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| CosmoHill | night night | 01:25 |
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| situ | Morning | 04:58 |
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| Stskeeps | morn | 06:47 |
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| Stskeeps | switching from gz binary payload compression in RPM to xz-6: 5.5 -> 3.2 mb in binutils rpm | 07:16 |
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| Stskeeps | that extends to a lot of mb over 3g | 07:19 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: i think possibly that phost4 has some kind of RNG issue | 11:53 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: just had a kvm build with python fail to generate 1000 random uuids :) | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | only 999 | 11:57 |
| dm8tbr | then you should run something to seed the RNG maybe? | 11:58 |
| * Stskeeps tries a local build | 12:03 | |
| lbt | interesting | 12:04 |
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| Stskeeps | rng-tools for obs workers? | 12:05 |
| sardini | hello | 12:05 |
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| Stskeeps | hello sardini | 12:05 |
| lbt | seen issues with coders using /dev/random instead of /dev/urandom | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but this should use urandom or uuid_generate* routines | 12:05 |
| dm8tbr | that would be a rookie mistake | 12:05 |
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| lbt | it can't run out of urandom | 12:06 |
| lbt | by definition | 12:06 |
| dm8tbr | just the randomness might suck | 12:06 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: worth checking that? | 12:07 |
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| Stskeeps | weird, and now it worked fine on second rebuild | 12:11 |
| lbt | sounds like a random error.... | 12:11 |
| * lbt runs | 12:11 | |
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| dm8tbr | yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah | 12:12 |
| faenil | morning | 12:15 |
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| Stskeeps | started a rebuild with the new changes to improve rebuilds and rpm filesize: 13:29 | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | (just a note for logs) | 12:32 |
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| lbt | hmm - mer bugzilla has been modified | 16:28 |
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| * lbt fixes it | 16:37 | |
| rcg | is mp3 support in gst-plugins-ugly? | 16:45 |
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| rcg | hmm, seems so | 16:46 |
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| rcg | we don't have gst-plugins-ugly in mer due to re-distribution issues? | 16:46 |
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| kulve | omx: nv_omx_mp3dec: OpenMAX IL MP3 audio decoder | 16:51 |
| kulve | although I guess you mean some othet platform ;) | 16:51 |
| rcg | :) | 16:52 |
| rcg | indeed | 16:52 |
| rcg | currently talking about nemo on n9 | 16:52 |
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| rcg | but gst-inspect is a good idea :) | 16:53 |
| rcg | yep, nothing mp3 related there except typedefs | 16:54 |
| rcg | *err typefindfunctions | 16:54 |
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| rcg | how much of an issue is using gst-plugins-ugly? | 16:55 |
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| kulve | rcg: there's gst-plugins-ugly-free and many depends on it. It even has it's own .pc file. And I guess that conflicts with gst-plugins-ugly. So it's a bit difficult situation | 17:07 |
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| rcg | kulve, i see | 17:22 |
| rcg | well, seems like the easiest solution to get my music play in nemo would be to recode in ogg... | 17:23 |
| * CosmoHill gives rcg a cookie | 17:23 | |
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| rcg | weee, cookie ftw :) | 17:23 |
| CosmoHill | instead of saying "thanks for your hard work and / or helping people" I just hand out cookies | 17:24 |
| rcg | . , ` . ' | 17:25 |
| rcg | hehe, i see :) | 17:25 |
| CosmoHill | are those dots you doing a forward flip? | 17:25 |
| rcg | nope, those are supposed to be cookie crumbs :) | 17:26 |
| CosmoHill | oh i see | 17:27 |
| Stskeeps | now that's a nice rebuild chain: http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/lookmomnoloops.txt | 17:29 |
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| rcg | Stskeeps, what did you do? | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | 1) enabled deterministic .a archive creation 2) new deterministic method of sorting debug symbols when making packages 3) made gcc, glibc, perl not rebuild unnecessarily | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | reducing load needed to build mer | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | on top of that, i added xz level 6 compression to binary payload in RPM, it dropped rpm size of binutils from 5.5 to 3.2 | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | mb | 17:35 |
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| rcg | yay, sounds like a lot of fun :) | 17:36 |
| CosmoHill | Stskeeps: nice | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | waiting for full distro results | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | 5.5 to 3.2 is something that can be felt when updating over 3g | 17:36 |
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| rcg | indeed :) | 17:37 |
| rcg | sledges, remember the slowness of marble? | 17:37 |
| rcg | sledges, try using the routing view | 17:37 |
| rcg | it is much faster | 17:38 |
| rcg | than the virtual globe view, i.e. | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | does it use opengl? | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:39 |
| rcg | it should | 17:39 |
| rcg | but i think the virtual globe renders to something like a pixmap first and then draws that one | 17:39 |
| rcg | i am not quite sure, didn't look into that one to thoroughly | 17:40 |
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| kulve | humm, https://build.merproject.org/ doesn't respond? | 17:44 |
| kulve | "504 Gateway Time-out" | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | works for me | 17:45 |
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| kulve | now it works here as well | 17:55 |
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| rcg | bbl | 18:12 |
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| Stskeeps | wow, that really cut off a lot | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | 500mb off the entire mer repo | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | from 3.0g to 2.5 | 18:33 |
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| [ol] | Stskeeps: What did you change to implement build improvements you've mentioned earlier today? | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: binutils, | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | [1;2A | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | and a bit in obs/perl | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | err.. perl/rpm | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | took in some good patches from opensuse | 18:54 |
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| [ol] | Stskeeps: Have you ever heard of any attempts to make OBS working on any other distro than OpenSuse? | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | worker yes, obs itself no | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | mostly because i assume the people who did try, ended up in a mental institution | 19:03 |
| [ol] | Why is OBS made so unportable? Bad programming practices? Intentional vendor lock-in? | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | i don't think it's so unportable but it's one way to ensure that your solution will work on this setup | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | and that you'd (as a developer) have to support | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | so they don't build it for anything else than opensuse | 19:06 |
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| Stskeeps | if you showed up with a obs gentoo setup, they'd probably ignore any bugs you had as they don't reproduce locally :) | 19:06 |
| [ol] | So, this sounds like intentional vendor lock-in. | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | ish.. i can somewhat understand it from point of view from my own psat | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | past | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | i was coding unrealircd in the past and i hated people packaging it and users using the built package, as i could never be sure on how exactly they had modified it | 19:08 |
| [ol] | I can imagine what would happen if, for example, systemd was so deeply tied to Fedora that no other distro would be able to use it. | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | i think it's mainly that the main developers develop it assuming the'y're on opensuse | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | as such it may be more generic | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | and as a IT person, i can appreciate 'can easily set up' by just putting a opensuse vm to it | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | and it just working at that point | 19:11 |
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| Stskeeps | nothing particularly evil about that :) | 19:11 |
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| [ol] | I don't believe that assuming one particular distro makes it easier to develop it provided that you use good programming practices. | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | probably, but in practice i don't want to have to learn about the depths of the obs code, i just want to use it :) | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | and the easiest way is to just make a opensuse vm for it | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | fwiw, i do want to make mer more independent of obs in future, but for what we need it to do, it makes a nice solution | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | and it scales quite well | 19:14 |
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| Stskeeps | i'd much rather use my time on something else than setting up obs on let's say, fedora or debian and dealing with bugs exhibited from that, when i have a nicely QA'ed setup if i use opensuse :) | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | right, time to watch a movie | 19:16 |
| [ol] | For me it's pure evil. I'd like to have OBS server, but I don't want to have a virtual machine dedicated for it. First, it's inefficient. I have a server, but it has neither vmx nor svm support, so I can't use kvm with it. Second, I don't want to learn system administration of another distro. It doesn't matter whether it's virtual or real machine, it still needs to be fully updated and taken care of. | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | and i can respect that viewpoint | 19:17 |
| [ol] | And there is another worry for me. Can I trust a system which was written using so sloppy coding practices? If I run it on my server, how likely is possibility that I find my server 0wn3d soon after that? | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | still, if you calculate the time spent on setup and all that, it all bends down to cost - i can pay 50 eur a month and get a very capable machine for VMs with a terabyte of traffic, and it just works, so my own personal calculation of how much money spent and effort in hours (multiplied by my consultancy rate) just bends down to that it's easier and better use of my time to just set up a opensure vm and run things there :) | 19:20 |
| [ol] | Stskeeps: You were patching OBS. What's your overall impression about its code quality? | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | fairly good, but a lot of the backend is perl ;) | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | ie, when it runs it keeps on running | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | and i don't have better solutions for what it does | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | would like to move to a different system eventually, but it does what i need it to | 19:21 |
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| Stskeeps | handles a lot of very rough tasks for me with ease | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | anyway, you're welcome to try to run it on your favourite distro | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | you'll still need KVM for secure builds anyway | 19:22 |
| [ol] | And end up in mental hospital afterwards? :-) | 19:22 |
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| Stskeeps | i'd much prefer that you spent time on saner things, for sure, but if you believe so much in it, i'm not one to stop you :) | 19:23 |
| [ol] | Iheard that OBS can use lxc for build. For my purposes it would be sufficient. | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | possibly | 19:25 |
| [ol] | Or even chroot, like Fedora's mock does. | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | anyway, it is a complex piece of software, backend may be perl - but front end api is ruby on rails | 19:26 |
| [ol] | And that's another can of worms... | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | so already there it gets a nightmare to run anywhere else ;) | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | so you can appreciate the effort to at least keeping it running sanely on one target | 19:27 |
| [ol] | Actually, Rails designed to be very portable. | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but gems? :P | 19:27 |
| [ol] | Gems also should be portable. | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah - i'd like to move to a 'make world' like thing, and a offline scheduler of build creation | 19:28 |
| [ol] | At least, all gems necessary to run Rails are present in Fedora pcakages. | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | so that's a worthwhile projet to work on, if you really dislike the thought of obs :) | 19:29 |
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| Stskeeps | in due time you'd end up with something a bit like obs though | 19:30 |
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| [ol] | Or like koji... | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | yep - and there's things about obs that just make it nice, as it's not tied to building just one distro | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | but many | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | and multiple users and projects | 19:31 |
| [ol] | Nothing is perfect... | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | yep | 19:32 |
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| [ol] | Just a thought experiment, imagine that OBS was built on top of Hurd (which actually makes much sense). | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | right | 19:35 |
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| [ol] | For me OpenSuse is just as exotic as Hurd, but at least, Hurd has interesting features making virtualised build environments easy to construct on demand. | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 19:38 |
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