoHillinstead of saying "thanks for your hard work and / or helping people" I just hand out cookies17:24
rcg.   ,   `   .   '17:25
rcghehe, i see :)17:25
CosmoHillare those dots you doing a forward flip?17:25
rcgnope, those are supposed to be cookie crumbs :)17:26
CosmoHilloh i see17:27
Stskeepsnow that's a nice rebuild chain:
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rcgStskeeps, what did you do?17:31
Stskeeps1) enabled deterministic .a archive creation 2) new deterministic method of sorting debug symbols when making packages 3) made gcc, glibc, perl not rebuild unnecessarily17:34
Stskeepsreducing load needed to build mer17:34
Stskeepson top of that, i added xz level 6 compression to binary payload in RPM, it dropped rpm size of binutils from 5.5 to 3.217:35
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rcgyay, sounds like a lot of fun :)17:36
CosmoHillStskeeps: nice17:36
Stskeepswaiting for full distro results17:36
Stskeeps5.5 to 3.2 is something that can be felt when updating over 3g17:36
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rcgindeed :)17:37
rcgsledges, remember the slowness of marble?17:37
rcgsledges, try using the routing view17:37
rcgit is much faster17:38
rcgthan the virtual globe view, i.e.17:38
Stskeepsdoes it use opengl?17:39
rcgit should17:39
rcgbut i think the virtual globe renders to something like a pixmap first and then draws that one17:39
rcgi am not quite sure, didn't look into that one to thoroughly17:40
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kulvehumm, doesn't respond?17:44
kulve"504 Gateway Time-out"17:44
Stskeepsworks for me17:45
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kulvenow it works here as well17:55
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Stskeepswow, that really cut off a lot18:33
Stskeeps500mb off the entire mer repo18:33
Stskeepsfrom 3.0g to 2.518:33
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[ol]Stskeeps: What did you change to implement build improvements you've mentioned earlier today?18:53
Stskeeps[ol]: binutils,18:53
Stskeepsand a bit in obs/perl18:53
Stskeepserr.. perl/rpm18:54
Stskeepstook in some good patches from opensuse18:54
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[ol]Stskeeps: Have you ever heard of any attempts to make OBS working on any other distro than OpenSuse?19:02
Stskeepsworker yes, obs itself no19:03
Stskeepsmostly because i assume the people who did try, ended up in a mental institution19:03
[ol]Why is OBS made so unportable? Bad programming practices? Intentional vendor lock-in?19:04
Stskeepsi don't think it's so unportable but it's one way to ensure that your solution will work on this setup19:05
Stskeepsand that you'd (as a developer) have to support19:05
Stskeepsso they don't build it for anything else than opensuse19:06
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Stskeepsif you showed up with a obs gentoo setup, they'd probably ignore any bugs you had as they don't reproduce locally :)19:06
[ol]So, this sounds like intentional vendor lock-in.19:07
Stskeepsish.. i can somewhat understand it from point of view from my own psat19:08
Stskeepsi was coding unrealircd in the past and i hated people packaging it and users using the built package, as i could never be sure on how exactly they had modified it19:08
[ol]I can imagine what would happen if, for example, systemd was so deeply tied to Fedora that no other distro would be able to use it.19:09
Stskeepsi think it's mainly that the main developers develop it assuming the'y're on opensuse19:10
Stskeepsas such it may be more generic19:10
Stskeepsand as a IT person, i can appreciate 'can easily set up' by just putting a opensuse vm to it19:10
Stskeepsand it just working at that point19:11
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Stskeepsnothing particularly evil about that :)19:11
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[ol]I don't believe that assuming one particular distro makes it easier to develop it provided that you use good programming practices.19:13
Stskeepsprobably, but in practice i don't want to have to learn about the depths of the obs code, i just want to use it :)19:13
Stskeepsand the easiest way is to just make a opensuse vm for it19:13
Stskeepsfwiw, i do want to make mer more independent of obs in future, but for what we need it to do, it makes a nice solution19:14
Stskeepsand it scales quite well19:14
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Stskeepsi'd much rather use my time on something else than setting up obs on let's say, fedora or debian and dealing with bugs exhibited from that, when i have a nicely QA'ed setup if i use opensuse :)19:16
Stskeepsright, time to watch a movie19:16
[ol]For me it's pure evil. I'd like to have OBS server, but I don't want to have a virtual machine dedicated for it. First, it's inefficient. I have a server, but it has neither vmx nor svm support, so I can't use kvm with it. Second, I don't want to learn system administration of another distro. It doesn't matter whether it's virtual or real machine, it still needs to be fully updated and taken care of.19:17
Stskeepsand i can respect that viewpoint19:17
[ol]And there is another worry for me. Can I trust a system which was written using so sloppy coding practices? If I run it on my server, how likely is possibility that I find my server 0wn3d soon after that?19:19
Stskeepsstill, if you calculate the time spent on setup and all that, it all bends down to cost - i can pay 50 eur a month and get a very capable machine for VMs with a terabyte of traffic, and it just works, so my own personal calculation of how much money spent and effort in hours (multiplied by my consultancy rate) just bends down to that it's easier and better use of my time to just set up a opensure vm and run things there :)19:20
[ol]Stskeeps: You were patching OBS. What's your overall impression about its code quality?19:20
Stskeepsfairly good, but a lot of the backend is perl ;)19:20
Stskeepsie, when it runs it keeps on running19:20
Stskeepsand i don't have better solutions for what it does19:20
Stskeepswould like to move to a different system eventually, but it does what i need it to19:21
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Stskeepshandles a lot of very rough tasks for me with ease19:21
Stskeepsanyway, you're welcome to try to run it on your favourite distro19:21
Stskeepsyou'll still need KVM for secure builds anyway19:22
[ol]And end up in mental hospital afterwards? :-)19:22
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Stskeepsi'd much prefer that you spent time on saner things, for sure, but if you believe so much in it, i'm not one to stop you :)19:23
[ol]Iheard that OBS can use lxc for build. For my purposes it would be sufficient.19:23
[ol]Or even chroot, like Fedora's mock does.19:26
Stskeepsanyway, it is a complex piece of software, backend may be perl - but front end api is ruby on rails19:26
[ol]And that's another can of worms...19:27
Stskeepsso already there it gets a nightmare to run anywhere else ;)19:27
Stskeepsso you can appreciate the effort to at least keeping it running sanely on one target19:27
[ol]Actually, Rails designed to be very portable.19:27
Stskeepsyeah, but gems? :P19:27
[ol]Gems also should be portable.19:28
Stskeepsbut yeah - i'd like to move to a 'make world' like thing, and a offline scheduler of build creation19:28
[ol]At least, all gems necessary to run Rails are present in Fedora pcakages.19:28
Stskeepsso that's a worthwhile projet to work on, if you really dislike the thought of obs :)19:29
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Stskeepsin due time you'd end up with something a bit like obs though19:30
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[ol]Or like koji...19:30
Stskeepsyep - and there's things about obs that just make it nice, as it's not tied to building just one distro19:31
Stskeepsbut many19:31
Stskeepsand multiple users and projects19:31
[ol]Nothing is perfect...19:32
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[ol]Just a thought experiment, imagine that OBS was built on top of Hurd (which actually makes much sense).19:34
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[ol]For me OpenSuse is just as exotic as Hurd, but at least, Hurd has interesting features making virtualised build environments easy to construct on demand.19:37
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